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 41 
 on: September 08, 2023, 17:28 
Started by Icy - Last post by Icy
Regarding having enemies revealed, it would have to restrict all bonus levels, all boss levels, and all dark levels, but even then I think it would impact too much. Having that level of intel in a game that is strategic and tactical is extremely powerful. On HNTR where you might get a single group of 6-8 enemies, that also lets you see where a good portion of them are as you clear them out through the floor. I don't think having a few stragglers be annoying to find is enough to justify such a fundamental change.

Regarding Reloader, I think the point of still leaning more towards Finesse even with the buffs is a good point supporting the buff. I do agree it would be good to be cautious about such a large speed boost, but reloading is generally uncommon relative to firing, except Shotguns and Rocket Launchers that benefit from Shottyman anyway. I think if you reach experience level 12, there is a decent chance you may have a weapon that doesn't need as much reloading anyway, further making it difficult to justify Reloader x3. My proposed buff of 30% is to create a justification for it, but I can understand if it seems to be too much.

Just as a comment, I think Mother-In-Law would be pretty insane with Inquisitor Set.

Regarding the medals, I agree that Medal of Pacifism can be okay and the rest are pretty meh.

 42 
 on: September 08, 2023, 03:52 
Started by Kornel Kisielewicz - Last post by Omega Tyrant
BUG #7

When playing Angel of Marksmanship on UV, I have encountered a game breaking bug, where upon killing Carmack, the game crashes. However, instead of counting the win and producing a mortem, the game creates a backup save from at the start of Hell Fortress, with me at the same state I was in when I killed Carmack.

Here's a screenshot from right before I kill Carmack:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And here's a screenshot from booting up that save, notice how my health and armor are in the same exact state at which I killed Carmack (but my Combat Pistol is reloaded because I have Gun Kata, which apparently still reloaded after killing Carmack before the crash occurs).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If I kill Carmack again upon booting this save, the game will crash again and create another backup save, leading to an unwinnable game loop. I'll also note that I did not save when first entering Hell Fortress, and that I have gotten a full win before on this beta, so it's not just getting a full win itself that's broken. After killing him a few more times and getting a crash everytime, I just let myself die, where the game crashed and tried creating a backup save yet again. Trying to boot up this save though resulted in this corrupted save notification:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here's what the actual error message is for this crash:

Code: [Select]
Timestamp   : 9/8/2023 4:47:07
Error level : FATAL EXCEPTION
Message     : Fatal exception encountered

An unhandled exception occurred at $000000010006F057 :
ELuaException : Get(items.ufskull.group) failed!
  $000000010006F057  GET,  line 1408 of ../fpcvalkyrie/src/vluasystem.pas
  $00000001000A72F4  WEAPONGROUP,  line 814 of src/dfhof.pas
  $00000001000A67F9  ADD,  line 850 of src/dfhof.pas
  $00000001000CE65A  WRITEMEMORIAL,  line 1114 of src/dfplayer.pas
  $000000010002AC28  RUN,  line 356 of src/doombase.pas
  $0000000100002230  main,  line 147 of src/doomrl.pas
  $00000001000022C6
  $00000001000166E0
  $0000000100001B70
  $00007FFFD3DD7614
  $00007FFFD5A226B1

BUG #8

After the corrupted save and the game deleting it, no mortem was saved, but I noticed some oddities with my player stats afterward.

First, it still awarded me the Marksman badges:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This is however despite the game not counting the win:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then I have achieved the conditions to rank up, but the game has not upgraded my rank, despite it showing me having all the requisites for the next rank:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then all the exotics and uniques I collected during the run were counted, but have their collected number inflated. Notice the ones here with a collected number of 9 or more, when I haven't even played that many games yet on this file:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The same bug applies to assemblies too (Nanomanufacture Ammo is counted as having been made 9 times, but this was the first time I assembled it on this file):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My medal counts have a similar inflation bug:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then my kill counts are all fucked up. It says I killed 45 Carmacks on UV, which is obviously bogus, but then the 10 Mastermind kills are inflated as well, and it also says I haven't killed the Arena Master on UV, even though I did so this run (and I'll note that I did not go through the crash to save loop 45 times before dying, I did so only about like 5 or 6 times):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well that's everything I can see for now, I'll report if I find any more oddities as a result of this game-ending crash.

 43 
 on: September 07, 2023, 20:36 
Started by Icy - Last post by Icy
While there is discussion to not have the medal Zen Master's Cross, I decided to try to go for it anyway. The medal requires that all kills are in the "other" category, as opposed to "fists", "knives", "pistols", or "shotgun". Other kills only seemingly count in-fighting, nukes, enemies dying in fluids, and other means of kills that are not directly from your weapon. One of the nice new features is that if for example, you are holding a Shotgun and a Demon dies in acid, it doesn't count as a "shotgun" kill but an "other" kill. Note that weapons of different categories such as Chainsaw, Rocket Launcher, etc will still count towards your kills in a general sense. The stipulation for this medal is that "Other" kills matches your total kills.

I figured the easiest way to earn this is Angel of Overconfidence + Angel of Berserk, so that I start near the end of the game, and can grab the Nuclear BFG as a way to kill The Spider Mastermind since there aren't any other ways to kill it. After a few tries, I got it pretty fast.

I saved the Chainsaw boost until entering Mortuary.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And lucky me, there were no Archviles on the right side.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After that, I continued on my way to the Spider Mastermind, blew up Dis, and got this strange medal!

Here's the mortem:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

---

As amusing as this was, I still think this medal should be swapped for a different idea.

 44 
 on: September 07, 2023, 20:01 
Started by Icy - Last post by Omega Tyrant
Quote
Regarding Throw for Combat Knife and Mjollnir, I agree. I was surprised when I looked up that Eagle Eye improves the accuracy and Brute does not. I would also argue that Finesse should improve the speed, which it currently does not. Furthermore, I haven't tested or checked this, but Brute's damage and Son of a Bitch should also affect Throw if they don't already. This also would indirectly give Mjollnir a nice buff.

I'm pretty sure Brute does boost their power, and so SoB should as well, but if they don't already, then yes they, alongside Finesse, absolutely should affect throwing.

Quote
Regarding having enemies become revealed when there are only a few left, I'm leaning towards disagreeing. It would be a pretty fundamental change to the game, would affect a lot of levels and builds, and feels very non-canonical. Angel of Red Alert would become a lot easier, Angel of Darkness with it active would be weird, and almost all bonus levels with it would make them much easier (Hell's Arena, Chained Court, Hell's Armory, Spider's Lair, etc).

With Intuition's proposed nerfing going to make AoRA a bit harder, I think this would help balanced that out. And with AoD, I assume it wouldn't apply, as the effect would work like a Tracking Map, which doesn't work in AoD. As for the special levels, I don't know how it works in Jupiter Hell for sure as I haven't played it yet, but like I suggested with the boss levels, you could have it not work in special levels.

Quote
We've already discussed buffing Reloader from 20% to 25%, but I'm going to boldly suggest buffing this more to 30%.

I think 25% is enough of a buff, and with 30% reduction for each level, after Rel3, you would hit the minimum time of 0.1 seconds for weapons with a reload time of 1 second without even having to use an ammo box. But I don't outwardly oppose this if you really want to make Reloader desirable for any build, like Finesse already is and will remain more desirable even with this Reloader buff.

Quote
Assembly: Mother-In-Law - Rocket Launcher (PPPFN) becomes 6d9 Rocket Launcher with instant recharge firing, blast radius 6. I think this is completely fine.

I like this assembly. Gonna be dangerous for most builds, but it would in particular give Fireangel something really good to abuse their mastery with, a build that otherwise has lackluster endgame potential, particularly in A100.

Quote
Medal: Medal of Pacifism - Win with 10% or less kills. I'd be fine with this and swap out one of our suggestions. Not a huge fan of it overall though.

I think this is ok and was thinking of something like this. I would be ok having int instead of the suggested Vash's Cross, though I'm not particularly keen on either idea.

Quote
Medal: Shotgunnery Cross - Win and killed everything (not necessarily 100%) with Shotguns/Fists. I'd say scrap this as it's basically just completing Angel of Shotgunnery.

Quote
Medal: Marksmanship Cross - Win and killed everything (not necessarily 100%) with Pistols/Fists. Scrap it, see above.

Agreed, these are pretty boring new medals, not to mention that Marksman Platinum already requires 100% kills (on UV, but still too much overlap for my liking).

Quote
Medal: Zen Master's Cross - Win and killed everything (not necessarily 100%) without ever using Fists/Knives/Shotguns/Pistols. This is weird, I'd say no.

So this would basically come down to:

*Stairdive to the Chained Court hoping nothing dies along the way until you get the Chainsaw.

*Stairdive and hope you find a Plasma Rifle before anything dies indirectly (and you can't kill a Commando for one).

*Hope you find an early Rocket Launcher and get enough ammo to actually use it as a primary offensive weapon.

*Hope you find the Cleaver (or the other melee uniques if they get the same early generation floor as proposed) very early.

Yeah this medal is just going to be annoying as hell to get, I'm firmly no as well. Also just how would you get past Phobos Base Entry without anything dying, which would immediately nullify the medal when any kill there will be inevitably attributed to fists, pistols, or shotguns?

Quote
Medal: Purple Heart - Reach experience level 20+ and die. lolno

Quote
Medal: Gutts' Sorrow - Die while wielding Dragonslayer. lolno

I remember hearing about Gutts' Sorrow being dummied out of 0.9.9.7 because Kornel didn't want to award bad play. Getting a medals for these things would be funny, but yeah it's not really an achievement and would be extremely annoying to actually get, as it essentially requires you to throw away a run that is near guaranteed to win and probably also had a ton of time put into it already.

Quote
Medal: Klear Cross - Nuke at least 12 levels in one game. This is basically the same as the other nuking medals, which revolves around finding Trigun. Granted, using it 12 times would require at least Ironman x2 with all Trigun nukes. I'd say no.

Oh funny that a variation of one of my initial new medal ideas is actually already in the game. If this doesn't block A100, I would be ok with having this instead of Vash's Cross, though like Medal of Pacifism, I'm not terribly into any of the ideas. If it does block A100, then absolutely not.

 45 
 on: September 07, 2023, 19:41 
Started by Kornel Kisielewicz - Last post by Icy
BUG #6

"Technicians now get starting tech mod on challenges that were (incorrectly) removing it."

This appears to be working exactly the same as version 0.9.9.7. The Technical Mod Pack is still removed for various challenges that wipe your inventory before replacing it.

 46 
 on: September 07, 2023, 18:53 
Started by Icy - Last post by Icy
I noticed that there are 41 assemblies and 50 medals now, which I'm pretty sure all the dummied out ones in the source code. I'd like to discuss them here:

Assembly: Mother-In-Law - Rocket Launcher (PPPFN) becomes 6d9 Rocket Launcher with instant recharge firing, blast radius 6. I think this is completely fine.

Medal: Medal of Pacifism - Win with 10% or less kills. I'd be fine with this and swap out one of our suggestions. Not a huge fan of it overall though.

Medal: Shotgunnery Cross - Win and killed everything (not necessarily 100%) with Shotguns/Fists. I'd say scrap this as it's basically just completing Angel of Shotgunnery.

Medal: Marksmanship Cross - Win and killed everything (not necessarily 100%) with Pistols/Fists. Scrap it, see above.

Medal: Zen Master's Cross - Win and killed everything (not necessarily 100%) without ever using Fists/Knives/Shotguns/Pistols. This is weird, I'd say no.

Medal: Purple Heart - Reach experience level 20+ and die. lolno

Medal: Gutts' Sorrow - Die while wielding Dragonslayer. lolno

Medal: Klear Cross - Nuke at least 12 levels in one game. This is basically the same as the other nuking medals, which revolves around finding Trigun. Granted, using it 12 times would require at least Ironman x2 with all Trigun nukes. I'd say no.

 47 
 on: September 07, 2023, 17:25 
Started by Icy - Last post by Icy
Regarding Throw for Combat Knife and Mjollnir, I agree. I was surprised when I looked up that Eagle Eye improves the accuracy and Brute does not. I would also argue that Finesse should improve the speed, which it currently does not. Furthermore, I haven't tested or checked this, but Brute's damage and Son of a Bitch should also affect Throw if they don't already. This also would indirectly give Mjollnir a nice buff.

Regarding bridges, I agree, but it might be too difficult to implement.

Regarding having enemies become revealed when there are only a few left, I'm leaning towards disagreeing. It would be a pretty fundamental change to the game, would affect a lot of levels and builds, and feels very non-canonical. Angel of Red Alert would become a lot easier, Angel of Darkness with it active would be weird, and almost all bonus levels with it would make them much easier (Hell's Arena, Chained Court, Hell's Armory, Spider's Lair, etc).

Two suggestions I had:

For darkness levels, the special message in the postmortems has a comma after the number, which prevents the forum's mortem tags on colouring the number. For example, change "On level 15, he was stumbling in the dark!" to "On level 15 he was stumbling in the dark!".

We've already discussed buffing Reloader from 20% to 25%, but I'm going to boldly suggest buffing this more to 30%. I feel like 30% would be very fast and truly make players start considering using it over other traits, instead of only picking it when their master trait requires it. I think getting up to 90% would also draw players into getting Reloader x3, which I can't seem to find anyone ever using it. 90% reloading speed would make most reloads close to instant, which is very powerful, but does require investment into it to make use of it. I'm slightly cautious about it possibly making Shotguns overpowered in the early game if you have Reloader x2, leading to a Shotgun having 1.0 firing speed and 0.4 reloading speed, as opposed to Finesse x2 with 0.6 firing speed and 1.0 reloading speed. However, the Finesse branch has arguably better advanced traits, and ammo boxes can nullify Reloader anyway. Shottyman also makes the need for Reloader mostly irrelevant for Shotguns anyway, but Reloader x3 could be useful for Minigun, Plasma Rifle, and others.

 48 
 on: September 07, 2023, 04:02 
Started by Icy - Last post by Omega Tyrant
Those all seem pretty nobrainer. A few more things I want to suggest that I have forgotten about until now.

Have Brute increase the accuracy of throwing

Brute not affecting the accuracy of throwing always been a weird unintuitive limitation, and needlessly makes early AoB more annoyingly luck-based than it already is, when you have to rely on throwing knives to limit damage from tough enemies but have a coin flip chance at best to actually hit things with them. Then because of how awfully inaccurate throwing is, it then just gets ignored after you get the Chainsaw because it's not worth bothering with it, other than to blow up barrels. Melee builds will also never want to invest in Eagle Eye, and two of the melee masters block Eagle Eye even if they wanted to, including Malicious Blades, the build that is supposed to specialize in knives. It's not like this change would suddenly make early AoB easy either, as throwing still leaves you empty handed (unless you got the Mjollnir), and without Juggler, it's gonna take time to switch to another weapon, so you can often only safely throw one knife from long distance per enemy, if you got a chance to do so at all (Pinkies close that gap really fast).

Fix bridges being blocked off on floors with rivers

Each floor with a river is supposed to have a bridge over the river to ensure players don't get put in a position where they're forced to walk through acid and lava to reach the rest of the floor. However, these bridges can spawn in a way where they lead to a blocked off room, such as in this screenshot:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Or the bridge just gets walled off completely, such as in this screenshot:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If you don't have some means of fluid immunity, and don't have some means to blow up walls or got a sturdy walls event, then you're just in a screwed position, especially so if it's early in the game where you probably won't have the medkits to burn tanking damage running across acid/lava into potentially a waiting enemy ambush. This seems like a no-brainer fix to me, but I could see it being possibly too complicated to fix level generation to have more reliable bridges.

When there are only three or less enemies left on a floor, reveal their locations

A feature from Jupiter Hell that Svankensen suggested in the Discord server a while ago. I think it would be nice to have in DoomRL too, especially when playing builds without Intuition, where hunting down the last few enemies can get tedious (as anyone trying to get 100% kills in A100 without Intuition can attest to). It should have the limitation though that it doesn't apply in the boss levels, as part of the intended challenge with the Cyberdemon and Mastermind is not knowing where they'll be. Maybe it's too major of a new thing to add, and could be argued that it makes the Quartermaster and other AoRA-related badges easier by too much (though Intuition getting nerfed is going to make them harder too). Another possible complication is how it would work with reviving enemies or any other spontaneously spawning enemies (would it be "turned off" if more enemies spawn after three were left, would it permanently "stay on" once you get to the final three no matter how many more enemies spawn in, or would it only continue to show the original final three enemies but none of the revived/spawned enemies?) I would like to see some discussion on this, if it's even possible to add in the first place.

 49 
 on: September 06, 2023, 19:41 
Started by Icy - Last post by Icy
Some more suggestions after playing a more thorough game of the new beta version.

For the dodging bonus value on the stats screen, I think it should include the bonus value when running.

For levers that destroy walls, only make a singular explosion sounds, instead of seemingly dozens.

If Containment Area is destroyed by a nuke, disable the trap.

If Abyssal Plains is destroyed by a nuke, disable the wall trap. I'd say still let the Agony Elemental spawn.

 50 
 on: September 06, 2023, 19:35 
Started by Icy - Last post by Icy
Tonight, I decided to do a more thorough game of the new version and still having a lot of limitations on what modes I can play, I went for a pure Angel of Light Travel. I was considering going for a conqueror, but I quickly remembered that the inventory space doesn't quite allow for it. Despite that, I got pretty close anyway.

Like Omega Tyrant reported, I had the same freeze regarding killing streaks, where you can clearly see that I took damage but didn't lose my kill streak. I'm thinking that it's just the current value that's bugged.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Some Schematics. Like I suggested, I'm not a fan of these since it doesn't let games be truly independent. Newer players still collecting all the assemblies definitely could use the extra Mod Pack more than I would too.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hellrunner + Tactical Armor appear to be working correctly here for the dodging bonus. I would like to see it change while running too though.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I encountered a lever that blows up walls and was expecting a single explosion sound like Omega Tyrant described. It seems like each wall tile individually made the sound as I felt like I was about to go deaf.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I found a nuke and blew up Containment Area, but then also triggered the trap. I mentioned this in the suggestions thread, but overlooked nuking the level should disable the trap.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I wasn't intending to enter Abyssal Plains, but found both Trigun and Invulnerability on the floor before lol.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Similar to Containment Area, this map is a little buggy when you blow it up first.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I encountered a darkness level! Everything seemed to work as intended with stair sense not working, no respawns, and the darkness was maintained. Very cool!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I also found Mjollnir. Having tossed Chainsaw earlier, this opened up yet another possibility for conquering a level. However, finding this seemed to be more of a curse as I later found.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This was a goofy weapon to be using against the Cyberdemon, but I made it work.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Having not used Mjollnir before, I noticed that alternate firing visually showed its range. Is this new to the version or is this normal?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My kill streak increased to 108 it seems.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Example of Demons still getting stuck.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So, I considered getting Brute to help kill the Angel of Death, but opted to go for Ironman after all the Angel Arm usage. Luckily, I learned reading the wiki that Brute wouldn't help with accuracy anyway when using Throw. I also learned that its accuracy was far less than 50% and I circled the level a pile of times trying to kill the Angel of Death with cheese. A lot of the hits I ended up getting were standard melee hits. Mjollnir sucks.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I got a message saying "You don't have a Longinus Spear!", which I don't recall seeing before. Is this normal? Is this new? I'm guessing it might be for first time pickups of exotics and uniques?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

With no way to clear the Vaults without Invulnerability, I opted to go for 100% kills and skip conqueror.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

With low maximum HP, I was definitely not checking what spawned over here.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Bad mistake having a barrel blow up on me and get dumped into a pool of lava, but I was able to survive. I had range issues with Nano-Shrapnel Double Shotgun and remembered why I never make the assembly in that base.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Archviles dying to fluids is a huge nerf, but I think a very good balance change. I made good use of it here.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The rest of the game wasn't particularly interesting. I cleared out the last few floors, then blew up the Spider Mastermind using another Angel Arm. Got a good pile of badges and medals for this game.

---

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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