Chaosforge Forum

Other Roguelikes => AliensRL => Topic started by: Daqin on November 26, 2007, 05:55

Title: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Daqin on November 26, 2007, 05:55
Hello everyone.
I'd like to introduce myself because I'd like to become kinda active here and give my support in the ways I can.
I fell in love with roguelikes instantly when I first played and I was with the roguelikes for many years. I paused for some time and after checking new things AlienRL got my affection imediately. 5 star type in my book. I was sorta crazy with games since I was less than 10. Especialy with creating games. Many kinds, from board and rpg to writing games on on older computer machines . Unfortunately with PC I was too busy with playing (time of old PC short before Pentium) and the drawback is I didn't practice any programing language and can't write anything (mostly I was making lots of scenarios, mods, alterations etc. to already made games). However I'd like to give my support if it can be useful in any way.
Here, my few short suggestions about AlienRL (I have much more but don't have time now to get all out of my mind now because I am traveling):

First thing is shoting and damage mechanism. It seems that distance and skill affects accuracy of the shot. That's naturally obvious, however the way it affects hits is kinda odd. For example, if I shot burst of ammo at target some distance away some shots will miss but more often almost all the shots will barely hit or, say, scratch the target. If we look at this in realistic way then every bullet has to hit close to the outline of the target not too far away to inside (and get deep into the body) and not outside (because it will miss),so to scratch the target with every bullet from a burst is kinda something very difficult to do and it would be masterful shot or maybe ..a miracle. If we think what would happen if you lack of skill and shot burst at direction of some target we could imagine that some would miss, some would hit more or less in the middle, some could scratch and even some could criticaly hit. So, what I think, alternative to current system would be that the more skill and closer the target the more control you have (which means good hits). Less skill you have or more distance means less control (which gives RANDOM results). More chance for miss or random hits could be determined by how much actual area of target is likely to be hit (there is more solid body to be accidentaly hit than elusive outline that could result in scratch or barely hit) and the more distant the target -the less actual area to be hit at all..
 
Second thing that comes to my mind atm is game goal (propably temporary anyway). To this I also come with common sense point of view. Lets say If I was that marine from crashed ship.. then, honestly, I would screw the queen and focus on finding way to escape. Queen could be secondary goal if I felt she must pay (but that could be done from orbit anyway) or when if she stands in my way. So, I'd also change word MISSIONS to QUESTS (because you don't really have any mission except to see what distress call is all about), and if you plan to do something and you are looking for solution then you are actually questing.

Maybe it would be more challenging and atmosperic if there was option to start the game in relistic or movie mode or something, where weapons and aliens do 5 times (or so) more damage (which propably means that if hunter gets to you then you are gone.. just like in th movie).

Generaly pistols are much less accurate than rifles (except when burst shot, when the rifle kicks back, in such case avery following shot after the first one is less accurate progresively).

Maybe armors could lose durability and be finaly broken and useless (this way there would be use for other copies of armor you are wearing)

I have LOTS of suggestion about graphics (actually -color play) but right now I will just mention one or two.
What about if tiles on the edge of the sight area were almost black (almost invisible). Those closer to character would gradually be brighter. Things and aliens would change darkness also, which could result in atmospheric appearance, just as if aliens just came out of the shadows. However, this would mean that LOS distance is actually light intensity. With this thing, there also could be areas lightened up along corridor walls to represent lights on the walls (that could also increase your loss), or maybe light up even more immediate area around the character to represent armor's, helmet's or weapon light. Or even in such case light up only half of the area in direction that was your last move to represent front of the character and the light's aim (which brings another idea- for example with SHIFT and movement keys you could rotate your sight direction and eg. look back without moving)
For present moment some easier stuff: light up character when firing to simulate flash of weapon fire. In more complex idea shoting could light up for a moment whole area and maybe increase for a blink of eye LOS to allow see unseen.. (go into to dark room and light it up with your gun fire..)
Atributes:
Perception -it could affect how far away from you hunters appear. Also maybe increase LOS ( together with color idea it would make shading out more gradual)

Technical -I think, technical doesn't really affect your familiarity with a weapon and decrase reloading time (but I guess it is also temporary), instead weapon skill could do that.  However, no other alternative atm from my side that could be more useful in present state of AlienRL.

weapon skills- could also affect your aiming time (faster shots). That brings another idea: when aiming, instead hiting F again to fire a weapon, you could hit wait key and ,without going out from aiming mode, skip one turn to hit F and fire in the following for increased accuracy (aimed shot)
Title: continuation
Post by: Daqin on November 26, 2007, 06:04
Fitness -maybe also add very slight increase in HP, and very little chance to dodge attack.

Sounds: I believe sound is even more influencing than a graphics for creating 'atmosphere'. The advice from my side is to add as much sounds as it makes sense. For the moment there could be so utility sound for picking, droping, etc. items instead of reload. I like the mods, music! (I was making mods too :). Maybe add sound for opening and closing automatic doors, elevator, add claw reaping through armor and flesh sound to current alien attack. I also wonder how would footstep sound work (have you seen Hired Guns?). Maybe footstep (very short sound) every move would flood ears, so do it every second or so. Maybe it is worth trying. Maybe add heavy breathing or heart fast beating when character is low on health.

Items.
-Movement detector. I am just thinking how would it change the game. It could change screen and show things when used, or show marks on the main screen where alien MOVED. Anyway, the sound of movement detector would add to atmosphere, I believe. From my point of view, the good way to do it is to make it to be working on the main screen. It would show 'blips' around character (for aliens in range that moved) every few turns. The 'blip' would flash up and fade out just like on the detector screen, so you would have to actually remember where it was (technical problem with animation delaying play could be solved by making it interuptable at any moment by keyboard input)

flares- to get LOS to some areas.

Other:

Maybe make these larva things that stick on face. They could die from just 1 hit of any weapon, however if they get to you and your character don't evade something terrible could happen. Not sure what could that be.  Maybe you lose consciousness and any alien nearby will got you, if not then you wake up and maybe hatch later.. (and change game goals) ?

quests- maybe repair ship ? Get parts from different towers. Disable autodefense systems and fly away. Or get to colony ship and activate it. Maybe call for help and find food and secure area you could wait for it. And
when help arrives you would see fightiong marines here and there..
Maybe make some rooms that are sealed of from aliens and locked. Like storage rooms with stuff. Technical skill could get in to unlock these.

Computer terminals- with enough of technical skill you could activate cameras in rooms on the level and look if it is worth going there (safe way to find your pulse rifle or some ammo), unlocking or locking unlocked doors to cut off aliens.

Alien entering areas- some spots that aliens come from (spawn) which could be secured, destroyed.

Acid burned holes- you could jump to lower level through these (with health loss) in hard situations. That also brings thing to mind that you could take damage from acid when firing at aliens in melee range.

OK. Thats it for now. I like to know what you think of some (propably many are not new anyway).

Thanks, thats my few cents to keep it up.

P.S. Pozdrowienia, milo widziec rodakow w akcji..
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on November 26, 2007, 18:50
/me was hit with a wall of text for full damage!

First of all thanks for the kind words about AliensRL, I'm sure to  continue working on it :). All support and comments are welcome!

About the damage -- the word "scratch" is just a way to convey the information that the shot wasn't a dead-eye. Compared to many other games AliensRL has a very realistic damage/shot mechanic, and works similarily to what you described. But it's true, that there is no chance to do a critical shot from a distance with low skill. Why does it work like that? A question of balance. The game is much more tactical and less random that way.

There will be several missions planned and ways to escape implemented. The main point will be that leaving the tower is simply suicide, because there's no food and no other life on the planet. So the only way to escape will be either by activating the comm array distress signal at the comm-center at the top of the civilian tower, or running away using a shuttle from the hangar (top of the military tower). All other missions will be bonus (blowing up the complex, or killing the queen).

As for the word "missions" -- I used it mainly because it sounds more Sci-Fi then quests :P. Also "quests" sounds very uplifted, the word "tasks" would be much more suited than quests. I'd prefer to stick to "missions" however.

Realistic mode? *giggles* You mean "SUICIDE" mode :P

Armors don't have durability because there is no item system in the game yet, so the game can't tell wether an armor on the floor is broken or not.

All your graphics suggestions assume more than 16 colors, what in the current situation is not planned.

Technical's bonus is temporary -- it's a placeholder until I implement the technical tasks.

I like the aimed shot idea!

As for the sounds -- I do not make sounds myself -- they're all free stuff found on the web -- so if you find anything good, then please post a link here or send it to me :) (GenTechJ found all the current sounds except for the abta.mod and the ATT voice).

Movement detector is planned. However it's a big PITA implementation and design-wise :P. For example the "every few turns" thing is bad, because it would encourage lighthouse movement -- blip, one step, wait, blip...

Facehuggers *are* planned as well as computer terminals ;]

Thanks for all the great ideas, i wzajemne pozdrowienia xP.
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Daqin on November 27, 2007, 22:28
About the damage -- the word "scratch" is just a way to convey the information that the shot wasn't a dead-eye. Compared to many other games AliensRL has a very realistic damage/shot mechanic, and works similarily to what you described. But it's true, that there is no chance to do a critical shot from a distance with low skill. Why does it work like that? A question of balance. The game is much more tactical and less random that way.

Well, may be. But somehow it appears different. I mean there is no really difference if I shot at something from 1 meter away or from the other side of the room if it gets hit, it gets hit. But it seems aliens take much less damage if they are hit from afar. Doesn't make sense. From close range you could hit it more likely in some vital areas for crits or good damage, however average damage shouldn't be affected by range. Maybe make more misses instead (by the way, maybe more misses' animations that go through tile with alien, past it).
:) And random things are nice (can surprise) and considering and taking into account random factors is also strategy and tactics.. ;)

Quote
As for the word "missions" -- I used it mainly because it sounds more Sci-Fi then quests :P. Also "quests" sounds very uplifted, the word "tasks" would be much more suited than quests. I'd prefer to stick to "missions" however.

Yeah, missions sound more SF, and maybe quests are missunderstood because of all RP. My point was that missions are some tasks you voluntary take. Tasks are something you have to do or else... Quests are something you seek or search for.

Quote
All your graphics suggestions assume more than 16 colors, what in the current situation is not planned

Ah, crap. Didn't think of that. I thought in year 2007 roguelikes advance into 256 or more. That could be good anyway. Maybe I'll show what I have in mind and make some pictures with screens of AlienRL with altered graphics, if I have time. You really can make tricks with colors. Maybe consider giving it more color.

Quote
Realistic mode? *giggles* You mean "SUICIDE" mode :P

Exactly. It could be interesting.

Quote
Movement detector is planned. However it's a big PITA implementation and design-wise :P. For example the "every few turns" thing is bad, because it would encourage lighthouse movement -- blip, one step, wait, blip...

What's wrong if someone do this kind of movement anyway ? It doesn't make sense to wait for one ping after you just got one or wait for ping every two or few steps because aliens could change places anyway. However I wonder what idea you have in mind.

Quote
/me was hit with a wall of text for full damage!

Well, walls don't attack.. ;)

Thanks for comments.

P.S. I wonder what others think.

Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on November 27, 2007, 22:42
Well, may be. But somehow it appears different. I mean there is no really difference if I shot at something from 1 meter away or from the other side of the room if it gets hit, it gets hit. But it seems aliens take much less damage if they are hit from afar. Doesn't make sense. From close range you could hit it more likely in some vital areas for crits or good damage, however average damage shouldn't be affected by range. Maybe make more misses instead (by the way, maybe more misses' animations that go through tile with alien, past it).
:) And random things are nice (can surprise) and considering and taking into account random factors is also strategy and tactics.. ;)
Well this is a thing that makes combat predictible, and surprisingly predictible combat is a good thing. At least in this game :).

Ah, crap. Didn't think of that. I thought in year 2007 roguelikes advance into 256 or more. That could be good anyway. Maybe I'll show what I have in mind and make some pictures with screens of AlienRL with altered graphics, if I have time. You really can make tricks with colors. Maybe consider giving it more color.
I know it's cool, I made some full color tech demos once. Unfortunately text-mode is 16 color, and we can't do anything about that. And unfortunately non-text mode looks bad on many PCs, not to mention that you can't play in a console (and via SSH).

Quote
Realistic mode? *giggles* You mean "SUICIDE" mode :P

Exactly. It could be interesting.
And rather *short* :P

What's wrong if someone do this kind of movement anyway ? It doesn't make sense to wait for one ping after you just got one or wait for ping every two or few steps because aliens could change places anyway. However I wonder what idea you have in mind.
DaEezT might explain that better, but globaly, lighthouse movements become tedious and boring after some time.

Quote
/me was hit with a wall of text for full damage!

Well, walls don't attack.. ;)

Text walls, similarily to living walls -- do :P


P.S. I wonder what others think.

Yeah, me too -_-

Unfortunately, it's been quiet here for a time, so people have to gather again -_-

HEAR THAT, YOU LURKERS? :P
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Daqin on November 28, 2007, 00:44
Well this is a thing that makes combat predictible, and surprisingly predictible combat is a good thing. At least in this game :).

Not when suprisingly predictible combat does not enough damage to save your *ss :D. I'll try to explain my feelings about that. This how it goes: generally I try to think of alterations to the game in a way to give it even more joy if possible. And when I fire at alien some distance away it often makes me sad because even when I manage to hit it causes little damage and is waste of ammo. Yeah that's sad. That's why my point is to make it work more realisticaly, even if balance is at risk (however I would never say that it is at risk because there are tons of other random factors, and myself, I would reverse things: make combat less predictible to make finding some items or other non-combat things more predictible)

Quote
I know it's cool, I made some full color tech demos once. Unfortunately text-mode is 16 color, and we can't do anything about that. And unfortunately non-text mode looks bad on many PCs, not to mention that you can't play in a console (and via SSH).

Mm yea, that's bad. Maybe make experimental version in one, nice color only ? And see how all shadings and light-simulation  system makes a difference ? And, yeah it is cool. I was making graphics stuff too. Actually I was studying art/painting a little and I discovered that you may screw the form and create real tricks with color alone. That's why I thought that roguelikes could be very good place to make use of it.


Quote
And rather *short* :P

Maybe.. or maybe not. ;>

Quote
DaEezT might explain that better, but globaly, lighthouse movements become tedious and boring after some time.

Yes, that's why I said it doesn't make sense and it couldn't be really useful to walk this way anyway. Then why worry about that ?
 
Quote
Text walls, similarily to living walls -- do :P

Heheh 8D.. In such case I would say you cannot throw them or wield them.. -hit with them. :P

Quote
HEAR THAT, YOU LURKERS? :P
:)

Thanks
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Adral on November 28, 2007, 10:15
Unfortunately, it's been quiet here for a time, so people have to gather again -_-

HEAR THAT, YOU LURKERS? :P

Adral reporting for duty, for the Glory of the Emperor!

I'd really like to both:
a) be able to play the game without problems. (I have played AliensRL for like 5 minutes)
b) have enough time to consider everything that was posted here. I have always liked discussing suggestions for roguelikes.

So this is a post of "I am not dead, and I'm listening" more than anything else. :P Sorry but I really cannot say much more for now :-/. Keep discussing, though! I'll be sure to check this again when I have some spare time.
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: zaimoni on November 30, 2007, 19:43
What's wrong if someone do this kind of movement anyway ? It doesn't make sense to wait for one ping after you just got one or wait for ping every two or few steps because aliens could change places anyway. However I wonder what idea you have in mind.
DaEezT might explain that better, but globaly, lighthouse movements become tedious and boring after some time.[/quotes]
Besides driving attention to detail up (and consequent tedium), there's a matter of time scale.

Requiring lighthouse movements doesn't make sense at time scales above a second or so.  And I don't see the player running in this game, but rather walking briskly and alertly -- so the "turn precision" is low enough that we can just assume lighthouse movements and give the player 360-degree field of view.
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Daqin on November 30, 2007, 22:52
Requiring lighthouse movements doesn't make sense at time scales above a second or so.  And I don't see the player running in this game, but rather walking briskly and alertly -- so the "turn precision" is low enough that we can just assume lighthouse movements and give the player 360-degree field of view.

Hmm, I assumed that movement detector will work in 360-degree anyway. I got the point now. Thought lighthouse movements is step-and-wait for ping thing.
I copy that to give player 360-degree field of view (solves many problems)
Title: screenshot
Post by: Daqin on December 01, 2007, 03:47
Here, in one color, no walls and things out of LOS invisible.
http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/9cf15fe9c8_0.01MB
Don't say it gives no claustrophobia..
I didn't have much time to do it better (I am travelling, almost out of money, no return ticket, had to sell laptop, edited this picture in a cafe with windows paint).

This one can go with 8 colors only, so other 8 for different things (or for smoother effect)
Maybe I'll do later one with more LOS and lights on walls.
Title: Re: screenshot
Post by: Newts Revenge on March 07, 2008, 15:16
Quote from: Kornel Kisielewicz
Unfortunately, it's been quiet here for a time, so people have to gather again -_-

HEAR THAT, YOU LURKERS? :P

Still here, just waiting for a new version or an announcement :P
(And downloading again on another PC)

Don't say it gives no claustrophobia..

Very nice!
That look seems just perfect for the game.
Title: Re: screenshot
Post by: Daqin on March 10, 2008, 04:03
Don't say it gives no claustrophobia..

Very nice!
That look seems just perfect for the game.


Yea, I was thinking that could make perfect atmosohere for Alien. If made well this light 'system' could look much better than in my (made in cafe with windows paint) picture. There could be light on walls imitated by lighted up areas radiating from the wall and expanding your loss, aliens, barrels and character could cast a shadow (1 or 2 tiles behind him could be darker,in oposite deriction to source of light), kinda dynamic light system. Shoting could light up area and expand los for a moment and be treated as source of light for that instant (and make things cast shadows). You could enter room and light it up with gun fire.. or barrel explosion.
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Newts Revenge on March 11, 2008, 18:03
Ah.

I hate to rain on this parade, but I've just noticed that that scheme won't work... The windows console only has 2 shades of green, light and dark. That's all.

(In fact it only has 2 shades of any colour...)

So to do what you've drawn in that image would require a tileset. Without one, you could compromise by having an inner circle of brightness and an outer circle of dark colours, but you wouldn't get that nice gradient.

Come to think of it, there's something a bit ridiculous about the idea of a Roguelike with dynamic lighting and shadowing effects... Maybe it needs normal mapping and bloom as well? :)

Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Daqin on March 13, 2008, 23:48
Come to think of it, there's something a bit ridiculous about the idea of a Roguelike with dynamic lighting and shadowing effects... Maybe it needs normal mapping and bloom as well? :)

Roguelikes in the past didn't have sound. Now, to me, roguelikes with sound add much to atmosphere.
I didn't use 3d term: lighting system, but rather called it light-system which describes what I ment. Would you reply If I used different word (for example: brightness adjusting), so it couldn't conjure anything you could compare to, and judge ? What you find ridiculous about it ? I rather find it inspiring. Maybe, actually, ridiculous was your thought assuming that it was in attempt of imitation something from 'bigger screen', because name matches.. So you are laughing/smiling at your own thoughts and announce it to everyone (who can read btwn the lines), because you actually believe that situation is exactly as it looks in your mind, which gives you motivation to speak and point silly things out. And since this idea/judgment was created in your mind, it is clear it is conditioned to create silly looking things which you project on outside objects, and by doing so you only speak about your tendencies and way of seeing world. None of this view has actually anything to do with what is going on (in other peoples minds) and doesn't describe anything that is happening. It is in your mind only. Notice how your view changes when affected by condition to create judgment/compare.
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Rabiat on March 14, 2008, 04:09
Quote from: Daqin
So you are laughing/smiling at your own thoughts and announce it to everyone (who can read btwn the lines), because you actually believe that situation is exactly as it looks in your mind, which gives you motivation to speak and point silly things out. And since this idea/judgment was created in your mind, it is clear it is conditioned to create silly looking things which you project on outside objects, and by doing so you only speak about your tendencies and way of seeing world.

Spoken like a true philospher. Lighten up. ;)

Quote from: Newts Revenge
Come to think of it, there's something a bit ridiculous about the idea of a Roguelike with dynamic lighting and shadowing effects... Maybe it needs normal mapping and bloom as well? :)

The representation of a roguelike environment is too coarse to apply detailed effects, but dynamic lighting makes sense. I tried static light sources, and they look terribly unnatural if the environment changes. If a door opens or a wall is blown up, one expects to see a light beam falling though the gap if there is a light source on the other side. This could also affect gameplay (e.g. if NPCs can see the PC from a greater distance when the PC is in a lit area). Fortunately a standard FOV algorithm is all you need to make static light sources dynamic.
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Daqin on March 15, 2008, 05:14
Spoken like a true philospher. Lighten up. ;)
In that case, I am glad to meet another one. :)

Fortunately a standard FOV algorithm is all you need to make static light sources dynamic.

I recently think of roguelike that would be called Assassin. It would have raher new or rare features: dynamic lighting system, advanced stealth (cover and camuflage) and on sound/noise system (part of stealth), and directed field of vision (180 degrees). I already thought about mechanics in detailed way and it would make very big post to explained everything, and even bigger if I explain detailed mechanics/algorithms, so I will try just point out few things generaly to make it short.

Character could move in three modes: srtaight, stalking and prone. Character walking speed would corespond to these. Character could also run, but that would be useful in certain situatons since it would be least stealthy mode (noise) and character would become tired faster. Walking would be most optimal for exploration/ and stealthy travel (until you spot something) and also would not require much effort (tire character). Stalking would be as silent as moving prone. Slower than walking, but much more silent and it would also make character smaller, less visible, and allows to hide behind lower covers (for example stalking behind some crate would cover character, while standing he could be partly visible). Stalking would tire character also quite fast. Prone mode would be as silent as stalking, but much slower. It would be useful to hide behind much smaller things, where stalking/crouching steel makes you partialy visible. Height of cover/character/monster would be represented by its brightness. Very bright things, also marked in capital letters would mean it is quite high, while darker are lower (so character's brightness would change together while he is walking/crouching/ducking). Pallete would have two colors with many grades. One would be used for enviroment to reprsent light (dynamic lighting system) the other for objects/monsters (to represent how high things are). With one button player could change display to show everything in light mode if he needs to see how visible things are (then everything would be shaded in color of light to represent how much they are affected by it). There could be also 1 or 2 colors reserved for info screen. Generaly, if monster is some distant from object (cover) then area behind the objects offer some cover. The higher the monster is, and the lower the object is, makes space behind object lose cover gradualy much quicker. If the monster is lower than object, area blocked by object and behind it would have full cover offered by the object, and could even rise further from the object. This would all work with height of character (so what mode he is in). It is not very clear explanation so I'll show example of what I mean.
# -this is object and has height of 6
@ -character stalking, height of 5
M -big monster, height of 9

Situation looks like this:
@.....#...M

Numbers show cover value of the area versus the monster
@44556#000M    (Character[5] is visible partialy, monster has chance to notice character, now light plays role and monsters perception, while sound is factor all the time. It shows more or less how it would work)

If monster was lower[5] it could look like this:

@77766#000m  (Character[5] not visible. If he walks straight[8] he again could be noticed, and more likely -heard)

Beside that character would have directed field of view (180 degree, assassin is quite aware) which could rotate in 8 directions normally. Character would rotate field of view automatically in moving direction, or while holding key(shift) he could move keeping current view direction. Single shift tap followed with direction would allow to rotate vision without moving.
Monster would have their ruts and character could observe them for a while to see patern in moving/patroling. They could also make unexpected movements, especially if alerted. They would also have their looking direction, which would determine if they can see character at all atm. This could be represented by - with color and shade of overlapped tile (to display if there is object at the place, or free space), pointing away from monster: like this

 -M looking left, M- looking right
M  
   \    looking south/east, etc.

Visibility of character would be determined by his height and by light intensity of the tile he is in. However, background cover would also be important. For example if character is in dark space but there is light source/brighter wall behind him (in straight line from a monster) then, instead of current darkness of a tile character is in, the light value of the wall/brightest tile behind character would be used (whichever is brighter) because monster could see outiline of the character clearly. So for stealth player would have to take the account current cover and background cover.
Sound factor would play important role. This could be represented by radar:
Code: [Select]
             
  \ | /
  - * -
  / | \
If character hear steps from some direction then it would appear in radar, and brightness would represent how loud/close they are. If there are more steps, they would also appear (up to three -more than that sound is too mixed to distinguish) in order from loudest to most quiet/distant (radiating from the center on of the radar), like this:
Code: [Select]
             
    *
    *
  \ | /
  - * - *
  / | \
Two step sounds from the north, one form the east. These would be acompanied be real sounds(samples/waves) with loudness coresponding to radar.
Brightness of star in the middle would show loudness of your own steps (which could also be acompanied with sample/wave so you can actually hear how silent you are, and if you misstep you will notice that without looking at the radar). If you hear some heavy steps with clining of metal then it could mean some heavy armored person/guard is in the area, and thatcould be represented by inverted star (beside wave).
Sound in dungeon actually echoes from walls. So if you are inside room with just one door in the north wall, you would hear all sounds coming from the north. Similary if you stand in corridor you would hear sounds coming from two alternate direction. This can be easily done by taking straight possible walking line to the source of sound: direction on radar would corespond to direction of last tile of the line when it is touching you (of course the line would not be visible to a player because character can't see the movement of the air/sound). Like this.
Code: [Select]
###########
M-----\....
######|####
#.....|...#
#.....|...#
#.....@...#
#.........#
###########
Hear sound comes from the north.

Code: [Select]
###########
M-----\....
######|####
#......\..#
#.......\.#
#........@#
#.........#
###########
Here sound comes from north-west.

If you hear runing steps, it could appear with diferent sign on radar (and runing steps sample/wave), and would generaly be louder.
As assassin, you take adventage of stealth. For example. If you manage to stalk behind ogre, you have your chance (backstab) but you need to stand straight to reach its neck (heart is to deep to reach from behind..8/ ). Generally, there would be different ways for different monsters. You would have to monitor two things closely: health, and stamina. Health because it would be hard to heal in this game, stamina because it greatly reduces you combat/stalking/runing effectivness. You could have easier time slaying one ot two monsters, but if more appears you would be already tired and that could be dangerous. You would also run slower. Stalking too long would also tire you up too much which could be dangerous in case of unsuccesful ambush. So you would have to find someplaces ocassionaly and rest a bit after some events. When tired you could hear your heavy breath every few turns, becoming louder, faster and appearing more often if you get more and more tired. This at some point could also be acompanied with sample/wave of you double heart beat every step (PUM-pum), which would become louder and Pup-pum faster the more tired/wounded you are.
If monsters notice something about you/hear something they may be alerted a little and they will go to investigate. If they become aware of you (see clearly/combat) they become very alerted and tend to run and shout things when they see other of their kind (sample/wave), and the other becomes alerted similary, and that could spread (so it sometimes would be better to take out alerted monster instead running). Alertness level of a monster with cool down slowly with time, if they do not notice anything that could rise it again. Slowly they would return to their normal actions. If you run from monster it would go shortest path to the tile it last saw you, than would go randomly in direction that was not in his vision when you disappeared.
Generally dynamic light, sounds of steps, monster mumbling and shouting (ununderstandable), breath, heartbeat and your own steps could create unique atmosphere that you could hear and see, if made wisely. More likely if you add tactical play of stealth and awarness (watching and knowing what monsters do), and quick and possibly spectacular combat system.
Character would stalk behind covers, peek and watch others, take right moment to go to other place and close up the target, seeking dark places and avoiding the light, while being aware of steps coming from some other direction, and looking here and there ocasionly seeking stationary threat, etc.
Assassin would also heavily depent on whole sort of proffesion gadgets, ranging from simple stone to distract others, to blowtubes with poisoned needles, picklock tools, flashbombs to to make monsters fight blind for a moment or to help you run, things to take out light, alchemy stuff etc. Many ideas can go here.
I can't write this actually, and was thinking maybe of someone who would like to co-op if is interested to make such game together. I used to write on different computers than PC so I could present algorithms, more or less.
Game background and outlook is completely different, open story.

Anyway, I'm interested in anyones creative suggestions and what you think.

EDIT:
I forgot some things. Main one is:
The way of stalking.
When stalking animals in our world (so, creatures in roguelike) you have to be aware of few things. First, animals rather don't recognize your look, instead they notice movement. So, when stalking something it suddenly looks in your direction and if you immediately freeze then it has small chance to notice you because you will appear just as part of landscape. Any movement however will attract animals attention and it will focus on you until it will figure out what you are, which generally means it will flee. If you wait until animal looks away from you then you may continue stalking and repeat this procedure. Even if you freeze but your shape has some unnatural color it may also raise attention because you will appear as some strange colored object in the landscape.. Of course senses and ability to recognize vary per species. In dungeon case it works similar. When ogre looks in your direction and you freeze, you may appear just as one of many shadow and will not get any attention. However if you continue moving then this will more likely be noticed by ogre and it will come to investigate.
In this game it would work the same way. If you stalk monster and it looks in your direction , you better stop moving and wait until it looks away. While remaining motionless is rather easy while standing or being prone, it requires strength and skill to freeze for longer time in stalking position. After time, being in some weird position that you were forced to freeze, may make you shift to one side or cause some uncontrolled movement of tensed muscles and this slight thing may catch attention of the observer. Your camouflage also would be important, so you would not attract attention as some strange looking object inside dungeon rooms.
Quietness, speed of stalking and ability to stay motionless would be represented by Stalking skill. Time in which you can remain motionless in stalking position and stamina would be represented by Stamina/Fitness skill.
Some others problems worth to mention:
If there is monster looking in one direction and there is bigger monster directly behind him looking into direction in which smaller is, like this:
Code: [Select]
#####
.Og-.
#####
(goblin looking east, and ogre also looking east, problem is with displaying direction ogre is looking)

then it could be represented by inverting tile with small monster. It would retain its color, but background color would have color and shade of the light in this tile (just as if suddenly area under the goblin where lightened up by the light coming from ogre eyes.. lol:)

In case when monster is facing wall, I think there is no need to mark it because monster is not looking anywhere else, like this:
Code: [Select]
#####
..O..
.....
(whatever he is doing..ehm)

That's all what I recall for now.
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Newts Revenge on March 29, 2008, 12:57
I didn't use 3d term: lighting system, but rather called it light-system which describes what I ment. Would you reply If I used different word (for example: brightness adjusting), so it couldn't conjure anything you could compare to, and judge ? What you find ridiculous about it ? I rather find it inspiring. Maybe, actually, ridiculous was your thought assuming that it was in attempt of imitation something from 'bigger screen', because name matches.. So you are laughing/smiling at your own thoughts and announce it to everyone (who can read btwn the lines), because you actually believe that situation is exactly as it looks in your mind, which gives you motivation to speak and point silly things out. And since this idea/judgment was created in your mind, it is clear it is conditioned to create silly looking things which you project on outside objects, and by doing so you only speak about your tendencies and way of seeing world. None of this view has actually anything to do with what is going on (in other peoples minds) and doesn't describe anything that is happening. It is in your mind only. Notice how your view changes when affected by condition to create judgment/compare.

Chill, mate. You are also reading (or mis-reading) too much into my specific wording. There is a big difference between saying something is plain "ridiculous" and "a bit ridiculous", and I didn't mean to ridicule your ideas, merely point out a fundamental contradiction which I noticed at that point. Perhaps I was too brief and flippant.

We were talking about a Roguelike game, and the minimalist, functional graphics of Roguelikes is one of their main defining features. To me, the point of a Roguelike is that the creative energy of the maker(s) is focused on the gameplay and having a complex "inner" game world, without the drain on creative resources of producing a sophisticated "outer" representation, namely graphics and sound. Therefore, I think it's fair to say that to spend much creative energy on talking about or making purely cosmetic enhancements to a roguelike "defeats the purpose" of the game using the roguelike form to begin with.

Up to the point where you talked about lighting up an area with gunfire, the system you were describing seemed to be intended as a purely cosmetic enhancement that would only make tiles lighter or darker. Certainly the mockup you drew shows such a system. It would be quite different to talk about changing the visibility of tiles according to the light on them, which is not purely cosmetic, and entirely within the "spirit of the roguelike" as I see it.

Of course you are right that roguelikes often have stuff added to them now, such as optional tilesets, or sound and music, which are there only to provide "atmosphere" and are purely cosmetic. It's not like Roguelikes can't have enhancements added to them, and if the light gradient system that you drew in your picture were possible I'm sure it would add atmosphere to AliensRL too, as I said. If AliensRL had tileset support then it might be worth implementing a set of tiles that mimic the ASCII graphics but provide a greater range of colours in order to implement shading like that in your mockup; it would be much less effort than a set of proper artwork.

The idea of a roguelike system where the visibility of a tile depends on the light from many possible sources, not just one source centred on the player is an interesting one.

I haven't read your post about "Assassin" yet, it's long and I have to log off now for Earth Hour...
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Daqin on March 30, 2008, 01:12
Chill, mate.

There is nothing to chill. I said what I said. Deal with that, not with my supposed emotions. Whatever emotions may be, I use reason anyway. So what you got from me is straight point and respect. If it were not those than I would play around concealing what I actually think. In same manner, I don't care about your emotions. These are hard to control and I won't interfere with these. They are not my business and are your personal thing.

Quote
You are also reading (or mis-reading) too much into my specific wording. There is a big difference between saying something is plain "ridiculous" and "a bit ridiculous", and I didn't mean to ridicule your ideas, merely point out a fundamental contradiction which I noticed at that point. Perhaps I was too brief and flippant.

There is no difference in words to me. The only difference is in meaning behind. I didn't think you attempted to ridiculous anything. I simply pointed out your way of thinking. You can't ridicule me. This always will be your point of view.

Quote
We were talking about a Roguelike game, and the minimalist, functional graphics of Roguelikes is one of their main defining features. To me, the point of a Roguelike is that the creative energy of the maker(s) is focused on the gameplay and having a complex "inner" game world, without the drain on creative resources of producing a sophisticated "outer" representation, namely graphics and sound. Therefore, I think it's fair to say that to spend much creative energy on talking about or making purely cosmetic enhancements to a roguelike "defeats the purpose" of the game using the roguelike form to begin with.

Yes, to You. Are there any restrictions on roguelikes ? If someone makes some, it doesn't concern anyone.

Quote
Up to the point where you talked about lighting up an area with gunfire, the system you were describing seemed to be intended as a purely cosmetic enhancement that would only make tiles lighter or darker. Certainly the mockup you drew shows such a system. It would be quite different to talk about changing the visibility of tiles according to the light on them, which is not purely cosmetic, and entirely within the "spirit of the roguelike" as I see it.

Whatever. If you are ready only for cosmetic enhancements then it is up to you.

Quote
Of course you are right that roguelikes often have stuff added to them now, such as optional tilesets, or sound and music, which are there only to provide "atmosphere" and are purely cosmetic. It's not like Roguelikes can't have enhancements added to them, and if the light gradient system that you drew in your picture were possible I'm sure it would add atmosphere to AliensRL too, as I said. If AliensRL had tileset support then it might be worth implementing a set of tiles that mimic the ASCII graphics but provide a greater range of colours in order to implement shading like that in your mockup; it would be much less effort than a set of proper artwork.

Again, if you want things without effort it is no problem to me.

Quote
The idea of a roguelike system where the visibility of a tile depends on the light from many possible sources, not just one source centred on the player is an interesting one.

Changing your mind ?

Quote
I haven't read your post about "Assassin" yet, it's long and I have to log off now for Earth Hour...

I forgot/missed some things to mention there. I will add it now.
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Newts Revenge on March 30, 2008, 08:30

There is nothing to chill. I said what I said. Deal with that, not with my supposed emotions. Whatever emotions may be, I use reason anyway. So what you got from me is straight point and respect.


Fine. I also said what I said. You assert that it is a problem with my way of thinking if I read meaning into your words which you didn't mean to put there. That is a ridiculous assertion, because how am I supposed to know what you are thinking, except through your words? But I'm happy to let that stand. By the same reasoning, it is also a problem with your way of thinking if you misinterpret what I say. You deal with it. One attempt to explain myself more clearly to you is all you get.

To summarise the facts (feel free to dispute them, but don't expect a response):
-Your shaded lighting scheme won't work, due to technical limitations.
-Your shaded lighting scheme amounts to a crude imitation in roguelike form of what radiance systems in CGI do, which is to make objects lighter or darker according to the amount of light that is supposed to be reflected from them. That's what you drew in your picture and described in the first part of your post afterwards. Maybe that's not what you had in your mind, but that's what was in your words, and we can't read your mind.
-Your shaded lighting scheme is a cosmetic enhancement, albeit a nice one.
-I think it is somewhat pointless to concentrate on cosmetic enhancements to a roguelike. You're entitled to your own opinion on the matter.

The ideas you put forward in your "assassin" post are much more interesting, and similar to something I am working on.
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Vestin on March 30, 2008, 09:37
There is no difference in words to me. The only difference is in meaning behind. I didn't think you attempted to ridiculous anything. I simply pointed out your way of thinking.
Your psychic abilities amuse me ;)... Or they would - if you didn't contradict yourself so evidently. You understand that words have different meanings, yet are somehow certain that your interpretation is the correct one... even if the author says that it isn't.
Either show a little bit more humility or lighten up. Having your head so far up your own ass doesn't ease the conversation.

Quote from: Daqin
You can't ridicule me. This always will be your point of view.
I know I'm gonna be mean but... hell - I already am ;P.
If you really think that talking about emotions has no point - WTF was that supposed to mean ? Besides - who cares about having you ridiculed or not ? You just show a bit o insecurity by mentioning it, that's all you've gained.

Quote from: Daqin
Quote
(...) To me, the point of a Roguelike is (...)
Yes, to You. Are there any restrictions on roguelikes ? If someone makes some, it doesn't concern anyone.
He says: "IMO". You say: "I don't care about your opinion". Why the hell would anyone care about what YOU think if you have absolutely no respect for others ?

As for the whole point - there are things that people ussually assume when we say "roguelike". You may have an idea for a game that incorporates some elements of the genre but doesn't include some other (also considered "core elements") - fine. Just don't insist on calling it a standart roguelike on one hand... and DON'T tell us that you understand the term better then anyone else... or that there is nothing in common when people say "roguelike" because they somehow manage to understand what that means... excluding you, I guess.


Quote from: Daqin
Quote
Up to the point where you talked about lighting up an area with gunfire, the system you were describing seemed to be intended as a purely cosmetic enhancement that would only make tiles lighter or darker. Certainly the mockup you drew shows such a system. It would be quite different to talk about changing the visibility of tiles according to the light on them, which is not purely cosmetic, and entirely within the "spirit of the roguelike" as I see it.

Whatever. (...)
OMG... A single-worded summary of how much you care... I'm speachless.


Quote from: Daqin
Quote
(...)it would be much less effort than a set of proper artwork.

Again, if you want things without effort it is no problem to me.
Missing the whole point... AGAIN. Roguelikes with graphics are like a Resident Evil with aliens instead of zombies. That is: if you want something different... look elsewhere. I dunno - play Thief, Oblivion or Incubation. There are a lot of games with graphics.
Seriously - programming all the stuff you've described seems pointless - it's far easier to do all of this in a graphical environment, where there are no needs to find makeshift solutions to obvious limitations.
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Daqin on March 30, 2008, 12:29
There is nothing to chill. I said what I said. Deal with that, not with my supposed emotions. Whatever emotions may be, I use reason anyway.

Fine. I also said what I said. You assert that it is a problem with my way of thinking if I read meaning into your words which you didn't mean to put there. That is a ridiculous assertion, because how am I supposed to know what you are thinking, except through your words? But I'm happy to let that stand. By the same reasoning, it is also a problem with your way of thinking if you misinterpret what I say. You deal with it. One attempt to explain myself more clearly to you is all you get.

I said deal with it, not with me.

There is no difference in words to me. The only difference is in meaning behind. I didn't think you attempted to ridiculous anything. I simply pointed out your way of thinking.
Your psychic abilities amuse me ;)...

Very well.

Quote from: Vestin
Or they would - if you didn't contradict yourself so evidently. You understand that words have different meanings,

I didn't say words have different meaning. I spoke about meaning behind them. What you mean you can say by many words. You can use same words when you mean something else.

Quote from: Vestin
yet are somehow certain that your interpretation is the correct one... even if the author says that it isn't.

I know what I mean when I speak.

Quote from: Vestin
Either show a little bit more humility or lighten up. Having your head so far up your own ass doesn't ease the conversation.

If you don't know what others mean when speak to you, you may interpret it like you wish. If you can however, you would react to what you see without concern of how for up your ass others see your head.

Quote from: Vestin
Quote from: Daqin
You can't ridicule me. This always will be your point of view.
I know I'm gonna be mean but... hell - I already am ;P.
If you really think that talking about emotions has no point - WTF was that supposed to mean ? Besides - who cares about having you ridiculed or not ? You just show a bit o insecurity by mentioning it, that's all you've gained.

Did I say it has no point? I said it can't affect me. Because it can't. What is inside your head has nothing to do with me, whatever picture it may be. It is just that, just there. I, however, may have something to do with that picture.

Quote from: Vestin
Quote from: Daqin
Quote
(...) To me, the point of a Roguelike is (...)
Yes, to You. Are there any restrictions on roguelikes ? If someone makes some, it doesn't concern anyone.
He says: "IMO". You say: "I don't care about your opinion". Why the hell would anyone care about what YOU think if you have absolutely no respect for others ?

I am interested in your opinion. I am. I am not interested in restrictions you put on me. I respect your point of view. I don't care about the view you want to put in me.
I have my point of view, and I don't care if someone has the same. It has nothing to do with me and doesn't concern me. If someone is interested in my point of view, I like to share it, just like I am interested in yours, if you wish to share it. I don't force my view on anyone, and don't accept someone's forcing on me.

Quote from: Vestin
As for the whole point - there are things that people ussually assume when we say "roguelike". You may have an idea for a game that incorporates some elements of the genre but doesn't include some other (also considered "core elements") - fine. Just don't insist on calling it a standart roguelike on one hand... and DON'T tell us that you understand the term better then anyone else... or that there is nothing in common when people say "roguelike" because they somehow manage to understand what that means... excluding you, I guess.

As for me, roguelikes are ASCII. You may connect it with whatever else. I don't care about standard or whatever mark it may have. I am interested in content, not the box. I don't understand them better than anyone else because I don't know what you mean by that. What is to understand ? I can only have experience of a game, that's it. I didn't say they have nothing in common. This is however may be different for every individual. You know better what is special for you about these games, no one will tell you that.

Quote from: Vestin
Quote from: Daqin
Quote
Up to the point where you talked about lighting up an area with gunfire, the system you were describing seemed to be intended as a purely cosmetic enhancement that would only make tiles lighter or darker. Certainly the mockup you drew shows such a system. It would be quite different to talk about changing the visibility of tiles according to the light on them, which is not purely cosmetic, and entirely within the "spirit of the roguelike" as I see it.

Whatever. (...)
OMG... A single-worded summary of how much you care... I'm speachless.
Why you demand from me to care? Do I tell you to do that ? And I mean exactly that: Whatever.., these words may sum up, evaluate or categorize whatever I did, but it is just like 'whatever' for the need for these things.

Quote from: Vestin
Quote from: Daqin
Quote
(...)it would be much less effort than a set of proper artwork.

Again, if you want things without effort it is no problem to me.
Missing the whole point...

I didn't. I did not reply to particular words but to whole in general, which obviously displayed interest in what way and with what priority the game should be done.

Quote from: Vestin
AGAIN. Roguelikes with graphics are like a Resident Evil with aliens instead of zombies. That is: if you want something different... look elsewhere. I dunno - play Thief, Oblivion or Incubation. There are a lot of games with graphics.
Seriously - programming all the stuff you've described seems pointless - it's far easier to do all of this in a graphical environment, where there are no needs to find makeshift solutions to obvious limitations.
if you don't like you don't have to play it, or even discuss it. I would play it. Whoever wants would play it. If there are those who would, why to say it is pointless? If you are not interested just skip it, why you want to break it?
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Rabiat on March 30, 2008, 15:43
Daqin, I must say I respect your efforts to come up with original ideas and your attempts to put them to words. I for one can empathise.

That being said, you practice Borg logic with a painful inability to distinguish honesty from sarcasm, and bear striking resemblance to a barrel in DoomRL; nobody intentionally hits you, but you're just sitting there waiting for an excuse to explode - with a four tile blast radius. Please, accept the language barrier, and deal with the Asperger's. You either are unaware of, or seriously underestimate, the amount of thought others have gone through before you when it comes to roguelike development.
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on March 30, 2008, 23:18
Chill out, all of you :).

I really appreciate the technical part of this discussion, but the flame one is getting funny :P
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Daqin on March 31, 2008, 00:13
Daqin, I must say I respect your efforts to come up with original ideas and your attempts to put them to words. I for one can empathise.

That being said, you practice Borg logic with a painful inability to distinguish honesty from sarcasm, and bear striking resemblance to a barrel in DoomRL; nobody intentionally hits you, but you're just sitting there waiting for an excuse to explode - with a four tile blast radius. Please, accept the language barrier, and deal with the Asperger's. You either are unaware of, or seriously underestimate, the amount of thought others have gone through before you when it comes to roguelike development.


Thanks for respect. However I do not put effort in these. I do not wish to come up with idea. I simply say it when it comes to my mind and I like to translate it to into words to share and to see how would it work.

I do not practice that logic you mentioned, I don't know it, so maybe it may look for you this way. My inability or ability you presume on yours already judgments which you believe are correct, what naturally means I am mistaken, because views are different. That is weird that you think I sit and wait for someone to hit me if I start subject with neutral idea and do not intent to get hit by anything. If you actually pay attention to details you can discover some things. All you can notice from some people is attempt to grant you or deny your own right for your own games/ideas. That is strange because how can someone control or get credit for something that didn't come from him and what you already have? And what is purpose of that?
Anyway, if something said here by anyone can be considered 'flaming' I am not responsible for their actions.

EDIT:
..with a painful inability to distinguish honesty from sarcasm,
I know what you mean by honesty and sarcasm. I however have different view on what these actually are.

nobody intentionally hits you, but you're just sitting there waiting for an excuse to explode
I know now, that I do some mistake, but that is not that. And I seem to repeat that mistake because I haven't found the alternative yet. However your insight already pointed me direction, and I am very thankful for that (Daqin bows gracefully).

Please, accept the language barrier,
It is not really barrier. However I did other mistake at some point. While being aware of what I am dealing with I skipped the content (without paying attention) going straight into expected outcome, which, in this way, I actually created/let it come. So, by seeing intended outcome I went straight there as if there was no other possibility, missing that I can direct it into different result/path. (that's how I can explain that)
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Newts Revenge on March 31, 2008, 05:47
I said deal with it, not with me.

As you wish:

I didn't use 3d term: lighting system, but rather called it light-system which describes what I ment. (...) Maybe, actually, ridiculous was your thought assuming that it was in attempt of imitation something from 'bigger screen', because name matches..

No, I don't think so, because that's what you described. Areas lighting up and barrels casting shadows with gunfire? You were talking about an FPS, whether you meant to or not.

Let's talk instead about changing the boolean visibility of a tile according to how much light is falling on it. That is, we are not just changing its brightness, we are changing whether it is "visible" or "outside vision". Aliens RL already uses this principle in a limited way to do the "dark" environment of the storage tower, by decreasing the vision radius. But we could take it further than that and generally calculate for every tile not just whether it is visible from the player's position, but if there is enough light falling on it from any nearby sources for them to actually see what is there. Thus in a dark area with a few lights, the player might have a large vision radius but still be unable to see most of their surroundings. (In fact, I think that somebody - possibly me - already suggested elsewhere the idea of having flare pickups in Aliens RL, which could be used to permanently light up areas in the storage tower.)

In fact we can make it a "fuzzy" boolean. If a tile is less than 100% lit, but greater than 0%, then the tile itself is drawn - in a darker colour, if possible - but there is a <100% chance of drawing any object at that location which the player has not already seen. That chance would depend on the amount of light, and also how easy the object is to see. Small and immobile objects (like pistol clips) would be much more difficult to see than large and mobile ones (like aliens). Light-emitting objects (such as, well, lights) are the easiest to see of all. In general: light, motion and size determine whether one thing is perceived by the visual senses of another. In a stealth-oriented game, this would all apply to the enemies as much as to the player.

Of course, this is all interesting as an intellectual exercise, but it needs to add gameplay to be worth doing (particularly since it will multiply the number of LOS tests that need to be done). In AliensRL, the player can't sneak up on the aliens, and the aliens already wait motionless until they are "seen" before they attack. This already means that in the dark environment of the storage tower they get to ambush the player, and if the player goes poking about in the corners of rooms looking for extra pistol clips then they might find an alien instead. As it stands there's not much benefit to having the system I describe above. It just introduces some extra randomness to the edges of the visible area, which is the player is not able to influence.

However, consider if the aliens are given a larger vision range than the player (at least in darkness) and if they only wait to be seen before advancing if the player is moving away from them. Now the player faces the possibility of entering a room through a door in the middle of one wall, moving into the room in one direction, and then finding that aliens have advanced behind them and are between them and the door. If they have flares, they can reduce this possibility by chucking a flare to one side of the room when they enter. In dark areas in general, assuming that flares are in plentiful supply, using a flare could save the player a lot of bullets. Of course, we don't need a full light-based visibility system to get this effect; we only need flares, and some minor changes to alien behaviour...
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Daqin on March 31, 2008, 23:02
I said deal with it, not with me.

As you wish:
.....

LOL
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: bfg9001 on April 19, 2008, 14:42
This probably has already been suggested, but since this is a tactical RL of sorts, how about different ammo types, such as Armor Piercing rounds or Explosive Rounds (which increase armor piercing ability or damage, respectivley)? I could see this getting somewhat complicated, but it would be kinda' neat.
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Sachiko on April 20, 2008, 03:56
Piercing and Explosive rounds, huh? That is not as crazy as you think.

In fact, In AvP game, the marine's pistol can be loaded with normal and AP rounds. AP rounds are capable of splattering the heads of lesser aliens pretty quickly, and even put some hurt on praetorians, thanks to their capability to pierce almost all of their armor and exploding when it enters in the body.

The Pulse Rifle's grenade launcher can also be loaded with different kinds of grenades, like white phosphorum incendiary grenades, and even proximity mines.
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Dakin on February 23, 2009, 15:57
I wonder of anyone's new or old thoughts on AssasinRL, if any. Kornel, would you be up for something like that ? Or anyone else ? Just wondering. Seems good project to me. Difficult however.
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Melon on February 24, 2009, 05:17
I would rather see piercing as a passive ability (If you get SoBx3 you can get AP (Armour piercing)). Each stage of AP increases the chance, that your bullets will pierce the enemy.
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: skarczew on February 25, 2009, 02:57
Quote
If you get SoBx3 you can get AP (Armour piercing)
This is not DoomRL, this is AliensRL ;) .
Title: Re: Hello (and suggestions)
Post by: Melon on February 25, 2009, 05:45
Quote
This is not DoomRL, this is AliensRL ;) .
Oh God, sorry, my bad :D