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Messages - horos

Pages: [1]
1
Discussion / Re: Nightmare advice?
« on: January 29, 2017, 01:03 »
You leech health from respawning enemies. :P

I sort of thought the lack of HR getting through the early levels would make it difficult, but...

...Yeah, now that I think about it, it sounds downright dirty. Heh.

Quote from: Minaro
The biggest problem with Berserk is the lack of flexibility, and how screwed you are if you end up in a bad spot. Berserk will never proc from the attacks of most enemies, and even some that may often have to roll in the higher ranges to cause you to go berserk.

Ah, this is pretty good stuff. I'm totally not giving it a go on my next run.

However...Wouldn't it be ridiculous on AoB-

tl;dr version:
Pros: big survivability boost all of the time, melee damage output is consistent so you don't play like you're on timer. 4 out of 6 trait requirements you want anyway.
Cons: less damage for pure melee builds, much harder to get MMB on AoB, no EE/Intuition.

Ah. Yeah, thought so.

Although, that brings up an interesting point. See, I always associated Malicious Blades with "Melee Master Traits" - that is, "You're whacking stuff with the nearest available object! Guns are for wusses!". I never considered actually taking it as part of a utility build - and now i'm starting to understand what the technician class offers (over the brute strength of the Marine class and the ability of the Scout class to recover from bad positions). It seems to put you at a disadvantage early game though (Especially with the 10% speed penalty, but that's mitigated where you can take HR) but gives you a unique advantage mid/late game. Just because a trait is labelled as "xyz master trait" doesn't mean it strictly has to be so - and you don't strictly have to fight with one combat style if taking a master trait.

I also had a good chuckle about MMB giving you feet lava protection. That's practical (if nothing else) - I've lost count of the amount of times I end up cursing after having my only path blocked by a quick lava bath (That rockets won't fix).

I almost always play N! runs as conquerer. I think the special levels are a really interesting exercise in strategic thought. :(

Teach me your ways.

Well, I kind of already have a couple videos of me completing Hell's Arena at Nightmare!  They come in two flavours:  Pistols and shotguns.  :D  And if you click the "show more" button on the description, you'll see I included some handy-dandy buttons that navigate to the start of each of the special levels.  I put those in all of my videos for the convenience of anyone who doesn't feel like watching the whole video.  :)  (It contains a link to the Chaosforge thread where I talk about the run too)  The second video also includes Phobos Lab.

Hey, thanks! I took a quick peek (As i'm busy prepping for the start of courses tomorrow...don't tell anyone!) and I never thought of doing CC+ the way you did so (And have always struggled with it). It's helpful not just for corpse management, but you take a lot less damage, too. Now to see if I can actually pull it off (or something similar at least) next run I do - although I might try on UV first. :p

Graphics have spoiled me, i'm surprised I still understood the ASCII!

Quote
Awww, well, you're part of the community too, aren't you?  :)

Ah, I appreciate it! My time's come and gone, though.

Quote
The forums have been so quiet lately that I can't tell if anyone has been watching my videos

Probably because everyone's waiting on Jupiter Hell (And/or hoping quietly for another DoomRL release sometime!)

Quote
Arachnotrons might still do a bit of damage, but you'll still be going fast enough to dodge most of it.

I always do try and sidestep volley-fire enemies like commandos and chaingunners but most of their volleys hit me anyway (Unlike my plasma rifles, which always seem to miss :P). Is this something innate to volley fire and dodge chance?

Quote
And let's not forget that MB lets you wield and hit with two Chainswords at once!  :D

So MMB is basically this?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I can get behind that.

Quote
It's also prudent to take cover and lure enemies over to you whenever possible; getting caught in the open without Hellrunner is not fun with any build.  :|  In short, Vampyre is most definitely worth taking in N! games.  :)

So...A camping skill?

Sounds great. Count me in.

2
Discussion / Re: Nightmare advice?
« on: January 28, 2017, 02:14 »
As for further tips, Horos, maybe I can make another recording to further answer your questions?  Is there a particular challenge you'd like to see me do?

Given the recent situation I don't really feel the nagging need to get my 'skill' to the demonic/angelic badge level before feeling like i've accomplished anything. So in that regard, the advice i've been given is more then enough - after all, you're still at the mercy of the RNG even as the most experienced player.

If you really wanted to record something, perhaps a guide to all of the special levels. I know the two that people I show/get to play the game and seem to have trouble with the most on lower difficulties are Hell's Arena and Phobos Lab, so if you wanted to record something in a general case perhaps those two on N! would be great. As for me? Definitely Hell's Arena and the Anomaly on N! are the hardest (Well, considering you have to go through the latter every run, it feels like a chore without a rocket or a lucky phase device). Please don't feel obligated to do so, though - i'd rather an effort like a recording go towards helping out the community at large rather then just myself. I do appreciate the thought a lot though - you're very kind.

Quote
Malicious Blades

I've see this recommended a lot, actually. Is losing Berserker really worth it? I've personally *never* taken a build with it. It has some great utility clearly, (does the 50% resistance give you less knockback vs sergeants?) especially versus arch-viles, but you lose the great perks that come with berserking. I'll keep an open mind, but could someone detail the benefits for me? Seems like in the cases where i'd appreciate the damage resistance i'd rather take a big hit and go berserk and then smack everything up.

Quote
Vampyre

I've used this a lot in lower difficulties for fun but because it blocks hellrunner (A trait that I find quite important on UV - and consequently N!) i've never considered taking it in a serious game on a higher difficulty. Is it worth taking? How do you adapt to the slower movespeed, especially on N! (Assuming it's worth taking, that is)

Thanks again, all. I already mentioned this, but seeing the friendly discussion here really puts a smile on my face.

3
Discussion / Re: Nightmare advice?
« on: January 27, 2017, 04:50 »
Quote from: Tormuse
I might as well go ahead and say that the way to wield the Dragonslayer is...

As mentioned I do know how to wield the Dragonslayer:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I must thank both you and Sylph though. It was something that did nag me a bit (and consequently prevented me from playing on N! - especially the bit about Nightmare not having a luck factor. I feel like i've gained a lot of confidence just from that to try and grow on my own as a player now and try and develop my own strategies - er, even if the anomaly still terrifies me.

This entire topic has been a blast. As much as things are about to get really busy for me, I appreciate everyone's input, and do hope that it remains a useful resource for people in future :) It's a testament to the community here that I received helpful, meaningful and humorous responses when asking for help and not just generic "git gud" comments, as so much of the internet has degraded into now days. I thank each and every one of you.

4
Discussion / Re: Nightmare advice?
« on: January 25, 2017, 22:18 »
Been quite busy, and wow this topic has exploded, haha!

Quote from: Moonshine Fox
Me I've personally only beaten it on HMP several times, but never on UV, so I'd say to me winning on N! seems impossible and very much worthy of achievement. ^^

Good luck on your UV win! I personally found HMP harder then UV. You don't get any of the bonuses (Extra ammo) and Hell Knights, the main obstacle, can be gift dropped and cornershot, whereas from what I remember of HMP it's more lower monsters that spawn, which are more difficult. It's funny what being a camper does to you!

I appreciate the sentiment of your post though, and I would reflect it back at you and say never give up. I'm sure you'll get there and easily become a better player then me in no time.


Quote from: Tormuse
Yeah, pretty much.  Being highly skilled will usually get you far in N!, but you'll still get screwed over by bad luck from time to time.  I'd say it takes a combination of skill and luck.

I see, that's good to know. I feel slightly better then-

Quote
Congrats on your N! win!  :D  And two Platinum badges!  Well done!  :D  And yeah, a Blademaster stair-dive is arguably one of the easier methods of winning a N! game, but still, it's quite an achievement!  :)

Shush! I worked that out! :p

I would have attempted another run but fear of the anomaly is holding me back.

Quote
I have theories, but nothing I should probably post publicly.  ;)

Quote
I better shut up before moderators get on me about ataying on topic

Actually, in my original post I did ask about how people perform stuff like this (and i'm still curious!):

Quote
As an extension question - how do you complete no damage/speed challenges? Now, obviously you can kite the Angel of Death around the UC - that's no big deal if you have enough movespeed and combat knives (Or you are confident in timing your steps and attacks). And taking on enemies 1v1 damageless is also suitably easy given you have some form of cover or high movespeed. But how are you supposed to do this with multiple enemies?

Now, obviously we can't all be Neo, er, TwoDev, but I don't understand in what way he (and others! Credit where credit is due) performs some of the challenges he does - and in very little time, at that! A recent AoMs YAAM of mine gave me the line " He played for 2 hours, 35 minutes and 8 seconds.", and i'd consider that fairly fast!

In what way do you go about doing challenges like this? Things like the higher level gatekeeper badges, clearing the mortuary without damage, etc.

I understand it is supposed to be difficult, but I don't understand what basic tactics or the method you would go about doing these kinds of things. Having random creatures fireball you out of the blue happens to me more often then not unless I camp - which doesn't work on these kinds of challenges. And the Gatekeeper just seems flat out impossible, given i've never gone to the bruiser brothers without a significant paddling.

So I wouldn't really call it off topic, technically. But of course, that's for the mods to decide, even if it is part of the original post!

5
Discussion / Re: Nightmare advice?
« on: January 23, 2017, 08:24 »
Woah, this topic blew up quickly while I was busy!

First, i'd just like to post this here:

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 horos, level 10 Hell Baron 2nd Lieutenant Scout,
 defeated the Mastermind at the City of Dis.
 He survived 377516 turns and scored 379849 points.
 He played for 56 minutes and 1 second.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 473 out of 968 hellspawn. (48%)

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 11
  Levels visited   : 4
  Levels completed : 1

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Cyberdemon's Head
  UAC Star (bronze cluster)
  UAC Platinum Badge
  Longinus Platinum Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  #########................................##################
  ########...............####...............#################
  #######.......####.....####.....####.......################
  ######........####.....####.....####........###############
  #####.........####.....####.....####.........##############
  ####..........####..............####..........#############
  ###............................................############
  ###....####............................####....############
  ###...&####............................####....############
  ###....####............................####....############
  ###....####...................%........####....############
  ###...........................X................############
  ####..........####..............####..........#############
  #####.........####.....####.....####.........##############
  ######........####.....####.....####........###############
  #######.......####.....####.....####.......################
  ########...............####...............#################
  #########................................##################
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 31/50   Experience 49250/10
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +6  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +9

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Scout

    Hellrunner       (Level 2)
    Brute            (Level 3)
    Berserker        (Level 1)
    Dodgemaster      (Level 1)
    Intuition        (Level 2)
    Blademaster      (Level 1)

  Bru->Bru->Ber->HR->HR->Bru->MBm->Int->DM->Int->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   red armor [4/4] (85%)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   Longinus Spear (8d8)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   protective boots [2/2] (79%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   shotgun (8d3) [1/1]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] rocket launcher (6d6) [1/1]
    [b] ballistic vest [1/1] (84%)
    [c] chainsaw (4d7) (P)
    [d] shotgun shell (x28)
    [e] shotgun shell (x50)
    [f] shotgun shell (x50)
    [g] shotgun shell (x50)
    [h] shotgun shell (x50)
    [i] shotgun shell (x50)
    [j] small med-pack
    [k] large med-pack
    [l] large med-pack
    [m] large med-pack
    [n] large med-pack
    [o] large med-pack
    [p] agility mod pack
    [q] steel boots [1/1] (100%)
    [r] shell box (x100)

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Bullet     - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Melee      - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Shrapnel   - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Acid       - internal 85%   torso 85%   feet 95% 
    Fire       - internal 85%   torso 95%   feet 85% 
    Plasma     - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    80 former humans
    60 former sergeants
    29 former captains
    121 imps
    29 demons
    53 lost souls
    18 cacodemons
    8 hell knights
    12 barons of hell
    3 arachnotrons
    7 former commandos
    1 pain elemental
    17 mancubi
    9 arch-viles
    3 nightmare imps
    3 nightmare cacodemons
    15 nightmare demons
    2 bruiser brothers
    1 Angel of Death
    1 Cyberdemon
    1 Spider Mastermind

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 2 he entered Hell's Arena.
  He cowardly fled the Arena.
  On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
  On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
  Level 12 was a hard nut to crack!
  On level 16 he found the Tower of Babel!
  He left level 17 as soon as possible.
  On level 17 he invaded the Unholy Cathedral!
  On level 17 he found the Longinus Spear!
  He then destroyed the Unholy Cathedral!
  He left level 18 as soon as possible.
  On level 19 he entered the Vaults.
  He came, he saw, but he left.
  On level 21 he stumbled into a nightmare demon cave!
  Then at last he found Dis!
  On level 24 he finally defeated the Mastermind.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
 taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
 taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
 taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You're going
 berserk! You need to taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
 taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind dies. Congratulations!
 You defeated the Spider Mastermind! Press <Enter>...
 Next!

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 52 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 36 of those were killed.
 1 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 4 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 11 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 7 killed the bitch and survived.
 4 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------

So, I managed to finally beat N! for the first time ever! Thanks for all your help, guys. It's not that much of an achievement, really, but it's a start.

I tried not to rely on RNG, and I tried to keep track of turn counts as well. (100 turns for a berserk pack..? Or something around there, and 20 turns off a proc.) I did get pretty lucky with medpack drops at the end, since I was hovering around 3 for most of the game, and once got down to none.

Even when I got to the UC - even though i was invincible through that fight so I didn't waste any HP - the game wasn't won at that point. There were still a lot of really bad spawns (No armour, I picked up that red one on the very last level) where i'd be surrounded by 3 packs of 2xV with loads of sergeants, commandos, and mancubi (I hate those things so much!). So it relied on me trying to be flung around the room while berserk and try to get to the stairs ASAP (and perhaps getting a few kills along the way, if a group of helpless mobs are there and I can proc a berserk off them) using the scout stair sense. I think it would be a lot more difficult as a technician or a marine - being a scout reduced the number of double actions a lot, too.

There was one level - perhaps a hellish city? I'm not quite sure of the level type name - where there were a bunch of rooms surrounded by lava, so I took my time cornershooting and making sure to finish corpses into the lava. This didn't work with Vs very often considering how fast they are (And their melee attack hurts!), but luckily there was only around 5-6 on that level. It was worth it, as I got a nice supercharge and berserk right next to the stairs as my reward.

The anamoly was the most stressful part, for sure. I lost my berserk right before going into it, so I smacked a barrel next to the stairs (and got a proc, thank you Thomas!) and went down. I had the fortune of a phase device - not a rocket launcher - and it took me next to the bruiser brothers. From there it was a simple matter of gibbing them and getting some berserk turns, then going back and killing all the nightmare enemies in the doorway as they came out. Given that I found and used a phase device, i'm not entirely satisfied with how this run went. It feels like a fluke and not a step forward towards consistency.

That said though, a win is a win, no matter how undeserving, and i'm very thankful for all your help!

Quote from: Sylph
Nightmare is a game mode that mostly lends itself to fast play. 100% runs are a LOT harder than just charging your way through with hellrunner and berserker. Melee builds are also somewhat favoured.

That said, I play almost exclusively on nightmare, and I do it methodically and extremely patiently. Learning enough about corpse disposal and enemy interactions will get you to a point where you can near 50% win rates, but you really have your work cut out for you tactically. You need every trick in the book.

I'd also recommend you become very familiar with cornershooting, giftdropping (you already know these), tagging, and standing on corpses. Once you can get away with general combat on a level, you can start devising tactics for special levels. The anomoly, for example, is one I've found easiest by rocket jumping to the *left* (towards the starting room) after the ambush is triggered, fighting until you've led most of the monsters towards you and can't survive in the starting room any longer, and THEN using a phase device. There's much, much less chance of appearing in the middle of a bunch of enemies.

Thanks a ton for this! I'm glad that it's possible to play through N! methodically and patiently, and it's not required to rambo through every time (Er, sorry Sereg...). 50% win rate is consistant enough given that I reset the beginning level, so i'll aim for that - in the very, very long term.

I do have to dash for now, but i'll check out your guide. I gave the first bit a quick look over and it covers stuff in a well written and precise way - perfect for me to show some friends just starting out now. Once again, I appreciate it!

6
Discussion / Re: Nightmare advice?
« on: January 22, 2017, 00:00 »
Woah! Didn't expect 2 replies so quickly, haha.

Here's some more information about Berserker:
The way Berserker works is pretty consistant - the effect lasts for 20 turns and if you melee attack four times in a row you will definitely go berserk. Sometimes it's less than four, which depends on how many enemies are in LOS, I think. This effect will help out if you climb down stairs and end up right next to a big enemy or a large group of them.

This is amazingly helpful. I knew about the large damage proc of berserk - but not specific numbers, and the fact that it lasts 20 turns (This doesn't get a bonus on N! or such to like, 30 actions or what have you, right?) and procs after 4 attacks - even low damage ones - is really valuable. There were a few times I could have picked up an easy berserk, but didn't. I can do it over now!

Quote
I try to keep the very long berserk effect from CC going all the way to dlvl 8 to help out with that.

Ahh, yeah. That's helpful on scout builds, but I find trying to find the stairs on tech/marine builds very difficult, especially if I get a bunch of rooms level or a maze. I'm not sure if there's a method to how stairs are generated; else i'll chalk that one up to bad luck. :p

That does give me a question - how do more berserk packs/berserker procs stack with a berserk effect already in progress? Linearly? Or is there a cap?

I haven't managed a lot of success on N! runs thus far, my best run was when I was away from home over the holidays, and I had to cut that run short somewhere near Hell because I had to go back home. I'll give you a few tips from what I've personally gathered though.

Thanks a bunch! I try to get in melee where possible, but often times i'm spawned in a large space with enemies all around me :p

I appreciate the tip about using imps to gib corpses - that's not a bad idea! I'm so focused on trying to avoid taking damage i'm not thinking about potential damage.

And finally, thanks for your wishes of good luck. I'm going to need it...


7
Discussion / Re: Nightmare advice?
« on: January 21, 2017, 17:13 »
Thank you both so much for your responses! Everything helps me puzzle it out a little more. I appreciate it a lot!

IMHO, you might have done better if you switched tactics to running and ran back to the left entrance. Running lowers enemy accuracy and increases you speed, so even if you would probably take a few bites, you could make it there. And once there, you could at least face the demons one at a time, instead of being surrounded by six of them ...

I see! I was going to do just that - and use a large medikit - after I procced a berserk, but...well, you can see how that ended up. :p

I know when surrounded by enemies like that i've had YASDs result from the time it takes to change tactics, and I suppose what was going through my mind was "I don't want to risk it"? I'm not sure. But if I get that far again, i'll definitely give that strategy a try!


I think it's best not to try to make sense of 2Dev's games; they don't make sense to anyone else either.  :P

Haha, that's fair enough! I'm curious to know *how* he does it, but i'll take what I can get!

Quote
I don't think it's possible to do it damageless without a lucky phase device or invulnerability.  You can reduce the damage a lot by rocket-jumping out of the ambush, but that strategy depends on you having completed Hell's Arena, so it wouldn't have helped you in this case.

Ahh, yes! The rocket jump! Why didn't I think of that...? (I suppose i've never had need to use it before, so...)

That's a brilliant idea that should help with a lot more consistency. Thanks!

I suppose you can get lucky finding a rocket launcher before the hellgate, too, but if you *need* a Phase device or a Rocket Launcher to clear it on N!...well. :p

Quote
Other than that, lots of corner-shooting, radar-shooting, and generally shooting enemies outside of their visual range so they don't get a chance to shoot you.  I recorded myself doing this not too long ago; you can see it at the beginning of this video.  (Ultra-Violence difficulty, but you get the idea)

Wow, that was one lucky phase device, damn!

That's the kind of strategy that I tend to use on ultra violence - and it works great. (Mind you, i'm a tad more slow about it :p) It tends to not work on N!, for me, I find, since in the time that it's taken for me to scout/damage mobs at range (With the 2x armour applied, and damage falloff at range on shotguns) that ones i've killed recently in the area have respawned. I'm not sure if there's a formula to the respawning of if i've just been really unlucky with times; On that mortem I posted earlier I actually spent a few turns waiting outside the base entry to try and stack corpses in the door, and around 5-10 wait turns after I killed him last, one sergeant I missed that was chilling out above me would respawn.

It not working for me in N! - and perhaps i'm just doing it wrong, haha - is the premise behind the topic, after all!

Quote
More later; gotta go!

Don't feel obligated to reply! I appreciate the advice of course, but work takes priority!

-----------

One thing i've gained from the replies so far is that N! Games seem to depend on RNG factors - or massive feats of skill (Getting the RL from N! HA to do the hellgate, for example) to be completed with any amount of consistency. Is that correct? (Obviously skill helps, but i'm talking about doing very ~diamond level stuff on a regular basis to...essentially consistantly complete a ~platinum level standard win.)

8
Discussion / Re: Nightmare advice?
« on: January 21, 2017, 07:01 »
Hi Thomas! Thanks for the advice. I gave an attempt at Longinus Platinum a go following what you said! Here's the mortem.

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 horos, level 6 Hell Baron 2nd Lieutenant Marine,
 was eaten alive by a nightmare demon at the Hellgate.
 He survived 14715 turns and scored 79252 points.
 He played for 30 minutes and 1 second.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 210 out of 289 hellspawn. (72%)

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 11
  Levels visited   : 1
  Levels completed : 0

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  None

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  #################################.................#########
  #################################..................######..
  ########...............i.....####...................###....
  ########.O......i..........O.####...................#......
  ########.....................####...................#......
  #..||..#.....................#......................#......
  #......#..........c..........#......................#......
  #......#............ccc......#......................#......
  #....../.............X.......+......................#......
  #......#............ccc......#......................#......
  #......#..........c..........#......................#......
  #..||.^#.....................#......................#......
  ########.........i...........####...................#......
  ########.......O.......i.....####...................#......
  ########.................O...####...................###....
  #################################..................######..
  #################################.................#########
  ###########################################################
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 0/60   Experience 11004/6
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +4  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +6

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Marine

    Brute            (Level 2)
    Berserker        (Level 1)
    Badass           (Level 2)
    Vampyre          (Level 1)

  Bru->Bru->Ber->Bad->Bad->MVm->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   red armor [2/4] (45%)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   chainsaw (4d6)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   protective boots [2/2] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   shotgun (8d3) [1/1]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] pistol (2d4) [6/6]
    [b] green armor [1/1] (100%)
    [c] combat knife (2d5)
    [d] 10mm ammo (x32)
    [e] shotgun shell (x50)
    [f] shotgun shell (x50)
    [g] shotgun shell (x32)
    [h] small med-pack
    [i] small med-pack
    [j] large med-pack
    [k] large med-pack
    [l] power mod pack
    [m] technical mod pack
    [n] steel boots [1/1] (100%)

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Acid       - internal 0%    torso 0%    feet 25% 
    Fire       - internal 0%    torso 12%   feet 0%   

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    44 former humans
    14 former sergeants
    15 former captains
    71 imps
    7 demons
    38 lost souls
    9 cacodemons
    4 hell knights
    6 barons of hell
    2 pain elementals

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
  On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
  On level 8 he finally was eaten alive by a nightmare demon.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 There is a red armor [4/4] (100%) lying here.
 There is a red armor [4/4] (100%) lying here.
 You equip a red armor [4/4] (100%) from the ground.
 There is a Large Health Globe lying here.
 You feel like new!
 You open the door.
 Suddenly the walls lower! You dodge! You dodge! You are hit! You are hit! You
 dodge! You dodge! You dodge! The missile hits the nightmare demon. The
 missile hits the nightmare demon.
 You dodge! The missile hits the nightmare demon. The missile hits the
 nightmare demon. You dodge! The missile hits the nightmare imp.
 You hit the nightmare demon. You dodge! The missile hits the nightmare demon.
 You dodge! The missile hits the nightmare demon. The missile hits the
 nightmare demon. The nightmare demon hits you. The nightmare demon hits you.
 The nightmare demon hits you. The nightmare demon hits you. Your red armor is
 damaged! You die!... Press <Enter>...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 34 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 23 of those were killed.
 And 2 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 9 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 5 killed the bitch and survived.
 4 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I tried my best - and was doing well, I berserked from the CC right up until the stairs of the hellgate. I wanted to try and get a lucky proc off one of the demons, but...well, as you can see...

Code: [Select]
You hit the nightmare demon. You dodge! The missile hits the nightmare demon.
 You dodge! The missile hits the nightmare demon. The missile hits the
 nightmare demon. The nightmare demon hits you. The nightmare demon hits you.
 The nightmare demon hits you. The nightmare demon hits you. Your red armor is
 damaged! You die!... Press <Enter>...

I kinda just died in one turn. How do people complete this level on N!, let alone damageless? Phase device abuse? What happens if you don't encounter one?

I tried to go as quick as I could through the levels, but the enemies are a lot more accurate and unforgiving then UV.

It's hard to pick one thing from just a mortem - i tried to gib corpses in explosions, in fluids and doors as much as possible, for example - but any advice here?

9
Discussion / Re: Nightmare advice?
« on: January 20, 2017, 21:53 »
Quote
because I suspect you're already well above my skill level when it comes to Nightmare challenges.

Haha, no way. I tried playing a bunch of N! AoB games to grab all the berserk packs in the CC and run through to UC for the...platinum? Badge, and didn't get any further then around dlevel 4 with maybe 30-40% kills at best. :p As I said, i'm just completely incompatible with Nightmare, seemingly. The best I had was when I had a few levels of Brute and just camped next to a doorway waiting for all the imps/formers to come and smacking them there, but then a HK appeared, and I was already tired and low on health kits... YASD right there.

Thanks for the advice on "sereging", Sereg! I'll give it a go for doing a few challenges to rank up, and with a bit of RNG it should be pretty smooth sailing. However, relying on "luck and a lot of attempts" is actually the opposite of what I wanted to do - I can do UV runs with a great deal of consistency (Well, except AoB - I haven't tried because kiting Hell Knights around a corner/container is a tad boring and risky with my skill level), and I wanted to move into N! with the same goal - to achieve consistent results. Only the most horrid RNG situations (or a few impatient keyclicks leading to pistolwhipping a shambler...) tend to mess me around, and that's where i'd like to get to on N!.

Thanks for your reply though! I'll go give it a shot when I next get some spare time.

10
Discussion / Nightmare advice?
« on: January 20, 2017, 02:57 »
Hi everyone. Old returning player, i'm sure there's been quite a few of those, so no need for anything special.

I saw there was a quick questions thread...but I thought the question required a more 'broad' answer then the thread might have given. If that's wrong, please feel free to get me to repost/merge it there, and sorry in advance!

Anyway, I really enjoy playing DoomRL and eagerly await the next version...if indeed there will be one, with all the Jupiter Hell activity. However, I've reached a bit of a lull in my adventures. The maximum difficulty I can reasonably attempt is UV - I don't have a problem with doing challenges on that difficulty, and indeed that's my default setting unless i'm doing a fun run or playing AoB (I could do it, I imagine, but I don't want to be running around throwing knives at a Hell Knight on the first few floors for ages just to get max kill rate. :p). However, I struggle a lot with Nightmare....

Indeed, i've only played around 10 games on nightmare in the past, going back to.. 0.9.9, if my memory serves me correctly. And I remember each time it was utterly frustrating to play - Respawning enemies is one thing, but they also have the 10% speed buff (Or you have a 10% speed penalty, I don't remember which) and on top of that, they spawn even worse then UV.

Now, this could be attributed to my playstyle. I do do a lot of camping and cornershooting with giftdropping (A recent UV game of mine was 594499 turns, and this was even after I got the BFG and the Scythe and practically destroyed the hell levels with berserk and high movespeed), which leaves a pile of corpses stacked on the wall next to me. Now, that's not that bad even if there's a few Archviles around, focus them down first, then go back to gibbing whatever they ressurected, but on N! at low levels when you're armed with a few traits and even fewer methods to clean up corpses besides stacking them, this strategy is completely unviable.

I was hoping to get some advice from some of the more experienced players on how to ease into Nightmare. Ease being a relative term, of course. I've played a few games hoping to get some experience for myself, but have had little success in getting...well, anywhere, really. And i'm really not looking forward to the N! Hellgate, which just looks flat up impossible with nightmare enemies at such a low dlevel...it makes UV Phobos Lab look like a picnic.

As an extension question - how do you complete no damage/speed challenges? Now, obviously you can kite the Angel of Death around the UC - that's no big deal if you have enough movespeed and combat knives (Or you are confident in timing your steps and attacks). And taking on enemies 1v1 damageless is also suitably easy given you have some form of cover or high movespeed. But how are you supposed to do this with multiple enemies?

Now, obviously we can't all be Neo, er, TwoDev, but I don't understand in what way he (and others! Credit where credit is due) performs some of the challenges he does - and in very little time, at that! A recent AoMs YAAM of mine gave me the line " He played for 2 hours, 35 minutes and 8 seconds.", and i'd consider that fairly fast!

In what way do you go about doing challenges like this? Things like the higher level gatekeeper badges, clearing the mortuary without damage, etc.

I understand it is supposed to be difficult, but I don't understand what basic tactics or the method you would go about doing these kinds of things. Having random creatures fireball you out of the blue happens to me more often then not unless I camp - which doesn't work on these kinds of challenges. And the Gatekeeper just seems flat out impossible, given i've never gone to the bruiser brothers without a significant paddling.

Thanks in advance for the advice. It's quite frustrating having worked out how to pick up the Dragonslayer on a recent Ao100 game I completed (No Berserker Armor spawned, unfortunately) and having the feeling of "I worked out a cool secret!" overshadowed by "It takes me over half an hour to get past Phobos Base Entry on Nightmare", so I greatly appreciate it.

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