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31
Discussion / Re: Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« on: August 15, 2012, 14:51 »
Awesome, this is what I was hoping for. So to summarize your reasoning :
An ideal mod set up for the pistol would be P3B2, on the grounds that it is already accurate enough that it gains no relatively important benefit from A modding (is that assuming they have EE2 or even if they didn't, it would still likely be the best choice?), and that a build with the pistol in mind would likely utilize SoG5 to cut firing time down to 0.1s. Even if you weren't going to use SoG5, as you said, the benefit of T modding it at that point isn't significant enough to outweigh the benefits of P modding or B modding.
Would the same apply to Dualgunner, that you would want both pistols to be P3B2?
And as for MBD, you said A1B3P1. I assume you went B3P1 because the amount of extra shots you get to fire with MBD would provide more damage over-all due to the number of bullets, instead of using something like A1P3B1?
As for the assemblies :
You said speedloader was better than nothing, but it isn't better than just straight P3B2 I imagine?
Same question, but for High Power Pistol (P)?
Sorry for the endless questions, I want to try to refine this as much as possible and understand it too.
An ideal mod set up for the pistol would be P3B2, on the grounds that it is already accurate enough that it gains no relatively important benefit from A modding (is that assuming they have EE2 or even if they didn't, it would still likely be the best choice?), and that a build with the pistol in mind would likely utilize SoG5 to cut firing time down to 0.1s. Even if you weren't going to use SoG5, as you said, the benefit of T modding it at that point isn't significant enough to outweigh the benefits of P modding or B modding.
Would the same apply to Dualgunner, that you would want both pistols to be P3B2?
And as for MBD, you said A1B3P1. I assume you went B3P1 because the amount of extra shots you get to fire with MBD would provide more damage over-all due to the number of bullets, instead of using something like A1P3B1?
As for the assemblies :
You said speedloader was better than nothing, but it isn't better than just straight P3B2 I imagine?
Same question, but for High Power Pistol (P)?
Sorry for the endless questions, I want to try to refine this as much as possible and understand it too.
32
Nightmare! / Re: [N!|AoB|75%|8|YASD] This is really, really hard
« on: August 15, 2012, 14:06 »Not worthless, just less useful.
And with HR3 your chance of dodging commander volley is at least 78%, arachnotron's volley 69%.If you turn on running then it's 95%(max), and 89%.
No need for tactical set if you have better options.
Are those figures with or without the Tac Boot and Armor bonuses?
Where do you get all of your awesome math/figures? I intend to crib this for the HR strategy wiki page as a reason why you should take HR3 in the Pros/Cons, and credit you if you don't mind.
This is the kind of stuff I need. But for everything.
33
Discussion / Optimization, the Wiki, and more!
« on: August 15, 2012, 11:04 »
I was kind of curious to see what everyone felt was considered "optimized" for DoomRL. I don't mean in general; I'd like to look at things one by one specifically.
For an example, the pistol. If you were going to use the pistol and only the pistol and no other weapon (not even other types of pistols), what would be the "best" mods to put on your pistol? I'll explain a little more...
AlterAsc raised an interesting point when he was explaining his choice of mods/traits when using rapid-fire weapons, and it basically boiled down to the notion that an optimized version of any particular weapon would be the version that provides you the most DPS (there are possibly only two exceptions to that rule as far as I could see, rocket jumping and wall breaking), since most of the time in DoomRL, you're aiming to kill something and to kill it as quickly as possible.
It's true that there are many different playstyles and builds in DoomRL, but I think it should be possible to hash out some rough "optimized builds" for specific weapons based with maximizing DPS. I've recently gotten hooked on the Wiki and am in the middle of doing a huge overhaul to the weapons sections, but I lack the technical knowledge to do it successfully on my own. I've already templated all the weapons, all the weapon families, set up game data/strategy tabs, updated the front page, and have organized strategy sections for the weapons based on family and individual weapon. Most of those however, are empty. There were a few existing articles that I moved/incorporated. This is where everyone else comes in!
As AlterAsc also pointed out, making the DPS too high (I believe 12 for most ranged) will cause knock back, which at the moment is triggered before damage, meaning that multiple shots will push the enemy back and cause them to avoid the damage from subsequent rounds. I assume this is not intentional and will be amended in a later version, so assuming this is the case, there's two things I'd be looking at doing.
1) Optimization of the Pistol for 0996
2) Theoretical optimization of the Pistol.
I only want to focus on the Pistol right now because the boards have been a little quiet lately and I'd like to do things one at a time if I can. I intend to either spark enough interest in this idea that people will help put stuff on the wiki, or if they're not interested in editing the wiki themselves (as I know some people don't want to bother learning wiki syntax or are busy with other projects), at least post your knowledge here and I'll gladly crib what I can and credit the poster in the talk remarks for that section.
Again, I'd like to make it very clear that I know and understand part of the fun to DoomRL is playing how you want, and that there are tons of options and builds available. By no way shape or form am I claiming that using an 'optimized' build aiming to do the most DPS is 'the best', or 'the right way' -- I'm not trying to start or enforce that kind of thinking. What I am trying to do is present it at least as an option and to make use the wiki. The strategy section is woefully barren and I'd like to do whatever I can to help that.
So, if you actually read all of that, thank you, and secondly, heeelp meee dooo thiiiis.
That being said, I open the floor for general chicanery, and hopefully some discussion on specifically the Pistol. Once that's done, I'll move on to the next, and the next, and the next...
For an example, the pistol. If you were going to use the pistol and only the pistol and no other weapon (not even other types of pistols), what would be the "best" mods to put on your pistol? I'll explain a little more...
AlterAsc raised an interesting point when he was explaining his choice of mods/traits when using rapid-fire weapons, and it basically boiled down to the notion that an optimized version of any particular weapon would be the version that provides you the most DPS (there are possibly only two exceptions to that rule as far as I could see, rocket jumping and wall breaking), since most of the time in DoomRL, you're aiming to kill something and to kill it as quickly as possible.
It's true that there are many different playstyles and builds in DoomRL, but I think it should be possible to hash out some rough "optimized builds" for specific weapons based with maximizing DPS. I've recently gotten hooked on the Wiki and am in the middle of doing a huge overhaul to the weapons sections, but I lack the technical knowledge to do it successfully on my own. I've already templated all the weapons, all the weapon families, set up game data/strategy tabs, updated the front page, and have organized strategy sections for the weapons based on family and individual weapon. Most of those however, are empty. There were a few existing articles that I moved/incorporated. This is where everyone else comes in!
As AlterAsc also pointed out, making the DPS too high (I believe 12 for most ranged) will cause knock back, which at the moment is triggered before damage, meaning that multiple shots will push the enemy back and cause them to avoid the damage from subsequent rounds. I assume this is not intentional and will be amended in a later version, so assuming this is the case, there's two things I'd be looking at doing.
1) Optimization of the Pistol for 0996
2) Theoretical optimization of the Pistol.
I only want to focus on the Pistol right now because the boards have been a little quiet lately and I'd like to do things one at a time if I can. I intend to either spark enough interest in this idea that people will help put stuff on the wiki, or if they're not interested in editing the wiki themselves (as I know some people don't want to bother learning wiki syntax or are busy with other projects), at least post your knowledge here and I'll gladly crib what I can and credit the poster in the talk remarks for that section.
Again, I'd like to make it very clear that I know and understand part of the fun to DoomRL is playing how you want, and that there are tons of options and builds available. By no way shape or form am I claiming that using an 'optimized' build aiming to do the most DPS is 'the best', or 'the right way' -- I'm not trying to start or enforce that kind of thinking. What I am trying to do is present it at least as an option and to make use the wiki. The strategy section is woefully barren and I'd like to do whatever I can to help that.
So, if you actually read all of that, thank you, and secondly, heeelp meee dooo thiiiis.
That being said, I open the floor for general chicanery, and hopefully some discussion on specifically the Pistol. Once that's done, I'll move on to the next, and the next, and the next...
34
Nightmare! / Re: [N!|AoB|75%|8|YASD] This is really, really hard
« on: August 15, 2012, 09:45 »
Scout + Hellrunner 3 + Dodgemaster + Finesse 2 + WK2 + Tac Armor (A) + Tac Boots (A) + Running = NEED FOR SPEED PHOBOS
I think you could probably make yourself faster with modded boots/armor but probably not dodgier. I wonder if it is possible to become so fast, you wouldn't *need* to dodge.
"Are you saying I can dodge plasma volleys?"
"No. I'm saying when you're ready, you won't have to."
I think you could probably make yourself faster with modded boots/armor but probably not dodgier. I wonder if it is possible to become so fast, you wouldn't *need* to dodge.
"Are you saying I can dodge plasma volleys?"
"No. I'm saying when you're ready, you won't have to."
35
0.9.9.6 / Re: [M|AoB|82%|24|YASD] A berserk-packing half of a man. Whoops.
« on: August 14, 2012, 23:34 »
Ah, that's a shame. You should have popped that lava element and punched him to death.
Lin Kuei style.
Lin Kuei style.
36
Discussion / Re: Technical outline for ChaosForge tilesets.
« on: August 14, 2012, 12:42 »
This thread is way too interesting to be languishing for 30 days without attention and zero feedback at all.
I'm not an artist, nor am I a coder at all. I imagine people might have glanced at what you typed up and balked a little bit because it seems like a lot of start up work, but if I understand what you're proposing, that's only initially. Once you have a set of parameters and guidelines for scales, palettes, frames, etc, then anyone who was willing and able to do the spritework would theoretically be able to look at said guidelines, do up the work, and then plop it out nicely in a package ready to be inserted over some code, right?
I'm posting here right now because this not only sounds like an awesome idea, but because it should hopefully trigger that little "UNREAD MESSAGE" flag for people and get some attention over here where it belongs.
Please do! I think it'll be easier for people to understand why this is important. If you really want to get them fired up, try doing a fake AliensRL graphical mock-up, khe he he he.
I'm not an artist, nor am I a coder at all. I imagine people might have glanced at what you typed up and balked a little bit because it seems like a lot of start up work, but if I understand what you're proposing, that's only initially. Once you have a set of parameters and guidelines for scales, palettes, frames, etc, then anyone who was willing and able to do the spritework would theoretically be able to look at said guidelines, do up the work, and then plop it out nicely in a package ready to be inserted over some code, right?
I'm posting here right now because this not only sounds like an awesome idea, but because it should hopefully trigger that little "UNREAD MESSAGE" flag for people and get some attention over here where it belongs.
I'll u/l some examples to illustrate what I'm talking about
Please do! I think it'll be easier for people to understand why this is important. If you really want to get them fired up, try doing a fake AliensRL graphical mock-up, khe he he he.
37
Discussion / Re: Best mods for Nuclear plasma rifle
« on: August 13, 2012, 14:05 »
Good stuff! Now we're talkin', this is exactly the indepth kind of look I wanted on these guns. I rarely if ever use chainguns, so this helps show me why modding a plas in a certain way is "bad"; it isn't bad as a weapon per se but it isn't any more efficient than just using a chaingun with far less mods and way earlier on (which means it's redundant from a DPS viewpoint, as you've stated).
I'm totally obsessed with the nuclear plasma rifle, so I usually aim for that, hence my love of EE (sometimes even Cateye).
I'll have to see how a TTTPP one works out, and, luck willing, a TTTFF or at least TTTPF.
Nanomac'd weapons are funny because you can just spray and spray, but it isn't so funny when they get you killed because they're missing shot or not doing as much damage as they could me.
I'm totally obsessed with the nuclear plasma rifle, so I usually aim for that, hence my love of EE (sometimes even Cateye).
I'll have to see how a TTTPP one works out, and, luck willing, a TTTFF or at least TTTPF.
Nanomac'd weapons are funny because you can just spray and spray, but it isn't so funny when they get you killed because they're missing shot or not doing as much damage as they could me.
38
DiabloRL / Re: Is this *EVER* going to be released?
« on: August 13, 2012, 13:31 »
Thanks! I'll give this an earnest go. Time to be less productive at work and more productive about roguelikes khe he he...
39
Discussion / Re: Best mods for Nuclear plasma rifle
« on: August 13, 2012, 13:21 »Sorry for confusing you, i meant assault nuclear plasma.
Oh! Yeah, no worries. Isn't Burst Cannon Nuclear Plasma also an option?
And since you brought it up... Why do you view Assault Nuclear Plasma as a waste of a weapon? Do you mean just vanilla? I think an Assault Nuclear Plasma with a Firestorm on it or a Power mod on it would be pretty awesome. If I went Burst Cannon Nuclear Plasma, maybe a Sniper pack. Unless there's something I'm not taking into consideration (other than the fact that not everyone always takes EE2 like I do)
Those are fairly ridiculous though.
40
Nightmare! / Re: [N!|AoB|83%|YAVP] Berserker Diamond
« on: August 13, 2012, 13:15 »
What would you have taken instead of Iro1? Bad2?
41
Discussion / Re: Best mods for Nuclear plasma rifle
« on: August 13, 2012, 13:05 »No there's no such thing as nuclear hyperblaster.Definitely.You can only do assault one, but that's a waste of a good gun.
Wait, how do you make an assault hyperblaster? I thought you could only add one mod to a completed assembly?
42
DiabloRL / Re: Is this *EVER* going to be released?
« on: August 13, 2012, 12:39 »
Thy will be done.
I'll give it a shot as soon as I get home from work.
I'll give it a shot as soon as I get home from work.
43
Play-By-Forum / Re: Doom(RL) Word soccer
« on: August 13, 2012, 12:36 »Hell Fortress
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sorry, I don't intend to derail.
Game is still at Uranium's post.
Now you have to tell us what your previous word was.
To continue the game:
TNT: Evilution
44
DiabloRL / Re: Is this *EVER* going to be released?
« on: August 13, 2012, 12:20 »
Although I don't understand coding at all (attempting to read Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs on MIT and failing more than once has turned me into a gibbering imp left with no recourse but to hurt myself) or any math more complicated than Dungeons and Dragons, I would still like to help (or prod others into helping).
Despite being it open source, is there still some central hub that has like a list of what needs to be done, bug reports, typos, testing, etc? Even if it's only programming that needs to be done, if there's no home base then how can people throw money at it?
Maybe I will prepare my body and mind and attempt to read SICP again.
Despite being it open source, is there still some central hub that has like a list of what needs to be done, bug reports, typos, testing, etc? Even if it's only programming that needs to be done, if there's no home base then how can people throw money at it?
Maybe I will prepare my body and mind and attempt to read SICP again.
45
Play-By-Forum / Re: Doom(RL) Word soccer
« on: August 13, 2012, 10:48 »
It wasn't over... It still isn't over!
Earth!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Earth!