Chaosforge Forum
DoomRL => Discussion => Topic started by: Reef Blastbody on August 15, 2012, 11:04
-
I was kind of curious to see what everyone felt was considered "optimized" for DoomRL. I don't mean in general; I'd like to look at things one by one specifically.
For an example, the pistol. If you were going to use the pistol and only the pistol and no other weapon (not even other types of pistols), what would be the "best" mods to put on your pistol? I'll explain a little more...
AlterAsc raised an interesting point when he was explaining his choice of mods/traits when using rapid-fire weapons, and it basically boiled down to the notion that an optimized version of any particular weapon would be the version that provides you the most DPS (there are possibly only two exceptions to that rule as far as I could see, rocket jumping and wall breaking), since most of the time in DoomRL, you're aiming to kill something and to kill it as quickly as possible.
It's true that there are many different playstyles and builds in DoomRL, but I think it should be possible to hash out some rough "optimized builds" for specific weapons based with maximizing DPS. I've recently gotten hooked on the Wiki and am in the middle of doing a huge overhaul to the weapons sections, but I lack the technical knowledge to do it successfully on my own. I've already templated all the weapons, all the weapon families, set up game data/strategy tabs, updated the front page, and have organized strategy sections for the weapons based on family and individual weapon. Most of those however, are empty. There were a few existing articles that I moved/incorporated. This is where everyone else comes in!
As AlterAsc also pointed out, making the DPS too high (I believe 12 for most ranged) will cause knock back, which at the moment is triggered before damage, meaning that multiple shots will push the enemy back and cause them to avoid the damage from subsequent rounds. I assume this is not intentional and will be amended in a later version, so assuming this is the case, there's two things I'd be looking at doing.
1) Optimization of the Pistol for 0996
2) Theoretical optimization of the Pistol.
I only want to focus on the Pistol right now because the boards have been a little quiet lately and I'd like to do things one at a time if I can. I intend to either spark enough interest in this idea that people will help put stuff on the wiki, or if they're not interested in editing the wiki themselves (as I know some people don't want to bother learning wiki syntax or are busy with other projects), at least post your knowledge here and I'll gladly crib what I can and credit the poster in the talk remarks for that section.
Again, I'd like to make it very clear that I know and understand part of the fun to DoomRL is playing how you want, and that there are tons of options and builds available. By no way shape or form am I claiming that using an 'optimized' build aiming to do the most DPS is 'the best', or 'the right way' -- I'm not trying to start or enforce that kind of thinking. What I am trying to do is present it at least as an option and to make use the wiki. The strategy section is woefully barren and I'd like to do whatever I can to help that.
So, if you actually read all of that, thank you, and secondly, heeelp meee dooo thiiiis.
That being said, I open the floor for general chicanery, and hopefully some discussion on specifically the Pistol. Once that's done, I'll move on to the next, and the next, and the next...
-
As AlterAsc also pointed out, making the DPS too high (I believe 12 for most ranged) will cause knock back, which at the moment is triggered before damage, meaning that multiple shots will push the enemy back and cause them to avoid the damage from subsequent rounds. I assume this is not intentional and will be amended in a later version, so assuming this is the case, there's two things I'd be looking at doing.
DPS usually means damage per second, and i think you meant damage per shot.
The problem is not the fact that damage is applied after knockback(though i heard of this, but iirc this was fixed) but the fact that every shot is calculated separately and applies knockback separately too.This issue is known by devs afaik, and will be fixed some day.
My opinion on pistol mods:
First of all as with SoG5 your firetime is 0.1s anyway, applying T-mods is useless if you plan on reaching SoG5.If you don't, then T1 can reduce firetime from 1.0 to 0.8 (15% rounded down).More than that is unneccesary and even T1 is questionable.
Then you generally want P-mods, the more, the better.
After that B-mods is what you want, as pistols have small clips.
Agility mods don't offer much.
So So P3B2 is probably the best setup for almost any build.
About MBD - can't say much, but as you can't take EE, A1 or A2 may benefit a bit.DPS is not a problem, as you have SoG,SoB,DG and TH, so B-mods may be the best solution, so you don't have to reload constantly. A1B3P1 is what i would probably go with.
Assemblies that can be applied to pistols:
Speedloader - better then nothing.
High power - if you're okay with clip of 4, you might go with it.Useful in the hands of someone without DG(aiming for MSs) and using ammochain in offhand.
Energy pistol - allows you to cut through walls if you're persistent.Theoretically (i have to try it someday) this is the way to pass The Wall on AoMr (starting Techincian with 2T and finding lucky P).Helps against Revs.And lost souls.But chews cells.
Storm bolter - dunno/
Demolition ammo - possible choice if you somehow have WK2 and firestorm mod.
-
Awesome, this is what I was hoping for. So to summarize your reasoning :
An ideal mod set up for the pistol would be P3B2, on the grounds that it is already accurate enough that it gains no relatively important benefit from A modding (is that assuming they have EE2 or even if they didn't, it would still likely be the best choice?), and that a build with the pistol in mind would likely utilize SoG5 to cut firing time down to 0.1s. Even if you weren't going to use SoG5, as you said, the benefit of T modding it at that point isn't significant enough to outweigh the benefits of P modding or B modding.
Would the same apply to Dualgunner, that you would want both pistols to be P3B2?
And as for MBD, you said A1B3P1. I assume you went B3P1 because the amount of extra shots you get to fire with MBD would provide more damage over-all due to the number of bullets, instead of using something like A1P3B1?
As for the assemblies :
You said speedloader was better than nothing, but it isn't better than just straight P3B2 I imagine?
Same question, but for High Power Pistol (P)?
Sorry for the endless questions, I want to try to refine this as much as possible and understand it too.
-
Speedloader and high power are basic assemblies and don't requier anything except basic mods.
Only Techician can pick WK easily, other classes have to take Fin2 and on lower difficulties you may reach WK(2) really late.So P3B2 is good, but walking with a basic pistol until level 22(just example) is boring(can't choose the right word).Until then speedloader or highpower can be your main weapon.
A-modding: pistols have +4 accuracy. Back in time when i didn't reach N! yet, i won near 100% UV masterless game without taking EE at all and i didn't think i was not accurate.Now i curse everything and everyone if i don't have EE1, and still curse a bit without EE2.Conclusion: +4 is not that bad, but i want more.
The usual reason that you don't need to apply A-mods is the fact that you can just take EE. The ones who can't - MBD, MMB with pistol backup, MVm can theoretically use pistols too(but i never seen it).So for them A-mods can be useful.
DG doesn't change much.Actually pistols have the same problem with knockback as rapid-fire weapons, but with 2 shots it isn't much of a problem.But MBD users can suffer as they unload a lot and they have SoG and SoB.
For MBD i said A1B3P1, because i think it's more important to reload less, and on MBD you have to reload a lot.
But it may not be the best setup for combat pistol as it has clip of 15 already and a bit more accurate(+5), so A1P2B2 or maybe P3B2 may work better.
-
In the end, the best thing you can do is find the Trigun or GCB =)
-
No, not even close to the best thing.
Combat pistol (3d6) [26/26] (P3B2) is soooooo much cooler than Trigun and GCB in single.
-
explanation
The more I see, the more I have a sneaking suspicion that Technician is the best class for pistols. But that is a topic for another time, after we get through Weapons and end up in Classes. I know they kind of overlap, but for now, the main focus is the weapon itself.
With what feedback you've given me so far, I think I can pretty much wrap up the Pistol entry for the wiki. Plus, you've provided me ample segway into the Combat Pistol, which was my next topic.
So, Combat Pistol. Higher clip size, higher base accuracy, higher damage (I think. The d3 may be where things get weird? On average it should be higher but it may interact with traits/mods in an undesirable fashion that I don't know about), but slower reload time. Is there something I'm missing out on as to why people don't use this over the regular Pistol (other than possibly the wait period to get it?) You've already touched on it a little bit, but it seems like you were only advising it for MBD and that the pistol itself is better for DG. I will likely mercilessly and incessantly ask you questions every single day if just for your opinion alone, so if you ever get burnt out by it, tell me to knock it off and I will attempt to prey upon others hahahaha.
In the end, the best thing you can do is find the Trigun or GCB =)
Oh, we'll get to those. Hahaha. I'm being OCD enough that I'm doing this *per weapon*. I still need to laboriously pour over Energy Pistol, Speedloader, etc, etc. I am literally going to treat this like "what if you only found this weapon *weapon of current discussion* and no other weapons, what would be the best possible choice(s) you could make with it to be effective?"
And then at the very end, once each weapon is done, then I do the whole "Okay, now you're playing DoomRL and you have some choices here. What is the smartest choice to make?", which like you said, would be to use what you can get to start, but ideally aim to snagging yourself a Trigun/GCB/AFJ/whatever is the "best".
No, not even close to the best thing.
Combat pistol (3d6) [26/26] (P3B2) is soooooo much cooler than Trigun and GCB in single.
Oho. This is what I mean. I think access to WK2 and 5 mods really means that vanilla weapons have the possibility to trash the unmoddable ones unless they are completely OP.
Mind you, Trigun having the "lol nuke time" option is a totally different ballgame, but we'll get there. We'll get there.
-
why people don't use this over the regular Pistol
Because there's no guaranteed way to get it.Only random drop.And AoOC.
Yes, damage is higher. 3d3 is always better than 2d4(3-9, avg of 6, 2-8, avg of 5).And due to difference in number of dices, each P-mod increases the gap.
And even though it reloads slower(1.8 vs 1.2) clip if 15 is a godsend.
-
I think I finally am starting to get it.
Regular combat pistol, 3d3, 15 in the clip.
A high power combat pistol is 3d3+2, clip cut down to 9 or 10 (not sure if you round up or down with assemblies), so average 8 damage.
Or, even a single P mod on the combat pistol changes it to 3d4, keeps the clip size of 15, and the average damage is 7.5. With two P mods, 3d5, average damage of 9. Or, the same mods that you'd need to make a high power version, P and B, but not assembling, gives you 3d4, 7.5 dmg, and 19.5/20 (?) shots.
Basically, the high power assembly is bad. For everything! I can't think of a single sitatution where it would be preferable to use the high power assembly rather than just straight up putting the P and the B mod on the gun and NOT assembling it.
-
Basically, the high power assembly is bad. For everything! I can't think of a single sitatution where it would be preferable to use the high power assembly rather than just straight up putting the P and the B mod on the gun and NOT assembling it.
How about a build without WK?
-
Hmm. Fair enough.
Well, assuming you're not going for WK at all, you could still build the hp combat pistol, like you said, due to it being a base assembly.
So you could have either a (P) combat pistol at 7.5 dmg and 15 shots, or a high power combat pistol at 8 dmg and 10 shots. I don't know if I'd still be willing to do that.
Basically P mod for +1.5 points of damage or HP assembly for +2 points and less ammo. It's definitely more of a possible choice without WK, although I think I'd rather have the extra shots.
With WK, it's jank.
-
10 shots is more than enough for a dedicated pistol build, IMO. Basic pistols only get 6 shots and they are still deadly when your pistol build comes together.
-
10 shots is more than enough for a dedicated pistol build, IMO. Basic pistols only get 6 shots and they are still deadly when your pistol build comes together.
That is a very good point.
Non-WK pistol builds that are lucky enough to come across a combat pistol may want to have a high power combat pistol then. Possibly.
Bullet Dance lets you fire extra bullets, so you may want extra bullets, but as you said, even an HP'd combat pistol has more boolets than regular pistol. I don't think an HP'd regular pistol itself would be a good idea at all though, with only 4 shots.
Gun Kata lets you fire faster if you dodged, and you get a free reload when you kill what you aimed for. HP'd pistols in general may work with this. Assuming you're getting the free reload off aimed shot, and you can kill them before you run out, you would never need to reload.
Sharpshooter (although the likelihood of making a Technician who does not take WK at all is slim, it is still a possibility) maxes the pistol damage at all times. In this instance, I don't know if the 2 points of damage is going to be worth the loss of ammo and a P and a B mod.
Why?
With Sharpshooter, your damage is essentially going to always be 8 (regular pistol/blaster), or 9 (combat pistol) on unmodded guns, or 10 on an hp pistol/blaster and 11 on an hp combat pistol.
OR... Just put a single P mod on each of those guns. (P) pistol/blaster now does 10, and (P) combat pistol will always do 12.
You'll get either the same damage or more from using a single P mod rather than building hp guns with a Sharpshooter build.
So HP'ing a gun is potentially only going to be worth it for Marine or Scouts.
-
Frankly I think Bullet Dance is quite useless. It takes too long to setup and you're IMO better off with a masterless build.
I think I've seen HP pistols used with Gun Kata. With sharpshooter, you will definitely want to get WK2, so basic pistol mods are not what you're looking for.
-
A high power combat pistol is 3d3+2
NOOOOOOOOO.That's now how mods(or even assemblies) work.P-mods never add anything directly, they change either size of dices, or number of dices.
So it is 3d(3+2) = 3d5. Avg of 9.
Basically high power assemblies benefit is the same as from P2, but it also reduces your clip.
There is a point of assembling high power combat pistol. As i already said you don't need to WK for it, so non-Tech can be quite happy with it and focus their traits on something more useful than taking Fin2.
MGK with HP pistol is a gamble.8 bullets may not be enough to kill someone if something go wrong.
-
NOOOOOOOOO
Ah, I wasn't sure! The wiki is wrong then and I need to fix it.
The wiki states the adjustment from high powered as "Original + 2", which I took to be for example, 3d3, which I took to be (3d3)+2, as opposed to 3d(3+2), ie 3d5.
I'll adjust it for clarification to prevent these kind of gaffs.
Thanks.
-
It meant either original (number of dice) or (size of die) (depending what is higher) and not original damage.
-
non-Tech can be quite happy with it and focus their traits on something more useful than taking Fin2.
MGK with HP pistol is a gamble.8 bullets may not be enough to kill someone if something go wrong.
So basically...
Tech/MSs : No point to using an HP pistol
Scout/MGK : Gamble when using HP pistol
Marine/MBD : May enjoy an HP pistol
-
Tech may enjoy HP pistol until they get WK.Meaning until lvl8 probably.And if they're not afraid to lose one P-mod.
Scout - kinda.
MBD - strange conclusion.With clip of 4 and MBD you have to reload your pistols after just 2 shots.Not enojyable at all.
-
Tech may enjoy HP pistol until they get WK.Meaning until lvl8 probably.And if they're not afraid to lose one P-mod.
Scout - kinda.
MBD - strange conclusion.With clip of 4 and MBD you have to reload your pistols after just 2 shots.Not enojyable at all.
Okay, so HP pistols only useful (kinda) to Scout, and possibly Techs that have extra mods/unconcerned with optimizing assemblies post WK2, and Marines that want to use pistols but not MBD... haha.
When you put it that way, it still sounds like "not a very good idea for anyone" at all, but I suppose there are extremely narrow applications.
-
and Marines that want to use pistols but not MBD... haha.
Masterless marine pistol build is actually pretty awesome. I'd even say better than MBD.
-
If going masterless pistols i would choose either Scout for easy Int and MCe, or Technician for easy access to WK.
Badass and 10 hp and increased powerup duration don't seem the best choice for pistol build.
Though i did masterless marine too, but that was because i didn't bother thinking.
-
Okay. Let's see if I can get all up to speed on this thread to date.
For people looking to do a pistols run :
If you are a Technician with WK2, the best thing you can use is likely going to be P3B2 pistols, or if available, P3B2 combat pistols.
If you are a Marine and you're going for MBD, with WK2, the best you can use is likely going to be A1B3P1 pistols or P3B2 combat pistols. If you do not have WK2, the best you can use is likely what, (A) Pistols, or if available, (P) Combat Pistols? If Masterless and no WK2, an HP Combat Pistol?
If you are a Scout and you're going for WK2, P3B2 pistols or P3B2 combat pistols. If you are a Scout and no WK2, (P) Pistols and (P) Combat Pistols?
Trying to condense it to be wiki'able as a little blurb and then I can tack on all of the "here's why" beneath it.
-
Alright! We're moving on from the Pistol and the Combat Pistol; I'm satisfied with what we have for now and if anyone wants to change/add what I'll be putting in the wiki when I get home, they're more than welcome to do so.
Next on the list...
The Blaster
and
The Speedloader Pistol.
The Blaster does the same damage as a Pistol, although it is Plasma based. It only has +3 accuracy instead of +4 like a Pistol. They both use Aimed Shot. Where the start to differ is that the Blaster has a larger capacity of 10, shoots a little faster and reloads a little faster. However, the Blaster regenerates its own ammo.
Being as similar as it is, is there any reason to put different mods aside from P3B2 on the Blaster in an ideal set-up?
As for the Speedloader Pistol...
The Speedloader Pistol is an assembly, meaning that if you don't have WK2 when you build it, you're not going to be modding it anyway.
This means you basically get a regular pistol (same accuracy, damage, clip size, firing time, ammo, etc), with the major difference being that the reload time is cut to 0.6s. This certainly beats out a regular pistol, and I believe the advantage you get from the reload speed is probably greater for a non-WK build than any single mod you could put on a Pistol. If you have WK2, then you're likely better off putting 5 mods on a Pistol than making a (?) modded Speedloader.
Weigh in and tell me why I'm wrong, or that it really is that cut and dry.
-
Being as similar as it is, is there any reason to put different mods aside from P3B2 on the Blaster in an ideal set-up?
I rarely find blasters, even when I do I'm not playing pistols, but looking at the fact that they deal plasma damage, which is only reduced by half of the monster's armor value, and the fact that you can't manually reload it, you might be happier with 3 or even 4 bulk mods rather than P mods.
Edit: Can you manually reload it? Most recharging weapons can't be reloaded manually, but the Blaster's wiki page doesn't mention that it can't, and gives a reload time. I think the wiki page is either wrong or needs to be updated with the fact that it's the only recharging weapon that can be manually reloaded.
-
I don't think you can put 4 bulk mods on anything; I was under the impression that even with WK2, the limit to a "type" of any given mod to be applied to a weapon was 3 of a kind.
I'm at work right now so I'd have to test when I get home.
With the damage in mind though, as you said, B3P2 may be a better choice, just because you can fire way more before running around and waiting for it to recharge.
I don't think it can be manually reloaded, and that the reload time listed is just the 1 round per second kind of deal that the other recharging weapons have, listed incorrectly under Reload Speed. However, it's the same class as a combat pistol, which means you could make it into an Energy Blaster (which is stupid but theoretically possible), at which point I have no idea if it would become reloadable or if it would keep it's original auto-reload properties.
I *never* find Blasters either, so I can't test this at the moment. If anyone has a scummed save with a Blaster and is willing to try, please fill us in.
-
You are correct that you cannot put more than 3 mods of the same type on one weapon (and more than one on armour/melee weapon).
Blaster, as with all recharging weapons, cannot be reloaded manually...
And I believe there is a mod with all the weapons and items for testing purposes somewhere, try searching the modding forum.
-
And I believe there is a mod with all the weapons and items for testing purposes somewhere, try searching the modding forum.
Aha. I finally found it. Thanks for the head's up!
http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5108.0;attach=896
That is apparently it right there; I'll have to try it when I get home. I'm not sure how it works yet but I'm definitely going to get a lot of use out of this.
-
You can't go with 4 mods of the same type.
Blaster can't be reloaded.
Personally i don't see the point of B3 instead of B2 on blaster.
-
Aha. I finally found it. Thanks for the head's up!
http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5108.0;attach=896
That is apparently it right there; I'll have to try it when I get home. I'm not sure how it works yet but I'm definitely going to get a lot of use out of this.
Just put it in your modules directory, start the game up and go to "Custom Game" it'll be in there. Pretty fun to get decked out in all the best gear, bump up to level 26 and spawn a bunch of high level critters. With Butchers Cleaver in one hand, Dragonslayer in the other, Berserker armor and A-modded anti-grav phaseshift boots, Full zerk, MMB, Brute5, Iro5, HR3, DM, Fin3; you're unstoppable.
-
Okay. Just been playing around with it a little bit and I can confirm that the Blaster retains its self-rejuvenating ammo regardless what you make it into. You cannot manually reload it under any circumstances.
Interestingly enough, when you go to your equipment screen and look at the blaster, it does claim to have a reload time of 1.0s, even though you can't reload it. So the wiki isn't wrong per se, just listing what the in game stats are. It's misleading though.
And I can definitely confirm what Alter mentioned earlier in this thread (and another one about modding) regarding damage and knockback. I did a Sharpshooter build because I wanted to see what a (P) Storm Bolter Combat Pistol (1d10)x2 would be like compared to a P3B2 Combat Pistol (3d5). With sharpshooter, the modded bolter should have been 20 damage each time, and the modded combat pistol would have been 15 damage each time.
The bolter would hit, cause severe knockback, and ultimately it took 6 shots to kill an arch-vile.
The modded combat pistol would hit and cause a little knockback, but it only took 4 shots to kill the arch-vile.
No contest. The knockback on the bolter was actually undesirable because it would push him out of my vision and let him start moving around and attacking me. The modded combat pistol would kill him before he had a chance to do anything.
This is definitely going to help with optimizing guides!
-
I'm not sure but some of the problems with this kind of knockback are scheduled to be fixed
Did you test the effectiveness of these pistols in a non-sharpshooter build? I tend to make storm bolter simply because it looks cool as hell (http://media.desura.com/images/groups/1/3/2055/Storm_Bolter_by_Orgun246.jpg).
Not that it shows in the game, but still...
-
Not yet, Klear! I have a huge list of things to test, and Builds will be later. I was just curious about weapons/weapon damage.
I did make a storm bolter blaster though and it simply became a Storm Blaster, which I thought was pretty sweet.
-
I'm just pointing out that without sharpshooter, knockback becomes less of an issue. I don't mean to rush you, you're doing a great thing in testing all these things =)
-
Oh, no worries. I'll have everything ready just in time to have to change it all when DoomRL updates versions, hahaha.
...without sharpshooter, knockback becomes less of an issue.
What do you mean? Like if the storm bolter damage wasn't maxed by Sharpshooter, it wouldn't be causing as much knockback? That's likely true, I just assumed Ss was the best place to try a storm bolter because you only need one maxed gun. It may be viable in a dualgunner build but you're gonna need a lot of mods to get two storm bolters! (Technically you don't need two but the OCD would kill me!)
I'll definitely add it on the list.
Speedloader pistol is currently next though. Also energy pistol testing. I rarely see people making energy pistols in their mortems; whether this is because power cells aren't as readily available, or if the ignoring half armor offered by energy shots simply isn't enough to outweigh the effects of getting 5 mods instead of an assembly + 1 mod.
-
With sharpshooter you are guaranteed to always inflict max damage, which means there is consistently the same amount of knockback (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Knockback)(or lack therof). Without it, the damage inflicted is random, so at some point you'll be causing knockback only sometimes, say with one shot out of ten. That means that knockback ruining your shots is less of an issue and you can get away with more P mods and SoG levels without suffering lowered DPS.
When playing a non-sharpshooter build, I usually mod one pistol to become a bolter and the other one to get the energy pistol (or whatever it's called). What I end up with is decided by which mods I find first. It's probably not the most efficient way to play, but I like it.
Also, in the end I tend to finish these games with at least one unique pistol - I think rather than luck, it is because finding a unique pistol makes it more likely to finish the game.
-
Usually enemies have 0-2 armor, so benefit from changing to plasma is 0-1 dmg.So generally P2 pistol would be the same in terms of damage to energy pistol.And you have spare T-mod and can mod your pistol further.
There're revs and lost souls though.
-
There're revs and lost souls though.
This. Also I like to be able to utilize more ammo types for some reason.
-
This. Also I like to be able to utilize more ammo types for some reason.
I do not. Hahaha. That's one of my biggest problems mid to end game; an inventory full of shotgun shells, 10 mm ammo, power cells, and rockets. They take up too much room and I start weighing what needs to be dropped or not when I start finding mods, medkits, etc.
It's my own fault for being a pack rat.
-
It's been a while since i played a dualgunner but... Let's say you got a *weak* pistol and a stronger one, for whatever reason (unfinished modding commonly).
Is it better having the strong one in prep slot or the weak one, or does it not matter for knockback issues. Worth testing imo.
-
It's been a while since i played a dualgunner but... Let's say you got a *weak* pistol and a stronger one, for whatever reason (unfinished modding commonly).
Is it better having the strong one in prep slot or the weak one, or does it not matter for knockback issues. Worth testing imo.
I always keep the one with smaller clip as my primary, but what you say could be useful in some instances.
-
It's been a while since i played a dualgunner but... Let's say you got a *weak* pistol and a stronger one, for whatever reason (unfinished modding commonly).
Is it better having the strong one in prep slot or the weak one, or does it not matter for knockback issues. Worth testing imo.
As far as i know there is no differences and it doesn't have influence on knockback.
add: immediately after posting I was pointed to the fact that there is a difference: primary pistol shoots first. So it does have influence on knockback. Didn't think about that before posting.
-
I'll do Weak/Strong pistol testing in main and off hands next before I move on!
-
Storm bolter - dunno/
Storm Bolter is amazing if you're going for MSs. Even with a regular pistol as base, you'll be one-shotting most monsters and if you manage to apply it to a combat pistol or blaster, it just melts everything. If you're really fond of overkill, wait with completing the assembly until you have WK2 and then apply an additional power mod.
As for the knockback issue, just don't stand in a position where the knockback could push the enemy out of your line of fire. Ideally, you would want them in front of a wall or in a straight line ahead of you.
-
As for the knockback issue, just don't stand in a position where the knockback could push the enemy out of your line of fire. Ideally, you would want them in front of a wall or in a straight line ahead of you.
Well, you will often want to kill enemies at the edge of your vision. Knockback can push them out of sight, which means the next shot has a 50% chance of missing them completely, in addition to normal hit chance (though that should be pretty good with EE3).