because I suspect you're already well above my skill level when it comes to Nightmare challenges.
--------------------------------------------------------------
DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------
horos, level 6 Hell Baron 2nd Lieutenant Marine,
was eaten alive by a nightmare demon at the Hellgate.
He survived 14715 turns and scored 79252 points.
He played for 30 minutes and 1 second.
He opposed the Nightmare!
He killed 210 out of 289 hellspawn. (72%)
-- Special levels --------------------------------------------
Levels generated : 11
Levels visited : 1
Levels completed : 0
-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------
None
-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------
###########################################################
#################################.................#########
#################################..................######..
########...............i.....####...................###....
########.O......i..........O.####...................#......
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#......#..........c..........#......................#......
#......#............ccc......#......................#......
#....../.............X.......+......................#......
#......#............ccc......#......................#......
#......#..........c..........#......................#......
#..||.^#.....................#......................#......
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########.......O.......i.....####...................#......
########.................O...####...................###....
#################################..................######..
#################################.................#########
###########################################################
###########################################################
-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------
Health 0/60 Experience 11004/6
ToHit Ranged +0 ToHit Melee +4 ToDmg Ranged +0 ToDmg Melee +6
-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------
Class : Marine
Brute (Level 2)
Berserker (Level 1)
Badass (Level 2)
Vampyre (Level 1)
Bru->Bru->Ber->Bad->Bad->MVm->
-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------
[a] [ Armor ] red armor [2/4] (45%)
[b] [ Weapon ] chainsaw (4d6)
[c] [ Boots ] protective boots [2/2] (100%)
[d] [ Prepared ] shotgun (8d3) [1/1]
-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------
[a] pistol (2d4) [6/6]
[b] green armor [1/1] (100%)
[c] combat knife (2d5)
[d] 10mm ammo (x32)
[e] shotgun shell (x50)
[f] shotgun shell (x50)
[g] shotgun shell (x32)
[h] small med-pack
[i] small med-pack
[j] large med-pack
[k] large med-pack
[l] power mod pack
[m] technical mod pack
[n] steel boots [1/1] (100%)
-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------
Acid - internal 0% torso 0% feet 25%
Fire - internal 0% torso 12% feet 0%
-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------
44 former humans
14 former sergeants
15 former captains
71 imps
7 demons
38 lost souls
9 cacodemons
4 hell knights
6 barons of hell
2 pain elementals
-- History ---------------------------------------------------
He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
On level 8 he finally was eaten alive by a nightmare demon.
-- Messages --------------------------------------------------
There is a red armor [4/4] (100%) lying here.
There is a red armor [4/4] (100%) lying here.
You equip a red armor [4/4] (100%) from the ground.
There is a Large Health Globe lying here.
You feel like new!
You open the door.
Suddenly the walls lower! You dodge! You dodge! You are hit! You are hit! You
dodge! You dodge! You dodge! The missile hits the nightmare demon. The
missile hits the nightmare demon.
You dodge! The missile hits the nightmare demon. The missile hits the
nightmare demon. You dodge! The missile hits the nightmare imp.
You hit the nightmare demon. You dodge! The missile hits the nightmare demon.
You dodge! The missile hits the nightmare demon. The missile hits the
nightmare demon. The nightmare demon hits you. The nightmare demon hits you.
The nightmare demon hits you. The nightmare demon hits you. Your red armor is
damaged! You die!... Press <Enter>...
-- General ---------------------------------------------------
34 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
23 of those were killed.
And 2 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.
9 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
5 killed the bitch and survived.
4 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.
--------------------------------------------------------------
You hit the nightmare demon. You dodge! The missile hits the nightmare demon.
You dodge! The missile hits the nightmare demon. The missile hits the
nightmare demon. The nightmare demon hits you. The nightmare demon hits you.
The nightmare demon hits you. The nightmare demon hits you. Your red armor is
damaged! You die!... Press <Enter>...
Now, obviously we can't all be Neo, er, TwoDev, but I don't understand in what way he (and others! Credit where credit is due) performs some of the challenges he does - and in very little time, at that!
I kinda just died in one turn. How do people complete this level on N!, let alone damageless? Phase device abuse? What happens if you don't encounter one?
IMHO, you might have done better if you switched tactics to running and ran back to the left entrance. Running lowers enemy accuracy and increases you speed, so even if you would probably take a few bites, you could make it there. And once there, you could at least face the demons one at a time, instead of being surrounded by six of them ...
I think it's best not to try to make sense of 2Dev's games; they don't make sense to anyone else either. :P
I don't think it's possible to do it damageless without a lucky phase device or invulnerability. You can reduce the damage a lot by rocket-jumping out of the ambush, but that strategy depends on you having completed Hell's Arena, so it wouldn't have helped you in this case.
Other than that, lots of corner-shooting, radar-shooting, and generally shooting enemies outside of their visual range so they don't get a chance to shoot you. I recorded myself doing this not too long ago; you can see it at the beginning of this video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6pJefznL0I) (Ultra-Violence difficulty, but you get the idea)
More later; gotta go!
Here's some more information about Berserker:
The way Berserker works is pretty consistant - the effect lasts for 20 turns and if you melee attack four times in a row you will definitely go berserk. Sometimes it's less than four, which depends on how many enemies are in LOS, I think. This effect will help out if you climb down stairs and end up right next to a big enemy or a large group of them.
I try to keep the very long berserk effect from CC going all the way to dlvl 8 to help out with that.
I haven't managed a lot of success on N! runs thus far, my best run was when I was away from home over the holidays, and I had to cut that run short somewhere near Hell because I had to go back home. I'll give you a few tips from what I've personally gathered though.
That does give me a question - how do more berserk packs/berserker procs stack with a berserk effect already in progress? Linearly? Or is there a cap?Well, procs from Berserker trait scale down with the number of turns you already have on your berserk counter (the more turns from previous procs remain, the less you gain from the next proc), and is hard-capped at 100 turns. See here: https://drl.chaosforge.org/wiki/Traits#Berserker (https://drl.chaosforge.org/wiki/Traits#Berserker)
[...]This is especially important if you're ever detonating a timed nuke with an invulnerability sphere active[...]
--------------------------------------------------------------
DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------
horos, level 10 Hell Baron 2nd Lieutenant Scout,
defeated the Mastermind at the City of Dis.
He survived 377516 turns and scored 379849 points.
He played for 56 minutes and 1 second.
He opposed the Nightmare!
He killed 473 out of 968 hellspawn. (48%)
-- Special levels --------------------------------------------
Levels generated : 11
Levels visited : 4
Levels completed : 1
-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------
Cyberdemon's Head
UAC Star (bronze cluster)
UAC Platinum Badge
Longinus Platinum Badge
-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------
###########################################################
#########................................##################
########...............####...............#################
#######.......####.....####.....####.......################
######........####.....####.....####........###############
#####.........####.....####.....####.........##############
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###............................................############
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###...&####............................####....############
###....####............................####....############
###....####...................%........####....############
###...........................X................############
####..........####..............####..........#############
#####.........####.....####.....####.........##############
######........####.....####.....####........###############
#######.......####.....####.....####.......################
########...............####...............#################
#########................................##################
###########################################################
-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------
Health 31/50 Experience 49250/10
ToHit Ranged +0 ToHit Melee +6 ToDmg Ranged +0 ToDmg Melee +9
-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------
Class : Scout
Hellrunner (Level 2)
Brute (Level 3)
Berserker (Level 1)
Dodgemaster (Level 1)
Intuition (Level 2)
Blademaster (Level 1)
Bru->Bru->Ber->HR->HR->Bru->MBm->Int->DM->Int->
-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------
[a] [ Armor ] red armor [4/4] (85%)
[b] [ Weapon ] Longinus Spear (8d8)
[c] [ Boots ] protective boots [2/2] (79%)
[d] [ Prepared ] shotgun (8d3) [1/1]
-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------
[a] rocket launcher (6d6) [1/1]
[b] ballistic vest [1/1] (84%)
[c] chainsaw (4d7) (P)
[d] shotgun shell (x28)
[e] shotgun shell (x50)
[f] shotgun shell (x50)
[g] shotgun shell (x50)
[h] shotgun shell (x50)
[i] shotgun shell (x50)
[j] small med-pack
[k] large med-pack
[l] large med-pack
[m] large med-pack
[n] large med-pack
[o] large med-pack
[p] agility mod pack
[q] steel boots [1/1] (100%)
[r] shell box (x100)
-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------
Bullet - internal 60% torso 60% feet 60%
Melee - internal 60% torso 60% feet 60%
Shrapnel - internal 60% torso 60% feet 60%
Acid - internal 85% torso 85% feet 95%
Fire - internal 85% torso 95% feet 85%
Plasma - internal 60% torso 60% feet 60%
-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------
80 former humans
60 former sergeants
29 former captains
121 imps
29 demons
53 lost souls
18 cacodemons
8 hell knights
12 barons of hell
3 arachnotrons
7 former commandos
1 pain elemental
17 mancubi
9 arch-viles
3 nightmare imps
3 nightmare cacodemons
15 nightmare demons
2 bruiser brothers
1 Angel of Death
1 Cyberdemon
1 Spider Mastermind
-- History ---------------------------------------------------
He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
On level 2 he entered Hell's Arena.
He cowardly fled the Arena.
On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
Level 12 was a hard nut to crack!
On level 16 he found the Tower of Babel!
He left level 17 as soon as possible.
On level 17 he invaded the Unholy Cathedral!
On level 17 he found the Longinus Spear!
He then destroyed the Unholy Cathedral!
He left level 18 as soon as possible.
On level 19 he entered the Vaults.
He came, he saw, but he left.
On level 21 he stumbled into a nightmare demon cave!
Then at last he found Dis!
On level 24 he finally defeated the Mastermind.
-- Messages --------------------------------------------------
You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
taste blood!
You need to taste blood!
You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
taste blood!
You need to taste blood!
You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
taste blood!
You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You're going
berserk! You need to taste blood!
You need to taste blood!
You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
taste blood!
You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind dies. Congratulations!
You defeated the Spider Mastermind! Press <Enter>...
Next!
-- General ---------------------------------------------------
52 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
36 of those were killed.
1 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
And 4 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.
11 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
7 killed the bitch and survived.
4 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Nightmare is a game mode that mostly lends itself to fast play. 100% runs are a LOT harder than just charging your way through with hellrunner and berserker. Melee builds are also somewhat favoured.
That said, I play almost exclusively on nightmare, and I do it methodically and extremely patiently. Learning enough about corpse disposal and enemy interactions will get you to a point where you can near 50% win rates, but you really have your work cut out for you tactically. You need every trick in the book.
I'd also recommend you become very familiar with cornershooting, giftdropping (you already know these), tagging, and standing on corpses. Once you can get away with general combat on a level, you can start devising tactics for special levels. The anomoly, for example, is one I've found easiest by rocket jumping to the *left* (towards the starting room) after the ambush is triggered, fighting until you've led most of the monsters towards you and can't survive in the starting room any longer, and THEN using a phase device. There's much, much less chance of appearing in the middle of a bunch of enemies.
I thought I'd ask since I actually remembered, does anyone know what it means when the Mastermind flinches? I mean, mechanically in the game.This means that Spidey took a hard enough damage from a single hit, and loses its next action. Note that since her speed is 150%, she can still act before you do, unless you are fast enough yourself.
... in his guide ...Make it "in her guide" ;) (you probably couldn't have known, of course).
So, I managed to finally beat N! for the first time ever! Thanks for all your help, guys. It's not that much of an achievement, really, but it's a start.Don't downplay your achievement. Winning on N! is very much an achievement, even if you with your skillevel think it's not.
This means that Spidey took a hard enough damage from a single hit, and loses its next action. Note that since her speed is 150%, she can still act before you do, unless you are fast enough yourself.Huh, that's what I would've guessed off the top of my head - though that sounded borderline broken so I didn't really think that was it.
Make it "in her guide" ;) (you probably couldn't have known, of course).
Huh, that's what I would've guessed off the top of my head - though that sounded borderline broken so I didn't really think that was it.IMHO, it's only "broken" for builds that can stunlock Spidey (i.e. can make her flinch consistently and fast enough).
One thing i've gained from the replies so far is that N! Games seem to depend on RNG factors - or massive feats of skill (Getting the RL from N! HA to do the hellgate, for example) to be completed with any amount of consistency. Is that correct? (Obviously skill helps, but i'm talking about doing very ~diamond level stuff on a regular basis to...essentially consistantly complete a ~platinum level standard win.)
The way Berserker works is pretty consistant - the effect lasts for 20 turns and if you melee attack four times in a row you will definitely go berserk. Sometimes it's less than four, which depends on how many enemies are in LOS, I think.
This is amazingly helpful. I knew about the large damage proc of berserk - but not specific numbers, and the fact that it lasts 20 turns (This doesn't get a bonus on N! or such to like, 30 actions or what have you, right?) and procs after 4 attacks - even low damage ones - is really valuable...
Hey, I've done that (https://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6517.msg56932.html#msg56932)!
Yeah, be very careful with nukes, kids.
I'm not sure if instant actions count as a turn for them, I'll have to check that out later using Juggler, but I know that even 0.1 second actions use up a full turn.
So, I managed to finally beat N! for the first time ever! Thanks for all your help, guys. It's not that much of an achievement, really, but it's a start.
Haha, that's fair enough! I'm curious to know *how* he does it, but i'll take what I can get!
I have theories, but nothing I should probably post publicly. ;)
I've still been waiting for an explanation on this one:
https://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6149.msg53679.html#msg53679
Damageless, but...pulled an acid lever on level 3, which is way too early to have boots, env suit, or invulnerability. Or at least it was in that version. Otherwise pulling the lever results in instant damage on that turn
:)
I better shut up before moderators get on me about ataying on topic
IMHO, it's only "broken" for builds that can stunlock Spidey (i.e. can make her flinch consistently and fast enough).I don't know, wouldn't basically any melee build with a Ripper be able to pull that off?
The only builds that I can think of are Berserker builds with a chainsword at least (and those have to get in melee range first), and SoG5 Sharpshooters (SoG4 could probably work as well, with something better than a standard pistol, SoG3 would be too slow). Huge-damage weapons need to reload too often to be consistent.
Me I've personally only beaten it on HMP several times, but never on UV, so I'd say to me winning on N! seems impossible and very much worthy of achievement. ^^
Yeah, pretty much. Being highly skilled will usually get you far in N!, but you'll still get screwed over by bad luck from time to time. I'd say it takes a combination of skill and luck.
Congrats on your N! win! :D And two Platinum badges! Well done! :D And yeah, a Blademaster stair-dive is arguably one of the easier methods of winning a N! game, but still, it's quite an achievement! :)
I have theories, but nothing I should probably post publicly. ;)
I better shut up before moderators get on me about ataying on topic
As an extension question - how do you complete no damage/speed challenges? Now, obviously you can kite the Angel of Death around the UC - that's no big deal if you have enough movespeed and combat knives (Or you are confident in timing your steps and attacks). And taking on enemies 1v1 damageless is also suitably easy given you have some form of cover or high movespeed. But how are you supposed to do this with multiple enemies?
Now, obviously we can't all be Neo, er, TwoDev, but I don't understand in what way he (and others! Credit where credit is due) performs some of the challenges he does - and in very little time, at that! A recent AoMs YAAM of mine gave me the line " He played for 2 hours, 35 minutes and 8 seconds.", and i'd consider that fairly fast!
In what way do you go about doing challenges like this? Things like the higher level gatekeeper badges, clearing the mortuary without damage, etc.
I understand it is supposed to be difficult, but I don't understand what basic tactics or the method you would go about doing these kinds of things. Having random creatures fireball you out of the blue happens to me more often then not unless I camp - which doesn't work on these kinds of challenges. And the Gatekeeper just seems flat out impossible, given i've never gone to the bruiser brothers without a significant paddling.
I don't know, wouldn't basically any melee build with a Ripper be able to pull that off?You're right, even if this means a heavy trait investment for WK2 (2 traits if you're a Technician, 4 if you're not), and a bit of luck with finding the mods.
Just remembered something else I've been wondering about for a while, how much damage does Lost Souls actually deal? I just remember checking the wiki long ago and upon seeing the numbers there just said "BS". Most likely those numbers are from before the update that changed their AI and stats.Again you're correct. I updated the Wiki page.
Actually, in my original post I did ask about how people perform stuff like this (and i'm still curious!):
*Tormuse contemplates how to reply to this*Tormuse, you have videos showing how you do this stuff...
Tormuse, you have videos showing how you do this stuff...
And now that I've probably damned myself by breaking a sacred rule of the forums, I might as well go ahead and say that the way to wield the Dragonslayer is... *Tormuse is suddenly sucked into an unholy void*I admit that made me giggle loudly. Thanks Tormuse, now everyone at work thinks I'm weirder than they already did.
I might as well go ahead and say that the way to wield the Dragonslayer is...
It was something that did nag me a bit (and consequently prevented me from playing on N! - especially the bit about Nightmare not having a luck factor.
*dispells unholy vortex*
I think you're fine, as long as you promise to not finish that sentence you started. Welcome back, Tormuse!
For a starting point, I'd recommend a quick read of the 'corpse disposal' section in my guide here:
http://sylph.me.uk/2%20games/doomrl/DoomRLGuide.txt
Edit: oh, and it seems the guide does not promote Malicious Blades master trait enough. It's really good, i swear :)I'll agree with that one. While it prevents you from getting Berserker and Tough as Nails, combined with a decent armor or two it will make you practically immortal against anything that isn't Plasma or Acid. In my experience, Spideys tend to be the hardest to deal with since unless you've managed to get a really good base for a Cerberus armor (Onyx :P) or just found a really neat piece of armor you're basically relying on dodge and tactics to avoid damage from them, which is harder because of their low base dodge chance and their rapid fire nature. Commandoes and Captains pose similar problems because they're rapid fire, but tend to be easier to deal with. Barons and Knights tend to be easier in my experience since they're easier to trick into melee range, where they'll deal no damage.. And the fact that unless there's a ton of them you can just dodge into melee range. Just having any kind of Red armor or better makes anything dealing fire damage a pushover, which basically means the only things you fear are inopportune hordes, bad spawns or other factors you have little control over.
Edit: oh, and it seems the guide does not promote Malicious Blades master trait enough. It's really good, i swear :)Most of the guide was written when malicious blades (and classes) wasn't a thing. I think by the time classes and all the new master traits were released, I was already in diamond runs and didn't have much chance to play with MB.
As for further tips, Horos, maybe I can make another recording to further answer your questions? Is there a particular challenge you'd like to see me do?
Malicious Blades
Vampyre
Vampyre:
I've used this a lot in lower difficulties for fun but because it blocks hellrunner (A trait that I find quite important on UV - and consequently N!) i've never considered taking it in a serious game on a higher difficulty. Is it worth taking? How do you adapt to the slower movespeed, especially on N! (Assuming it's worth taking, that is)
I've see this recommended a lot, actually. Is losing Berserker really worth it? I've personally *never* taken a build with it. It has some great utility clearly, (does the 50% resistance give you less knockback vs sergeants?) especially versus arch-viles, but you lose the great perks that come with berserking. I'll keep an open mind, but could someone detail the benefits for me? Seems like in the cases where i'd appreciate the damage resistance i'd rather take a big hit and go berserk and then smack everything up.The biggest problem with Berserk is the lack of flexibility, and how screwed you are if you end up in a bad spot. Berserk will never proc from the attacks of most enemies, and even some that may often have to roll in the higher ranges to cause you to go berserk. This problem is even bigger for Marines with their higher health pool (they need a 20 damage hit instead of 16 to go Berserk). Out of all the regular enemies only Barons, Revenants, Mancubuses and Arch-Viles are able to make you go berserk. Out of those the only reliable source is the Arch-Vile, who is guaranteed to make you go berserk unless you increase your maximum health above 60. All the others have an average damage below the threshhold, the baron being the worst case (they do 4-20 damage).
If you really wanted to record something, perhaps a guide to all of the special levels.
That reminds me, the description of the MB trait on the wiki is incorrect, it gives you 75% Melee resistance.Description fixed on the Wiki.
Also MMB fire protection extends to feet too. Lava diving is still not recommended, but not longer deadly.Right, I completely forgot about that. It's kind of hilarious since I would sometimes find myself taking more damage from wading through acid than lava.
If you really wanted to record something, perhaps a guide to all of the special levels. I know the two that people I show/get to play the game and seem to have trouble with the most on lower difficulties are Hell's Arena and Phobos Lab, so if you wanted to record something in a general case perhaps those two on N! would be great.
Please don't feel obligated to do so, though - i'd rather an effort like a recording go towards helping out the community at large rather then just myself. I do appreciate the thought a lot though - you're very kind.
I've see [Malicious Blades] recommended a lot, actually. Is losing Berserker really worth it? I've personally *never* taken a build with it. It has some great utility clearly, (does the 50% resistance give you less knockback vs sergeants?) especially versus arch-viles, but you lose the great perks that come with berserking. I'll keep an open mind, but could someone detail the benefits for me? Seems like in the cases where i'd appreciate the damage resistance i'd rather take a big hit and go berserk and then smack everything up.
I've used [Vampyre] a lot in lower difficulties for fun but because it blocks hellrunner (A trait that I find quite important on UV - and consequently N!) i've never considered taking it in a serious game on a higher difficulty. Is it worth taking? How do you adapt to the slower movespeed, especially on N! (Assuming it's worth taking, that is)
I'm not very familiar with everyone's Nightmare strategies, but I doubt that many of the special levels on N! are ever worth it even for master players - unless you're going for a badge that requires you to complete one of the harder ones...
Also MMB fire protection extends to feet too. Lava diving is still not recommended, but not longer deadly.
I almost always play N! runs as conquerer...
I've always thought this is hilarious! :D I guess your character is so skilled at waving knives around that they can deflect the lava away from touching your feet? How does that work? :P
I almost always play N! runs as conquerer. I think the special levels are a really interesting exercise in strategic thought. :(
Wow... I still remember the days when I had no idea it was possible to get Conqueror in N! How times change, eh? :)
Are there any special levels (beyond the ones where corpse management is trivial, like Skulls and Carnage) where you feel that you come out in better shape than you went in with, or is it entirely the desire for Conqueror that makes you do them?Military Base. Just open one of the two middle doors in the starting area, kill the two guards outside, drop a medpack in the doorway and kill them all in melee range. Depending on how patient you are you might risk taking slightly more damage than necessary, but in general you shouldn't take much at all.
You leech health from respawning enemies. :P
The biggest problem with Berserk is the lack of flexibility, and how screwed you are if you end up in a bad spot. Berserk will never proc from the attacks of most enemies, and even some that may often have to roll in the higher ranges to cause you to go berserk.
tl;dr version:
Pros: big survivability boost all of the time, melee damage output is consistent so you don't play like you're on timer. 4 out of 6 trait requirements you want anyway.
Cons: less damage for pure melee builds, much harder to get MMB on AoB, no EE/Intuition.
I almost always play N! runs as conquerer. I think the special levels are a really interesting exercise in strategic thought. :(
Well, I kind of already have a couple videos of me completing Hell's Arena at Nightmare! They come in two flavours: Pistols (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMUk4LrVieE) and shotguns. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9NMUeKYq0A) :D And if you click the "show more" button on the description, you'll see I included some handy-dandy buttons that navigate to the start of each of the special levels. I put those in all of my videos for the convenience of anyone who doesn't feel like watching the whole video. :) (It contains a link to the Chaosforge thread where I talk about the run too) The second video also includes Phobos Lab.
Awww, well, you're part of the community too, aren't you? :)
The forums have been so quiet lately that I can't tell if anyone has been watching my videos
Arachnotrons might still do a bit of damage, but you'll still be going fast enough to dodge most of it.
And let's not forget that MB lets you wield and hit with two Chainswords at once! :D
It's also prudent to take cover and lure enemies over to you whenever possible; getting caught in the open without Hellrunner is not fun with any build. :| In short, Vampyre is most definitely worth taking in N! games. :)
Knife stilts, my dude.
Indeed. Hearing that it's your preferred way of playing N! is quite surprising and might embolden me to take a crack at it some time. It's a shame that none of the badges/medals really encourage it - over things that are literally impossible, like damageless N!, no less.
Are there any special levels (beyond the ones where corpse management is trivial, like Skulls and Carnage) where you feel that you come out in better shape than you went in with, or is it entirely the desire for Conqueror that makes you do them?
Military Base. Just open one of the two middle doors in the starting area, kill the two guards outside, drop a medpack in the doorway and kill them all in melee range. Depending on how patient you are you might risk taking slightly more damage than necessary, but in general you shouldn't take much at all.
I've always thought this is hilarious! :D I guess your character is so skilled at waving knives around that they can deflect the lava away from touching your feet? How does that work? :PExcuse my leet paint skillz, but just for fun i imagine it works like this:
I always do try and sidestep volley-fire enemies like commandos and chaingunners but most of their volleys hit me anyway (Unlike my plasma rifles, which always seem to miss :P). Is this something innate to volley fire and dodge chance?Yes and no. I'd advice you to take a look at Dodging (http://"https://drl.chaosforge.org/wiki/Dodging") on the wiki. Certain kinds of projectiles are easier to dodge than others, and distance plays a part in it aswell. That said, Pistols and Chainguns are among the harder to dodge followed by Arachnotrons and Plasma rifles. Add that to the fact that they fire multiple shots, you're unlikely to dodge everything even when maxed out on Hellrunner unless you're a great distance away from the source. Because of that they tend to be the worst kinds of enemies to run into in an open space (especially Spideys since the others can still be disposed of fairly easily).
Excuse my leet paint skillz, but just for fun i imagine it works like this:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If by "better shape" you mean more health, then that eliminates most levels
[...]
the Wall/Containment Area has no healing and really tough enemies, but unique rewards that I personally find very helpful for my playstyle.
Better than most of my artwork. :P I'm still trying to figure out what the brown thing up top is, though.Was supposed to be rocket launcher aimed backwards. Alas it seems like i failed.
Are there any special levels (beyond the ones where corpse management is trivial, like Skulls and Carnage) where you feel that you come out in better shape than you went in with, or is it entirely the desire for Conqueror that makes you do them?
(And if you're tough enough to take on Hell's Arena, CC+ is comparatively easy)Teach me your ways! :P
Was supposed to be rocket launcher aimed backwards. Alas it seems like i failed.
Teach me your ways! :P
City of Skulls is basically only worth if for shotgun builds, as they can "easily" deal with the swarms of Lost Souls. The Mortuary (and Limbo) scare the everliving crap out of me and I don't even play Nightmare :/Vampyre builds and MB builds carrying a shotgun can usually deal with City of Skulls.
City of Skulls is basically only worth if for shotgun builds, as they can "easily" deal with the swarms of Lost Souls. The Mortuary (and Limbo) scare the everliving crap out of me and I don't even play Nightmare :/
I'm right there with you... I haven't achieved Explorer, much less Conqueror, on ANY difficulty, to say nothing of N!.
Teach me your ways! :P
I'm right there with you... I haven't achieved Explorer, much less Conqueror, on ANY difficulty, to say nothing of N!.
I've been following this thread without really contributing since my initial posts - it's all quite interesting, but way over my head.
You have more opportunities for corpse disposal (four doorways and lots of pools of lava, as opposed to Hell's Arena which just has... a single staircase and every other corpse has to be stacked)
And I would put City of Skulls in the always beneficial category[...]
- Chained court + is close to a deathtrap, but the modpacks and staff are great later on, so it's a 'die now or be strong later', and the extra experience often pushes me into enough experience to get hellrunner in time for phobos lab!
You can't do that while Sereging! =P
if you're tough enough to complete Hell's Arena, you're definitely tough enough to deal with CC+, so that would be on my "Always Beneficial" list.
- Unholy Cathedral. This is great for melee characters, and possible for most non-melee character, but certainly not worth it - you will be expending modpacks and maybe even traits specifically to get your character able to, and your reward is a melee weapon and some experience! For ranged characters with juggler I'd not-worth-it . Without juggler it's awful! For melee characters it's incredible.It is indeed too unrewarding for non-melee builds. With all that melee theme of this special level I think that a couple of berserk packs can be added as a reward in the final room both to make the start of next level easier (and so adding incentive to visit UC even if you are not melee) and to give non-melees a chance to use the weapons they can find there!
- Spider's Lair - Absolute deathtrap. Nice reward (particularly the energy cell pack), but yeah, deathtrap.
Am I the only one with an unresistable urge to clear any of the special levels I encounter unless its is obviously impossible or i had a strategy beforehand that involved skipping specific levels?Nope, you and me both. I have this irresistable urge to blue every level, even normal ones.
Am I the only one with an unresistable urge to clear any of the special levels I encounter unless its is obviously impossible or i had a strategy beforehand that involved skipping specific levels?
On N! The arena is easy to conquer because of the decent cover. CC+ features *awful* cover. There's nowhere you can pillbox without being attacked from an odd angle, and if you try to stay in the starting room to use the doors and laval as corpse disposal, you have a *huge* chance of losing your chainsaw / berserk packs to a wandering baron (I watched your pistol video thinking about this all the way up until it actually happened). I was well impressed at your victory there, and I think I'm perhaps taking a little too long over it, but my general strategy for the level seems reasonably robust, albeit losing me 6-ish rockets and a couple of medpacks! It's nothing like the arena though - I can almost guarantee completing the arena, the chained court + always feels like it has wildcards, and the modpack/chainsaw reward is nowhere near as important as the rocket launcher (which I require for CC+, phobos lab, and anomaly). I really struggle without the arena rocket launcher, whereas I don't feel things are that different if I skip the CC+.