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31
Century Lounge / Re: [U|Ao100|99%|YAVP] Centurial Platinum
« on: April 08, 2020, 13:29 »Nightmare! has a lot of ways to generate really nasty situations way earlier than you are prepared to handle them. Yeah, the beginning would definitely be rough, but even getting through that, you could easily spawn into a floor that might barely offer the opportunity for survival, much less safe clearing - and some don't even offer that. The Inquisitor set would almost be a must have, since I don't know another way to handle Cyberdemon caves, and Nightmare Arachnotron caves or shambler caves could still ruin the run.
Keep in mind most N! Centurial runs, whether 666 or merely the base 100, rely on finding an exit ASAP and getting the hell on to the next floor... *not* setting up for a clear.
I encountered the nightmare arachnotron cave on 47, which is close to as early as it's possible to get one. (43, if I'm reading the wiki correctly and its information is up to date, I haven't looked at the code for this section myself.) I killed about one half arc of arachnotrons before I had to flee, and I assumed that part of this was because of my newness and relative incompetence. (I ran out of plasma cells because of bad ammo management, my weapons and traits weren't particularly optimized, I didn't have back up armor for when the energy shield fell apart, and so on.) The rest of it was that I wasn't actually committed to fighting it out: rather than standing and fighting where I'd landed, I wasted some actions moving to the up stairs, which were in an open area in the center of the cavern. If I'd wanted to maximize my odds of clearing it, I would have tried to find reduce the damage I was taking at the cost of maybe not making it out. Because of this, I'd assumed that nightmare arachnotron caves would be more tractable for a stronger character played by someone with more experience expecting to fight it out.
Even if I hadn't made these choices and mistakes, for a much stronger character, nightmare arachnotron caves are still likely death?
On top of that, it's 666 floors of no saving. Imagine making it down to floor 500, calling it a night, and forgetting your computer had an automatic restart planned =P
I play on Linux so I don't have that problem ;).
32
Century Lounge / Re: [U|Ao100|99%|YAVP] Centurial Platinum
« on: April 07, 2020, 14:47 »But your comment on time got me curious, and I went browsing the Century Lounge archives... my own Medium ArchAo666 YAAM took nine hours, and ZicherCZ managed it on Ultraviolence in three and a half days.
Personally I wouldn't have been able to finish this run in one session, even if I hadn't left the game running over night by accident. I don't have that kind of stamina. A Nightmare run in one session would be right out.
And now I'm tempted to try for a 100% Centurial Angelic run, just for "fun", but unfortunately my profile is on a computer that isn't easily accessible to me in the near future... nor have I ever really even come close to a N! 666 run. My Dervis' Medallion was a melee stairdive(Edit: and I apparently did it in under an hour, with a Minor Icarus Cross to boot) - to replicate even those first 100 levels going for 100% would be much more difficult, to say nothing of extremely tedious =P
Who knows, maybe Tormuse will eventually post such a mortem, though. He has a habit of doing insane things like that...
This might be more doable than you think. The brutal part would be the beginning, it would be just as hard to get it started as any other early Nightmare challenge. Assuming you survived that, the one thing that you have in Ao100 in abundance is rockets, so disposing of lots of corpses is doable. Eventually you'd hope to find a sniper modpack or at least a firestorm modpack (for demolition ammo), or one of the exotics/uniques that blows up corpses, but until then, I suspect rockets would suffice. Once you have reliable corpse destruction N! is not much worse than UV.
33
Discussion / Re: Quick questions thread!
« on: April 07, 2020, 14:33 »Gonna test that... as I thought you can disassemble anything modded, not just weapons. If it's not true, then you'd anyway need two onyx packs to build that tower shield and lava boots.
You can definitely only disassemble weapons, I tested this as a scavenger at one point because I was curious.
34
Century Lounge / Re: [U|Ao100|99%|YAVP] Centurial Platinum
« on: April 07, 2020, 13:42 »Note for the future - nightmare arachnotrons can shoot in melee range, so they were likely perforating you instead of hitting with melee. This makes them the worst opponents in AoB or melee runs.
That does explain it, thanks. That's a good thing to know for future runs.
Also I'm not sure why maxing SoB - you'll get increasing knockback chances with rapid fire, mostly moving your target off the line of fire. This helps shotguns, sure, but works worse for whatever shoots more than once and does not cover an area. I'd rather amp EE instead of SoB at level 13, since more frequent hits at full distance really mean saving ammo.
If I had it to do over again, I'd probably advance EE sooner. (Also, not accidentally getting Ironman so early would have helped.) I was checking the combat logs, though, and missing was not that big a problem with the hyperblaster. I missed a fair amount with the gatling gun, but I didn't care because I had more than enough ammo for it. I didn't notice many enemies getting knocked out of my line of fire?
And finally, how come your Ao100 lasted 4 DAYS?! This timer only counts in-game elapsed time, so you really had to spend over a hundred hours on that game. And it says you saved several times. Saving more than once is normal, but 4 days with saving? REALLY? For records, my only UV Ao100 run took 9 hours of elapsed time and a single save.
Forgetfulness :). I left the game running overnight at least twice because I forgot to save before bed, then didn't come back to it until the next evening. I also left it running while doing things like cooking and eating dinner because I was having trouble deciding what to keep and what to drop in my inventory, and I couldn't save before making that decision. You do these things a few times and it starts to add up. The game took more than a week to play.
35
Century Lounge / [U|Ao100|99%|YAVP] Centurial Platinum
« on: April 06, 2020, 17:41 »--------------------------------------------------------------
DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------
Iainuki, level 24 Demon 2nd Lieutenant Scout,
completed 100 levels of torture on level 100 of Hell.
He survived 493203 turns and scored 2389449 points.
He played for 4 days, 9 hours, 11 minutes and 8 seconds.
He was a man of Ultra-Violence!
He killed 4021 out of 4054 hellspawn. (99%)
He was a real killing machine...
He was an Angel of 100!
He saved himself 9 times.
-- Special levels --------------------------------------------
Levels generated : 0
Levels visited : 0
Levels completed : 0
-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------
UAC Star (silver cluster)
Experience Medal
Centurial Bronze Badge
Centurial Silver Badge
Centurial Gold Badge
Centurial Platinum Badge
-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------
###########################################################
#===^==================================================}|==
#===##====================================================|
#===##===================================================}=
#====================#=========#================}|======}|=
#===##=##============##====================================
#=0=##=##===##X===================}=#/#=####===#########/##
#=========|=============================|==========/=======
#======================================}===========#===}|==
#========================#}========#0=========}====#=======
####+#+########}=========[}=}=================|====#=======
#=======0=======}=========|========/===============#=======
#====0=======##|===============/========################/=#
#;=======##==##==========/================}================
#========##======================================##===}==\=
#=##=##=====#==================|========##==##===##=##=##==
#=##=##=====#========================}#=##==##======##=##==
#========================/=========/===============|=======
#================================================^=}=======
###########################################################
-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------
Health 70/70 Experience 844214/24
ToHit Ranged +4 ToHit Melee +4 ToDmg Ranged +5 ToDmg Melee +5
-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------
Class : Scout
Ironman (Level 2)
Finesse (Level 3)
Hellrunner (Level 3)
Son of a bitch (Level 5)
Eagle Eye (Level 2)
Juggler (Level 1)
Dodgemaster (Level 1)
Intuition (Level 2)
Whizkid (Level 2)
Triggerhappy (Level 2)
Cateye (Level 1)
Int->Int->SoB->Fin->Iro->Fin->WK->WK->SoB->TH->MCe->Jug->SoB->SoB->SoB->HR->HR->DM->Fin->EE->HR->TH->EE->Iro->
-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------
[a] [ Armor ] cerberus onyx armor [2] (P)
[b] [ Weapon ] minigun (1d7)x8 [200/200] (P1T2)
[c] [ Boots ] cerberus acid-proof boots [0/0] (100%) (A)
[d] [ Prepared ] hyperblaster (2d4)x5 [40/40] (F1)
-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------
[a] plasmatic combat shotgun (8d3) [5/5] (P1)
[b] tactical rocket launcher (6d6) [5/5] (T1)
[c] assault plasma rifle (2d6)x3 [40/40]
[d] plasma rifle (1d7)x6 [73/88] (B3)
[e] burst plasma rifle (1d10)x8 [80/80] (P1)
[f] assault shotgun (9d3) [6/6] (P2T3)
[g] super shotgun (10d4)x2 [2/2] (P2)
[h] VBFG9000 (10d8) [95/195] (B1)
[i] Jackhammer (8d3)x3 [9/9]
[j] fireproof red armor [6/6] (100%) (P)
[k] fire shield [4/4] (200%)
[l] phaseshift armor [4/4] (100%) (AP)
[m] Malek's Armor [3/3] (100%)
[n] shotgun shell (x50)
[o] shotgun shell (x32)
[p] large med-pack
[q] large med-pack
[r] large med-pack
[s] homing phase device
[t] phaseshift boots [4/4] (100%) (A)
[u] shell box (x100)
[v] power battery (x120)
-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------
Acid - internal 0% torso 70% feet 100%
Fire - internal 0% torso 70% feet 100%
Plasma - internal 0% torso 50% feet 0%
-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------
246 former humans
398 former sergeants
548 former captains
171 imps
69 demons
247 lost souls
73 cacodemons
142 hell knights
528 barons of hell
172 arachnotrons
10 former commandos
27 pain elementals
234 revenants
360 mancubi
376 arch-viles
64 nightmare imps
74 nightmare cacodemons
136 nightmare demons
49 nightmare arachnotrons
9 nightmare arch-viles
4 elite former humans
7 elite former sergeants
4 elite former captains
5 elite former commandos
43 bruiser brothers
11 shamblers
2 lava elemental
7 agony elementals
5 Cyberdemons
-- History ---------------------------------------------------
On level 12 he assembled a tactical shotgun!
On level 12 he assembled a gatling gun!
On level 12 he assembled a fireproof armor!
On level 12 he assembled a plasmatic shrapnel!
On level 21 he assembled a tactical boots!
On level 21 he assembled a tactical rocket launcher!
On level 21 he assembled a focused double shotgun!
On level 25 he found the Jackhammer!
On level 26, hell froze over!
On level 28 he stumbled into a nightmare demon cave!
On level 29 he assembled a hyperblaster!
On level 34 he found the Malek's Armor!
On level 35 he assembled a burst cannon!
On level 36 he ran for his life from lava!
On level 38 he assembled a cerberus boots!
Level 42 was a hard nut to crack!
Level 45 blasted him with an unholy atmosphere!
On level 47 he stumbled into a nightmare arachnotron cave!
On level 50 he found the Anti-Freak Jackal!
On level 55 he ran for his life from acid!
On level 58 he assembled a cerberus armor!
Level 60 was a hard nut to crack!
Level 64 was a hard nut to crack!
On level 65 he stumbled into a nightmare demon cave!
On level 66 he ran for his life from acid!
On level 73 he stumbled into a nightmare demon cave!
On level 77 he found the Frag Shotgun!
On level 78 he was walking in fire!
On level 78 he found the Revenant's Launcher!
On level 83 he assembled a VBFG9000!
On level 89 he ran for his life from lava!
On level 90, hell froze over!
On level 95 he assembled a fire shield!
Level 96 was a hard nut to crack!
On level 98 he assembled a assault rifle!
On level 100 he finally completed 100 levels of torture.
-- Messages --------------------------------------------------
Run - direction...
Run - direction...
Run - direction...
Run - direction...
There is a chaingun (1d6)x4 [40/40] lying here.
It doesn't seem to move there.
Run - direction...
It doesn't seem to move there.
There is a pistol (2d4) [0/6] lying here.
There is shotgun shell (x13) lying here.
There is shotgun shell (x13) lying here.
There are stairs leading downward here.
You did it! You completed 100 levels of DoomRL! You're the champion! Press
<Enter>...
-- General ---------------------------------------------------
1040 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
962 of those were killed.
1 of those was killed by something unknown.
9 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
And 56 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.
12 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
10 killed the bitch and survived.
2 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.
--------------------------------------------------------------
LuckyDee on the quick questions thread suggested that Centurial Platinum ought to be a relatively reliable badge if I could confidently play Ultra Violent, and at this point I can, so I did. I played my standard hybrid shotgun/rapid-fire build aiming for Cat-Eye. As usual, I detoured to Intuition 2 (why wouldn't you since Cat-Eye takes Intuition 1) and Whizkid 2 (This is Ao100). The early first level of Ironman was a misclick that delayed key things. After that, I went for Juggler, which if you have Finesse and are running are a generalist build I've found to be very helpful (and it's Tormuse approved!). Then, I maxed out SoB because it helped ammo efficiency (a big concern) and damage on both my rapid-fire weapons and my shotguns. After that, I finally went for defense, first Hell Runner and Dodgemaster, then more offense with Finesse, Eagle Eye (I was using a hyperblaster and shotguns for offense for most of this, and even at max Cat-Eye range a hyperblaster hits at like 62%), and eventually Hell Runner, Trigger Happy, and Ironman.
Level 12 gave me four modpacks, enough to finish four key items, a tactical shotgun, fireproof red armor, gatling gun, and plasmatic shrapnel combat shotgun. Even on Ultra Violent, corpse disposal is invaluable just to nerf arch-viles. Because I wasn't going to have Reloader, the ability to reload quickly for disposal was important, so a combat shotgun it was. I P-modded it and ended up using it a fair amount for combat anyways because plasma works better against enemies with armor or to destroy monsters' cover without destroying items. I P-modded the fireproof red armor when I could. It would serve me until I managed to P-mod the cerberus onyx armor: without the extra 2 protection, I needed the 6 protection on the fireproof red armor against sergeants and captains. I P-modded all my primary weapons, like all my tactical shotgun, to save ammo. I T-modded the gatling gun, which I had abundant ammo for, to save on P mods.
I tried to avoid carrying 10 mm down stairs, only keeping the gatling gun and, eventually, replacing it with the minigun in the mortem. I used the 10 mm bullets to save on shells and cells. On at least one occasion in the 20s, I actually ran out of everything but 10 mm ammo and was relying on the gatling gun.
I found a super shotgun on the same level as I finished the focused double shotgun, so I left the focused double shotgun behind. The wiki's advice on the super shotgun vs. the focused double shotgun is slightly out of date (in 0.9.9.7 the focused double shotgun is not statistically superior to the super shotgun), the super shotgun's advantage is moddability and other assemblies. I never found a nanopack to make a nanoshrapnel supershotgun, and I could have done other things with one, so in retrospect, I should have kept the focused double shotgun because I could use Juggler with it, as it's a situational weapon.
The Jackhammer on the other hand was a good find. The wiki talks it down, but for a character with SoB and Trigger Happy, it solves a very important problem: coming down the stairs next to a pack of dangerous demons. If there isn't a wall behind the enemies, the Jackhammer's extraordinary knockback will kick them so far back they won't see me any more. If there is a wall, well, there isn't another weapon that can do this:
Code: [Select]
------------------------------ Past messages viewer -------------------- 100% --
^ ^
You enter Hell, level 83.
You see a combat knife (2d5) [2n].
You open the door.
Fire -- Choose target...
You see : an arch-vile (unhurt) | floor | [m]ore
Targeting canceled.
Fire -- Choose target...
You see : an arch-vile (unhurt) | floor | [m]ore
The arch-vile dies.
Fire -- Choose target...
You see : pool of blood
Targeting canceled.
Fire -- Choose target...
You see : pool of blood
The arch-vile dies. The baron of hell dies. The baron of hell dies. The baron
of hell dies.
You reload the Jackhammer.
On an early cave, I saw the Trigun on another side of a lava river but I was sufficiently short of health that I didn't want to risk crossing to try to get it. There were also some demons over there, which killed my 100% chances. Of course, a couple of levels later, I ended up surrounded on three sides by arch-viles with barons of hell destroying my cover, so I had to homing phase device out. The last level I had to leave for fear I'd die was the nightmare arachnotron cave on 47. I started with an invulnerability globe and an energy shield, but I ended up on the downstairs with three nightmare arachnotrons next to me, with their melee attacks shredding the energy shield and no way to get to the cells the arachnotrons I'd killed had dropped.
I made a cerberus armor out of onyx armor because that's what I found first, though I later saw a gothic armor. I don't know how much better the indestructibility is than the 50% resistance to melee/bullets/shrapnel, as that was a significant liability. I found a phase shift armor fairly early, but I preferred to keep its movement bonus. Later I found the boots to accompany it. I also used Malek's a fair bit early but not at all later. The firestorm modpack on the hyperblaster came reasonably early, before floor 40, and I thought making an extremely powerful weapon was the best use rather than an assembly.
Most of the junk you see in my inventory in the mortem was me cleaning up assemblies I hadn't made yet, finding ways to store more cells, or both. If the onyx pack hadn't showed up on floor 90 or so, I would have put it on the phase shift armor but instead I just made the useless fire shield assembly to make sure it doesn't show up as schematics.
This was pleasantly more strategic than a normal game, but also really long. The Cat-Eye build I ran with was quite strong but also required paying attention, if I ever do this again I'm going to have to figure out if I can make a character where I don't actually have to pay attention while I'm playing.
36
Nightmare! / Re: [N!|AoSh+AoOC|71%|YAVP] I also can fire a shotgun
« on: April 06, 2020, 15:28 »
Congrats! Sounds like you had a similar experience to me.
37
Nightmare! / Re: [N!|AoMC+AoMs|53%|4|YASD] At least I can PWN the Arena
« on: April 06, 2020, 15:25 »Whoops. Actually I hate when the game can't let you aim with an empty weapon, I am too often hitting F then instead of aiming I had my face stuck out into the open - yes, with no ammo to fire, to add insult to injury.
There's an option you can set to create a prompt you have to clear with the Enter key when you try to fire with an empty weapon that can prevent that mistake. I learned that from Tormuse, might be worth doing.
38
Discussion / Re: Nightmare requires a tedious, boring play style
« on: April 05, 2020, 20:07 »I actually fully agree with you. Nightmare gameplay in DoomRL was designed somehow accidentally. The monsters were not supposed to be prevented from reviving, people found out engine limitations that would indeed prevent that, and started "clearing" levels on Nightmare. As it seemed to be something the high-level players did often I added some badges that required that.
At this moment, changing any behaviour related to Nightmare clears would require a serious rebalance of the challenges, and is definitely not something I have time to do.
Yet lessons were learned, and my major goal when designing Jupiter Hell is removing any tedious and boring tactic from the game as soon as I identify it. To do this retroactively for DoomRL would be much harder, especially not breaking other stuff and strategies along the way.
Yeah, I figured as much. I'm just venting that progressing as a DoomRL player requires taking doing so many tedious and boring things.
39
Discussion / Re: Quick questions thread!
« on: April 05, 2020, 20:01 »
What's the fastest way to get all the assemblies known so I stop getting schematics in Hell's Armory?
40
Nightmare! / [N!|AoSH+AoOC|52%|YAFP] My first Angelic badge, Shottyman Angelic
« on: March 25, 2020, 00:08 »--------------------------------------------------------------
DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------
Iainuki, level 6 Demon 2nd Lieutenant Scout,
defeated the Mastermind at the City of Dis.
He survived 14142 turns and scored 112215 points.
He played for 20 minutes and 27 seconds.
He opposed the Nightmare!
He killed 144 out of 273 hellspawn. (52%)
He was an Angel of Shotgunnery!
He was also an Angel of Overconfidence!
-- Special levels --------------------------------------------
Levels generated : 4
Levels visited : 0
Levels completed : 0
-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------
UAC Star (bronze cluster)
Shottyman Silver Badge
Shottyman Gold Badge
Shottyman Platinum Badge
Shottyman Angelic Badge
Daredevil Gold Badge
-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------
###########################################################
#################..................%.............##########
################..............X####...............#########
###############.......####.....####.....####.......########
##############........####.....####.....####........#######
#############.........####.....####.....####.........######
############..........####..............####..........#####
###########............................................####
###########....####............................####....####
###########....####............................####....####
###########....####............................####&...####
###########....####............................####....####
###########............................................####
############..........####..............####..........#####
#############.........####.....####.....####.........######
##############........####.....####.....####........#######
###############.......####.....####.....####.......########
################...............####...............#########
#################................................##########
###########################################################
-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------
Health 32/50 Experience 13002/6
ToHit Ranged +0 ToHit Melee +0 ToDmg Ranged +3 ToDmg Melee +3
-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------
Class : Scout
Hellrunner (Level 1)
Son of a bitch (Level 3)
Intuition (Level 2)
SoB->SoB->SoB->Int->Int->HR->
-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------
[a] [ Armor ] nothing
[b] [ Weapon ] assault shotgun (8d3) [5/6] (P1)
[c] [ Boots ] protective boots [2/2] (100%)
[d] [ Prepared ] nothing
-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------
[a] shotgun shell (x50)
[b] shotgun shell (x50)
[c] shotgun shell (x5)
[d] shotgun shell (x50)
[e] power cell (x20)
[f] large med-pack
[g] phase device
[h] phase device
[i] phase device
[j] power mod pack
[k] steel boots [1/1] (100%)
[l] protective boots [2/2] (100%)
-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------
Acid - internal 0% torso 0% feet 25%
-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------
1 former human
23 former sergeants
14 former captains
4 imps
7 demons
61 lost souls
3 cacodemons
2 barons of hell
3 arachnotrons
2 former commandos
6 pain elementals
4 revenants
3 mancubi
2 arch-viles
8 nightmare demons
1 Spider Mastermind
-- History ---------------------------------------------------
On level 7 he stumbled into a nightmare demon cave!
Then at last he found Dis!
On level 8 he finally defeated the Mastermind.
-- Messages --------------------------------------------------
You see : out of vision
You reload the assault shotgun.
Fire -- Choose target...
You see : out of vision
You reload the assault shotgun.
Your assault shotgun is already loaded.
Fire -- Choose target...
You see : out of vision
You reload the assault shotgun.
Fire -- Choose target...
You see : Iainuki (wounded) | floor | [ m ]ore
Targeting canceled.
Fire -- Choose target...
You see : out of vision
You hear the scream of a freed soul! Congratulations! You defeated the Spider
Mastermind! Press <Enter>...
-- General ---------------------------------------------------
957 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
881 of those were killed.
1 of those was killed by something unknown.
9 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
And 55 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.
11 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
9 killed the bitch and survived.
2 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.
--------------------------------------------------------------
The run that I finally beat the Mastermind with was surprisingly ordinary. The only standout features were a nightmare demon cavern on Hell 7 where I actually had to get about some kills to hit 50% (I ran to the stairs and shotgunned demons until I had two eating my face, and that was more than enough) and a midgame power mod on my assault shotgun (the best mod, IME, for ammo conservation and knockback). I'd never gotten any armor this game (I don't know if there was armor generated on one of the levels I didn't fully explore). I used the Tormuse method to corner-shoot the Mastermind, since I had zero chance of winning a fight when she could shoot back.
For comparison, I reached the Mastermind and died with three characters. My first character I just didn't have enough ammunition to get the kill. (I started taking more risks to go after sergeants and started avoiding ammo-intensive enemies more after that.) The second character I should have gotten the kill. I'd found a sniper mod pack and made my assault shotgun into a plasmatic shrapnel assembly, which made getting to the Mastermind a lot easier because I could gib corpses. I did a lot of damage to the Mastermind with it, but the pillars in Dis aren't indestructible, and like an idiot I kept using it until there was only one square left, at which point the Mastermind could see and shoot me. I had a combat shotgun that I'd kept for the express purpose in case that exact thing happened (I didn't know the pillars were destructible for sure before I tested it), that I could have switched while the pillar still had two squares left. I also could have moved to the bottom pillar instead of the top. I even had the Necroarmor, which gave me decent defense, unlike most of my characters. Dying there was pure stupidity on my part. The third character I had a plasma shotgun, but I was critically short of ammunition for it and my assault shotgun, there wasn't really anything I could have done to fix that issue AFAICT without probably dying in the process (there was a group of arachnotrons on Hell 6 I could have tried mugging for cells, but that would have been very dangerous, and Hell 7 was a nightmare demon cave with no ammunition available). Those characters, and many other others, also found pain elemental caverns that let me rack up some kills (some I've seen have given me over 200 kills).
Getting this badge was an extremely frustrating experience. While it doesn't require doing any of the really tedious things in Nightmare, it required an extraordinary amount of luck. I killed hundreds of characters to get four to the Mastermind, and that doesn't even count the hundred or so more I quit on seeing the first level (Arachnotron caverns on Hell 1 weren't worth playing out, we all know how that would end). That said, the amount of skill involved surprised me. I was clearly getting better at playing this ridiculous challenge. I finally got a character to the Mastermind yesterday, and today I managed to get three more. That wasn't an accident. The skill-to-luck factor still doesn't feel very favorable.
41
Discussion / Nightmare requires a tedious, boring play style
« on: March 21, 2020, 21:04 »
I know I'm not treading new ground here, I'm sure these observations have been made before, but I wanted to note that as a relatively new player of this game, I don't find Nightmare fun.
The primary challenge on Nightmare is the respawning monsters. The only way to prevent respawning, without some late game weapons that take luck to obtain, is making sure monsters die on the right tile (another corpse, a door, or fluids). This in turn means that actually shooting the monsters takes a back seat to manipulating their movement, which takes a fiddly combination of dancing around, positioning guess-work, dealing damage carefully calibrated not to kill something, gift-dropping, and waiting. I'd guess the amount of time spent waiting (measured by in-game turns) by a typical good player on Nightmare is a majority or at least plurality of their game actions. In real time, I've watched good players take 15 minutes on a single Nightmare level.
Meanwhile, the respawning also exacerbates some of the more frustrating aspects of the randomness of the game. Knockback is not consistent because damage rolls aren't consistent, which cuts down on the number of circumstances where it's possible to reliably position monsters so they don't leave a corpse. Some levels are much, much easier to prevent respawning on than others, and if you generate a level with lot of big rooms with awkwardly placed doors preventing repawning can verge on impossible. If you end up in a situation where you have to kill something where it will respawn, it can stay dead long enough for you to clear the rest of the level or immediately resurrect the moment you kill it, which is particularly brutal when a high-HP enemy gets a full refill rather than dying.
Maybe there's a play style that mitigates these issues, but if it exists, I haven't found it.
The primary challenge on Nightmare is the respawning monsters. The only way to prevent respawning, without some late game weapons that take luck to obtain, is making sure monsters die on the right tile (another corpse, a door, or fluids). This in turn means that actually shooting the monsters takes a back seat to manipulating their movement, which takes a fiddly combination of dancing around, positioning guess-work, dealing damage carefully calibrated not to kill something, gift-dropping, and waiting. I'd guess the amount of time spent waiting (measured by in-game turns) by a typical good player on Nightmare is a majority or at least plurality of their game actions. In real time, I've watched good players take 15 minutes on a single Nightmare level.
Meanwhile, the respawning also exacerbates some of the more frustrating aspects of the randomness of the game. Knockback is not consistent because damage rolls aren't consistent, which cuts down on the number of circumstances where it's possible to reliably position monsters so they don't leave a corpse. Some levels are much, much easier to prevent respawning on than others, and if you generate a level with lot of big rooms with awkwardly placed doors preventing repawning can verge on impossible. If you end up in a situation where you have to kill something where it will respawn, it can stay dead long enough for you to clear the rest of the level or immediately resurrect the moment you kill it, which is particularly brutal when a high-HP enemy gets a full refill rather than dying.
Maybe there's a play style that mitigates these issues, but if it exists, I haven't found it.
42
Nightmare! / [N!|23%|YAVP] UAC Diamond
« on: March 19, 2020, 13:57 »--------------------------------------------------------------
DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------
Iainuki, level 8 Demon Sergeant Major Scout,
defeated the Mastermind at the City of Dis.
He survived 12394 turns and scored 259075 points.
He played for 15 minutes and 39 seconds.
He opposed the Nightmare!
He killed 231 out of 991 hellspawn. (23%)
Who gave him the ticket to Hell, anyway?
-- Special levels --------------------------------------------
Levels generated : 11
Levels visited : 5
Levels completed : 0
-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------
Major Icarus Cross
Compet-n Gold Cross
UAC Platinum Badge
UAC Diamond Badge
-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------
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-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------
Health 13/50 Experience 24628/8
ToHit Ranged +0 ToHit Melee +6 ToDmg Ranged +0 ToDmg Melee +9
-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------
Class : Scout
Hellrunner (Level 2)
Brute (Level 3)
Berserker (Level 1)
Dodgemaster (Level 1)
Blademaster (Level 1)
Bru->Bru->Ber->HR->HR->DM->Bru->MBm->
-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------
[a] [ Armor ] nanofiber red armor [2]
[b] [ Weapon ] chainsaw (4d7) (P)
[c] [ Boots ] steel boots [1/1] (80%)
[d] [ Prepared ] shotgun (8d3) [0/1]
-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------
[a] pistol (2d4) [4/6]
[b] combat shotgun (7d3) [5/5]
[c] green armor [1/1] (22%)
[d] green armor [1/1] (83%)
[e] green armor [1/1] (100%)
[f] green armor [1/1] (1%)
[g] blue armor [2/2] (81%)
[h] 10mm ammo (x20)
[i] shotgun shell (x2)
[j] rocket (x10)
[k] rocket (x5)
[l] large med-pack
[m] large med-pack
[n] phase device
[o] phase device
[p] envirosuit pack
[q] envirosuit pack
[r] bulk mod pack
-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------
Bullet - internal 60% torso 60% feet 60%
Melee - internal 60% torso 60% feet 60%
Shrapnel - internal 60% torso 60% feet 60%
Acid - internal 60% torso 60% feet 60%
Fire - internal 60% torso 73% feet 60%
Plasma - internal 60% torso 60% feet 60%
-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------
44 former humans
25 former sergeants
22 former captains
50 imps
7 demons
46 lost souls
1 cacodemon
4 hell knights
9 barons of hell
3 former commandos
3 pain elementals
1 revenant
7 mancubi
7 arch-viles
1 Cyberdemon
1 Spider Mastermind
-- History ---------------------------------------------------
He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
On level 9 he entered Hell's Armory.
He left the Armory without drawing too much attention.
On level 11 he assembled a nanofiber armor!
On level 11 he arrived at the Containment Area.
Not knowing what to do, he left.
He left level 15 as soon as possible.
On level 16 he found the Tower of Babel!
He left level 17 as soon as possible.
He left level 18 as soon as possible.
On level 20 he was foolish enough to enter the Mortuary!
He managed to escape from the Mortuary!
On level 22 he entered the Lava Pits.
He decided it was too hot there.
Then at last he found Dis!
On level 24 he finally defeated the Mastermind.
-- Messages --------------------------------------------------
You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
taste blood!
You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
taste blood!
You need to taste blood!
You need to taste blood!
You need to taste blood!
You need to taste blood!
You need to taste blood!
You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
taste blood!
You dodge! You are hit! You dodge! You dodge! You are hit! You dodge! You
need to taste blood!
You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind dies. Congratulations!
You defeated the Spider Mastermind! Press <Enter>...
Next! You're going berserk!
-- General ---------------------------------------------------
409 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
384 of those were killed.
And 15 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.
10 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
8 killed the bitch and survived.
2 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.
--------------------------------------------------------------
This took many more than 28 attempts, as you can see. (Hundreds total, but probably less than a hundred after I came back to this challenge after winning my platinum badges.) Not included in the statistics are the many many quits at Phobos Base when I took too much damage for it to be worth continuing. A lot of these deaths felt outside my control. Usually, the problem was wide open rooms I had to cross that were filled with more enemies than I could reasonably kill. That said, I have definitely improved at the game since my last group of failed attempts at this badge because I was making it farther somewhat more consistently. Most of my runs still died before Chained Court.
This run wasn't unusually lucky at the start, the only thing notable was a lost souls cave on Phobos 4 that gave me a breather right before Chained Court. Chained Court yielded a bulk and power mod. I power-modded the Phobos Anomaly Red Armor ASAP, and then when it dropped to half durability on Deimos 3 I made nanofibre armor out of it. The stairs in Deimos weren't notably close but once I killed the Cyberdemon, in Hell I had a decent run of close stairs. The down stairs on the level before the Mortuary were a long ways away so I risked the Mortuary, which turned out to be doable given that I was already berserk and had Hellrunner/Dodgemaster, though I had to chainsaw an archvile on the way. I never saw a rocket launcher the whole game.
My strategy for the speedrun is a mix of stuff I learned from Tormuse's run (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRF0BhPlNFM) and frozenca's run (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNCYNHbSnlQ). The early game is the shotgun until you get to Chained Court, though I've found it's useful to grab a combat knife since once you have Berserker it's easy to get into situations where the knife does more damage than the shotgun, particularly against single armored targets like barons of hell. (That didn't happen this game.) I have also learned that taking the early game more slowly is more successful, trying to go as fast as possible all the time leads to too many mid-game deaths.
Like Tormuse but unlike frozenca, I stopped to clear Chained Court to get the mods and the experience from the barons. Both Tormuse and frozenca go straight for Blademaster, taking Hellrunner 2 into Brute 3. To me, going for Dodgemaster first, Hellrunner 2, Dodgemaster, Brute 3, and then Blademaster has worked better. My run is still slower than frozenca's though. Tormuse fights in the Anomaly, but every time I've tried to fight the nightmare demons and cacodemons in the ambush I've died, so running seems to work better. (In this run I ran out of berserk near the bruiser brothers so fighting them was out of the question.) For mods, I use the first power mod on the red armor and hope to find a bulk mod to make nanofibre. The time advantage of nanofibre is just enormous because I don't have to spend time thinking about my armor. I make a piercing blade chainsaw when I get a chance. (This game I never saw an agility mod.) Finally, tech mods go to making grappling boots. (This run I didn't see any at all.) Like frozenca but unlike Tormuse, I skipped Unholy Cathedral. It just doesn't feel worth the time cost, since for most of Hell my goal isn't to fight things anyways.
Since I now have a diamond badge, maybe it's time to hunt angelics? Shotgunnery Angelic is apparently pretty luck-based even if it's the easiest, I'll have to give the angelics a closer look.
43
Post Mortem / Re: [U|YAFW|100%] My first platinum badges (Veteran and Elite)
« on: March 19, 2020, 13:28 »Oh I see a win button outta there - grats on getting one! (nano super shotty/P, it even says so in the wiki)
About nuking the UC - you can use the nuke while standing in lava - it'll BLOW UP at once :D and there's lava just beside the starting position in UC. Also grats with them nukes - last time I had to resort to trigunning a couple of Hell levels instead XDDD
That the nuke would go off immediately in lava would have been very helpful to know, thanks!
44
Post Mortem / Re: [U|YAFW|100%] My first platinum badges
« on: March 18, 2020, 12:47 »
Thanks!
edit: No, I was right originally, Phobos Lab.
edit: No, I was right originally, Phobos Lab.
45
Post Mortem / [U|YAFW|100%] My first platinum badges (Veteran and Elite)
« on: March 18, 2020, 02:01 »--------------------------------------------------------------
DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------
Iainuki, level 16 Demon Sergeant Major Scout,
nuked the Mastermind at the Hell Fortress.
He survived 168163 turns and scored 407835 points.
He played for 1 day, 3 hours, 9 minutes and 13 seconds.
He was a man of Ultra-Violence!
He killed 1421 out of 1421 hellspawn. (100%)
This ass-kicking marine killed all of them!
He saved himself once.
-- Special levels --------------------------------------------
Levels generated : 11
Levels visited : 11
Levels completed : 11
-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------
Cyberdemon's Head
Medal of Prejudice
UAC Star (gold cluster)
Aurora Medallion
Conqueror Badge
Grim Reaper's Badge
Hell Armorer Badge
Hell Champion Medal
Heroic Silver Badge
Gatekeeper Gold Badge
UAC Gold Badge
Veteran Silver Badge
Veteran Gold Badge
Veteran Platinum Badge
Elite Platinum Badge
-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------
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-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------
Health 40/50 Experience 123606/16
ToHit Ranged +0 ToHit Melee +0 ToDmg Ranged +3 ToDmg Melee +3
-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------
Class : Scout
Finesse (Level 3)
Hellrunner (Level 3)
Son of a bitch (Level 3)
Dodgemaster (Level 1)
Intuition (Level 2)
Whizkid (Level 2)
Triggerhappy (Level 1)
Cateye (Level 1)
Int->Int->SoB->Fin->Fin->WK->WK->SoB->TH->MCe->HR->HR->DM->HR->SoB->Fin->
-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------
[a] [ Armor ] fireproof red armor [4/4] (80%) (A)
[b] [ Weapon ] BFG 9000 (10d6) [49/169] (B2)
[c] [ Boots ] protective boots [4/4] (84%) (APT)
[d] [ Prepared ] nano super shotgun (6d4)x2 (P1)
-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------
[a] combat shotgun (8d3) [5/5] (P1)
[b] plasma rifle (1d7)x6 [52/52] (B1)
[c] hyperblaster (2d4)x3 [40/40]
[d] missile launcher (6d6) [4/4]
[e] red armor [4/4] (100%) (A)
[f] duelist armor [2/2] (100%)
[g] Angelic Armor [7/7] (100%)
[h] Azrael's Scythe (9d9)
[i] power cell (x70)
[j] power cell (x70)
[k] power cell (x70)
[l] large med-pack
[m] large med-pack
[n] large med-pack
[o] large med-pack
[p] large med-pack
[q] homing phase device
[r] blood skull
[s] Hellwave Pack
[t] rocket box (x20)
-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------
Melee - internal 0% torso 4294967266% feet 0%
Acid - internal 0% torso 0% feet 25%
Fire - internal 0% torso 55% feet 0%
-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------
100 former humans
118 former sergeants
95 former captains
180 imps
118 demons
419 lost souls
39 cacodemons
23 hell knights
94 barons of hell
37 arachnotrons
21 former commandos
45 pain elementals
50 revenants
27 mancubi
33 arch-viles
12 nightmare demons
2 bruiser brothers
1 shambler
1 lava elemental
1 agony elemental
1 Angel of Death
1 Cyberdemon
1 Spider Mastermind
1 John Carmack
1 Arena Master
-- History ---------------------------------------------------
He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
On level 2 he entered Hell's Arena.
He left the Arena as a champion!
On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
On level 5 he found the Arena Master's Staff!
He defeated the Hell Arena Master!
On level 7 he sneaked into the Phobos Lab.
He broke through the lab.
On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
On level 9 he entered Hell's Armory.
On level 9 he assembled a gatling gun!
He destroyed the evil within and reaped the rewards!
On level 10 he assembled a nano-shrapnel!
On level 11 he witnessed the Wall.
He massacred the evil behind the Wall!
On level 12 he found the City of Skulls.
He wiped out the City of Skulls.
Level 14 was a hard nut to crack!
On level 14 he ventured into the Halls of Carnage.
On level 15 he found the Hellwave Pack!
On level 16 he found the Tower of Babel!
On level 17 he invaded the Unholy Cathedral!
He nuked level 17!
On level 17 he found the Azrael's Scythe!
He then destroyed the Unholy Cathedral!
On level 18 he assembled a hyperblaster!
On level 19 he ran for his life from lava!
On level 19 he entered the Vaults.
He cracked the Vaults and cleared them out!
On level 20 he was foolish enough to enter the Mortuary!
On level 20 he found the Angelic Armor!
On level 20 he assembled a fireproof armor!
He managed to clear the Mortuary from evil!
On level 21 he found the Cybernetic Armor!
Level 22 was a hard nut to crack!
On level 22 he entered the Lava Pits.
He managed to clear the Lava Pits completely!
Then at last he found Dis!
He overloaded a nuclear BFG 9000 on level 24!
He defeated the Mastermind and found the TRUE EVIL!
Then finally in Hell itself, he killed the final EVIL.
-- Messages --------------------------------------------------
You see : John Carmack (severely wounded) | pool of blood | [ m ]ore
Targeting canceled.
You swap your weapons.
Fire -- Choose target...
You see : John Carmack (severely wounded) | pool of blood | [ m ]ore
The missile hits the baron of hell.
Fire -- Choose target...
You see : John Carmack (mortally wounded) | pool of blood | [ m ]ore
The missile hits the baron of hell. The baron of hell dies. The baron of hell
dies. The baron of hell dies. The baron of hell dies. The baron of hell dies.
The baron of hell dies. The baron of hell dies.
Fire -- Choose target...
You see : John Carmack (almost dead) | baron of hell corpse | [ m ]ore
The missile hits John Carmack. John Carmack dies. Congratulations! You
defeated John Carmack! Press <Enter>...
You feel relatively safe now.
-- General ---------------------------------------------------
330 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
308 of those were killed.
And 13 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.
9 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
7 killed the bitch and survived.
2 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.
--------------------------------------------------------------
I've been trying to make relatively quick progress in terms of difficulty levels in this game. I fully won on ITYTD, screwed up a full win on HNTR by accidentally using the lava element rather than picking it up, and then did a speed run win on HMP before this one. This win definitely felt like it took more attempts than it should have.
The build I've had the most success with tackling new difficulty levels on is Scout with Cat-Eye. It seems like the best master trait to me because being able to shoot at things without the things being able to shoot back is amazing. I'm going to branch out to some other builds now though.
The start of this run wasn't particularly promising, no mods or better equipment all the way to Phobos Lab. I didn't even have a combat shotgun until I picked up the one at the end of the Lab. However, I did have a double shotgun, and this game I realized for the first time that a double shotgun with a shell box is by far the best way of dealing with the nightmare demons in Phobos Lab. Normally reloading a double shotgun with nightmare demons in sight is suicidal, but the shell box makes reloading fast enough that the demons don't have time to close. Meanwhile, the double shotgun's damage in close quarters knocks them back far enough that they can't eat my face. This turned the lab from a nightmare that claimed two promising characters into something much more doable.
I got two big lucky breaks early on Deimos: Hell's Armory had a nano mod and the level after it had the super shotgun. When I first saw the modpack, I was thinking of the nanomanufacture ammo assembly on a plasma rifle, but when I saw the super shotgun on the next level I immediately went for nanoshrapnel even though I was clearly built around Cat-Eye. The great thing about Cat-Eye is that the extra vision range helps no matter what weapon you're using. I killed almost everything using the nanoshrapnel super shotgun, only occasionally switching over to a plasma rifle that I eventually made into a hyperblaster for sniping things.
I found an invulnerability globe close to the stairs to Babel and came down with the Cyberdemon in sight. The nanoshrapnel shotgun made it a super-easy kill, though honestly a plasma rifle would probably have been enough with chain fire.
On the whole I was fairly mod poor up to Hell. I was scared I was going to have to skip Unholy Cathedral and miss out on Conqueror because I hadn't found another agility mod (the two I'd had had gone on my armor and my boots) to finish piercing blade on the chainsaw. I could make the red armor I was using into ballistic armor, but that was it. (I picked up the duelist armor and the agility mod for the hyperblaster farther into Hell.) The agony elemental had also not given me a hatred skull. However, on Hell 1 I had some more luck. I found an invulnerability globe far from the Unholy Cathedral stairs and decided to risk trying the nuke strategy with the bomb I'd picked up earlier. My invulnerability was wearing out when the bomb went off, so I was cutting it close, but it worked!
My mod luck never turned around, though, and I never managed to finish cerberus boots. I had the foresight to save the two enviropacks I found and that made the Lava Pits possible.
The very last level before Dis was an arachnotron cave, where I came down the stairs in sight of 8 arachnotrons. I used the nuclear BFG and my bulk-modded BFG to wipe them out, and they still took me down to half health.
Now I'm going to trying for some of the higher badges people have mentioned aren't too luck-based. I'll probably start with UAC diamond, then if I manage that look at Shottyman Angelic.