Chaosforge Forum
DoomRL => Discussion => Topic started by: Kornel Kisielewicz on January 18, 2011, 04:51
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Quite recently someone asked if anyone uses Cateye anymore, and that made me think whether the Master Traits we have are balanced... Hence the poll to judge their popularity (to see which ones need to be boosted).
If you always go for Ammochain or other trait, please select one option only, if you do various builds often, please choose up to three!
Of course, the topic is open for a discussion, so please also post with what you voted and why!
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FireAngel was never my main pick, but back before the criteria changed it was a favorite for AoPc. I think having masters that appeal only to specific challenges is okay, but that aspect could skew your poll.
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Vampyre, because it makes AoB possible, and I scarcely play outside it anymore. Blademaster is also fine, though, for lower difficulties.
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I found Cat Eye + Intuition combo quite useful in my AoImpatience runs, where seeing enemy before he can see you adds a huge advantage - and wasting ammo usage is not that important as you don't need to carry those useless medikits :) .
A lot of masteries are challenge dependant and this may affect poll, like yaflhdztioxo already mentioned.
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For the most part, I tend only to master-build when going shotty (which is quite often). Since there aren't a lot of options when it comes to shotgun-oriented builds, Army of the Dead and Fireangel give you something very powerful to work toward. Of the two, MFa is my build of choice on Nightmare!, while MAD is often used on the easier difficulties (excepting defense-heavy challenges).
Otherwise, the only master-build I consider using is Ammochain, barring the occasional play of AoB or other unusual challenges. The Chained Court makes it way too easy to get agility mods, which corrects the one major flaw of a MAc build: lack of accuracy. I've mentioned multiple solutions in the past to change it up (such as to randomize the mods given, or randomize to include exotics as well) and I think it would make many people think twice before committing.
As for the others:
- Melee masters are obviously going to be used in a melee build and very rarely anything else.
- Gun Kata only comes in handy if you find a unique pistol or plenty of mods, otherwise you're lacking damage on the later floors. This is to say that leveling SoB, instead, is a less risky strategy but will assume a more experienced playstyle (as Gun Kata is great for dodging).
- That I don't pick Cateye is probably a personal preference more than anything, coming from whether or not I consider Intx2 a viable option. It has uses in certain cases, but EE -> EE -> Int -> Int only makes economic sense if you're playing a rapid-fire build (only the chaingun/plasma rifle would ever need +4-to-hit) and Ammochain lets you fire all you want into the dark anyway. If I wasn't expecting to level up a lot, I'd use it, but most games I can hit lvl12 without trying, and as high as 16 on UV games. Often Intuition tells you things that a veteran can intuit without its vision (go figure).
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Hey, little question, I only want to see the results of the poll. Does just clicking submit without checking anything affect the those?
EDIT: Oh, whoops, just found the "view results" button to the right. Never mind. :P
EDIT2: It doesn't work. :|
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Army of the Dead/Ammochain - The two that are most relevant to the average run through hell.
Gun Kata - The most fun trait.
Blademaster - Doesn't really synergise with the melee strategy, underpowered compared to the alternative. Should be reworked from the ground up if necessary.
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Vampyre - I'll find any excuse to take vampyre. I used a decent amount in 0.9.9.0 to get some of the non-melee platinums and diamonds.
Ammochain - Definitely for AoMC, sometimes for Ao100, but even then I lean towards Intx2. Good for a few challenges, only average in most cases.
Army of the Dead - Good for shotgun centric games, so I'll always take it for AoSh, nothing else though.
Fireangel - I remember liking it in 0.9.9.0, but I didn't take it a lot, I haven't used it in 0.9.9.1.
Gun Kata - I've only ever used it during AoMr, but I can't tell if it's better than SoBx3.
Blademaster - It's the one master trait I've never used. I'd try it in Ao100 if whizkid worked on melee weapons.
Cateye - I never cared for cateye, even when it was just an advanced trait. Honestly I think Intx2 should be the master trait and cateye should go back to an advanced one.
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Army of the Dead, hands down; but that's because I favour Shotgun-centric play 90% of the time.
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Gun Kata - I've only ever used it during AoMr, but I can't tell if it's better than SoBx3.
Blademaster - It's the one master trait I've never used. I'd try it in Ao100 if whizkid worked on melee weapons.
Gun Kata used to rule supreme for pistol builds, but after the Dodgemaster trait was "fixed" to only dodge the first attack, it became severely weakened. This, coupled with the fact that all monsters past HNTR are faster than before (and more accurate), makes Gun Kata less effective than an SoBx3 build.
Blademaster is fun to play if you are good at dodging. Again, this is affected by the "fix" on Dodgemaster, which makes playing Blademaster more perilious than Vampyre.
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Well I only picked ammochain for the obvious reasons though I would also pick;
Blademaster, I really love the speed for AoB, I'd really like if it could give you a cleave ability or some more speed to your movement aswell.
Fireangel is pretty perfect aswell and I use it sometimes for more trickier badge huntings.
Personaly I think cateye should have some other uses aswell, 2 more sight radious alone doesn't make it that great, though with intuation it becomes easy mode.
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As a pistol fiend who really values speed over brute force, MGK is hardly the most powerful Master Trait, but for me, it certainly is one of the most fun to play with.
With a close second is FireAngel, so fun to just tear through, both shotgun and rocket launcher blazing with more explosions ripping off around you than Bruce Willice in a Die Hard Film. YippieKayayeye!
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Army of the Dead for me for sure, i just feel much better, knowing i can kill nearly everything with my shotty
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Master Traits? What?
Give me TaNx3, Bad, SoBx3, Irox3 with a dash of HR, Fin or EE any day
Edit: My love of stat modifiers prevents me from ever accepting a "Blocked Trait" curse
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Cateye - I never cared for cateye, even when it was just an advanced trait. Honestly I think Intx2 should be the master trait and cateye should go back to an advanced one.
If Cateye = Computer Map with/without increased vision, I'd try it for sure!
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I almost always work toward an Ammochain build, unless I'm playing an Angel that restricts the type of gameplay it works for.
I also included Gun Kata and Army of the Dead in the vote - I've had more success with AoMr then any other Angel type, due largely to Gun Kata; and Army of the Dead is my preferred AoSh Master trait.
Then again, I'm still just beginning to play, so I have alot to learn about more advanced tactics.
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Oldish post, and now that 0.9.9.2 has come out, a few things may have changed a bit........
1: Ammo-chain. It's overpowered in it's synergy. It's too customizable. With 1 level of experience offset (for Juggler) it's too easy to overcome any situation without thought. Now with advanced assemblies it's even better. The only problem is........ it's friggin fantastic. In any game of DoomRL you never know what you're going to get. With Ammochain you do. You get a good (great) gun that doesn't need ammo. You get more backpack space because you can usually use all your mods straight away. You almost always get through the first few levels, even on N!, just because of shotgun juggling. It's just nice to know, you'll always be armed, always dish out damage, and will usually have some pretty spiffy armour to back you up. This just gets better with assemblies in the new version.
2: AotD. Shotguns, what's not to like? Area effect, no item destruction, corner shooting shotguns. And armour piercing shotguns at that. While some of the build seems a little redundant once you have it (Reloaderx2) the beauty of a power modded shotty is amazing. Any power modded shotty. You get good armour, never have to worry about just when to grab health, and a single/double/combat-barrel full of kick-arse. I haven't gotten around to trying out the new elephant gun, but it just makes this build even more beautiful. BOOM-click-click...........
3: Vampyre. It gets you SO many badges. It gets you SO many ranks. It changes the way you play the game. Running is a way of life, doors and spare green armour your friend. It's a totally different game, and it teaches you how to play the game with any other build, safely. Between being berserk most of the time, having good armour anyway, regen'ing health as you kill, doing sweet H2H damage and allowing you to have all this while still firing bullets is amazing. On AoB it's great. On just a normal game it kind of makes it a cake-walk sometimes. With one question, do you want to gun or do you want to run. And kill, Kill, KILL!!!!
For 0.9.9.2 I can see a few real standouts though. They've been considered a bit weaker up until now, and you now need to hope for mods (new Chained Courts runs essential), but Blademaster and Fireangle should be all the more powerful now. For two reasons. Tactical armour and boots. 40% faster regen'ing armour, with nice anti-knockback. How fast are you running/dodging? That's fast.
Of course, Vampyre might go a bit spastic with the chainsaw/mods/tactical armour or chainsword thing from the Chained Court in any case. What Arena Master??????
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Oldish post, and now that 0.9.9.2 has come out, a few things may have changed a bit........
1: Ammo-chain.
A bit off-topic, but I'm thinking the best way to balance that might be to just remove the "infinite ammo" bit. No need to reload, but you'll still have to provide ammo.
Much like MaiZure, I've lately stopped going for Master Traits most of the time unless I'm in a challenge game. But when I do, I prefer Dos Equis Army of the Dead, Ammochain, and Gun Kata. AotD with the Elephant Gun is something I've been meaning to try.
Most of the time, though, I've been beelining for Whizkid, then working on other general-use skills based on what I've found - SoB if I'm using a Chaingun, SoG if I have a good pistol, or Reloader or defensive stuff for other weapons.