Chaosforge Forum
DoomRL => Bug Reports => Topic started by: siwucha on May 12, 2013, 13:11
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I wanted to report, that this is still an issue in 0.9.9.7. This happens sometimes (but not exclusively) when a monster is standing in a door on the edge of vision. An example without a door involved is:
#.h....xx
#xxx..##x
##xxx.##x
.....xxxx
##....##@
#.....##x
#......xx
x: visible tiles
.: invisible tiles
h: invisible former human who shoots at me.
@: player position
#: wall
I moved to determine the formers position, so he might also have moved one step there. He continued to shoot at me when I moved back, though. (And still was not in vision range).
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So it's ok if you can attack them when they do not see you, but when they attack you when you don't see them the whining starts? :P
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Have you tried Angel of Darkness?
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Have you tried Angel of Darkness?
Heh. I came here to make this exact post. You seem to have beat me to it.
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Heh. I came here to make this exact post. You seem to have beat me to it.
Ninja'd by six hours! :P
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So it's ok if you can attack them when they do not see you, but when they attack you when you don't see them the whining starts? :P
Personally, I don't have problem with enemies attacking me, like cybie do, or in open areas. AoD is another perfect example : you deliberatly chose to have a short LOS, so handle it !
What makes it not-ok is that there is no rule defining when and why monster can shoot at you when you're supposed to be under cover.
While one can probably know all the existing LOS patterns, for anyone else, it results in a purely random factor, making you vulnerable in situations where the "rules" let you think you're protected.
When it's a former human, it's rarely a serious problem, but with a commando, revenant, or mancubus, you can get one-shot...
And just to insist on it : the problem is not enemies attacking the doomguy, or even enemies attacking from hidden areas, It's the randomness around it, making it unpredictable.
For a strategic game, we need to be able to predict what happens. If moving somewhere "might expose me... or not", then I'd better play lottery.
This kind of unpredictable behaviours is one of the reason why my current "strategy" is to camp some cover and permawait with my shotgun until the level is cleaned (which is plain boring and repetitive, but removes random factors). I got too much bad surprises with current LOS, and walking is just not as effective as waiting.
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Asymmetrical LOS works both ways, as ironic as it sounds.
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the problem is not enemies attacking the doomguy, or even enemies attacking from hidden areas, It's the randomness around it, making it unpredictable.
I think that sums it up very nicely. Thanks for this explanation. The reason why I originally posted this, is not that I find it unreasonable, that enemies can shoot you from out of sight. I posted it, because that is usually not what happens. In 99% of all situations enemies can only shoot you when you can see them. That makes the few corner cases, where this is not so, unexpected and seemingly random.
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I don't like the fact AI does not use this advantage. Monsters never try to reach the safe corner and shoot you when they are not visible. It gives player some tactical moves which always prevent opponents from occasional corner-shooting (because there are NO corner-shooting on purpose, only occasional). But I understand if AI really try to reach a corner the game will probably be much harder.
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But I understand if AI really try to reach a corner the game will probably be much harder.
That'll be just what I need, thanks ;)
Seriously, I have no quarrels with enemies being able to attack from outside vision every once in a while; were this an FPS you could have the same problem if you're either not careful enough or just unlucky. With so much randomness already in the game, I see no harm in leaving this in as well.
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Wasn't it said by Kornel himself that the corner trick was a bug? It was in the same release it was stated as being fixed that enemies began to gain the ability. Just saying, if it counts as a bug for the player to do it, then it should be a bug both ways.