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Messages - Omega Tyrant

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One small suggestion I have is changing the colour of Sniper Mod Pack so that it's distinguished from Firestorm Mod Packs. Currently they have identical colours. Maybe make it brown or green?

I would go with green, but it might get confused with uniques, so I'm not sure. Maybe you can make it a dark green to avoid the confusion.

Regarding trap power-ups, I'm leaning more towards disagreement as it would pretty fundamentally change the game where you need to be cautious about every item, as opposed to currently where the only caution is what's around the item. Potentially causing the player to avoid picking up anything, or needing to consider more luck factors in something that is already perceived as earned doesn't sit well with me.

I understand the concern, but as long as you keep it restricted to the proposed designated "trap rooms", you won't have to worry about the typical powerup/exotic/unique sprawled around being trapped. You'll just know something is up when you find an empty room with a big powerup or rare equipment in the middle, which any Doom player will be on alert when they see that setup, where it's then your decision to gamble with it.

A few more suggestions that were touched on earlier that I want to make into formal suggestions to add to the main post, as well as an entirely new suggestion:

*Increase the amount of EXP that Nightmare Demons give

Getting 95 EXP from such a dangerous enemy is a pathetically low amount, this is less than you get from Nightmare Imps, Cacodemons, Hell Knights, and even Elite Former Humans. This is also a big culprit behind Phobos Lab being so unrewarding, especially when the Elite Formers give you such a crazy amount of EXP in comparison. I would say bumping the amount of EXP that Nightmare Demons give to 263 is fair (which is equivalent to an Arachnotron), and see my first post on how even with that massive EXP increase, Phobos Lab still doesn't give you more EXP on UV/N! than Military Base does now.

*Decrease the EXP that Elite Formers give you

Conversely, Elite Formers give you a really high amount of EXP each, despite their threat not really meriting such a high amount of EXP, contributing to the huge disparity in EXP yield between Military Base and Phobos Lab. I would let Elite Former Commandos still give you 608 EXP, but I would nerf the EXP yield of the other Elite Formers by the following:

Elite Former Humans: 167 -> 128
Elite Former Sergeants: 320 -> 263
Elite Former Captains: 452 -> 320

*Buff Elite Formers in melee

A main reason why Military Base is a lot easier than Phobos Base is how you can easily lure the Elite Formers into melee range, where they are all weak except for the Elite Commando, who is instead just mediocre. You could just give them a damage bump of like +3 to +5, though I think it would be neat if you instead let them attack with a Combat Knife, which would fit the theme of them being elite fully-armed soldiers. I do not know if this is programmable however; if it isn't, then just give them a flat damage buff to their current melee attack.

*Add trapped powerups and items

One suggestion I seen when browsing old feature requests that I liked was adding trapped powerups and items, which would summon enemies around the player or flood the room with acid/lava when picked up, or any other adverse effect. This is one trademark mechanic from Doom that currently is sorely missing from DRL, which should fit seamlessly into a roguelike. In order to do it, perhaps you can create designated "trap rooms" in the same vein as ammo rooms, where in the middle there will be a powerup, rarely an exotic, or very rarely a unique, and then there's a random chance it'll spring some trap upon picking it up (though not always, sometimes the "obvious trap" is just a fakeout). Exact percentages for these outcomes can be discussed farther.

Regarding Technician modability, I think Grammaton Cleric Beretta and Medical Powerarmor taking basic assemblies would be fine. Necroarmor might be a bit odd as it could become indestructible with Onyx Pack, but I think it wouldn't be insane. Shielded Armor feels like it would be powerful, but looking at basic assemblies, it really wouldn't improve that much. I'm for all of them.

Considering Necroarmor has no resistances, its 6 protection isn't defending too well, so an Onyx mod on it definitely wouldn't make it crazy. And yeah a single mod slot can't do that much with Shielded Armor; it already reduces all physical hits to 1 damage and has infinite durability, so you can just make it less slow, or make it protect a bit better against energy attacks, where it would still be easily inferior at it to most other armors. Now if we could make it Cerberus, it would be an entirely different story, but that's obviously too overpowered to allow.

I think the proposed Environmental Boots with reducing damage to 1 could still work as a cheap, knock-off Cerberus Boots, allowing players to use Power Mod Packs for other gear, or getting something very resistant before Whizkid x2. Since you believe it would still be weak and unused, would you accept the suggested buffs?

I would be ok with it, just pointing out that with most boots, the current +75% resistances already reduces all fluid damage to 1. So it doesn't really change anything other than being able to use Steel Boots to hit the 1 damage from lava mark, and keeping a bit more protection when damaged.

Speedloader Pistols can be nice to avoid dangerous reloads in the early game, but it's definitely a bit underwhelming and very specialized. I think 0.4s reload speed would open it up more. It is still a Pistol that can no longer take Mod Packs like an unmodded Pistol.

I agree

Regarding Power Armor, fair points on it being a strong early armor when in Red Armor. One way that you could make it a nice all-in-one assembly is it takes a common armor and double Fire Resistance, triples Plasma Resistance, and quintuples Bullet/Shrapnel Resistance.

Oh yeah that would be a workable solution, lets go with that then.

Regarding the Glass Shield idea, I initially thought 50% durability, but it would only take one hit before the resistances get shattered. What if it was 95% all resistances and 50% durability?

Shields don't enter a damaged state, they maintain their full protection and resistances until destruction, so the proposed Glass Shield with 50% durability would still get 50 durability points to utilize its full resistances. As such, 50% durability with 80% omni-resistances should work.

For the Grappling Armor idea, it would be to help melee characters charge into enemies more, which can often just knock you back. Do you think +50% Melee Resistance would be too much?

Yeah +50% melee resistance would be too much for a simple basic assembly and would clearly outclass the Ballistic Armor assembly at that point. I think the +30% melee resistance you initially suggested is best balance wise.

There was some discussion on what uniques a Technican could mod but no depth into it yet. Currently, Cybernetic Armor is fully moddable, while Railgun and BFG 10K can take basic assemblies and an extra mod after. My suggestions are let Frag Shotgun and Jackhammer take a basic assembly too (which is either Plasmatic Shrapnel or a single mod), and let Revenant's Launcher be fully moddable, which probably would be strongest in Nanomanufacture without being broken. Maybe also have Anti-Freak Jackal take a basic assembly too.

I would agree with these suggestions, perhaps allow the GCB and Medical Powerarmor to take a single mod or basic assembly for Technicians too? Neither sound like they would get crazy, even if the latter gets the proposed buffs. I would maybe throw in the Necroarmor and Shielded Armor for being able to get a single mod/basic assembly as well, though those ones being moddable doesn't sound quite as fitting but would be within reasonable balance.

Thinking more about Environmental Boots, despite already making them BBT, I still think they wouldn't get used too much. How about buffing the resistances to 95% for both acid and lava, so players may opt for them over Cerberus Boots?

I'm not opposed to this but it wouldn't really change much; every pair of boots except for Steel Boots and Acid-Proof Boots already reduce lava damage to 1 with this assembly (the 75% resistance brings lava damage down to 3, so you just need 2 protection to bring it down to 1, which all the other standard and exotic boots already have). I suppose it would help them protect a bit better if they get damaged (notably yellow-damaged Gothic Boots with 47% fire resistance would still reduce lava damage to 1), but I don't think that is going to make anyone assemble them over Cerberus Boots. Making the assembly no longer require Power mods is the best we can do, so that people in the standard game looking for budget Cerberus Boots have an option without having to expend their precious Power mods.

I think Speedloader Pistol is pretty wasteful to only decrease reloading speed from 1.2s to 0.6s with no other changes. What if it were 0.4s instead?

I'm not opposed to this as I always found the assembly underwhelming, but I've seen people before swear by making them (particularly at the start of AoMr with a Technician courtesy of their free Technical mod). Would like to see Pistol specialists chime in on this.

I think Power Armor is expensive for not doing a whole lot overall. What if it tripled the original resistances instead of just double?

I disagree with this, Powered Red Armor is very good; it's really hard to beat an armor with 5 protection, 50% fire resistance, 25% melee resistance, no movement penalty, and regenerating durability (it essentially combines the Fireproof and Ballistic Armor assemblies together on Red Armor without the drawbacks, alongside a bigger speed buff than an Agility mod provides, half a Power mod, and 5% regeneration rate instead of the 2% just a Nano mod would provide). As a basic assembly, It also doesn't require Whizkid nor additional mods, and so is fast to make (if you get a Nano mod from Armory/Deimos Lab, you should be able to make it immediately if you didn't use a non-Power mod on your Red Armor yet or found another one). It's just that having very good armor is rarely going to be more desirable than the infinite ammo weapon or the insane speed boost of Antigrav Boots you can get with a Nano mod, short of the armor giving you literal IDDQD. I'll also note if you tripled the fire resistance to 75%, it would reduce nearly all fire damage to 1, with only very high damage rolls from Rocket Launchers being able to do more than 1 damage to it, which would crib on the Fireshield's niche. The only thing I would change about it is removing the knockback reduction, since Powered Red Armor is great armor for rocket jumping, but the knockback reduction nerfs it.

If you want to make Powered Blue Armor and Powered Green Armor actually possible viable options for this assembly however, perhaps you could make it so Powered Blue Armor gets tripled plasma resistance (60% plasma resistance could merit some consideration for an armor that would otherwise be outclassed by Powered Red Armor), and quintupled resistances for Powered Green Armor (well 75% Bullet and Shrapnel resistance still wouldn't save it, but reducing practically all damage from Formers down to 1 is something). I don't know if you could program it that way though without turning each of them into their own distinct assemblies (which would add unneeded annoyance to the Technician badges).

New exotic suggestion: Acid-Proof Armor, which is 3 Protection, 95% Acid Resistance, -10% move speed, and everything else normal. This would be a fairly unique armor that provides a difficult resistance to obtain, and allow for more options beyond Cerberus Armor in everything.

I like this idea, I'll note 80% acid resistance with 3 protection is enough to reduce even max damage Baron/Bruiser balls down to 1, so you could go with that to keep the rounding numbers when damaged clean. 95% works however if you want to maximize protection while the armor is damaged.

New exotic suggestion: Glass Shield, which is 0 Protection, 75% durability, 80% all resistances, but cannot be repaired or modded. Basically like the other shields, but with less lasting power and more well-roundedness.

75% durability is a weird number, and it wouldn't have that much less lasting power than other shields, especially when you won't have to worry about non-resisted hits getting through to take a big chunk out of it. I would go with 50% durability.

New exotic suggestion: Glass Armor, which is 0 Protection, 50% durability, 50% all resistances. It would either become Cybernano Armor, which would require committing to it and being expensive, or otherwise going with AOP/AOT/OPT.

I'm ok with this.

New assembly suggestion: Grappling Armor (BA), which is original +30% melee resistance and knockback -50%. This can be a nice early armor for melee characters, and would make use of a Bulk + Agility assembly, which is the only basic mod pack pair that doesn't exist as an assembly.

My concern is how this would largely overlap with Ballistic Armor in functionality, except you trade the less important bullet and shrapnel resistances for a big knockback reduction and no fire weakness. At least if my proposed Ballistic Armor buff goes through, Grappling Armor wouldn't be the clear better choice, so I would be sorta ok with this, though something a bit more unique would be preferred.

New assembly suggestion: Sniper Rifle (BAS) (Chaingun only), which is exactly the same as a Chaingun, but it has the auto-hit property. It'd give Chainguns a better buff for middle and late game, and wouldn't be too insanely overpowered I think.

Considering how outclassed the Chaingun is by the Plasma Rifle, I think it's ok to give it something, so after the early game it's not just there for rapid fire builds to conserve cells. And I agree a Chaingun with autohit wouldn't be broken, it could be changed to only firing two shots per burst if people think it would be too powerful. It also would be canonical with Doom, where double-tapping the Chaingun is the best sniping weapon :p

Eagerness Platinum was the last Platinum badge I could get without playing Nightmare, so I went and finally got it. Also took the opportunity to try out Gunrunner, which I have never used before. The run went pretty smoothly without much bumps. Hell's Armory got a bit dicey when I was below 50% health before the Shambler was released and I didn't have Gunrunner yet, but through careful maneuvering between the buildings, I was able to kill it without getting hit. Then Armory had an Onyx mod, which I used to make the uncommon Lava Boots since I was blocked out of Whizkid and the Tower Shield sucks, allowing me to get the Armory's Supercharge. Those Lava boots would prove very clutch later, as Hell had a lot of annoying lava rivers that I was able to just ignore. Also found a Nano mod shortly after Armory, which had a Super Shotty as well, but too bad Gunrunner blocks Whizkid, so I just went for Power Red Armor instead of being able to make the rest of the game free. Spider's Lair was a bit concerning with no medits for backup, but it didn't get too dicey with some careful play. Mortuary I was iffy on with no skulls nor guaranteed medkits on me, but it actually was one of the easiest UV Mortuary runs I had yet, Gunrunner could handle it pretty damn well. And then since I had Lava Boots and Power Red Armor, Mt. Erebus was free (while I also found out that the Lava Element gives you a full heal, so that's nice to know). Unfortunately no Invuln spawned on the penultimate floor, so no full win, but it was funny just being able to run at the Mastermind and repeatedly flinching it with the BFG and Super Shotty, getting me a free damageless win on it.

I sorta regret not taking Brute after Gunrunner, as with the Shielded Armor, I could have easily done Cathedral if I did and so had the rare opportunity to get a UV AoI Conqueror. The later game though maybe could have gotten gnarly if I delayed Intuition and more Finesse + Hellrunner on top of losing 20 max HP to clear The Vaults with the Scythe, so perhaps it was for the best.

Overall Gunrunner was pretty fun when it works how you want it to, but having no control over the automatic firing when running could be annoying. That, alongside the severe Whizkid block, significant additional investment needed (Shottyman is practically necessary despite not being a prerequisite), and the limitation of only working when running, hinders it greatly, but it is usable. I could have just went with Shottyhead, which was available at the same time after I went for Shottyman before Gunrunner, but things would get boring if I keep picking Shottyhead all the time. I would still put Gunrunner above Gun Kata though among the Scout masteries, at least the investment it requires to get going isn't as absurd as what Gun Kata needs.

Also really hoping lets Juggler work with any weapon swapping, it gets annoying have to exit out so much to modify my keybindings to use it with exotic/unique weapons. Anyway here is the mortem:

 DoomRL ( roguelike post-mortem character dump

 IMPATIENCE, level 15 Cyberdemon General Scout,
 defeated the Mastermind at the City of Dis.
 He survived 401211 turns and scored 360464 points.
 He played for 3 hours, 37 minutes and 9 seconds.
 He was a man of Ultra-Violence!

 He killed 1508 out of 1508 hellspawn. (100%)
 This ass-kicking marine killed all of them!
 He was an Angel of Impatience!

 He saved himself 5 times.

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 11
  Levels visited   : 9
  Levels completed : 9

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Cyberdemon's Head
  Mastermind's Brain
  Medal of Prejudice
  UAC Star (gold cluster)
  Aurora Medallion
  Grim Reaper's Badge
  Hell Armorer Badge
  Chessmaster's Token
  Hell Champion Medal
  Eagerness Platinum Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------


-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 115/60   Experience 114518/15
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +0  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Scout

    Ironman          (Level 1)
    Finesse          (Level 3)
    Hellrunner       (Level 3)
    Reloader         (Level 2)
    Juggler          (Level 1)
    Dodgemaster      (Level 1)
    Intuition        (Level 2)
    Shottyman        (Level 1)
    Gunrunner        (Level 1)


-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   plasma shield [0/0] (100%)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   super shotgun (9d4)x2 [0/2] (P1)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   tactical boots [0/0] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   nothing

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] elephant gun (12d3) [1/1]
    [b] tactical shotgun (8d3) [5/5]
    [c] rocket launcher (6d6) [1/1] (T1)
    [d] laser rifle (1d7)x5 [40/40] (T1)
    [e] missile launcher (6d7) [4/4] (P1)
    [f] nuclear BFG 9000 (8d6) [40/40]
    [g] BFG 9000 (10d6) [10/130] (B1)
    [h] powered red armor [5/5] (100%)
    [i] Angelic Armor [7/7] (100%)
    [j] chainsaw (5d6) (B)
    [k] shotgun shell (x54)
    [l] shotgun shell (x70)
    [m] shotgun shell (x70)
    [n] shotgun shell (x70)
    [o] rocket (x14)
    [p] rocket (x14)
    [q] rocket (x14)
    [r] rocket (x14)
    [s] power cell (x70)
    [t] power cell (x70)
    [u] lava protective boots [2]
    [v] shell box (x95)

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Plasma     - internal 0%    torso 95%   feet 0%   

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    110 former humans
    80 former sergeants
    56 former captains
    161 imps
    51 demons
    665 lost souls
    64 cacodemons
    28 hell knights
    57 barons of hell
    42 arachnotrons
    15 former commandos
    61 pain elementals
    34 revenants
    26 mancubi
    31 arch-viles
    7 elite former humans
    5 elite former sergeants
    5 elite former captains
    2 elite former commandos
    2 bruiser brothers
    1 shambler
    1 lava elemental
    1 agony elemental
    1 Cyberdemon
    1 Spider Mastermind
    1 Arena Master

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 2 he entered Hell's Arena.
  He left the Arena as a champion!
  On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
  He defeated the Hell Arena Master!
  On level 5 he found the Arena Master's Staff!
  On level 7 he marched into the Military Base.
  On level 7 he assembled a tactical boots!
  He purified his fellow comrades.
  On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
  On level 9 he entered Hell's Armory.
  On level 9 he assembled a elephant gun!
  On level 9 he assembled a lava boots!
  He destroyed the evil within and reaped the rewards!
  On level 10 he assembled a power armor!
  On level 11 he arrived at the Containment Area.
  He emerged from the Containment Area victorious!
  On level 12 he found the Shielded Armor!
  On level 12 he assembled a fireproof armor!
  On level 12 he found the City of Skulls.
  He wiped out the City of Skulls.
  On level 13 he assembled a tactical shotgun!
  On level 14 he ventured into the Spider's Lair.
  He cleared the Lair, kickin' serious spider ass!
  On level 16 he found the Tower of Babel!
  On level 18 he found the Berserker Armor!
  On level 20 he was foolish enough to enter the Mortuary!
  On level 20 he found the Angelic Armor!
  He managed to clear the Mortuary from evil!
  Level 21 blasted him with an unholy atmosphere!
  On level 22 he found the Cybernetic Armor!
  On level 22 he arrived at Mt. Erebus.
  He managed to raise Mt. Erebus completely!
  Then at last he found Dis!
  On level 24 he finally defeated the Mastermind.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched!
 You quickly reload the BFG 9000. Your power battery is depleted.
 The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched!
 The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched!
 The missile hits the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched!
 You prepare the super shotgun instantly!
 The Spider Mastermind flinched! The Spider Mastermind flinched!
 The Spider Mastermind flinched!
 The Spider Mastermind flinched! The Spider Mastermind flinched!
 The Spider Mastermind flinched! The Spider Mastermind flinched!
 The Spider Mastermind flinched! The Spider Mastermind flinched!
 The Spider Mastermind flinched! The Spider Mastermind flinched!
 The Spider Mastermind flinched! The Spider Mastermind flinched!
 The Spider Mastermind dies. Congratulations! You defeated the Spider
 Mastermind! Press <Enter>...
 You feel relatively safe now.

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 186 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 69 of those were killed.
 48 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 6 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 63 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 6 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 32 killed the bitch and survived.
 25 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.


Regarding Every Soldier's Medal, I wouldn't be opposed to making it what Brick Silver Badge currently is. It would need a name change though since "Every Soldier" is used because of Angel of Humanity. How about "Soldier's Medal - Clear The Wall/Containment Area on Angel of Berserk, Angel of Marksmanship, or Angel of Shotgunnery"?

Doesn't sound too fitting of a name but I'm not too plussed about what the name is changed to with this proposal, so I'll go with it if no better suggestion is provided.

Regarding Thomas's Medal, if you prefer it switched with Everyman Platinum Badge, we can change them so that the proposed Thomas's Medal is completing Angel of Humanity on Ultra-Violence, and have Everyman Platinum Badge be unchanged with completing Angel of Humanity as a conqueror (except for now disallowing Dual-Angel games). My only suggestion is that Thomas's Medal would need to block Angel of Confidence and Angel of Overconfidence. I actually really like the idea of switching them because then Everyman Platinum Badge can block Dual-Angel challenges and be much more appropriately challenging, and it goes more canonically with Everyman Diamond Badge, which is the same but on Ultra-Violence.

I think having it be beating UV in AoH would be too plain, and so prefer my suggestion. But I would like to hear from Kornel or someone else in the know on the reasoning behind the medal's existence and why it's named after Thomas, so we can ensure coming up with something that maintains the spirit of the medal. Either way I agree with having it and the Everyman badges block those Dual-Angel challenges.

Regarding ammo rooms, there are generated by rolling 1d3 + dlevel. 0-4 is Bullets, 5-10 is Shells, 11-12 is Rockets, and 13+ is Cells. What if instead of the dlevel formula, it was something like: 2% 1d2 Cell Boxes, 2% 1d2 Rocket Boxes, 3% 1d2 Shell Boxes, 3% 1d2 Bullet Boxes, 20% 1d3 + 2 Cells, 20% 1d3 + 2 Rockets, 25% 1d3 + 2 Shells, and 25% 1d3 + 2 Bullets? This would have some pretty wild impacts on the game with Cells being a fair bit harder to find with other weights overtaking the current 100% in deep floors, there would be more emphasis on ammo boxes being available (which may be hurting Reloader trait), and the early game could get wild with lucky ammo boxes.

I would put a Power Battery at 1%, to be consistent with its current rarity compared to other ammo boxes, with that remaining 1% being thrown wherever else. Otherwise I agree with this.

Regarding Unexplored Star, if it didn't have a difficulty restriction, it would be possible to play on ITYTD, and even HTNR is pretty easy. That said, it couldn't hurt to have some easier new medals.

The idea is mainly a reverse-Conqueror, which itself doesn't have any difficulty restrictions; a bonus acknowledgement for doing a particular feat in a run that made it more difficult regardless of difficulty, which then could be similarly tacked on as a secondary requirement for certain badges (as in the proposed Berserker Diamond change, but perhaps a couple other badges could require it too). I suppose you could restrict ITYTD from getting it though, since not all special levels are available there.

Regarding "Gatekeeper Angelic Badge", the Spider Mastermind is cake by using Intuition and cornershooting it to death. The AI stuck strat is useful when you don't have Intuition, such as for builds with it blocked, or a challenge like Everyman Angelic Badge. I think your suggestion would be way too easy for an Angelic Badge as there are a bunch of players who have done Elite + Veteran Angelic Badge combos without extensive difficulty. Gatekeeper Angelic Badge would really just devolve into finding Invulnerability on floor 7 nearby the exit, having Dodgemaster, and having Intuition.

I'll take your word for it.

Regarding Every Soldier's Medal, I can agree it could be replaced with a different idea. Got any good ones?

We could just replace it with one of the prior suggested new medals, or if Kornel tells us of any lore reason behind this medal's existence, perhaps we could think up a new one that keeps the spirit but is more special to actually get. Conversely, perhaps we take current Brick Silver and change it into a medal that replaces this, it always seemed more fitting as a medal challenge.

Regarding Thomas's Medal, I wouldn't be opposed to swapping it out either. Keep in mind though that Everyman Platinum Badge is suggested to be changed to simply completing Angel of Humanity on Ultra-Violence, so they're not the same if that goes through. I believe the medal is also designed after a player, so he might not be thrilled with it getting changed or removed.

I'm aware of your proposal to change Everyman Platinum, I just prefer how it currently is, which I find to be a more unique challenge among Platinums, particularly how it's one of the very few you can still get on HNTR difficulty but isn't unfitting to be available at that difficulty (and either way I would still say Thomas's Medal should get changed). As for who Thomas is and why this medal is named after him, Kornel would need to expound on that as I'm not aware of the lore behind it, though I believe my suggestion of extending the medal to cover other challenges where Conqueror runs are especially difficult would still maintain the spirit of the medal.

Regarding ammo rooms, I agree. There are lots of ways this could be changed and weighted. I think that it should be prevented of giving Rockets or Cells too early though. Perhaps as a rare weight, they could also be mixed, and also include ammo boxes?

You can keep the current setup where rockets and plasma don't start showing up until a minimum floor, just they won't be the only ammo that shows up once you get deep enough for them to appear. But I also wouldn't mind just letting them be able to appear whenever though, it does suck finding a very early Rocket Launcher in a vault and then having no ammo to actually use it until later Phobos. Ammo boxes being rare drops in them would be neat too I think.

I was doing some thinking and realized my proposed time limit for Speedrunner Angelic Badge of 10 minutes would actually be a lot tighter for the potential new version with Scout's stair sense nerfed and Intuition also nerfed. If these changes go through, I think this badge should be 12 minutes.

I agree with this, I would rather err on the side of caution with ensuring this badge doesn't remain impossible. If 12 minutes ends up proving too easy, it can always be lowered in a later version.

Regarding the medal for clearing a boss floor, I think it depends on how well a game is going because generally when you get far enough that boss floors could start appearing, you should be pretty well-equipped. Nonetheless, if you think it would be hard, then I'd agree to have it. For the name, I considered something like "Boss Slayer Cross", but was wondering if it would be silly with the rhyming. I'm fine either or.

I think you will usually be able to handle them by the time they can appear, but having to play on at least UV difficulty for them to even appear, the luck needed to find any of them, and them having the potential to get gnarly if you don't have the right equipment/build, I think makes it plenty hard enough without restricting it to just Cyberdemon levels.

I like your medal idea for skipping all bonus floors, but I think it would require restrictions to be Ultra-Violence, and also not allowing Angel of Confidence, Angel of Overconfidence, Angel of 100, or Archangel of 666. How about we scrap my "Gambler's Star" idea (which thinking about it more would probably be pretty trivial), and go with yours with a name like "Unexplored Star"?

I don't think restricting it to UV/N! is necessary, but yeah restricting it from those challenges is a must. I also agree with replacing the idea of "Gambler Star" and your proposed name unless someone else has a better name for it.

Regarding Gatekeeper Badges, we can leave Platinum and Diamond as is and just change Gold. However, I disagree with the idea for Gatekeeper Angelic Badge as that would mostly just be Phobos Anomaly as Tower of Babel and Dis are pretty easy to clear without damage. I also think all Angelics should require winning the game and not just achieving something mid-game.

I don't think Dis would be so simple to no damage if the Mastermind's AI is fixed so you can't get it stuck, as you proposed, and after beating Anomaly damageless, you would then need to not choke the run the rest of the way on Nightmare difficulty. Also beating Dis wins the game, so you would have to win the game to get this badge :p

I like your idea about Heroic Angelic Badge. Initially, I thought it would be too easy since most medals aren't too hard, but thinking about it more, 50 challenges of varying difficulty is still tough to do them all, and I didn't realize how few players had them all. To fit it into the 25 badge count, how about we scrap "Humanity Angelic Badge"? I think having only one Archangel Angelic Badge is a nicer look and that's the only challenge that has two at the moment.

If Kornel decides to go with 25 badges for each tier, I would agree with scrapping the Humanity Angelic idea for Heroic Angelic


Got yet another few suggestions I thought about.

*Replace Every Soldier's Medal or change its criteria

Currently, this medal requires beating The Wall in Angel of Humanity, but unless I'm missing some ancient Chaosforge lore behind this medal, I don't get why it exists. Beating The Wall in AoH isn't anything special to begin with, most other special levels are going to be much harder in AoH. There's also already two other medals for AoH, while most other challenges don't have specific medals for them; I would rather have more generically applicable medals, or if one must remain restricted to a challenge, make it an actually special feat (I think Spider's Killer Cross is ok in this regard, because that level does get a lot more imposing when you have so little max HP to work with). If this medal is to remain as is, it at least needs to include Containment Area too, because it makes no sense to exclude what is essentially a harder version of The Wall, and it makes this medal needlessly annoying to get when half your AoH runs won't even have a chance to get it (though I much prefer just removing it or changing its criteria into something completely different).

*Replace Thomas's Medal or change its criteria

Icy's suggestion to remove this medal's redundancy with Humanity Platinum's was to change that badge's criteria, but I would rather that badge remain as is and instead replace or change this medal. Like I said before, I don't like how there are multiple medals for just AoH, and I also don't really understand why AoH gets its own medal for a Conqueror run, when many other challenges are around as hard or even harder to do the same in (like I'll do a Conqueror run in AoH over AoD and AoRA any day). Perhaps change Thomas's Medal to completing a Conqueror run in any of the following challenges: AoH, AoP, AoD, AoMs, AoI, and AoRA (as well as in each of their respective Archangel challenges). I think each of these challenges are especially difficult for Conqueror runs, so completing that feat should be awarded, and it would make this medal not laser-focused to a single challenge.

*Make ammo rooms more randomized

Currently there is little-to-no randomization with the ammo you get from ammo rooms; all ammo that spawns in an ammo room is the same instead of being able to be a variety, and the ammo that does spawn is static based on the dlevel. Egregiously, once you reach dlevel 12, ammo rooms will only ever have plasma cells from that point forward, which constitutes half the standard game and near 90% of A100. Aside from making little sense why ammo rooms are this restricted in their randomization, it also makes these rooms less useful than they could be. It's particularly annoying to shotgun and pistol builds, whose primary ammo becomes more scarce later in the game, and so end up usually becoming reliant on Formers to maintain their ammo as a result, sometimes even having to farm them near Archviles to not run out of ammo. Ammo rooms being able to have all types of ammo throughout the game will make them useful more often, and will help make the aforementioned shotgun and pistol builds less reliant on the ammo drops of Formers in the lategame.

Looking forward to your second compilation post.

Regarding my proposed Cyberdemon Cross medal, it is a good point that it could be very luck-based since they're very rare and it's common to go through Archangel of 666 without finding any. However, expanding it to various bosses does make it a bit too easy I think. It's also worth noting that there are no special level feeling messages for Agony Elementals and Lava Elementals (although this could be another feature to add). How about instead we have "Boss Slayer Medal - Clear a boss complex on Angel of 100 / Archangel of 666 on Ultra-Violence"?

I would disagree on it being too easy, since you can still go an entire A100 run on UV without finding any of the boss levels, and you still need to clear them if you do get lucky enough to find one. I would agree with adding special level feeling messages for Agony Elemental and Lava Elemental caves, as well as the proposed name, but maybe "Boss Slayer Cross" instead to make it sound a bit more special?

We can scrap Purity Medal and Shottyman Medal as proposed. How about "Gambler's Star - Pull 100 levers or more in Angel of 100 / Archangel of 666", and "Vash's Cross - Kill the Spider Mastermind using Trigun's Angel Arm"?

Those sound alright if no better ideas are proposed. One alternative idea I just thought of is a medal for beating the game without entering any of the special levels; considering there should always be at least one special level, if not quite a few, that are easy for your build, not entering any of them is going to make the game harder without that extra EXP and guaranteed loot. Even stair divers would have to miss out on the Chainsaw + berserk stack from The Chained Court and being able to take shortcuts through certain special levels to exit floors faster. If this medal is added, perhaps you could also change Berserker Diamond to beating N! with this medal, as winning without the early guaranteed Chainsaw nor Spear/Scythe would make things a lot harder, but you will no longer need to grind kills (but would it become too hard for a Diamond?).

For Brick Silver Badge, what if it were instead "Clear The Wall/Containment Area on Angel of Light Travel"? It would make it appropriately challenging by forcing the player to bring a Rocket Launcher and some Rockets, taking up a couple of precious inventory slots, followed by still needing room to clear it after.

If it were to remain a Silver badge, I would be fine with this, but if it's turned into a Gold badge, I would be fine with it remaining as is.

Part of my personal vision with Angelic Badges would be that top players should be able to achieve a large number of them if they have enough grit and committment to go for them, but it would most likely be too time-consuming to attempt all 25. It keeps the upper limit of the game open without being impossibly hard as it currently is. It could be really cool to see a dedicated god to the game chip away and get into the 20s. Alongside that, many different players could have different combinations in their collection, instead of right now devolving into getting Shotgunnery, then Lightfoot, then branching off a tiny bit from there, and then getting stuck.

I agree with this philosophy; true 100% completion should be an extremely lofty goal, but still achievable to anyone that really wants it or after a very long time, rather than being outright impossible as it is now. Also badge collections should definitely be more unique among players as you stated.

Regarding Gatekeeper Platinum and Diamond Badges, I disagree with swapping them. Platinum with passing Phobos Anomaly without damage on Nightmare is basically just finding Invulnerability nearby on floor 7 and zipping through. Diamond with clearing it on Ultra-Violence and then also Tower of Babel is generally harder to do. However, it could be more canonical if Gatekeeper Badges didn't include Tower of Babel. What if Gatekeeper Diamond Badge was clearing Phobos Anomaly on Nightmare without taking damage?

I overlooked that current Gatekeeper Diamond requires actually clearing Anomaly, while Gatekeeper Platinum doesn't, my mistake. If they were swapped around, then yes the new Gatekeeper Diamond would have to require clearing it in addition to no damage. However, after thinking it through, I would be fine leaving them as is; having a few easier Diamonds isn't necessarily a bad thing, and there should be a decent amount of Diamonds that are obtainable without playing N!, given a lot of players prefer playing UV.

Building off this, perhaps we could make a "Gatekeeper Angelic", that requires clearing all of Anomaly, Babel, and Dis without any damage on N!? While nuking any of them wouldn't count.

I like your suggestion for Hunter Platinum Badge, although it likely will just turn into cheesing a respawn near the end of the game, but that's on the player if they decide to do that.

I can see wanting to discourage grinding respawns, mainly suggested it to build of of Hunter Gold that has a kill requirement. I would be fine with a different secondary condition (maybe beating it under 40,000 turns to encourage rushing through a challenge that otherwise encourages slow play, if it's not too hard for a Platinum?), or just leaving it at beating AoD on UV.

Regarding the Apostle, I do agree he's cake, but it would be pretty frustrating to grind through Angel of 100 / Archangel of 666 and then die to him. Especially with the suggested proposal of creating a guaranteed method of getting Dragonslayer and Berserker Armor in those games, players would become even more likely to fight the Apostle in that game type. Additionally, the architecture of the level stays in one piece, so him teleporting around means you can just camp until he finds you again, killing the Nightmare Demons and other enemies while waiting. I'd have to think about this suggestion more.

I do get it could be frustrating to die to him, but you do have to go out of your way to encounter him (you certainly have no reason to ever wear Berserker Armor unless you want the Apostle Insignia or a full win in A100/666), and there should be some risk to encountering him. I also don't think camping would be too effective; aside from the fact you'll get gradually worn down by the reviving enemies and eternally spawning Nightmare Demons, his health also regenerates, so wait around too long and he'll just get most or even all of his health back.


Heroic Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum/Diamond Badges - Change these values to 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, if we change the medal count to 50.

I also overlooked this one from before, perhaps add Heroic Angelic, and set the split for each of the badges at 5/15/25/35/45/50? Would be a little weird to have the Heroic series skip the Angelic tier, and according to the Badge Hunters thread, Heroic Diamond is currently one of the rarest Diamond badges (with only papilio and Tormuse having it, as well as you I think?), so I don't think it would be out of place in the Angelic tier (you could add a new especially hard medal if you think it would be too easy for an Angelic). With these proposed splits, you would also get Gold at the halfway point, which makes intuitive sense to me, and while you only have five medals left after getting Diamond, those remaining five are also probably going to be the hardest and most annoying to get.

Everything I don't address I am in agreement with as you proposed.

I think a nice change could be having 25 of each badge for a nice rounded number, instead of 26. This includes Angelic Badges.

26 is a weird number but I would be fine either way, I certainly won't miss annoying badges like the Scavenger Platinum/Diamond badges if they were removed. Alternatively, we bump them up to 30 if people would rather not see any content removed, shouldn't be too hard to think up of a few more badge ideas for each tier?

Apostle in-game ranking requires 50 JC kills, which is fairly tedious and the point tends to get made fairly early on. It could be left as is to encourage it as a long-term goal, but I think in terms of grinding for rankings, 25 would be fine. I'm open to this being rejected though.

I don't think this one is bad, having a few more XP rankings to build up more gradually to it would be better I think. I also got stuck before reaching Cyberdemon for a long time because just killing 100 Cyberdemons was a big jump from what Archvile rank required, and I didn't want to go farm Cyberdemons in A666 just to advance the XP rank faster (in fact with your proposal, I would have reached the requirement for Apostle rank faster than I did with the Cyberdemon rank). Also maybe put the JC kill requirements for a different rank and save Apostle rank for actually getting Apostle kills?

Cyberdemon Cross - Enter and exit a Cyberdemon complex alive.

First thing, I would extend this to covering any boss-only level (maybe including Agony Elemental and Lava Elemental caves if it's possible to program it that way, as well as an Angel of Death complex if that gets added alongside the AoD getting added to A100/666). Would require less luck than finding a very specific level type that's very rare, and the other boss-only levels could be even harder (for example I think a Shambler level will usually be harder, and Agony Elemental caves are hell for most builds that don't have a Nano Super Shotgun or Biggest Fucking Gun handy). Secondly, it should require the player to clear the level to get this medal, to make it more of an achievement and so you can't just immediately homing phase out to get this medal.

Scavenger Medal - Create 15 or more assemblies (maybe require them to all be different too?).

I would agree with making it require 15 different assemblies. Also name it "Technician Medal", to avoid any confusion with the Scavenger series of badges that have nothing to do with assemblies.

Purity Medal - Kill JC on Angel of Purity.

Shottyman Medal - Win Angel of Shotgunnery with 100% kills.

I would rather have new medals that could be more generically applied instead of being challenge-locked (unless it's for A100 as I mentioned in my initial suggestions post). I also don't like these suggestions; I'm assuming the Lava Element still works in AoP (because otherwise how could you get that medal), in which case it's really not much different from getting a normal full win (you could no longer rely on a random Invuln spawning, but most people going for a full win just get the Lava Element), and with the latter suggestion, there really isn't anything particularly special nor challenging about it, while it would be inconsistent to have that but not an equivalent medal for AoMr.

UAC Cross - Kill 10,000 or more enemies.

I would change this to 2500 kills, so that it's still obtainable in A100 with sufficient reasonable effort (would require some farming on HNTR, killing near 100% on HMP, and still killing most things on UV and N!, bump it to 3000 kills to keep it more exclusive to UV/N!). I'm not keen on a medal that is essentially A666-exclusive.

Brick Silver Badge - This challenge is fairly annoying, but I personally like it and wanted to mention not changing it.

I'm fine with it staying, but would rather it become a Gold badge, since it requires a lot more concentrated effort to get than other Silvers and most Golds. You could have it swap places with Scavenger Gold (which is ridiculously trivial for a Gold), and in effect remove current Scavenger Silver (why does this one even exist).

I would say for going from 26 to 25, remove Armorer Gold Badge (other associated changes below).

Change Armorer Platinum Badge to requiring finding all exotics/uniques. Finding 1,000 either devolves into spamming Angel of Overconfidence games where you drop your starting gear, pick them up, then repeat, or alternatively with playing properly, finding duplicates of exotics and uniques within the same game still only counts as 1, so this is a massive grind of games to get to 1,000. Both methods are pretty unappealing. If for canonical reasons that having "Armorer X Badge" for each type except for Gold, we could change "Armorer Platinum/Diamond Badge" to something like Collector Platinum Badge and Collector Diamond Badge.

I think it would be weird for the Armorer series to skip having a Gold badge and think they're mostly fine as is, with maybe bumping down what Armorer Platinum requires. However, there wouldn't really be a better candidate among the current Golds to remove if my proposal of swapping the tier of Brick Silver and Scavenger Gold is done (maybe Longinus Gold, because that's trivial unless you change it to require no Brute), so I would be ok with cutting Armorer Gold and going with your rename idea of "Collector Platinum/Diamond".

Berserker Platinum Badge - This badge is fairly similar to Gargulec Cross. Maybe change it to no kill count required, but on Nightmare difficulty?

I rather remove the kill requirement and keep it on UV difficulty to differentiate it more from Gargulec Cross. The Berserker series shouldn't skip UV difficulty, and changing Berserker Platinum to require Nightmare would also make the Gargulec Cross essentially require its own dedicated run to get (can't get it alongside the lower tier Berserker badges, and trying to get it on Nightmare is lunacy).

For going from 26 to 25, I would say remove Scavenger Platinum Badge since it's a bit silly and the optimal way to earn this is not so much by "luck", but by spamming Azrael's Scythe's Whisper of Death.

For going from 26 to 25, I would say remove Scavenger Diamond Badge for the same reasons as mentioned above.

I alluded to earlier that I would like these badges be changed even if my proposal of swapping Cathedral and Vaults goes through (which would invalidate the Whisper of Death cheese), so these would definitely be my pick to go if we're rounding out the badges to 25 each. Purely luck-based badges are very annoying, and their presence just encourages people to save scum to get them out of the way (though if my proposal to make Vaults harder on harder difficulties also goes through, getting Scavenger Diamond could be tricky to get even if you do get the luck to phase into the central vault, and it we're keeping Brick Silver, Scavenger Platinum/Diamond isn't out of place).

Arena Diamond Badge - Change this to Ultra-Violence as this badge is significantly harder than every other Diamond Badge. This is the only one Papilio never earned and he seemingly gave up on it, despite earning most if not all of the other purely.

My stance on this hinges on the proposal to give Hell's Arena different enemy loadouts based on the challenge. If that proposal goes through and AoB appropriately gets an easier Hell's Arena, then this badge can stay as is. If that proposal cannot be done however, then yes bump it down to UV.

Hunter Angelic Badge - Complete Archangel of Darkness on Nightmare (assuming this gets added).

Agree with this, but in the event that Archangel of Darkness isn't added but this badge is, it could alternatively be beating Angel of Darkness on Nightmare as a Conqueror?

Demonic Angelic Badge - This is basically an open slot for a new idea lol. Maybe Archangel of 666 on Ultra-Violence with 100% kills?

I would like the idea to reward people crazy enough to get 100% kills in A666 on UV, but I also don't want to have to force such a massive grind requirement on anyone. That would also not adhere to the theme of the Demonic series all requiring N! difficulty. Maybe build off of Demonic Diamond and have it be 100% kills with Untouchable Medal in a standard N! game? Or if that's still unobtainable, 100% kills + Untouchable Badge in standard N!?


I also got some more suggestions of my own:

*In mortems, highlight badges with colors of their respective tiers

Just a nice QoL thing to make the badges pop out more when looking over your mortem at the end and to give that extra dopamine rush when getting the harder badges. Could also have obtained badges highlighted in their respective colors in the Player Info's badge collection screens. Could give medals their own unique highlight too, but I don't know what coloring for them.

*Change Gatekeeper Gold to getting past Anomaly without damage on at least HNTR or HMP. Additionally swap Gatekeeper Platinum and Diamond

Current Gatekeeper Gold is very trivial, with only Scavenger and Longinus being able to compete with being the easiest Gold, while it is also basically redundant with Cyberdemon's Head (the only way you won't always get both simultaneously is if you play ITYTD). My suggestion to keep it focused on Anomaly with a harder difficulty would be a much more appropriate Gold-level challenge and a more natural progression from Gatekeeper Silver, while the fact Anomaly completely lacks the ambush on ITYTD makes avoiding damage a much different challenge on harder difficulties. As for my second suggestion, I would say current Gatekeeper Platinum is more imposing than Gatekeeper Diamond, when the Cyber is still practically free to no damage on UV as long as you got Dodgemaster, leaving getting past Anomaly as the main stumbling block (and then just not dying until you reach Cybie, which isn't going to be that much harder if you're good enough to get to Deimos on UV). Anomaly also becomes much harder on N! with the addition of nightmare enemies. If you think it would be weird to go from having the additional damageless Babel requirement to not having it, then just have both Gatekeeper Platinum and Diamond require it on their respective difficulties.

*Change Hunter Platinum to completing Angel of Darkness on UV with 75% kills (or any other reasonable kill percent)

I mentioned before that I don't like the idea of a badge series skipping UV, and currently the Hunter series does that. It additionally doesn't make much sense, as going from HMP to UV in AoD would be a big jump in difficulty, whereas current Hunter Diamond isn't really that much more difficult than Hunter Platinum. I haven't looked through the mortems, but I would assume the vast majority of players who got both Hunter Platinum and Diamond knocked both of them out at once (all Hunter Diamond really requires beyond Hunter Platinum is saving a Homing Phase for Mortuary/Limbo, and maybe having one for Phobos Lab/Military Base and Halls of Carnage). This change should be a more natural progression of the Hunter badges.

*Make the Apostle possibly challenging?

For a super secret final boss, the Apostle is a huge disappointment. Ignoring that he is just a super Archvile, he does have some qualities that could be threatening; a 40 damage plasma attack with a huge explosion radius is actually pretty damn scary even if you're berserked, when you're stuck in the horribly slow Berserker Armor that has no plasma resistance. He also teleports around and regenerates. But you get in once, you just hit him two-four times and then he dies possibly before he could even retaliate. I have a couple suggestions that could make the Apostle possibly come somewhat close to living up to its status:

1: Increase the Apostle's HP to 500
2: Have the Apostle immediately teleport whenever it is hit

He has 30 armor sure, but when you're berserked with the Dragonslayer and likely have several levels of Brute, that 30 protection ain't making that much of a difference in surviving longer than Carmack and the Mastermind (in fact on average, they are surviving one to two more hits than the Apostle does against a berserked Dragonslayer even with no Brute). Additionally, have him immediately teleport away when hit, so that the player can't just get in once and mash click to win. This would make his health regeneration matter, and the enemies he revive will become a bigger problem with wearing you down as you chase him around the map. These changes could admittedly make him annoying and drawn out, but an annoying drawn out fight is much more climatic than the complete disappointment he is now.

I'll note the Bullet-Proof Vest already reduces all possible bullet damage from enemies in the game down to 1 (max damage Combat Pistol does 9, which 80% resistance brings down to 2 and then the point of protection reduces to 1). But maintaining higher resistances when damaged is something to buff it at least, for an armor whose inherent idea is just not going to have a real niche unless a much more damaging enemy bullet attack is introduced into the game. I will say it definitely need its generation weight significantly increased; it currently has a weight of 4, being less common than most of the exotic armors that are much better than it (is the rarity to prevent people from getting disappointed when they find it?). Its weight should be at least 6 to tie it with the most common non-item exotics, but you could make it even higher if it's ok to go higher than 6 for non-item exotics. Maybe you could give it a slight move speed bonus too if you really want to try making it viable beyond being a Green Armor alternative in Phobos, but a Bullet-Proof Vest making you faster wouldn't really make any sense.

I agree with the rest of your suggestions and have nothing more to add to them.

Regarding different challenges affecting Hell's Arena and dual-challenges, a simple solution would be letting the "harder" challenge take priority, instead of planning out every combination of challenge possible.

I would figure that would be the case, as yes planning out for every Dual-Angel combination is impractical.

Regarding Angel of Death, alright I can lean into it, but definitely make it not possible to respawn, similar to Pain Elementals, Lava Elementals, and Cyberdemons.

I'm assuming the AoD wouldn't leave a respawnable corpse (I'm pretty sure he doesn't already, but I would need to verify it). If he does, then that would definitely need to be fixed to not be respawnable like most other bosses.

Regarding Juggler and ammo boxes in case you misinterpreted, I mean to say that should it be possible to juggle ammo boxes in and out from inventory to the prepared slot as well?

Ah I see, my mistake. In that case, it would be a neat addition, though I wouldn't be bothered if that wasn't implemented.

I like the idea of Tactical Set giving Dodgemaster since it would still not be overpowered, is easily outclassed by builds having Dodgemaster, and builds that have it blocked could then access Dodgemaster. The only concerns though is that it does heavily devolve the Cyberdemon fight to whether or not you have Dodgemaster, even if it already basically is.

The Cyberdemon being so easily trivialized by Dodgemaster is a bit lame, maybe that strat could be nerfed in some way? Perhaps the Cyberdemon's AI has a random chance to aim at a tile to the side of you (like a 25% or 30% chance), and if the player moves towards the direction of that tile, it makes that dodge attempt fail? Not sure if that's programmable though.

I'm not a fan of the toggle idea for Schematics as it seems slightly silly. Could it be possible to just simply let it be an additional item in the locked room that doesn't show up if you already have all the assemblies?

Having Schematics be a separate drop that doesn't take up the spot of a rare mod is also a good idea, as losing out on the rare mod are players' gripe with the Schematics mechanic.

Regarding an in-game rankings, the two main things I'm hesistant about it are that the implementation of it may require some sort of login system so that the leaderboard isn't accidentally filled with multiple entries of the same player, and also so you can update yourself. The other thing is that it only takes 1 cheater to spoil the whole thing and it would likely devolve into a lot of headaches and drama. I thought I would bring it up for some extra opinions, but I'd actually lean against it. I think a simple forum thread might be better.

I do agree with these points and am not enthused by the idea, while I imagine the community around DRL would want to avoid said drama (e.g. why no one ever called out 2dev or VANDAM about their impossibly grandiose claims when they were around). Would certainly like to hear what others think about it.

Regarding Technical Packs in armors, being limited to only one per armor is a good point that the values should be higher. 20% Melee/Bullet/Shrapnel and 10% Plasma/Acid/Fire would be a lot, but I suppose in the lens of Power Packs reducing 2 damage from each type, it doesn't seem as insane. Looking through the possible armors it could be applied to, I think it wouldn't lead to anything broken. We would just need to be sure that as a part of an assembly, it doesn't apply its resistances on top of the assembly itself, like how the other Mod Packs currently work.

It would also be balanced by the fact applying both a Power and Technical mod would mean you have to give up a mod slot for a big speed boost from an Agility mod or boosted/infinite durability from a Bulk/Onyx mod (and there would be more interesting choices to make with what mods to apply as PAO would no longer be the only optimal mod loadout for all armors).

For the idea of Archangel of Darkness, perhaps 3x experience is too much. Comparing to a standard game to Angel of Darkness, you get less vision, have to deal with respawns, and get 2x experience, and comparing Angel of Darkness to the suggested Archangel of Darkness, you would have a bit less vision. Triple experience is 1.5x relative to double, as opposed to double experience being 2x relative to single. Maybe if triple is too much, go with 2.5x experience? I think it could be a fun and interesting challenge, but it would definitely be very hard. Perhaps it would devolve a bit too far into needing luck to survive though.

When Archangel of Masochism and Archangel of Humanity are a thing, Archangel of Darkness certainly sounds playable in comparison. Exact amount of exp to gain is something that would have have to be playtested for sure, but I would lean with starting out at 2.5x EXP; it is an Archangel challenge after all and so you don't want to give the player too much of a bonus that would counteract the challenge.

I personally disagree with the difficulty balancing. I think in terms of quality of life, having the hard part be early on is much better so that as you said, you don't lose a couple hours of player because of difficulty scaling. It also requires the player after succeeding through Phobos to not get nervous and choke, which can indirectly make Deimos and Hell a bit harder. That said though, it depends on the direction of where DoomRL should go. Being unrelentingly difficult can be appealing, and being harder towards the end is more progressive with difficulty. If the direction of the game were to go this way, I do agree that increasing the danger value would be the way to go.

I do agree about the consideration of time investment as part of the balancing, but there could be more thrills to have if the later Deimos and Hell levels posed a greater threat, which is why I'm personally torn on the idea. This is another thing I would really like to hear the input of others on.

I disagree with the idea of alternative reloads for rapid-fire weapons to preserve ammo. They are generally very strong weapons towards the end of the game, and ammo expenditure is a good balance for that. As mentioned, many also already have alternative reloads. Overcharging Plasma Rifles can be useful for situations on Nightmare where you can farm Former Commandos and burn through a collection of Plasma Rifles for tough enemies.

I'll take your word for it, rapid fire weapons are my area of least expertise as mentioned (which is why I didn't comment on the proposed Laser Rifle nerf).


Related to rapid fire weapons, one more suggested change; when a weapon with several shots is fired and when an enemy is hit by several attacks simultaneously (such as from rapid fire weapons), can the sound not increase in volume with each fire/hit? It's part of why I don't use rapid fire builds much, an Archvile's screech after being hit with a Plasma Rifle is ear shattering.

I've got a few more suggestions to possibly add, I've added them to my main post but will point them out here separately for convenience of reviewing:

*Modify danger level to increase more sharply after Phobos?

A common criticism of DRL is that the difficulty is largely front-loaded even when you're not playing challenges that exacerbate early game difficulty, where the vast majority of runs end in Phobos, and making it to Hell can often near-guarantee victory, with only the optional Mortuary/Limbo being any threat to kill you at that point. This is primarily caused by how powerful the player becomes in the lategame, and it would take a complete rebalancing of the game to fully address it, which isn't feasible, but you could maybe help the lategame keep up with the player if the danger level was substantially higher; indeed Hell levels can feel a bit empty even on harder difficulties. Conversely, you can argue the current difficulty balance is fine, as an easier lategame is countered by the fact you have much more to lose if you die at that point and so you have to be extra careful to not make mistakes; you die in Phobos, you just lose like 15-30 minutes, maybe an hour, but you die in Hell, that could be your entire evening going down the drain. I think the later game having harder Hell levels could be interesting, but I am also fine with the current level balance, and messing with the danger level climb could be too much of a balancing change. If this were to be done, you would also probably need to keep the danger level formula used in A100/666 as is, as a more sharply rising danger level could make lategame A100/666 have absurd enemy density.

*Add an alternative reload to rapid fire weapons that give them an "ammo conservation mode", which has them ignore Triggerhappy and Firestorm mods?

Currently investing in Triggerhappy and applying Firestorm mods to your rapid fire weapons is a double-edged sword unless you're running Ammochain or made your weapon Nanomachic; they provide a nice boost to your DPS for sure, but firing those extra shots can often be overkill and will invariably lead you to burn through much more ammo. As a result, players not using Ammochain may avoid investing in Triggerhappy beyond the one level required for other rapid fire masteries (and Bullet Dance) unless they find a Nano mod, and may similarly avoid using Firestorm mods. Allowing players to avoid firing extra shots from Triggerhappy and Firestorm mods when they don't need the extra shots would make them unquestionably beneficial, though you can argue the extra ammo burning is part of their balancing and that it would indirectly nerf Ammochain (while rapid fire weapons are the weapon type I'm least familiar with as I don't much like rapid fire builds, so people more versed in them will need to discuss the merit of this idea). I'll also note the Plasma Rifle has both its altfire and altreload slots already taken up, though you could just replace Overcharge with this idea; no one overcharges their Plasma Rifle anyway. The same is also true for the Nuclear Plasma Rifle, though its altreload, Nuclear Overcharge, is not so easily replaceable; you could instead just exempt the Nuclear Plasma Rifle from having this new firing mode, under the justification that a nuclear weapon can't control the amount of shots it fires (and you don't need to be much concerned about conserving ammo with a weapon that recharges its own ammo).

*Increase the amount of rockets in Rocket Boxes from 20 to 25

Rocket Boxes carrying only 20 rockets is too low; proportionally, a 10mm Ammo Chain and Power Battery hold over twice as much ammo as their respective inventory stacks, and while a Shell Box also holds exactly twice as much as a shell stack does, shotgun shells are much more efficient relative to the amount of them you get and it's a much larger quantity. Once you get the Backpack, Rocket Boxes carry only six more rockets than an inventory stack can, making them not much practical for holding extra rockets in your inventory (and ten more rockets without a Backpack isn't much better). You could also argue to increase the amount of rockets you can hold in your inventory and the amount of rockets you get from ammo pickups, though for what is intended to be a secondary weapon, I don't think that's really needed, just make Rocket Boxes more valuable.

Nice, more suggestions to go through.

Make Berserk truly permanent when wielding Dragonslayer. It currently is "permanent" by giving 10 million actions, but it could be possible to remove the effect by using enough Run->Wait. For the most part, you would need to intentionally do this to make it happen, but if you found it early in Archangel of 666 and play defensively, I could see it being possible. My suggestion is that in the code after the Berserk effect ends, check to see if the player is wielding Dragonslayer, and if so, add another 10 million actions. Granted, this is very nitpicky.

Seems nobrainer to me.

As a suggestion for overhauling Mega Buster, perhaps have it start in Bullet mode, allow alt fire to switch modes, and you have to collect and get to keep the other modes as you kill enemies. It would resemble Mega Man a lot more and could make it useful by being multi-purpose with damage types.

Agreed, any weapon you can't control what it actually does is already an inherently flawed one, even if you buffed it immensely.

Maybe do something with Schematics? To be nitpicky, runs are not truly independent unless you have all assemblies unlocked from a previous game because otherwise, a Mod Pack may be replaced by Schematics instead. It's not at all a large deal, but does impact the spirit of run independence.

I know people have often complained about Schematics before, and missing out on a rare mod because of them is a big blow to your run. But I also understand not wanting to require people to have to look up the assemblies on outside sources to make them, and Schematics are helpful for the Technician badges, as it lets you avoid having to build some of the crappier assemblies and those requiring rare mods (though you could counterargue that you should actually have to make the assemblies for the Technician badges instead of just finding their Schematics). I think this should be another thing that is toggable, so those that want to find out the assemblies through purely ingame means are still able to (or who otherwise want to keep the Schematics so they don't need to make a VBFG9000 or Cybernano Armor for the Technician badges), while returning veterans that already know all the assemblies, and those who will just look up the wiki, will have the option to disable them spawning without having to play a bunch of runs and assembling everything to force them to go away.

The Wall/Containment Area should open up after all enemies dead to prevent softlocking if you use a Phase Device.

Seeing how I mentioned this and made my anti-softlock stance clear, I'm obviously for this.

Have a text colour change just before running mode wears off like power-up effects.

Strongly agree, I'm always unsure of when running is about to wear out, and it'll help inform decisions on if I should stop and shoot this enemy or keep booking it to gain more ground on whatever I was running from.

Creating a rankings ladder for all the various achievements. This might just be better as a community Google Sheet though and not everyone might care to be competitive in a single-player game. It would also take a lot of work to implement I would imagine. I myself am not a huge fan of it, but maybe other players would like it.

This isn't necessary and I'm ambivalent to it, but if it would get more people to play the game, then I see no problem with it as long as it's kept adequately up-to-date (and maybe do something to vet fraudulent runs to prevent another 2dev situation, though that could be a drama minefield if you don't require video evidence of Diamond and Angelic badges, which would also make it less accessible to those who lack the means or technical knowledge to record gameplay).

Colour-coded trait screen as seen here by Mader Levap:

Agreed, nothing more to say about it.

Have Technical Mod Packs increase Melee/Bullet/Shrapnel resistance when used in armor (5%? 10%?) instead of knockback.

Strongly agree with changing this, I never use Technical mods on armor unless I'm prepping it for an assembly, when I find having more knockback to be better, and otherwise decreasing knockback is largely a sidegrade at best. Since you can only apply one Technical mod though, 5% would be worthless (especially for physical attacks), and you would have to apply the energy resistances too, because only having minor physical resistances is still just clearly outclassed by adding a Power mod. Maybe make it +20% physical resistances and +10% energy resistances? At that point, it can be equivalent to or better than a Power mod against very strong hits, but worse against more common weak hits, and it shouldn't make stacking a Power + Technical mod too good (e.g. a PT Red Armor with this setup would reduce an Archvile zap down to 7 damage, which is a lot but far from damage you can keep tanking, while it is still outdone by unmodded Fireproof Red Armor that reduces it to 5 damage).

Create Archangel of Darkness which has even smaller vision, but triple experience.

Doesn't sound particularly fun, but it is a sensible extension off the current challenges for a new Archangel challenge. Triple experience sounds a bit overkill though.

Change BFG Overcharge since it's currently pretty useless and wasteful (needs discussion).

Strongly agree, it should be dealing double damage at minimum, nothing should be left alive on the screen after destroying your BFG. If there's the concern that it could be too easily abused against the Mastermind and Carmack (because losing your BFG at that point doesn't matter), you could maybe make it so that it fails if used in Dis and Hell Fortress?

Add knockback and dodge modifiers to the stats screen.

Strongly agree, the less hidden information there is the better.

Again thanks for the feedback!

While Hell's Arena does give different rewards, I do think it would be out of place if it appeared on different floors just based on the challenge. Perhaps a better alternative would just be having different rewards and different enemies based on challenge? Planning out how Dual-Angel games work would be important though.

Changing the enemy composition based on challenge is a unique idea, while aside from making it easier for challenges with especially hard early games like AoB and AoMr, you could also make it harder for challenges like AoMC and AoLT that otherwise trivialize it. I'm not sure if that would be possible, but if so, I do think that's a better idea than moving Hell Arena's spawn point around.

Regarding nuke floor counts, the number isn't really what impacts it, it's just simply the existence of the Trigun, whether the count is high or low. Nuking 15 in an Angel of 100 game could definitely be done without it, but it still definitely be easiest by waiting on finding a Trigun. However, the HP depletion would require finding many natural nukes, and then ideally spamming Angel Arm after to get the remaining count. I'm not opposed to the idea of making a medal regarding nuking a ton of floors on Angel of 100, just that the same strategy will be significantly more optimal than any other.

I see, in any case I'm not strongly for it, just an idea for A100 medals building off of existing medals.

While the Cyberdemon was the final enemy before, the Angel of Death is still stronger than he is, and the big issue is the 10 armor, which does funnel builds towards needing something that can handle high armor, which is mostly plasma damage or piercing damage. I'd say if it were to be a reasonable enemy for those game, it would need something like 95 depth, 1 weight, and 40 danger. I'm not 100% opposed to it, but it would have to be done carefully so that it doesn't become too overpowering or forcing certain playstyles.

I see the concern, but I think by lategame A100, players should always have the weapons to break through that armor regardless of build, and so the AoD wouldn't make any build unviable. Like shotgun builds will very likely have Nano-Shrapnel or some form of plasma shotgun, and in the very unlikely case they never find a Nano mod, Sniper mod, nor Plasma Shotgun, they will certainly at least have some rocket launcher on them (or if someone actually plays MAD in A100, then it's not a worry at all). Then Pistol builds will always have an Energy Pistol for Revenants and to utilize the plethora of plasma cells you'll find, or a Blaster for the same Revenant-killing ability and infinite ammo. It's also not like this isn't encouraged by other high armor enemies; the 4 armor of the Cyberdemon and Agony Elemental, as well as the 5 armor of the Lava Elemental, are hard to punch through with weak hits that aren't plasma or piercing. In the absolute worst case scenario where you somehow don't have any decent plasma or piercing weapon to use nor any other means of high damage-per-hit, you could just run away, aided by the inability for the AoD to open doors (if someone is too slow to run away from the AoD and they can't kill him, then how did they even make it that far in A100?). I also wouldn't say he is necessarily more generally threatening than a Cyberdemon, whose rockets can do way more damage per hit than any other enemy before armor aside from the Elite Former Commando (fire resistance is very easy to get but melee resistance isn't much harder), you'll likely be encountering him in much more cramped levels than Tower of Babel (so Dodgemaster can't reliably save you), he hits you just as hard in melee as the AoD does, and the fact he'll blow through walls to reach you also allows him to destroy your cover and expose you to other enemies.

I agree Juggler would lose a lot of power if it only worked with the prepared slot. I think easily allowing it to work with any weapon in your inventory would be nice for quality of life. What is your opinion on it functioning for ammo boxes?

If Juggler couldn't work with ammo boxes, it would be a senseless limitation and I would probably never invest in it if it's not a mandatory prerequisite. The only reason to not have a relevant ammo box prepared at all times is to preserve its ammo for more dangerous fights.

Regarding your suggestion for Duelist Armor with making it have lots of melee resistance and no bullet or shrapnel resistance, I don't think it would be broken in Cerberus Armor (P), but I'd strongly argue that the trade-off for more melee resistance is far more valuable than bullet and shrapnel. Bullets generally don't do a whole lot of damage, even in the end-game, and with 2 protection and possibly some points in Tough as Nails, a lot of the damage can be reduced to 1 without any resistances. Shrapnel can be dangerous up close though, but it gets heavily reduced from decent range. With the melee resistance though, you can happily camp out enemies and not worry if they get adjacent to you. Overall, I'd be for the change to Duelist Armor and hope that nothing is being overlooked. It could also be pretty insane in just Ballistic Armor for a very low cost, but it could be argued that it'd be a waste.

I do think needing a P-mod and all that investment in TaN to cover that lack of bullet and shrapnel resistances is a cost in itself (not to mention that over half the masteries block TaN). Related, maybe the bullet enemies can be made more dangerous, like Elite Former Humans can carry the suggested Magnum and maybe Elite Former Captains could use some nerfed Railgun? Or add some new bullet enemy entirely that can do more damage-per-hit. Something to help make bullet resistance more valuable and so maybe the Bullet Proof Vest could have some worthwhile niche beyond being a Green Armor alternative in the early game.

Also yeah Ballistic Armor would be wasted on this suggested Duelist Armor; it would already reduce melee hits from Barons and Mancubi down to 1 (so all common enemies can't hit you for more than 1 damage), and a Power mod would let it reduce any Nightmare Demon bite down to 1. The only practical usage would be to get you armor that reduces the AoD's damage down to 1 for non-melee builds trying to beat Unholy Cathedral, but doing that would sacrifice the armor's general usage as VMR would now destroy you in it. Actually, seeing how it reduces Baron and Mancubi down to 1 damage before even a Power Mod is added, maybe do 60% melee resistance instead.

Regarding your suggested buffs to Ballistic Armor, the main thing is it's super cheap and accessible to make, and while the fire resistance penalty is the trade-off for it, fire damage isn't as common in Phobos and even somewhat uncommon in Deimos except on the harder difficulties. I think raising all of melee, bullet, shrapnel, and fire resistances on it by 10% is too much without some other kind of cost to it.

But like I said before, currently it doesn't increase your defense against physical attacks all that meaningfully. With the current +30% resistance, a melee hit needs to do more than 8 damage for this assembly to reduce it by more than 2 damage (which a Power mod would do without making the armor worse against the most dangerous enemies), and even against Barons and Mancubi it's only reducing their melee hits by 3 damage. Then only a max damage roll from a Elite Former Human's Combat Pistol can reach 9 damage for a bullet hit, and considering shrapnel is double affected by shrapnel, it would take a Sergeant's shotgun blast doing 16 damage for the assembly to do better than a Power mod, which is very uncommon. So overall, the assembly in its current state barely helps in its primary use, while that tradeoff is very harsh. The only real reason to build it is to help with Phobos Lab on UV/N! (where it can reduce Nightmare Demons' bites by 4) and for non-melee builds with Unholy Cathedral, but sacrificing an Agility mod, Technical mod, and an armor's general usage to help with a couple special levels is a pretty heavy cost.

I do like the concepts of your suggested assembly outputs, but I'd want to avoid it becoming a slippery slope where all mod packs work on all items.

I will say I don't have much interest in doing that. You could maybe make some weapon assembly that uses an Onyx mod, or a melee weapon assembly that uses a Nano mod, but what could you do with them that both makes sense and would offer a unique gameplay role? The main idea with the suggested Sniper and Firestorm armor assemblies was to help make those mods be a waste less often and cover some gameplay roles currently offered by no other armors.

For difficulty between City of Skulls and Abyssal Plains, the big thing is that you can enter and exit City of Skulls with no worry of anything if you want to. Abyssal Plains also starts you off surrounded by strong enemies that you can't really hide from. City of Skulls is dangerous as you flip the switch, but you can often use various weapons to kill groups of Lost Souls and then chip away at whatever remains in your vision.

I see, I agree City of Skulls shouldn't be free to stair dive through. I think a simple solution here is instead of unleashing enemies with the lever, you simply have the pillars come down once you pass the hallfway point of the level (while also expanding the middle pillars so that you can't run through the top or bottom of them), much like how the Phobos Anomaly's trap works.

Regarding hunting enemies picking up items, there are a few situations that can become silly to deal with, such as Cyberdemons picking up Shielded Armor, Phaseshift Armor, and others that we're currently theorycrafting making. It could also be abused with giftdropping Necroarmor, Fireproof Armor, or Gothic Armor for the Tower of Babel fight. I'm still personally leaning on no overall, but not 100% against it.

If the player could take advantage of it to weaken the Cyber, I think that's ingenuity that should be rewarded, and it would probably be tricky to pull off, as he should still prioritize attacking you as long as you're in his massive vision radius. All that said, I'm not terribly for letting Cyberdemons and Bruisers use items, and so would be fine with them just losing the ability if hunting AI ignoring items could be fixed (while Cybers would absolutely have to if no healing cap can be programmed to medkits).

Regarding trees, the only other thing that's important to consider is they can't be randomly generated or they might block important pathways. They would have to be preset in some way.

That is certainly an important consideration I overlooked, and I imagine it would be a pain to program in a way to prevent them from blocking off stuff. You could give them the fragile flag so they're destructible by any weapon like barrels and ammo/armor crates (these decrepit-looking trees shouldn't be that sturdy anyway). Or they're just kept to specific level types where they can be easily programmed to not spawn in ways that would block off areas.

For an idea for Double Chainsaw, what if the doubling of Chainsaw's 4d6 instead of 8d6 was 4d12? This would give it a very different damage output, and a Bulk Pack to finish the assembly would give it a pretty nice boost in power with 5d12?

This would make it more unique, it still wouldn't do much for the problem of it being outclassed but any functional uniqueness is good.

I agree Lava Elemental is quite weak and increasing melee damage is a good way to counter it by avoiding the lava splashes. Perhaps just give it a higher teleportation chance? Or what if its splash radius was bumped up to 3 or even 4 instead?

I would like the higher teleportation chance, if only because sometimes it gets annoying waiting for it to teleport to me. As for the splash radius, I wouldn't mind keeping it as is nor oppose it becoming 3. Could get nasty dealing with an increased splash radius without any radsuits though, if my suggestion of removing them from The Lava Pits/Mt. Erebus on higher difficulties is done (and otherwise as long as the radsuits are kept as is, the increased splash radius won't make it that much more dangerous).

I've also got two more suggestions I added to my post, I'll point them out here for convenience to review:

*Add the "Tactical Set" - Wearing Tactical Armor with Tactical Boots completes this set, which grants the player with the effect of Dodgemaster

I think the game could use a couple more sets, with an obvious equipment set being the Tactical Armor and Tactical Boots. Aside from being thematically fitting, Tactical Armor is also an underused assembly, as the risk of running around essentially naked is too high, and the cost of two Agility Mods is a bit high for players, especially when they've likely already spent two Agility Mods on Tactical Boots. The Tactical Armor probably still wouldn't be used much, but having this set could get some players to assemble it in more scenarios, such as an out to the Cyberdemon for low-DPS builds with no Dodgemaster. There's also already precedent of equipment granting players the abilities from traits, with the Butcher's Cleaver having inherent Blademaster.

*Change the Gothic Set from giving +4 protection to +50% resistances against everything

There are two glaring problems with the Gothic Set; one, +4 protection on an armor with no energy resistances is not enough of a tradeoff for becoming completely immobilized, and two, the Angelic Set exists, which also grants +4 protection but without any sacrifices to mobility. So not only is the Gothic Set incredibly niche in practicality, it's also completely outclassed by another set that does the same thing without any drawbacks. This change could make it become actually viable in situations where out-DPSing a bunch of baddies is imperative; currently the Archvile does 10 damage to you in the Gothic Set, 8 if the Gothic Armor was P-modded, and high damage rolls from Mancubi and Revenants could do even more, while plasma enemies are of course hardly fazed. With you still taking decent damage, the Gothic Set is just making you a sitting duck that would get promptly slaughtered. With this change, the aforementioned Archvile zap now does only 4 damage, 2 if P-modded, and you'll be often be reducing hits from common plasma enemies down to 1, while Hell Knights and Cacodemons do no more than 3 or 2 (whereas before their max damage rolls would do 7 or 6). There's farther synergy with the Gothic Cerberus Armor, where this set would give you 95% resistance against everything, and so reduce practically any hit down to 1 damage; this might sound too strong, but given you're completely immobile for the Gothic Set (while rapid-fire enemies can still rack up damage quickly in big hordes), and that the Gothic Boots themselves aren't much useful (so carrying them around is often a waste of inventory space), I think this is still reasonably balanced.

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