Chaosforge Forum

General => Play-By-Forum => Topic started by: Malek Deneith on January 30, 2014, 07:54

Title: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on January 30, 2014, 07:54
No one remembers how it started. Even the oldest known scriptures describe the world around you as torn by a struggle between good and evil, light and dark. At times the forces of light prevail and the world enters a period of peace and prosperity, like in the times of an ancient unnamed empire described in crumbling texts studied by scholars, when two races united and brought civilization to lands around them. But the forces of darkness are never far away; always searching for a way to reestablish their dominance. Even the empire of old was unable to last on, eventually splitting into two separate ones - Arkhosia an Bael Turath, which then warred until one of the races got nearly wiped out and both lost their claim to glory, perhaps forevermore.

This cycle of civilization building up and getting torn down repeated many times, with last great empire, Nerath, coming from efforts of humans and ending with great war against marauding gnoll hordes. It has been over a century and a half since that time, and yet again honest folk are covering in their houses and barricading their towns to stave off monsters and brigands. To their rescue come Adventurers: great heroes born randomly - and worryingly rarely - with ability to tap into powers beyond mortal ken. Able to achieve feats unreachable for normal people, survive wounds that'd fell lesser men and sometimes even cheat death they face off against threats to civilization. And among these Adventurers... are you.


Elemental Damage Weapons
- Lightning Kopesh (Gosok) - Active
- Frost Dagger (Isirius) - Disabled
- Flaming Flail (Quill) - Active

Experience
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Stats Average For Campaign
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Killing Blows
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Map Legend
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15336046/4e PBF/map_legend.jpg)

Status Icons
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15336046/4e PBF/status_icons.jpg)
- "Hearts Icon" will be used as indication for regeneration
- Bloodied isn't present on the above list - it's a icon similar to "Heart's Icon" but with blood drops instead of hearts. You'll learn to recognize it soon enough anyway

Die Roller
http://orokos.com/roll/

Character Creation Guidelines and Houserules
- Character Level 4
- Magic Items of level 5, 4 and 3 (one each) as well as 680 gp to spend on any further magic items (for new people - it is reccomended you prioritize getting a weapon, some sort of armor and possibly a neck item)
- You get to pick a Theme but NOT a Background (to clear up potential confusion from new people Background in this context means one of the ones that provide a minor mechanical bonus not backstory written by you ;P)
- No evil alignment
- Available classes:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
- Available races:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
- Available themes:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
- Free +1/+2/+3 to attacks and non-AC defenses at levels 1/11/21. And an Epic <Defense> feat equivalent at level 21 (hahahaha, yeah right as if we'll last *that* long)
- All expertise feats, feat Robust Defenses and similar, as well as Great Fortitude/Lightning Reflexes/Iron Will feats (and their superior counterparts) are not available
- Racial encounter powers are usable twice per encounter but only once per round
- At milestone you regain use of one daily power (not couning magic item powers) chosen by you in addition to getting an action point


Spoiler: "Original Post" (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on January 30, 2014, 09:23
This is the one with the controller and whachamacallit stuff, right?

I'm in.  Might need to dust up some 4e references though... I can't remember where I have placed them.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on January 30, 2014, 09:31
/me drops from his chair

Ow... What? thelaptop actually *in* for a game instead of just watching from the sidelines? I am shaken (but not stirred) :P

Worry not 'bout references. If this take off I'll fill you in as needed ;)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Thiebs on January 30, 2014, 09:35
I'd love to get into one of these from the start. Only I have no idea how one would play D&D over a forum, what with it's intensive use of dice. So... WHATSGOINGONHERE?!?!?

...If you don't mind. ;)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on January 30, 2014, 09:43
Dice are the least problem, trust us we've done this before ;) Just for the record, you've got yourself D&D 4e books and such or will you need references also?

Hmmm, so thelaptop makes one, Thiebs makes two... SKRen is pretty much a given barring random circumstances so let's count three... if I can twist Xander's arm enough and convince Lucky Dee (...where did I put that meat cleaver...) we'd have required minimum even if nobody else expresses interest.

Is my luck turning?..

/me gets hit by a random meteorite
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Thiebs on January 30, 2014, 09:50
Don't have D&D 4e stuff, stopped playing at 3.5. Mostly because of problems with dice, actually. So the method would be important to me, though barring something very obtuse, I'd probably be willing to suck it up. If you guys can help with the rules stuff, that'd be great, though I'm pretty sure I could find a rulebook if I needed to.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on January 30, 2014, 09:59
You have my kobold.

Well, you don't yet, because I haven't sent you the CB file, but damnit, the line doesn't work otherwise...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on January 30, 2014, 10:02
@Thiebs
Right-o.
Regarding dice - we used online dice rollers, mostly http://invisiblecastle.com/ . You register there, log in, click roll dice. Put character name in appropiate place to allow for searching of your rolls, put the dice in dice box using syntax like - for example - 1d20+5, ideally put a description below and press roll the dice. You get your result and a neat pre-made BBCode to put into your post like this:
This is a test (1d20+5=10) (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4385151/)
...and repeat as many times needed for the actions you do. Simple stuff mostly.

As for 4e materials - I'll help you with that when the time comes, worry not. 4e is quite a bit different from 3.5e in some ways, but at the same time the rules are also much simpler to get in... and I'll be there to point out if you run into any trap options or fail to notice some stuff people take for granted. Hell, after some players in my first 4e PBF I am well used to this ;P
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Thiebs on January 30, 2014, 10:15
Alright, I'm iffy about the dice, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Can't be too bad. I'm in. Lemme know what you need from me for character stuffs.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on January 30, 2014, 10:46
Pick me! Pick me!

Also, Nightfalcon may be interested too, I can try and find out for you...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on January 30, 2014, 11:57
Well that's neat, assuming my predictions come true and The Sleeper does indeed apply once he wakes up it'd mean we have full set.

That being said feel free to ask your friend LuckyDee, having spare players just in case is never bad, and if it comes to that I could always bump the enemy encounters up to scale to six players... should be easy enough.

I still need to parse and decide a few things (heh heh heh) before I can lay down character creation guidelines and some background info, and help the rule-less to get their rules on, but I'll do my best to make that happen by sunday. Hell if I'm lucky and my bonus day of work this week doesn't wear me down too much maybe it'll happen sooner.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on January 30, 2014, 11:59
Right, now that I'm in a position to read what was actually posted here:

1) Have no direct experience with D&D x.y, apart from Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment (which I recently laid my hands on again, yay!) and whatever Hackmaster copied from it. Not going to be bothered by my ignorance either.

2) Unless Gard can be used (with or without slight modifications) for D&D as well, some pointers towards character creation would be nice.

3) I'll see your meat cleaver and raise you a foot mounted mace (http://www.unclesgames.com/images/products/837654320488_1.jpg).

That being said feel free to ask your friend LuckyDee, having spare players just in case is never bad, and if it comes to that I could always bump the enemy encounters up to scale to six players... should be easy enough.

Annnnd will do. Bit of a shame he never had the chance to come alive in the 1899 campaign. I asked him for a character concept and gave me 12. I told him which one to go with and he wrote a background long enough for gmail to decide to trim the message. And he's old, apparently.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on January 30, 2014, 12:17
Well like I said 4e is quite a bit different from older editions, but it's much easier to get into than Hackmaster. Of course guidelines and help will be provided. If anything the worst problem for character creation here might be the abundance of options, feats especially but if you find yourself overwhelmed with that I should be able to provide you with a trimmed down list of options good for your character ;)

As for Nightfalcon - hoooooookay, now I am officially scared. Both on account of the description of your interactions with him and the "he's old" note which in this hobby kind of... yeah I'm not sure how to put it well, but I'm capital "S" Scared. To be honest I expect the kind of GMing I can do might not end up what person like that would want to play - just to be safe better pass on the, um, warnings about how I suck and how I roll before the man builds up expectations I won't be able to live up to >_>

PS. Foot mounted mace, cute...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on January 30, 2014, 13:44
PS. Foot mounted mace, cute...

Yeah, you should get yourself a copy of Munchkin, if only for the great stuff it'd add to Hackmaster. Plus it's a great game.

Sent Nightfalcon an e-mail. Awaiting his response in eager anticipation, if only to see you wet yourself at some point.

Re: old: watch the D&D episode from the tv-series Community (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODgu_-rR1X8) featuring Chevy Chase as the bad guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FIiihhF5XU). Re: wetting yourself, too, but the good kind.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on January 30, 2014, 18:30
Ow... What? thelaptop actually *in* for a game instead of just watching from the sidelines? I am shaken (but not stirred) :P
Yeah, the last 4e PBF I was involved in was fun, though it terminated prematurely.  I've been following D&D on and off for a while, so it's easier to just "do" 4e instead of learning a whole new system.  =P
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: ZicherCZ on January 31, 2014, 02:09
If you could use a straightforward frontline warrior with some small and on-and-off D&D experience, then I'm in to give it a shot.
Btw. I have quite a number of D&D4e materials in PDFs. If needed, PM.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on January 31, 2014, 11:39
I'm in. Are we starting from the ground up?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on January 31, 2014, 11:43
Are we starting from the ground up?

Starting from a point higher up might be unfair to those looking to play a gnome.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I had a huge array of jokes about height lined up for Klear in HM campaign.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on January 31, 2014, 11:49
I did consider this earlier and while I don't want to start at rock-bottom (i.e. CL 1) I also if I recall my one attempt at starting @ Paragon tier players weren't entirely up to suddenly handling level 11 characters. And that was with people that had one or two games under their belt, now we're going to have some people new to the system so yeah, not the best choice. So I decided to go for something around the middle of the road between these two and after considering adventures at hand I settled for one that is designed for CL 4 - not much of a push up, but still more than bare basics to play with.

Don't run off starting on character just yet though, because there are going to be some...

houserules
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on January 31, 2014, 18:15
*triggers dramatic thunder & lightning*
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 02, 2014, 07:40
If you're reading this it means that:
a) some minimal background was posted alongside of character creation guidelines and houserules - check the first post of the thread
b) everyone will have PM send in a second containing a package to get newbies started (and non-newbies can at very least use the Character Builder custom campaign file)
c) this thread is now repurposed as a OOC (Out-of-character) thread for the game

As stated in the PM if any questions arrise - ask away.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 02, 2014, 12:01
I hope it is not too late to show interest in taking part in this game.

As far as my experience goes, I have played a few very short DnD 3.5 games a long time ago. I'm not sure how well I can roleplay, but I'd like to try.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 02, 2014, 12:13
Sure, there is still time to apply. Sent you a copy of 4e newbie packet via PM
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on February 02, 2014, 14:08
Are you limiting us to common/Uncommon magic item freebies or can we pick up some rare stuff too?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 02, 2014, 21:07
Oh duh, completely forgot that is a thing. Only common/uncommon ones.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Nightfalcon on February 02, 2014, 23:06
Greetings.

Nightfalcon here.  If there still a spot at the table I'd be interested in taking an open seat.

Malek, no need to Scared, I'm old but not that old.  I haven't gone old school on any GM this entire year (it's been slow).

Seriously, I don't know what LuckyDee has been saying about me.  It might be true that I remember them inventing dirt but sand was already there and yes I have played games that predated polyhedrol dice but heck all the continents were in place by then. 

As for your GM'ing.  Been there, done that, on both sides of the table.  I know how hard it is to GM and how things don't always go as planned.  While I've run some campaigns that I thought went really well, I've had some that died.

Also I know you ran Hackmaster so if that is your style of game, I can roll (role) with that.  Mostly I want a chance to give 4E a try.  I went from 3.5 to Pathfinder  and while very happy with those decisions, I never gave 4E a fair shake.  It's like green eggs and ham, I might like it Sam-I-am.

I'll start rereading the rules and coming up with character concepts. 

In the mean do we know what others are playing so we're not duplicating roles in the group?

Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 02, 2014, 23:25
How do themes work? I have not found that option in the utility you PMed and I have not found any specific information about themes online. Where should I look?

Quote from: Nightfalcon
In the mean do we know what others are playing so we're not duplicating roles in the group?

I'm creating a Psion. Also, I chose the ritual "Comrade's Succor" (allows for the redistribution of healing surges among characters), so there is probably no need for others to take it.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on February 03, 2014, 05:51
I'm making a Mul Runepriest. Also slave, be sure to buy reagents for your ritual. I've forgotten it myself quite a few times.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 03, 2014, 05:55
I'm having slight trouble getting the update to work -- I'll try again and do a feedback.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: ZicherCZ on February 03, 2014, 05:59
Speaking of equipment - any advice what a Dragonborn Fighter might need (aside from obvious items, like weapons and armor)?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 03, 2014, 07:42
Greetings.

Nightfalcon here.  If there still a spot at the table I'd be interested in taking an open seat.

Malek, no need to Scared, I'm old but not that old.  I haven't gone old school on any GM this entire year (it's been slow).

Seriously, I don't know what LuckyDee has been saying about me.  It might be true that I remember them inventing dirt but sand was already there and yes I have played games that predated polyhedrol dice but heck all the continents were in place by then. 

As for your GM'ing.  Been there, done that, on both sides of the table.  I know how hard it is to GM and how things don't always go as planned.  While I've run some campaigns that I thought went really well, I've had some that died.

Also I know you ran Hackmaster so if that is your style of game, I can roll (role) with that.  Mostly I want a chance to give 4E a try.  I went from 3.5 to Pathfinder  and while very happy with those decisions, I never gave 4E a fair shake.  It's like green eggs and ham, I might like it Sam-I-am.

I'll start rereading the rules and coming up with character concepts. 

In the mean do we know what others are playing so we're not duplicating roles in the group?
Okay, fair enough. Question - do you want a PM with a link to offline Character Builder with newest stuff or do you prefer to do it tradtional style, i.e. by hand.

Also a fair warning - at this point we have seven people applying (Thiebs decided to bow out) not counting one "spare" that contacted me via PM, so as a result one or two people will end up on reserve list (like I said aiming for five, maybe six person group). Who it'll be I'll decide after seeing the characters via mixture of personal bias and random choice ;)

As for roles I believe Xander is going for Kobold Fighter, or at least that's what he was talking about when I originally asked him)

Edit: As for items for DB fighter - I'd look for things that either add some more damage, or ones that give better mobility. So arms or feet slots I guess?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Nightfalcon on February 03, 2014, 07:45
I think I'll go with a rogue.  While have the player's hand book, I don't have any of the subsequent books.  Unfortuantely my current economic situation is such that this probably won't change in the near future.  I also haven't been able to to find a SRD that covers things not in those books.  Themes/backgrounds/a number of the classes/races.  If anyone can direct me to a good online source, that would be great.

Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 03, 2014, 07:48
Nightfalcon, check your PM
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 03, 2014, 08:45
I'll have a look at char creation tonight. If anybody has any suggestions as to what I should play, feel free to enlighten me. Otherwise I'll work something out myself.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on February 03, 2014, 10:51
My Kobold fighter is ready. Many kneecaps shall be broken.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 03, 2014, 13:15
Kalashtar Hexblade it is.

(I'm just going with whatever feels right)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 05, 2014, 12:43
GAH. Fix to a typo in houserules - racial encounter powers can be used twice per encounter but only once per ROUND (not day as I written before for some reason)

Edit: ZicherCZ, you still with us man? It seemed you had your character mostly done, then you fell silent.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: ZicherCZ on February 05, 2014, 17:53
Edit: ZicherCZ, you still with us man? It seemed you had your character mostly done, then you fell silent.
Sorry, Malek, still in - but RL, my job and accompanied travelling got the better of me at this time. I'll finish the equipment part of my char tomorrow. I'm sorry if I'm the one waited for.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 05, 2014, 18:35
Sorry, Malek, still in - but RL, my job and accompanied travelling got the better of me at this time. I'll finish the equipment part of my char tomorrow. I'm sorry if I'm the one waited for.
There's still me.  I have to roll up my character.

And since you rolled up the Dragonborn Fighter, I need to think of something else to play.

Edit: Deva Cleric.

I've no idea what I'm doing.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 06, 2014, 07:35
Yeah, it's not just you - LuckyDee is still finishing up his character, and I don't believe I heard anything from Nightfalcon since his last post in the thread. You just stood out a bit more due to how fast you mentioned having character ~mostly~ done ;)

On unrelated note, after thinking about it some I am nixing the escalation houserule, at least at this point. Looking at the numbers people have been producing so far with their characters, giving out attack buffs doesn't seem as necessary as I thought it might be at first.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on February 06, 2014, 09:39
One encounter and half PK later, you'll change your tune...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 06, 2014, 09:44
Hey, they can't be quite as bad about teamwork as the team at KotS game was, right... right?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 06, 2014, 12:05
Hey, they can't be quite as bad about teamwork as the team at KotS game was, right... right?

You will undoubtedly be able to... motivate us.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 07, 2014, 06:26
Hahahahaha... newbie Cleric incoming.

I think we're screwed.  =P
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 07, 2014, 08:49
Fret not, we have pr0 runepriest to do the heavy lifting in leadering so you'll have room to newbie around :P
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 08, 2014, 06:04
Been going through the rules you listed as 'must read', and it's all a lot more straightforward than I expected. It's also a lot more elaborate than I expected, but I more or less knew what I got myself into, so I'll try not to complain too much (:

With DnD being the rules-heavy game it is, and you as a player more or less being encouraged to use them to the full extent (as opposed to doing something stupid like create a character that has actual psychological/emotional depth whoops) I do believe I've found a pretty big flaw in the combat rules. It's not something that can be exploited in any give situation, but still... Here's what:

DnD expects you to work out combat situations on a tile grid, and by the time you get to the rules about line of sight, line of effect, cover and concealment, it becomes apparent why. Now take the rules on Targeting What You Can't See (p.281). Let's say my character has been blinded while using some kind of ranged attack at one or more enemies which he was perfectly able to hit on his previous turn. The TWYCS rules proceed to explain how my character can glean information on his enemies positions and instruct me to then pick a square and "...only the DM knows whether you guessed the wrong square or your attack just missed.".
Well, I'm actually part of a 5 player group, and since all the other players can see just fine, the grid with all the little buggers drawn/placed on it remains on the table. "Hmmmmmm.... I'm blind, failed every check concerned with tracking my enemies... I'm gonna go out on a limb and fire my arrow on that square containing the model/drawing of the Orc Warlord. It's a long shot, but I'm feeling Lucky."

Sure, there's ways to tackle this, but you'd expect a game that constructed such an intricate web of rules to found itself on would be a bit more sensible about this. And of course I still have about 350+ pages of rulebook left unread, so the answer might well be found there.

So someone please set me straight: how does the rulebook tackle this, and if not, how will this be tackled on the PBF?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 08, 2014, 07:26
I'll admit that never came up with my games thus far, mostly on account of never having a game with stealthed/invisible monsters. That being said in a PBF it's easy to handle. There are two situations here:
- If nobody in the party sees the monster than the resolution is simple, I don't show the token for the monster on map
- If only some party members don't see the monster then I can hide the token, take a image snapshot of the map for posting to "General public", unhide it then make another snapshot and PM it to the ones with line of sight to hidden monster

That being said targetting unseen monsters is a -5 to hit even if you pick the square correctly - which makes a *huge* difference - and disallows combat advantage on top of that (and potentially cuts off some powers if they explicitly mention you need to see the target) meaning we could as well keep the tokens on board for sake of ease of use and it'd still provide notable effect on the outcome of battle.

Edit: Lokee what I found (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2739081). It looks like, according to minds of CharOp forums which usually know their stuff, "not knowing where someone is" is *rarely* a thing, silly as it might sound.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 09, 2014, 01:05
- If nobody in the party sees the monster than the resolution is simple, I don't show the token for the monster on map
- If only some party members don't see the monster then I can hide the token, take a image snapshot of the map for posting to "General public", unhide it then

That oughta do the trick, yeah.

Edit: Lokee what I found (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2739081).

And that only serves to fuck everything up again. This guy must be Dutch, because this is just what our government does when it finds a hole in its rules and regulations: slap enough rules on it to not fix anything, but to at least make it completely incomprehensible. I vote we take your personal alternative and ignore the "Hidden Club".

Two more questions:

####1...
###Y2...
##X34...


In the above example, character X can Bull Rush character Y to squares 2 and 4. Not to 1 (character Y can't walk directly to it, so can't be pushed there) and not to 3 (the distance between X and Y wouldn't be increased). 2 makes total sense, 4 doesn't but just looking at the rules both are valid target squares. Correct?

########
####Y###
.X.Z....
########


In the above example, X and Z are allies. Provided that X has enough speed to cross the 3 squares to the position directly south of Y, moving there and attacking constitutes a valid Charge - even though the direction of the move and that of the attack run perpendicular to each other. If Z were standing further east, he could have made the Charge from Z's current position, but because Z's an ally he can move like Z isn't there as long as he doesn't end up in Z's square. Correct?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 09, 2014, 01:31
Question 1: Yes, indeed (though I'll admit the rule that disallows #1 is easily missable, I think even I forgot about the damn corners myself in past)

Question 2: Yes to part one, not sure if I get second part correctly though, but if I do - in second scenario you couldn't make the charge because the attack happens *after* you finish the move, and you can't finish in an elegible position to attack. Corners block... no, wait hold on a second... *flip* *flip* *flip* No, actually it seems you might be able to charge but only because - by my interpretation - you'd be able to draw line of effect standing in one of the corner positions next to where Z woud be standing in this scenario. You *wouldn't* be able to make the attack from Z's space since you can't stop there and the attack happens after move as mentioned.
Well frag. Thanks to SKRen mentioning something I re-read charge and we missed one important thing - each square of the charge movement needs to bring you "closer to the enemy" so part 1 of the question would have an answer of "no, because you'd need to stop in a square where Z is". Part 2 would be possible because with Z moving a spot to the east you could stop in the spot where he stood in part 1.

***

On unrelated note I'm going to use this opportinity to point out two things that are easy to confuse. Pay attenton people, this will be on the test... (...of you combat prowess):

1) Difference between Burst and Blast (X marks the character):

This is a Close Blast 3:
.....
.***.
.***.
.***.
..X..


This is a Close Burst 1:
.....
.***.
.*X*.
.***.
.....


Learn the difference, it just might save your life

2) Attack and damage rolls for powers that hit more than one target:
- Melee and Ranged powers that do that roll Attack AND Damage rolls FOR EACH TARGET
- Close and Area powers roll Attack FOR EACH TARGET and Damage ONCE
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 10, 2014, 13:47
Well, for what it's worth I got five characters now. With that I am announcing end of recruitment phase, with team consisting of:

Quill the Female Kobold Fighter (Martial Defender) [Xander Morhaime]
Isirius Thray the Male Kalashtar Gloom Pact Hexblade (Arcane Striker) [LuckyDee]
Gosok Skyborn the Male Mul Runepriest (Divine Leader) [S.K. Ren]
Marek the Male Deva Cleric (Divine Leader) [thelaptop]
Berak the Shardmind Shaper Psion (Psionic Controller) [slave]

Sorry ZicherCZ and Nightfalcon - you're still welcome to drop in characters for the reserve player list (should anyone drop out for some reason), but considering it's been a week and I've seen nothing of either of your characters while others pushed through the barrage of my nitpicks and suggestions I figured they deserve the priority on getting the spots. That and I'd like to get this show on the road lest we get bored and wander off.

The initial IC post will be made tommorow, probably after I get back from work so within ~18 hours? thelaptop I'm still going to need some sort of pic for a token for you lest you want me to go with whatever default cleric portrait I get my grubby paws on.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 10, 2014, 15:01
Ah, go ahead with grubby cleric picture -- it's alright by me.

Work caught up and made it annoying to source for a nice picture on my end.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on February 10, 2014, 15:08
For reference. Mul's don't have hair, but mine does due to Theme shenanigans. So feel free to call me out on it. I'm sure it will be hilarious.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 10, 2014, 22:51
For reference. Mul's don't have hair, but mine does due to Theme shenanigans. So feel free to call me out on it. I'm sure it will be hilarious.

A mullet?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 11, 2014, 06:42
For theme reasons my character was rescued from a dungeon by somebody.

- If our group has already been together for a while, I can just say that the rest of you rescued me.

- If the group is just now getting assembled, I will need a volunteer for the position of the person who rescued me and along whom I have travelled after that.

So depending on how the story begins, I might need a volunteer.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 11, 2014, 06:45
Unless you are an apparent total pain in the ass, this sounds like something Isirius would do. He’s been travelling a lot, so chances of him running into a situation like this are pretty good too.\

At Malek’s discretion, I’m your man.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 11, 2014, 08:52
For reference. Mul's don't have hair, but mine does due to Theme shenanigans. So feel free to call me out on it. I'm sure it will be hilarious.

I'm not sure how "posessed by an air spirit" translates to "grew some hair" but whatever, if you want me to make fun of you I am not going to complain :P

@up - my discretion is that if you're fine with it then I'm fine with it.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 11, 2014, 08:59
"Posessed by a hair spirit?"

@up - my discretion is that if you're fine with it then I'm fine with it.

And thanks.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 11, 2014, 09:06
@slave: given the first IC post, how do you see this - we arrived at Fallcrest together some two weeks ago?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 11, 2014, 09:11
Yeah, that sounds good.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 11, 2014, 09:19
Also, I note that my character (Berak) does not have a gender. Since calling Berak 'it' seems a bit awkward, I think I'll refer to Berak as 'he'.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 11, 2014, 10:01
Since I've been asked some question about intimidate I'd like to state that it'd be really, really nice if the three people who trained the skill didn't take having it as an excuse to try using the "make the enemy surrender" option every time one gets bloodied. Just... keep it down to situations where it seems apropiate rather than spam it, m'kay?

/me goes back to replying to the PM
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 11, 2014, 10:31
We have options?

Seriously though, I picked stuff because it felt 'in-character', not because of rules. Until you got involved, at least (:
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 11, 2014, 10:36
Well excuuuuuuuse me for trying to help you avoid potential mechanical pitfalls >_>
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on February 11, 2014, 11:40
I'm not sure how "posessed by an air spirit" translates to "grew some hair" but whatever, if you want me to make fun of you I am not going to complain :P

@up - my discretion is that if you're fine with it then I'm fine with it.

It's magical hair. The Djinn was very proud of his beard.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 11, 2014, 17:29
Ah, my first post IC will be coming up after work.  Gotta keep coding for now...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 12, 2014, 02:35
@slave, Re: your rescue: If you're going to put up your background IC, go ahead and incorporate how you were captured and rescued, I'll leave this to your imagination.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 12, 2014, 09:55
Quote
I'll admit to having 16 Cha, 10 in diplomacy and 13 in insight.  Can I use that to sense the intention of the guards and react accordingly?

Side point, should I keep OOC comments in here via quoting to keep the flow or should I just use the OOC channel for that?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 12, 2014, 10:03
For sensing intention of the guards you'd roll insight - d20+skill modifier (not passive insight mind you). and keep OOC in OOC

Edit: Keep OOC in OOC but rolls relating to IC actions go into quotes in IC posts.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 12, 2014, 10:10
Could I also use Insight to sense motive, even though I'm not the one directly interacting with the NPCs?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 12, 2014, 10:13
Sure, nothing prevents you from eyeballing them from back row and trying to figure them out.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 12, 2014, 10:33
BTW, Isirius has CHA 19. He may well be best suited to deal with NPCs socially, but unless approached personally, he'll only speak for the group if either the group or a leader acknowledges his interference is called for.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 12, 2014, 12:00
BTW, Isirius has CHA 19. He may well be best suited to deal with NPCs socially, but unless approached personally, he'll only speak for the group if either the group or a leader acknowledges his interference is called for.

Hmmmmmmm this isn't so much about raw CHA as it is about the skill, is it?

Anywho: since I'm new to the D&D system and feel, and since we as a group have spent some IC time together previously, I'd like to have an idea of our group dynamics. I'd appreciate it if everyone would just describe in a couple of sentences how he thinks he/she'd fit into the group, and how they feel about playing this part (in this group). Also, please state who you think would be acting as the group's leader. Don't overthink anything, just go with your gut feeling.

To kick off: Isirius is excited to be travelling in a group again for the time being - most of his quest time he spent on his own. Barring anyone displaying streaks of malginity or brashness, he'll get along with the others just fine, being interested in who they are, what they do and what makes them tick, almost like a combined psychologist and keeper (as in zookeeper). Any task he feels he has to perform, he does so to the best of his abilities. He will not be the one to start a fight, but if hell breaks loose, he is relentless and unnervingly effective.

Based on what I've read so far, both IC and OOC, I'd say Gosok would be the pack leader. I'd wager this will have been some unspoken thing, something that just naturally grew to be so, and very swiftly too.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on February 12, 2014, 14:00
Quill, being a kobold, is naturally averse to working alone. She gravitates towards generally like-minded groups and offers her not-insubstantial combat skills in return for travelling company and a share of any spoils. She tends to be rather protective of her group, but might not have any loyalty to any one group, exactly.

Generally, she'll guard you with her life, until something better comes along.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 12, 2014, 17:59
Marek shoots lasers and tries to buff people in the battlefield, but is otherwise quite quiet and plays a mostly observational role because Deva and the whole I-have-too-many-lives-to-care-too-much-about-details type of attitude.

So I'm likely to roll for insights as well.  Just need to do this when I get home from work... and after you guys do like 1432562198456 interactions already.  =.=
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on February 12, 2014, 19:19
Haha, thats why you keep the thread open at work. Problem solved. Gosok is does the same thing, except I stand next to the defender [WhyCantIHoldAllTheseBuffs.jpg]
Attitude wise Gosok is for most purposes mute. When he does speak.... just don't give him a reason. He is straightforward and doesn't like to scheme, but that's not to say he doesn't prefer to plan ahead.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 12, 2014, 19:59
Thing is that I don't have my character sheet available at work, making it hard to remember what I can and cannot do.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 12, 2014, 21:11
thelaptop  -> install CutePDF -> start CB -> load Marek -> Character Sheet button -> print to pdf -> upload the pdf to scribd or googledocs :P
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 12, 2014, 22:37
Okay that's an idea.  I'll do it when I get home.  Hopefully this will help me play "during office hours".
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 13, 2014, 03:00
How do I read the skill table on my sheet? I just sum up all four columns to determine the total modifier to any given test?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 13, 2014, 03:22
How do I read the skill table on my sheet? I just sum up all four columns to determine the total modifier to any given test?

The column labeled 'Score' in CB and 'Bonus' on the character sheet pdf already contains the sum of the other columns (which you should add to your d20 roll).
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 13, 2014, 03:58
The column labeled 'Score' in CB and 'Bonus' on the character sheet pdf already contains the sum of the other columns (which you should add to your d20 roll).

D'oh. Thanks.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 13, 2014, 08:30
Anywho: since I'm new to the D&D system and feel, and since we as a group have spent some IC time together previously, I'd like to have an idea of our group dynamics. I'd appreciate it if everyone would just describe in a couple of sentences how he thinks he/she'd fit into the group, and how they feel about playing this part (in this group). Also, please state who you think would be acting as the group's leader. Don't overthink anything, just go with your gut feeling.
Gosok does seem to be the leader.

Berak (my character) is quiet and mostly just observes what goes on. In part it is because he does not find casual conversation useful. That's not to say that he doesn't want to listen to others conversing (he can learn more about other creatures by doing so). Mostly he doesn't interfere with the actions of others unless he judges them significantly detrimental to the party. He acts/communicates when he sees a need to do so. For example when he wants to acquire more information about something.

If others address him, he will usually communicate vocally. If he addresses someone and does not have much to say, he well often communicate telepathically. The others in the party are hopefully used to it.

Question to the DM: How would strangers react if I initiated telepathic communication with them? Would they be startled? Find it rude?

Question 2 to the DM: I'm guessing that other creatures within telepathy range can not initiate telepathic communication with Berek? (Except for creatures like Isirius, who themselves have telepathy).

Question 3 to the DM: Is it possible to communicate telepathically with several creatures at once? (For example, say to the entire group "This guy is lying")

In combat Berak has some debuff powers and some powers that involve moving enemies around.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 13, 2014, 08:49
Question to the DM: How would strangers react if I initiated telepathic communication with them. Would they be startled? Find it rude?

Question 2 to the DM: I'm guessing that other creatures within telepathy range can not initiate telepathic communication with Berek? (Except for creatures like Isirius, who themselves have telepathy).

Question 3 to the DM: Is it possible to communicate telepathically with several creatures at once? (For example, say to the entire group "This guy is lying")

Seems you and I have some telepathy going already. I was just PMing Malek about the same thing (:

Please oh wise DM, spill your guts in the OOC thread instead.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 13, 2014, 08:56
#1 - if someone doesn't know you're telepathic yeah, there is going to be a freak-out. Might be considered rude too, depending on situation
#2 - that is correct
#3 - only one-on-one communications, unless you acquire a feat or other ability that explicitly allows multi-person conferences (don't think shardminds have anything like that)

Edit: LuckyDee - as for your previous question in PM, I was responding in a bit of hurry there and misread "only my party can hear" as "only one person can hear" somehow. My bad there, one-on-one as said above.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on February 13, 2014, 10:56
I graciously accept the leader position. As your new overlord I will strive to make sure your sacrifices will at least be a 7/10 on the awesome scale. Thank you.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 13, 2014, 11:29
About the telepathy thing:

- If Gosok is indeed mute for all normal purposes, and assuming Isirius can indeed not read the runes in which Gosok does 'speak', he will have definitely reached out telepathically to establish contact previously.
- Also, I assume that since Berak and Isirius have spent some time between just the two of them and know some basic stuff about each other's races, they'll both be aware of their ability to talk without speaking.

I graciously accept the leader position. As your new overlord I will strive to make sure your sacrifices will at least be a 7/10 on the awesome scale. Thank you.

After I posted my question on this, I realized it's probably not so much either a general RPG issue or something specifically related to D&D, it's just that Isirius needs someone deeply rooted in the Material Plane's logic to look towards for examples on how to conduct himself. Quill and Berak both don't really fit the bill, maybe Marek would, but I'd have to hear more from thelaptop to be able to decided. Until then, Gosok seems the best choice.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Nightfalcon on February 13, 2014, 20:48
My apologies.

The past two weeks have been as bad as any I can remember.  I haven't had any time to look at emails or even consider participating in a game.  Unfortunately while things are beginning to look a little better, the outlook is still sucky with patches of more sucky. 

Because of this I have neither participated nor communicated and for that I owe all of you an apology.  I wish you all a great time and hope the hacking is fast and furious. 

Best gaming to all of you.

Wm 
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 13, 2014, 23:16
Too bad you missed this, hope you get to unsuck the sucky soon. Stick around though, you were put on the reserve list, and who knows what else may develop...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 14, 2014, 09:04
I'm not sure whether it is proper to make a skill check like this (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6952.msg61622.html#msg61622) out of the blue. Should I first ask the DM in the OOC thread?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 14, 2014, 09:32
I'm not the DM here, of course, but I'd say just state what you're planning to do and the DM will let you know what roll is required, if any.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 14, 2014, 09:46
Skill checks like that are fine. Nature might've been a better choice here but that's not a big issue.

I was also thinking, in order to avoid some unnecessary slowdowns, of making rolls in your stead in situations where you declare an action which requires a skill check (for example if slave declared he wanted to remember something about weather anomalies but didn't make an actual roll) or combat situations where you're faced with possibility of an out-of-turn action that is neither related a limited resource nor dangerous to you (or at least not dangerous to you within the limits of your knowledge ;P) and doesn't require any choices on your part. I'm thinking stuff like taking Opportunity Attacks here mostly. How'd you feel about that?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 14, 2014, 10:00
Seems reasonable.

Would you still post the skill check rolls? It's not necessary, but it's nice to see that the character's skills are serving a purpose.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 14, 2014, 10:06
Yep, I intend to make the skill checks on the roller if this happens and post the results.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 14, 2014, 11:26
Could a good diplomacy check possibly reduce the freak-out of being contacted telepathically?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 14, 2014, 11:28
It probably would, yeah
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on February 14, 2014, 15:46
To keep the IC thread cinematic here's what I'm indicating in my IC post: Isirius gives the Warden a friendly offer to use our presence to help appease the crowd. We then create a loud noise to break the attention of the mob where the Warden can interject. Obviously we come as adventurers investigating the cold weather.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 15, 2014, 00:20
If Gosok says go, Isirius go. Since I get the feeling that telepathy is more than just sending words across - in fact, it's communication devoid of actual words, if I understood Malek correctly - I'm going to try something here...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 15, 2014, 07:10
Re: Encounter 1:

1) I'm seeing 3 types of enemy listed and 4 different enemy icons. Both skeleton icons represent the same type of creature?

2) What are our enemies wielding, if anything - melee weapons only, or are some carrying ranged weapons too? Since we as a party have had experience in dealing with them previously (and I personally have no clue what to expect from these basic enemies), a little more basic info on them would be nice.

3) Can I count the guardsman in O22 as an ally for the purposes of charging?

Also:

Quote
Initiative
..
11 - Isirius Thray

4) Can I get rid of that luck sink with a minor action? :P
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 15, 2014, 07:27
Oh frag, forgot to put other skeletons in the init list. Fixed. As for guardsmen - both them and the civilians count as allies for all intents and purposes. Do note though that if you just want to get near an enemy you can do that safely with an move action, without charing (though I guess with Flesh Rend counting as a MBA you could as well charge using Flesh Rend to get that +1 to hit).

And you're stuck with the init I'm afraid :P

Edit: As for equipment: Flesh-crazed zombies both wield clubs. Decrepit Skeletons have both swords and bows, other skellies have just swords. Zombie shamblers don't have any visible weaponry. Your previous experiences with zombie fighting taught you that they sometimes might survive a blow that'd normally seem lethal - buggers are tough. Rest you'll have experience by fighting I'm afraid :P

Edit 2: And a small important note eddited into IC post.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 15, 2014, 07:34
Ok, and which are the Decrepit ones: the green or the white icons?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 15, 2014, 07:36
For that look to the map legend, which as was mentioned got put into first post of OOC
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 15, 2014, 18:16
I've not played Cleric much, so forgive my question.  =)

The best way to use Turn Undead is to get into the middle of a throng of them, then Close Burst 2 them with Turn Undead, then watch the DM fume at the mess that needs to be dealt with, right?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on February 15, 2014, 23:18
Sorry about my absence. Had a WH40k Apocalypse game today.

thelaptop: Yeah 3-4 is usually a reasonable number to shoot for. It's also a good minion checker. Thankfully a guard served that purpose (Decrepit skeleton dropping to a guard in 1 hit?)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 15, 2014, 23:49
It's also a good minion checker. Thankfully a guard served that purpose

Erm... could you explain that one?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 16, 2014, 00:29
thelaptop: Yeah 3-4 is usually a reasonable number to shoot for. It's also a good minion checker. Thankfully a guard served that purpose (Decrepit skeleton dropping to a guard in 1 hit?)
Hmm.  That may make my chosen free action invalid.  I thought minion status was "obvious".

Let's see what Malek has in mind.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 16, 2014, 00:42
Erm... could you explain that one?

Some monsters are minions, which means that they die very easily (I understand that they were introduced to give players the satisfaction of mowing down lots of enemies). (Disclaimer: learned it by listening to DnD podcasts (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/podcasts.aspx)).

I believe that S.K. Ren meant that since Turn Undead can hit lots of monsters at once, it can check which ones die easily, therefore checking which ones are minions.

For example, see my last attack. The two creatures that died were probably minions and the skeleton was not.

On that note, is it usually considered better to be rid of minions first before tackling the non-minions?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 16, 2014, 01:01
Hahaha, I inteded to keep minions under the lid until after the game to keep the newbies on the team guessing but seems the cat is out of the bag now.

Okay, so what are Minions? Well like slave said minions are monsters that die very, very easily. In fact they have just 1 hp. And they deal static (i.e. no roll) damage which is considerably lower than what you'd expect from a normal monster of that level. So are they just chaff to be swept? Not... exactly. You see for all their weakness minions have still have defense and to-hit numbers equal to those of non-minion monsters, and they come in number of four to five for each normal mob they replace in the encounter so they can and will swarm you if given chance. And that's why you want to have a controller in the team. As for minion status being "obvious" it's a complex thing. On one hand I am not going to come out and point "this mob is a minion" but it's a) kind of obvious when one folds like a card tree after a single hit and b) if I remember and can fit it into description I'll try to clue in that some monsters seem to be "weaker" (couldn't really fit it this time around). Well that and if something arrives in numbers of 5 and above it's a minion suspect as well.

Design-wise minions are there to do three things: a) add some bodies so the conflict feels "bigger", b) make you feel boss when you mow them down left, right and center and c) represent "stronger" monsters you've met that are now beyond your notice because you outlevel them so much (those "stronger" skeletons you fight now? In five or six levels a skeleton minion relative to your level could represent them. They're just not a threat at this point.)

Edit: Oh, managed to forget - minions also never get hurt on a missed attack, even if it otherwise would deal damage.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on February 16, 2014, 07:21
SK, would you be fine with shifting to L17 as a free action (courtesy of Shifty Maneuver) so I can get into the middle of that zombie pile and really get swinging?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on February 16, 2014, 09:53
Sure.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 16, 2014, 10:09
As a reminder the new die roller (on account of invisiblecastle being down) is located at http://orokos.com/roll/

I'll add that link to first post for easy finding in future.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 16, 2014, 11:40
Shifty Maneuver's a nice one; I expected you to delay until after Gosok, so he would do the moving instead.

Attacking L18 with Rune of Diminishment vs AC: 1d20+12 18
Rune of Mending on Isirius; Spend a Healing Surge; Protection Runestate: me and everyone within Close Burst 5 gets +1 to all Defenses until the end of my next turn.

Is it me (hint: I already know the answer to that one) or did you just perform 4 standard actions in one turn?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 16, 2014, 11:45
He performed a Standard Action and a Minor Action. Standard Action was the missed Rune of Diminishment. Minor Action was Rune of Mending that a) let Isirius spend a healing surge, b) gave out +1 defense bonus in close burst 5 and c) put him (or in this case rather didn't change) in runestate of protection.

Ain't Runepriests grand?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 16, 2014, 11:49
Ain't Runepriests grand?

I dunno, can't understand a word he says. But I'm willing to suck up to anyone who allows me to spend a healing surge as a free action (:
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 16, 2014, 12:58
Since Gosok can see Isirius through the tent, I'm assuming that Berak can also see the ship and the ship's figurehead. Can I make some knowledge checks about the ship and the figurehead out of my turn?

For example
-- Is the figurehead sentient or is it controlled remotely?
-- Is the effect divine or arcane?
-- What would happen if we removed the figurehead. Would the ship lose it's flying ability? Would the figurehead still remain animate?
-- Would I be able to take control of the ship and make it fly?
-- What do I know about flying ships?
-- What do I know about the Winter King?

About how many of those knowledge checks can I make at once and can I actually make them when it's not my turn or do I have to spend actions on my turn to make these checks?

Note: That ship is Awesome! Hopefully.

Edit: Sorry, got a bit excited there.

Edit2: On that note, is it possible to communicate with others when it's not your turn?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 16, 2014, 14:00
Knowledge skill checks are a no action but I am going to rule that you can only get one per round in combat, and only on your turn to keep things from going overboard. Talking is a free action... literally *grin* And yes you can do it off your turn so long as it is kept within reason. (i.e. you guys start having whole discussions off turn, I'll start cutting off your actions)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 16, 2014, 18:44
By "knowledge" skill checks, you mean Insight or History rolls?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on February 16, 2014, 19:10
History, Religion, Arcana, Nature, Dungeoneering and Streetwise

and sorry for the lack of clarification in my actions. Normally I'm the guy with meticulous formatting.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 16, 2014, 21:30
thelaptop, Turn Undead can also push your targets, you might want to declare where you'd want each undead pushed in the event any of those miserable rolls hit :P
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 16, 2014, 23:18
... any of those miserable rolls hit :P
Now I feel like I'm going to die before the next turn...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 17, 2014, 07:31
My bad, it was 5:30 in the morning and my half-awake eyes mistook damage rolls for hit rolls (though that first hit roll still is miserable). Oh and as a reminder close attacks are multiple attack rolls ONE damage roll (first one will be used in this situation).
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 17, 2014, 09:36
OK, at this point some advice from the more experienced players would be much appreciated. I'm supposed to be a Striker, but right I now it appears I coulnd't even strike myself a black eye :S

Having rolled a 1 on the damage roll twice in a row left me unable to dispose of my first opponent, and now I have two to deal with. Furthermore: if I could land another hit on my first victim, I'm pretty sure he'd be disposed of. If I miss, on the other hand, chances are I'm dead meat before my next turn. I have no powers or items that allow me to take on two opponents at the same time, and I hope to god I won't be reduced to running away like a sissy (which I can't do without provoking an opportunity attack, in the current set up).

I'm not expecting detailed plans of action, just general advice would be great. I'll be able to follow up in about 2 hrs from now.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 17, 2014, 09:51
First of all I'd want to point one thing out - your first target isn't bloodied yet. THAT being said another thing to point out would be that I foolishly made that second zombie charge you forgetting... something. I'm going to let you figure that one out. Another thing - remember you get to Spirit Flay twice per encounter. And then a list: Convocation of Shadows. Inevitable Strike. Frost Dagger second power (the daily one). Think about those, there is a sane battle plan in there ;P
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 17, 2014, 09:56
The cleric seems fine now so I was planning on coming to your aid on my next turn anyways. Whatever you do on your next turn, I suggest you shift one square to the right. Then, if both enemies are still standing after your turn, I can hit both of them with an area attack without hitting you.

Alternatively you could delay your turn until after mine and I could hit the stronger zombie with a debuff that gives -4 to all defences. That should give you a much better chance to hit. You could contact me telepathically and tell me to do so. (you are somewhat familiar with my powers)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 17, 2014, 10:10
First of all I'd want to point one thing out - your first target isn't bloodied yet.

Christ, you're right.

THAT being said another thing to point out would be that I foolishly made that second zombie charge you forgetting... something.

Yeah I still needed to check that, the way I read the post I was under the impression that he wasn't actually charging, just moving.

And yeah, I do need to take a moment to go through my sheet again; I was at still at work half an hour ago and had to hurry home, and now I have to hurry to dinner again. It will have some additional attention shortly.

The cleric seems fine now so I was planning on coming to your aid on my next turn anyways. Whatever you do on your next turn, I suggest you shift one square to the right. Then, if both enemies are still standing after your turn, I can hit both of them with an area attack without hitting you.

Alternatively you could delay your turn after mine and I could hit the stronger zombie with a debuff that gives -4 to all defences. That should give you a much better chance to hit. You could contact me telepathically and tell me to do so. (you are somewhat familiar with my powers)

Thanks for that, I'll go into this in a bit more detail later as well.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 17, 2014, 10:17
Quote
Yeah I still needed to check that, the way I read the post I was under the impression that he wasn't actually charging, just moving.
He moved first, then charged, and it is indeed noted in the actions section of the post ;) (Maybe I should add some color or underline to charging in future, I'll think about it)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 17, 2014, 10:44
Ice is difficult terrain, but the square Q21 is only partially covered with ice. Since players don't take up a whole square, it's perhaps possible that a character can stand on the non-slippery part, thereby not counting Q21 as difficult terrain.

I'm asking, since if Isirius does delay his turn and Q21 is not difficult terrain, I could move to Q23 and Isirius could shift to Q21 and gain flanking.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 17, 2014, 10:53
Q21 is half-covered in ice, I'm going to have to rule ti does count as difficult terrain. That's how I treated it when moving monsters anyway.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 17, 2014, 11:38
He moved first, then charged, and it is indeed noted in the actions section of the post ;) (Maybe I should add some color or underline to charging in future, I'll think about it)

Ah, I could have sworn Charge was a Move action, not a Standard action (so that making a charge attack would require 1 Move and 1 Standard action). That combined with the fact that I saw the word 'move' somewhere in there, led me to believe there was no Charging involved. Had I known this, I would have probably repositioned myself on my first turn, but hey.

In that case I'm going to interrupt the proceedings first...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 17, 2014, 13:32
The cleric seems fine now so I was planning on coming to your aid on my next turn anyways. Whatever you do on your next turn, I suggest you shift one square to the right. Then, if both enemies are still standing after your turn, I can hit both of them with an area attack without hitting you.

Alternatively you could delay your turn until after mine and I could hit the stronger zombie with a debuff that gives -4 to all defences. That should give you a much better chance to hit. You could contact me telepathically and tell me to do so. (you are somewhat familiar with my powers)

To answer this one, as I promised: let me start by pointing out that I'm very unfamiliar with the way combat is handled in D&D. It's probably very good at what it does, but the connection to the RPG element is totally lost in my experience. It becomes a game of numbers instead of a game of words.
Since I come from a word-heavy background, I'm trying to adjust to this mindset, but likewise I don't want to let go of my heritage. As such, although your ideas are really good, I have trouble accepting them for one simple reason: Isirius has no idea you're standing behind him - unless you were to warn him of this, of course. Eventually I went ahead and took your advice into account anyway, but it just feels unnatural to me.

Like I said, partly I'll have to get over this and adjust, partly I want to cling to this because I take pride in it: it's what makes the stories work. Regardless, I've learned a lot about how the system works in just three turns, and I intend to put that knowledge to good use. I'll get the hang of this game yet....
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 17, 2014, 14:53
To answer this one, as I promised: let me start by pointing out that I'm very unfamiliar with the way combat is handled in D&D. It's probably very good at what it does, but the connection to the RPG element is totally lost in my experience. It becomes a game of numbers instead of a game of words.
Since I come from a word-heavy background, I'm trying to adjust to this mindset, but likewise I don't want to let go of my heritage. As such, although your ideas are really good, I have trouble accepting them for one simple reason: Isirius has no idea you're standing behind him - unless you were to warn him of this, of course. Eventually I went ahead and took your advice into account anyway, but it just feels unnatural to me.

Like I said, partly I'll have to get over this and adjust, partly I want to cling to this because I take pride in it: it's what makes the stories work. Regardless, I've learned a lot about how the system works in just three turns, and I intend to put that knowledge to good use. I'll get the hang of this game yet....

You can play however you feel comfortable playing. I, for example, can't really put myself in the shoes of my character, I'm mostly just doing whatever I feel like doing. That is to say, I'm mostly bending the character to my will rather than bending myself to fit the character. It's probably just because I'm new to roleplaying, but I do think that it fits the arcadey spirit of DnD.

For example, what you said about Isirius not being aware of Berek being behind him. In this arcadey setting, it just makes sense that he would be aware and it could be explained by instincts or simply just looking behind. At least that is how I feel about it.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 18, 2014, 04:36
For example, what you said about Isirius not being aware of Berek being behind him. In this arcadey setting, it just makes sense that he would be aware and it could be explained by instincts or simply just looking behind. At least that is how I feel about it.

And you're probably right, too. Like I said, I still need to adjust to the spirit of D&D very much. I'm getting there, though, slowly but surely.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 18, 2014, 05:05
LuckyDee, if it helps you in anyway, I learnt most of my DnD 3e/3.5e from CRPGs in the form of Neverwinter Nights.

4e I learnt from a previous PBF that Malek was running some time back.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 18, 2014, 09:28
LuckyDee it might help a bit to stop considering situation "static" in combat. What I mean by that is that Isirius isn't just standing there waiting for his move RP-wise. Those turns last 6 to 10 (forgot which is in this edition). During that time Isirius is probably trying to attack several times (with actual rolled attacks being the ones where he actually had an opening) and more importantly keeping an eye out on surroundings ;)

As a sidenote that "no/little RP in D&D" is kind of wrong IMHO. You can RP in D&D... or in any other system. Hell, you can RP without any system at all. That's because you don't really need rules to do the Role-playing part of RPG. Playing DnD 4e just means you have more robust rule system to work with when the 'G' in RPG pops up :P

But really, a RP-heavy or at least RP-interesting games can, have been and will be made in 4e. It's just that it needs both players good and willing on that side, and more importantly a GM which is good at doing that sort of campaign. I am not one of those (and as I admitted before I do enjoy the combat aspect of the game more probably) so you get what you get ;)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 18, 2014, 09:33
LuckyDee, if it helps you in anyway, I learnt most of my DnD 3e/3.5e from CRPGs in the form of Neverwinter Nights.

Most of my D&D knowledge stems from Baldur's Gate :)

The thing about CRPGs is that... well... they're not really RPGs, in general. Take Baldur's Gate for example: there's tons of options to play an evil character, and zero reward. You'll just get less xp, pay more for your items and get attacked by puny guards a lot. So you start playing the numbers instead of the words, because playing the words will just suck ass once you stray off the beaten path.

Maybe I should attempt a more Baldurian approach here, though. With the added freedom PBF offers, I could still strike a balance between that and 'proper' RPG.

LuckyDee it might help a bit to stop considering situation "static" in combat. What I mean by that is that Isirius isn't just standing there waiting for his move RP-wise. Those turns last 6 to 10 (forgot which is in this edition). During that time Isirius is probably trying to attack several times (with actual rolled attacks being the ones where he actually had an opening) and more importantly keeping an eye out on surroundings ;)

As a sidenote that "no/little RP in D&D" is kind of wrong IMHO. You can RP in D&D... or in any other system. Hell, you can RP without any system at all. That's because you don't really need rules to do the Role-playing part of RPG. Playing DnD 4e just means you have more robust rule system to work with when the 'G' in RPG pops up :P

But really, a RP-heavy or at least RP-interesting games can, have been and will be made in 4e. It's just that it needs both players good and willing on that side, and more importantly a GM which is good at doing that sort of campaign. I am not one of those (and as I admitted before I do enjoy the combat aspect of the game more probably) so you get what you get ;)

Heh, well like I said yesterday, being new to D&D and trying to find out stuff about it, all you find is rules, rules, rules and players discussing them - to the point where you start wondering whether any of them even care about the story. I'll take your advice into account as well, thanks.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on February 18, 2014, 10:36
If there's a big demand for a more RP type of RPG, I could dust off one of my Dark Heresy campaigns...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 18, 2014, 14:42
If there's a big demand for a more RP type of RPG, I could dust off one of my Dark Heresy campaigns...

I might take you up on that at some point. I really like what I saw of Silhar's DH campaign, and I loved the character I had... Pity it never saw life again. Consider me volunteering for when this campaign ends. And I'm recommending Nightfalcon again, as well. How would you define 'big demand'?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on February 18, 2014, 17:45
How would you define 'big demand'?

3+ volunteers.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 18, 2014, 22:17
Blechh that was a terrible attack roll.  Lots of damage though... if only the attack can hit.

If there's a big demand for a more RP type of RPG, I could dust off one of my Dark Heresy campaigns...
I'm more inclined to this, but time zones and time commitments means I will be the slowest to reply.  That and an already daily drain on my creative powers make it just a dream on my part.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 19, 2014, 01:08
Some questions in regard to my last action:

1) Could I have charged to J22 from my current position? I was somehow under the impression that charge should be in a straight line, but that is in fact not what it says in the PHB.

2) The Target of Spirit Flay is defined as "One or two creatures". Do I choose this, or would have having used it in this case have meant that I had also given Marek a good wallop?

In this case it didn't matter too much, since I had enough actions and enough to choose from as well, but this may well help a lot in the future.

EDIT: and of course I should have flanked the bugger for and extra +2 on my attack rolls, which I assume are both going to miss in this situation. Blegh.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 19, 2014, 07:49
1) Could I have charged to J22 from my current position? I was somehow under the impression that charge should be in a straight line, but that is in fact not what it says in the PHB.
Well for starters your current charge isn't straight line either ;) And it probably should en... ah no, wait, you have reach, scratch that (gonna take a while for me to remember that). Anyway no you don't have to charge in straight line. The only two requirements are that you need to move at least two squares and that every square moved needs to be closer to enemy than the last. If you can satisfy those two requirements and have enough move you could even "charge" in a spiral for all the rules care.

2) The Target of Spirit Flay is defined as "One or two creatures". Do I choose this, or would have having used it in this case have meant that I had also given Marek a good wallop?
It... wait, what? *reads* Oh for... Well that makes it a bit better I guess. To answer the question - with that wording you choose how many creatures you attack.

EDIT: and of course I should have flanked the bugger for and extra +2 on my attack rolls, which I assume are both going to miss in this situation. Blegh.
Actually one of them will hit it seems. But for future record that second damage roll (i.e. the one from inevitable strike) should be 1d8 :P

Turn processing will be delayed - I am waiting for wisdom from Oracle of Tenretni on subject of casting through shaped consciousness and provoking (or not) OA. Speaking of Berak urgh, that Fortress of Iron Will. I'll admit that, since I've been rolling with real-life dice for enemies I don't remember what the roll was. I think I'm going to rule it saved you from the hit... and make a mental note to write down attack rolls against Berak for around at least >_<
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 19, 2014, 08:35
Sorry for all the trouble I'm causing :P

I think I'm going to rule it saved you from the hit.

I'll edit my post then under that assumption. That way you don't have to worry about that Shaped Consciousness question (for now).

As an alternative to writing down attack rolls against me, you could use the following (fair) solution.
Quote
Assumption 1: The enemy attack roll takes the form 1d20+A, where A is an integer.
Assumption 2: Berak's defence against that attack before using Intellect Fortress is D.
Assumption 3: The enemy attack hits.
Assumption 4: The enemy is capable of rolling D+4.

Given these assumptions we know that the enemy rolled somewhere between D and 20+A.
What we are interested in is whether the enemy rolled between D and D+3 or between D+4 and 20+A.

A fair solution to this would be to generate a random integer X between D and 20+A and checking whether X<D+4 or X>=D+4.

Or equivalently, generating a random integer Y between 0 and 20+A-D and checking whether Y<4 or Y>=4.

Could possibly be easier than writing down numbers.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 19, 2014, 08:41
No, actually I think writing down numbers is still easier >_>

And at a glance at your second question in the PM I believe you are correct (though for Area attacks larger than Area burst 1 the positioning of central square might matter)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 20, 2014, 10:41
I'd just want to point out that since this encounter will end once those two skeletons get offed I am offering a (quite probably) one-time opportunity to touch-up things as you see fit with your characters if you feel something doesn't really work well now that you had a test run.

Oh and I also have figured out a neater way to apply the free bonuses from houserules. It's not a big deal, but I recommend to update the files anyway, since it makes it so bonuses only apply to characters you *want* to have them not all of them. Procedure below:

1. Download https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15336046/4e%20PBF/Extras%20Update.7z
2. Delete "KDM Math Fix.part" from your Custom folder
3. Put the new "Math Fix.part" in Custom folder
4. Overwrite your old "Chaosforge 4e PBF.dndcamp" file
5. Run CBLoader.exe. It'll have to re-merge. Go make yourself a nice cup of tea/coffee while it does so
6. Open your character
7. Go to Management -> Campaign Settings and load "Chaosforge 4e PBF.dndcamp" again. Yes, this is *important*
8. Go to Build -> Backgrounds. Note that below your theme there should be an option to select a background now (six options actually but that's beyond the point, use the first one).
9. Click "General" on your background selection. Then click "A Houserule Math Fix". Like this:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15336046/RPG/Howto1.jpg)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15336046/RPG/Howto2.jpg)
- Final Result:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15336046/RPG/Howto3.jpg)
10. Save your character

And that should be it.

PS. slave, it seems you were correct in your assumptions you can use shaped consciousness to avoid provokin OA. Damn Psions ><
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 20, 2014, 15:14
Okay, I'll apply it later.

Next encounter, remind me to charge to the centre of where everyone is going to charge to so as to have more meat shields while I pew-pew everyone else.  Laser Cleric feels stupid moving first and then applying healing to himself most of the time while trying to tank when he can't friggin' tank.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 21, 2014, 12:54
Oh and have yourself a bunch of useless stats.

Well... this is the first time ever I've actually been embarrassed by my achievements in an RPG... Back to the drawing board for me.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 21, 2014, 12:59
Well... this is the first time ever I've actually been embarrassed by my achievements in an RPG... Back to the drawing board for me.
Look at the positive side - at least you managed to hit most of the things you tried to kill unlike certain Mul >_>
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 21, 2014, 13:05
Heh, yeah I'll live. It does sting a little, though.

But it at least served me well in terms of getting a handle on the system, so if I can do better than an average 3 on damage rolls on the next encounter, I should be good.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 22, 2014, 03:59
Does this:

This blighted winter is bad enough but now between the undead, a talking boat, an ice scepter and a Winter King; things are getting out of hand.

mean the same as this:
╬╢╣╔╣ ╡╩ ╦╢╣ ╬╜╔║╣┼└

And does Isirius stand any chance of understanding this without engaging you telepathically?

Wait, only by quoting did I spot the "Where is the Warden?" bit. That probably answers my first question...
Time to do some backtracking.

[EDIT]: Wow, now that I understand the runes I must say I really like your idea. I'm still curious as to whether I'm able to understand it...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on February 22, 2014, 08:23
I would say you guys are able to at least. Whether anyone else can is up to Malek but I would think anyone with a religion check could as well.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on February 22, 2014, 12:09
How were you even able to translate that, anyway?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 22, 2014, 12:17
You hover your mouse cursor over the text
╬╢╣╔╣ ╡╩ ╦╢╣ ╬╜╔║╣┼└
and you should get a text message if you wait for a second.

When I first figured it out, I was going to post about it in the OOC thread. Shouldn't have changed my mind about doing so apparently. :P
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 22, 2014, 15:14
What are these things actually, rules wise? What language or ability?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 22, 2014, 15:28
None. It's 100% fluff :P
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 22, 2014, 15:33
Fluff goooooooooooooood.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on February 22, 2014, 18:32
 I don't want to spoil why Gosok doesn't speak. Fluff wise its the same runes I write to use my powers. I'll try to keep the messages terse enough to be reasonable. I'm not going to lecture with the damn things.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 23, 2014, 00:21
I would say you guys are able to at least. Whether anyone else can is up to Malek but I would think anyone with a religion check could as well.

Took the liberty of changing my first IC response to you to reflect this.

I don't want to spoil why Gosok doesn't speak. Fluff wise its the same runes I write to use my powers. I'll try to keep the messages terse enough to be reasonable. I'm not going to lecture with the damn things.

Makes sense. Again, I'm impressed with what you came up with. In a pen-and-paper RPG, there'd be no place for this but for the PBF it just works perfectly.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 24, 2014, 08:39
Now that the cat is mostly out of the bag I figured I'd share something:

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15336046/RPG/fail.jpg)

The DC for the test was 14

(http://galeri3.uludagsozluk.com/138/facepalm_227785.jpg)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 24, 2014, 09:41
Booyah! Shoe's on the other foot, now :)

Which probably spells bad news for Isirius rolls on the next encounter ><
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 24, 2014, 10:07
I think I need to clarify: your quarry is already aware someone is onto him - and is starting to run for it. It's only that crowd is still slowing him down. So you might want to adjust that post of yours...

... and if you're into following him roll me an Athletics check for a start.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on February 24, 2014, 10:07
We can't go using up all our luck on non-life-threatening situation rolls, you know.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 24, 2014, 10:25
We can't go using up all our luck on non-life-threatening situation rolls, you know.

Quick thinking, Batman.

@Malek: ok, that does change things. Gimme an hour or so and I'll make some adjustments.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on February 24, 2014, 10:59
Malek, quick! Make the crowd do more offensive things. It might make Gosok angry enough to start yelling.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 24, 2014, 12:17
Would it be possible to examine the figurehead with an arcana check to find out things about its magical workings? Or would that require some ritual?

It seems that the ship would perhaps fly away if someone with the scepter were to board it. I would like to find out where it would fly.

Modifying the magical construct to obey me would probably be impossible without some complicated ritual though.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 24, 2014, 12:24
You could try an arcana check but it wouldn't really allow you to figure out where it would fly by itself. Without through examination it'd only reveal the general properties of the figurehead most of which you already know or can guess. And yes, madifying the construct would require a good, costly ritual.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on February 24, 2014, 13:46
Btw, those who witness Gosok's break down can feel free to 'Hold me back bro. Hold me back before I wreck this fool!'
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 24, 2014, 14:45
Btw, those who witness Gosok's break down can feel free to 'Hold me back bro. Hold me back before I wreck this fool!'

Er... I assume that Gosok has instructed us to do something in such a case. I'm not sure what though. I could summon some chains and tie you up with the help of others or try to calm you down with words. But it seems that Aliir would find anything of the sort insulting and murderize us.

You are suddenly very, very scary.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on February 24, 2014, 19:57
Its a joke. I'm saying you can literally hold him back and stop him from throttling the guy. But if you play it up like you're having trouble with it we could get a decent intimidate check going.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 24, 2014, 23:17
I don't want to spoil why Gosok doesn't speak.
Btw, those who witness Gosok's break down can feel free to 'Hold me back bro. Hold me back before I wreck this fool!'

Heheheh... am I suddenly very glad I picked you to provide a distraction :)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 25, 2014, 09:16
I'm kind of amused on how blase reactions from the party to Gosok's reveal are. Gosok is calling winds? Levitating? Calling himself with a different name? Meh, must be tuesday.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 25, 2014, 09:23
I'm kind of amused on how blase reactions from the party to Gosok's reveal are. Gosok is calling winds? Levitating? Calling himself with a different name? Meh, must be tuesday.

He has used similar abilities in battle before, so the part about the winds not really a surprise...

Also, it is uncertain how much our characters already knew about the Aliir thing. At least Isirius seems like he might know something.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 25, 2014, 09:59
Running, can't hear you.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 25, 2014, 10:14
Running, can't hear you.

Sorry, I took the wince to mean that it was familiar to you. Guess not then.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 25, 2014, 10:40
Hah, no :)

I asked Gosok to 'speak' to the assembly because his runes would buy me time. The wince was due to the realization that I got more than I bargained for.

As to:

Gosok is calling winds? Levitating? Calling himself with a different name? Meh, must be tuesday.

I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything, because it probably would have gone straight back into the glass. Through my nose.
From how I see the Kalashtar, this is indeed just another Tuesday. Show him a (so-called) perpetuum mobile (http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/maxxyustas/maxxyustas0708/maxxyustas070800482/1416701-perpetuum-mobile-3d.jpg), or even a jack-in-the-box and he'll be enthralled.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 25, 2014, 15:20
Eh, Marek is a deva.  These things are "normal", right?

Or I'm just a very shoddy/lousy role-player.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 26, 2014, 11:01
Pardon the slowdown but the post from me will most likely not occur until tommorow. This day was somehow more tiring than it should and I don't feel an ounce of will to write -_-. My sincere appologies.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 26, 2014, 16:37
That's fine O mighty DM.  =)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on February 26, 2014, 17:05
NP. I'll just be here, hitting the new replies button...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 27, 2014, 10:40
So for those not in the know what I did when running that chase with Isirius was play a fast-and-loose version of something that 4e calls a "Skill Challenge". What are those? Well in theory a Skill Challenge is supposed to be a kind-of non combat encounter centered about using skills. They're built around involving whole party, and to win one the party needs to make some number of successful skill checks before getting three failures.

Now this might sound fine on paper but really the concept is a mess. For one to get everyone involved you'd need some way to prevent one or two people going through their skills repeatedly - using initiative order is suggested but that kind of makes it like combat lite so urgh. Also there is an issue of transparency here - do I let players to know what skills are good for the challenge? Or do I have them figure it out from the context? Lastly there is this fact that there is little in terms of how to keep players without relevant skills involved when they can say "oh I'm going to do aid another on next player's skill check" which also draws-out the whole thing.

TL;DR - Skill Challenges kind of suck, and even most pro-4e people tend to agree on this.

With that in mind would anyone hold against me if I did my best to cut those out whenever I can do so without damaging the integrity of the adventure? To be forward about this - there is one challenge coming up which is supposed to cover your "journey" to the source of the winter "problem". If we were to go without it we'd just have a short description and cut to your arrival.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 27, 2014, 11:55
To be honest, Skill Challenges don't sound particularly interactive or enjoyable, so go ahead.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 27, 2014, 12:03
With that in mind would anyone hold against me if I did my best to cut those out whenever I can do so without damaging the integrity of the adventure?

Depends, I guess. When are Challenges called for according to THE RULES?
And in regard to your specific question regarding our journey: why a Skill Challenge at all? This potentially shortens the story by a significant amount. "Ah, three failures in three rolls. You're unable to locate your destination. Markelhay thanks you for your time and Fallcrest's population lynches you on the way out. The end."

Taking care not to start sounding repetitive: this smells just like the fear I have about D&D being too much governed by rules. So as to our journey: why not point us in the right direction, have us walk for hours/days and slap an encounter (from a randomized table for all I care) on us, see what happens? In the end we reach our destination (if we live) and the trip there will have been a natural and eventful element of the story.

Why set up complex schemes like Challenges when you can just ask for independent checks as the situation requires - which also nicely circumvents the problem with players maximizing potential by delaying/aiding/generally being cu...cumbers - and let the story evolve based on the outcome?

Alternatively you could:
) have multiple players make any given check and decided that at least N of them have to succeed
) require success by at least N points
) require failure by no more than N points
) have multiple players check and calculate the total number by which the group succeeds/fails
etc.

There's plenty of possibilities with a little creativity.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 27, 2014, 12:16
It's kind of hard to tell when they are called by THE RULES, because it's kind of a "when GM feels there should be one" kind of thing. To give practical examples one old, old adventure I run in the past had a Skill Challenge when PCs met with an undead knight that was not an evil creature but tad paranoid on account of being stuck for ages in monster infested ruins, and involved calming trying to calm him down to be able to talk to him rather than fight. So a kind of thing that could as well be done with some RP and/or a Diplomacy roll.

The skill challenge coming up in this adventure that I mentioned was supposed to represent the "trials" of the non-monster kind (bad weather mostly) faced during the journey. It also is quite badly written IMHO *and* failing rolls on most of it resulted in loss of healing surges which is flat-out dumb.

And yeah you're right those things can be handled otherwise with a bit of creativity - that's kind of the point that I want to bypass this shit wherever I can in favour of letting it resolve via plot, random encounters or straight up skill checks. I just figured that I'd be a) transparent on me deciding to go that way about it and b) kind of show off/explain before defenstrating that part of the rules, seeing as this game is a bit of a learnign experience for about half of the party.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on February 27, 2014, 12:22
And yeah you're right those things can be handled otherwise with a bit of creativity - that's kind of the point that I want to bypass this shit wherever I can in favour of letting it resolve via plot, random encounters or straight up skill checks. I just figured that I'd be a) transparent on me deciding to go that way about it and b) kind of show off/explain before defenstrating that part of the rules, seeing as this game is a bit of a learnign experience for about half of the party.

In your previous post, I interpreted "Making the journey a Skill Challenge is a dumb idea, so we'll just skip the journey", which would be a shame. It seems we are on the same level anyhow. So yeah, go for it.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 27, 2014, 13:12
For the record the Warden will follow you to meet up with Isirius so feel free to push the reunion further in absence of my posts (seeing as I'll be going to sleep soon).
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 28, 2014, 07:21
As for the ice scepter itself it is an actual usable magical item - look for it under rods section to see what it does.
By "under the rods section", do you mean this screen (https://www.dropbox.com/s/p8yc8vx5zngjvgb/CBrods.JPG)?

I can't find it there, so perhaps my CB is a bit broken (had to reinstall it to get the houserules working) or maybe you meant something else.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on February 28, 2014, 08:08
Eh, it's a PBF, so it's oodles slower than real-life interactoin for role-playing.

If skill challenges are going to turn into some kind of combat lite mode, perhaps it is fine if we do away with it.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 28, 2014, 08:27
This is the section that I meant and it looks like something's fubar'd on your side. Maybe you just ran it with wrong .exe file this particular time? (CBLoader.exe is the correct one)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on February 28, 2014, 09:08
Whoa, reinstalled it again and suddenly a lot of new stuff is available (the Ice Scepter among them). Apparently I had it set up all wrong this whole time. I don't know what I did differently that fixed it though :P.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on March 03, 2014, 05:32
Sorry for the delayed post. Been trying to wrap up end of quarter school stuff. Probably won't post again till Wednesday.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 09, 2014, 12:33
Apologies for my lack of response over the last couple of days (at least I'm generally a lot more active than this). Got a lot of stuff on my mind at the moment, some of it meh, some outright shitty. Give me another couple, a week at the most, and I should be alright again.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on March 09, 2014, 17:49
Why did Quill not take the help of Marek?  QQ
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on March 09, 2014, 18:53
Because right now Quill is a bit miffed at the powers controlling the universe and their affinity for tossing kobolds into deep snow, that's why.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 10, 2014, 07:44
(http://i58.tinypic.com/11gukg0.jpg)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 10, 2014, 11:40
..ooooooooooh the subtlety...... XD
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 11, 2014, 09:48
"Subtelty" is my third name. First and second being "Absolutely" and "No" respectively :P
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on March 11, 2014, 19:31
Ech.  I'll do stuff IC later on -- work is annoying at the moment.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 13, 2014, 21:50
I'd just want to point out that if you want anything to happen someone should decide on some sort of action and then perform it

/me goes back to twiddling his thumbs
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 16, 2014, 00:51
Saw Malek's IC post late last night. That was rather unexpected, even though I saw it coming :S
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on March 16, 2014, 01:09
Sorry LockyDee, the barbarian is no longer adjacent to you, I kind of moved him to A13, so your attack only hits the wolf. Sorry. Perhaps this causes you to rethink your action? Or if the DM allows, my turn could be counted as having been taken after yours (allows me to edit my post so that I delay my action until after yours).
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 16, 2014, 01:13
Say what?

Here's what I read:

Minor: Living missile attack:
   Attack: 1d20+8=9
   Damage: 2d6+4=11
   Slide the barbarian to A13
   Secondary target: the wolf next to Marek
   Miss: Primary target falls prone, secondary target takes half damage

You attack to cause damage and slide to A13, but miss. Hence the target only falls prone. If this is indeed not the case, then, yeah, I'd like to re-do my turn.
Making attack rolls this good could only have been too good to be true ;(

Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on March 16, 2014, 01:19
The slide happens regardless of whether I hit or miss. Sorry for being unclear. I should have put the slide effect before the attack roll, like it is written in the power's description. I'll fix it.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 16, 2014, 01:30
slave is correct, the slide is an effect and those happen regardless of hit or miss. Feel free to retake the turn if you want Dee, but yes you will have to roll again if you do I'm afraid ;)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on March 16, 2014, 01:47
Mildly malevolent mechanics master.  m3h.

=P
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 16, 2014, 02:16
Screw it, I'm delaying until after Gosok. Maybe I can come up with something decent by then.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on March 16, 2014, 02:20
I think you could use your Amulet of Life with that heal that Marek gave you.

EDIT: Or can he? When I considered that item, I thought you could. But perhaps I was wrong and you can only use it on your own turn.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 16, 2014, 02:29
It's triggered by a Healing Surge. And after the turn I had in mind, I'm not gonna settle for simply healing myself and otherwise just standing around looking pretty. I'm just not sure what target to pick yet.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 16, 2014, 02:29
He could. It's a free action that triggers off spending a healing surge in any way. And it wouldn't take a turn, you could still delay.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 16, 2014, 02:33
He could. It's a free action that triggers off spending a healing surge in any way. And it wouldn't take a turn, you could still delay.

Uh? My character sheet says I'm allowed to spend an additional healing surge, triggered by spending one, but Marek's action didn't have anything to do with those.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 16, 2014, 02:37
Marek used a Healing Word on you. That allows you to spend a healing surge and regain additional hp indicated by the roll of d6 he made. It's a leader thing. (and you got healed that way before, in the first fight... though I think that time it might've been from Gosok's Rune of Mending which works a bit differently)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 16, 2014, 02:39
Yeah, Gosok's thing actually triggered a surge for me. If I can tap into that Healing Word, than that's indeed what I am going to do.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 16, 2014, 02:44
Yep, it does trigger a surge so you totally shou-... wait, what am I doing? Nope, forget all that I said, don't trigger the amulet and wait there nicely for the gnome to blast you to unconsciousness. >_>
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 16, 2014, 02:47
...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on March 16, 2014, 04:34
That barbarian guy seems really dangerous, so I'm going to focus on keeping him away from us for a few turns. I think that is the best use of my abilities right now. So try to not get too close to him (no closer that 5 squares) and focus on the other enemies.

On that note, we really can't stay so close together with that illusionist around. I don't know whether we can mob the illusionist or spread out before getting rid of at least one of the wolves though.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 16, 2014, 05:00
I'm fast enough to get to any enemy, so I can focus on wherever we seem weakest at the end of this round.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on March 16, 2014, 10:05
Since the other Wolf was just proned so beautifully I suggest we mob the other one right now then we can decide to finish the first or split to deal with the Illusionist and Beserker.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 16, 2014, 12:33
I'm in ur PBF processing ur turn. For the record you were correct in counting the damage bonuses Dee - you get +2 against the gnome, and +4 against the wolf (they stack because one is a power bonus and other is non-specific one).
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 16, 2014, 12:34
Finally - death and destruction on my part ((:

I'll edit them into my post.

EDIT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijZRCIrTgQc)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 16, 2014, 14:03
IC post is up, hopefully I didn't mess anything up processing the turn. No fluff description because I need to go to sleep shortly, will edit it in tommorow.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on March 17, 2014, 06:32
Blech.  I realised that for the first move, I could've used Moment of Glory and knocked a whole bunch of enemies to the ground, instead of eating stupid damage and opportunity attacks.

/me rages at idiocy
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on March 17, 2014, 08:48
Sorry for attacking the gnome instead of the wolf. I was hoping that I could take her out before she acts and then Gosok and Isirius could take the wolf out before it acts. With that disappointing damage, I might have not succeeded, so perhaps it was not the best of plans.

Also, I thought that perhaps we could knock her unconscious and question her afterwards. How does that sound?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 17, 2014, 09:11
Previous post updated with description, I will now switch browsers to less-tab heavy one and proceed with the new turn

Quote
Evil eye of the Vistani
Hate. So. Much. Hate.

Edit:
Blech.  I realised that for the first move, I could've used Moment of Glory and knocked a whole bunch of enemies to the ground, instead of eating stupid damage and opportunity attacks.

/me rages at idiocy
You know what'd also help? Remembering that your Lance of Faith has other effects other than the damage :P
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on March 17, 2014, 22:18
Lucky you should probably move to E6. You'll have +1 Defenses and Resist all 2, and if you're still bloodied you'll have an additional +2 from my Shield the Fallen feat.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on March 17, 2014, 22:55
Lucky you should probably move to E6. You'll have +1 Defenses and Resist all 2, and if you're still bloodied you'll have an additional +2 from my Shield the Fallen feat.
If you happened to kill the wolf with your attack or if Isirius manages to kill the wolf with his attack, perhaps moving further to the left would be better?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 17, 2014, 23:07
If you happened to kill the wolf with your attack or if Isirius manages to kill the wolf with his attack, perhaps moving further to the left would be better?

Don't think I killed it. And I wouldn't (officially) know until after my turn, even if I'm now attacking something that's already dead.... *ponders*

Of course, if either Gosok or myself did kill the wolf, chances are I would have noticed and changed my course of action...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on March 17, 2014, 23:34
Don't think I killed it. And I wouldn't (officially) know until after my turn, even if I'm now attacking something that's already dead.... *ponders*

Of course, if either Gosok or myself did kill the wolf, chances are I would have noticed and changed my course of action...

Well, my numbers might be bit off, but they are probably close:

Most pessimistic estimate of the wolf's HP based on the attack that bloodied it = 77
The amount of damage we have dealt to it = 75

This assumes that Marek attacked Dire Wolf 1 instead of Dire Wolf 2 (like is written in his IC post).
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 18, 2014, 07:54
Quote
This assumes that Marek attacked Dire Wolf 1 instead of Dire Wolf 2 (like is written in his IC post).
Blergh, that's what I get for not paying attention enough. He did attack Dire Wolf 1, post amended, so will be the map in a moment. The flip side is that Dire Wolf 2 is thus neither bloodied nor vulnerable to radiant.

@LuckyDee: Gosok's attack won't kill the wolf, but Isirius' can - if you want to modify your movement tell me.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on March 18, 2014, 09:12
Bortek delays until after Berak.

Goshdarn, that was clever. :P

*puts the Orb of Inevitable Continuance on his shopping list*

Guysh, I hope you are ready, because Bortek is coming. I'll slow him down for a turn. Better get rid of that wolf fast.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 18, 2014, 09:47
Quote
*puts the Orb of Inevitable Continuance on his shopping list*
Wouldn't work actually since EEotV doesn't have an Implement keyword and thus gains no benefits from orb equipped
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on March 18, 2014, 09:54
Wouldn't work actually since EEotV doesn't have an Implement keyword and thus gains no benefits from orb equipped.

Ah, perhaps it was changed then. Right now I'm on the non-CBLoader version of CB and the info might be outdated. (can't get CBLoader working with this particular computer)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 18, 2014, 10:00
It doesn't have implement keyword in the original article either, only Charm keyword >_>
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on March 18, 2014, 10:09
Not that. I meant that in my version, the daily on the Orb of Inevitable Continuance says:
Quote
One of your powers that is due to end at the end of this turn instead lasts until the end of your next turn.

It does not specify that it has to be a power I originally cast using this orb, so the lack of the implement keyword should not matter. (At least as far as I understand the rules.)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 18, 2014, 10:16
Oh... huh. Well now that you mention that it does indeed say that and work that way. Darn them controllers and their tricky tricks (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15336046/emot-argh.gif)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on March 20, 2014, 09:31
Just as another reminder: Anyone who is bloodied gets +2 to all defenses and saving throws while they are adjacent to me. Also you get resist all 2 from my class feature.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 20, 2014, 10:21
Wolf should be dead after Gosok's attack.

Edit after looking at init list: So what I mean here is that you're clear to act thelaptop.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 20, 2014, 11:53
Edit after looking at init list: So what I mean here is that you're clear to act thelaptop.

If you don't mind...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 20, 2014, 12:06
*facepalms* Me bad, for some reason I thought you already made your move. I think lately I'm getting to easily distr-OOOOOH, SHINY!
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on March 20, 2014, 18:09
Man, I'm soooo confused!  O.o
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 20, 2014, 21:09
Man, I'm soooo confused!  O.o
Four words: Wolf dead, your turn.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on March 20, 2014, 23:40
And I think I finally realised what you meant by "Lance of Faith is more than just damage dealing".  =.=

And I didn't realise that Dire Wolves were actually that big.  O.O
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 21, 2014, 08:33
And that ladies and gentelmen is how you escape a static mote. Gosok is one lucky Mul, I rolled 3 on the d20 there ><

@thelaptop - I'd reccomend careful read of your charsheet, you've at least two bonuses that your party would very much like to know about. That's a leader thing man! And yes, Dire Wolves are large (alas not in charge) which makes them 2x2 critters.

@Gosok's movement - and here we are reminded of an important fact - charging ends your turn except for free actions, so unless you have a way to spend a free action to get more actions (*coughActionPointscough*) there is no Protective Gale for you.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on March 21, 2014, 09:26
Alright fine. No Gale. 
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on March 21, 2014, 20:27
Question to Gosok's player: if I fire off Shifty Maneuver, could I get you to shuffle over to G8 for some tasty, tasty flanking action?

Isirius will also get to shift 1 square - ideally away from the guy with the big axe.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 21, 2014, 23:15
I don't really need to shift away: in the current set up, I can summon my Scourge, bop the big guy on the head (it has Reach) and even step away afterwards, if I want to.

But I could stil do the same from H7, of course.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on March 22, 2014, 01:34
Sure. I can move to G8. Just be sure to mark the bastard. I don't really want to take a hit from this guy.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on March 22, 2014, 02:01
Sure. I can move to G8. Just be sure to mark the bastard. I don't really want to take a hit from this guy.

I wouldn't put it past this creizy basterd to attack you anyway or even take opportunity attacks to charge at the squishies. Also, if you look at turn 1, you will notice that he used some kind of area attack. If I understand the rules correctly, that would not trigger the Combat Challenge if Quill is included among the targets.

[EDIT] Now that I think about it, area attacks should trigger attacks of opportunity, but Bortek did not, so there is probably something else going on there. Well, be careful anyway.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 22, 2014, 02:18
@slave - only area and ranged attacks provoke OA, close burst and close blast do not, and Bortek's was the second kind.
@xander - there is a problem with your idea, namely the table is difficult terrain so shift 1 won't allow you to move there.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on March 22, 2014, 07:12
Well, if Isirius does want to shift away, the option is there.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on March 22, 2014, 22:09
Xander if you move to my former location I can shift again on my move to give flanking at least.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 24, 2014, 12:05
Soooooo..... did anyone mistakenly assume it's not their turn lately?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 24, 2014, 12:17
People responsible have been poked. With BFG shots. Note the plural. Hopefully that will suffice.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on March 25, 2014, 04:20
People responsible have been poked. With BFG shots. Note the plural. Hopefully that will suffice.
Dodged'em le grand inquisiteur.

Sorry guys, work was awkward, and then there's Deus Ex: Human Revolution.  And having mild heart attacks from KK.

The other useful ability comes from Sacred Flame, where an ally I can see either makes a saving throw or gains temporary HP equal to 5 (+3 (Cha bonus) +2 (half my current level)).  I keep forgetting all these goodies I have... so glad there's a non-newbie Leader among us.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 25, 2014, 06:15
And having mild heart attacks from KK.

Ah, you’ve seen his new Facebook profile pic too ><
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on March 25, 2014, 06:57
Ah, you’ve seen his new Facebook profile pic too ><
Actually no, not that.  I'm on hiatus from facebook.

Just other offline updates.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 25, 2014, 07:54
The other useful ability comes from Sacred Flame, where an ally I can see either makes a saving throw or gains temporary HP equal to 5 (+3 (Cha bonus) +2 (half my current level)).  I keep forgetting all these goodies I have... so glad there's a non-newbie Leader among us.

Eh, you're still overlooking two:
- Whenever you use cleric healing power that allows the target to spend a healing surge, said target also gains a +2 bonus to next attack roll (from Battle Cleric's Lore)
- Ally spending an AP to attack while within 5 squares from you gets +1 to damage rolls on that attack (from your current holy symbol)

Turn update will arrive sometime later today.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 25, 2014, 11:40
My Stride ended in G10, not F10. No response to my mental blast? Or anything to be gleaned?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 25, 2014, 11:48
One of these days. One of these days I'm going to make an update without missing any stupid little details. Map corrected.

And no, no response from the man and since your telepathy is only means of communication not Charles Xavier level mind rape reading you can't exactly "glean" information out of him.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 25, 2014, 12:08
I wasn't attempting to rape him, I was merely trying to see if catching him off guard would provoke a response of some kind. Not that I expected anything.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 25, 2014, 13:05
Erm... how can Bortek miss Quill and Gosok on his own turn, then still interrupt Quill's turn for another attack?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 25, 2014, 13:16
Bortek had a free action attack triggered by being bloodied. I did mention that bloodied condition can trigger stuff at times, this is one of them.

Not like it's the only kind of thing that can interrupt a turn, both immediate interrupt, immediate reaction and opportunity actions can be *only* taken on another creature's turn, in response to a trigger (two examples of such would be Opportunity Attacks - which are immediate interrupts opportunity actions triggered by someone moving without shifting or teleporting while near enemy or using a ranged attack near enemy; and Quill's combat challenge which is an immediate interrupt that triggers when a marked target makes an attack that doesn't include her or shifts while adjacent to her)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on March 25, 2014, 16:38
Those last three words are particularly important - it means that until next turn, he doesn't have to worry about being marked by me, since I'm not next to the sod.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on March 27, 2014, 20:55
Also even if Quill isn't adjacent, the guy is still marked so he still takes a -2 to attacks not including Quill as a target. Also was the attack that hit me an area attack? My shield gives me resist 2 all against ranged and area attacks.

Edit: Ok posted. My god if you can't finish him this round mr.shouty is going to make a reappearance. I mean they guy has 'dead' written all over him, literally.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 28, 2014, 07:49
Quote
Also was the attack that hit me an area attack?
Nope, close attack - still AoE but not area for purpose of that shield of yours. That is a good question though, starting next combat I'm going to have to put up some sort of tags for what kind of attack did just hit you, remind me if I forget.

Oh and as for finishing him off - he still has a decent chunk of hp. You might just kill him off, but it's not a sure thing yet :]
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 29, 2014, 09:25
... starting to have a sense of deja vu...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 29, 2014, 10:53
Nah, must be in your mind. Besides I poked thelaptop about it yesterday.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on March 29, 2014, 18:34
Well, the IRC client crashed out when the server was rebooted, so I didn't see anything.

Thought you'd do an update when the round ended.  Anyway, I'll make my move in the next hour or so.

Edit: Did you forget to add the coordinates to the lastest map?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 30, 2014, 06:51
Generally speaking I'm only doing updates when monsters move unless:
a) something interrupts the flow like that bloodied attack after Quill's turn
b) I notice something in player moves that might cause a need for new map for clarity
c) someone explicitly calls for a map update to better understand current situation
Otherwise you are expected to proceed with your moves.

And yes I forgot to add the coordinates, for some reason the mapping software doesn't remember the setting after being closed :/
Turn update a little bit later, once I woke up fully.

--- Posts merged ---

So that's that for this combat. Since that was the second encounter in row you were awarded a milestone. These usually happen every other encounter and grant you an additional Action Point and sometimes magic items interact with them (in past you were also limited to 1 item daily power per day + 1 per milestone but that limitation got removed). Per houserule I'm also letting you recover a spent daily power other than the ones coming from items - since nobody had more than one of these spent I just listed who regained what.

I've added a listing of damage type changing weapons to the first post of this thread to track their on/off status more easily, so those of you that have one keep an eye on it and correct me if I forget to update it. Do mind that I am going assume they get turned off when sheathed, and there will be times you are assumed to sheathe weapons unless you explicitly say you don't (like when going to extended rest, or are in town where you don't expect trouble... yet, or if you need both of your hands, etc.).

Aside of that first OOC post now also has data similar to the one I post at end of encounters but calculated in context of whole campaign and a list of who dealt a killing blow to what monster. Oh and xp tracking. Enjoy.

Edit: I also intend to talk more about monster types on account of Bortek being slightly special but that'll come later today.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on March 30, 2014, 07:20
in past you were also limited to 1 item daily power per day + 1 per milestone but that limitation got removed

Does that mean that a character with 2 magic items with daily powers used to be able to only use one of these powers before reaching a milestone? And that limitation was present only in some earlier version of 4E rules?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 30, 2014, 07:39
Indeed it does. A small correction though, I forgot it also increased by 1 per tier, so an epic tier character could use three item daily powers before having to wait for a milestone.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 30, 2014, 07:41
I don't have time to get myself into story mode right now, but I'll have plenty this evening. Regardless, unless anyone has a brilliant other plan, I propose an extended rest - what's the time of day in game, btw? - some time soon.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on March 30, 2014, 07:50
If the DM is OK with it then lets rest. There are ways around your lack of healing surges though.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 30, 2014, 07:50
I don't keep exact track of time unlike in Hackmaster but generally it is not terribly late into the day - that ship was fast. And aside from your surge deficit (which slave just proposed to fix with a ritual) you are in pretty decent shape party wise ;)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 30, 2014, 11:31
So monster types, or rather monster roles, let's talk about them. In general there are three kinds of them - there are speciality roles, there are the regular roles, and there is a singular sub-role.

I've already talked about one of the speciality roles:
- Minions as described earlier are 1 hp wonders that are there to crowd you and four/five/six (depending on tier) of them count as about one regular monster.
- This combat you've faced another speciality role. Our late friend Bortek was and Elite monster. Those, unlike Minions who come in swarms instead count as two monsters. As such Bortek had about twice as many hp as a regular monster (152 in his case to be precise) and packed much bigger wallop - his basic melee attack dealt 2d12+3 damage actually. On top of that Elite monsters get a +2 bonus to all saving throws (which means "save ends" effects have a harder time sticking against them) and come with 1 Action Point to give you even more trouble. Notably though most other stats like defenses don't get an upgrade, though Elites might at times get more interesting power sets (Bortek was a bit of an disappointment in that regard actually).

Regular roles are the bread and butter of monsters, and in fact monsters that have a speciality role nowdays have a regular role as well - Bortek for example was an Elite Brute. The roles are as follows:
- Artillery monsters are, as name implies, geared towards ranged and area attacks. They tend to have higher accuracy, but lower health. Gnome Illusionist you've faced this combat was of this role.
- Brute monsters come with high hit-points and increased damage (usually of melee kind) but tend to have lower than average defense values. You've only met non-pure ones thus far - Bortek and Zombie Shamblers (Minion Brute)
- Controller monsters are... well, imagine Berak but on the enemy side. Yeah. Obviously you haven't seen any yet.
- Lurker monsters tend to alternate high-damage attacks with evasive abilities on alternating turn. They don't have much in terms of health but are tricky to fight effectively. No examples yet.
- Skirmisher monsters are kind of a baseline. Their attack, health and defense values tend to be average, but they too have a niche of their own namely mobility and combat advantage exploitation. Dire Wolves this encounter didn't really get to show it off but their bites actually dealt more damage against prone targets and could knock prone if the target gave CA.
- Soldier monsters are the tough nuts to crack. They don't get higher hp, but instead they boast increased defense values. The also tend to have ways to mark enemies, and at times punish breaking those marks the way Quill does. Skeletons from first encounter were of this role.

Finally the sole sub-role is the Leader. It's kind of rare, in fact I don't think there is one in current adventure, but when they appear they're going to annoy you by granting other monsters various bonuses, temporary hp, and occasionally even flat-out healing them. Have fun.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on March 31, 2014, 12:38
I have a small question, before getting into story and such - was Bortek alive? Before we beat him to a pulp, I mean. Was there bleeding and such... will roll on a skill if needed to determine.

Just trying to figure out how safe all that wonderful, wonderful food is to eat.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 31, 2014, 13:24
A question to your question: regardless of his state of being, did you actually see him touch any of the food?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on March 31, 2014, 15:20
I don't know, I was too busy looking at the food.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on March 31, 2014, 21:30
Yep, he seemed alive, he bled and all that. No, you didn't see him touching the food but then again you didn't have much of an opportunity to before the hostilities broke out.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on March 31, 2014, 23:12
Can I please get a description of the room I'm looking into?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 01, 2014, 09:05
did SKRen give a green light for Gosok's participation should it happen?

I'm assuming that he implicitly gave his premission by joining Berak by the fire. It should be easy to fix if it turns out that he didn't. :P

Should I write the ritual casting fluff or will you do it?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 01, 2014, 09:07
Your ritual, your fluff. If you want to be 100% sure feel free to PM the draft to me for a look through.

Edit: By the way, thelaptop you might want to actually spend some healing surges.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 01, 2014, 09:32
Xander, you should probably use your Second Wind right now, since using it in battle would perhaps be less desirable and you only get one use before an extended rest anyway.

Quote from: Malek Deneith
until next extended rest Quill can not heal hit points other than through Second Wind, does not recover spent encounter powers
So basically, if Quill goes to 0 HP or below, she is guaranteed to die? That is seriously risky. Considering that, we should probably just take an extended rest instead of casting the ritual.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 01, 2014, 09:44
@Second Wind - Second Wind technically is not a power so Quill will regain that one after short rest without a problem. As for the death question I'd probably rule she stabilizes at current HP if healed while at 0 or less (or if she rolled nat 20 on a death save) but does not regain hp and thus remains unconscious.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 01, 2014, 09:46
Considering that, we should probably just take an extended rest instead of casting the ritual.

After this?

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15336046/4e%20PBF/WKspeak-cooltextcom.png)

I plan on having Isirius live a little longer...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 01, 2014, 09:51
Dee, roll me a perception check.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 01, 2014, 09:54
I plan on having Isirius live a little longer...
Ok, I'll cast the ritual. :P
I have to think a bit about the fluff though.

Second Wind technically is not a power so Quill will regain that one after short rest without a problem.
Since we can take as many short rest as we wish as long as the DM does not bombard us with encounters, would that imply that Quill can spend any amount of healing surges between encounters?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 01, 2014, 09:55
Assuming you meant active Perception: 1d20+3=20 (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4453758/)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 01, 2014, 09:56
Technically you can. Practically it might make me bring down the hammer if abused... for obvious reasons.

@up - that I did mean and thank you.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 01, 2014, 12:43
Oooooh and I still have my Lesser Planar Ally to do some dirty work for me, too... goodie!
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 02, 2014, 09:21
So I'm assuming that the new arrivals did not notice Berak or his Shaped Consciousness. Since Berak is still in the corridor, I'm also assuming that Berak is not in a position that is visible to them. Is the Shaped Consciousness even something that that are able to detect? Would I have to roll for stealth if I were to try to sneak away to warn the others?

Assuming that Isirius would be able to lure them into the room that the others are in and we were waiting for them in ambush, would that give us a surprise round?

Also, how exactly does stealth against monsters work. Do they roll against your stealth roll or is there some DC that the stealth roll has to beat?

And most importantly, is escaping a combat area allowed if we are in trouble?

EDIT: Also, LuckyDee, how good is Isirius's bluff skill?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 02, 2014, 09:44
They did not notice Berak not Shaped Consciousness yet. Conjurations are visible so they'll probably notice the consciousness shortly, after they stop focusing on first thing that came into their view. As for Berak's physical body they probably won't notice him at the moment, but since we established the corridor is visible from the door to room where the party is, the opposite holds true also, even if the fact the human is on stairs down and has to look past Isirius makes it harder for him. Now based on your posts I am interpreting Berak as being at least partially through the short corridor so... I'd say you have a fair chance of remaining unnoticed if you keep still but trying to move away would require a Stealth check.

@Ambush - depends on how exactly it would play out

@Stealth - stealth rolls are usually made against passive Perception.

@Escaping combat - you could try but then again your opponents could follow you as well. Keep in mind that you're not exactly familiar with lay of the land around the Cairn.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 02, 2014, 09:58
- Is Bluff also against passive Insight?

- Would teleportation also require a stealth check?

- Would Isirius be able to get through the door leading to the room where the other are and around the corner with 2 run actions?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 02, 2014, 10:05
@Bluff - under normal circumstances yes

@Teleportation - that would work without a stealth check but any encounter power used like that would be spent for the following combat if any (unless you'd somehow manage to stall for five minutes or more and spend that time resting)

Also, to be transparent, since conjurations are visible I am going to rule that it's disappearance (due to being intentionally unsummoned or due to you leaving the range needed to maintain it) would incur a small chance (I'm thinking a perception roll for the enemy vs high-ish DC for the level) to notice that something just happened. They won't be sure exactly what happened in such situation, but they'll know *something* did if they make the check.

Edit: @Isirius and running - if running, barely so
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 02, 2014, 10:29
OK then, LuckyDee, let me know telepathically what you want to do.

If you want to risk bluffing your way to safety, let me know and Berak will fade away quietly.

If you want to leg it, let me know and I will either attack them or slow them down since they are in the range of my Shaped Consciousness (I can cast through it).

Question to the DM: The preceding actually depends on whether both Berak and Isirius can take an action before the enemies get a chance to roll for initiative / attack us.

All in all, I think that the corridor that I am in might be a good place to fight them. My area powers can be effective when enemies are bunched together in tight spaces. Perhaps we might try to hold the doorway leading to the room that the others are in.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 02, 2014, 10:45
@Question - I'd say if you act abruptly enough you'd get one action each before initiative gets rolled.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 02, 2014, 10:49
So basically, 2 run actions to get to safety is not possible for Isirius.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 02, 2014, 10:55
Well he could get lucky on initiative ;)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 02, 2014, 11:12
And if he gets unlucky, he will be attacked by all 4 enemies and die. Not really an encouraging thought. I really wish I was higher level so that I could teleport him to safety.

EDIT: Well, I guess it could work if I can slow all of the enemies down and they don't all have ranged attacks that can reach Isirius. Are they bunched up enough so that I can slow all of them down with a static mote?

EDIT2: I don't suppose I could use an action point to lay down 2 static motes? (Or alternatively, could Isirius use an action point to take 2 run actions?)

EDIT3: I'm kind of wishing that I had taken that power that let me roll initiative with my history score instead. :/
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 02, 2014, 11:43
@Edit - pardon my tardy reply, you forced me to fire up map creator to put the situation into solid image (Isirius' hp and status being holdover from post-battle until he decides to spend or not that last surge of his)
Map
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(and yes, the grid is a bit off near the top of the image - sadly I'm working with map backgrounds that don't line up nicely with the grid generated by maptool)

@Edit2 - I'd say no on account that we're working here with situation outside of normal combat turn structure

@Edit3 - There is one like that? O_O
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 02, 2014, 11:51
Thank god, I thought that they would be a lot closer to Isirius. Sorry for giving you trouble with the map, we might even not need it if Isirius decides not to run away.

@Edit3 - There is one like that? O_O
Quote
Strategist's Epiphany (History Utility 2): Daily, Free Action
   Trigger: You roll initiative
   Effect: You make a History check and can use the check result as your initiative check result.
Combined with my Guidance of the Past power, it would give me a reasonable chance of being at the top of the initiative list.
 
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 02, 2014, 11:52
Right. Before anything:

1)
Isirius sneaks towards the corridor's opening from the side

The map shows me approaching the doorway dead on, which is exactly what I was trying to avoid.

2) Re: bluff: I haven't had the luckiest streak ever, so far, but a +11 should count for something (:

3) Re: tactics and other scary words: this is all assuming that these NPCs are hostile/on Bortek's side. At least they didn't come running towards the sounds of screaming barbarians, snarling dire wolves and melting illusionists.

Please have a good look at 1), decide whether this changes anything and once this is resolved, I'll continue IC with some IC questions/actions.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 02, 2014, 12:04
@1 - fine point, missed that bit. Then again considering the situation I'd say the best can be done there is to move Isirius (and the consciousness by result) square to the left which, while no longer "dead on", would make no notable difference in the situation.

The rationale here is that moving over the tables wouldn't really be stealthy (and you were trying for that), and the other two remaining routes - far around tables - would a) make little sense in terms of scouting as that'd mean for him to pass close to an unchecked door or unchecked corridor and b) change the situation drastically to your disadvantage since in those setups the consciousness would no longer hidden by Isirius, even for a moment (so instantly spotted), and the encounter itself would happen a bit later, after the human at the very least came out of corridor, meaning further disadvantage to Isirius and more potential for Berak being immedietly spotted.

Won't bother with updating the map right now regardless, though if you insist on getting placed elsewhere I'll adjust this should hostilities start (*grumble mumble notenoughramtorunthedamnprogramwithoutclosingthebrowser mumble grumble*)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 02, 2014, 12:09
Yeah, thing is, I'd envisioned the room quite differently. How big a pain in the ass is it do follow up a successful recon by posting a bit of map of the scene discovered? If I had seen this map earlier, I would have used Lesser Planar Ally instead of trying any foolishness myself.

No matter anyway, I'm going to dive in...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 02, 2014, 12:12
3) Re: tactics and other scary words: this is all assuming that these NPCs are hostile/on Bortek's side. At least they didn't come running towards the sounds of screaming barbarians, snarling dire wolves and melting illusionists.
Well, the thing is, if they indeed do decide at some point that you are a hostile, you are neck deep in trouble. If they come into the room and surround you, there will probably not be a chance to escape.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 02, 2014, 12:13
If it was just enough map to give an idea how the room looks, without exact placement of people and all I guess I could manage those for future scoutings - you'd just have to remind me when that happens. Maps like the above, with enemies and all would be a major pain in the ass, at least in the moment (might change a bit once I a) get a new laptop with more ram those two-three months in the future so that I can jam more map and light/sight thingamagics without maptool choking and if b) if I manage to find better grid-fitting maps for future adventures)

Edit: Would like clarification should I bother with the 1-square repositioning or not, in case it becomes relevant later on

Edit 2: Consider this my last communication for today, any reactions to upcoming actions will happen tommorow
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 02, 2014, 12:18
No repositioning required. I'm not expecting full maps either, just a drawing of the floor plan with objects and (unmarked) grid.

Well, the thing is, if they indeed do decide at some point that you are a hostile, you are neck deep in trouble. If they come into the room and surround you, there will probably not be a chance to escape.

Come on, look at me, I'm handsome. And I smile very friendl...lely.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 02, 2014, 14:04
I'm moving to A1, because I'm assuming (since I did not have to roll for stealth at my previous position) that I won't be noticed there (no need for stealth checks). However, since A1 gives me a helluva lot more cover, I'm guessing that the information I can gain while staying there is pretty limited. Would I at least be able to listen in on the conversation that takes place or am I too far away?

---

Another problem is that Isirius can't really communicate with us. Assuming that I will stay at A1, he would have to be at least as close as -E0 to communicate with me telepathically. Assuming that Isirius will pass that square when "bringing us the guests" with the "guests" in tow, would it be possible that the two following statements are simultaneously true:
a) Isirius notices me and gives me a message with his intentions, allowing me to slip away from the door and quickly transmit the message to the others.
b) Berak does not have to roll for stealth to stay unseen.

---

Quill's attacks do fire damage, but does the Flaming Weapon enchantment actually add the fire keyword to her attacks? I'm assuming that it does, enabling her to benefit from the Burning Gauntlets. (I'm assuming that we know what the gauntlets do.)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on April 02, 2014, 19:32
Just a waitin' for the rest of us to get access to a map (since I assume the Positions discussed come from a PM map)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 02, 2014, 20:01
Not in a PM, just easy to miss, because it's linked to in the OOC thread (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6937.msg62537.html#msg62537). (I don't think that combat has broken out just yet though)

Map
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 02, 2014, 21:53
Adding a damage type adds the relevant keyword to the power, removing a damage type removes the relevant keyword.
Too far to listen on the convo in my opinion.

- Drowsy Malek
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 03, 2014, 10:45
If Isirius gets into some trouble that he can not escape from, I can use Living Missile to slide him 10 squares into the room the others are in. For that to work though, he would have to be close enough to the door and within my line of effect. It wouldn't deal any damage to him, but he would be either Immobilized (save ends) or Slowed (save ends). As a plus, as long as he is immobilized or slowed, I can slide him 10 squares on each of my turns as a minor action.

This assumes that I can slide Isirius without hurling him into someone's face. When I started this post, I assumed I could do that, but after rereading the power's description, I'm not so sure anymore. If I'm forced to slam him into somebody on the way, It would be best if there was a hostile creature nearby or between Isirius and the door. At worst, I could be forced to hit one of our own with Isirius.

Question to the DM: Can I use Living Missile Attack without selecting a secondary target?

---

I was messing around with the CB and noticed that the kalashtar racial ability triggers on an attack that targets Will.

Question to the DM: If an attack targets the Will defense, will you explicitly note that in your post?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 03, 2014, 11:25
/me pries himself from studying laptops still far away from his grasp

Hwugh? Blergh. Sorry, let me try again, but first I must consult my Magic 8-Ball...

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15336046/8ball.gif) Reply hazy try again

...well that was unhelpful. The rules don't really help much seeing as Living Missile is one of the times where power rules get a bit awkward to get the job done, so I'm going to have rule on my gut feeling. And my gut feeling is that since a) the secondary power has a target and b) the intent of power is to slam primary target into something, then no you can't just slide Isirius for free amusing as it is. What you could do is to substitute wall for target (objects are allowable subsititue for creatures given GM's permission) but that'd mean Isirius will take half damage as per normal for the power.

As for the vs Will thing I've been pretty bad about it in past two encounters (though I don't think you got hit by any) but I have plans to remedy this in coming battles.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 03, 2014, 11:39
About this:

They look like they know the place, and what little hesitation there might be is probably result of the fact they most likely spent long time "on ice".

How much do we actually know about people being frozen here? Did we see anything to indicate this (I know I specifically checked :] )? Is it part of the legend?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 03, 2014, 11:44
Fortunately, half of 2d6+4 is between 3 and 8, which is not that bad really. On a miss, Isirius would take no damage, but somehow I don't think that a wall has a particularly high reflex defense.

Quote
How much do we actually know about people being frozen here? Did we see anything to indicate this (I know I specifically checked :] )? Is it part of the legend?

This reminds me of something that I forgot. The Winter King slaughtered a Dwarven kingdom, or something along these lines. The area we are in is built by dwarves.

Did Berak get a good enough look at the Dwarves to learn something about them? For example, are they the dwarves who built this place or the dwarves whose kingdom got destroyed by the Winter King?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 03, 2014, 11:50
@LuckyDee

Quote from: IC Reply #87
- "The halfling is correct." - dwarven priest from the meeting joins the discussion - "There aren't many records of him, but Winter King is the name given to a human warlord who united several barbarian tribes and toppled the Great Dwarven Empire. He is called that because his conquest all happened during single, unnaturally long winter. No one knows where he took the power to make said winter happen but it is said that his reign ended when Raven Queen took what he done as a slight to her domain, and twisted his ability so that he and everything he touched froze into solid ice. It is one of the few last if not the last known instance of gods directly changing our world."

Quote from: IC Reply #248
- "...I'm telling you I heard something" - while Isirius and Berak were telepathically arguing the "company" came to them instead. A thin human male, squeezing water out of his black robes and a trio of dwarves, their beards still sprinkled with crystals of ice went up halfway through the northern corridor/stairs before noticing Isirius and stopping.
- "Who are you?" - the human immediatly asks - "Were you frozen too?"

Emphasis mine. I know my fluff leaves much to be desired in terms of quality but paying attention to it is recommended regardless >_>
Really I thought the implications here were quite obvious...

@slave

You didn't have a clear enough view or enough time to figure that kind of thing out I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 03, 2014, 11:55
Yeah, I caught the last reference, it's the first one that slipped my mind, thanks.

So allegiances can still go either way :(

Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 03, 2014, 11:57
Right. I'd want to applogize if my replies are tad on cranky side lately, the ^#%$ $#&@& 4#^%#@^ Daylights Saving Time is screwing with my sleep and that can make me well... cranky as mentioned above.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 03, 2014, 12:03
Hadn't noticed. Time to do a spectacular nosedive IC...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: ZicherCZ on April 04, 2014, 02:09
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15336046/8ball.gif) Reply hazy try again

Totally offtopic, but ... do I recognize an "Interstate 60" reference? Love that movie :)

In other news, I have been totally consumed by Real Life in weeks past, to the point of barely being able to lurk these forums and see all the action I missed. I guess I owe Malek an apology for such a sudden dropout of mine.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 04, 2014, 09:33
Actually I never saw or heard of "Interstate 60". I was inspired by a magic 8-ball findable in Fallout 2, which in turn was based on actual real life ones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_8-Ball).

Edit: And no apology necessary, real life happens.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 04, 2014, 13:26
- "Alright... Thray. Let's see that party of yours then" - the man relaxes a bit and follows Isirius with dwarves coming after him.

What - no handshake and introduction?!

Draw steel, men! :)

[EDIT]: And ladies, of course.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 04, 2014, 13:37
How much can Berak see from where he is standing? Can he see that they are coming?

Is Berak naturally hidden in his position or does he have to use the stealth skill to stay unseen? Actually, it would be nice if there was some kind of guideline like "if less than 20% of the square you are in is visible to the opponent, (s)he/it can't see you", so that I wouldn't have to keep asking things like that all the time.

---

Does the door open outwards of inwards? Because I'm wondering whether we could slam the door closed after the human enters and hold it closed, so that we could off him before the dwarves can enter.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 04, 2014, 13:42
Probably not see without peeking which could make him exposed - he could hear the footsteps coming though. They can't see you otherwise, but they will once someone reaches -A0. Also there are no hard and fast guidelines - we're not working by Rules As Written (henceforth referred to RAW) but on the spot rulings and common sense hence you'll have to ask each time for this kind of situations. And outwards.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 05, 2014, 00:53
What - no handshake and introduction?!

Although the rest of the post was OOC fluff, the question is no less serious: he declined to shake Isirius' hand and give him his name?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 05, 2014, 02:15
I'll admit I kind of missed implications when replying to IC yesterday, I was getting a bit sleepy by that time. Name got retconned into previous post. Still no handshake though - good bluff check made him a bit more trusting of Isirius but apparently not trusting enough yet :P
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on April 05, 2014, 06:56
What - no handshake and introduction?!

Come on, man, you can't expect every random mook we kill to have a name and a backstory...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 05, 2014, 06:59
No, but a little bit of common decency... :)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 05, 2014, 07:15
Derp, reverted the comment on lesser number of prep rounds, my error.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 05, 2014, 07:26
Was that your planar ally I saw behind you? Why did it disappear, is it shy?

It seems unlikely that we would be able to avoid combat. How do we explain the table full of body parts? It was Bortek's doing. The fact that he had time to do set it up seems to contradict the fact that we saved them, since we are recent arrivals.

To Malek: I'm assuming that I can hear them talking, now that they are getting closer.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 05, 2014, 07:44
You're assuming they and Bortek are on the same team...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 05, 2014, 07:48
@Slave - I'm going to say they'll be close enough to hear after one of those two preparation rounds you've been given.

Also I'd like for Berak and others to state their actions for said prep rounds - or state they're not doing anything - before making any serious progress in IC.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 05, 2014, 10:03
I'm going to assume that Barak has not heard any conversation yet. He will wait at the door until he hears something. He will then decide what to do. Ultimately, I'd like Berak to learn that Isirius wants to try a peaceful approach, so that he could relay Isirius's intentions to the others.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 05, 2014, 11:22
Again Isirius walks back to the previous room, keeping an eye out for the others, ready to send a few soothing thoughts at each of them at the earliest available opportunity.

Right on top of it.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 05, 2014, 11:35
Well, you will be entering the room along with the human, which will not give us a lot of time to react. If we are expecting trouble, we will probably be wielding weapons and looking ready to charge at them.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 06, 2014, 01:24
And vice versa, if we are wielding weapons and looking ready to charge at them, we can expect trouble.

And in game terms - unless you lay down a full-blown ambush - what's the difference between being cool and bein ready - 1 minor action? Not worth the provocation, if you ask me.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 06, 2014, 02:37
Gah, sorry, I once again posted something ambiguous.

I meant that we would not have a lot of time to react to your pacifying telepathic messages. Since by default we would probably be looking very cautious, we would possibly seem quite unfriendly and it would be nice to have some more time to appear unthreatening.

Besides, Berak would by his nature be looking for more information anyways. He is quite cautious, since lack of caution has cost him before.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 06, 2014, 03:15
Oh, right, I get you now. If so, I'll give you my best "At ease" and hope not to get stabbed in the back :S
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 07, 2014, 11:28
First of all apologies for not posting any since last OOC reply - I'll admit that aside from waiting for the (now mostly done) team reactions I did feel a bit lazy :P I will do my best to motivate myself for an IC post tommorow, I swear. *crosses fingers behind his back*

That being said though I need to issue a warning that due to my current laptop's continuing deterioration we might hit a stop once the game enters another combat be it here or a bit later (the map tracking program is a bit resource intensive and my laptop is having even more trouble handing the strain than it did lately). I will do my best to keep the game going until that happens, but when it does happen we'll be looking at a roughly 2 month pause :/
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 08, 2014, 12:13
What did Berak hear then? That determines what Berak is doing currently.

If he found reason to believe that Isirius is trying to be friendly with the group, he went to the table (C7) and is examining the body parts, trying to find out how old they are. (Or so it appears. Actually he concentrating his attention on the doorway.)

If not, he retreated along the wall to A10 and is looking cautiously at the door.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 08, 2014, 12:28
Berak probably heard Ravide's last sentence. Interpret that as you will :P
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 08, 2014, 14:50
I'll talk us to safety tomorrow... Or so I hope.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 09, 2014, 12:12
- They follow the King, but don't seem to be hostile towards Isirius yet.

yet.

Gee, thanks, shard for brains ;)
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: slave on April 11, 2014, 09:57
Does Berak recognize something about the dwarves or the human?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 11, 2014, 11:36
Roll me a history check.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 14, 2014, 13:32
Am I the only one who cares about this story stuff?

I'll gladly proceed with the talk, and I know I'm not the only one who posted something, but it feels like the progression of the entire game now hinges on me, and that makes me kind of uncomfortable...
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on April 14, 2014, 16:18
Am I the only one who cares about this story stuff?
It's not that.  I'm just swamped with work before flying off.  =(
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on April 15, 2014, 18:13
I've sent the last week sleeping or wishing I was asleep. As for my moves. I'm not sure what to do with Gosok. He's in the background. He doesn't speak (and if he did it would NOT help). I mean if I was really laying this true to form I would... hmm, maybe I'll do that.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 18, 2014, 10:00
Well, apologies for the delay, fired up the IC again. Somehow I feel Isirius is going to hurt someone real bad real soon.

Possibly himself.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 22, 2014, 09:36
Uuuuh, so I guess the game died I guess? Not much reaction from people other than LuckyDee lately and I'll admit my own heart wasn't much into it with other things drawing my attention away.

>_>

<_<
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 25, 2014, 14:17
Keh.

Are all PBF campaigns as... fickle as the ones I've witnessed so far?
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 25, 2014, 14:31
My first and best run lasted over a year before it pewtered out. But yeah fickle they tend to be. Maybe I'll just stick to board games next time. Battletech anyone? :P
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: thelaptop on April 29, 2014, 08:36
Well I've been overseas on holiday, sorry for the non reply.  Still out though... =/
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: S.K. Ren on April 30, 2014, 19:29
What we need is one of those virtual tabletop programs, Voice Chat and just play. We would certainly progress faster.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: LuckyDee on April 30, 2014, 23:49
What we need is one of those virtual tabletop programs, Voice Chat and just play. We would certainly progress faster.

...if we all are ever awake at the same time... I do like the idea, though.
Title: Re: Chaosforge 4e PBF - OOC
Post by: Xander Morhaime on May 02, 2014, 13:23
Or just make do with Skype, a streaming client, and GameTable or something of the sort. That's what I did for a while.