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 21 
 on: September 14, 2023, 17:21 
Started by Icy - Last post by Icy
Both suggestions are great ideas. Having mute enemies is definitely a design to make them stronger, but I can agree that the slight nerf to them with making sounds is a worthwhile trade-off for less "cheating" and more sensical, canonical gameplay.

 22 
 on: September 14, 2023, 04:59 
Started by Icy - Last post by Omega Tyrant
You're probably right about allowing any other build access to Vampyre would be too powerful, even if the weapon was very weak. My suggestion would be perhaps the Blood Sword could be given a nerfed form of Vampyre that doesn't work on enemies that give no EXP (so no being able to farm revived enemies nor spontaneously spawned enemies like Lost Souls from Pain Elementals), but I do not know if that would be easily programmable, and if not, then the idea would have to go.

As for Mother-In-Law, I would agree with changing its assembly to PPFN, unless a couple more assemblies are turned into five mod assemblies so it doesn't stick out (a couple other five mod candidates could be Biggest Fucking Gun becoming BBBFF or BBFFF, and Nano-Shrapnel becoming PPTTN or PPPTN).

_____________

Also for a couple new suggestions:

*Have the character info screen show the amount of remaining enemies on the floor

Currently you can already deduce this by subtracting the total enemies killed count from the total enemies encountered count, so this wouldn't be giving the player any new tactical information, it will only make information already accessible more convenient to immediately see without having to do any math, especially so if you haven't killed every enemy on all prior floors (where you then need to also keep track of how many enemies you failed to kill up to that point, or have to pay attention to how much the total enemies count increases when entering a new floor).

*Fix exotics, uniques, and artifacts not having sounds for all actions, as well as some enemies not having sounds

Currently most exotics/uniques/artifacts lack any sounds for picking them up and switching to them, while most of the melee weapons have no sounds for attacking with them. Players can easily fix this by giving them whatever sounds they desire through editing the sound.lua/soundhq.lua file, but your average player probably lacks the technical knowledge or willingness to do that, and regardless it comes off as unpolished for this to be the default without modding (it certainly was really dissonant for me when I finally picked up the Dragonslayer for the first time and then there was no sounds at all when hitting enemies with it).

I would extend this to mute enemies too (e.g. nightmare enemies, the Arena Master, the Agony Elemental, the Lava Elemental, and the Apostle); it is unclear if their muteness was an intentional design choice to make them "harder" to fight, but regardless of if it's intentional, I would argue it again comes off as the game being unpolished for some enemies to nonsensically be completely mute (the Arena Master even has spoken lines, so why is he mute when you fight him?), while it additionally indirectly gives Intuition a very unneeded buff (by it being necessary to know mute enemies are around without seeing them outright). You can also easily mod in sounds for these mute enemies in the aforementioned sound.lua files to "fix" this, which players such as myself have done just to make the game feel more lively and polished, creating a grey area issue where if doing basic aesthetic modding enabled by the devs is considered "cheating", as it does technically give you a slight gameplay advantage by allowing you to detect these enemies are around without Intuition. Having all enemies make sounds by default would get rid of that ethical greyness around modding these enemies' sounds, and ensures all players are on a more even playing field regardless of if they mod enemy sounds or not.

 23 
 on: September 12, 2023, 20:43 
Started by Icy - Last post by Icy
Regarding having enemies revealed, I agree in that it would need more opinions.

Regarding Power Armor, I like the idea. Having a set value is better when the prior value is lower, and it's a clever way to indirectly buff Green Armor and Blue Armor with the assembly.

Regarding your proposed assembly of Blood Sword, I agree that if you are using a melee build, giving up an Onyx Pack is a big cost. An Onyx Pack into a weapon is a bit of a wild idea, but I wouldn't be opposed to it. However, I do think easy access to Vampyre would be overpowered. Any build could use it, assuming they have at least an extra point or two across Brute or even Eagle Eye, or even just finishing it with an Agility Pack. With this, you could take a Cateye build for example, have this as a support weapon, and be able to farm a weak respawning enemy for free recovery, whether it's coming from an Archvile cut off from approaching, Lost Souls from a Pain Elemental, or basically anything on Nightmare. For melee builds, use of Vampyre is to help kill everything and exit the floor with full health. For non-melee builds wielding this, there are various ways to also kill everything and also exit the floor with full health, especially when only the killing blow is required to gain the health, such as weakening enemies, luring them in, and the finishing them off for free health. I think Vampyre is too powerful to be accessible to all.

One suggestion I have is to change Mother-In-Law from PPPFN to PPFN, but maintaining the same effects and everything, just for consistency among assemblies.

 24 
 on: September 11, 2023, 21:34 
Started by Icy - Last post by Omega Tyrant
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Regarding having enemies revealed, it would have to restrict all bonus levels, all boss levels, and all dark levels, but even then I think it would impact too much. Having that level of intel in a game that is strategic and tactical is extremely powerful. On HNTR where you might get a single group of 6-8 enemies, that also lets you see where a good portion of them are as you clear them out through the floor. I don't think having a few stragglers be annoying to find is enough to justify such a fundamental change.

I don't think it's really that major of a fundamental change, floors are basically cleared once you reach the final three enemies on it, no matter how many were there before (and you could always just find a Tracking Map, or Computer Map with a Technician, rendering it moot). But we seem to be at a stalemate on this one, so this is something that others will need to comment on.

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Just as a comment, I think Mother-In-Law would be pretty insane with Inquisitor Set.

It certainly could be, though that is going to be an exceptionally rate combo to obtain, especially if the proposed generation nerfs to the Inquisitor pieces go through.

_______________

A couple more suggestions I thought about:

*Have Power Armor give +20% movement speed to the base armor, instead of having a set 0% movement speed regardless of the armor used

This change would keep Powered Red Armor the same, but will give an additional bonus to making Powered Blue Armor or especially Powered Green Armor instead, as they'll now have a nice speed bonus over the Powered Red Armor, helping to balance them out having weaker protection (well Powered Red Armor probably still wins, but +10% movement speed with 60% plasma resistance from Powered Blue Armor is something you might want to make instead).

*New assembly: Blood Sword - Combat Knife + BPO = a 5d2 weapon that when used to kill an enemy, will have Vampyre's effect, restoring your health by 10% of the slain enemy's max HP

I mentioned in the Discord I was thinking of ways to use an onyx mod in a melee weapon assembly, but was having difficulty coming up with something that wasn't a boring "really strong weapon". But when thinking about how there is a melee weapon that inherently has the effect of Blademaster (the Butcher's Cleaver), I thought perhaps there should be a weapon with the effect of Vampyre too. Initially I was thinking of having it be a new unique, but then thought back to the lack of onyx weapon assemblies, and how this would be pretty fitting on a Combat Knife, while also giving Blademasters and any build side-arming melee a reason to keep a Combat Knife in their inventory after getting a Chainsaw, Cleaver, or artifact weapon. The power could maybe be buffed to 6d2 or 5d3, but the power is intentionally weak (being explicitly weaker than a Chainsword), as Vampyre is a very powerful effect (so strong it's widely considered one of the best masteries despite having some of the worst blocks among masteries), so the weapon itself needs to be weak to not be broken. The idea is this won't replace your primary stronger melee weapon, but when an enemy is near death and you're in melee range, you can whip this out (preferably by Juggler) to finish them off and get yourself HP back. Giving up the chance at an infinite durability armor is a big opportunity cost, but if I'm a non-Vampyre build utilizing melee and I haven't found a particularly good armor to use an onyx mod on, I would seriously consider making this, especially if I ended up finding more than one onyx mod.

 25 
 on: September 08, 2023, 20:40 
Started by Kornel Kisielewicz - Last post by Icy
BUG #9

While not truly a bug, I think the hindrance is significant enough to be considered one.

When you get Tracking Map, movement and general gameplay can be extremely slow when there are lots of enemies. I had one floor with a single Pain Elemental that stuttered my movement a lot and even firing was much slower. I've never experienced this in older versions.

 26 
 on: September 08, 2023, 17:28 
Started by Icy - Last post by Icy
Regarding having enemies revealed, it would have to restrict all bonus levels, all boss levels, and all dark levels, but even then I think it would impact too much. Having that level of intel in a game that is strategic and tactical is extremely powerful. On HNTR where you might get a single group of 6-8 enemies, that also lets you see where a good portion of them are as you clear them out through the floor. I don't think having a few stragglers be annoying to find is enough to justify such a fundamental change.

Regarding Reloader, I think the point of still leaning more towards Finesse even with the buffs is a good point supporting the buff. I do agree it would be good to be cautious about such a large speed boost, but reloading is generally uncommon relative to firing, except Shotguns and Rocket Launchers that benefit from Shottyman anyway. I think if you reach experience level 12, there is a decent chance you may have a weapon that doesn't need as much reloading anyway, further making it difficult to justify Reloader x3. My proposed buff of 30% is to create a justification for it, but I can understand if it seems to be too much.

Just as a comment, I think Mother-In-Law would be pretty insane with Inquisitor Set.

Regarding the medals, I agree that Medal of Pacifism can be okay and the rest are pretty meh.

 27 
 on: September 08, 2023, 03:52 
Started by Kornel Kisielewicz - Last post by Omega Tyrant
BUG #7

When playing Angel of Marksmanship on UV, I have encountered a game breaking bug, where upon killing Carmack, the game crashes. However, instead of counting the win and producing a mortem, the game creates a backup save from at the start of Hell Fortress, with me at the same state I was in when I killed Carmack.

Here's a screenshot from right before I kill Carmack:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And here's a screenshot from booting up that save, notice how my health and armor are in the same exact state at which I killed Carmack (but my Combat Pistol is reloaded because I have Gun Kata, which apparently still reloaded after killing Carmack before the crash occurs).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If I kill Carmack again upon booting this save, the game will crash again and create another backup save, leading to an unwinnable game loop. I'll also note that I did not save when first entering Hell Fortress, and that I have gotten a full win before on this beta, so it's not just getting a full win itself that's broken. After killing him a few more times and getting a crash everytime, I just let myself die, where the game crashed and tried creating a backup save yet again. Trying to boot up this save though resulted in this corrupted save notification:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here's what the actual error message is for this crash:

Code: [Select]
Timestamp   : 9/8/2023 4:47:07
Error level : FATAL EXCEPTION
Message     : Fatal exception encountered

An unhandled exception occurred at $000000010006F057 :
ELuaException : Get(items.ufskull.group) failed!
  $000000010006F057  GET,  line 1408 of ../fpcvalkyrie/src/vluasystem.pas
  $00000001000A72F4  WEAPONGROUP,  line 814 of src/dfhof.pas
  $00000001000A67F9  ADD,  line 850 of src/dfhof.pas
  $00000001000CE65A  WRITEMEMORIAL,  line 1114 of src/dfplayer.pas
  $000000010002AC28  RUN,  line 356 of src/doombase.pas
  $0000000100002230  main,  line 147 of src/doomrl.pas
  $00000001000022C6
  $00000001000166E0
  $0000000100001B70
  $00007FFFD3DD7614
  $00007FFFD5A226B1

BUG #8

After the corrupted save and the game deleting it, no mortem was saved, but I noticed some oddities with my player stats afterward.

First, it still awarded me the Marksman badges:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This is however despite the game not counting the win:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then I have achieved the conditions to rank up, but the game has not upgraded my rank, despite it showing me having all the requisites for the next rank:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then all the exotics and uniques I collected during the run were counted, but have their collected number inflated. Notice the ones here with a collected number of 9 or more, when I haven't even played that many games yet on this file:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The same bug applies to assemblies too (Nanomanufacture Ammo is counted as having been made 9 times, but this was the first time I assembled it on this file):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My medal counts have a similar inflation bug:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then my kill counts are all fucked up. It says I killed 45 Carmacks on UV, which is obviously bogus, but then the 10 Mastermind kills are inflated as well, and it also says I haven't killed the Arena Master on UV, even though I did so this run (and I'll note that I did not go through the crash to save loop 45 times before dying, I did so only about like 5 or 6 times):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well that's everything I can see for now, I'll report if I find any more oddities as a result of this game-ending crash.

 28 
 on: September 07, 2023, 20:36 
Started by Icy - Last post by Icy
While there is discussion to not have the medal Zen Master's Cross, I decided to try to go for it anyway. The medal requires that all kills are in the "other" category, as opposed to "fists", "knives", "pistols", or "shotgun". Other kills only seemingly count in-fighting, nukes, enemies dying in fluids, and other means of kills that are not directly from your weapon. One of the nice new features is that if for example, you are holding a Shotgun and a Demon dies in acid, it doesn't count as a "shotgun" kill but an "other" kill. Note that weapons of different categories such as Chainsaw, Rocket Launcher, etc will still count towards your kills in a general sense. The stipulation for this medal is that "Other" kills matches your total kills.

I figured the easiest way to earn this is Angel of Overconfidence + Angel of Berserk, so that I start near the end of the game, and can grab the Nuclear BFG as a way to kill The Spider Mastermind since there aren't any other ways to kill it. After a few tries, I got it pretty fast.

I saved the Chainsaw boost until entering Mortuary.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And lucky me, there were no Archviles on the right side.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After that, I continued on my way to the Spider Mastermind, blew up Dis, and got this strange medal!

Here's the mortem:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

---

As amusing as this was, I still think this medal should be swapped for a different idea.

 29 
 on: September 07, 2023, 20:01 
Started by Icy - Last post by Omega Tyrant
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Regarding Throw for Combat Knife and Mjollnir, I agree. I was surprised when I looked up that Eagle Eye improves the accuracy and Brute does not. I would also argue that Finesse should improve the speed, which it currently does not. Furthermore, I haven't tested or checked this, but Brute's damage and Son of a Bitch should also affect Throw if they don't already. This also would indirectly give Mjollnir a nice buff.

I'm pretty sure Brute does boost their power, and so SoB should as well, but if they don't already, then yes they, alongside Finesse, absolutely should affect throwing.

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Regarding having enemies become revealed when there are only a few left, I'm leaning towards disagreeing. It would be a pretty fundamental change to the game, would affect a lot of levels and builds, and feels very non-canonical. Angel of Red Alert would become a lot easier, Angel of Darkness with it active would be weird, and almost all bonus levels with it would make them much easier (Hell's Arena, Chained Court, Hell's Armory, Spider's Lair, etc).

With Intuition's proposed nerfing going to make AoRA a bit harder, I think this would help balanced that out. And with AoD, I assume it wouldn't apply, as the effect would work like a Tracking Map, which doesn't work in AoD. As for the special levels, I don't know how it works in Jupiter Hell for sure as I haven't played it yet, but like I suggested with the boss levels, you could have it not work in special levels.

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We've already discussed buffing Reloader from 20% to 25%, but I'm going to boldly suggest buffing this more to 30%.

I think 25% is enough of a buff, and with 30% reduction for each level, after Rel3, you would hit the minimum time of 0.1 seconds for weapons with a reload time of 1 second without even having to use an ammo box. But I don't outwardly oppose this if you really want to make Reloader desirable for any build, like Finesse already is and will remain more desirable even with this Reloader buff.

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Assembly: Mother-In-Law - Rocket Launcher (PPPFN) becomes 6d9 Rocket Launcher with instant recharge firing, blast radius 6. I think this is completely fine.

I like this assembly. Gonna be dangerous for most builds, but it would in particular give Fireangel something really good to abuse their mastery with, a build that otherwise has lackluster endgame potential, particularly in A100.

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Medal: Medal of Pacifism - Win with 10% or less kills. I'd be fine with this and swap out one of our suggestions. Not a huge fan of it overall though.

I think this is ok and was thinking of something like this. I would be ok having int instead of the suggested Vash's Cross, though I'm not particularly keen on either idea.

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Medal: Shotgunnery Cross - Win and killed everything (not necessarily 100%) with Shotguns/Fists. I'd say scrap this as it's basically just completing Angel of Shotgunnery.

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Medal: Marksmanship Cross - Win and killed everything (not necessarily 100%) with Pistols/Fists. Scrap it, see above.

Agreed, these are pretty boring new medals, not to mention that Marksman Platinum already requires 100% kills (on UV, but still too much overlap for my liking).

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Medal: Zen Master's Cross - Win and killed everything (not necessarily 100%) without ever using Fists/Knives/Shotguns/Pistols. This is weird, I'd say no.

So this would basically come down to:

*Stairdive to the Chained Court hoping nothing dies along the way until you get the Chainsaw.

*Stairdive and hope you find a Plasma Rifle before anything dies indirectly (and you can't kill a Commando for one).

*Hope you find an early Rocket Launcher and get enough ammo to actually use it as a primary offensive weapon.

*Hope you find the Cleaver (or the other melee uniques if they get the same early generation floor as proposed) very early.

Yeah this medal is just going to be annoying as hell to get, I'm firmly no as well. Also just how would you get past Phobos Base Entry without anything dying, which would immediately nullify the medal when any kill there will be inevitably attributed to fists, pistols, or shotguns?

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Medal: Purple Heart - Reach experience level 20+ and die. lolno

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Medal: Gutts' Sorrow - Die while wielding Dragonslayer. lolno

I remember hearing about Gutts' Sorrow being dummied out of 0.9.9.7 because Kornel didn't want to award bad play. Getting a medals for these things would be funny, but yeah it's not really an achievement and would be extremely annoying to actually get, as it essentially requires you to throw away a run that is near guaranteed to win and probably also had a ton of time put into it already.

Quote
Medal: Klear Cross - Nuke at least 12 levels in one game. This is basically the same as the other nuking medals, which revolves around finding Trigun. Granted, using it 12 times would require at least Ironman x2 with all Trigun nukes. I'd say no.

Oh funny that a variation of one of my initial new medal ideas is actually already in the game. If this doesn't block A100, I would be ok with having this instead of Vash's Cross, though like Medal of Pacifism, I'm not terribly into any of the ideas. If it does block A100, then absolutely not.

 30 
 on: September 07, 2023, 19:41 
Started by Kornel Kisielewicz - Last post by Icy
BUG #6

"Technicians now get starting tech mod on challenges that were (incorrectly) removing it."

This appears to be working exactly the same as version 0.9.9.7. The Technical Mod Pack is still removed for various challenges that wipe your inventory before replacing it.

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