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Messages - SageAcrin

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31
Bug Reports / Re: Impossible to reach the exit
« on: April 19, 2013, 16:19 »
1/100 or less shots don't make people carry envirosuits.

I just tank it and shrug at my lost Medkit or Phase Device. Which take as much inventory space as the envirosuit would have. It is unbelievably rare that you'll be in a situation that you'll eat more damage than that.

If you want people to actually carry envirosuits(as opposed to using them on the spot), have them buff body resistance to the acid and fire you're going to get bombarded with when you try to cross a large open area(namely, a lava/acid river), with no way to stay out of LoS besides careful radar shooting to lure enemies into range, and little guarantee that you've gotten all of them.

Bonus points if it buffs plasma, too.

It's still not that great then, but I can't think of a better defense against, say, a "mess" floor than that, if it had those kinds of resistance buffs, and it certainly fits.

32
Discussion / Re: Practical use of skulls/Arena Master staff
« on: April 18, 2013, 18:51 »
Add some knockback to the staff blast. 3-4 squares would allow you to use it as a kind of pseudo-escape effect, which, considering that it's competing with running, is fine enough.

Seems the fastest way to make it better without making it massively better.

Skulls are harder. Off the top of my head, ditch Fire Skull, make a Rock Skull(or something similar) that absorbs corpses for armor/boots durability(can't be too high, maybe 1-2% per corpse, portable durability restore is a unique effect), and make the healing effect on Blood Skull better.

Remember, it has to compete with a medkit. Getting 10 HP a corpse might be really good, but it's also a quite rare item and you still need a fair deal of bodies on the floor.

33
Requests For Features / Re: AoMr & Limbo/Mortuary
« on: April 17, 2013, 12:08 »
Adding a decent set of exotics to the Limbo/Mortuary would be a harmless way to make it more fun. I'd say just toss a randomized exotic pistol/shotgun(instead of the Assault Shotgun)/rapid weapon in the corners that don't have the nuclear BFG.

Generally speaking, if you can clear those without a nuke, you're probably going to beat the game, so it's not like it's dangerous to balance. :)

34
I'd kinda like the map to still remember powerups and stairs, at the very least. Thematic as it may be as it is, it's really grating on me as well, and too many AoD challenges revolve around high kills for me to not want to clear out floors...at which point I need to recall where those stairs were after clearing out a floor, or where that heal was...

Also, if maps don't actually do anything, they probably shouldn't spawn. (The challenges that specifically revolve around you not being able to use powerups are one thing, but AoD's point isn't that in theory.)

Quote
I'm starting to believe that these dual angel combos with overconfidence, actually ruin the game rewards and experience, especially the challenges that are supposed to be truly difficult...

Mmm, you can abuse it for a few cheap Platinum and Diamonds, yes, but often enough it's still going to take skill.

I may have blasted through the game there, but I also only got 11% kills. Basically every challenge takes a fair deal of kills, and I could have been just doing maingame runs and trying to get sub-20 instead for an actual Badge.

The main things it helps with is Longinus(Not actually major, current strategies allow anyone that gets to it on N! to potentially beat it, if you really, really know what you're doing and are willing to spend tons of time), Scavenger(Gives you multiple, faster cracks at a challenge that otherwise is entirely luck. Then again, you have less resources to work with to make those count.), and maybe Marksmanship(You can probably get an easy Diamond here if you specifically get invincos+Trigun. I saw Trigun once in all of those tries and I died before I could reach it, incidentally. Part of the trick for this is actually getting the fast kill before invinco wears off and L4 pistol setups are bad at that.).

Otherwise, you still need a fair deal of skill, at least for N!...or to really rig up a massive RNG string, which will take a lot of time anyways(Like, say, getting Jackhammer and invincos at the right time.). And you could have gotten really good RNG for any run. As you can see, I literally netted nothing but a dinky medal I already had for this trick.

The main difference as I see it is that you skip Anomaly, and Anomaly as it stands strikes me as way out of place as a threat level(requires specific answers as much or more than Cyberdemon but is far earlier and you're given far less time to deal with it.). But Angel of Confidence lets you do that more safely anyways, if you wanted to do that.

Regardless, it seems an easy fix. Just have AoOC count only for AoOC badges and non-specific-playthrough badges. It takes the behavior back to previous, sounds like.

Quote
Were you playing console or graphical? Console is a lot faster and recommended for speedrunning.

Graphical. That's part of why I'm curious to see if someone else can pull this off under a minute; I don't think it's that big of a speed difference, because I'm not actually sure how it can be, but hey, I'd like to be proven wrong. :)

35
Discussion / Re: Opinions on new special levels needed!
« on: April 16, 2013, 22:40 »
As someone that started with this version and has no idea what the special levels were really like beforehand...

Arena: Seems fairly balanced for what it is. Total deathtrap on N! for my money, but considering the badges for it, I think that's intentional enough.

Chained Court: Enjoyable, I generally find it a bit easy, but it gives some basic, reliable resources. Good stuff.

(Un)Chained Court: Somewhat harder. Haven't tried this on N!, see comment about the Arena being a deathtrap, but lower than that I still can't say I find it ridiculously hard.

Military Base: Relatively easy, but sorta easy to screw up too. Elite Commandos are ridiculously and randomly dangerous, which seems okay until they fire a Napalm Launcher at you(Had that happen on UV once. Lost 70% of my life from one shot and had to Phase in order to not die instantly.). Loot is pretty random in practice(very breakable crates oriented) but the mods are always nice.

Phobos Lab: Generally worse than base, as noted. I find it pretty manageable on UV and below, but the main loot to me is the extra two large Medkits...and on N! I have not found a way to deal with the Nightmare Demon hallway of "You're never moving, are you?" doom without burning healing, so this makes the rewards rather bad there. It's generally easier than Base on lower difficulties, I find, but the rewards are pretty meh overall. Also, I hate the scripted loss of Envirosuit, it's out of place and basically just a cheapshot. Easy to avoid the cheapshot by picking up both suits and just using the second one after it, to boot.

Hell Armory: A bit easy, good rewards, and if I need spare armors, it has some. Seems pretty good. The setup is generally much safer than the alternative, I find, though it's very easy to screw up if you're not cautious. Layout is far more conducive to fighting Shamblers even ignoring the fact that you only fight one.

Deimos Lab: Double Shambler fight is far, far harder, but it does have healing...that's hidden and easily missed in a casual run, and requires walking through acid to get to unless you manage some good rocket bank shots. Hiding said Supercharges seems strange. Lower end loot is breakable crates+mods, so it's random if it's better or not than Hell's Armory. Honestly I think this is pretty balanced, though the Shambler fight definitely can go out of control easily due to the open area and the fact that there's two.

The Wall: Eh. Backpack is neat but you can really get by without it, and cutting through a bunch of Hell Knights/Barons isn't my idea of fun(unless I somehow have an Onyx or Nano armor.). It's basically one subjective reward and one solid launcher, but you could probably get by with the launcher you had if you could get into The Wall at all. See others comments about there being more Missile Launchers in the game, too. Would really be a good place to put a new missile weapon if you wanted to make one.

Containment Area: More fun than the Wall. Not really that different, but I find fighting out of an enclosed situation more entertaining than fighting into a bunch of enemies. Would like it if the Backpack wasn't in an area where you can get shot by an enemy and have it destroyed(This was my unfun experience the first time I entered. There's a similar, but less easy to solve, problem with the Backpack at the Wall getting blown up by the rockets that the setup encourages you to use, but that's a much harder fix so eh.). Loot's kinda ehn to me still.

Abyssal Plains: Straight up slugfest with solid loot. Feels like a more logical place for the Missile Launcher than Wall/Containment. Standard but interesting enough. The Agony Elemental fight varies a lot depending on what it decides to do and your build, but it generally ends up not being so risky that I mind the being locked in part.

City of Skulls: Massive ammo drain and not worth it for any builds that don't have heavy AoE. Has some ammo that probably won't replenish what it cost. Skulls as rewards kinda suck unless you're planning on doing Mortuary/Limbo. Then again, a BFG works decently well for that too, I believe, and Carnage/Spider always shows up. Basically free EXP for shotgun builds and not much else. Could really use some spicing up.

Halls of Carnage: Interesting area that isn't too challenging, but has forced time pressure. Making people play outside of their comfort zone is cool. :) Loot is worth the effort. Read up on the N! version, and am rather intimidated by it, though. Definitely seems a huge spike there compared to UV.

Spider's Lair: Kinda randomly deathtrap-y. On average it doesn't seem too bad, but every time I go in I'm afraid I'll dodge a little less than I should, or that they'll get better RNG than they should. Still, the concept is interesting and the loot/EXP are good for a short but intense fight, seems like.

Unholy Cathedral: Melee builds only, they get good stuff from it. Simple enough. Yes, I know it's not melee builds only, strictly speaking, but that's way too much work for my tastes otherwise. :)

Vaults: Weird area. Basically best for those who spoil themselves, but even if you do and know how it works, and have the way to make it work, the loot's really random. Still, fine enough.

Mortuary: Death trap area with a cool reward, basically optional super area, cool enough.

Limbo: Never seem to get this. The few times I have involved passing through it invinco or nuking it. I know the layout but I can't give a good opinion on it.

Lava Pits: Ditto Limbo except I've never actually drawn this when I intended to do a bunch of lava walking. Go fig.

Mt. Erebus: Did complete this once. Decent enough for what it is, but what it is basically is less difficult and more specific preparation. Generally don't like bothering, though; the loot's mostly centered around the Lava Element, which mostly is for enabling a Full...which I often lack the other tools needed to do, and may get the tools to replace the Element randomly anyways. Works for what it is, though, which is a way of enabling Fulls without letting everyone get them easily...

36
DoomRL crates and doors are specially engineered genetic devices, infused with the souls of the damned.

When you break them, they scream. :)

(You can't hear it because it's really quiet and you're listening for other things, of course. :) )

37
--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 E, level 4 Arch-Vile Br. General Scout,
 defeated the Mastermind at the City of Dis.
 He survived 1668 turns and scored 72325 points.
 He played for 2 minutes and 29 seconds.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 38 out of 339 hellspawn. (11%)
 Who gave him the ticket to Hell, anyway?
 He was an Angel of Berserk!
 He was also an Angel of Overconfidence!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 4
  Levels visited   : 3
  Levels completed : 0

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Mastermind's Brain

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ##################................................#########
  #################...............####...............########
  ################.......####.....####.....####.......#######
  ###############........####.....####.....####........######
  ##############.........####.....####.....####.........#####
  #############..........####..............####..........####
  ############............................................###
  ############....####............................####....###
  ############....####............................####....###
  ############....####............................####&...###
  ############....####............................####....###
  ############............................................###
  #############..........####..............####..........####
  ##############.........####.....####.....####.........#####
  ###############........####.....####.....####........######
  ################.......####...X.####.....####.......#######
  #################............%..####...............########
  ##################................................#########
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 60/60   Experience 4146/4
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +4  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +6

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Scout

    Ironman          (Level 1)
    Hellrunner       (Level 1)
    Brute            (Level 2)

  HR->Bru->Bru->Iro->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   nothing
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   chainsaw (4d6)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   nothing
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   nothing

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] combat knife (2d5)
    [b] large med-pack
    [c] large med-pack
    [d] large med-pack

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Bullet     - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Melee      - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Shrapnel   - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Acid       - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Fire       - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Plasma     - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    3 former humans
    1 former sergeant
    4 former captains
    8 imps
    1 demon
    8 lost souls
    3 barons of hell
    1 arachnotron
    1 mancubus
    2 arch-viles
    3 nightmare imps
    1 nightmare cacodemon
    1 nightmare arachnotron
    1 Spider Mastermind

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  On level 1 he invaded the Unholy Cathedral!
  He fled the Unholy Cathedral seeing no chance to win.
  He left level 3 as soon as possible.
  On level 4 he was foolish enough to enter Limbo!
  He managed to escape from Limbo!
  He left level 5 as soon as possible.
  He left level 6 as soon as possible.
  On level 6 he entered the Lava Pits.
  He decided it was too hot there.
  Then at last he found Dis!
  On level 8 he finally defeated the Mastermind.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
 taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit!
 You need to taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
 taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
 taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind flinched! You need to
 taste blood!
 You hit the Spider Mastermind. The Spider Mastermind dies. Congratulations!
 You defeated the Spider Mastermind! Press <Enter>...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 335 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 284 of those were killed.
 1 of those was killed by something unknown.
 4 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 22 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 24 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 3 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 18 killed the bitch and survived.
 3 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------

This is basically me messing around with one of the fastest win tricks in the game.

Simply get enough invinco(disclaimer: This is a lot of invinco. This run got three Hell:1 Invincos and rode on it for literally the entire game. I forget if I found a fourth...), learn how to pacifist your way through massive volleys of juggling rockets, and use the Chainsaw to carve up the Mastermind. Simple! Not very likely to happen. But simple! It was something fun to muck with, since it's such a hilarious thing to be able to do.

The thing is, this massively high RNG strategy, executed pretty fast, took two and a half minutes. Is Speedrunner Angelic, which has to run triple the area, including several forced long walks(Entrance, Phobos Anomaly, gotta get up to Mastermind...let's assume Cyberdemon starts within melee distance, oh and since it's a normal run you need to visit Chained Court to pick up a Chainsaw or else it takes way longer. Or massively blast your odds downward, by requiring a rare melee weapon to spawn on the way. Or requiring two nuclear devices/a Trigun.), actually possible? Even with literally chained stairs within LoS(With a handy Invinco as needed before Cyberdemon/Mastermind) as you come down them?

Oh, sure, you can get Phases in the right spots to cut the walks, too. But it's still going to take a bit to get through the entrance. And as bad as the odds already are, how likely is that set of lucky Phases? Or maybe they'll be Homings, let's lower the odds even more.

I admit, my computer's not cutting edge, and some small amount of lag may be taking place, and having to cut through Limbo probably added thirty seconds here(Limbo's not that long of a walk, when you're invinco...but I did get shot at a lot.). But I'm legitimately wondering if Speedrunner Angelic is actually doable.

RNGs usually have limitations that prevent one in a billion shots from actually occuring, and it certainly feels like it's in that area(this took four or five hundred runs. Don't let my total deaths fool you, I just reset everything that obviously had no chance. Still only took a few hours though.).

As such, I'm curious to see if anyone can get this down to a minute(optimally, under would be best for proof of concept). If that's possible, then Speedrunner Angelic probably is. Good luck with that, though. This is still funny in its own right. :)

38
Nightmare! / Re: [N!|AoD|92%|9|YASD] Shamblers suck!
« on: April 16, 2013, 15:30 »
Personally, I decided the Deimos Lab was better to just raid and leave than actually clean out.

It's very easy to do a smash and grab to get all the breakable crates, the mods, and any exotics in there, and then split. It's really tempting to go for the big cache-that can be a run definer, getting a nice Nano or Onyx-but I was pretty afraid of exactly what happened there to you.

Phobos Lab I tried a few times. It's possible but it's really irritating and requires a pretty specific set of actions, as far as I can tell. (Lure most of the Nightmare Demons into the acid, be willing to blow some healing clearing out the tunnel further in because they are never, ever going to move, truck over to the west side, grab both Envirosuits, use one, hit switch, run left straight up the big acid pit until the second set of Demons are let out and you get the scripted loss of Envirosuit, use the second, then run right back over the acid so the demons follow you into that and get shotgunned to death, then leave.)

Mostly the loot's bad by N!, though. One mod isn't a great reward, neither is one specific shotgun or a Blue Armor, and the two large medkits-the reason I usually go in-I've never managed to actually keep through the whole thing on N!. For that matter, the times I tried the place, I usually slipped up someplace weird and died.

I was wondering if the AoD EXP stacked on N!. Since it does... I think you're onto something there, as far as ways to get through N! goes.

39
Believe you're right, I spent a pretty large number of turns waiting for them to drop dead, to no avail.

On the upside, if you have a weapon that won't knock them out of the situation, you can drop them into lava and then wander out of LoS, pelting them with bullets until they die.

It's not all bad.

40
I just wanted to mention that finesse/hellrunner doesn't help to prolong invulnerability, since its length is measured in turns, not seconds. You can always make the same number of steps while invulnerable, no matter your movement speed.

Yeah, I read about this in another thread right after I was done.

Not really a big deal, though. That makes the optimal Trait to build for this particular method...SoB, and while SoB would probably add up, it's still only a few points of bonus damage. Even against 10 armor, there's only so much it can help.

Had I known, I might have just built Hellrunner instead, so that more runs got to the Invinco/stairs.

Quote
(I used unmodded knives ~~)

Now that's patience...

41
You know, I was thinking that too, when it happened.

But hey, it took two floors worth of firepower to kill me even with no armor, no other items, no healing and four levels to my name, in Hell, on N!. Two levels of which were devoted to Finesse, yet.

It's a hell of a weapon.

Edit: In retrospect, it might have been better to skip Cathedral and try to keep my Medkits, and try a real run of it instead of what I did. Though, I could have cleared with what I was doing...just needed some healing on the way, at all.

But eh...if I can get it once doing this, it can happen again. I'm not going to kick myself, and this was decent enough.

42
Requests For Features / Re: A small suggestion.
« on: April 15, 2013, 21:23 »
Skulls and shockwaves are vaguely useless to carry around.

They're not bad, it's just...you could be carrying something you use more than once, that's more likely to save your life. Skulls are pretty much Mortuary/Limbo fodder for me; If I'm not keeping them for that, I just use them the first convenient spot for a small heal or berserk(and I just pick up Fire ones to register them.).

Shockwaves just strike me as kinda bad(not on paper, just...they don't compete well with the other uses for a slot. 50 average damage over rad 6 is basically a BFG shot with the range of a knife throw. Think about how often this will save you). Actual Hellwaves are a good Phase substitute(you can often use them in many of the same situations you'd need a Phase), but they're pretty rare.

Quote
A lot of new players tend to carry ~10 medkits, which is a lot more than you should need.

Hey, I go up to seven or eight sometimes. :| But I like my safety nets, and often sacrifice weapon options for more medkits. And of course, a really durable armor means no armor spares needed, which means more Medkits.

What I'm saying here is that I really like Medkits.

The trick is mostly that you should never carry Small Medkits after the first eight floors-they're not even that great there, unless you're on ITYTD! or N!. That's a big newbie mistake; They just aren't that good, at best being better than nothing.

Large Medkits only get common enough to be inventory clutter if you're having a really, really good run, so it's not really that big of a deal anyways.

43
--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 E, level 4 Arch-Vile Lt. Colonel Marine,
 was bruised by a baron of hell on level 4 of Hell.
 He survived 5558 turns and scored 42397 points.
 He played for 7 minutes and 26 seconds.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 56 out of 174 hellspawn. (32%)
 He was an Angel of Berserk!
 He was also an Angel of Overconfidence!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 4
  Levels visited   : 1
  Levels completed : 1

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Longinus Diamond Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ##.##########..######.0#########.##########################
  .#....######....#####..########...#########################
  ##.^..###........###......#####....########################
  #.0...##..............===...###.|...###########.###########
  .0###...0...#####.....====...###...###########...#..#######
  ..####.....M#...#...^.+===....##.....#########.......######
  ..B.#...#^.c+...#................===....X|............#####
  ..^.....###.#...#.#####...#####.=======..###..######..#####
  ...==....##.#####.#...#..|#...#.========.#....#....+...####
  ..====...##.......+...#..}#..^#.========......#....#...V###
  ..====0........=..#####...#..h#.=========B....#....#....###
  ii.==.i0......===hh......h#...#.==......0.....######0M...##
  ......######h..=..h.....0.###/#....#####...##.......M==..V#
  .|i...#######.>....hB...0...h.....#######.######..........#
  .#i...#######..##..###.0==......#################..".....##
  .##..############..##....h......###############......######
  ^##...###########..#.....B......##############......#######
  ####..############h......##h...h##############...###.######
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 0/60   Experience 6140/4
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +0  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Marine

    Finesse          (Level 2)
    Hellrunner       (Level 1)
    Tough as nails   (Level 1)

  Fin->Fin->HR->TaN->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   nothing
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   Dragonslayer (9d9)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   nothing
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   nothing

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] Longinus Spear (8d8)

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Bullet     - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Melee      - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Shrapnel   - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Acid       - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Fire       - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 
    Plasma     - internal 60%   torso 60%   feet 60% 

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    6 imps
    22 demons
    22 lost souls
    2 arachnotrons
    1 pain elemental
    2 mancubi
    1 Angel of Death

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  Level 1 blasted him with an unholy atmosphere!
  On level 1 he found the Dragonslayer!
  On level 1 he invaded the Unholy Cathedral!
  On level 1 he found the Longinus Spear!
  He then destroyed the Unholy Cathedral!
  He left level 2 as soon as possible.
  On level 3 he was targeted for extermination!
  Entering level 4 he was almost dead...
  On level 4 he finally was bruised by a baron of hell.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 You need to taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You need to taste blood! There is power cell (x40) lying here.
 You need to taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You need to taste blood!
 You dodge! Boom! You die!... Press <Enter>...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 263 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 224 of those were killed.
 1 of those was killed by something unknown.
 4 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 14 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 20 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 3 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 14 killed the bitch and survived.
 3 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I suppose this is a death, it wasn't very stupid since not just one goal, but a second one I considered unbelievably long term, were accomplished.

The idea was simple; "Hey, how close can AoB/AoOC with an invinco come to getting Longinus Diamond?". Get an invinco close to the stairs, and use the Chainsaw drop berserk trick, and go go go. Level Finesse/Hellrunner so you get more turns invinco. Simple idea, and while it takes an amazing amount of tries(You do not get this combination of factors fast), it seems worth trying. I got Longinus Platinum without knowing about the Chainsaw trick...how hard can it be?

The logic here being that, since I know the general tactic for getting this normally involves doing laps around the lava pool for 30 minutes or so, that even a huge amount of restarts can be done in a short enough span of time so that it's not actually that much slower.

The answer is that it can actually do it. I had a heartbreaking run where I actually downed the Angel, but was out of Medkits and died to the last few Demons filing in on top of his corpse. No big deal; The only good luck I'd gotten that run was getting the invinco in the right place, and a well placed Bulk pack, a Berserk pack on the way in, almost anything would have worked. (Probably doing the Chainsaw drop earlier than reaching the Demon horde would have too, in retrospect.)

So, play a little more for good RNG.

That's not...quite how I got it, though. I happened to see, not an Invinco on one run, but Dragonslayer.

So, I tried some suggestions from a friend (Well, specifically he mentioned what he was going to try if he saw it.), and I tried a few things and wait I picked it up?

...

I picked it up. Well then. Let's go see about a Diamond.

Sadly, I died a bit later-had to use up all my Medkits in the Cathedral, and the game gave me no healing in the two floors I dashed through, so I fell a bit short even with the amazing power of Dragonslayer.

And I'm still not entirely sure what I did that picked it up! Though I have a reasonably good idea.

But hey, I'm now extremely happy with this run. Worth ramming into the game for an hour before bed for. :)

44
Practicing specific areas with a single save file can be a trap, anyways.

Sure, you get it down to a science with a specific build. Then what? Always use that build? How are you going to handle, say, half the Angels, then?

Doing full runs is always better. Potentially more frustrating (says the person that just lost an HMP YAAM AoI run on Hell:7, that was sure to take out Mastermind.), but better.

45
Yeah, but it would have been a half damage physical, effectively.

In practice, taking the turn to swap into a mainhand Chainsword(for doubled damage with my physicals, due to MMB) was basically always worth it. Weaker enemies always got splattered by whatever highly modded weapon I had out, and I wanted all the power I could get for Lava Elementals/Bruisers/Cyberdemons/Shamblers/high end Nightmares/etc.

Though, thinking on, it would have been nice for Arachnotrons. I think I still would have oneshotted them with one weapon, due to the weakness to melee. And I wasn't reliably knocking them out of range or oneshotting them, and sometimes they skitter into weird ranges due to the speed bonus. So, you do have a point there.

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