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 1 
 on: March 04, 2025, 15:57 
Started by Omega Tyrant - Last post by Omega Tyrant
A new post to organize bugs/issues in the latest beta:

*Special levels are even more obnoxious to clear on Nightmare without good corpse disposal tools, so clear conditions need to be addressed.

Clearing special levels on Nightmare always been a pain in the ass, with them all requiring you to have everything dead at once, especially the early special levels where you lack good corpse disposal tools and so had to meticulously corpse stack everything or camp near a door. With the new patrolling AI, this problem has gotten exponentially worse, as now you cannot camp in a good spot and viably corpse stack more than a handful of enemies, while by the time you go from one side of the map to the other, something would have inevitably revived on the other end. Hell's Arena in particular demonstrates how severe this problem is, and the only remotely viable ways to clear it on Nightmare is either come in berserked, kill everything ASAP, and get very lucky with both little to no enemies respawning and having the spawns of the final wave near each other, or go through a long drawn out process where you repeatedly lure Cacos and Barons to corpses to blow them up for you, while being lucky enough to have come in with enough medkits to withstand the tons of damage you'll have to take in that process (you can see me going through the ordeal of clearing N! Hell's Arena with patrolling AI even as an optimal build here).

The obvious ideal solution would be to have special levels' clear condition require every unique enemy being killed once, rather than having everything dead at once, thus you don't need to bother with any corpse disposal to clear special levels but respawning will remain a challenge (and lining up with how the kill rate now works too). I would just make an exception for Mortuary/Limbo, since putting all the respawns back down is an intrinsic part of their theme, and maybe you could make an exception for The Wall, Containment Area, The Vaults, and House of Pain, since Archviles are a primary part of those special levels' challenge on UV/N! too (while both level pairs also have lots of rockets around to aid with corpse disposal). If it's not possible to program it this way, then I would say disable respawning in all special levels outright aside from Mortuary/Limbo, or at least, disable respawning in all Phobos special levels and in Hell's Armory/Deimos Lab (as after that point you'll likely have sufficient means of corpse disposal, but not being forced to do any corpse disposal would be ideal), while buffing up the difficulty in those levels on N! through other means.

*AI issues

Several of the reported AI issues after the big AI adjustment have been addressed already in the hotfixes, but a few remain.

**Formers and Hell Nobles sometimes get stuck right on top of items, not picking them up nor moving unless you aggro them. Any surrounding Formers and Nobles will also get stuck trying to reach the item another Former/Noble has parked their ass on and won't move off of (here's a screenshot with a big group of them stuck because one wouldn't pick up the item).

**Formers and Nobles sometimes will not use items even when their health drops below 50%.

**Elementals may sometime remain permanently aggro'd? In this instance, I had a Pain Elemental chase me all the way across a floor, when enemies normally deaggro long before then. When playing Cateye, I also noticed that it seems Elementals may not aggro when you hit them out of their vision? That will need some more testing but I thought to report it here in case.

**I noticed that sequential AI will no longer fire a second volley when you're in melee range, whereas previously they would ignore melee before letting off that second volley (as seen in this instance where a Nightmare Arachnotron melee me after firing only once).

**With patrolling AI, if an enemy steps into a teleporter that brings them outside their patrol zone, they will they try getting back to that zone, but can get stuck doing so (as seen in this instance on Deimos Lab).

**Not all Pinky errors have been fixed, as I got one here after a Pinky killed an Imp.

*Infighting fixes.

Proper infighting has been reimplemented, and it's not breaking things like I thought it would, though some more exceptions should be added to keep it from trivializing certain difficult battles. Some ideas:

**Add a "no infighting" level flag like Doom 64 did, which will disable infighting on any level that it's applied to. This could be used on all boss levels (as currently you get stuff like Bruisers fighting each other in Anomaly and Carmack's spawns fighting each other, making these fights much easier), as well as on certain special levels (such as Mortuary/Limbo, given that they're supposed to be super hard and infighting does lessen their difficulty a bit, and Deimos Lab so you can't cheese the dual Shamblers, unless the following suggestion is applied).

**Don't have enemies infight their own species, just like how Doom does. If you want to emulate Doom farther, you add this exception but don't have it apply to Formers (who would still infight in Doom because hitscan attacks ignored this rule).

**Don't have enemies retaliate against Archviles, just like how Doom also does (you don't kill your healer!).

**If possible, perhaps enemies in monster groups shouldn't infight with others from their same monster group? This one I imagine may not be programmable, but I noticed spawning near monster groups is less dangerous now as ones in the back of the group will inevitably hit those in the front trying to hit you, which then makes the group infight each other, giving you time to escape and leaving you with less of them to mop up after.

*Trait adjustments.

We got big balancing changes a couple betas ago, so this will be what I think should be adjusted:

**Survivalist should have the double healing on Small Medkits and Health Globes removed.

After the TaN buff to give +10% energy resistances per level, and the SoG change that makes investing in Pistols for offense much more efficient, Survivalist is now overturned even with the Marine nerf. It's not at 0.9.9.8 Vampyre levels of broken, but I found Survivalist has become too tanky with just modded Red Armor, and it's not struggling as much with offense as it did previously either, while it also can now get Hellrunner to not be slow in the late game. If TaN was toned down to give +5% energy resistances per level as originally proposed, Survivalist could be back to being ok, but if not, Survivalist will need the double healing ability to go, so that it at least can't stockpile a huge health reserve so easily (especially so on Nightmare, where Small Medkits basically become pseudo-Supercharges as the double healing stacks on N!'s own double healing bonus).

**Entrenchment should have to build up its resistance boost when Chainfiring, or have its resistance boost reduced back to +30%.

I found Entrenchment has also became too tanky, as the original +50% resistance proposal was made back before the aforementioned TaN buff. With no armor at all, chainfiring will have Entrenchment with massive 70% energy resistances, that on top of the inherent 2 protection from TaN2, will reduce an Archvile zap all the way down to 4 damage, and just donning unmodded Red Armor will reduce nearly every energy attack down to 1 damage. An idea is that Entrenchment will have to build up its resistances when Chainfiring (so it starts at +20%, then the next volley it will become +30%, and then reaches +50% once chainfiring is fully on), thus Entrenchment can't suddenly get 70+% resistances on demand and it will be more thematically fitting, but if it's too difficult to program, then reducing it back to a flat +30% resistances should do.

**Reduce Bullet Dance's firing speed penalty to +20%.

An idea Kornel mentioned himself and is probably already planning for the next beta, but I thought to post it here as a reminder just in case. It was also thrown around to remove the firing speed penalty entirely, but I would start with reducing it to +20% since Dual Gunner had its firing speed penalty entirely removed, and seeing how much stronger dual gunning got, I want to err on the side of caution. There is also the original proposal still to let Bullet Dance reload faster when dual gunning, but we can wait to see how Bullet Dance performs first with the firing speed buff before buffing it farther.

I also would still like Finesse becoming a 5 level trait as Kornel mentioned he may be willing to do as a compromise with nerfing it, but I don't feel too strongly yet about it and am willing to do more testing with it as a nerfed level 3 trait. There is additionally the idea of replacing Fireangel's new ability to turn all missiles explosive with making all its Shotguns have +1 spread size, it's not something I'm fully on yet either (as turning all missiles explosive is a cool idea even if it is a bit niche in application), but thought to post here, as it has been discussed previously to possibly give Fireangel a Shotgun-based perk since it's supposed to be a Shotgun mastery.

*In the new Grappling Armor assembly, the requisite Agility mod speed buff or Bulk mod speed penalty gets carried over.

Like previous assembly bugs, if you apply the Agility mod first and then assemble Grappling Armor, the +15% speed buff will get carried over, while if the Bulk mod is applied first, then the -10% speed penalty gets carried over (but oddly the boosted durability does not).

*Issues with enemy placement of The Vaults.

The Barons got their Red Armors in The Vaults, but a couple new issues have arose on the level.

1: Two of the Barons in the right vault on UV/N! were removed (removing the symmetry that existed previously with the six Arachnotrons in the left vault), while with the way the Red Armors are placed, one Baron will always go for the random armor instead that is often worse, leaving a fresh Red Armor for the player. I would recommend adding the two missing Barons back and one more Red Armor in the right vault, that way five of the Barons will get the Red Armors and then the last will get whatever the random armor is.

2: On Nightmare, one of the center vault's enemies will erroneously spawn in the right vault, as seen in these two posts on Discord (first and second).

*Give the Cybernetic Armor a much lower drop rate in the Deimos Lab prize cache.

Previously, the Cybernetic Armor would rarely drop as a prize in Hell's Armory and Deimos Lab. In Armory, since it's in the drop pool with the standard mods that have much higher spawning weights, it's still rare. But in Deimos Lab, since it's in the drop pool with the rare mods and it'll get rolled twice, it's much more common. So over a third of the time, one of the rare mods in Deimos Lab will be replaced with a reward that is almost worthless for Marines and Scouts, and isn't much better for Technicians unless the other rare mod is a Nano or Onyx mod (or they otherwise are lucky enough to find one soon). Looking at the source code for Deimos Lab in 0.9.9.8, it looks like the Cybernetic Armor previously had a separate roll that determined if it replaced one of the rare mods or not so that it would be more rare, rather than being thrown into the drop pool with the rare mods. This should be reimplemented, or if not, at least do what Armory does and have Cybernetic Armor in the spawn pool with the standard mods.

*In Halls of Carnage, a Former can spawn where you're supposed to, which then spawns you in the starting wall.

A funny bug, as seen here. Don't know if this is unique to the beta or just a bug that always existed but been rare. You can just move out the wall normally, so it's not particularly harmful (being slightly beneficial even, as you can get a headstart out of the starting room if you don't care about picking up the Health Globe first).

___________________________________________________

The following is a compilation of previous bugs/issues in the 0.9.9.9 betas that have not been addressed yet. I thought to compile them here so Kornel doesn't need to go through my previous posts to pick out the ones he missed (and to keep this post from getting too big I'll hide their explanations in spoilers):

*Various audio issues

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*If too many sounds play in quick succession, the music will be turned off.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*Warning messages are not colored

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*Technician, Armorer, and Heroic badges aren't being rewarded on the run you fulfilled their requirements, but rather in the immediate run you do after.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*The Mortem's kill ratio message is based on the total enemy kill ratio with respawns factored, rather than the unique enemy kill ratio.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*If an item's name gets too long, it'll take up two lines of space in your inventory menu, and push other items off the screen.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*If you reload a save, when you run -> wait with enemies revealed, you cannot stop it manually. (Note I haven't checked if this bug is still in the latest beta.)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*Add ammo pickups to The Mortuary and Limbo.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*In the Nightmare version of The Vaults, the ease at teleporter camping the center vault's Nightmare enemies should be fixed.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*Have screen shaking intensity vary based on the strength of the projectile/explosion


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 2 
 on: March 02, 2025, 05:58 
Started by Khashishi - Last post by Kantarza
The issue appears to be in Lua's calculation of resistances, somehow generating an overflow. I can't see how the overflow would manifest but if it did, then the display would show:

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    bullet     - internal 10%   torso 10% feet 10% 
    melee      - internal 10%   torso 4294967276% feet 10% 
    shrapnel   - internal 10%   torso 10% feet 10% 
    acid       - internal 10%   torso 10% feet 10% 
    fire       - internal 10%   torso 10% feet 10% 
    plasma     - internal 10%   torso 10% feet 10% 

If I adjust the player's melee resistance to be -1% then it shows (correctly but weirdly) as -1%. So in this case, something had generated the total resistance to be 2^32.

The new version of DRL implements a {!} around the string in mortem.lua. I'm not yet familiar with this syntax so it may be increasing the safety of the variable. I'd be very interested to see anyone else who has this issue.

 3 
 on: March 01, 2025, 06:30 
Started by Khashishi - Last post by Kantarza
Thanks @Khashishi

Mighty impressive!

I'll see if I can reproduce the issue.

 4 
 on: March 01, 2025, 06:21 
Started by carthagodrl - Last post by Kantarza
Hi @carthagodrl

Thanks for posting your bug report. I'd love to get a little more info and take a closer look.
* Which version of drl are you using?
* Does it happen on every item use, or only occasionally?
* If it's occasional, can you see a pattern when it does occur?
* Can you send any more screenshots showing the error occurring?
* Ideally, do you have a save file just prior to the crash?

 5 
 on: March 01, 2025, 06:13 
Started by Kantarza - Last post by Kantarza
Bugfix has been developed and submitted for review: https://github.com/chaosforgeorg/doomrl/pull/241

 6 
 on: February 24, 2025, 22:10 
Started by Sambojin - Last post by Omega Tyrant
Technicians did get buffed in 0.9.9.8 by getting exclusive access to Whizkid 3 (so up to seven mods on ranged weapons, four mods on armors/boots/melee weapons, and two mods on assemblies), which allows them to get better equipment than the other two classes can possibly have, and they can mod much more uniques than before too (this wiki page covers what they can mod and to what extent). Their masteries were still largely lousy though aside from Scavenger (which also got buffed in 0.9.9.8 to be able to scavenge armors, boots, and melee weapons), but that is getting addressed in 0.9.9.9 (the exact changes aren't finalized yet, but so far; Malicious Blades deals a lot more damage with blades; Fireangel gets larger explosions and can make all non-shotgun ranged weapons explosive; SoG now deals +3 damage per level in exchange for only -10% firing speed, which completely reverses Sharpshooter's early game hell; Scavenger gets even more trait freedom than before; and with indirect buffs like Tough As Nails giving 10% energy resistances per level and direct buffs like ammo reduction on subsequent chainfire volleys, Entrenchment is actually good now instead of horribly awful).

Non-pistol Technicians still have a much harder early game than Scouts and Marines though, as the modding advantage and improved masteries don't manifest until later into the game, and near-instant item use and turning Computer Maps into Tracking Maps are more situationally useful than 10% faster speed on all actions or extra HP + inherent energy resistances, while the starting Technical Mod also doesn't really immediately help much unless you're a Pistol build or you get an early vault with a Combat Shotgun or good armor in it. I'm not sure how this can be addressed though; your proposed extra ammo capacity isn't necessarily a bad idea, but it wouldn't help the Technician's harder early game, the area they're struggling most in. I had an idea where they could get one "mulligan" per floor with activating levers, i.e. they can trip a dangerous lever once per floor without it activating (as it fits into their "hacking" theme and levers are more potentially useful early in the game where healing and armor recovery is more limited), but that ability is situational too and could be a hassle to program. Perhaps Technicians will just have to be accepted as the class that starts out weaker, but has stronger potential in the end than Scouts and Marines do with being able to obtain superior equipment.

Also since you brought up the Marine's energy resistances, I thought to let you know they are being nerfed to 10% in 0.9.9.9, as the 20% proved too strong since it still stacked with berserk and armors (which made Vampyre stupidly broken and Ammochain borderline broken too). But that 10% will still stack with all other resistances, including the aforementioned buffed TaN, and so they'll still be noticeably more tanky than the other classes (even without any armor nor TaN they'll still be able to take a couple extra hits, while the difference becomes very pronounced once they do get strong armor to stack that resistance on).

 7 
 on: February 24, 2025, 21:36 
Started by Omega Tyrant - Last post by Omega Tyrant
Crates should be buffed/diversified, especially for late game.
Their utility early on is somewhat nice since you can find an armor or boots here or there, with the obvious prizes being ammo boxes... but their utility drops off as you advance along the game. In later levels you're not likely to find much of anything of use - if you open them in hell (or Beyond, for ao100), you're likely to still be getting just green armors, bullets, the occasion steel boots.

I'd like to propose that as levels increase, you can find other stuff that could be useful in the crates. The main idea would be plasma cells and rockets (their associated ammo boxes too maybe?), although there's plenty of other stuff to consider - medkitz, maps, phase devices, red armors... could even consider a mod pack here or there. This is without even considering if any uniques could have a super-low chance of appearing.

Crates are funny to blow up and see what goodies may be inside, and replicating that feeling beyond Phobos seems like it -shouldn't- be that difficult. It'll help add some more variance, and IMO shouldn't be too problematic, especially since in later levels a lot of enemies are prone to just destroying them along with any goodies they may contain. So it sets up its own sort of minigame of how to approach and dodge/tank if you want to try to open up the crate without the given enemy destroying it first.

I know stuff like exotics and rare mod packs are off the menu (maybe in Ao666?), but even with what I've mentioned above it feels like it'd improve the treasure hunting experience, so to speak.

As discussed in the Discord server, I'm in agreement with this. Crates mostly lose their value by mid Deimos, unless you're in need of health or are playing a Shotgun build that's really short on ammo. The current drop values for them are staticly:

Ammo crates = 30/40 nothing, 4/40 10mm Ammo, 4/40 Shells, 1/40 Ammochain Box, 1/40 Shell Box.

Armor crates = 45/60 nothing, 4/60 Green Armor, 4/60 Steel Boots, 4/60 Small Medkit, 1/60 Blue Armor, 1/60 Large Medkit, 1/60 Protective Boots.

Even the stuff that can still be useful in the later game (the ammo boxes, Large Medkits, and a backup backup Blue Armor) have very low drop rates, and so it's rarely worth your while to bother breaking crates beyond early Deimos. Ideally as the game progresses, you could up the drop rate on the aforementioned stuff and add some more stuff to the crates' drop table (such as other ammo types, Red armor, Plasteel Boots, Phase devices, maybe mods and a very very low chance for certain exotic armors/boots). If it's too much hassle to give crates a level-dependent drop table that improves over time, then perhaps "enhanced crates" can be added as a separate object that start appearing later in the game with the better stuff in them.

 8 
 on: February 24, 2025, 20:24 
Started by Sambojin - Last post by Sambojin
Ok, just as a thing. I love the Marine buff (+20% fire/acid/plasma resistance), because it makes them tanky af, just like they should be alongside +10HP.

But Technician always seemed a little light. Like, the thing they do is powerful, but not so all-is-everything-ness of their class.

So, what if they had half a Backpack, as their "other" basic skill. So +20% to ammo held.

And it only stacks with a real backpack addictively, not multiplicatively. +20% basic, then +60% with the backpack.

It just lets the class do literally everything it should do, because it's got basic 5-for-6 slots on its ammo. An extra item or two, matters a lot with this class.

Marines do HP and resistances (fortunately capped at 60% in Berserk), Scouts do fast everything and knowledge, Techs do a free mod and extra backpack space and fast items. As well as all their other bonuses. It makes them all surprisingly good at what they do, and they all seem different enough without RNG pickups or definite guaranteed items to do their roles well.

So, would +20% ammo (at start) work well on Technicians to give them the awesome amp they need?

 9 
 on: February 24, 2025, 18:41 
Started by Omega Tyrant - Last post by TNT
-Nightmare enemy only levels having a special message can be nice, but I'll note it's proposed to give them sounds (+ sounds to all the silent bosses too) and it has been discussed in the Discord, due to it seeming unintentional and the current modding grey area that exists with modding them in sounds yourself like I do (Kornel also mentioned he forgot to give them sounds when adding all the new Nightmare enemies).

-I wouldn't oppose the Acid Spitter reloading faster, but it ultimately wouldn't matter, as it's not a weapon you can reload with enemies around regardless, whether its reload time is 1.2 seconds or 0.1 seconds (reload time only matters when you got an enemy in vision/pursuit or some time sensitive event is going on). In any active combat scenario, you get one shot with it, and then you have to wait until the immediate threat is gone before you can get to scooping the acid back up.

-Yeah Enviroboots aren't great for plasma protection (only reducing blood damage from 12 to 9, 1 more than unmodded Plasteel Boots), but as mentioned in the Discord, it doesn't affect their usage that much; in A100 you're still building Cerberus Boots regardless, and in the standard game, they'll be virtually identical except with Enviroboots being worse for Limbo and the rare late blood cave but it won't require the massive mod cost that Cerberus Boots does, making Enviroboots still a very valuable find. So I would be ok with Enviroboots getting that plasma buff, or keeping it as is to give some extra flavor difference between them and Cerberus Boots.

1. Very interesting. Probably wouldn't be opposed to it, but it feels like it'd be a bit of a shock after all these years of silent Nightmare enemies. Even if the line changes though, glad to hear you do think having a feeling for it could be good.

2. Fair enough. It just seems like adding something unnecessary on top of it. It's a shame that it's so unwieldy since it's really fun to use.

3. I agree that some differentiation is nice, just feels like kinda unfortunate when you finally find it and there's no reason to pick it up ;_;

---

Having said all this, I think I'd like to bring up a topic that we've talked about before on the server.

Crates should be buffed/diversified, especially for late game.
Their utility early on is somewhat nice since you can find an armor or boots here or there, with the obvious prizes being ammo boxes... but their utility drops off as you advance along the game. In later levels you're not likely to find much of anything of use - if you open them in hell (or Beyond, for ao100), you're likely to still be getting just green armors, bullets, the occasion steel boots.

I'd like to propose that as levels increase, you can find other stuff that could be useful in the crates. The main idea would be plasma cells and rockets (their associated ammo boxes too maybe?), although there's plenty of other stuff to consider - medkitz, maps, phase devices, red armors... could even consider a mod pack here or there. This is without even considering if any uniques could have a super-low chance of appearing.

Crates are funny to blow up and see what goodies may be inside, and replicating that feeling beyond Phobos seems like it -shouldn't- be that difficult. It'll help add some more variance, and IMO shouldn't be too problematic, especially since in later levels a lot of enemies are prone to just destroying them along with any goodies they may contain. So it sets up its own sort of minigame of how to approach and dodge/tank if you want to try to open up the crate without the given enemy destroying it first.

I know stuff like exotics and rare mod packs are off the menu (maybe in Ao666?), but even with what I've mentioned above it feels like it'd improve the treasure hunting experience, so to speak.

 10 
 on: February 19, 2025, 06:43 
Started by Kornel Kisielewicz - Last post by Kornel Kisielewicz
BETA 6d (hopefully last one for now :P) is up!
Code: [Select]
0.9.9.9 BETA 6d
[mod] -- RCMOD : gun kata move firetime bonus is now 50%
[fix] -- RCFIX : fix pinkie AI crash
[fix] -- RCFIX : clear message for abyssal plains added
[fix] -- RCFIX : fix gun kata firetime bonus sometimes persisting 

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