Chaosforge Forum

DoomRL => Requests For Features => Topic started by: Malek Deneith on December 08, 2007, 12:21

Title: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Malek Deneith on December 08, 2007, 12:21
New topic for challenge modes.

Old challenge modes

Angel of Carnage
You start with a chaingun, and cant't unwield it. (easy challenge)

Angel of Fire
More lava is generated in the level, at many places. However, this alone make it easy (they will all kill themself) so all monsters should be immune from lava damage (or at least they should dodge it)

Angel of Massacre
All monsters generated are former humans, there is 2*more of them. (easy challenge)

Angel of Explosions 
All explosions are double (or 1.5 if double's too much) sized. Both enemy fire and your weapons, and barrels too. You could use this to your advantage with larger barrel explosions and rocket blasts, and the BFG taking out most of a level in a single shot, but even imp fireballs would now have sizeable explosions.

Angel of Realism
1. You start with green armour on.
2. Many humans drop armour (I mean, what are they doing without it?)
3. Enemies do INCREDIBLE damage if you have no armour on.
4. Enemies do normal damage if you do have armour on.
5. More armour is found randomly.(optional)

Angel of Balanced Traits
Cannot get a lvl-2-trait while having... let's say half of the lvl-1-traits ^^

Idea: Most players will have one "cool" trait like Cateye or Tough as nails on vl 3 before getting anything else. In this chalenge you would have to get first more than one on lvl 1, before you are allowed to get one on lvl 2.

Angel of Bad Experience
With every lvl-up you have to chose a trait, right? So... negate the bonuses! Instead of 10 more hit points lose 5 of the maximum, instead of sight radius plus one, lose one, instead of reload 20% faster, do it 20% slower, and so on.

Idea: Why are the traits only positiv? Traits could be negative, too - and as every role player should know: negative traits will add some fun to any game ;)

Angel of Fire Raiser
Every explosion (barrels, weapons, monsters, bla - you know, what creates explosions *g*) will set a field with a 50%-chance into lava.

Angel Of Ambush
All enemies are invisible untill they attack in any way. also, your sight radius is modified by -2 (meaning max level cateye will restore your sight radius to normal)

Angel of Angst
Every monster you kill requires you to sit through a randomly-generated bad poem.

Angel of Disease
You're dying of cancer -- as long as you're dying, why not take a few demons with you?  Your max HP goes down by 1 for every 1000 moves, to a minimum of 1 plus whatever you get from ironman.

Angel of Escape
You're fighting up to the surface.  You start with red armor and the BFG fighting the cyberdemon, and have to make it to the surface with ever-weaker weapons and limited supplies of ammo for your best weapons, while more and more former humans come against you...

Angel of Hallucinations
The game randomly assigns a new 'psychadellic' monkier (and new color/symbol) to every monster, weapon, special level, etc., at the beginning of the game.  You have no way of knowing what a 'monkey launcher' is until you fire it (is it the BFG or an advanced pistol?), and the 'menacing clown' (represented by a bright yellow c) might be the Cyberdemon, a Baron of Hell, or a former human.

Angel of Senility
You're pretty much the army's LAST hope.  You lose 1 XP per turn, unless you'd drop a level.

Angel of Sniping
Your sight range is increased by 5.  If enemies are close, your to-hit roll takes a (6-distance) penalty.  (Aaah!  Demons and lost souls!  Geddem off me!)

Angel of Ass-kicking
Your game MUST end with a 100% kill count

Angel of Energy
Plasma cells can be used as:
Health globes (2 per 1 HP)
Teleporters (20 per teleport)
Damage modifiers (5 per +dam per weapon per turn)
XP (1 per 8 XP points)

But, you find less health, less phase devices, less yellow {'s, get less XP and more plasma cells.

Angel of Skill
XP rate -50% (i.e things worth 20 xp become 10 xp)
All traits +50% (i.e ironman increases 15 health and cateye increases sight by 3 at level 2.)

Angel of Bones
Every death in this mode has a chance to produce so called bones-level (i.e save of the level - the name was taken from dungeoncrawl ^^'). Every time you play inj this mode again there is an chance that when you enter the same level that you died on that instead of random level an bones level will be used - containig ghost of you (hostile) carrying the same equipment as you at time of death, and having the same traits.

Angel of Radiance
You are bathed in a radiance that shines like a beacon to all the nasties bellow, Basically they have the equivilent to cats eye III and can shoot you from that distance (allthough in I'm too young to die it would be reduced to I cats eye, Hey not too rough - II, Ultra violence - IV and in Nightmare an impressive 5 extra spaces for monster sight!)

Angel of Cowardice
- you always are in coward mode
- you have an extra bonus in dodge and run
- you don't get xp for killing monsters
- at leave a level, you get xp for monsters you left alive

Angel of Pain
- you only get xp for every hurt you get
- when you get big hurts, there is a % that you get berserk

Angel of Apprentice
- you need more xp for advance an xp level

Angel of Exploration
- if you don't explore completily a level, you loose xp

Angel of Madness
- every time you advance one level, another ``angel of ...'' challenge is selected

Angel of Conflict
- Always in Aggressive mode(could be cautious. Or maybe even without restriction)
- Enemies sometimes attack each other when the player's around(could be, or not)
- Lot more enemies are generated
- Lot more weapons, armor, ammo, meds, and powerups are generated

Angel of Vengeance
- All damage gains a +1 bonus
- Additional +1 bonus on each level up
- All enemies killed will respawn to the next level

Angel of Love
- Always a level up when descending to next level
- Enemies can't be killed or harmed, with the exception of CD and JC

Angel of Poison
-Your life decays as if it were above 100%. (Badass trait still can slow it down, but can't nullify it)
-You gain a little of life every time you kill an enemy.
-Supercharges are disabled.
-More enemies spawned at every level.

Angel of Death
Basic concept: Enemies respawn like in N! but only a certain number of times depending on the level of difficulty.  However, you must have a 100% kill count on all ordinary levels or else you will not be able to go down the stairs ("You feel the presence of life drawing you up and away from the stairwell..").  Special levels will need to be handled differently; I'm thinking that a good policy might be that if you kill one enemy in an area like the UC or the Wall then you must go on to kill them all, or you can avoid them entirely by simply going to the stairs ("You quickly descend to the next level before the stench of life overwhelms you..").  Of course, for a perfect game you'll avoid them altogether, but some may want to visit different areas anyway.  It could also be that you have to choose between killing everything or avoiding everything on all the levels, but that doesn't seem to have quite the same bite as needing a 100% kill count even with only limited respawning to proceed. :P

Angel of Vampirism
Healing items don't work, but you gain a few hp whenever you kill an enemy.

Angel of Stupidity
Start with no traits, don't gain new traits as you level up.

Angel of Shotgun
Starts with standard Shotgun
Can only equip Shotguns/Combats/Double Shotguns
More shells are spawned in lower levels
Perhaps a guaranteed Advanced Combat Shotgun and Double Shotgun at certain level landmarks
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on December 08, 2007, 14:14
Promoted Challenges

Angel of D&D
You get +5 HP per level, +1 to hit per level, and +5% to dodge every other level.  You get one trait at chargen, and one trait every three levels.

Angel of Nukes
You've been ordered to clear out Hell, no matter what.  Every time you enter a level, a nuke is dropped and armed, with a suitably long countdown (250 or 500 turns).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Malek Deneith on December 09, 2007, 03:56
Oforfsake... we gathered 35 challenges total O.o Poll added, decided not to sort them (too much work) and gave 4 votes per person since there is so many options.

From now on new proposals will be witheld untill:
a)At least two weeks of voting on previous poll pass
b)There are are at least 10 new proposals

If both conditions are met current poll will be ended, the results saved, and new poll for new proposals will be made.

[edit]Aghrrrr, I posted poll in wrong topic - wait a minute.

[edit2]fixed
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Potman on December 09, 2007, 04:43
I voteth for Angels of D&D, Nukes, Skill, and Vengeance. Was this close of voting for Angel of Angst instead of Nukes, but I reckoned I'dn't because it's pretty much a silly joke and making it reality would ruin the joke.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: RickVoid on December 09, 2007, 07:52
I voted for Carnage, Massacre, D&D, and Escape.

And collecting these was a great idea. :)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Silhar on December 09, 2007, 11:41
I picked D&D, Angst, Nukes and Hallucinations.
There wasn't anything like those yet :).

Oh crap ! Angel of Shotguns ! Dammit, I'm a blind one.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aerton on December 10, 2007, 08:11
Hey, Angel of Bones needs more votes!
I like it the most. But, admittably, it also seems to be the hardest one to implement.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: DaEezT on December 10, 2007, 09:27
I didn't vote for Angel of Bones because I think the whole Bones thing should be integrated some other way, not as a "Challenge".
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Potman on December 10, 2007, 13:12
Bones wouldn't really work in DoomRL, with so little different kind of items and other special stuffs. In Nethack, they could've contained anything from Blessed Very Rusty +2 Long Sword to Partly Eaten Apple and everything between, including even such items that could only be found by a single character class out of thirteen, making the whole thing much more exciting and relevant.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: DaEezT on December 10, 2007, 14:34
Whoever said that bones have to be something major or ground braking? If there was a chance that a puny little former human with a pistol would just be named Former DaEezT it would be worth a chuckle to me.
Just a little fun, that's all.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on December 10, 2007, 15:05
I originaly had an idea with Named Lost Souls :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Malek Deneith on December 10, 2007, 15:17
I originaly had an idea with Named Lost Souls :P

Hey, I remember THAT :D
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on December 10, 2007, 15:19
Former commandos with same equipment you had before death seems more interesting.) You will think twice next time before dying with backpack full of meds and red armors.))
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Malek Deneith on December 11, 2007, 15:07
How about a bit of everything - for levels below UV let's spawn named lost souls - no special stuff, but a bit of change from average. For UV and N! players lets have former commandos with traits/equipment of our old characters. And to top it off Angel of Bones challenge (unlocked after, say 100 deaths), where every monster has something of an old character - with some algorithm so that melee optimized characters end up as demons, shotty characters as sergeants etc. - and which will have separate bones folder, so that it accumulates bones ad infinitum.
/me runs away with madness in eyes babbling about named lost souls and former commandso with AA and LS
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: DaEezT on December 11, 2007, 15:09
I loled :D

<constructive edit>
Sounds like a reasonable compromise
</constructive edit>
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aerton on December 14, 2007, 11:04
Whoever said that bones have to be something major or ground braking? If there was a chance that a puny little former human with a pistol would just be named Former DaEezT it would be worth a chuckle to me.Just a little fun, that's all.

If only they could inherit the AI...
Imagine being ambushed by a bunch of Former Blades
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: RickVoid on December 15, 2007, 11:49
Whoever said that bones have to be something major or ground braking? If there was a chance that a puny little former human with a pistol would just be named Former DaEezT it would be worth a chuckle to me.Just a little fun, that's all.

If only they could inherit the AI...
Imagine being ambushed by a bunch of Former Blades

0_o
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on December 15, 2007, 12:21
If only they could inherit the AI...
Imagine being ambushed by a bunch of Former Blades

Huh, that would be the most idiotic AI ever invented.) They would drop and pickup back ammo, then drop it back again, they would mistype commands, as the result they would drop ammo and weapons during combat because of mistyping.) And they almost never analyse situation, all actions they do are just the first action that came into their heads(RNG would be nice), only when they are in trouble, they begin to think for very-very long time(Kornel, you can add function that evaluates PI with given precision, and run it in such cases just to take time).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: sn0rb on December 15, 2007, 22:03
Hehe... and the Former Snorbs would horde Blue Armors and Medkits without using them =p
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Thomas on December 16, 2007, 03:20
Holy crap, it's a former Thomas!

Wait, he appears to have forgotten about the run command again. Let's shoot at him while he's holding in the move button!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: RickVoid on December 16, 2007, 10:27
Oh look, a Former Rick. Let's watch as he forgets all about the new tactics system, double-taps tab, and becomes mysteriously exhausted.
Aw, that Imp just hit the barrel next to him with a fireball. That's so cute, they're playing.
He he, he just gained a level and accidentaly took a level of brute. He's dual wielding pistols. Poor Former Rick...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Silhar on December 16, 2007, 11:28
Behold, a Former Ilhar is coming !...

...but how did he manage to get into this pack of monsters ? Just another poor blind little idiot eaten by cacos.
Hehe, got an intuition ! You can be sure that he will toss you with plasma...
...only if you do him a favor and blow that wall he is standing behind.
Hey, he's got a shottie, and a double-barreled one ! Fear him ! Now he'll lure Barons with blind shooting, just to scout what's hiding outside the LOS. Show some mercy and kill him before they will.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Malek Deneith on December 21, 2007, 17:08
Poll closed, the results were:

Code: [Select]
Angel of Carnage 5 (7.9%)
Angel of Fire 0 (0%)
Angel of Massacre 4 (6.3%)
Angel of Explosions 2 (3.2%)
Angel of Realism 1 (1.6%)
Angel of Balanced Traits 0 (0%)
Angel of Bad Experience 0 (0%)
Angel of Fire Raiser 0 (0%)
Angel Of Ambush 0 (0%)
Angel of Angst 2 (3.2%)
Angel of D&D 8 (12.7%)
Angel of Disease 1 (1.6%)
Angel of Escape 2 (3.2%)
Angel of Hallucinations 4 (6.3%)
Angel of Nukes 6 (9.5%)
Angel of Senility 1 (1.6%)
Angel of Sniping 1 (1.6%)
Angel of Ass-kicking 0 (0%)
Angel of Energy 1 (1.6%)
Angel of Skill 1 (1.6%)
Angel of Bones 2 (3.2%)
Angel of Radiance 0 (0%)
Angel of Cowardice 1 (1.6%)
Angel of Pain 0 (0%)
Angel of Apprentice 0 (0%)
Angel of Exploration 0 (0%)
Angel of Madness 3 (4.8%)
Angel of Conflict 3 (4.8%)
Angel of Vengeance 3 (4.8%)
Angel of Love 2 (3.2%)
Angel of Poison 1 (1.6%)
Angel of Death 0 (0%)
Angel of Vampirism 1 (1.6%)
Angel of Stupidity 3 (4.8%)
Angel of Shotgun 5 (7.9%)

As we decided to promote two challenge modes per voting, AoD&D and AoNukes go to bugtracker... rest will have to wait for future votings (you can propose modifications and/or new challenges in meantime).

As a small break I give you a poll on what to do with AoBones (as it was discussed quite a bit in the topic). The suggested options are:

A) Bones appear as named lost souls without any bonuses. Bones removed after killing such soul. (Perhaps souls should spawn on level you were killed - except first but including special ones. Imagine beeing greeted by swarms of lost sould on phobos arena *sadistic grin*)
B) Bones appear as named former commandos retaining all traits and weapons. Bones removed after killing such commando.
C) Angel of Bones as a challenge where all monsters are incarnations fo yourself - so for example that guy with Brute (3) and Berserker (3) will become a Demon (retaining traits) and that guy with Son of a Gun (3) and Dualgunner would become former human. All bones are kept forever. Unlocked after 200 deaths (?).
D) Combination of A, B and C. A is present for all games other than UV, on UV B replaces A, and C is a challenge and keeps track of bones separatly than A/B.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: RickVoid on December 21, 2007, 20:19
Crap... changed my mind. Can we change my single A vote to D?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on December 21, 2007, 22:18
Nope, but BTW, I'm all hands for option B.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Potman on December 22, 2007, 01:32
So about the option C) in AoBones... What if I first picked Reloader and then Shottyman, that'd make me a Sergeant, right? But what if I, later, also picked Brute and Berserker, and then died? What'd I become then?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: DaEezT on December 22, 2007, 03:09
A) Bones appear as named lost souls without any bonuses. Bones removed after killing such soul. (Perhaps souls should spawn on level you were killed - except first but including special ones. Imagine beeing greeted by swarms of lost sould on phobos arena *sadistic grin*)
B) Bones appear as named former commandos retaining all traits and weapons. Bones removed after killing such commando.
C) Angel of Bones as a challenge where all monsters are incarnations fo yourself - so for example that guy with Brute (3) and Berserker (3) will become a Demon (retaining traits) and that guy with Son of a Gun (3) and Dualgunner would become former human. All bones are kept forever. Unlocked after 200 deaths (?).
D) Combination of A, B and C. A is present for all games other than UV, on UV B replaces A, and C is a challenge and keeps track of bones separatly than A/B.

Does A only apply in AoBones games? Wouldn't be much of a challenge then IMO. Also, I'm still against using bones as a challenge.

And D made my head hurt D:
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Malek Deneith on December 22, 2007, 03:25
So about the option C) in AoBones... What if I first picked Reloader and then Shottyman, that'd make me a Sergeant, right? But what if I, later, also picked Brute and Berserker, and then died? What'd I become then?
We'd have to work out some table of priorities, or it would choose at random between possible choices

Does A only apply in AoBones games? Wouldn't be much of a challenge then IMO. Also, I'm still against using bones as a challenge.
A and B are both used w/o any challenges
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ReaCto on December 24, 2007, 11:56
Angel of Kornel Kisielewicz - Before you play, wite the game fo yourself :-)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Silhar on December 30, 2007, 04:43
LOL ! :D
Title: New Challenge: Curiosity
Post by: 007bistromath on January 04, 2008, 03:36
You cannot take the stairs unless you've seen the whole map. Might cause some trouble with cave levels, so I'd say put a computer map on each level for this challenge.
Title: Re: New Challenge: Curiosity
Post by: Malek Deneith on January 04, 2008, 05:00
There is a topic for challenges... and a stickied one/me smites and merges topics
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: 007bistromath on January 04, 2008, 05:37
TBH, I never look in here because it's a huge confused mess, as suggestion category megathreads tend to be.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: DaEezT on January 05, 2008, 13:10
Just had an idea: Angel of Levers
The level exits don't exist when you enter the level, instead you have to pull a specific lever to make it appear. The same goes for special level exits (separate levers for both exit). In addition Intuition doesn't work on levers and the number of levers on each level is higher than in normal games and increases as you dive deeper into Phobos.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: 007bistromath on January 06, 2008, 03:39
If you had to do that challenge in order to unlock anything, I'd quit playing the game. It's ridiculous. Levers are absolutely not worth pulling without Intuition. The stuff they do is too dangerous, and the good ones don't show up often enough. It's actually much worse than in the original, I've thought that's needed a fix for a long time. See my "tying map features to loot" thread.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: DaEezT on January 06, 2008, 03:41
If you had to do that challenge in order to unlock anything, I'd quit playing the game. It's ridiculous.

Awww, a bit of gambling never hurt anyone ;p
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: 007bistromath on January 06, 2008, 03:41
See edit. That's not a bit of gambling, that's Russian roulette with four chambers loaded.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: RickVoid on January 08, 2008, 14:28
This isn't an idea for a challenge mode, per-se, but I think it would be cool if, since we have all of these new unique items, if there was a way to earn them through challenges. Someone mentioned before the Call of Duty 4 level-up system, and haveing played that game I thought the challenge ideas were fantastic.

So, say you implement a set of Pistol, Shotgun (all three types counted), Chaingun, Plasma Weapons (Rifle and BFG), and Melee Weapon challenges. Each would have three levels of proficiency, based on kills, and at the max level (a rediculous amount of kills) you get access to a special version of the weapon at start. These weapons would be chosen from a list, and runs using those weapons wouldn't get saved to player.dat. Here's what I imagine they'd look like:

Pistol Mastery: Rank- Novice
       - Kill 200 Former Humans with a Pistol
       - Kill 100 Imps with a Pistol

Shotgun Mastery: Rank- Intermediate
       - Kill 100 Hell Knights with a Shotgun
       - Kill 50 Barons of Hell with a Shotgun

Chaingun Mastery: Rank- Expert
       - Kill 50 Spider Masterminds (snerk) with a Chaingun
       - Kill 50 CyberDemons with a Chaingun

Melee Mastery: Rank- Master
       - You have access to the Power Sword, Daemon's Bane

Obviously some work would be needed to make it "balanced", but I think it'd be a fun reward for players who persevere.

*Puts on Flame-retardant suit*
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Conker on January 08, 2008, 15:17
This isn't an idea for a challenge mode, per-se, but I think it would be cool if, since we have all of these new unique items, if there was a way to earn them through challenges. Someone mentioned before the Call of Duty 4 level-up system, and haveing played that game I thought the challenge ideas were fantastic.

So, say you implement a set of Pistol, Shotgun (all three types counted), Chaingun, Plasma Weapons (Rifle and BFG), and Melee Weapon challenges. Each would have three levels of proficiency, based on kills, and at the max level (a rediculous amount of kills) you get access to a special version of the weapon at start. These weapons would be chosen from a list, and runs using those weapons wouldn't get saved to player.dat. Here's what I imagine they'd look like:

Pistol Mastery: Rank- Novice
       - Kill 200 Former Humans with a Pistol
       - Kill 100 Imps with a Pistol

Shotgun Mastery: Rank- Intermediate
       - Kill 100 Hell Knights with a Shotgun
       - Kill 50 Barons of Hell with a Shotgun

Chaingun Mastery: Rank- Expert
       - Kill 50 Spider Masterminds (snerk) with a Chaingun
       - Kill 50 CyberDemons with a Chaingun

Melee Mastery: Rank- Master
       - You have access to the Power Sword, Daemon's Bane

Obviously some work would be needed to make it "balanced", but I think it'd be a fun reward for players who persevere.

*Puts on Flame-retardant suit*

The problem with this, and many other game designs (e.g. Resident Evil 2), is that if to unlock the bonus you're required to beat the game, then a bonus making it easier for you to beat the game is pointless.

I'd suggest, if this is implemented, that you replace the reward of the special weapon with a challenge where you start with the special weapon (and the difficulty is then appropriately scaled).

Also, I agree with 007bistromath regarding the lever challenge.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aerton on January 10, 2008, 04:59
And the winner is
Quote
[Wed 08:12] <Malek Deneith> Angel of WHAT... THE... FUCK???
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on January 10, 2008, 05:07
ROTFL! :D
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Karry on January 10, 2008, 07:26
Quote
If you had to do that challenge in order to unlock anything, I'd quit playing the game. It's ridiculous.
Its ridiculous enough with the AoB requirements in place, how can you make it even more ridiculous than that ? I fail at imagining that.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Rola on January 10, 2008, 08:23
While many of the challenge ideas sound more like a forum joke (Angel of Pacifism - what fun is to launch a shooter-game and NOT shoot any monsters?) I really like the idea of Angel of Vampirism. With careful ballancing the awarded HP-gain per monster (the badder they are, the more you get healed) this could be actually playable and fun.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on January 10, 2008, 08:53
Angel of Pacifism is no joke, see here (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?topic=633.0) ;). Moreover it made it into the beta already ^_^.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Rola on January 10, 2008, 10:01
Yeah, but let's be frank: who's gonna play it apart from Blade? How many people out of the bunch who regularly play DoomRL? If Blade wasn't a privileged user and an expert DoomRL player I doubt you'd waste your coding time on this.
Challenge modes should not only be challenging (ie: difficult to complete) but also entertaining. This is not Pontifex, Transport Tycoon or SimCity, I want to kill things, even if they look like ordinary colored letters! Such challenge would be fun for, let's say, one special game level, but I won't be wasting my time attempting to complete the whole game while not killing anything.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Conker on January 10, 2008, 13:44
Yeah, but let's be frank: who's gonna play it apart from Blade? How many people out of the bunch who regularly play DoomRL? If Blade wasn't a privileged user and an expert DoomRL player I doubt you'd waste your coding time on this.
Challenge modes should not only be challenging (ie: difficult to complete) but also entertaining. This is not Pontifex, Transport Tycoon or SimCity, I want to kill things, even if they look like ordinary colored letters! Such challenge would be fun for, let's say, one special game level, but I won't be wasting my time attempting to complete the whole game while not killing anything.

Much as I hate to admit it, I think you might be right. It seems more potentially frustrating than potentially fun. But I'm willing to try it first before I cast my die, as it were.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on January 10, 2008, 23:04
A couple of points:
a) Challenges are meant to be challenges -- each next challenge difficulty is meant to make you go "WTF? Now I need to do this???".
b) I want the game to have always somethibng higher to aim at, always something to achieve still.
c) Coding in AoPacifism took 5 minutes with the new challenge coding system :P.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Karry on January 11, 2008, 01:57
Quote
each next challenge difficulty is meant to make you go "WTF? Now I need to do this???".
Wrong thinking. I dont think there is a single person today that thinks extra challenge should be obligatory. I dont want to HAVE to do this, i may WANT to do it, but it does not have to be FORCED on me, as it is right now.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on January 11, 2008, 02:01
Who forces you to do it? The challenge is not needed to unlock anything.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Karry on January 11, 2008, 02:50
Is that so ? Then how to i unlock the Nightmare difficulty ?
And what exactly have i done to unlock Ultra-Violence ? Exactly, the challenges.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on January 11, 2008, 03:07
And you need to get to level 25 to see the Cyberdemon -- isn't that unfair?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Karry on January 11, 2008, 03:43
Dont play a fool, the difficulty raises but the rules stay the same. The challenges change the rules. I could care less about the stupidity of AoB, i want to shoot stuff, not melee it, and yet - i am forced to play it to unlock higher difficulties.

The challenges should be separated from the main game. Let them unlock eaach other or something.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Malek Deneith on January 11, 2008, 05:09
Seems you are alone here... I see none other having problems with challenges opening difficulties. And to be honest, unlocking UV doesn't require anything hard - you can just stair run though the challenges needed to get that. As for N! if you can't workout things needed to unlock that one you're probably not ready for N! anyway.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Karry on January 11, 2008, 05:29
Quote
Seems you are alone here...
Because you said so ?

Quote
As for N! if you can't workout things needed to unlock that one you're probably not ready for N! anyway.
Yet another one who just refuses to understand, that beating melee does not have anything to do with shooting meaner monsters.

Fine, be idiots, i dont care. Curse me for trying to make the game better and more accessible.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Malek Deneith on January 11, 2008, 05:40
Because you said so ?

No, because no-one else seems to have supported your claim.

Yet another one who just refuses to understand, that beating melee does not have anything to do with shooting meaner monsters.
You DON'T have to beat AoB to unlock anything... to get to UV you need only to venture FIVE goddamn levels, which can be accomplished by RUNNING past monsters withpout caring to fight them. Calling people idiots won't help the argument. Oh and about making the game "better" - AoB was added because people wanted to play melee games and approved the idea of such challenge.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on January 11, 2008, 06:26
Curse me for trying to make the game better and more accessible.
To be honest, to me it seems that you're just trying to be a jerk ;].

And seriously, if you're trying to make an argument, use arguments, and refrain from offending statements.

Nightmare is a Challenge mode -- it changes the rules. So as you said yourself, let them unlock each other. As for UV, I might take the argument and unlock it by default.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Rola on January 15, 2008, 10:08
c) Coding in AoPacifism took 5 minutes with the new challenge coding system :P.
So how about this Vampirism thingie? Seriously, it would be a bit like your beloved Berserk! - the lower HP you have the greater is your need to kill! xD
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on January 15, 2008, 10:32
As soon as the API is publicized you will be able to code it in in 5 minutes without prior programming knowledge xP.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Chamber on February 01, 2008, 06:04
Thought of one - Angel of Scavenging.  You cannot reload weapons, so whenever one is empty, you just throw it away and look for a new one. 

I'm not sure if overloading should still work.  Either way, it means that picking up ammo will be unnecessary.  Instead, picking up multiple guns of the same type will be required.  There are tonnes of lower level weapons just lying around, so that won't be a problem.  There are even kindly former commandos handy to provide multiple plasma rifles.  Rocket launchers and BFGs will be much harder to recoup. 

Perhaps generate more weapon drops to make things fair?

Difficulty - MEDIUM.  If all else fails, that chainsaw will still go on forever.

And on a side-note, customisable challenge modes sound like fun.  Long live the promised API!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Dawgas on February 07, 2008, 20:22
Angel of Scavenging. 

Difficulty - MEDIUM

Woah there champ, I think you meant HARD.


oh, and here, have more challenges (for the hell of it)

Angel of Giblification (new starting challenge - managing to beat this unlocks everything.. You'll have demonstrated REAL SKILL to win)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Angel of Angels (have to beat every challenge on Nightmare! (yes even darkness), or beat Angel of Giblification, if implemented)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Are these even possible to beat... WHO KNOWS... they'll probably make it in though :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Potman on February 07, 2008, 23:58
I think I could take 'em.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Conker on February 08, 2008, 04:55
Nice ideas, Dawgas. Original at least. But the first one I think would be (slightly) easier than you predict. The second... We can't have *that guy* as a regular monster, imagine packs of him. It makes my brain melt.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Dawgas on February 08, 2008, 14:34
Nice ideas, Dawgas. Original at least. But the first one I think would be (slightly) easier than you predict. The second... We can't have *that guy* as a regular monster, imagine packs of him. It makes my brain melt.

Thanks, I don't think so, and if the GIBLIFICATION challenge is too easy, get rid of the free traits then.

Also, Angel of Angels is SUPPOSED to be hard. Having packs of Cyberdemons is kinda the point... At least it's better than ARCHVILES EVERYWHERE LOL

also...

Angel of Insanity
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Malek Deneith on February 08, 2008, 16:26
Archviles can't rez other Archviles.... so hard but not as insanely as you predict. Besides IMO it's not enough to make "OMG Blade+20 hardness level" challenges - the catch is to make a challenge that is catches players interest somehow. For example Ao100 is generally considered quite easy, but it's played by lots of pople because of fun factor involved.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Potman on February 09, 2008, 01:08
Angel of Escape, perhaps? I mean, there was once a challenge idea that'd make you escape hell instead of entering it. Well, in my idea, you'd first descend to the deepest bowels of oblivion, kill CD (and maybe JC), and then must also get back up. All the levels, along with possible special levels, will be generated from the scratch, and there's also another CD waiting for you in the hangar level, whom you must also kill. (If you blow him with a nuke while invincible, you'll get to fight Kornel).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on February 09, 2008, 07:41
Why do all of you guys want' to kill me so badly D:
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Xael on February 09, 2008, 10:23
I came up with a new idea: what do you think of unchallanges? The game is suppose to be all about entertainment, right? So we can make modes in which gameplay is easier in some unusual way. These modes can mirror the challanges ( and they should also be unlocked by beating challanges). For example:

X of carnage - You are immune to splash damage. You also start with a rocket launcher and  plenty of rockets. Rockets and BFG blasts do more damage. Also more enemies to fry.

X of berserk - You are very fast, strong and healthy. Your damage in hand-to-hand combat is amplified, and you burst into rage a lot. (a mirror of the angel of berserk).

X of burden: You have unlimited inventory (or maybe you have 20 slots, but ammo and items stack indefenitely. A mirror of the AoLt).

Also I have a challange idea:

Angel of something:

Everyone in the game (both you and monsters) have only one hp (copied directly from DMC).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Dawgas on February 09, 2008, 14:27
Why do all of you guys want' to kill me so badly D:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on February 09, 2008, 17:05
Why do all of you guys want' to kill me so badly D:

Add several more AVs into Hell's Armory(and other places too, they are so nice and cute and have so cool soundbindings, so let's use them on every level!), and i too will vote "yay" for challenge where you need to kill Kornel to win.))
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Dawgas on February 09, 2008, 19:15
I KNOW! LETS PUT ARCHVILES ON THE FIRST LEVEL TOO LOL
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Potman on February 10, 2008, 01:05
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Conker on February 15, 2008, 01:34
Angel of Silence - Sound effects are disabled (no 'Ah, that cry of pain means there's a Baron somewhere over there where I fired my rocket launcher' anymore). Difficulty: Easy
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Solarn on February 22, 2008, 15:35
Hehe... and the Former Snorbs would horde Blue Armors and Medkits without using them =p
Former Solarns would hog chainguns and 10mm ammo and mull endlessly over what to drop to make space for another medkit or weapon mod. Oh, and they would fire down corridors from around the corner. With a chaingun.

Angel of Scavenging. 

Difficulty - MEDIUM

Woah there champ, I think you meant HARD.
If AoB is Medium, then so should be that one. I have nothing against AoB and I WILL GET THROUGH MORE THAN THREE LEVELS OF IT ONE DAY I SWEAR, but Angel of Scavenging sounds actually easier than it.

If you had to do that challenge in order to unlock anything, I'd quit playing the game. It's ridiculous. Levers are absolutely not worth pulling without Intuition. The stuff they do is too dangerous, and the good ones don't show up often enough. It's actually much worse than in the original, I've thought that's needed a fix for a long time. See my "tying map features to loot" thread.
I always pull levers... maybe that's why I always die before Cybie. Well, actually, no, that's because I keep forgetting which level exits to the Mortuary and keep entering the red staircase on Hell lvl7.

I can't help it, it might be a monster-spawning lever! (almost) Free XP!

Angel of Silence - Sound effects are disabled (no 'Ah, that cry of pain means there's a Baron somewhere over there where I fired my rocket launcher' anymore). Difficulty: Easy
The only level where I would dare to use a rocket launcher against a Baron is The Wall. Otherwise, I'd fear destroying loot too much. Now, Arachnotrons and Archviles, that's another story. Plasma that eats through armor like something that eats through armor very quickly and rez ability take priority over loot.

Oh, and so I'm not simply quoting the entire thread from the start, here's a challenge idea:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh, also this is my first post. Please be gentle with me. *bows*
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Chamber on February 29, 2008, 13:09
I like the idea.  It seems to me that the only real reason to include the advanced weapon is due to the Arch-Vile's high power.  Add a line of code that severly reduces its HP for the first few levels, and it will be a great tactical challenge.

There is one problem, though.  As of last version, killing monsters revived by the Arch-Vile does not grant the player experience.  So you'd have to make an exception for this challenge, or win the game with only 24*Arch-Vile Experience Worth points. 

How about Angel of the Living Dead for a title?

Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Potman on March 01, 2008, 01:49
Angel of Revenge: Whenever you kill a monster, all other monsters in its immediate vicinity will gain one level either in TaN, Hellrunner, or SoaB, to the maximum of three. You kill three monsters around that poor former human, and he goes "Nooo! You killed my friends! Reveenge!" and then he has two in SoaB and one in TaN, or vice versa, or just three in TaN or one in each skill or something.

This will make The Wall and City of Skulls pretty painful.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Solarn on March 27, 2008, 08:22
I like the idea.  It seems to me that the only real reason to include the advanced weapon is due to the Arch-Vile's high power.  Add a line of code that severly reduces its HP for the first few levels, and it will be a great tactical challenge.

There is one problem, though.  As of last version, killing monsters revived by the Arch-Vile does not grant the player experience.  So you'd have to make an exception for this challenge, or win the game with only 24*Arch-Vile Experience Worth points. 

How about Angel of the Living Dead for a title?


Hmm... reducing the Viles' HP for the first few levels (or rather, gradually increasing it as you go deeper) sounds like a good idea and makes it unnecessary to put a potentially overpowered weapon on the first level.

Both ways of going about XP have their merits. Getting XP from revived monsters for this challenge would reduce difficulty to manageable, but could be abused to get free XP by simply not killing the Vile as it resurrects the monsters again and again. And I have no idea if there is a way to only award XP for monsters after their first resurrection. On the other hand, only getting XP for the Viles would push the challenge beyond Very Hard difficulty, as you'd only be level 4 or maybe 5 by the time Arachnotrons and hordes of Barons and Mancubi (often together) started showing up. But it would be great for people who like that kind of challenge.

Angel of the Living Dead is an awesome name.

@Potman: That sounds pretty cool. And yeah, especially City of Skulls would make you bleed in that mode, since The Wall at least has a finite number of enemies that you can pick off one by one if you're crafty enough.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Chris_Lv255 on April 10, 2008, 16:39
Angel of Fools - This challenge commemorates April the First - the message "You feel relatively safe now" is no longer a good indicator of you being alone on the level...

25% of the message being accurate.

25% of the time, there will still be a monster or two lurking around. "You feel like a fool for not noticing the straggler(s)."

50% of the time, if the stairs are not in your line of sight, a horde of monsters will be spawned around it; if it is in your line of sight, the stair will have an additional 25% chance of teleporting you a certain distance from the stairs and spawning the horde of nasties around it.
messages:
"Surprise!" You were out of Line-of-sight of the downstair and found it surrounded by nasties.
"He was made a fool! (mortem)" You were killed by the nasties that spawned around the stairs.
"April's Fool has come and gone, you're the fools and I am none!" You killed the nasties around the stairs before going down it.
"You feel foolish for not noticing their presence." You fled down the stairs without killing the surprise nasties.
"You hear maniacal laughter as you are pulled in a non-existing direction." You were in line-of-sight of the stairs, and were forcefully teleported as nasties were spawned.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Potman on April 10, 2008, 23:17
I think that should only happen in April Fools, instead of being its own challenge.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Sachiko on April 17, 2008, 11:54
Hmm, the idea of the April Fool's day nasty surprise looks good. Reminds me of ADOM, where depending on which day you create a character, certain things can happen to you.

Maybe there should also be a "Creator's Day" feature where, if you start the game on Kornel's Birthday, you get a bonus.

Of course, starting the game on other days, like, for example, a Friday the 13th, or a day with a day number that ends in 6 (Catch the reference!), you get penalties, like being weaker, needing more XP to get a new trait, demons being stronger or respawning even while not on Nightmare Difficulty, etc.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ParaSait on April 17, 2008, 14:51
Yeah, reminds me of "7 days a skeptic", If you complete the game on the birthday of the creator, there is an extra day with a funny alternative ending.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Sachiko on April 18, 2008, 11:08
*Chuckle*

7 days a skeptic... Yeah, I remember it!

Respect to new challenges, which is what this suggestion is for, I have a new one myself...

-Angel of Bloodlust-

Your character is infused with a fragment of the spirit of Khorne, God of Blood. Due to this, you must taste blood every once in a while, or you will die!

If you stop being splashed in blood for a while, your health will begin degrading until you die.
However, as a counterweight, all of your attacks now do a lot more damage, and berserker packs last double the time.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ParaSait on April 18, 2008, 11:20
Good suggestion. This one should be implemented and I don't think it's very hard to implement either.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Potman on April 18, 2008, 13:56
Another Chaos challenge!

-Angel of Plague-

A-CHOO! You have caught some nasty case of cold from the chilling plains of Mars! It's sapping your life pretty quick, but hey, at least you can try and give it to your enemies as well. Plus the horrible agony of the disease has made you pretty much immune to any kind of pain!

You start the game with two extra points in Ironman. Meanwhile, your hit points decay constantly, as if you were boosted all the time - this can eventually kill you. The upside is, any enemy coming too close to you (two spaces or so) will catch the disease as well, and will spread it around themselves, even after they die! Badass will slow down the decay for you, though never compeletely stop it - and it will also increase the speed the enemies will lose HP from it.

That's halfway done. Two more to go.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Chris_Lv255 on April 26, 2008, 05:25
Yay, a Former Doomguy challenge!

Angel of Fallen Heros
You will often face the tortured souls of brave warriors who unsuccessfully tried to cleanse Hell of Evil before. They are well armed and intelligent, and will use what they find against you. Your task is to free them from their suffering as you attempt to do what they couldn't. -more-

This challenge makes use of your post mortems after you have quite a few. Initially, a set of about 16 pre-generated "Fallen Heros" will be generated, with pre-determined levels and random weapons/armor/equipment. They are also represented by the @ sign, which will be discoloured when compared to you. They are constrained by ammo, but are also capable of picking up and changing weapons and armor.

These Fallen will only spawn after "you feel relatively safe..." with the additional remark, "but suddenly, you feel a sense of pity mixed with dread as a shambling figure approaches..."

After you accumulate at least 16 post-mortems of death-files (Victorious marines will not be used!), these mortems will replace the pregenerated Fallen Heros. They will carry up to 6 items chosen at semi-random from their death inventory - 1 weapon + 1 slot of matching ammo, 1 suit of armor (if applicable), and 3 slots of randomly selected items. Beware a Fallen Hero armed with a BFG or a Unique that they held while they died!

The phrase "You feel like the Fallen Hero is finally at peace..." will display when you slay them and put them out of their misery.

The message "He was forced to join the ranks of the Fallen Heros!" will display if you are killed by one of these guys.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on April 26, 2008, 06:45
Yay, a Former Doomguy challenge!

Angel of Fallen Heros

Ummm... Do you have any idea what the poll in this thread is about ;) ?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Norrock on April 27, 2008, 21:03
I vote for Angel of Hallucinations, Angel of Nukes, Angel of Shotguns, Angel of Death.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: MegaMad on April 27, 2008, 21:10
I vote for Angel of Hallucinations, Angel of Nukes, Angel of Shotguns, Angel of Death.
The voting is already finished for now.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Norrock on April 28, 2008, 17:11
But I want them D:
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: MegaMad on April 28, 2008, 21:23
But I want them D:
Well... too bad.

Also here's a challenge i could think of.

Angel of Phasing

At the start of the game the 2 small med-pack are replaced with 2 phase device and the other 2 small med-pack are at the entrence of phobo surface. There's is a small chance that you can get phased for no reason which can be annoying. 25% of the small med-packs becoming phase device and 10% of the large med-pack becoming homing phase device at the start of the level and there are teleporters at every level and more of them and more phase device and homing phase device are generated. Former captains and commandos have a phase device on them. Hellspawns(including the Cyberdemon but not JC and AOD) can phase around the level once and items can phase randomly across the level.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Potman on April 29, 2008, 07:50
Angel of Demolitions:

Like making things go boom? Like seeing your enemies explode in a thousands of pieces? Then this challenge is for you! You start with a rocket launcher - and some ammo - but can't use any other kinds of weapons - apart from the unique rocket launchers, of course, Anti-Freak Jackal, and the Trigun's Angel Arm special ability.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Dakin on April 29, 2008, 10:56
Angel of control

This challenge mode allows you to control whatever body you like. You may enter the body of slain enemy, getting it's strengths and weaknesses, like HP, armor, abilities, etc. You retain inventory, however can't use weapons, if the body doesn't allow too, except the innate weapons. Your traits apply.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Potman on April 29, 2008, 12:12
As a weakness, you shouldn't be able to use any of your own weapons, either. Even in your own body.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: dimi1205 on May 01, 2008, 10:59
Angel of Flood
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Jagazaar on May 31, 2008, 05:01
In reference to this thread (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?topic=1315.0),

Angel of Confrontation

Pros: Less normal enemies, more/better items

Cons: Every floor has either a unique enemy (every floor except the 1st, special and boss floors), or a boss (every 5th floor)

The unique monster is of a type normally spawned by that floor, and is given bonuses to certain attributes, and/or a new ability (eg. former humans with dualgunner, imps with larger fireball explode radius, etc). Naturally, they give better XP than normal monsters (helps to offset the lower enemy count).

Boss floors are the same every time.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Solarn on June 18, 2008, 12:30
Fools, Flood and Confrontation all sound like wonderful ideas. I especially like the way Angel of Flood makes the entire game a lot more tactical. Sure, you have boots and acid isn't that damaging when compared to lava, but if you run around willy-nilly backtracking all the time like most people do in normal modes, you'll pretty soon make the entire level untraverseable for yourself, so you'd need to watch where your step and pay close attention to the paths you've travelled before. The water flood and wall demolition levers would become a lot more useful in this challenge.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ParaSait on June 26, 2008, 08:16
Angel of Myopia:
Difficulty: HARD

Description: "Before you entered Hell, you were so anxious that you've forgotten your glasses! It's not going to be easy without..."

Effect: Your FOV is reduced by 50%.


Angel of Necromancy:
Difficulty: BLADE

Description: "You are not a gunhero. Though you ARE accepted in a team of UAC marines bcause of your powelful talent. You have the power that makes Archviles Archviles. You are can resurrect anything that lived before. It's time to fight hell with its own weapons!"

Effect: You can't fight by yourself and you start off with a small legion of 3 shotguys that are on your side, who follow you and fight for you. If you find a dead body, you can resurrect him like an Archvile, at the cost of some HP (the stronger the monster, the more HP). Any resurrected monster by an Archvile that is one your side, is on your side!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Passionario on June 26, 2008, 16:36
Angel of Monopoly

You are a high-ranking UAC official, travelling to Phobos on a surprise inspection trip disguised as a common marine. The monsters of Hell will be no match for your business instinct!

Pros: As a VIP of sorts, you start with a suit of red armor.

Cons:
1) Being a greedy bastard, you can't use the drop command ("You didn't get where you are by giving out things for FREE!")
2) For the same reason, you can't shoot while aiming at things other than monsters - that is, walls, doors, barrels and empty spaces. You *can* hit them if they happen to be in the way, but the intended target must be a monster ("That would be a waste of precious UAC resources!")
3) Since you aren't an actual Marine, you don't get to pick a starting trait - while you may learn things on the field of battle, you lack initial basic training.
4) Years of corporate intrigue instilled you with deep paranoia. You never receive the 'relatively safe' message.

------------

Angel of Telefrag

Dead monsters leave transporter globes (the stationary auto-teleport kind) instead of corpses. Mortuary is still corpse-strewn, though.

------------

Angel of Style

You refuse to blend in with the common herd.

Pros: You start with a randomly chosen weapon mod.
Cons: You can't shoot with unmodded nonunique weapons. Equipping unmodded nonqunique armor/boots provides no protection.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ParaSait on June 26, 2008, 16:55
Passionario, wouldn't a better name for challenge 1 be "Angel of Business" or "Angel of Greed"?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Chynn on July 02, 2008, 09:16
But I want them D:
Well... too bad.

Also here's a challenge i could think of.

Angel of Phasing

At the start of the game the 2 small med-pack are replaced with 2 phase device and the other 2 small med-pack are at the entrence of phobo surface. There's is a small chance that you can get phased for no reason which can be annoying. 25% of the small med-packs becoming phase device and 10% of the large med-pack becoming homing phase device at the start of the level and there are teleporters at every level and more of them and more phase device and homing phase device are generated. Former captains and commandos have a phase device on them. Hellspawns(including the Cyberdemon but not JC and AOD) can phase around the level once and items can phase randomly across the level.
I'd imagine it'd be more of a challenge/frustration by replacing phase devices altogether with a small percentage chance (like 1%) of random phasing while moving and a larger chance of it happening when hit in combat (like 25%). On harder modes, your shots would have a chance of "phasing through" your targets (including walls), causing no harm to them while hitting whatever is behind them.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Darkwaterotter on July 11, 2008, 13:54
I have an idea for a challenge mode
Angel of Unloading
all ammo you find is in a weapon already so no random ammo strewn about the level
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Potman on July 12, 2008, 01:19
There'd have to be a lot more weapons lying around.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ParaSait on July 12, 2008, 13:44
... Or maybe challenge where every item you pick up gets automatically destroyed after a certain time?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: TFoN on July 12, 2008, 18:52
I liked Angel of Silence. The idea scares the hell out of me (reminded me of how much I count on it), but that's a good thing :)


Now, a suggestion of my own. It's more a mod than it is a challenge, considering the slight alteration to storyline, and balance-risky pros and cons. I'm writing this more out of amusement.

Angel of Hell

UAC? Who the hell is that? The closest you got to being a space marine was beating one senseless in a bar fight. You're here on a psychopathic joyride - think of a toned-down, human version of Lobo. Indeed, you're the very worst of the infamous Hell's Angels.

Pros: you're mean - damn mean. You start with a +2 to each damage and armor and 20 more hit points. Additionally, you cause 6 bonus damage with the chainsaw, or any other brutal melee weapon (therefore, LS not included - cheesy mythical glowing pansy-weapon that it is. Neither is the measly knife. If only you had a crowbar...).

Cons: you're also completely lacking in training, or meaningful purpose, resulting in a -3 tohit. Well, not quite without purpose - you're wholly intent on bashing as many demon skulls in as possible (as a token of sheer badassness), all the while enjoying this site-seeing parade through the Abyss. You must kill any demon you face, so once you see one, you can't voluntarily let it leave your sight until it's dead, dead, dead. You also can't avoid any special level once you've seen the stairs to it - you can leave it for a while, but that becomes the only way down.
Last but not least, there is one thing you must always care for above all else - if you lose you're bike, which appears wherever you enter a new level, you collapse in tears, and give in to eternal grief. Boo-fucking-hoo. Naturally, all of hell's minions gravitate towards this awesome beacon of chaos and destruction.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ParaSait on July 28, 2008, 11:53
Angel of Lost Souls (HARD)

"In the past, you have brutally taken the lives of so many creatures. Their revenge will be sweet..."

There are no regular monsters and every level is filled to the top with lost souls. And I really mean 20% of all tiles or even more! They even appear in special levels. In later levels, there will also start appearing loads of pain elementals. And the end though, there will be the regular Cyberdemon. The good thing about this challenge is that you start of with a shotgun instead of a pistol!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: nerdatron on August 24, 2008, 07:50
Angel of Halo (medium):
You can't carry weapons in your inventory (only in your hand and prepared slot).
Maybe, you have a regenerating shield instead of armor (and can't carry medkits either).

Angel of Quad Damage (v.hard):
You do 4x damage to all enemies, and they do 4x damage to you. (Not sure if the 4x damage should apply before or after armor.)
Certain to be a very frustrating, but fun challenge.

Angel of the Coliseum (hard):
EVERY level is an arena - good luck, you're gonna need it.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on August 24, 2008, 08:36
Angel of Quad Damage (v.hard):
You do 4x damage to all enemies, and they do 4x damage to you. (Not sure if the 4x damage should apply before or after armor.)
Certain to be a very frustrating, but fun challenge.

Easy challenge. Just shoot everything before they shoot you. Cat's Eye or Intuition is a must-have.

The other two - i like them.)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ParaSait on August 24, 2008, 08:52
You know, very nice for this game would be a survival mode. You are spawned in 1 level, and after a certain amount of time, a number of monsters is spawned and you need to survive as long as possible.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Visalos on August 30, 2008, 01:26
Angel of False Security:

A few levels into the game, once you have killed the final monster, at least one V spawns randomly (or not-so-randomly, perhaps by the stairs or the highest concentration of corpses, or halfway between), intent on restoring the demonic ranks and removing the final obstacle to Hell's ascendancy (oh shit that's us!). Difficulty: Medium.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Visalos on August 30, 2008, 01:37
Also, I don't remember where I saw it on here, but I really like the Angel of Imp challenge. Maybe an evolution every few levels a la Pokemon or Zerg into a higher demonic form, with more power and even (gasp!) the ability to use items! Even if one were an imp the whole time, steadily gaining in power yet uable to pickup items or use weapons, that would be a blast. Berserk packs, health globes, supercharge, etc. would still work. Remove wall-destruction from (your)higher demon's energy attack, so you still need a rocket launcher to get through The Wall.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on October 19, 2008, 11:36
Maybe, there can be something like Angel of Immunity, avarded for getting Cyberdemon rank, where monsters spawn and you are immortal:).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Sachiko on October 20, 2008, 12:42
Immortality? In DoomRL? HERESY!!!

Seriously, Challenges are supposed to be challenges, not super-easy walks by the park where you unload your frustration on the demons while you don't take damage.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on October 20, 2008, 13:17
Immortality? In DoomRL? HERESY!!!

Seriously, Challenges are supposed to be challenges, not super-easy walks by the park where you unload your frustration on the demons while you don't take damage.

But the Cyberdemon rank is very hard to get, and there must be SOME reward for getting this. Maybe, this can be done as another level of difficulty, or something else.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on October 26, 2008, 11:46
What about next:
Angel of Blindness - your LOS is decreased to 2*2 square.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Iferrly on November 07, 2008, 15:00
Angel of Blindness is quite okay, but that can be developed in the AoD challenge
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on November 16, 2008, 09:15
So better one:
Angel of Oracle:
You're the allmighty oracle from the past. You're blind, but you can see monsters as if you'd have a Intuition 3. Instead of it, gods protect you and give you +5 HP each level(option). And you start with chaingun(it isn't hard to blindshoot with it).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on November 16, 2008, 09:34
So better one:
Angel of Oracle:
You're the allmighty oracle from the past. You're blind, but you can see monsters as if you'd have a Intuition 3. Instead of it, gods protect you and give you +5 HP each level(option). And you start with chaingun(it isn't hard to blindshoot with it).

I like that. But it would be better if such Oracle could sense powerups, in other words, he should possess the full power of the Intuition(3). But imho there should be no chaingun from the start. Maybe EagleEye*2 to help him to hit emenies with pistol.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on November 16, 2008, 10:28
Maybe it could be fun that Oracle is walking with Hell Staff.
So better one:
Angel of Oracle:
You're the allmighty oracle from the past. You're blind, but you can see monsters as if you'd have a Intuition 3. Instead of it, gods protect you and give you +5 HP each level(option). And you start with chaingun(it isn't hard to blindshoot with it).

I like that. But it would be better if such Oracle could sense powerups, in other words, he should possess the full power of the Intuition(3). But imho there should be no chaingun from the start. Maybe EagleEye*2 to help him to hit emenies with pistol.
First, for what do you need to sence power-ups. Second, if he's blind,  it's not the fact he couldn't use shootgun or some better weapon.
PS:Like quoting the quotes?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on November 16, 2008, 11:25

I like that. But it would be better if such Oracle could sense powerups, in other words, he should possess the full power of the Intuition(3). But imho there should be no chaingun from the start. Maybe EagleEye*2 to help him to hit emenies with pistol.
First, for what do you need to sence power-ups. Second, if he's blind,  it's not the fact he couldn't use shootgun or some better weapon.
PS:Like quoting the quotes?
[/quote]

He's an Oracle, after all. If he senses the presence of monsters, it's likely that he can sense the energy from the powerups. And he could use some better weapon, he just need to find them (messages about what's lying on current floor tile should still appear, of course).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on November 28, 2008, 09:00
Another one:
Angel of Crimsonland:
You are not playing Doom now. Because every spawned level is and arena!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Sachiko on November 30, 2008, 04:18
I c wat you did thar, ZZ.

That challenge should get some tweaks. Like, for example, DoomGuy always starting each level with just one weapon, then getting new ones from fallen enemies.

And only being able to continue the level after all monsters had been destroyed.

And of course, no special levels, except Cybie's, which is an arena already, anyways.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Ischaldirh on December 07, 2008, 23:19
Angel of Hatred

You hate being here. You hate everything and everyone around you. Your hatred gnaws at you night and day, like a leech sucking at your very soul. You would go insane were it not for the killing; the sight of their blood soothes your tortured, hate-filled mind.

Pros: You gain life equal to 5% of the damage you deal, +0.5% per level gained. (Cumulative, so if you deal 10 damage in one attack and 10 damage in the next attack you would gain 1 life after the second attack.)

Cons: You lose life at a rate of 1 HP every 20 seconds, -1 second per level gained.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Captain Trek on December 11, 2008, 08:25
Just going back for a moment to one of the challenges Malek put in his poll (where Angel of D&D and Angel of Nukes, which I can only assume later became Angel of Red Alert, won out), specifically this one...

Quote
Angel of Hallucinations
The game randomly assigns a new 'psychadellic' monkier (and new color/symbol) to every monster, weapon, special level, etc., at the beginning of the game.  You have no way of knowing what a 'monkey launcher' is until you fire it (is it the BFG or an advanced pistol?), and the 'menacing clown' (represented by a bright yellow c) might be the Cyberdemon, a Baron of Hell, or a former human.

There are two problems I can seewith this... This first is that experienced (or even relatively inexperienced) players are going to know what many monsters and items are based purely on thier location... No player in his right mind is going to mistake that BFG in the Halls of Carnage for anything else, even if it isn't called a BFG 9000 in his inventory slot, he'd just have to remember that it was called the "shit slinging uber gun" or whatever, so that he doesn't confuse it with the "uber water gun of uber uberness" that he got off the "super ninja pirate monkey" that turned out to be a former commando and is actually a plasma rifle...

The other problem (which you might have guessed from reading the above paragraph) is that it could easily get too silly... One could easily chock such a mode full of inane pop culture referrences and other facepalm enducing horrors and I'd rather not have to be constantly shutting my eyes to stop them from rolling straight out of their sockets, thanks... :)

With that out of the way, here's a couple I came up with...


Angel of hemophilia

A specail mode that brings back the bleeding mechanic from earlier incarnations of this game, just for a change of pace... Could be combined with any other challenge mode...


Angel of gemini

Select two other challenge modes and try to play under the conditions of both at once... Now, obviously, AoB and AoMr would be incompatible and both of these would be incompatible with AoPac, but they rest of the modes would be more or less compatible, though some could create bizarre (but none-the-less interesting) scenarios like a 50 level Ao100 (Ao100 + AoH)...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on December 11, 2008, 17:57
Actually AoB and AoMr would be compatible... you'd have to finish the game with fists alone, or as AoPac :P.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Captain Trek on December 11, 2008, 20:42
Right... Well, anyway, this...

Quote
scenarios like a 50 level Ao100 (Ao100 + AoH)

...gave me an idea... Perhaps each combination of modes could be given its own name as well... Ao100 + AoH = Angel of 50, for example... Here's a few others I came up with...


Ao100 + AoH: Angel of 50

AoPure + AoPac: Angel of Bhuddism

AoRA + AoPac: Angel of Passive Agressive

AoRA + AoMas (or maybe AoB + AoMas): Angel of Sadomasocism


That's all I've really got so far... Actually, that's an idea, what if only some of them had names? You know, like little easter eggs or something?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: LockeCarnelia on December 11, 2008, 23:54
Angel of Insanity:

Hell's Invasion has left you a bit.... touched in the head.

This is a variation upon the Angel of Hallucinations, but instead of weird bizarro wacky things, instead, all items and monsters have random icons, so it is quite plausible that a Former Human could look like an Archvile until he shot his pistol at you.  Similarly, on maps with large quantities of lava/acid, certain tiles will be marked as dangerous when they are not, and certain tiles that ARE dangerous will appear normal until you step on them.  Levers, however, will remain normal.  The effect message, however, will be blatantly false, and will appear to reflect the false message until you actually test it, revealing the effect to be false.

A bit of a note to make things easier: Enemies will be revealed as their true selves once they fire. Equippable and usable items will be revealed when you get within two squares of aforementioned item.  Barrels will remain hidden as their insane visions at all times.  Each rank increase of Intuition would increase this "Detection" range.

This isn't the weird goofy hallucination stuff, this is dead serious hallucination stuff.

The Advantages?  Weeeell, you could overestimate an enemy, and overestimation of a foe NEVER hurts.

The Disadvantages?  You could look at a barrel right next to you and think it's a Former Human, just ready to shoot at you.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Captain Trek on December 12, 2008, 08:15
Angel of Insanity sounds like a good way to drive the player insane... I'm just... not a fan of these "mislabel everything" type challenges as they really aren't "challenges" so much as they are the Russian Roulette and I don't know about you, but for me, games of pure chance (such as both kinds of roulette) are not my idea of either challenge or fun...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: LockeCarnelia on December 12, 2008, 16:05
Thing is, it's not pure chance.  Monsters will still act like monsters, and everything else will still act like everything else, so one can tell pretty fast if that shotgun in the corner is really a shotgun.

It's meant to be a serious challenge, and I think it accomplishes that.  If you're frustrated, it's doing its job.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Ischaldirh on December 13, 2008, 14:43
What if instead of mislabeling everything as something else, everything appeared identical? All enemies looked like demons, all guns looked like pistols, something like that?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Dawgas on December 13, 2008, 21:08
or maybe randomize every icon in the game, forcing you to look at everything, for example, .s may be archviles one game, and walls the next


not exactly challenging... maybe it could change every floor and be combined with Angel of Darkness?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Visalos on December 15, 2008, 16:24
Hallucinations work best in roguelikes that don't have rocket launchers.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Sachiko on December 29, 2008, 04:11
Hallucinations work best in roguelikes that don't have rocket launchers.

Wise words of wisdom.

Aaaanyways, I'm gonna make another challenge suggestion myself...

Angel of Silence:

You have a little problem. You're deaf-mute. To counterweight this lacking, your other senses have developed more than usual, but unfortunately, you can't hear a thing. At all.

Advantages: Your sight range is increased slightly.

Disadvantages: Anything that would generate a sound remains completely silent.

And believe me, remaining alert to the sounds that lurk by the dungeon can be quite a lifesaver sometimes. Each monster has a characteristic growl that helps you know what is waiting for you behind the door you're about to open, and also, if shooting a monster that is beyond your range of sight/Intuition, you won't know if you have hit it or even killed it. It can quite disrupt your tactics if you are not careful.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: rekenne on December 29, 2008, 08:49
Am I the only person that turns sounds off, entirely, when he plays DoomRL?
I listen to music instead. >_>
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Visalos on December 30, 2008, 01:07
Am I the only person that turns sounds off, entirely, when he plays DoomRL?
I listen to music instead. >_>

ah, that makes me reminisce again, back to the days when i'd play doom until the wee hours of the night wired on caffeine and when i'd try to sleep i'd still be hearing the roars and wails and death-rattles of demons. but to answer your question, i wouldn't singlehandedly besiege hell itself with headphones on. forewarned is forearmed :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Sachiko on January 01, 2009, 04:49
Indeed. I can't count the many times that hearing to the growls of the demons has helped me keep myself alert and capable of making a winning tactic.

For example, if I get close to a corner and I hear something like "Grrrrr... bark!", I know that there's a mancubus waiting for me, so I'll give him a fistful of rockets as a welcoming gift. I hear like someone's munching or grunting like a pig? Meh! Another former human! A bit of boomstick will make short work of him!

Keeping your ears open is a good way to be a step forward, both in the original game and in DoomRL.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Poochie on January 01, 2009, 13:50
Angel of Certainity:

You hate chance, you hate games of chance, you hate dice so much that you crush them when you see them. As a result your guns do (either average or max) damage and you are guaranteed to hit. However this also applies to your enemies.

This would make HR, EE and probably some other traits worthless, but it might be fun for an attempt.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: rekenne on January 01, 2009, 14:19
... But it also applies to your enemies. I don't think you could get past the opening level. o_o
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Visalos on January 01, 2009, 14:26
luck is one of a roguelike's keystones. without the randomization, we would quickly learn EXACTLY how much health/armor/ammo needed to fight any one monster or group thereof. roguelikes are about abusing the mechanics, yes, but there needs to be room for the numbers to slop around so things can go terribly wrong or terribly right. and yeah, we'd never get through the hangar.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on January 03, 2009, 10:44
Actually I think that Angel of Maximum Damage could be fun :)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Visalos on January 03, 2009, 15:06
sadist.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on January 03, 2009, 20:24
Yaaaay ^__^
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: skarczew on January 04, 2009, 04:54
sadist.
S&M
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on January 06, 2009, 13:23
CRAZIES THING:
Angel of Frantic Juggler:
You are the most skilled juggler in the world. You could balance 3 or more pistols in the air and shot them(no aim). This would be interesting way to kill monsters.
Adv.: You could hold 3 (6 wis DG)pistols
Disadv.: Your chance to hit with pistol equals chance to hit with chaingun.
Ideas about implemementing-if you hold pistol in your hand and take another - pistiol converts into double pistol, and triple same way. With DG in another hand the same.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Captain Trek on January 06, 2009, 21:21
Adv.: You could hold 3 (6 wis DG)pistols
Disadv.: Your chance to hit with pistol equals chance to hit with chaingun.

Who believes in the Eagle Eye? ;)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: rekenne on January 06, 2009, 22:34
Mm.
Shooting 18 bullets in the time you'd normally shoot once. I think I like that idea... <_<
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: myuzinn on January 07, 2009, 23:09
Angel of Power.

All experience received is quadrupled.

All enemies move, fire, and reload twice as fast.

The point in this challenge is to allow the player to develop ridiculous firepower / abilities, in exchange for the monsters receiving essentially the same thing.

The various modifiers may have to be tweaked.

Similarly,

Angel of Massacre/Hordes

The amount of enemies spawned per level is quadrupled. This stacks with extra spawning from higher difficulties.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on January 08, 2009, 04:13
Angel of Power.

All experience received is quadrupled.

All enemies move, fire, and reload twice as fast.

The point in this challenge is to allow the player to develop ridiculous firepower / abilities, in exchange for the monsters receiving essentially the same thing.

The various modifiers may have to be tweaked.

Similarly,

Angel of Massacre/Hordes

The amount of enemies spawned per level is quadrupled. This stacks with extra spawning from higher difficulties.

I like both. But maybe in first case it could be double hp + damage instead of faster actions?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: 007bistromath on January 08, 2009, 04:16
Exploration: the stairs don't appear until you've seen every tile of the map. This will make cave levels totally gross, of course, so fix it by having envirosuits or computer maps spawn at least once a level.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on January 08, 2009, 07:40
Exploration: the stairs don't appear until you've seen every tile of the map. This will make cave levels totally gross, of course, so fix it by having envirosuits or computer maps spawn at least once a level.
I think there shouldn't be any computer maps at all in this challenge. And wading through lava would just be one of the fun things about it (that, or having an envirosuit with you) ;). Other then that - a great idea, IMO.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: 007bistromath on January 08, 2009, 08:02
Generally, yes, that's exactly what my idea was. But cave levels would present a problem here, because of the much higher chance that a large swath of the map will be covered in lava or worse, actually inaccessible normally. Something would need to be done to get the player through those in this challenge.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on January 08, 2009, 09:57
Generally, yes, that's exactly what my idea was. But cave levels would present a problem here, because of the much higher chance that a large swath of the map will be covered in lava or worse, actually inaccessible normally. Something would need to be done to get the player through those in this challenge.
Perhaps he should only see every FLOOR tile ? Flooding the level would then be the easy way out... Then again - a risky one, too ;).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on January 08, 2009, 11:53
New Idea:
Angel of UAC(what's this?)
You're the last chance of UAC. And they understand this.They do not send you in battle armless, they support you. At the beginning of each level, they drop you cargo, which contains UAC best developments. Demons are jealious to you and so they're mean mean mean. They do not give you a single 10mm ammo from former human,not saying about plasma cell.
Adv: you have endless ammo and weapons suitable for current level.(No advantages in hell, optional)
Disadv: demons do not drop anything, no items on the level.
The drop maybe:
HNTR:5 meds(small or large), Z ammo(for current weapon), weapon from Combat shotgun to Rocket launcher, every 4 levels a unique(optional), armor.
HMP: 3meds,Z*2 ammo, weapon, every 6 levels unique, every 2 lvl armor
UV: 2 small meds, Z*4 ammo, every 12 levels unique, every 4 lvl armor
N!: simular to UV but drop every 2 lvl(not including ammo)
Z is value which I don't know, could be from 100 to 500. 2 10mm = 1 12g = 0,1 rocket
Remember,that UAC could drop only HUMAN weapons, pistols,shotguns(every) or Rcket Launchers. Uniques too(blaster not included).
This angel could have variatives, like Angel of Mean, where disadv are the same, except weapons on the floor, and adv is that formers couldn't use or get human weapons(you're mean!).
That's all
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on January 08, 2009, 12:55
New Idea:
Angel of UAC(what's this?)
You're the last chance of UAC. And they understand this.They do not send you in battle armless, they support you. At the beginning of each level, they drop you cargo, which contains UAC best developments. Demons are jealious to you and so they're mean mean mean. They do not give you a single 10mm ammo from former human,not saying about plasma cell.
Adv: you have endless ammo and weapons suitable for current level.(No advantages in hell, optional)
Disadv: demons do not drop anything, no items on the level.
The drop maybe:
HNTR:5 meds(small or large), Z ammo(for current weapon), weapon from Combat shotgun to Rocket launcher, every 4 levels a unique(optional), armor.
HMP: 3meds,Z*2 ammo, weapon, every 6 levels unique, every 2 lvl armor
UV: 2 small meds, Z*4 ammo, every 12 levels unique, every 4 lvl armor
N!: simular to UV but drop every 2 lvl(not including ammo)
Z is value which I don't know, could be from 100 to 500. 2 10mm = 1 12g = 0,1 rocket

I like it. But i'd rather made it use current item probability system (so large meds would have higher chance to spawn on later levels than small ones). And made ammo spawning level-dependant, so it could generate several types of ammo, but only for weapons that are actual for current level (so more rockets and plasma cells on later levels, but 10mm and shotgun ammo should still be there). And i'd changed some numbers:
HNTR: 2 meds (5 is too much), ammo, weapon, every 5 levels a unique (so 4 unique per game), armor.
HMP: 2 meds, Z*2 ammo, weapon, every 7 levels unique (so 3 unique per game), every 2 lvl armor
UV: 1 med, Z*3 ammo, weapon, every 12 levels unique (2), every 2 lvl armor (armor is vital for higher difficulties)
N!: simular to UV but drop every 2 lvl(not including ammo)

And one more thing: all weapons of doomguy are human creations. Imho plasma rifle/chainsaw/BFG 9K should be generated too (the last one not for all difficulties and on later level only).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on January 08, 2009, 13:51
Read the description to plasma cells - the peak of demons frying technology!  They're not human. And I don't like them. And it would make the challenge not so challenging. Maybe deploing BFG9k right on lvl25, and BFG10k on lvl26.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on January 08, 2009, 20:23
BTW, BFG10K is *the* weapon against JC :)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: LockeCarnelia on January 08, 2009, 20:57
The In-Game descriptions should not be what you base "Can a Marine have this" off of.

Mainly because in original Doom lore, the Plasma Rifle and the BFG9k were both developed before the invasion, and assumedly, the plasma cells might've been invented BEFORE the weapons, or, at least, the basic technologies to enable someone to construct them.

For maximum Doomishness, Plasma Rifles and BFGs would have to be in.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: rekenne on January 09, 2009, 01:08
That, and it never actually says what ZZ claims, so...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on January 09, 2009, 07:04
Read the description to plasma cells - the peak of demons frying technology!  They're not human. And I don't like them. And it would make the challenge not so challenging. Maybe deploing BFG9k right on lvl25, and BFG10k on lvl26.

LockeCarnelia is true. If description says that it's a product of demon technology - then it's Kornel fault - in original DooM demons had no technology, and all weapons was developed by UAC. Also, i would like to watch you trying to clear arach's cave on UV with just chaingun...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on January 09, 2009, 09:59
Read the description to plasma cells - the peak of demons frying technology!  They're not human.
Why ? It's the peak of the technology, created with the purpose of frying demons. You think that the demons like to fry themselves that much ;) ?
It's "demon-frying" technology, not frying technology of demon origin...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on January 09, 2009, 11:30
Okay,okay. But no Revenant launchers - this would be really unfair.
It's a little more, but I had a NEW idea
Angel of Bloodlust/Vampirizm
UAC thought that if they send a monster instead of human they would win. They're right. With unreal powers you confront the demons. Phobos, beware.
Adv. - all-time berserk,"bloodlust" feature(see below)
Disadv. - no chance to use ANY item(including power-ups), except fists(claws)
"Bloodlust" is regaining healt from fallen enemies or from enemies themselves. 5% from dealed dmg goes to your health. If you stand on blooded floor you regain 5 health for 10 turns(after - none). If you stand on the pool of blood - 10 hp by 20 turns. And if you attack smb without full health - no blood is spilled(somebody drank all of it).
Your ideas?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Captain Trek on February 21, 2009, 14:08
I must say, it surprises me just how much of a reccuring theme the suggestion of a "vampire mode" seems to be, to be honest...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Visalos on February 21, 2009, 19:23
must be people's natural inclination to suck.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Sachiko on March 14, 2009, 12:11
I see what you did there...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Smiley on April 07, 2009, 20:39
Angel of Hunger

Player must get food to keep himself alive longer... With time the player gets hungrier and different things happen, including change of status. To keep him/herself fed the player can find MRE (Meal Ready to Eat) packages which can be randomly found on every level except special levels like Hell's Arena and so on...

Corpses can be eaten too but give various effects and temporary/permanent traits, most of which can be negative.

Stuffed - Speed -50%, Temporary Trait of Ironman (3) for 250/5000 (Up to RNG) turns. Though the turns are halved when status lowers...

In-game Quote "Oh boy..."

Well Fed - No bonuses or disadvantages...

In-game Quote "That hit the spot..."

Hungry - Speed -25%, -5 HP every fifty turns with the message 'Your stomach grumbles...'

In-game Quote "I need some chow..."

Very hungry - Speed +10%, -10 HP every twenty five turns with the message 'Your stomach grumbles loudly...' and skipping a turn.

In-game Quote "Gimme some chow!"

Starving - Speed +50%, -5 HP every five turns, if there are MRE's in sight the player goes berserk during which the previous effect does not happen until the MRE is not eaten or berserk status is worn off.

In-game Quote "Food..."

---

MRE packages have their own statuses and various effects...

Ripe - There are two outcomes when this MRE is eaten. One is that it changes the player's status to 'Well Fed' if the player's status is below 'Well Fed' and the other changes player's status to Stuffed when the player is 'Well Fed'. It also acts as a small med-pack...

In-game Description: 'It's as if this 'Meal Ready to Eat' is right of the production line...'

Normal - Raises the status by one and acts as a small med-pack. Can't raise player status to Stuffed.

In-game Description: 'Tastes like toilet paper...'

Rotten - Raises the status by one and restores 10 HP though there's a 80% chance of lowering the status instead raising it.

In-game Description: 'How old is this? Two, three, six decades?'
In-game quote when status is raised: "Ugh, damn that's nasty..."
In-game quote when status is lowered when the player is not starving: "Hurk, I feel like shit..."
In-game message when status is lowered bellow Starving: 'Congratulations marine! You just stupidly died of food poisoning...'
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Visalos on April 08, 2009, 00:01
ooh ooh i can play this!

Angel of Yendor: Go play Nethack.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Angle of Death on April 08, 2009, 02:23
Angel of Quake
Hard

"Where the hell am I? This isn't the war I signed up for!"

You are an elite soldier of Earth, sent against a ruthless alien foe. Too bad you wandered through that funny portal.

Pros: You start out with a Blaster instead of a pistol, the Bfg10K Is guaranteed to spawn in Hell's armory, and the Railgun appears on level 20.

Cons: Your weapons aren't quite right. They're not the ones you trained with in basic. You take a to-hit penalty with all weaons except the Blaster, Bfg10K, and Railgun, until you reach character level 5.


Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on April 08, 2009, 08:22
Angel of Quake
Hard

"Where the hell am I? This isn't the war I signed up for!"

You are an elite soldier of Earth, sent against a ruthless alien foe. Too bad you wandered through that funny portal.

Pros: You start out with a Blaster instead of a pistol, the Bfg10K Is guaranteed to spawn in Hell's armory, and the Railgun appears on level 20.

Cons: Your weapons aren't quite right. They're not the ones you trained with in basic. You take a to-hit penalty with all weaons except the Blaster, Bfg10K, and Railgun, until you reach character level 5.

With such weapons, you should have the to-hit penalty unless your reach experience level 30 [;
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: metroidRL on April 08, 2009, 09:40
angel of hard doom
blade!!!!!!! (lol)

"whats this?, the enemies don't suppose to be like this"

the enemies are now hard (the name explain that idiot, playing in nightmare will be a stupid idea), now blade beat this.

pros: triplied the amount of red armors(apears on level 4), supercharge globes(apears on level 3), megaspheres (this will apear now on level 8), berserks packs(always apear) and you start with a blue armor and a chaingun

cons: former humans now carrie sonic railguns (less powerfull that the railgun), sergeants carry double shotgun (o.o), imps have diferents fireballs, captains have double chaingun and a chance to drop minigun, demons are now more fasters, lost souls now they fire fireballs (and a posibility to they charge at you before die), cacodemons now have a 25% of chance to fire homing fireballs (not too powerfull), hell knight now have a 35% chance fire a deadly fireball (but they don't have too much accuaracy) barons of hells now have a chance to fire flames, pain elementals just have more hp (double shotgun strictly requiered), commandos no changes, aracnatrons now have fussion cannon, revenants now fire two homings fireballs (lolwtf?), mancubus doubles the fireballs (omfg) archviles now have flame atacks (diferent to his same atack like a liitle fireball lol) cyberdemon now fire two rocket launchers with a chance of 40% of fire homing missiles.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Smiley on April 08, 2009, 23:53
Angel of Redemption
Difficulty: Nightmare (No Exceptions)
Rank: Blade or Legend?
XP Rank (Probably): Hell Baron

The game starts from Phobos Surface (The Starting Level) goes down to Depth 30. Where this message appears in intro format.

As you step towards the blood dripping stairs, the insane laughter of the announcer from Hell's Arena booms.

"You think you'll be able to find an exit here?! No!" and forth come the bloodcurdling screams of the public as the announcer speaks again.

"This is HELL mortal! There is no escape hatch at the bottom of hell!" the screams of the public go wild as your stomach clenches.

"The escape was there on the surface mortal! The ship you came with your fellow marines! You could have avoid all of this exquisite slaughter and just fly away like a little coward!!!" as he and the public laugh at you you realize how stupid you were. But your realizations were once again interrupted by the demonic announcer.

"This is the moment of choice mortal." the announcer's rasp was quiet and serious as the public quieted down.

"Do you join hell?" the question surprised you. "Or do you redeem yourself!?" and there was the old roar of the announcer with the screaming public demanding blood and death. And then everything started shaking as the rock ceiling behind you started cracking apart, stalagmites crashing into the floor and the room slowly falling apart.

"Choose mortal!" both the public and the announcer roared their voices blocking out everything, including the worn stairs that crashed through the ceiling, leading up.


The player will start in the middle of an blood covered island surrounded by lava. Right of him are red stairs and left of him are gray, that lead to depth/level 29 and from there the player must reach Phobos surface. If the player takes the red stairs, then the player joins hell and the game ends with the General saying that the poor soul got him/herself corrupted and has joined hell.

Now when the player gets to level 29 he gets this message...

"Good, mortal! You still are there, and I thought you were gonna crack." the announcer chuckles nastily. "Say goodbye to your hard earned gear! And let's start this show all over again! This time... it's the FINALE!"

The player looses all equipment and inventory items (even the unique) and now mus get back up to Phobos Surface through all the levels he previously visited. Special level placement change from their usual 2-3 (Hell's Arena) to 27-28 and so on with other levels too. The monster generation changes too, basically it's like you start the game on the surface, but only bellow it at level 29 and you have to revisit all the previous levels that will be left as they were though monsters and items will still be generated. Though they will be generated in the same way as the special levels are placed.

When the player reaches Phobos Surface after defeating AoD, Cybie and JC all over again (JC at level 6 on the way back), he/she get this message intro format style (again?!).

"This is the real choice mortal..." you quickly turn around to face the announcer coming out from the building which led down into Phobos. The announcer looks familiar for some reason.

"Which side are you on?" then you slowly realize that the announcer look like you.

"Hell..." the announcer steps aside and gestures to the dark and dank inviting entrance of the building, from which even now you swear you could hear quiet screams for death and blood plus the stench of rot and decay.

"Or heaven..." startled, you turn around and look into the face of The General, the man who sent you and your squad to check on the Phobos installation. You notice his whole demeanor was changed. He looked old, tired and sad... as if he seen to much in one lifetime. And then... you slowly realize just like before with the announcer. The General looks like you, only older, tired and... so sad.

"Choose mortal..." the announcer growled out...

And basically this is the same thing as before only this time there are no stairs, but a small shuttle.

::::::::::::::::::::
::::=######::::
::::()#######::
::::=##||###:::
:::::::@::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::@:::::::::
::::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::@:::::::
::::###::###::::
::##:::::::::##::
##:::::::::::::##
##:::::::::::::##
##::::::>::::::##
##:::::::::::::##
::##:::::::::##::
::::#######::::
::::::::::::::::::::

Notably both The General and the Announcer are friendly until you shoot them. If you shoot them then be prepared to fight since both The General and The Announcer move twice faster than JC. TG has a rapid pistol whose lowest amount of damage is identical to JC's health and TA has a rapid BFG 9000. And both have twice as much health as JC!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Visalos on April 09, 2009, 01:37
your creations would destroy you.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Smiley on April 09, 2009, 04:01
Tell me, are you trying to somehow piss me of and make go into a hissy fit about someone being a total jerk?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on April 09, 2009, 04:39
Heh, this is a challange suitable for Blade rank :P. To Hell and Back ^_^
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on April 09, 2009, 06:35
There is no Blade suitable for this challenge. -____-

Can we have a challenge where you need to watch some films and drink a cider with a Blade difficulty rank?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on April 09, 2009, 08:02
Tell me, are you trying to somehow piss me of and make go into a hissy fit about someone being a total jerk?
Visalos has a knack for witty, cutting remarks that would make most people mad... But if you're bright enough - you'll see that he really has a point. He just expresses it in a clever, aggravating, implicit form where you have to read between the lines a bit to get what he means.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Visalos on April 09, 2009, 11:48
Tell me, are you trying to somehow piss me of and make go into a hissy fit about someone being a total jerk?

I apologize for any misunderstandings, and I will own up to the total jerkness. I did indeed have a point, and will say no more on the subject, other than (insert sop to the ego here) you obviously thought a lot about the challenge you posted, and it shines through as a unique idea by itself, if not exactly what that jackass Visalos would consider a canonical DoomRL challenge.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: rekenne on April 09, 2009, 14:22
Huh.
That is a pretty cool challenge, if a lot more indepth than all the other challenges.
You *would* keep all your levels, right?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Smiley on April 09, 2009, 18:07
Yes, but all equipment and inventory is lost.

Quote
I apologize for any misunderstandings, and I will own up to the total jerkness. I did indeed have a point, and will say no more on the subject, other than (insert sop to the ego here) you obviously thought a lot about the challenge you posted, and it shines through as a unique idea by itself, if not exactly what that jackass Visalos would consider a canonical DoomRL challenge.

Apology accepted and I did probably over think it. Besides couldn't 'Angel of [Insert Challenge Name]' be their own stand alone stories of sorts not connected to canon?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Passionario on April 27, 2009, 06:40
Angel of Feather Fall
DIFFICULTY: Easy/Medium
Due to a genetic mutation, you are almost weightless. You walk and run slightly faster, but suffer massive knockbacks from any shots that hit you.

Angel of Degeneration
Difficulty: Easy
You begin the game with all traits. Every time you descend to the next level, you choose one of your traits and lose it (prerequisites still apply, so you won't be able to choose Eagle Eye (2) if you have Intuition and/or Cateye). Oh, and you don't gain experience.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Captain Trek on April 28, 2009, 10:46
Angel of Feather Fall
DIFFICULTY: Easy/Medium
Due to a genetic mutation, you are almost weightless. You walk and run slightly faster, but suffer massive knockbacks from any shots that hit you.

Just what we need, DoomRL, starring Flubber... -_-

Angel of Degeneration
Difficulty: Easy
You begin the game with all traits. Every time you descend to the next level, you choose one of your traits and lose it (prerequisites still apply, so you won't be able to choose Eagle Eye (2) if you have Intuition and/or Cateye). Oh, and you don't gain experience.

This actually seems interesting... Well, let's see, there are somewhere in the region of 40 traits in total... If we assume a bog-standard chaingun build, nine of them (shottyman, DG, SoaG (3 ranks), brute (3 ranks) and berserker) are (virtually) completely useless and can be considered "expendible"... After that, Cateye I suppose can go because you would also have Intuition (so that's two more) and Juggler is also fairly expendable... That's 13... After that, though, it does indeed become trickier as all the remaning traits are useful... I suppose you could drop Whizkid if you we'ren't having any luck with mods, but that's still only 15, leaving another ten to be dropped (assuming you don't go to any of the specail levels)...

Well, what would you get rid of after deleting all the "expendable" traits? I'd probably go for reloader and finesse first (another five), leaving the most important and useful chaingun (again, this is assuming a chaingun build) traits (SoaB, EE and TH)... After that, I'd probably drop Badass (that's three more, but IIRC Kornel is considering lowering this), which leaves HR, TaN, Iornman, Intuition and the three "chaingun traits", all of which are too important to just throw away without thought... I'd probably lean towards one level of EE (as chainguns and plasma rifles are still accurate enough without all three levels of EE) and probably a level of TaN if my armour stats was OK (and I might drop a level of TH if it wasn't, since now I'm probably only a level away from Cybie and will hopefully be using the BFG on him anyway)...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on April 28, 2009, 15:02
Angel of Degeneration
Difficulty: Easy
You begin the game with all traits. Every time you descend to the next level, you choose one of your traits and lose it (prerequisites still apply, so you won't be able to choose Eagle Eye (2) if you have Intuition and/or Cateye). Oh, and you don't gain experience.

(...) Well, what would you get rid of after deleting all the "expendable" traits? (...)
If there ARE "expendable" traits, they should be removed or fine-tuned, that's one thing.

As for AoDg... Too easy, yet inspiring. I'd say - pick 25 traits at the start of the game... and THEN discard one after each stairs. The bottom line is - you should be traitless when facing the CD.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: tehtmi on April 28, 2009, 20:21
As for AoDg... Too easy, yet inspiring. I'd say - pick 25 traits at the start of the game... and THEN discard one after each stairs. The bottom line is - you should be traitless when facing the CD.

This initially struck me as a really cool idea.  I would love the challenge of playing the last few levels -- but would the beginning of the game just be too boring?  It could be fun a few times, but it would just be so easy.  Hmm...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Passionario on April 29, 2009, 01:58
As for AoDg... Too easy, yet inspiring. I'd say - pick 25 traits at the start of the game... and THEN discard one after each stairs. The bottom line is - you should be traitless when facing the CD.
/applaud

Far better than my initial idea, wish I thought of this first.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on April 29, 2009, 07:01
As for AoDg... Too easy, yet inspiring. I'd say - pick 25 traits at the start of the game... and THEN discard one after each stairs. The bottom line is - you should be traitless when facing the CD.

I would love the challenge of playing the last few levels -- but would the beginning of the game just be too boring?
It's not THAT much of a godmode - you simply start with wimpy items and a lot of traits and end up with powerful items and no traits.
Then again - you'd have to start with level 25, so - either Kornel makes that possible or we're forced to change AoDg a bit and limit ourselves to starting with *insert the maximum level in 0.9.8.11 here* and be traitless for more than just the final battle... or we can start losing traits on level *25-the maximum level in 0.9.8.11 ;)* so that we lose the last when entering the Arena. What do you think ?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Visalos on April 29, 2009, 15:11
How about starting at clvl1 with 25 traits and advancing in experience normally? This idea sounds like a coding nightmare in the first place. Plain ol' levels have more benefits than just traits, don't they?

While I'm in this thread, I have come up with a new twist on the Angel of Suck(blood) challenge. Wanna hear it? Here it go.

Angel of Sadism(that's how i thought of it, from the title. we have masochism, so.)

Pro: You gain health for inflicting pain, injury, and anguish.
Cons: So do the monsters. Health items don't work, either.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: rekenne on April 29, 2009, 16:37
No, actually, levels don't have benefits besides traits (Unless you're playing Angel of D&D)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Thomas on April 30, 2009, 01:00
Angel of Sadism(that's how i thought of it, from the title. we have masochism, so.)

Pro: You gain health for inflicting pain, injury, and anguish.
Cons: So do the monsters. Health items don't work, either.

Eh, I'd rather a challenge mode that forced you out of the "SoaB/TH/TaN sit in the middle of the level and chaingun turret like a champ" strategy rather than in to it.

Hm...

Well, this is just off the top of my head, so it'll need tweaking:
Angel of Rocketry
Why would you want anything OTHER than rockets? They're big and bad and do all sorts of neat tricks, like turning demons in to mist!
Pros: You start with a rocketlauncher and a huge amount of rockets. At least 10 inventory slots worth. The Wall is guaranteed to appear.
Cons: You can't use anything other than a rocket launcher. So what happens if someone brushes up next to you?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: skarczew on May 06, 2009, 05:34
AoDegeneration sounds funny ^_^ .
Just change the difficulty to very easy :) .
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Passionario on May 06, 2009, 07:20
Angel of Wild Hunt
"It's a jungle out there. See if you can make your way to the top of the food chain."
Every monster you face is a cunning predator. They can see you from across the entire level and track your movements through walls.


Well, this is just off the top of my head, so it'll need tweaking:
Angel of Rocketry
Why would you want anything OTHER than rockets? They're big and bad and do all sorts of neat tricks, like turning demons in to mist!
Pros: You start with a rocketlauncher and a huge amount of rockets. At least 10 inventory slots worth. The Wall is guaranteed to appear.
Cons: You can't use anything other than a rocket launcher. So what happens if someone brushes up next to you?

And to take it one step further:

Angel of World War III
"It's raining missiles out there!"
You start out with a rocket launcher and some rockets. Unfortunately, so does everything else. Every shooting monster, from lowly formers to Archviles can and will shoot rockets (though the accuracy, speed and killing power varies). In fact, there are no other weapons and ammo in this game - it's rockets-rockets-rockets all the way.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on May 06, 2009, 22:51
And to take it one step further:

Angel of World War III
"It's raining missiles out there!"
You start out with a rocket launcher and some rockets. Unfortunately, so does everything else. Every shooting monster, from lowly formers to Archviles can and will shoot rockets (though the accuracy, speed and killing power varies). In fact, there are no other weapons and ammo in this game - it's rockets-rockets-rockets all the way.

Take it two steps further

Angel of Nuclear Warfare
"Why do I think that I am not the only one smuggling uranium?
You start out with thermonuclear bombs. Unfortunately, so does everyone/everything else. Every shooting and meele monster, from weak Barons of Hell to a little more powerful Cyberdaemons (CYBERDAEMONS!) or Angel of Death will use a thermonuclear bomb as soon as you are in light of sight.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on May 08, 2009, 02:33
And to take it one step further:

Angel of World War III
"It's raining missiles out there!"
You start out with a rocket launcher and some rockets. Unfortunately, so does everything else. Every shooting monster, from lowly formers to Archviles can and will shoot rockets (though the accuracy, speed and killing power varies). In fact, there are no other weapons and ammo in this game - it's rockets-rockets-rockets all the way.

Take it two steps further

Angel of Nuclear Warfare
"Why do I think that I am not the only one smuggling uranium?
You start out with thermonuclear bombs. Unfortunately, so does everyone/everything else. Every shooting and meele monster, from weak Barons of Hell to a little more powerful Cyberdaemons (CYBERDAEMONS!) or Angel of Death will use a thermonuclear bomb as soon as you are in light of sight.

Fun, but rather uncompleteable :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Tavana on May 08, 2009, 02:59
Fun, but rather uncompleteable :P

Since when was "completable" a roguelike requirement? :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Smiley on May 08, 2009, 08:45
Angel of Barrels

"Khe, he, he. This will be a complete mess..."
What the hell happened here? The whole base from top to bottom is filled up with barrels. Maybe they had a bad day with the reactor, or in the laboratories. Each level (even the first one) is filled with explosive barrels to the brim and has limited space to walk on, sometimes there will be pockets of safe space (not really). And also when the barrels explode they leave pools of acid (the size of the pool is randomly generated to be as large as the blast or less).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: MegaMad on May 09, 2009, 00:47
Angel of 300

Rank: Colonel
Difficulty: Very, Very Hard

If you think your crazy enough to say that completing 100 levels is easy, try beating it 3 times the level. There's something special at every 100 level.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Angle of Death on May 11, 2009, 00:49
Angel of Bloodshed

Difficuly: Hard

There is no cyber level........There is no cyber level........There is no cyber level........There is no cyber level........There is no cyber level........There is no cyber level........


Pros: HP and armor bonuses (including those from Ironman and Tough as nails) are doubled.



Cons: The game has twice as many levels as normal. Every other level is a "theme" level, with fourteen will be city levels featuring large numbers of the same monster, one for each monster in the game (except the three unique ones and the AV), and each of the remaining ten arena levels featuring even larger hordes of a single random enemy.


Variant: For a harder variant, give monsters immunity to the attacks of their own kind.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on May 13, 2009, 07:40
The Hell Runner
"Fire walk with me"

You are so fast, that fire burns the ground you step onto. Literally. After stepping on a floor, after 5 turns it turns into lava.

PROS: When low on health, you can run away through narrow corridors and monster won't chase You.

CONS: You have to plan your moves carefully (especially in the maze levels). Also you cannot stand in one place for too long.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Dervis on May 13, 2009, 10:48
Angel of Remorse

Ever since your childhood when you got your father's gun and shot an innocent squirrel, you can't help but feel remorse whenever you kill anything, be it a fly or a monster. Only God knows how you ended up in the military...

Whenever an enemy dies you lose 1 hp.
---

Well i think it's quite straightforward and probably medium-hard difficulty. Just be careful with Pain Elementals and BFG shots and you should be ok.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Dervis on May 13, 2009, 10:59
Angel of Quake
Hard

"Where the hell am I? This isn't the war I signed up for!"

You are an elite soldier of Earth, sent against a ruthless alien foe. Too bad you wandered through that funny portal.

Pros: You start out with a Blaster instead of a pistol, the Bfg10K Is guaranteed to spawn in Hell's armory, and the Railgun appears on level 20.

Cons: Your weapons aren't quite right. They're not the ones you trained with in basic. You take a to-hit penalty with all weaons except the Blaster, Bfg10K, and Railgun, until you reach character level 5.

You do know that the Blaster is one of the best weapons in the game? and that this would be actually easier instead of a Challenge?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Dervis on May 13, 2009, 11:53
Bah, i'm a bit sorry for multi-posting but just wanted to give my opinion on Bones.

I played a lot of Nethack and it spawns Bones levels so i have some experience in this. The best part of Bones levels is they carried your entire old inventory, including any Uniques that he may have carried, protected by a 'somewhat' nasty opponent.
What i would do is to implement Bones in the game would be:

- Whenever a marine died, the game would save a bones file containing the layout of the map, and the items carried by the marine.
- A bones level would be:
       - identical in design to the level where the marine died.
       - have the items carried by the marine scattered across the map
       - random Powerups
       - random Monsters
       - a new monster 'D' (former doomguy) with 70 hp, 120% speed, +4 hit, 2 base armor, extended vision like the Cyberdemon, and capable of using any items like the old HK/BoH.

Anyway, instead of an Angel of Bones i'd put a small chance of a regular level being a Bones Level starting on HMP difficulty. Dead marines usually carry spare weapon mods and the more than ocasional unique.

P.S. - For those who don't know old school BoH had a nasty tendency to find chainguns, rocket launchers, and plasma guns on the level floor and because of their huge +hit bonus they'd actually manage to hurt you a lot. Sadly they would also pick up pistols and start shooting them.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: MegaMad on May 13, 2009, 17:15
Angel of Allergies
Difficulty: Very Hard
Rank: Colonel

You are highly allergic to demons. Because of this, if a demon hits you once in melee, you explode into a huge shower of gore. Hell notice this and took this as an advantage. Every enemy will charge at you if you get close, demons and lost souls are generated more, and the cyberdemon is now based more on melee.
So, Be Very, Very careful.

Also, I made some changes to the phasing challenge.

Angel of Phaseshift/Phase shock

This challenge is nothing but phasing around more than healing yourself. There's a chance that the medkits will work like a phase device and more of the phase device are generated. Also the monsters will teleport randomly at anytime.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Smiley on May 15, 2009, 16:47
Angel of Water

Uh-oh, was there a sewage leak or something? Every space in every level is filled with water. Since water seems to have no effect whatsoever, I propose it's difficult to wade through it making the player twice or thrice slower.

---

Angel of Termination

"Uh-oh, I think some people misplaced their robot..."

Player basically has Ironman, ToT, SoB, Eagle Eye, Cateye and Intuition, all at level 10 (Except Intuition). Plus a plasma rifle with unlimited ammunition. There are twice the amount of enemies there are at Nightmare a the player is also four times slower...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Passionario on May 17, 2009, 02:12
Angel of Pain
Difficulty: HARD
Every time you kill an enemy other than a lost soul, one or more lost souls will be generated from its corpse, Pain-Elemental-style.
Weak enemies like formers or imps will create only a single soul, while arch-viles and mancubi will spawn 5-6.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on May 17, 2009, 04:16
Angel of Pain
Difficulty: HARD
Every time you kill an enemy other than a lost soul, one or more lost souls will be generated from its corpse, Pain-Elemental-style.
Weak enemies like formers or imps will create only a single soul, while arch-viles and mancubi will spawn 5-6.

Hm, with this someone could create the "Infested" monster type. Infested monster produce lost souls when killed.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Smiley on May 18, 2009, 16:28
Angel of Pac-Man

Each level is a randomly generated labyrinth with a small room in the middle which has a locked door. To open it, the player must collect all dots. The power pellets are replaced by rocket launchers that can only shoot once before falling apart, they also fall apart in fifty turns after pick up or when you or the enemies walk over them. There are eighteen levels (and types of monsters) and on each level there are four enemies that chase the player, they can be killed though they get back up after 100 turns.

Lvl. 1 - Enemies: Former Humans
Lvl. 2 - Enemies: Former Sergeants
Lvl. 3 - Enemies: Imps
Lvl. 4 - Enemies: Demons
Lvl. 5 - Enemies: Lost Souls
Lvl. 6 - Enemies: Former Captains
Lvl. 7 - Enemies: Cacodemons
Lvl. 8 - Enemies: Hell Knights
Lvl. 9 - Enemies: Former Commandoes
Lvl. 10 - Enemies: Barons of Hell
Lvl. 11 - Enemies: Arachnotrons
Lvl. 12 - Enemies: Arch-viles
Lvl. 13 - Enemies: Pain Elementals
Lvl. 14 - Enemies: Mancubusses
Lvl. 15 - Enemies: Revenants
Lvl. 16 - Enemies: Cyberdemons
Lvl. 17 - Enemies: AoD's
Lvl. 18 - Enemies: JC's
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on May 19, 2009, 01:11
Angel of Pac-Man

Each level is a randomly generated labyrinth with a small room in the middle which has a locked door. To open it, the player must collect all dots. The power pellets are replaced by rocket launchers that can only shoot once before falling apart, they also fall apart in fifty turns after pick up or when you or the enemies walk over them. There are eighteen levels (and types of monsters) and on each level there are four enemies that chase the player, they can be killed though they get back up after 100 turns.

Lvl. 1 - Enemies: Former Humans
Lvl. 2 - Enemies: Former Sergeants
Lvl. 3 - Enemies: Imps
Lvl. 4 - Enemies: Demons
Lvl. 5 - Enemies: Lost Souls
Lvl. 6 - Enemies: Former Captains
Lvl. 7 - Enemies: Cacodemons
Lvl. 8 - Enemies: Hell Knights
Lvl. 9 - Enemies: Former Commandoes
Lvl. 10 - Enemies: Barons of Hell
Lvl. 11 - Enemies: Arachnotrons
Lvl. 12 - Enemies: Arch-viles
Lvl. 13 - Enemies: Pain Elementals
Lvl. 14 - Enemies: Mancubusses
Lvl. 15 - Enemies: Revenants
Lvl. 16 - Enemies: Cyberdemons
Lvl. 17 - Enemies: AoD's
Lvl. 18 - Enemies: JC's

Lvl. 19 - Enemies: Ricks Astleys
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Smiley on May 19, 2009, 14:51
And their attack is singing?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on May 19, 2009, 18:03
And their attack is singing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aJjMOy-Ops (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aJjMOy-Ops) ;)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on May 20, 2009, 13:07
And their attack is singing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aJjMOy-Ops (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aJjMOy-Ops) ;)

Angel of Rick Astley challenge

Ever thought Angel of Death is tough? Rick Astley is the real deal! Now in cathedral you have to fight Rick Astley! And the reward is really worth it.



Spoiler:
To defeat Rick Astley, you have to be deaf (why not blow up few barrels? That would certainly be so loud that your eardrums won't handle). Or you can find a bee hive and use the wax from the hive to cover your ears.
After killing Rick Astley you can grab your hand on the Holy Grail of all noobs, Rick Astley's first demo tape! It deals 8d8 damage to any monster in sight (or should I say hearing?). A must have, for anyone trying to finish the game on Nightmare!

Spoiler2:
Unfortunately, you need a tape player and a good set of speakers. When is a tape player when you need one?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on May 20, 2009, 13:40
To defeat Rick Astley, you have to be deaf (why not blow up few barrels? That would certainly be so loud that your eardrums won't handle). Or you can find a bee hive and use the wax from the hive to cover your ears.

Bee hive... On Mars... Yeah, sure, why not.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on May 20, 2009, 14:04
To defeat Rick Astley, you have to be deaf (why not blow up few barrels? That would certainly be so loud that your eardrums won't handle). Or you can find a bee hive and use the wax from the hive to cover your ears.

Bee hive... On Mars... Yeah, sure, why not.
Evil levitating monsters from hell spitting acid balls... On Mars... Yeah, sure why not.
;P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on May 20, 2009, 14:54
To defeat Rick Astley, you have to be deaf (why not blow up few barrels? That would certainly be so loud that your eardrums won't handle). Or you can find a bee hive and use the wax from the hive to cover your ears.

Bee hive... On Mars... Yeah, sure, why not.
Evil levitating monsters from hell spitting acid balls... On Mars... Yeah, sure why not.
;P
ROTFL! Post of the month! :D

Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on May 20, 2009, 14:56
Evil levitating monsters from hell spitting acid balls... On Mars... Yeah, sure why not.
;P

They're from the portal from Hell! It sounds ok for me that thru the portal from Hell comes demons and evil flying things. But beehive from Hell? I don't think so...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on May 20, 2009, 15:07
Evil levitating monsters from hell spitting acid balls... On Mars... Yeah, sure why not.
;P

They're from the portal from Hell! It sounds ok for me that thru the portal from Hell comes demons and evil flying things. But beehive from Hell? I don't think so...

Well, the zombieman aren't from hell, they are the possesed people. So, why can't there be a possesed bee-keeper? Like people might have took cows to Mars, to provide them with milk, so couldn't they have taken bees?

Jesus Christ, possesed Bee-keeper, possesed Milkman, possesed Mailman, that always knocks twice...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on May 20, 2009, 15:36
Jesus Christ, possesed Bee-keeper, possesed Milkman, possesed Mailman, that always knocks twice...

Edit: Possessed Jesus Christ, possessed Bee-keeper, possessed Milkman, possessed Mailman...


Okay, well. It surely makes sense to bring some possessed bees to Mars, where they can have a good time pollinating those beautiful flowers (probably possessed too) that grow all over the Mars. In case that someone of possessed personnel would want honey stat.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on May 20, 2009, 16:06
Jesus Christ, possesed Bee-keeper, possesed Milkman, possesed Mailman, that always knocks twice...

Edit: Possessed Jesus Christ, possessed Bee-keeper, possessed Milkman, possessed Mailman...


Okay, well. It surely makes sense to bring some possessed bees to Mars, where they can have a good time pollinating those beautiful flowers (probably possessed too) that grow all over the Mars. In case that someone of possessed personnel would want honey stat.

Nooo, people weren't possesed when they came to Mars. They became possesed after the gates to/of Hell had opened.
But, now I am thinking. Were the plants also possesed? Evil droseras, possed yew trees...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Tavana on May 20, 2009, 17:00
But, now I am thinking. Were the plants also possesed? Evil droseras, possed yew trees...

In Doom3 it almost seemed like they possessed the computer systems as well, so maybe we can all have a possessed forum thread, posted on by possessed zombie men and archviles. The cacodemons keep trying to post but even the advanced Doom computers don't know how to interpret the "acid ball" input.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on May 20, 2009, 17:08
Nooo, people weren't possesed when they came to Mars. They became possesed after the gates to/of Hell had opened.
But, now I am thinking. Were the plants also possesed? Evil droseras, possed yew trees...

Mars is a lifeless wasteland, i can tell you.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on May 20, 2009, 23:50
Nooo, people weren't possesed when they came to Mars. They became possesed after the gates to/of Hell had opened.
But, now I am thinking. Were the plants also possesed? Evil droseras, possed yew trees...

Mars is a lifeless wasteland, i can tell you.
But couldn't have the Doom Marine brought his favourite turnip or acorns with him to Mars?

And another question arises. Were there any women within the UAC personel? That would be horryfing if they were possesed through the whole 28-day period |:
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Mr_Dead on May 21, 2009, 01:22
To defeat Rick Astley, you have to be deaf (why not blow up few barrels? That would certainly be so loud that your eardrums won't handle). Or you can find a bee hive and use the wax from the hive to cover your ears.

Bee hive... On Mars... Yeah, sure, why not.
Evil levitating monsters from hell spitting acid balls... On Mars... Yeah, sure why not.
;P
ROTFL! Post of the month! :D
Oh yeah, i have to agree with that one, made me bust out laughing when i read it.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kg on May 24, 2009, 05:57
Angel of Sightseeing

Well, you'll be only once in hell so.....

Pros: Your sight range is increased by 2
Cons: You move 20% slower and can't run (hellruner 2 would return to normal speed, but still you can't run)

Angel of Meditation...

Pros: You gain 150 % of XP, you sense monsters, powerups and levers
Cons: Your HP equals 40 and can't be increased by Ironman, powerups still work though
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Passionario on May 29, 2009, 03:03
Angel of Bliss (as in "Ignorance is...")
Difficulty: Medium
No matter how many bullets you take to the chest, your pain receptors report nothing. You can't see your health percentage, and attempts to examine yourself report your status as 'alive' (rather than scratched/wounded/boosted/etc).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: oohhboy on May 29, 2009, 04:31
Angel of Zombie Apocalypse

There's only one of them right?

The first level starts off with one Former Human Zombie. The next level, it's double that to two. The next level is double that to 4. So on and so on. 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 2048 4096. Drops are normal, no special levels. Depth to be decided Kornel and the limits of the game. Stairs doesn't appear until all zombies are dead. Difficulty only affects the timing and ratio of the zombie types also maybe depth. If there isn't enough space in the level, they spawn in out of line of sight as space becomes available.

Pros

They are only zombies right? Former humans, sergeants, captains and commandos.
Ammo aplenty from drops.
No cyber.

Cons

No special levels.
Holy cow there are a lot of them.

Difficulty. Easy to Extreme dependent on depth
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on May 29, 2009, 05:27
I think it is high time for us, the community, to gather all the ideas (I mean ALL) and choose 5 of the best challenge mode ideas. There are 15 pages, and people don't comment much on other peoples ideas. So, here is the plan:

Anyone who suggested at least one challenge, must choose a challange that he thinks it should be in the next version. He/She must also write, why this challenge HAS to be in the next release. When everyone has posted their ideas, we make a one big poll, and choose 5 best challenges. When they are chosen, comes the biggest challenge. Persuade Kornel, that those challenges are really good.

What do you say?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kg on May 31, 2009, 14:35
Ok let's do the votes! But should we have some deadline for posting challenges? Anyway here's my opinion as for now:

1. Angel of Vampirism
Reason: Vampirism has been always great in many games! Oh yeah Phobos Leecherz! I kind of like idea of not using medpacks.. you can't plan your tactic or save healing items for tight spots so it's a good idea :)
Healing items don't work, but you gain a few hp whenever you kill an enemy.
2. Angel of Shotgun
Reason: We just NEED Shooty challenge!
Starts with standard Shotgun
Can only equip Shotguns/Combats/Double Shotguns
More shells are spawned in lower levels
Perhaps a guaranteed Advanced Combat Shotgun and Double Shotgun at certain level landmarks

3. Angel of Rocketry
Reason: Hell yeah, why would we need anything else than our precious RL?
In this challenge only you're using RL, monsters are behaving normal.. maybe something like more maze levels or sth should be added? Ah, and you start with advanced RL [these are my ideas, but I'm for basic idea of using only RL]
4.Angel of Meditation
Reason: Feats like getting more XP at expense of health are good :)
Pros: You gain 150 % of XP, you sense monsters, powerups and levers
Cons: Your HP equals 40 and can't be increased by Ironman, powerups still work though. [I don't know if I can vote on my own idea, but I would like to see some challenge with experience bonus, it's always attractive :)

5. Angel of Carnage
Reason: Just like any specific weapon type - it just should be in the game.
You start with a chaingun, and cant't unwield it. (easy challenge).

Yeah, I know my explaintations are kind of lame... I just feel that these challenges would be fun, interesting and sometimes it comes from thought that I think many of us had, like 'wtf why there's no shooty challenge, it's so obvious omg?', so I'm voting on these :)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on June 01, 2009, 02:23
Babul, what I meant, that you choose one of your ideas and try to promote it. After everyone does that, we ALL choose five best presentations [;
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kg on June 01, 2009, 12:44
You know.. We should need a new topic for this - first post would be complete updated list of ideas and then we should add pool etc! So... maybe you start it since you came out with idea?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on June 01, 2009, 12:59
hehe, ok, when I have some more time, give me a weeks time
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kg on June 03, 2009, 01:51
New idea!
Angel of Hatman
You like head gear so much that you stole prototype advanced helmet from UAC before going to Hell, sounds quite fair...
Don't know how the helmets will work, but let's say it'll give you some basic bonuses + ability to modding.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on June 03, 2009, 02:01
New idea!
Angel of Hatman
You like head gear so much that you stole prototype advanced helmet from UAC before going to Hell, sounds quite fair...
Don't know how the helmets will work, but let's say it'll give you some basic bonuses + ability to modding.
The challenge means that there has to be a drawback, like, without the helmet you cannot breathe and die...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on June 03, 2009, 07:34
Don't know how the helmets will work, but let's say it'll give you some basic bonuses + ability to modding.
THAT'S what I call a hype. We have NO idea what this stuff will do but we want it regardless xD !
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kg on June 03, 2009, 15:19
So let's say that you love helmets much that you will never stick mods in anything besides helmets :D
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: metroidRL on June 03, 2009, 21:11
angel of confusion
very hard
your head is sooo confused why you are here? why a zombie is shooting you? and what the hell is you gonna kill at bottom?

you gain more experience but when you uses something (e.g a medpack) you switch to a weapon and viceversa.

well since the only "very hard" challenge is AoMs this is another one :p
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kg on June 05, 2009, 03:48
NEW CHALLENGE!!
Angel of Speed
1) Since DoomRL is supposed to be FAST action game... you have to complete each level within specific time limit! 2) You are so scared in being in hell that you feel you would shit your pants if you were longer than 1 minute in this place, and you don't wanna be embarassed... the only moments of peace you feel are when you walk down the stairs, well, you won't find monsters there...
Well, It could be 1) real time (depends on time limit we set, should be something reasonable, but I prefer real time, because it makes you think fast! Maybe something like 1:00 each level, and remaining time is added to the next level limit (maybe there could be some powerups that adds time; and there should be ability to pause game - but when you pause you can't see anything); 2) in game time (turns converted into seconds, so it would be more tactical, which I don't prefer in that challenge)
#2 is already implemented, as Angel of Red Alert. As for #1, it would be cooler to have a global time to finish the game (like 15 minutes)... it'd be DoomRL speedrunning >^_^<
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Frankosity on June 05, 2009, 04:38
DoomRL already has a timed challenge, Angel of Red Alert.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kg on June 05, 2009, 10:56
Yes you're right about Angel of Red Alert, but it's time is constant and if you are invurnerable, you can survive a nuke? But yeah, global real time could be a challenge... I think there's no way to beat game in 15 minutes in real time, but one can try :D
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Thomas on July 02, 2009, 22:54
Yes you're right about Angel of Red Alert, but it's time is constant and if you are invurnerable, you can survive a nuke? But yeah, global real time could be a challenge... I think there's no way to beat game in 15 minutes in real time, but one can try :D

Oh ho ho, I was getting bored of DoomRL but this has given me an idea for my next DoomRL demo.

Content:
Arenas
I've been a busy bee designing my mod for DoomRL (I got a spreadsheet and everything!) and I think I managed to polish my very very old idea of arenas as a challenge.

Basically, it's like Hell's Arena in that there's a big room with pillars and enemies. However, all enemies that spawn are demons that have no need for ammo, like cacodemons. The only way you get ammo is by defeating a wave, at which point the commentator will help you out a little. He might even give you a new gun or a couple of powerups.

And it just keeps going until you die. You can't finish it, he'll eventually spawn too many Cyberdemons and Arch-Viles for you to handle. However, it gives it a high-score system that isn't totally redundant. You'll basically be playing these arenas only to beat your/someone else's high score.

The commentator will also rebuild pillars if you break too many, possibly while chastising you for it. "Try to hit the demons, idiot!"

There could be variations, like:
Beginner Arena: Easy difficulty, healing items are more likely to spawn.
Arena: Normal.
Special Arena: Lots of strong monsters, but guns and powerups are more likely to spawn, making it about normal difficulty.
Underdog Arena: Normal monsters, but guns and powerups are less likely to spawn. Hard difficulty.
Masochist Arena: Brutally difficult, few healing items (but lots of ammo), Blade difficulty.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Visalos on July 03, 2009, 18:37
Angel of Sightseeing

Well, you'll be only once in hell so.....

Pros: Your sight range is increased by 2
Cons: You move 20% slower and can't run (hellruner 2 would return to normal speed, but still you can't run)

Unlocks the Phobos Hell Tourist T-Shirt, "I singlehandedly averted the Apocalypse and all I got was this crappy shirt". 2 point regenerating armor that's so bright and loud Hell's legions suffer a miss chance for just looking at it.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Shinji_Ikari_9th on July 22, 2009, 15:25
Angel of Sightseeing

Well, you'll be only once in hell so.....

Pros: Your sight range is increased by 2
Cons: You move 20% slower and can't run (hellruner 2 would return to normal speed, but still you can't run)

Unlocks the Phobos Hell Tourist T-Shirt, "I singlehandedly averted the Apocalypse and all I got was this crappy shirt". 2 point regenerating armor that's so bright and loud Hell's legions suffer a miss chance for just looking at it.

That's just nuts.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Smiley on July 29, 2009, 22:44
Angel of Misfortune

Difficulty: Nightmare
Rank: Blade?

Congratulations, you are the most unlucky marine alive... for now. Everything you use can malfunction; your weapons will jam, doors will not open, barrels will leak acid all over the place, the precious medkit you want to use turns out to be a dud and pulled levers result you being doused in unsavory substances or spawning the lord of all demons to chase your screaming ass through nine layers of hell into it's personal sanctum for the final unfair confrontation.

Scared yet?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Visalos on August 12, 2009, 02:59
Angel of Misfortune

Difficulty: Nightmare
Rank: Blade?

Congratulations, you are the most unlucky marine alive... for now. Everything you use can malfunction; your weapons will jam, doors will not open, barrels will leak acid all over the place, the precious medkit you want to use turns out to be a dud and pulled levers result you being doused in unsavory substances or spawning the lord of all demons to chase your screaming ass through nine layers of hell into it's personal sanctum for the final unfair confrontation.

Scared yet?

nah, me 'n my cursed extremely rusty -17 silvered combat shotgun named Buck will be FINE!!!...anyone got a magic marker?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on August 12, 2009, 09:24
Angel of Misfortune

Difficulty: Nightmare
Rank: Blade?

Congratulations, you are the most unlucky marine alive... for now. Everything you use can malfunction; your weapons will jam, doors will not open, barrels will leak acid all over the place, the precious medkit you want to use turns out to be a dud and pulled levers result you being doused in unsavory substances or spawning the lord of all demons to chase your screaming ass through nine layers of hell into it's personal sanctum for the final unfair confrontation.

Scared yet?

nah, me 'n my cursed extremely rusty -17 silvered combat shotgun named Buck will be FINE!!!...anyone got a magic marker?
What are you going to write with in in the Doomiverse?
Dolly Porton?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: didit on August 13, 2009, 10:16
angel of surviving comrades.
rank: whatever...

well I'll be damned marine, your some of buddy's actually managed to survive! perhaps their radios crapped out on them or maybe they lost them during combat... what ever the case they'll most likely help you in your crusade to get the fuck out of here, and who cares if they are only packing shotgun and pistols, any helps walking knee deep though the dead is welcome here in the shores of hell!

what if all your buddy's hadn't been turned into mindless zombies, or atleast kept some of their human memorys? eh? well, the idea is that some zombies (former-former-humans) will ignore you (unless you shoot them), be a different colour and attack other monsters. they could give you some fire support or be used as human shields. heh heh heh....
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on August 13, 2009, 11:38
(...) your some of buddy's actually managed to survive!
The goggles ! They do nothing ;_; !
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Generic on August 13, 2009, 14:12
angel of surviving comrades.
rank: whatever...

well I'll be damned marine, your some of buddy's actually managed to survive! perhaps their radios crapped out on them or maybe they lost them during combat... what ever the case they'll most likely help you in your crusade to get the fuck out of here, and who cares if they are only packing shotgun and pistols, any helps walking knee deep though the dead is welcome here in the shores of hell!
So Angel of Rescue or something?
Wait until mods come along, this will most likely be somewhere around the first four that are made. ;)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: didit on August 14, 2009, 03:56
heh, Angel of Rescue sounds much cooler then angel of surviving comrades.

and yeah, chances are that someone will make a mod containing every half-baked idea or item ever thought of on this site.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Fanta Hege on August 22, 2009, 18:44
Angel of Demonology

Diffuculy: Hard
Rank: ???

Humans? You're the only one here boy, no humans in this hell, not even former ones.
All former humans are now replaces with demon counter parts. Good thing is that there are no more pesky little former humans stealing your medipacks.
But neither can you enjoy their precious ammo drops.

On more detail;
Former humans would be replaced with lost souls
Sergeants with imps
Captains with cacodemons
And commandos with anachanotrons

Pros; No need to worry about losing health items to former humans or alike in the first few levels. Possibly slightly more ammo drop generation aswell.
Cons; There's still hell knights and barons that can pick up stuff and you're going to have to be very carefull with your ammo use overall as getting more bullets can be diffucult from the start.


Angel of Smartness.

Diffuculty; Hard/Very Hard
Rank: ???

Yes we know you're smart, but now are your opponents aswell!
Your regular enemies that can pick up weapons can now use them against you aswell! If they have the ammo that is.

Pros: Slightly more challenge, thus none.
Cons: Former humen, Hell knights and barons just became twice as dangerous..

Angels of Guns

Diffuculty; Medium / Hard

Oh guns, lots and lots of guns.. We all love guns.. But wait, where are the other items?!

Detail;
Generally most of the items that spawn are guns and ammo. Health and other items become more of rare as drops and will become rather hard to find.

Pros; No need to worry about running out of weapons and ammo!
Cons; Very little health..
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Krok on August 23, 2009, 03:11
Angel of Matrix

You start with HR 3 but can't wear any armor.

Imo

But there is sure some fun ideas here, I lol'd at angel of angst
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: MaiZure on September 01, 2009, 07:33
Angel of the Arena.


Yes that's the entrance to the arena on Phobos Surface level 1, and this time there aren't only 3 rounds. Can you survive 25 rounds of the arena?

Key difference is you get one minute between rounds to loot the bodies of that last wave.

Difficulty: Medium to Blade
(depending on if you want some healing thrown in or make Cybie come out for the last round)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Dervis on September 01, 2009, 13:01
Angel of the Arena.


Yes that's the entrance to the arena on Phobos Surface level 1, and this time there aren't only 3 rounds. Can you survive 25 rounds of the arena?

Key difference is you get one minute between rounds to loot the bodies of that last wave.

This might be interesting, but there should be random rewards popping out whenever you clear a wave, possibly the contents of a large vault.

Better yet, just make very level an arena level all the way down to Cybie. Arena levels are known to have some items and powerups lying around.

Quote
Difficulty: Medium to Blade
(depending on if you want some healing thrown in or make Cybie come out for the last round)

Revenant pack > Cybie everyday.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Gargulec on September 01, 2009, 13:03
I like Angel of The Arena mode idea very much!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Zi on September 01, 2009, 14:35
Angel of Balance

Every level has guaranteed a minimum amount of certain items to be found, but you won't get much more than that either.
No uniques, too.

Angel of Imbalance

Lots of uniques, lots of items - and lots of dangerous enemies!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: MaiZure on September 02, 2009, 07:32
Angel of Anticipation

These baddies know where you are at all times (just like Cybie). No more sneaking around the outside of the level to avoid trouble because it will find you and fast!

Difficulty: Medium
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Dervis on September 13, 2009, 14:32
CyberAngel

You taken so many battle injuries and had so many cybernetic limb replacements you don't even know how much of you is human anymore. You're faster and stronger than any other marine out there but noone can give back your good looks. Oh, and the maintenance is terrible.

You start the game with equipped armor Cybernetic [4/4] 200% +20% speed, -50% knockback. You can't remove this armor and if it gets destroyed you lose the game. In compensation, you can use green, blue, red and unique armors for 10, 20, 40 and 50% armor repair respectively. Good luck.

P.S. - The numbers will need tweaking, so don't take these as final. Increasing the Cybernetic to [6/6] or the armor repair seem like real possibilities. Anyway, stay away from Barons and Acid barrels :P.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Fanta Hege on October 05, 2009, 13:00
Angel of Big Mess.

Every level you enter, will be filled randomly with barrels, barrels and more barrels in the same way of "Khehehe this will be a mess.." level feel. And I do mean every level.
Yes, even special levels.

Diffuculty; Hard?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Sachiko on October 06, 2009, 02:29
That challenge would promise to be ludicrously hilarious. One shot, and boom! Everyone is sent to to hell and beyond!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Passionario on October 06, 2009, 02:54
Angel of Stasis
"Why evolve further when you're already on top of the food chain?"
Pros: You start the game with red armor, a chaingun, a double shotgun and two large medikits.
Cons: You can't gain XP. Ever.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 06, 2009, 04:37
That'd need a bit more buffing - Level 0 with a Red Armour, Chaingun, DShotty and 2 Medikits? I could do an AoPc without any startup gear easier.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Passionario on October 06, 2009, 05:32
I could do an AoPc without any startup gear easier.

Could you do it without picking any defensive traits, though?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 06, 2009, 05:40
What's that got to do with the challenge being hard? XP
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Jimmy on October 06, 2009, 10:27
The angel of stasis, or at least the concept of it, sounds cool to me.  The player would be very weak compared to other modes, which would necessitate lots of running away.  At the same time, with no experience to gain, running away makes great sense.  It might be a good idea to let the player start with a nuke, as cybie would be extremely difficult to kill on this mode even with a bfg and lots of cells. 

Uniques would be fun in this mode as they would would rarely be incompatible with your "build" (stuff like the minigun would be problematic I guess) 
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on October 06, 2009, 15:57
Anyone remember Angel of Degeneration (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,1168.msg15624.html#msg15624) (damn, we need a better name) ? This takes the concept a little further - you start out invincible trait-wise but you never kill for XP (which you constantly lose after every stairs taken), only for items.
Also - while other challenge modes focus on blocking something for the entire game, here you actually grow weaker over time...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 06, 2009, 16:10
Do you get to choose which traits you have at Gamestart and which you lose?

AoPc in reverse :D
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on October 06, 2009, 16:52
Do you get to choose which traits you have at Gamestart and which you lose?

AoPc in reverse :D
Having a choice is always better than not, right ?
Of course - we might have to start with "only" 20 traits, as that's as high as the clvl limit gets ;)...
This should make the last 5 levels... quite entertaining ]:>.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Madtrixr on October 06, 2009, 16:59
Has someone already suggested Angel of Colorblind?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on October 06, 2009, 17:24
Has someone already suggested Angel of Colorblind?
Depends on what you mean by that... Also - RTFT ;P.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Madtrixr on October 06, 2009, 17:42
Depends on what you mean by that... Also - RTFT ;P.

Well, I did, but I didn't see anything (i'll admit that it was at about midnight, so I wasn't exactly paying close attention). and what I mean is that you can't tell anything apart without the descriptions. Like if you see armor, you don't know if it's green or blue or whatever unless you put it on. You can't tell a former human apart from a sergeant until you get shotgunned. I'd say it's about easy to medium. it's not very inventive, but it's all I have.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on October 06, 2009, 18:11
Well, I did, but I didn't see anything (i'll admit that it was at about midnight, so I wasn't exactly paying close attention). and what I mean is that you can't tell anything apart without the descriptions. Like if you see armor, you don't know if it's green or blue or whatever unless you put it on. You can't tell a former human apart from a sergeant until you get shotgunned. I'd say it's about easy to medium. it's not very inventive, but it's all I have.
Sound similar to Angel of Hallucinations (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,1168.msg10313.html#msg10313) and Angel of Insanity (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,1168.msg14023/topicseen.html#msg14023) ;).

What if instead of mislabeling everything as something else, everything appeared identical? All enemies looked like demons, all guns looked like pistols, something like that?
Now that I think about it... Having three different symbols (first for floor/acid/lava/water, second for the doomguy, third for EVERYTHING ELSE) would be hilarious to watch... All the attack animations would, of course, stay normal. And messages shouldn't give away anything (i.e: you only see what you picked up once you had)...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on October 07, 2009, 03:22
It could be an angel of shortsightedness.

You can only make out objects that are 2-3 tiles far from you, all objects further than that are shown as wall for all wall tiles and doors (would be fun to search for them)), lever for all objects and items, floor for all surfaces, and generic monster sign (probably red "m" letter) for all monsters.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 07, 2009, 03:25
I Don't like it. It's like the new Angel of Darkness, but worse as you can see what's coming :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Blade on October 07, 2009, 03:34
I Don't like it. It's like the new Angel of Darkness, but worse as you can see what's coming :P

No, it's a little different. You still can fire at any monster that enters your FoV without To-Hit penalty and, hey, you're short-sighted, not deaf, so you can distinguish monsters by sounds they make. :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Dervis on October 07, 2009, 04:04
Has someone already suggested Angel of Colorblind?
It's already on the game. It's called AoB Nightmare! past the Chained Courts. :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 07, 2009, 04:16
I'll take your word for it - You're the only one to get that far :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on October 07, 2009, 07:28
It could be an angel of shortsightedness.
How about seeing only the tiles next to the doomguy (i.e.: all 8 of them) and nothing else at all ?
Then again, I have a feeling I already suggested that as Angel of Blindness...

Could be fun, though. You'd either use up a LOT of ammo or stumble through the levels trying to melee everything you DON'T see. Still doable, as the messages would still tell you where special levels and uniques are present and when you hear something writhing in pain because you accidentally shot it ;).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Madtrixr on October 07, 2009, 08:23
It's already on the game. It's called AoB Nightmare! past the Chained Courts. :P

Only you would know, Dervis. How do you do it?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Madtrixr on October 07, 2009, 12:24
I just had another idea.

Angel of Evil Dead (working title)

Basic idea: You start with a chainsaw and an advanced double shotgun, but you can't swap them out.

I'll wait for everyone's input before I go any further.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on October 07, 2009, 13:03
Angel of Evil Dead (working title)
Fight through SWARMS of formers ? Sounds awesome ! Then again - we don't need our weapons locked for that. How about simply Angel of Zombies :> ?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Madtrixr on October 07, 2009, 13:09
Well, you need at LEAST the chainsaw locked, because it's not evil dead if you don't have a chainsaw.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on October 07, 2009, 15:18
Well, you need at LEAST the chainsaw locked, because it's not evil dead if you don't have a chainsaw.
It doesn't have to be ED to be awesome ^^'.
With or without the chainsaw - sounds fun, relaxing and quite easy... just the type of challenge we need more of.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 07, 2009, 15:24
In addition, all levels are Maze levels, and Shotgunguys/Commandos are everywhere.

And no armor and medikits/half ammo and powerups are spawned :D
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Madtrixr on October 07, 2009, 17:08
Fight through SWARMS of formers ? Sounds awesome ! Then again - we don't need our weapons locked for that. How about simply Angel of Zombies :> ?

It doesn't have to be ED to be awesome ^^'.
With or without the chainsaw - sounds fun, relaxing and quite easy... just the type of challenge we need more of.

You might be right Vestin, maybe just a zombie beatdown mode would be just as fun. Maybe you just start with a Chainsaw and a double shotty (not-locked) and go from there...Either way, I'm sure it would be pretty enjoyable.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on October 07, 2009, 17:29
You might be right Vestin, maybe just a zombie beatdown mode would be just as fun. Maybe you just start with a Chainsaw and a double shotty (not-locked) and go from there...Either way, I'm sure it would be pretty enjoyable.
It would be a nice twist - only (relatively) weak enemies but lots of them.
I guess giving the player two great weapons at the beginning might make it TOO easy... but then again - I'm not that strongly against it. I simply think you'd find them on your own pretty easily.

That made me think... How many more FHs can the Chained Court fit >:] ? If there'd be enough to scare the player into staying inside the starting room, we'll have a really nice zombie infestation scenario...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Madtrixr on October 07, 2009, 17:51
And maybe that's all you get. Shotty ammo, and maybe some medpacks, but no weapons other than the SSG and the Chainsaw.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Vestin on October 07, 2009, 18:37
And maybe that's all you get. Shotty ammo, and maybe some medpacks, but no weapons other than the SSG and the Chainsaw.
This would essentially be locking you with these weapons ;).
You know what ? There's plenty of room for both. Let's make the doomguy start with DS and the chainsaw... on N! AoZ >:] (no locking, of course). It would only be fitting to give him a fighting chance with all those FH sergeants on Phobos Surface xP. The easier modes would start you out with a regular pistol, though...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Madtrixr on October 07, 2009, 19:08
Fair enough.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Journey on October 07, 2009, 21:16
I think a mode where instead of what was suggested, greatly increase the (negative) effect of distance on accuracy will be a novel way to play.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Thomas on October 07, 2009, 23:25
I think a mode where instead of what was suggested, greatly increase the (negative) effect of distance on accuracy will be a novel way to play.

Yeah, this sounds great. Needs to increase shotgun damage dropoff as well though.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 08, 2009, 01:30
Player accuracy drops.

Monster accuracy INCREASES with range.

Huzzah for Angel of Closecombat.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on October 08, 2009, 01:41
Okay, I know this is just stupid, but hey, I'm bored.

Every (normal) floor has a cybie. Fight or flight? Up to you. Maybe boost your natural damage resistance and HP.

Maybe call it either "Angel of Cyber" or "Angel of Oh-Shit-Where-Did-They-Get-All-Those-Parts?!?"

edit: Thank you Madtrixr for reminding me about JC. On Level 26, JC greets the player after the initial message, something along the lines of "So. Despite my best efforts, and some of my most powerful creations, a mortal has still managed to reach me in my sanctum. No matter. Prepare youself, so that I may have some sport!"
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 08, 2009, 01:51
What appears on dlevel 25, then?

And what about exp values for Cyber, then?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on October 08, 2009, 02:15
Okay, normal levels have dumbed down cybies that have less stats in general, with exp values equal to that of an Arachnotron. It's not like you're gonna be able to take one down until you at least get a BFG, and even then ou're gonna want to save your cells for the final cybie, which would just be a normal one.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 08, 2009, 02:32
You've got to make them at least WORTH killing. I don't want an arachnotron's puny exp value for killing even a mini-cybie.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on October 08, 2009, 03:21
Hmmm.... Arch-Vile exp, maybe?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 08, 2009, 03:23
608 isn't much of a difference to (iirc) 452.

You'd have to work out something that makes it worthwhile but dangerous.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on October 08, 2009, 03:33
Yeah... but it can't be too much. Like, at least 200 away from the AoD.

also: the DoomRL Wiki says 263 exp for an Arachnotron.. now I'm confused.. :/
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 08, 2009, 03:39
My guess was wrong then - Like most lategame enemies, I assumed it was 452.

Also, the AoD has an exp value? O_o
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on October 08, 2009, 03:42
Yep, wiki says 1000.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 08, 2009, 03:47
Bah, i'll have to check that during my next AoB game that gets up to UC.

Dammit.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Jimmy on October 08, 2009, 06:41
I like this angel of cybie idea a lot, but I think it'd be cooler to have the cybie invulnerable until the last floor.   Then it would be like he's been hunting you and it isn't until then that you're ready to turn and fight- like the nemesis in resident evil 3.  Angel of Nemesis would be a good name for the mode, actually!  Just make cybie show up on all non-special floors starting from something like level 5 or 10,

I could see this mode making hellrunner very worth picking up, along with cat's eye or intuition 3.  You'd have to play with a level of caution on par with AoB in order to not get sniped by cybie or obliterated when you turn a corner and run into him.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on October 08, 2009, 07:31
I thought of the invincibility thing, but then decided against it. If you can pull off a kill, it'll give you a nice exp bonus, and there'd be some who'd want to attempt a 100% kill rate.. unless it could be made not to count? I could see it working like that.

Oh, and I never thought of it in the Nemesis perspective.. damn, that IS a good idea.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Madtrixr on October 08, 2009, 08:56
What appears on dlevel 25, then?

JC?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on October 08, 2009, 08:59
JC?
Then what appears on Level 26?

We came up with a solution to the Level 25 Cyberdemon issue.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 08, 2009, 16:05
GUTS W/DRAGONSLAYER!

A new challenger approaches!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Madtrixr on October 08, 2009, 17:02
GUTS W/DRAGONSLAYER!

A new challenger approaches!

I LIKE IT!!!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on October 08, 2009, 17:24
That would be child's play. Compared to the God Hand and it's legions, the forces of Hell seem wimpy indeed ;).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Fanta Hege on October 09, 2009, 06:28
Guts would be overkill, how about JR for a Doom easter egg reference?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Madtrixr on October 09, 2009, 08:18
Guts would be overkill, how about JR for a Doom easter egg reference?

HA! I love that. He attacks you with his hair. :D
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Frankosity on October 09, 2009, 12:16
You could implement such a challenge by having the Cyberdemon spawn on the up-stair a certain amount of time after you enter the level, after which it makes a beeline straight for you, giving you the option either to try and fight it or run like hell. disabling (you can't technically KILL it until L25) the Cyberdemon could give you a hefty XP bonus and increase your time limit on the next level before he re-appears. Levels 25 and 26 proceed as normal.

For balance, it might be prudent to downgrade its' weapons, or remove his rocket launcher altogether but give him the ability to smash straight through walls, ala Nemesis.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Malek Deneith on October 09, 2009, 12:40
For balance, it might be prudent to downgrade its' weapons, or remove his rocket launcher altogether but give him the ability to smash straight through walls, ala Nemesis.

Trivia: From my one experience Cybie is far more dangerous with his fists than with RL - I guess that's due to no reload time between attacks :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Jimmy on October 09, 2009, 13:43
I like frankosity's ideas.  It might be difficult to code it so cybie would intentionally smash walls, though.  Maybe have him not use the rocket launcher until halfway in the game, or something like that?  Could have a special entrance message on the floor when he first will use the rocket launcher.  Nemesis actually used a rocket launcher in RE too, but not until later in the game. 

It would be cool to have normal music until he enters at which point it switches to the cyberdemon walking track.  If you do it where you have a headstart to finish the floor before he shows up, the mode would become similar in the timed aspect to angel of red alert, but handled in a way more like bubble bobble (anyone remember the white ghost that came after you when you spent too long on a floor?)

Actually, having a weaker (but still strong) cybie used for the levels other than the last would still work- the nemesis was easier earlier in the game than at the end in RE too. 

Anyway, the example from resident evil need be no more than inspiration- the key is just having to deal with a cyberdemon of yet undetermined strength on each or many of the floors before the end.  Something like running into him on every 5th floor could also potentially work.   
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on October 09, 2009, 17:54
You could implement such a challenge by having the Cyberdemon spawn on the up-stair a certain amount of time after you enter the level, after which it makes a beeline straight for you, giving you the option either to try and fight it or run like hell.
And what of the ass-kicking marines among us? There needs to be a slight possibility of getting a 100% game.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 09, 2009, 18:06
You start with a Plasma Rifle :D
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on October 09, 2009, 18:08
But that would stop the other monsters being useful for a while... except for the Cyber's meatshields.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on October 09, 2009, 18:13
the nemesis was easier earlier in the game than at the end in RE too.
In my experience, this isn't technically true. Killing him with the railcannon is one of the easiest Nemesis parts of the game.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Jimmy on October 09, 2009, 18:55
You've got me there, hehe.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 09, 2009, 18:57
Hey, you START with a Plasma rifle. I didn't say anything about extra cells :D
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on October 09, 2009, 19:27
But then the Chained Court comes along...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 09, 2009, 19:55
Well, if you've got a better idea, post away :D
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on October 09, 2009, 20:05
Damn. You got me there.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 09, 2009, 20:09
Something i've learnt, but don't necessarily practice:

Only criticize if you have a better idea :D
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on October 09, 2009, 20:13
Too true  :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: raekuul on October 09, 2009, 21:39
Hey, you START with a Plasma rifle. I didn't say anything about extra cells :D

Heh, maybe a mode like this should echo the other aspect of Ao%: No Bonus Stages
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 09, 2009, 21:45
Ao%?

You mean Ao100?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Frankosity on October 12, 2009, 11:55
And what of the ass-kicking marines among us? There needs to be a slight possibility of getting a 100% game.

Well, if you're fast enough, you could potentially evade it altogether, depending on how many turns you get before he turns up. Doesn't Angel of Red Alert give you something like 3 minutes of in-game time before the nuke detonates? You could have 1-2 minutes before he spawns in, so a fast enough player could still get 100%.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on October 23, 2009, 07:42
We're all talking about fighting with Cyberdemon. But what about fighting FOR Cyberdemon. You start with cybie's launcher, 250 hp, armor and infinite rockets BUT... You couldn't use any items from any levels, except small globes with their healing of 10hp.
As for last level you fight average player with average build. In 26 lvl you fight YOURSELF(who'd win?).
What about this.
Another idea. Very easy challenge.
Angel of Uniques
Any item you find is an unique, but enemies also use them. Enemies without item using has an *3 damage,armor and HP.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on October 23, 2009, 07:45
It's in need of some major balancing... but maybe one of the modding teams could put something like this together?

EDIT:  Also, that would make it too easy to fill in your uniques list :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on October 23, 2009, 08:32
I have LOTS of ideas. Another one:
Angel of Jedi:
You're the one with the Force. All those demons are puny servants of dark side. You're here to clean this place from evil.
You don't wear/wield any armor/weapon except of force. When you target an enemy it suffers one of those effects:
1)Force Push - enemy is driven away far(6-10 sqr.) away;
2)Force Pull - enemy is driven close to you;
3)Force Absorb - enemy can't hurt you for appr. 70 turns;
4)Force Shield - enemy can't get hurt for appr. 40 turns;
5)Force Drain - enemy loses half of HP to you;
6)Force Lightning - enemy's instantly killed;
7)Force Trick - enemy fights for you for appr. 30 turns;
8)Force Heal - enemy is boosted for 200% HP;
9)Force Speed - any enemy's move lasts 0,25 second;
10)Force Stun - enemy is stunned for 75 turns;
If you target a barrel it explodes, targeting yourself does nothing, targeting empty floor transports there closest thing(item,barrel or enemy), targeting door it will open, targeting item it will instantly use. Any force move costs 2 sec.
What about this?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Tavana on October 24, 2009, 20:28
I have LOTS of ideas. Another one:
Angel of Jedi:
*---*
What about this?
This could be a mod, maybe. Not a challenge mode, though. Challenge Modes make the existing game harder/more fun, not change the very basis of the game.

That said, keep 'em coming.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Fanta Hege on October 24, 2009, 20:48
Angel of 1 Monster

Cause who needs variaty anyway?

For each level, there is only one type of enemy present which is randomly chosen depending on the depth they spawn on, ofcourse there will be less enemies generally or maybe not. Better hope they aren't viles!

Angel of Min Carnage

They say you couldn't even hit a barn door, and they are right! And even if you did it probably didn't even do a scratch.

Opposite of Max Carnage. Former Sergeants shall flourish!


Angel of Technology

-All- powerups are replaced with random mods/armor/weapons.  A Whizkid dreamland! ..or nightmare.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Aki on October 24, 2009, 21:24
You can't do number 1 with the current system, it'd be good for a mod though!

Also, V wouldn't be that scary. R would O_o

I like the other 2, though :>
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on October 24, 2009, 21:58
Or a freakish bug that spawns in 20 or so JC's o_O
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on October 25, 2009, 12:46
Angel of Betrayal
You understand your devil masters won't do anything good, so you think to betray them. Ha-ha! What they could set against you?

You start as one of the following and level-up as the following within corresponding levels:
1)Former Human -> Sergeant -> Captain -> Commando ->Aracho;
2)Demon->Hell Knight -> Cacodemon -> Hell Baron -> Mancubus;
3)Lost soul -> Revenant -> Pain elemental -> Arch-Vile -> Cyberdemon.
Imps are loosers, you can't play as them :);
Sorry for the lenghts, unbalanced;
As always, the weakest turn up to strongest.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: knlbr on November 03, 2009, 18:05
an idea i've had today:
Angel of Retribution

But John, you are the demons.
and then John was a Cyberdemon.

Pros: You are the Cyberdemon. You sit in the arena waiting for marines to come so you can shoot rockets at them. Different tactics could be developed for different types of marines.
Cons: Have you ever fought CD in AoMr? Getting to him is probably harder than killing the poor guy...

Marines could be taken from your Mortem or generated based on a decent build for certain challenges (AoB, AoMr, AoSh...). Nukes would be placed on the ground once triggered, and if you get to them fast enough, you can shoot them out.
new tactics could be developed, for example, the problem with AoMr is that they can shoot and reload faster than you can even move, let alone fire/reload. What you'd have to do would go behind a corner, and employ a "prepared" tactic, that allows you to fire at the marine as soon as he comes into view, sort of a reaction fire if anyone's ever played XCom.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on November 05, 2009, 02:06
Yeah, XCom! True, sectoids died after just coming into sight range. Looks close to my idea of fighting through lelvels. And cymerdemon is watching you, are you in his sight range or not. So you as a human can shoot him from the other edge of map.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on November 05, 2009, 02:31
Angel of 1 Monster

Cause who needs variaty anyway?

For each level, there is only one type of enemy present which is randomly chosen depending on the depth they spawn on, ofcourse there will be less enemies generally or maybe not. Better hope they aren't viles!
You can't do number 1 with the current system, it'd be good for a mod though!
So, you can't force it to spawn a "monster cave" on every level?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: raekuul on November 05, 2009, 10:20
Angel of Technology is one I'd be doing all the time... but what would we do about (1) the wall and (2) invulnerability globes?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: X-Heiko on November 12, 2009, 10:42
How about an Angel of... say, Blindness or whatever would be a good name.

You can't see. As a compensation, you can hear very well (indicating things that made sounds on the map, just like... was it "intuition"?) and shotguns that you wield have extra spread. Since you can hear where enemies are, you can still fire in their general direction, but you suffer a big accuracy penalty. So generally, Angel of Shotgunnery with extra bam and less vision.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on November 12, 2009, 12:34
Angel of Double Angel(or something)
You've always been number 2.Yeah, really 2. And that teached you that 2 is cooler than 1. Now all that you see is doubled. And that results in:
- Doubled damage(for you and monsters);
- Doubled amount of enemies and ammo;
- Doubled amount of "special" levels(almost no ordinary complex. In every level you feel there is something unusual there");
- Doubled chance to hit and dodge(so great chance that ToHit is>100. In that case there is chance to do 4X damage);
- Doubled xp needed to level-up;
- Traits are double-powered(Ammochain doubles the rate of fire, gun katta and blademaster gives 2 free moves when triggered, intuition is now a 1-level trait);
So it goes. The rest of thing that could be doubled if doubled would be useless.

And another:
Angel of Highlander
You're immortal. Well, almost immortal. Instead of just taking hits and loose health, you have 10% chance of just dropping dead on hit. Place your bets.(Stealed from Crimsonland)
Not harder that an usual game, just remember that any enemy caries deadly danger.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: X-Heiko on November 22, 2009, 07:54
Angel of Escape

You escape hell, rather than venturing into it. You start at level 24 with your fists and need to adapt serious stealth play to reach the Phobos Base entrance, where everything seems to be easy once you've gotten past hell, which it isn't - a Cyberdemon guards your escape ship!

If this proves impossible, players should gain XP for not having been noticed by monsters when exiting a level. Also, maybe increase weapon drops a bit so that the player even has a chance to get a weapon without fighting an Archvile bare-handedly.


Angel of Growth

You start the game with 30 instead of 50 HP. If your health is lower than (50% + (20% *(Ironman Level))) (that is between 50% and 110%), you regain one HP per turn. You are a bit weak so you have to decide between wearing armor or using guns any heavier than pistols. "Tough as Nails" and "Badass" are disabled.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Thomas on November 22, 2009, 16:39
Angel of Highlander
You're immortal. Well, almost immortal. Instead of just taking hits and loose health, you have 10% chance of just dropping dead on hit. Place your bets.(Stealed from Crimsonland)
Not harder that an usual game, just remember that any enemy caries deadly danger.

I'll just pinch this idea quickly.

Angel of Highlander
You're immortal! Well, okay. Not quite immortal. You don't have a health bar or anything, but every time somebody hits you, you have a 1% chance to die. Getting hit increases this chance, too! But it's okay, you can heal to reduce the chance.

Getting hit by an enemy: Increases chance by 1-5%, depending on strength
Hit by nuke: Increases chance by 100%, then hits you again. This hit will kill you if it passes the chance.
Small heal: Reduces chance by 5%
Large heal/Berserk/Invincibility: Reduces chance by 25%
Supercharge/Megasphere: Reduces chance down to 1%
Armour passively decreases the chance by 2% times armour value. If this decreases it to a negative number, you're invincibile until it goes back to 1% or higher.

EDIT: Mm. I don't really like the idea of suddenly dying on 1% chance due to unluckiness.

Addendum to Angel of Highlander:
If you get hit and it passes the chance, your character goes "Oh damn it, that hurt!" and it increases the chance by 11-15% instead of 1-5%.

You can't die, but if the chance increases beyond 100%, the game finishes because you're too badly injured to continue.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: X-Heiko on November 23, 2009, 01:32
Hey, but this way, dying would be quite a bad luck based thing. Also, what's the point of immortality if your chance to die just increases? Even with a constant chance of 1% and if I calculated correctly, you'd statistically have a too high chance to die (40% or so) after a few tens of hits already.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Thomas on November 23, 2009, 03:13
Hey, but this way, dying would be quite a bad luck based thing. Also, what's the point of immortality if your chance to die just increases? Even with a constant chance of 1% and if I calculated correctly, you'd statistically have a too high chance to die (40% or so) after a few tens of hits already.

It's actually 70 hits before it reaches 50-50 (I calculated too). That's why I suggested:
Addendum to Angel of Highlander:
If you get hit and it passes the chance, your character goes "Oh damn it, that hurt!" and it increases the chance by 11-15% instead of 1-5%.

You can't die, but if the chance increases beyond 100%, the game finishes because you're too badly injured to continue.
So it's like a normal game but as you get more damaged, all enemies become a lot more dangerous. At 40% pain chance, a couple of former humans could take you out.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: X-Heiko on November 23, 2009, 03:31
But then, the difference to actual hitpoints is not that big. Also, it's a complicated mechanic for a challenge if you ask me. I think a better idea would be making the player invulnerable but giving a totally different restriction as to when they die, such as having to kill a certain amount of enemies to keep up their countdown which kills them when it runs out.

And "70" is part of the set "a few tens", or at least that's what I meant ^^
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on November 23, 2009, 04:15
Actually in it's core (Crimsonland) that was quite an insta-death. 10% to die - you must be very lucky to survive and died within the next few minutes. So really there should be lower(say 5%), and it increases by 0.1%, but NO decreasing.(Makes useless some traits, like in AoPC);

Another Crimsonland idea(unbalanced and similar to AoRA):
Angel of Death Clock:
You die exactly in 30 minutes(1800 moves). You can't escape your destiny but feel free to go on spree.Tick-tock.
Also one immortality challenge.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Ruldra on November 26, 2009, 06:25
I didn't read the thread so forgive me if there's something similar posted already:

Angel of Blindness

You've been blind for most of your life, but you're so badass it didn't stop you from joining the army!

You start the game with Intuition (2) and LOS is removed. You never get to see what enemies you're facing, you can only see the red dots. You'll have to listen to their weapons and pain sounds to identify them. Also you'll never see equipment on the ground, you'll have to be on the exact square to feel it. You can sense the powerups though.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on November 26, 2009, 06:33
I didn't read the thread so forgive me if there's something similar posted already:

Angel of Blindness

You've been blind for most of your life, but you're so badass it didn't stop you from joining the army!

You start the game with Intuition (2) and LOS is removed. You never get to see what enemies you're facing, you can only see the red dots. You'll have to listen to their weapons and pain sounds to identify them. Also you'll never see equipment on the ground, you'll have to be on the exact square to feel it. You can sense the powerups though.

You do not see barrels, walls... Blade difficulty at least
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: X-Heiko on November 26, 2009, 08:14
Yeah, I've posted that idea, too and I think it would rock since it makes the game different and a lot harder.

I'd say you can smell fuel barrels. About the acid: Depends on the concentration and type, but for the game: why not? I don't know about the smell of napalm, though. The idea is: You can smell barells.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on November 26, 2009, 11:34
Hey, I posted the idea too, with the name: Angel of Oracle.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on November 26, 2009, 12:22
And another now (imagine, NOT stealend from Crimsonland)
Angel of God
You're the almighty god which came to hell to deplete this unholy place. Unfortunately, devil came here right before you, and granted all enemies immortality and infinite ammo. But that devil din't count barrel and acid\lava.

You are immortal. Fully immortal. The enemies are almost, they take damage from barrels and acid\lava. When enemie takes enough damage to die it drops ammo. If enemie wasn't supposed to do so, it drops 3 rockets. Flying enemies drop when took 100 dmg(and walk, taking damage from dangereous surface). You can't go off a level unless you clear it. And when you destroy barrel, it reincarnates in 10 turns.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Almafeta on November 26, 2009, 12:49
When was the last version with AoD&D?

(I feel like because it won, I now kinda have an obligation to beat it - I've been playing lots of AoRA lately for the same reason.)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Madtrixr on November 26, 2009, 17:59
When was the last version with AoD&D?

(I feel like because it won, I now kinda have an obligation to beat it - I've been playing lots of AoRA lately for the same reason.)

0.9.8.10 right?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on November 27, 2009, 00:43
Yep. You win 20 points :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: felttippen on November 28, 2009, 06:22
Angel of Quake

combat knife-> axe
pistol goes out
shotgun stays
dshotgun stays
chaingun -> nailgun(weaker than chaingun) ,supernailgun(stronger than chaingun)
RL stays
grenade launcher
plasma->thunderbolt (probably 2d7)x6 and ability to short circit in liquids for 300 damage

quad damage
pentagram of protection
ring of invisibility

new enemies(Yeti!!!)
probably new special levels
endboss shub niggurath

perhaps somebodys got ideas how to alter gameplay, cuz i cant think of anything right now.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on November 28, 2009, 14:16
And what for a challenge? This is surelly a mod, because no challenge.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: felttippen on November 28, 2009, 15:05
it should only be playable on N! difficulty
the challenge would result from the player not being used to the new mix of enemies and the changes to core gameplay whose exact properties escape me at this moment
Title: Angel of Half-Life
Post by: Shoop da Whoop on December 04, 2009, 12:11
Angel of Half-Life (just for fun)

Description: "Yes. Finally. The exit... But stop! Where the hell stairs were gone??? Damn. Anyway, i must go down. It's time to fly! Vertically!!"

The challenge is called so because each time you go to the next level you lose half of your current health, rounded up (if needed). Armour isn't lose.
But, the each healing stuff works with 1,5 increased efficiency: small health globe gives +30 hp instead of +20 (fix me if i'm wrong); and Megacharge gives you 300 health points! Yarrrr!!1
Vampirism and other things connected with hp may be increased or not; i think, they must be reworked too.

Difficulty: medium to hard.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on December 06, 2009, 02:23
Angel of Phasing

Description: "Oh hell, now I can't even walk straight.  Shouldn't have quaffed that last bottle before charging the base..."

This challenge involves completing the game while having a rather bad case of "teleportitis".  Each second of game time taken has a high (> 50%) chance to be phasing, at the end of the second.  Modes like invulnerability and berserk can alleviate this a little by giving you normal control (no phasing) while the effects are in place; phasing and homing phasing devices will still work as intended.  Running will paradoxically reduce your chance of phasing ("you're moving fast enough that the dimension rifts are missing you"), but will not completely remove it.  Knock-back, when it occurs, will apply in the same direction after you phase if it is time to do so; AoE damage from some weapon attacks will occur in situ before the phase.  To compensate for the much higher chance of ending up in lava or acid, all boots have 150% durability on pick-up.  Getting either 100% kills on all difficulty levels or completing Nightmare! ought to count as a major achievement.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Someone7 on December 18, 2009, 18:43
I didn't read this whole thread to know if this has been suggested before:

Angel of Doom (or Original or something like that)

-No Uniques
-No level gaining or Traits
-Levels not randomly generated, they appear like mini versions of the original levels
-There is no inventory screen, you just have one of every weapon you pick up and a maximum ammo and must use medkits and such immediately
-Armor acts more like health (thus no Red Armor)
-Unlimited ability to run (you never tire in the original)

Basically a mode that makes DoomRL as close to a clone of the original as a roguelike can be.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Journey on December 18, 2009, 19:22
Angel of Doom (or Original or something like that)
I like this idea - it could be interesting.
Maybe it still has some randomness but guaranteed items.

The player does need some of the benefits that would ordinarily come with traits, though, or enemies need to be toned down in power - as enemies currently are balanced against a trait-using doomguy - and traits make a huge different in power.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Someone7 on December 18, 2009, 20:05
I think that knowing where things will be guaranteed (monsters and items) plus unlimited running is a decent trade-off for no leveling. It's also supposed to be a challenge.

Other changes might include:

-No weapons need to be reloaded except shotguns
-Berserk packs increase fist-damage 10 fold and effects last the entire level (no armor bonus)
-By Armor acting more like health, I mean armor is now basically a powerup. You run over green armor, you get 100% armor, blue is 200%.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: leonresevil2 on December 18, 2009, 20:22
It seems like there are a lot of mod and total conversion ideas in here. On that note, there are a lot of posts in here, I tried to read them as I could.
Not sure if the newer ideas are being considered, but I have come up with some (which may have been posted similarly already, I am sorry if they are). If I have accidentally copied your idea, at least that means you have my support for the idea! Anyways, my ideas:

1.Angel of Rockets: Only able to use Rocket and Missile Launchers, ammo will obviously be limited so technique is required to succeed, but game may be easier on higher difficulties since mancubi and remnants will appear earlier to drop rockets. Difficulty: Hard.

2.Angel of Hotfoot: "You've always had some hot, sweaty feet. These military boots don't seem to help much either. Seems like your sweat, combined with the evils of Hell, leaves the floor tarnished." Each step has a 1%-3% chance of creating lava (maybe acid instead) where you just moved from, possibly even on doors, water, or acid. Dodging back and forth will be more risky. Environmental suits will be more important in some instances. Difficulty: Medium. (estimate)

3.Angel of 100 tweak: Same concept as before, but now every 10th level is an arena with a special boss, probably human, wielding one of the advanced weapons or uniques. Possibly make it so these enemies are the only way to get uniques in the challenge. Scale the types of uniques to the difficulty (would BFG guys be overkill even for N! ?). This adjustment would make the Challenge more of a challenge fitting to the name Blade, instead of just 100 levels of regular DoomRL levels.

4.Angel of Badassery: "You were always the tough guy. Never wore a coat, even in the coldest bitter winter. You had to look cool. Now, you won't give in to the need for armor or boots" (or even a backpack, possibly). [optional balancing feature: You start off with one level of Tough As Nails inherent, but it doesn't get counted on your trait selection.] Difficulty: Very Hard
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Journey on December 18, 2009, 20:43
1.Angel of Rockets: Only able to use Rocket and Missile Launchers, ammo will obviously be limited so technique is required to succeed, but game may be easier on higher difficulties since mancubi and remnants will appear earlier to drop rockets. Difficulty: Hard.
I want something like this.  It'd probably be nice to change rockets to not destroy items in this mode, and perhaps change the item drop rate so that each floor gives you some rockets?
2.Angel of Hotfoot: "You've always had some hot, sweaty feet. These military boots don't seem to help much either. Seems like your sweat, combined with the evils of Hell, leaves the floor tarnished." Each step has a 1%-3% chance of creating lava (maybe acid instead) where you just moved from, possibly even on doors, water, or acid. Dodging back and forth will be more risky. Environmental suits will be more important in some instances.
I could see this being fun - the player can actually create lava or acid to their advantage - creating barriers for enemies and erasing corpses.  Of course the player has to be careful not to trap him/herself with the stuff!

3.Angel of 100 tweak: Same concept as before, but now every 10th level is an arena with a special boss, probably human, wielding one of the advanced weapons or uniques. Possibly make it so these enemies are the only way to get uniques in the challenge. Scale the types of uniques to the difficulty (would BFG guys be overkill even for N! ?). This adjustment would make the Challenge more of a challenge fitting to the name Blade, instead of just 100 levels of regular DoomRL levels.
There's been loads and loads of Ao100 ideas.  Who knows which ones will get used.  I'm a fan of Ao100 though, so I do look forward to it being upgraded.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Shoop da Whoop on December 19, 2009, 17:38
Quote
There's been loads and loads of Ao100 ideas.  Who knows which ones will get used.  I'm a fan of Ao100 though, so I do look forward to it being upgraded.
What do you think about this:

Angel of Abyss
Lower and lower and lower and lower and lower and... where is the end?

Level 100 is not finish now! Maybe, level 666? Or level 1000? Or REAL abyss, like in ADOM Ironman challenge?
Anyway, maximum possible level number is longint 2147483647. It's quite enough.
* Shoop Da Whoop sarcastically smiles. *
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: raekuul on December 19, 2009, 18:20
I would be surprised if anyone manages to get to the 250th dlevel...  besides, a marathon mode like that would be un-Chaosforge-RL-ish... these games are meant as a quick game, not the three-hour games that we see more and more of these days...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Tavana on December 21, 2009, 14:11
Angel of Doom (or Original or something like that)

Been thinking about this - perhaps Angel of Classic Doom.

Armor Shards spawn a lot more (and give +5% armour), you have inventory space for one of each weapon, and one stack of each ammo, up to the maximum in classic doom.

On a new note (though I haven't read the entire thread and I could be copying):
Angel of Estrogen:

Female players unite! DoomGuy? Are you kidding me?! DoomGirl saves the day in this challenge.

+x% chance to dodge
+x% to reload time
-x% to health
-x% to overall damage resistance

OR perhaps give the player an option, after beating N! or somesuch, of being female in ANY of the games for the same bonuses.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Fanta Hege on December 21, 2009, 14:30
Angel of Perfectionism

Leave an item on the ground? Not checking that dark spot of the map? Not killing that monster! Preposterous!
In this challenge mode you HAVE TO study the entire map, get 100% kills on each level you enter and pick all the power ups or you won't be allowed to leave.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Madtrixr on December 21, 2009, 15:04
Angel of Perfectionism

Leave an item on the ground? Not checking that dark spot of the map? Not killing that monster! Preposterous!
In this challenge mode you HAVE TO study the entire map, get 100% kills on each level you enter and pick all the power ups or you won't be allowed to leave.

Jeez. That's intense.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: bfg9001 on December 21, 2009, 15:09
Angel of Estrogen

Lol, nice. That oughtta' piss some people off :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: leonresevil2 on December 21, 2009, 16:53
Angel of Perfectionism

Leave an item on the ground? Not checking that dark spot of the map? Not killing that monster! Preposterous!
In this challenge mode you HAVE TO study the entire map, get 100% kills on each level you enter and pick all the power ups or you won't be allowed to leave.

That's how I play! *looks around*
I'm getting the feeling that I'm playing a bit above the standards, by trying to get every kill and item.

Maybe that's why beating the game in 30 minutes seems near impossible to me.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on December 22, 2009, 06:10
Cave Levels are impossible. There are many walls which block nearly the half of the map. In this you should see all walls on the level, else it's impossible.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: metroidRL on December 22, 2009, 22:32
Angel of Perfectionism

Leave an item on the ground? Not checking that dark spot of the map? Not killing that monster! Preposterous!
In this challenge mode you HAVE TO study the entire map, get 100% kills on each level you enter and pick all the power ups or you won't be allowed to leave.

this challenge is imposible on N!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Tavana on December 23, 2009, 01:13
Angel of Perfectionism

Leave an item on the ground? Not checking that dark spot of the map? Not killing that monster! Preposterous!
In this challenge mode you HAVE TO study the entire map, get 100% kills on each level you enter and pick all the power ups or you won't be allowed to leave.

I think that there are too many items to pick up and not enough backpack space.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: bfg9001 on December 23, 2009, 02:09
I think that there are too many items to pick up and not enough backpack space.

Well, he only mentions power-ups, not actual items.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Tavana on December 23, 2009, 04:20
Sorry, I thought that was implied in the first line of the challenge description.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: bfg9001 on December 23, 2009, 08:09
Hm, you're right as well. Then I honestly don't know, lol.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Fanta Hege on December 23, 2009, 17:19
Quote
Cave Levels are impossible. There are many walls which block nearly the half of the map. In this you should see all walls on the level, else it's impossible.
Well it could be changed to "Accesible dark spots" or something like that then.

Quote
this challenge is imposible on N!
But doesn't killing every monster once count for the kill percentage? Meaning you kill them all once and its allllright.

I think that there are too many items to pick up and not enough backpack space.

I knew that, which is why I stated powerups.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Shoop da Whoop on December 25, 2009, 08:01
Angel of Greed:

"I'll take this... And this... And this too... Everything here is MINE!"

Don't worry of place in your backpack - it's infinite now! But more items -> slower speed. With full (usual) backpack you cannot run. With double full (usual) you are ever tired. And you cannot drop anything! And every item you pass over will be taken immediatly!

It's kind of reversal of AoI.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on December 25, 2009, 08:36
And you cannot drop anything! And every item you pass over will be taken immediatly!
Suddenly all the respawnings in N! terrify me more than ever...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on December 25, 2009, 09:37
What's the difference between "Can't run" and "Tired" status, except those uniques?
I think it should slow you by 0.005 sec/walk after your backpack is overloaded.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on January 06, 2010, 09:56
Sticky topic becoming dead? Strange enough.

Angel of Speed:

You don't have time to think. You need to act. You have 2.5 sec(real time) on action, else you'll skip the turn. For compensation any of your actions can't last longer than 1.5 sec. If it's longer, it becomes equal.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on January 06, 2010, 10:25
More like post fatigue.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Thomas on January 06, 2010, 14:14
Haha, Angel of Speed is a great idea. Don't even give it the benefit of "All actions can't take more than 1.5s gametime", that seems a bit silly.

Angel of Darkness (revised)

Eyesight was never a strong point for you. Most marines can see pretty far even in the darkness of phobos' underground base, but you're lucky to see what's happening a few feet ahead of you. Luckily, the flashes of light that enemy weapons make should be bright enough to guide you to the exit.

Player Vision Radius reduced by 50% (So it's about 6 squares)
Enemy Vision Radius is unchanged.
Whenever a monster's last action was "Fire weapon at player", it creates a 5x5 square of light, centered on the enemy. You can see all items and enemies in this square, including the one that fired at you.
If the enemy fires at you, then moves, its last action is "Move", so the square of light goes dark again.



Angel of Impetus

Aparantly the theory of impetus was disproven long ago, but it still seems to apply to your weapons. While they work fine at max range, it takes a while for the bullets to pick up momentum, so fighting at close ranges is quite inefficient.

Player Ranged Damage is multiplied by (0.5 + (DistanceFromEnemy/20)). The multiplier is capped at 1.00 as to never benefit the player.
Player Melee Damage is multiplied by 0.5.


EDIT: I want to stress a bit more that while my 2 ideas are pretty good (I mean, I came up with them, they have to be awesome), Angel of Speed is a really wonderful idea and should be put in to the next BETA (hint hint)

And it might need a better name, less synonymous with haste. Perhaps "Angel of Panic" or "Angel of Indecision".
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Malek Deneith on January 06, 2010, 15:06
Quote from: Thomas
Angel of Speed is a really wonderful idea and should be put in to the next BETA (hint hint)
Put a bounty on it :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Fanta Hege on January 06, 2010, 18:17
Angel of Stress.

You're a stressful man, anything you do out of ordinary creates you stress, now specialy when you're in a hell like this, things ain't that much better..
Each time played status changes, whenever to running, tired, invulnerable, berserk, you will start losing x health every x second. So better think twice before using dem power ups/run!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Shadrak on January 06, 2010, 20:36
my two cents...

Angel of Traits - You were always a prodigy, able to get to the gist of things others had trouble with. But in Hell, there are demons almost as smart as you.

Gives player two traits at start-up, and removes all trait blocking. But every monster you meet also gets a trait. Or maybe even several - preferrably random.

Nobody expects a pack of SoB'd captains, dualgunner former humans, or a cat-eyed arch-vile with a pack of Int2 revenants (you ARE dead here =) )

Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Drone on January 07, 2010, 08:09
Angel of arena: Every randomised map you encounter will be an arena map.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on January 07, 2010, 09:40
Angel of MacDonald's

Like everything from a related restaurant, all the floors are 4 times larger than what they were (160x40).  Have fun!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on January 10, 2010, 03:27
Maybe another speed-based challenge, good fitting into Realism Challenge.

Angel of DoomGuy.

You think you're up there and nothing can hit you? You think you can go to the kitchen and drink coffee while your DoomGuy is in the middle of hell? You're wrong. Every time you move you have a time of the move delay and then you have 0.1 second to press the key, else you skip turn(1 sec.).

And another.

Angel of Gravity.
"A-a-a! What's happening?"

Every second everything except walls&doors fall down 1 square. But if something touches the wall it doesn't fall.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Silhar on January 10, 2010, 12:22
Hey, if walls were falling too, THIS would make an interesting challenge. Fighting monsters and avoiding being crushed at the same time, all the stuff...

(Oh. Monster caves would be a hell to survive...)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Fanta Hege on January 10, 2010, 18:17
Angel of Indestructable

ALL the walls, Floor tiles, doors AND barrels become indestructable. Only expectition to this is nuking due of the power of the nuke.

With this challenge.. You're pretty much forced to go by the level. It should also make the wall and halls of carnage little bit more intresting.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: yns88 on January 22, 2010, 19:09
I'm not sure if this has already been suggested yet, but:

ANGEL OF RAMBO
No time to reload!

+ All guns have twice the ammo capacity. Single-shot weapons have 10x ammo capacity each but must still be reloaded at full reload time per shot.

- Your backpack cannot hold ammunition, so you can't reload any of your guns. Hope you're carrying a few spares!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: leonresevil2 on January 23, 2010, 21:35
Opinions:
I do not like the idea of Angel of Speed, Rushing, whatever you call it where the game is NOT turn-based but instead more real-time. Unless the time periods for a turn were made longer (5 or 10 seconds until a turn is forced), and a Pause key was added, I would not want to play that Challenge. I understand that it is intended to be a challenge, but it breaks one of the core elements of the game (turn-based game), and I do not feel that the challenge would be that much fun or different. I understand, AoB and AoPc break core elements too, but they are different, and fun... in a masochistic way. They allow for unique gameplay tactics, and fun stories for your mortems. Angel of Speed would be "No time to use inventory, no time to be strategic, no time to look at past message log, no time to think." I just don't feel that it would be fun, for some people at least. And some Challenges (AoD at least) were removed, I believe because no one really played them, or they were not different enough. Maybe I am wrong though, that's why this is my opinion.

Angel of Stress is a little bit confusing, and I don't think that powerups should punish the player.

Angel of Traits sounds good, as long as powerful enemies do not get overpowered. Arch-Viles with Hellrunner, Mancubi with Eagle Eye, a Baron of Hell with Tough as Nails plus Red Armor plus Large Health Packs, those could happen, but they would make the game almost unplayable, unless the traits you can get really make you just as powerful.

Angel of Arena would get boring after awhile, starting at the same place, having the same kind of enemies in the same basic places.

AoMcD..? Haha. I assume the screen would scroll then? Eh, that would kind of break the game.

Angel of Gravity is confusing, and doesn't sound like maps would be fun.

For Angel of Indestructible, I think barrels should be destructible, but not destroying things nearby except enemies. Does "Floor tiles" mean that acid and lava won't appear from barrels, or what?

Angel of Rambo sounds good, unique weapons would be broken in most instances, but that could be ok. Using regular weapons on enemies, and saving Uniques for the tougher guys, I guess. Melee characters would work well then, but Shottyman would be a little bit useless, along with Combat Shotguns.

As for my ideas, I have posted all my Challenge ideas awhile ago, haven't really thought of any others since then. So I thought I would give some input on the ideas shown here, since if we just list off ideas and no discussion results, the ideas will probably not be considered. At least as far as I can see.
Oh and sorry for the length. :)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: yns88 on January 23, 2010, 22:37
Angel of Rambo sounds good, unique weapons would be broken in most instances, but that could be ok. Using regular weapons on enemies, and saving Uniques for the tougher guys, I guess. Melee characters would work well then, but Shottyman would be a little bit useless, along with Combat Shotguns.

Some uniques would be nearly useless, others (like the nuclear plasma gun/bfg) would be as close to win-buttons as you could get in a challenge mode.

I wasn't thinking the balance through with the shotguns. I guess it would be better with 5x capacity on single-shot weapons. That way, a combat shotgun has 10 shots with a ~0.5sec pump in between shots, and a regular shotgun has 5 shots with ~1.5 sec reload in between each shot.

It's true that shottyman would be completely useless, but majority of the existing challenge modes make certain traits useless.

Overall I think it's a medium difficulty challenge. If it turns out to be too easy, then just reduce the 2x ammo buff to 1.5x or even 1x.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: leonresevil2 on January 24, 2010, 00:54
Some uniques would be nearly useless, others (like the nuclear plasma gun/bfg) would be as close to win-buttons as you could get in a challenge mode.

I wasn't thinking the balance through with the shotguns. I guess it would be better with 5x capacity on single-shot weapons. That way, a combat shotgun has 10 shots with a ~0.5sec pump in between shots, and a regular shotgun has 5 shots with ~1.5 sec reload in between each shot.

It's true that shottyman would be completely useless, but majority of the existing challenge modes make certain traits useless.

Overall I think it's a medium difficulty challenge. If it turns out to be too easy, then just reduce the 2x ammo buff to 1.5x or even 1x.

I think the numbers for multiplying are good, they may even be too low. The later levels have less enemies that drop weapons (Arachnos, Barons, Cacos, Revenants, Mancubi, Arch-Viles), so that is where the game will really become hard. Hell's Arena would be harder, Chained Court would be a breeze mostly, The Wall wouldn't be worth it at all, Halls of Carnage wouldn't be bad for Shotguns, Hell's Armory would be THE place to go, everything beyond that would not be worth the effort. Mods would be less important, Uniques would be useless in most cases, so the inventory would be more devoted to health, armor, and weapons. I would keep the ammo amounts as you listed, and maybe increase them according to beta testing.

My twist on the idea:

Angel of First Blood

Hell is a movie, you're in the lead. Every second, you have a chance (2% maybe) that your weapons will be reloaded and filled with ammo for you by the crew. But, you are too tough to use health packs, computer maps, or any kind of items aside from Mods and Environmental suits (can't have you teleporting out of the camera shot with Phase Devices, now can we?) The crew also patches (to 100% probably, unless that is too easy) you up when you go down the stairs to the next scene. But be warned, your fellow cast are deathly serious in playing their parts. (Mwuhaha!)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on January 24, 2010, 04:31
A small modification to the Angel of Speed - any screen that don't allow you to see the situation (like '@' or 'i' screens) pauses the game. This will leave some tactics but the rush style of the proposed challenge would leave.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Frankosity on January 24, 2010, 05:33
I know this is going back ages, even to the previous thread, but I really liked Angel Of Death, the challenge which forces you to get 100% kills on each level. While it wouldn't be initially difficult, higher difficulties and the lowest levels would hurt, since you wouldn't be able to escape the arachnotron caves and mancubi packs and whatnot.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Fanta Hege on January 24, 2010, 11:58
Angel Of Horde


For the hooorde!
Whats the fun with very little enemies? How about we double that, or maybe triple it, or hell, quadrible on harder diffuculties!
On the brightside though, the enemies are unable to use their ranged attack (and possibly have a slight speed/knockback bonus?)

Nightmare bonus; Each enemy killed drops 2 corpses instead of one.

On consenpation, the exp values are also decreased



Quote
For Angel of Indestructible, I think barrels should be destructible, but not destroying things nearby except enemies. Does "Floor tiles" mean that acid and lava won't appear from barrels, or what?
It actually means you can't destroy floor tile, as you know, if you fire a rocket and hit tiles with water tiles, it will destroy water tiles.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: yns88 on January 24, 2010, 19:16
Angel Of Horde


For the hooorde!
Whats the fun with very little enemies? How about we double that, or maybe triple it, or hell, quadrible on harder diffuculties!
On the brightside though, the enemies are unable to use their ranged attack (and possibly have a slight speed/knockback bonus?)

Nightmare bonus; Each enemy killed drops 2 corpses instead of one.

On consenpation, the exp values are also decreased

1 arachnotron with a ranged attack is still quite more dangerous than 4 arachnotrons with melee only.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: tiw on January 27, 2010, 18:36
Angel of Perfectionism

Leave an item on the ground? Not checking that dark spot of the map? Not killing that monster! Preposterous!
In this challenge mode you HAVE TO study the entire map, get 100% kills on each level you enter and pick all the power ups or you won't be allowed to leave.
Also, all levers have to be pulled. To compensate, levers will not be destroyed by any means.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: tiw on January 27, 2010, 18:44
Angel of Flight
Any and all knockback effects will knock the victim to the maximum distance possible (to any object/wall that blocks movement.)

Angel of Fortune
All enemies except Lost Souls or the newly-revived drop an additional random item each time they are killed! Unfortunately, there are no pre-existing items or powerups on the map.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: raekuul on January 28, 2010, 07:27
Also, all levers have to be pulled. To compensate, levers will not be destroyed by any means.
A gambler's dream... or nightmare, if you get the wrong levers. I would like this modification to Angel of Perfectionism.... speaking of nightmares, how would that one work on N!?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: metroidRL on February 15, 2010, 22:00
Angel of insanity

Very hard
"You always the craziest marine, always looking for a challenge, or something very hard that the most hardened marine can't do it, and the hellish invasion is one of those.

You start with a plasma pistol (5d5, (with unlimited ammo, no splash damage)) and a power sword (prepared slot (5d4)) also you have 2 armor protection (like 2 TaN trait's) and 200% (never go down) unfortunately you can't pickup any powerup or item also you can't get healed (not even Iron man can do that) and this challenge is played on UV or N!.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ChaoticJosh on February 16, 2010, 01:03
Angel of Veteran

You're an old guy, you know lots of stuff, but unfortunately, this old dog can't learn new tricks. You start the game with five traits, but can't level up.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ChaoticJosh on February 16, 2010, 15:21
If noone minds me doubleposting, I just wanted to comment on something.

Angel Of Horde


For the hooorde!
Whats the fun with very little enemies? How about we double that, or maybe triple it, or hell, quadrible on harder diffuculties!
On the brightside though, the enemies are unable to use their ranged attack (and possibly have a slight speed/knockback bonus?)

Nightmare bonus; Each enemy killed drops 2 corpses instead of one.

On consenpation, the exp values are also decreased


It actually means you can't destroy floor tile, as you know, if you fire a rocket and hit tiles with water tiles, it will destroy water tiles.

I like the idea of a 'horde' but if I may suggest something similar and simpler:

Have Angel of Horde simply being a normal game with the spawn rate of Lost Souls, Demons, and Pain Elementals upped 10-20 times, and having everything else spawn with normal frequency. This way, you have to slog through MANY nuisance enemies, while needing to desperately conserve your ammo that you only get from other foes.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: BEEF on February 18, 2010, 19:40
Angel of Avarice: Oh, lovely gold! You're more interested in looting Hell's treasury than in actually wiping out the evil there. You're free to kill monsters in any way you can imagine, but you won't get experience from it like you would from finding golds.

Levels are generated with a new item type lying around, golds $. They act like powerups in that they're used immediately when picked up and you don't need any free inventory space, but unlike powerups, intuition doesn't reveal them. When you pick one up, you get a certain amount of experience, which can vary by the type of gold. The total value of golds generated is determined by the experience value of the monsters on the level. Special levels have pre-placed golds.

Overall, this works out about the same as Angel of Perfectionism, but instead of forcing you to explore the whole level before allowing you to continue, it just penalizes you for forging ahead. Also, it gives you the ability to actually pull off a 0% kills game that isn't AoP.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Thomas on February 19, 2010, 02:18
Angel of Avarice: Oh, lovely gold! You're more interested in looting Hell's treasury than in actually wiping out the evil there. You're free to kill monsters in any way you can imagine, but you won't get experience from it like you would from finding golds.

Here's a possible variation to that:

Angel of Avarice: Who cares about the demons invading Earth? You're just in it for the money! And boy are those demons loaded, they'll drop a big heap of cash on death. Money, being the most powerful force of the universe, will provide you with experience instead of kills.

But pick it up fast! You're in hell, and greedy demons have a habit of making coins "disappear".

Player doesn't gain EXP from killing demons.
Demons drop $3 for every 2 experience points they're usually worth.
Every second, each pile of money on the ground loses $1 for every $15 in the pile (rounded up)
Player gains 1 EXP for every $1 they pick up.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: BEEF on February 20, 2010, 20:58
That's not really the same challenge at all though. If golds are generated with the level, you get experience from exploring, and lose it by making explosions and environmental hazards out of your vision. If they're generated by killing monsters, you get experience from killed monsters, and lose it by killing them with environmental hazards, killing them out of sight, and fighting groups of monsters.

Not that I think it's a bad idea, but I don't think the flavor fits as well as something like Angel of Undertaking, where they leave $oul Wisps or something instead of treasure. It also sounds absolutely brutal, since you'll have to immediately rush to every corpse if you don't want to lose experience. I know the numbers can be balanced, but if an experience pile starts at 150% and degrades 1/15 per second, then it drops below 100% after only 6 seconds. Even if the degeneration is reduced to 1/30, you'll probably be getting less experience unless you're playing a melee build.


Anyway, here's another idea, Angel of Tunnel Vision:
Projectiles always miss monsters and barrels other than their intended target, although shotguns and splash damage work normally. For monsters, this means they will never injure each other or blow up a barrel, unless it's a former sergeant firing, or some explosive projectile hits the player or a wall. For the player, your projectiles won't even roll to-hit except against your target: if there is a monster or a barrel under your targeting X, that is your target, otherwise the first monster or barrel the projectile encounters is your target.

Mobs of enemies are significantly more dangerous, since all those former humans will be shooting you instead of each other. Even worse, if your chaingun misses the first guy, you don't get the consolation prize of it hitting the guy behind him. On the flip side, you don't have to kill five mancubi for every hit you land on that arch-vile.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on February 21, 2010, 05:15
HM... Coins? How about we can only kill an enemy while rocket jumping on him? Also, when you destroy a wall, there is chance that a mushroom or magic start is spawned which grants you some powers (such as infrared vision, you can see many colours, you get hungry and so on...)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on February 21, 2010, 07:58
Angel of Randomity
Oh no, somebody has broken the game! Now everything here is random. So, every weapon can fire as a random weapon, including overheated nuclear plasma rifle, armour protects like an random armour, monsters fire like a random monster including Cyberdemon, power-ups and consumables work in the same way(counting Hell Staff as a consumable). But the game still resists. The chance to act like it must is bigger, but still far from certain.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: leonresevil2 on February 21, 2010, 12:54
HM... Coins? How about we can only kill an enemy while rocket jumping on him? Also, when you destroy a wall, there is chance that a mushroom or magic start is spawned which grants you some powers (such as infrared vision, you can see many colours, you get hungry and so on...)
And stairs become pipes you slide down, and the Cyberdemon looks like a suspiciously familiar dragon. Plus, if you outsmart him, you get to fight a giant ape with a fascination for princesses.

Heh, I bet someone will make that total conversion...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ChaoticJosh on February 21, 2010, 17:59
Angel of Multiplication

Each level only starts with a few enemies, but every 10 or 20 turns the monsters will 'split', creating a copy of the original and effectively doubling the enemies on the level. The monsters can do this indefinitely, unless there's literally no room left on the level.

EDIT: Something else in the same vein:

Angel of Sudden Death

You remember those Bomberman games where if you took too long, then the game's arena would start destroying itself to get you to hurry up? In this challenge, there's either a acid or lava tile in one of the four corners, and every turn the acid/lava will spawn another tile of itself, working itself around the level clockwise and once it circles around, it starts again on the next innermost row of tiles and continues until the entire level is engulfed! Hurry up, you never know where the stairs might be...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on February 21, 2010, 18:36
Angel of Multiplication

Each level only starts with a few enemies, but every 10 or 20 turns the monsters will 'split', creating a copy of the original and effectively doubling the enemies on the level. The monsters can do this indefinitely, unless there's literally no room left on the level.

I'd hate to be in a Pain Elemental cave with this challenge... and suddenly City of Skulls might just be too terrifying.  And the Mortuary will flat out kill you.  Twice.  Complete flattening of the corpse.  Eww...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: leonresevil2 on February 22, 2010, 10:30
Angel of Multiplication

Each level only starts with a few enemies, but every 10 or 20 turns the monsters will 'split', creating a copy of the original and effectively doubling the enemies on the level. The monsters can do this indefinitely, unless there's literally no room left on the level.

EDIT: Something else in the same vein:

Angel of Sudden Death

You remember those Bomberman games where if you took too long, then the game's arena would start destroying itself to get you to hurry up? In this challenge, there's either a acid or lava tile in one of the four corners, and every turn the acid/lava will spawn another tile of itself, working itself around the level clockwise and once it circles around, it starts again on the next innermost row of tiles and continues until the entire level is engulfed! Hurry up, you never know where the stairs might be...

Interesting ideas. Multiplication would have to be far slower (maybe 40 turns), and ammo would be needed to balance the odds. Otherwise everyone would just play through for Ammochain, and the early levels could be wait-spammed for tons of former humans (and thus piles of EXP).
For Sudden Death, arena maps would be very difficult, and UC could be a critical fail (by the time you finish AoD, the exit would probably be full of lava, maybe the whole map). The idea is similar to AoRA, and the system could be abused to get easy kills on enemies on the outer edges of the maps. You could easily find the stairs, empty the room, and wait on top of the stairs until the map fills with lava and all enemies die.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Thomas on February 23, 2010, 03:28
Angel of Sudden Death

You remember those Bomberman games where if you took too long, then the game's arena would start destroying itself to get you to hurry up? In this challenge, there's either a acid or lava tile in one of the four corners, and every turn the acid/lava will spawn another tile of itself, working itself around the level clockwise and once it circles around, it starts again on the next innermost row of tiles and continues until the entire level is engulfed! Hurry up, you never know where the stairs might be...

This is an excellent idea. Although it could be improved thusly:
You have a very small amount of time with no sudden death (1 or 2 in-game minutes)
(To compensate for this, acid/lava spawns at a rate slightly faster than 1 tile per second)
Different levels flood in different ways, eg.
Maze of Rooms starts flooding on the edges and spirals in
Hellish City starts flooding on the side you're closest to and snakes towards the opposite side
Cave/Arena starts flooding in the exact center and spirals out
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ChaoticJosh on February 23, 2010, 17:03
Interesting ideas. Multiplication would have to be far slower (maybe 40 turns), and ammo would be needed to balance the odds. Otherwise everyone would just play through for Ammochain, and the early levels could be wait-spammed for tons of former humans (and thus piles of EXP).

One thing that could be used to balance things out is that when a creature splits, the two resulting creatures only have 1/2 the exp of the original, and becomes less and less with each split.

This is an excellent idea. Although it could be improved thusly:
You have a very small amount of time with no sudden death (1 or 2 in-game minutes)
(To compensate for this, acid/lava spawns at a rate slightly faster than 1 tile per second)
Different levels flood in different ways, eg.
Maze of Rooms starts flooding on the edges and spirals in
Hellish City starts flooding on the side you're closest to and snakes towards the opposite side
Cave/Arena starts flooding in the exact center and spirals out

Yeah, thinking about it, not all levels could be treated the same. So I think the different patterns would be a good thing as well.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on February 23, 2010, 17:32
Just a small reminder -- 10 turns == 1 in-game second.

So if we are talking about monsters multiplying every 40 turns, we mean that for every four steps you walk around, the monsters "split".
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: leonresevil2 on February 24, 2010, 09:06
One thing that could be used to balance things out is that when a creature splits, the two resulting creatures only have 1/2 the exp of the original, and becomes less and less with each split.

If the EXP splits (which is a reasonable idea), the health should split, or at least decrease. Imagine a room of 2 arch viles and 5 mancubi. There would be no easy way to take them down, with them splitting before you probably even get to the room they are in. So I would like to see 50 weaker Mancubi in that case.

Just a small reminder -- 10 turns == 1 in-game second.

So if we are talking about monsters multiplying every 40 turns, we mean that for every four steps you walk around, the monsters "split".

I recommended 40 since I didn't want to completely change the idea, or mess up the rate. Maybe make an initial 'no-split' time.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on February 24, 2010, 10:38
Usually monsters have an initial 40 turns where they don't do anything.  Then, they start to run their AI scripts, as far as I can remember.

I don't see why having the health splitting is of any use.  Since almost everything is upper-bound by 250, we find that we can't do more than 8-splits before all the health is a paltry 1, assuming some Law of Conservation of Health is in effect.  Then in that case, one viable strategy to win is just wait for everything to split down, and then charge in with a shotgun, probably with MAD trait, blasting everything away.  Doesn't sound much of a challenge now, does it?

Here's another modification.  Don't bother about setting some multiplying rate based on time -- base it on damage taken.  If the monster is hit, it has a certain probability (tied to health) to split into two, retaining the same amount of health it had before the split, but having EXP provided from killing it halved.  It becomes a challenge without having to mess around with multiplying factors and timing issues.  No sense making a challenge where we penalise the player for just being in the game.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ChaoticJosh on February 24, 2010, 14:54
Not a bad idea Laptop. It makes those pesky barons that just-so-happened to pick up a few medkits a bit more dangerous, since you'll be dealing damage to them, they'll be healing the damage, and with every hit you have a chance of making more barons.

Also, do you think that the split, in the case of a one-hit kill, should occur before death? So that if you one-shot a former human, he'll split before dying, killing the original but the copy remains alive?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ChaoticJosh on February 26, 2010, 16:30
I've been thinking of some new challenges, let me just rattle them off two of them:

First, I've been thinking about that "Angel of Avarice" challenge mentioned earlier, and I was inspired with something similar.

Angel of Capitalism

PAH! Sure, the demons are bad and all, but this is all business, and hey, if you kill the Cyberdemon, that's just good PR. In this challenge, No globes, medkits, armors, uniques, or randomly generated items of any kind will be spawned on any level. Also, no monsters give any experience, and any monsters that would normally drop weapons/ammo (former humans, seargents, etc) won't drop anything either. Instead, all monsters drop a certain amount of money, with the amount varying with some randomness but with stronger monsters generally having more money. This money doesn't do anything by itself, but inbetween each dungeon level, you enter a shop. This shop is reminiscent of the trait selection screen, and in here you can spend the money you’ve collected.

Your choice of purchases include:
All manner of globes, including invincibility globes and Megaspheres, which take effect when you enter the next level.
All manner of items, including Nukes.
All manner of normal armor,
All manner of “normal” weapons, including the chainsaw and BFG
All types of ammo
You can purchase a random Unique
You can purchase a level up (this one gets progressively more expensive, of course)

After you’re done with the purchases, you just exit the shop and into the next level. All items will be priced accordingly, so of course while BFG’s, invincibility orbs, uniques, and nukes may be available, they would be so prohibitively expensive that you couldn’t buy them without first saving up and denying yourself other important things.

To keep up with the theme of the challenge, I think the special levels should have their rewards altered where, instead of being items, they’re big piles of cash equal to the items you’d normally receive.

One last thing, I think that the Angelic Armor and the Longinus Spear are iffy items, since they’re these weird cross-breeds between uniques and normals, so I think that while these items can be bought, they have to first be unlocked by completing the corresponding special level.

Angel of Gauntlet

Each level starts with no monsters on it. However, in this challenge, there’s a new type of structure, the spawner. These spawners are stationary and have HP much like creatures do. These will spawn a certain creature infinitely until it is destroyed. Now, of course, the stronger monsters will have much longer spawn rates with the weaker monsters having much shorter spawn rates. These spawners are structures, and thus don’t leave corpses that can be revived by either Archviles or Nightmare! difficulty.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: leonresevil2 on February 26, 2010, 17:23
I like both ideas, ChaoticJosh. Setting up an economy for Angel of Capitalism would take some testing, but it would be an interesting challenge. Also, higher difficulties could increase the costs of all items, to balance out the fact that there are so many more enemies, and purchasable invulnerability globes would make higher levels somewhat easier. Uniques could be broken up into types (pistol, shotgun, etc.), so players could choose the type of unique they want, but the cost would be much higher, with the idea being that you do not waste so much time trying to get a unique you can use for your build, but you pay more than you would if it were all random.

Angel of Gauntlet sounds fun, but needs development. If a spawner is surrounded or cut off by lava, that could trap enemies (or lead to many demon suicides) and the spawner would need to know how to handle if a room or space was full of enemies. Also, I think the spawners themselves should be the source of EXP, depending on the monster type spawned.  Also, what if a spawner spawns an enemy on top of a barrel? The spawner creates new game situations and cases that would need to be handled, which would require thorough testing, but I think the challenge would be good when everything was decided on.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ChaoticJosh on February 26, 2010, 18:07
I've been thinking about Angel of Gauntlet, and one way to handle the EXP situation would be if the spawned monsters gave no exp at all. Instead, only killing the spawners grants EXP, most likely in large lumps to offset the amount of work it takes to take them down.

EDIT: I may have just said what you said, except in different words.

Also, the spawning mechanism could just spawn the creatures in any unoccupied space on any of the eight tiles around it.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: leonresevil2 on February 28, 2010, 17:00
EDIT: I may have just said what you said, except in different words.

Also, the spawning mechanism could just spawn the creatures in any unoccupied space on any of the eight tiles around it.

Actually you did, but that's fine. As for the spawning, I have seen a former commando completely surrounded by lava in a level, no space to move. I guess that would just be easy EXP in the case of the spawner. Also, I believe some enemies accidently spawn in normal games on top of lava and acid, which explains why you sometimes hear monsters cry and die early on in some levels (and it's not just demons). I think, for the sake of avoiding easy big dumps of EXP from spawners, spawners should at least be immune to acid and lava, and perhaps also be floating objects, able to move around (maybe just from knockback, maybe autonomous spawning vehicles!) in the level. Barrel explosions should still harm spawners, but ground surfaces should not affect it. If autonomous, the spawner could fly to clear areas (or the player) to spawn more enemies.
And I would love to trap a spawner in a ring of barrels, just for fun, whether it can move or not.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Angles of death on July 12, 2010, 10:19
I have some ideas

Angel of peace (not going to bother writing a description) Every time you attack something you absorb half the damage of your hit you start with a green armour and some Phase Devices replacing Medpacks.

Another challenge idea without a description:Angel of destruction,you can not leave a level until you have killed everything,as long as there are monsters on the level you are on you lose health every turn but gain some for killing and to prevent arch vile farming corpses are gibbed upon death (the stronger the monster and the faster you kill it the more health you get)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: kingwesleyr on July 22, 2010, 09:20
Angel of Mods: weapons, armor, boats are 25% inaffective compared to thier normal game counter parts. mods have 3* effect and more can be added to each weapon amror boats and mods apear more offten
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Fanta Hege on July 23, 2010, 08:03
Angel of Future
Bullets? Ahaha boy! We're in the future, all in here we have is plasma and above!
All bullet weapons are replaced with plasma counter parts. Shotgun? Plasmashotgun. Chaingun? Plasmarifle. Yes even the weapons carried by the former humans, turning the diffuculty up quite a lot. Regular pistol wearing former humans use blasters due of no other plasma pistols but due of balance reasons will not drop the blaster, rather just energy cells.

Uniques/Exotics are not effected.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Angles of death on July 23, 2010, 08:21
Angel of Future
Bullets? Ahaha boy! We're in the future, all in here we have is plasma and above!
All bullet weapons are replaced with plasma counter parts. Shotgun? Plasmashotgun. Chaingun? Plasmarifle. Yes even the weapons carried by the former humans, turning the diffuculty up quite a lot. Regular pistol wearing former humans use blasters due of no other plasma pistols but due of balance reasons will not drop the blaster, rather just energy cells.

Uniques/Exotics are not effected.
Now THAT is a challenge.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: BEEF on July 24, 2010, 13:41
Angel of Jujitsu: why attack the bad guys yourself, when they'll do it to each other for you? You throw away all of your weapons at the start of each level, and refuse to throw punches. Don't think about counting on weapons you find on the floor, because there aren't any. You're going to have to fight tooth and nail just to get a weapon.

To keep things remotely fair, you get to keep your weapons when you go to level 25, because otherwise it would be impossible to win.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on July 24, 2010, 19:56
Angel of Jujitsu: why attack the bad guys yourself, when they'll do it to each other for you? You throw away all of your weapons at the start of each level, and refuse to throw punches. Don't think about counting on weapons you find on the floor, because there aren't any. You're going to have to fight tooth and nail just to get a weapon.

To keep things remotely fair, you get to keep your weapons when you go to level 25, because otherwise it would be impossible to win.
This sounds like a variant of AoPc and AoRA + AoB, except it is much harder than AoRA and AoB since you have what will eventually become zero access to weapons on each level.  For the early levels, I think it is still do-able, but once the level is full of Revenants, Viles, Barons [of Hell], and Mancubi, we have a serious problem, since those goons don't really drop weapons.

Not sure if want.  >.>
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on July 25, 2010, 11:14
Angel of Mimic
You never had your own appearence, your own style. You only could copy evrything you saw from others. When you kill a monster, he's weaponry is your's weaponry. But beware, for some monsters have something more than weapons to knock you down - something you're not able to copy. Also, you can't wear armor and wield weapons.
Watch out of LS

EDIT: And I suppose we've ran out of possible ideas that are a challenge. Everything that can be a good challenge is already proposed. So I say that it would be better to include a different play modes into the game, and do not call it an angel, for it's more a different game, not a challenge
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on July 25, 2010, 12:07
Angel of Mimic
You never had your own appearence, your own style. You only could copy evrything you saw from others. When you kill a monster, he's weaponry is your's weaponry. But beware, for some monsters have something more than weapons to knock you down - something you're not able to copy.
Watch out of LS

EDIT: And I suppose we've ran out of possible ideas that are a challenge. Everything that can be a good challenge is already proposed. So I say that it would be better to include a different play modes into the game, and do not call it an angel, for it's more a different game, not a challenge

That would be something wicked. I think we need to ask a question what should be copied? Armour? Damage? Special abilities? Speed? Health? What will be effect of your experience level?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on July 25, 2010, 12:28
Everything is gamebreaking powerful, health is dangereous. So player onle changes his weapon and armor. When he kills a baron for insance, his weapon becomes Baron's Acid Splash, his armor  -  Baron's Armor and his swap weapon Baron's Kick.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on July 25, 2010, 19:56
Everything is gamebreaking powerful, health is dangereous. So player onle changes his weapon and armor. When he kills a baron for insance, his weapon becomes Baron's Acid Splash, his armor  -  Baron's Armor and his swap weapon Baron's Kick.
I'd love to have the Arch-Vile's fire-blast weapon and resurrection power on swap please.

And suddenly, Mancubi become very very nice to kill...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Angles of death on August 01, 2010, 08:39
That is once Fun tm challenge!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on August 01, 2010, 09:07
Angel (or mode as I proposed) of Shield
You're here to deliver a new prototype device for further testing on the phobos base. But however, there is nobody left able to test it except you. So you must prove it useful and able to be used in real battle. Thus, you can't exit the level until there are less corpses than enemies. The device creates 7 walls around you, the empty space is the direction you were walking. However, any weapon you fire has 1/4 damage before armor.

You must be very careful and choose the best position and run away if got to trouble. You must kill some monsters to balance things out some way.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kg on August 02, 2010, 03:28
I don't know if it's been proposed so sorry if it's a repost:
Angel of Certainty
You are perfectionist. You have to be absolutely sure you know what you're shooting at. So, no more shooting into darkness hoping some monsters would get hit. To attack you must have enemy targeted in your LOS! Due to your sharp eyes, sight range increased by 2.

Difficulty: I don't know if it's possible (in some cases)

Angel of Bombing

You are sick of traditional weapons like pistols. Time to blow some shit up! You have bombs at your disposal, which detonates when this dirty hellish spawn gets close.

Difficulty: wtfbbq!

This Angel of Bombing is propably a bad idea, though maybe something like landmine weapon would be nice (let's say it would be slightly more powerful than RL blast)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UltimateChaos on August 15, 2010, 20:29
Actually you did, but that's fine. As for the spawning, I have seen a former commando completely surrounded by lava in a level, no space to move. I guess that would just be easy EXP in the case of the spawner. Also, I believe some enemies accidently spawn in normal games on top of lava and acid, which explains why you sometimes hear monsters cry and die early on in some levels (and it's not just demons). I think, for the sake of avoiding easy big dumps of EXP from spawners, spawners should at least be immune to acid and lava, and perhaps also be floating objects, able to move around (maybe just from knockback, maybe autonomous spawning vehicles!) in the level. Barrel explosions should still harm spawners, but ground surfaces should not affect it. If autonomous, the spawner could fly to clear areas (or the player) to spawn more enemies.
And I would love to trap a spawner in a ring of barrels, just for fun, whether it can move or not.

This could easily be implemented, and to some degree it is in the form of pain elementals.  All that is being proposed is another type of similar enemy that spawns something other than lost souls.  Could be fun.  On another note...

Angel of One!
You only have one HP.  To compensate, all enemies also have one HP but you are also limited to one inventory slot.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Fanta Hege on August 15, 2010, 21:12
Angel Of Gravity.

Feeling heavy? Now you will.
In this challenge every inventory space used gives you a -5 speed penalty.
Choose your items and armor wisely.


Angel of Coolcoat

Armor? Why would I want to wear that ugly thing?
In this challenge, you cannot use armor at all. Good luck!


Angel of Blast.

In this challenge everything that can deal damage, also creates blast damage. Even meelee and shotguns and your enemies, excisting blast damage causers cause even greater blast damage. Better watch out how you shoot..
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Tavana on August 16, 2010, 02:32
Angel of Future
Bullets? Ahaha boy! We're in the future, all in here we have is plasma and above!
All bullet weapons are replaced with plasma counter parts. Shotgun? Plasmashotgun. Chaingun? Plasmarifle. Yes even the weapons carried by the former humans, turning the diffuculty up quite a lot. Regular pistol wearing former humans use blasters due of no other plasma pistols but due of balance reasons will not drop the blaster, rather just energy cells.

Uniques/Exotics are not effected.

Could be good. Maybe start with a random exotic/unique armor to offset the damage possibilities of plasma? Or balance the damage output/speed of the enemies that aren't that familiar with the futuristic weaponry. Certainly possible, maybe even fun, but would require some tweaking to get things working in a smooth fashion. Can the current sandbox release allow you to set weapons held by enemies? If so (I can't recall) this could be attempted as a mod to see if it could work.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Captain Trek on August 17, 2010, 05:10
Quote
Regular pistol wearing former humans use blasters due of no other plasma pistols but due of balance reasons will not drop the blaster, rather just energy cells.

Why not? The player would have to start with one anyway and not having the formers drop theirs would just uneccessarily penalise anybody who wanted to do a pistol run of the mode... Besides, having the humans not drop cells (and instead drop blasters, which cannot be unloaded) would prevent the player from filling out his ammo spaces too quickly (I also think sergeants with their plasmashotguns should carry a very limited amount of ammo to further facilitate this)...

Quote
Uniques/Exotics are not effected.

And what happens when I find an exotic or a unique that uses bullets or shotgun shells? No, you'd have to change these as well so useless (in that mode, anyway) weapons like the minigun don't spawn...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Fanta Hege on August 17, 2010, 07:46
Quote
Why not? The player would have to start with one anyway and not having the formers drop theirs would just uneccessarily penalise anybody who wanted to do a pistol run of the mode... Besides, having the humans not drop cells (and instead drop blasters, which cannot be unloaded) would prevent the player from filling out his ammo spaces too quickly (I also think sergeants with their plasmashotguns should carry a very limited amount of ammo to further facilitate this)...

Honestly speaking I'm not actually sure how to do the start with as blaster is slightly OP in my opinion due of the infinite ammo. But maybe they could drop or maybe not.
I'm just hoping the next version would have a good plasma/techy version of pistol that wouldn't be blaster.


Quote
And what happens when I find an exotic or a unique that uses bullets or shotgun shells? No, you'd have to change these as well so useless (in that mode, anyway) weapons like the minigun don't spawn...

And what happens when I find SuperShotgun, BFG10k, DragonSlayer in Angel of Marksmanship?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Captain Trek on August 17, 2010, 10:13
Quote
And what happens when I find SuperShotgun, BFG10k, DragonSlayer in Angel of Marksmanship?

Eh, I tried...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UltimateChaos on August 17, 2010, 17:44
Angel of the Ailing

You are a former ass kicking marine!  Back in your day, you raided hell and destroyed the cyberdemon, and you have the scars to prove it.  On the verge of retirement, you gain word that your old pal cybie is back and all the new recruits have failed to take him down.  Return and show these fresh whelps how it's done!

You start as a level 20 marine with an inventory full of BFG, chaingun, large med kits, etc.  Enemies grant no exp, you already have plenty of that.  However, you haven't been keeping in shape and you're not used to this kind of mental and physical exertion.  As a result, every dungeon level you pass causes you to level DOWN, losing one of your much loved traits.  If that wasn't enough, the strain on your aching back prevents you carrying as many items, and your inventory spaces decrease by 1 ever level passed.  This is surely a one way trip...

Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Captain Trek on August 18, 2010, 03:14
Angel of the Ailing

You are a former ass kicking marine!  Back in your day, you raided hell and destroyed the cyberdemon, and you have the scars to prove it.  On the verge of retirement, you gain word that your old pal cybie is back and all the new recruits have failed to take him down.  Return and show these fresh whelps how it's done!

You start as a level 20 marine with an inventory full of BFG, chaingun, large med kits, etc.  Enemies grant no exp, you already have plenty of that.  However, you haven't been keeping in shape and you're not used to this kind of mental and physical exertion.  As a result, every dungeon level you pass causes you to level DOWN, losing one of your much loved traits.  If that wasn't enough, the strain on your aching back prevents you carrying as many items, and your inventory spaces decrease by 1 ever level passed.  This is surely a one way trip...

This sort of thing has been proposed before and your version of it is a little extreme, IMO... I honestly don't think it would be possible to fight through most of Phobos Hell with no traits and not a single inventory slot...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Shoop da Whoop on August 18, 2010, 08:04
Angel of Speed

Run! Fight! To breathe - it's tough!
No time to walk - hellish fiends are everywhere! You cannot walk - you're ever running. And you can charge to run even faster! But don't stop - your legs are aching...

You get such (dis)advantages:
Dodge bonus +20%
Move speed +30%
Fire toHit -1 (normal -2)
Fire defense +3 (normal +4)
Melee damage /2
Melee defense +3 (normal +4)

Also, you get protective boots at start and suffer 1 damage for each second when stand still.

And when you charge: (tactics - charging)
Dodge bonus +35%
Move speed +45%
Fire toHit -3
Fire defense +5
Melee damage /3
Melee defense +5

When tired, you return to normal running.

PS: this needs some rebalancing. But it's still fun.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UltimateChaos on August 18, 2010, 08:12
This sort of thing has been proposed before and your version of it is a little extreme, IMO... I honestly don't think it would be possible to fight through most of Phobos Hell with no traits and not a single inventory slot...

I didn't realize it has been proposed before, although many ideas here probably have.

This of course could be balanced a bit, such as maybe losing a level every two floors, or always being able to carry at least one or two inventory slots.  I figure it would be a challenge to take down cybie with only say, two slots of items and your prepared and carried weps. I think Hell would be perfectly doable without any traits, you'd basically already have BFG etc. and you'd only be going the last 5 levels of phobos hell without them, which are just a survival run anyway.  If this is too extreme, a level loss every couple stairs akin to Angel of Pacifism would work.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Captain Trek on August 18, 2010, 10:29
Shoop da Whoop, I think any challenge mode that penalises you even more severely for standing still than Red Alert already does is probably too tough... I don't know about th rest of the community, but losing health every time I fire a weapon, pick something up, use items or indeed take any action other than moving is not my idea of fun...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Shoop da Whoop on August 18, 2010, 11:29
Let it be 3 turns, then. Shoot, reload, move. Repeat.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: UltimateChaos on August 27, 2010, 01:57
To be honest, I think you have a good idea as is.  Having a few challenge modes just for fun with all badge earning disabled would be fun and is currently a missed feature in DoomRL.  For these fun challenges, I would recommend all of the following I've seen...

AoBones - If this became a badge-earning challenge, I could see a lot of trouble balancing it and a lot of abuse when it came to setting up levels to get the badges specifically.  Let it be an awesome fun experience in and of itself.

AoFuture - Giving all the enemies plasma weapons, including yourself, is just a very fun idea that doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to implement.  Even if the changes were simply that all enemies did plasma damage and dropped plasma weapons for pickup.

AoSpeed - Having Running and charging seems a little unbalanced and weird, but why not just have your marine constantly in running mode?  There's already penalties for running, I would love to play a game in constant running mode, even if there were no badges for it.  It would even be fun to be able to switch to a tired state for awhile, then be forced back into running.  "You feel unsettled.  You begin to run!"

Since it seems like badges are the thing that is difficult to balance, why not add in modes just for fun?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on August 27, 2010, 17:42
That's for what I proposed implementing modes. They're not meant to be challenges, so they can do some crazy things to gameplay. Like decreasing the move time or giving everything exploision damage.

And also - badges aren't supposed to be the major thing in the challenge, so we can just implement the badge with the crazy requirement, and let somebody be proud if he gets it.

Angel of Rage

Every demon possesses inherit hatred to every human. But it looks like they possess double hatred to you personally. Every demon you see drops his weapons and runs to you, forgetting everything. Every enemy (except LS) gets x4 to speed, but looses his ranged attack. Everything has the AI of demon.

Angel of something strange
Every barrel can shoot as any demon which can see it, including another barrel. Demons and LS and Pain Elementals are disabled in this challenge. Every level is filled with barrels (like "Khe, he, he ..." level). Special levels are not affected.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Patashu on September 15, 2010, 02:50
When modding comes in, it should be possible to swap Angels in and out via pieces of LUA code. :D

Angel of Detonation:
Corpses explode ala regular barrels.

Angel of Low Friction:
Hell froze over! Unless you're next to something big and solid you can hang onto (barrel, wall, lever) you automatically move in the last direction you moved in, including when you took a completely different action.
Shooting your weapon will make you start moving in the direction opposite your attack.

Angel of Solipsism:
As a fervent believer of the philosophy that nothing exists outside of your consciousness, you find yourself incapable of dealing damage to an enemy outside of your LOS, but that won't stop them from hurting you!

Angel of Xorn:
The Legions of Hell will even burrow through walls if it gets them to you faster!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Madtrixr on September 24, 2010, 22:53
(Just for Fun, so probably painfully unbalanced, but I'm just tossing something out)

Angel Of North Star

Demons you say? Ha! They are no match for the legendary Hokuto Shinken!
Imagine if Doomguy knew this deadly 2000 year old art...He would tear through hell like paper.

Game: You are automatically named Kenshiro.
Fists only. no knives, no chainsaw, no special Melee weapons.
you always gib the enemy in one to two hits, except boss-types, like the AoD, and Cybie.
They go down in 3 or 4.
You have dodgemaster, Iro3, Brute3, Hellrunner, TaN3.

I really don't have anything else. it's not even a serious idea, so yeah.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Sirdec on September 25, 2010, 04:13
AoMyHeartIsWeak Carefull on the stimpacks, the doctor said those would kill me. Medpacks and Health globes have a 25% chance to damage you instead of healing you.

AoGambling Easy the RNG picks up your traits at level up (this can be very easy or very hard depending on luck)

just random ideas
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on September 25, 2010, 07:13
While RNG chooses your traits it never can be easier than normal challenge.

Angel of Wall-Hugging
You're the wall-hugger. Literaly. While you're not near the wall and there are enemies on the screen, you receive 7 damage every action. But while you're near the wall you get +1 to defence. You always start near the wall.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on September 25, 2010, 10:21
While RNG chooses your traits it never can be easier than normal challenge.

Angel of Wall-Hugging
You're the wall-hugger. Literaly. While you're not near the wall and there are enemies on the screen, you receive 7 damage every action. But while you're near the wall you get +1 to defence. You always start near the wall.
Even for arena-type maps?  What about city maps?  Cave maps with lots of lava?

I think the only time this will work well is when you are in a maze map, because in almost all the other cases, it's just too hard to stick to a wall.  Notice 7 damage every action translates to being nearly dead at action 7, assuming lack of Iro.

From another perspective, wall hugging that much also means Mancubi are instant death, as are any thing that shoots big fire ball/acid ball/rockets.

In short, I think this is just not fair enough by any degree to be completely viable.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Angles of death on September 25, 2010, 23:56
Angel of restriction (I can't think of a discription)

You can only hold 3 weapons, one prepared, one in inventory and one wielded.

You can only hold 4 items (Phase devices, stimpacks etc)

Bullets and explosions do WAY more damage. (You should start with a blue armour so you don't get shredded by the F.H's in the first level)

You can only hold 3 piles of ammo. No more (A pile of ammo is the maximum one slot of inventory can hold full of ammo, you know a pile of shotgun ammo would be 50 shells)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: kossa on October 20, 2010, 06:34
Angel of Mediocrity

Description: You look at your broomstick. You were never good at anything. While others excel at something you painfully crawl to learn the basics of survival.

Effects: No advanced traits or Master traits. Only basic traits. Needs 100% more points to level up.
Or:       No Master traits. More 25% for each level of difficulty (25% HntR, 50% HmP, 75% UV, 100% N!).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Patashu on October 21, 2010, 18:56
While RNG chooses your traits it never can be easier than normal challenge.

Angel of Wall-Hugging
You're the wall-hugger. Literaly. While you're not near the wall and there are enemies on the screen, you receive 7 damage every action. But while you're near the wall you get +1 to defence. You always start near the wall.

How about 1 damage instead of 7? It's still going to discourage you and thus achieve the purpose of the challenge, but not be a killer.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Sachiko on November 08, 2010, 13:08
(Just for Fun, so probably painfully unbalanced, but I'm just tossing something out)

Angel Of North Star

Demons you say? Ha! They are no match for the legendary Hokuto Shinken!
Imagine if Doomguy knew this deadly 2000 year old art...He would tear through hell like paper.

Game: You are automatically named Kenshiro.
Fists only. no knives, no chainsaw, no special Melee weapons.
you always gib the enemy in one to two hits, except boss-types, like the AoD, and Cybie.
They go down in 3 or 4.
You have dodgemaster, Iro3, Brute3, Hellrunner, TaN3.

I really don't have anything else. it's not even a serious idea, so yeah.

This made my day. I couldn't stop laughing when I looked at it! XD

There's just one little problem... We don't know where are demons' power points.

Aaaaanyways! My own personal contribution after being silent for so long!

Angel of ghosts

Even though you are outside the Phobos base, and believe you are asleep, the truth is, you were with the rest of the team when you first delved into hell, and like the rest, you died. You're just not aware of it. Your enemies are, though. And not even death will save you from them!

+You can pass through walls.
+You can pass through enemies, except Lost Souls.
+You can't be attacked in melee, except by Lost Souls. Only ranged attacks will hurt you.

-You can't do melee attacks, only ranged attacks can hurt your enemies. The exception to this is Lost Souls.
-Your inventory is reduced. You cannot carry as much stuff, because you're not corporeal, and thus can only carry what you can hold inside your ectoplasm.
-Ranged attacks do more damage. The legions of hell are VERY experienced in causing pain to souls.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kg on December 16, 2010, 19:09
Angel of Deafness

<Insert story here>
Yea, you can't hear monsters, explosions, door openings - anything. But hey, your sight is increased and you gain +1 to LOS! It could be a fun challenge, since you often depend on listening and corner shooting.

PS

Not sure if I hadn't posted it before, excuse me if I had done so.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on December 16, 2010, 19:14
Angel of Deafness

<Insert story here>
Yea, you can't hear monsters, explosions, door openings - anything. But hey, your sight is increased and you gain +1 to LOS! It could be a fun challenge, since you often depend on listening and corner shooting.

PS

Not sure if I hadn't posted it before, excuse me if I had done so.
This sounds like how I used to play DoomRL... but without MCe.

Speaking of which, who are still using MCe nowadays?  It seems to have gone out of vogue or something...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on January 16, 2011, 12:20
Angel of Restriction
"Your mother always told you : 'Don't do this. It's bad for you'. Too bad that you didn't remember all of them precisely. But now, affected by demons, it looks like you're regaining your memories. However you seem to be composing by yourself some parts of your mother's advises. Now, every action has some chance to be restricted for the future. And because your mother taught you well, you're now gaining 2 traits every levelup."

The chances are, roughly:
Shooting a given weapon: 1/25;
Moving in a given direction: 1/20;
Picking up medpack: 1/15;
Reloading a given weapon: 1/10;
Altreloading: 1/10;
Altfiring: 1/10;
Modding armor: 1/10;
Picking up an armor: 1/10;
Open doors: 1/10;
Push barrels: 1/5;
Picking up non-medpack item: 1/5;
Modding a weapon: 1/5;
Using given powerup: 1/4;

Of course, it shouldn't restrict you from completing the game, for example restrict you from shooting every weapon.
So, at the start it would be easier than normal game, but in the end you won't be able to do almost anything, but you will have pretty big amount of traits.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Generic on January 16, 2011, 13:03
Moving in a given direction: 1/20;
I don't think I'll be playing this challenge mode any time soon. :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: IGTN on January 19, 2011, 23:17
Angel of Explosions

Things always seem to blow up around you. Fuel barrels, medical waste containers, the occasional ammo cache, even the coffee machine sprayed you then burst into flames once. Now that you're going into hell, things are blowing up around you even more. All blast radii are increased by 1, or by 2 if they were 3 or more before.

This applies to imps, cacos, B's, barrels, rockets, mancubi, revenants, viles, and everything else that does splash damage.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Garlyle on January 20, 2011, 01:36
Angel of Explosions

Things always seem to blow up around you. Fuel barrels, medical waste containers, the occasional ammo cache, even the coffee machine sprayed you then burst into flames once. Now that you're going into hell, things are blowing up around you even more. All blast radii are increased by 1, or by 2 if they were 3 or more before.

This applies to imps, cacos, B's, barrels, rockets, mancubi, revenants, viles, and everything else that does splash damage.
This... actually sounds like a lot of fun!  Of course, fireangel would break it and on easier difficulties you could have it before encountering most of the stuff that would make that dangerous...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Thexare on February 11, 2011, 19:41
Angel of Choice
You have a favorite gun or blade you've mastered the use of, and you bring it with you on every mission. You can't stand to be seperated from it.

Effect: Choose any one specific weapon - even an exotic or a unique! (Dragonslayer and Artifacts obviously omitted, uniques/exotics limited to those you've already found, doesn't count toward collection records) You start with it and a full stack of ammunition, if applicable. However! You cannot use any other weapon, not even the same category - no Trigun/Beretta dualgunning, no switching to a Double Shotgun to clear a room of Lost Souls, and so on. Dual-wielding Blasters yet to be determined.

This gives you a considerable advantage over other specialized challenges in that you're guaranteed to start with a useful item, but deprives you of AoMr's dualgunning, AoSg's ability to switch shotguns as warranted, and AoB's chance at the Dragonslayer or Longinus Spear.

Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Tesmador on February 13, 2011, 05:27
PLEASE give us this one:
(maybe unlocked with the Arch-Vile Rank or later)

Angle of 100 action hero
"You are fireangel AND army of the damned! You are ammochain and eagle eye!
You are a fucking bastard!"
Like  Angel of 100, but the traits do not block anything.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Nameless on February 16, 2011, 15:57
Some of these may have been suggested before, I am not about to read 31 pages to check. Also? Maaaaaan, I wish I could actually play some of these.

Angel of Retribution
You dirty my armor? You die!
At any given time, only a single enemy can be 'in-focus'. Your focus is initially determined by whichever enemy enters your line of sight first (preferring the nearest, then most dangerous, if simultaneous). However, this can be overridden by an enemy causing direct damage to you, in which case they become in-focus and cannot be overridden. When the in-focus enemy dies, your focus resets and any other nearby enemies are considered to have simultaneously re-entered your line of sight.
Enemies which ARE NOT in-focus are invisible (although their bullets / sounds are not) and the player suffers -4 to accuracy against them.
Enemies which ARE in-focus can be sensed outside your line of sight and suffer -4 accuracy against the player.

Angel of Escalation
You're not the only one on Phobos who's learning ...
Each kill nets you twice as much experience as usual. For each set of stairs you descend, all enemies gain a small incremental bonus to their stats. And each time you kill an enemy, there's an additional chance that the next enemy of that type will arm(or) themselves with higher-tier or even modded equipment.

Angel of Forging
This is the end which you point at the bad guy.
Gaining experience does not give you traits. Instead, you start with both a chaingun and combat shotgun in hand. Reaching experience levels 2 to 4 will spawn a random exotic item at your feet. Reaching higher experience levels with spawn a random unique item at your feet.

Angel of the Apocalypse
Where I walk, no demons dare tread.
Every time you step off of a tile, it turns to lava. To be fair, maze levels are not generated.

Angel of Fortune
This just got interesting.
All normal levels are generated to contain both extra barrels and a vault. The catch? Levers never safely explode the barrels and the stairs are always placed within the vault.

Angel of Fate
The die is cast, and your guns are loaded. Let blood rain.
There are no stairs to special levels. Instead, most standard levels (excluding L14 and L24) place two regular stairs. Moving onto either of their tiles triggers a flavor message. Which you choose determines the special condition for the next level. Some examples of these could be:
"So the hunter becomes the hunted ..." Spawns a boss monster.
"The hoard awaits you ..." Killing any enemy spawns two more elsewhere.
"Ugh, such a slog ..." Any damage to the player or enemies is reduced by a half.
"Even the air is jumpy ..." Explosion radiuses are increased and knockback is doubled.
And so on, to a dozen or more total.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Thexare on February 17, 2011, 21:00
PLEASE give us this one:
(maybe unlocked with the Arch-Vile Rank or later)

Angle of 100 action hero
"You are fireangel AND army of the damned! You are ammochain and eagle eye!
You are a fucking bastard!"
Like  Angel of 100, but the traits do not block anything.
Name one current challenge that's nothing more than "X made easier".

Honestly, that was the biggest concern I had with my idea, but that's why it adds a new restriction to go along with the easier part


@Nameless:

Angel of Fate:
The Horde one would make a YAAM completely impossible. Perhaps Horde maps could instead consist of double the normal number of enemies, spawned as though it was on a slightly easier floor.

Angel of Escalation:
Cool idea. So if an enemy spawns with modded equipment, we can pick it up? Considering it'll keep happening, I don't forsee that really being much of an issue, but it could certainly bring the balance of mods and assemblies into question.

Oh god, Former Captains with an Assault Rifle.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on February 20, 2011, 21:45
Angel of Fairplay
Why should DoomGuy get all the fun?
In this challenge mode, all objects and power-ups work equally for friend and foe alike, more so than before.  See that minigun on the floor?  Well, the former human just picked it up, together with the Invulnerability Globe next to it.

Have fun.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Deathwind on February 21, 2011, 00:11
Sounds like fun but it would take a MAJOR overhaul in the enemy AI.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Game Hunter on February 24, 2011, 21:08
Angel of Demons

"No random levels here! Starting at the Entry Base, you'll descend from one special level to the next until finally arriving at the Phobos Arena. You have to complete all of them, too!"

The idea here is to play a game of DoomRL with nothing but the 11 red-stairs levels, Base Entry, Hellgate, and Phobos Arena (and maybe HF if you want). The order would be according to the first level of possible appearance, like so:

Base Entry -> Hell's Arena -> Chained Court (hard) -> The Wall -> Hell's Armory -> Halls of Carnage -> Hellgate -> Unholy Cathedral -> City of Skulls -> Spider's Lair -> The Vaults -> Mortuary -> Lava Pits -> Phobos Arena(HF)

Stairs won't appear until the level is complete, meaning you have to go through every one. Alternatively, you COULD try to exit all of them and such, but it'll make killing the Cyberdemon basically impossible. (The only possibly without completing a level is the nuclear BFG, which could be changed around if necessary.)

Since some of the levels are (virtually) impossible without some help, you'll get some. Combat knife will show up at the end of Base Entry (like in AoB) for players wanting to melee, a couple envirosuit packs will appear at Lava Pits entrance, stuff like that. (As for UC, there's a new consumable that would at least allow for the possibility to win without investing in Bru/Ber.)

Due to completing every special (something a lot people may not accomplish until far later in their playing) I'd set the bar pretty high to attempt this, rank-wise. Need at least a few Golds, probably.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on February 24, 2011, 21:40
Angel of Demons
You forgot that this automatically blocks Explorer and Conqueror badges.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: MaiZure on February 24, 2011, 21:52
Angel of Demons


This should probably be called Angel of Conquest :P
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Deathwind on February 24, 2011, 23:43
you would need to double the ammo drops and spawn some rockets at the wall but I could see it...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: MaiZure on February 24, 2011, 23:50
you would need to double the ammo drops and spawn some rockets at the wall but I could see it...

Extra ammo, I agree
Arena already drops around 20 rockets and the launch while Armory will drop 20 more already...definitely more than enough for The Wall.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Deathwind on February 25, 2011, 00:04
it's likely the rockets from the arena would be spent in chained court on the AM and the armory is after the wall, all I'm saying is spawn about 6 rockets or reorder the levels so the wall is later.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Fanta Hege on February 25, 2011, 10:11
Angel of Pyrrhic

This is a battle you just can't win.. Any corpse that spends more than 4 seconds on your line of sight will automaticly revive itself, Even archvile ones. You will probably run into more corpses as usual aswell. and in N? They revive even faster!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on February 25, 2011, 10:19
Angel of Pyrrhic

This is a battle you just can't win.. Any corpse that spends more than 4 seconds on your line of sight will automaticly revive itself, Even archvile ones. You will probably run into more corpses as usual aswell. and in N? They revive even faster!
I'm sure this belongs here (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,3434.0.html), together with a THE HORRIBLE idea.

(=
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Deathwind on February 27, 2011, 20:59
Angel of Apollo: You begin with a (cursed) nano-modded rocket launcher, red armor and plasteel boots. You may swap armor, but if the set you are wearing is ever completely destroyed you instantly suffocate.
This just seemed too good to stay in the horrible idea thread. It's not a challenge but a reward for earning all of those badges (or make it for medals).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: grommile on March 06, 2011, 10:54
Little reluctant to wade through a 32-page thread looking to see if this has already been suggested, so:

I'd quite like an Angel of Customization mode, where you can "build your own" by enabling multiple (non-conflicting) challenge modes, or possibly even breaking down the existing ones into finer-grained setups.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kg on March 06, 2011, 12:32
I'd say to set score multiplier on custom challenges (based on individual challenge difficulty), so if it's easy, score is multiplied less... And uhm, for challenges like AoB + AoMC.. imo don't allow :)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Gargulec on March 06, 2011, 17:19
Been suggested before, KK stated that it is nigh-impossible under current challenge modes implementation. Shame, really.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Solarn on March 21, 2011, 02:15
Angel of the Apocalypse
Where I walk, no demons dare tread.
Every time you step off of a tile, it turns to lava. To be fair, maze levels are not generated.
This is like the old Angel of Flood idea (on page 6 or so of this thread), except with Lava. I like it.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: DeathDealer on March 24, 2011, 13:22
Angel of Madness:

With an increasing chance over time (similar to nightmare difficulty resurrection formula) the following may occur:

1) Wall that is not already bloodstained becomes bloodstained (Normal or Dark>Random Bloodstained>Hell; Hell>Random Bloodstained)

2) A wall that is bloodstained [a la #1] shifts into a single empty square nearby, as long as it would be diagonally adjacent to at least one other wall tile.

3) Demons within sight of player phases between 1-3 spaces closer to player after it's action. Monsters beyond sight range teleport 3-5 spaces closer. Ranged specialist demons (Arch-viles, Arachnotrons) don't teleport once within player sight. Arch-viles teleport corpses closer to the player instead. Twice as likely if monster is on damaging terrain.

4) Powerups may become 'Cyclopean' powerups, acting the same except causing a very short term status effect, 'Madness', in addition to their normal effects:
+ Lasts three seconds
+ Appearance similar to invulnerability except Grey background, White objects.
+ All walls gain an additional chance to move (doubled for walls that have changed already, possible for unchanged walls to move)
+ Powerups behave like the new melee demon AI, skirting edge of vision and charging en mass, activating themselves on contact.
+ Corpses become 'Cyclopean' powerups with no other effect except to extend the Madness status by 1 second and immediately cause another chance for all other effects (wall staining, wall movement, teleportation, powerup corruption) to occur.
+ XP from monsters increases by 2% per turn of Madness status remaining.

Possible adjustments:

Probably unbalanced for melee berserkers since it causes enemies to automatically close the distance. Perhaps whenever you are "going berserk" from the berserker trait the enemy you just hit teleports 1-3 spaces away and the line reads "...and insane as well!"

Implications:

This mode increases difficulty in the following ways:
+ Shifting walls would slowly shift all levels towards cavern-like layouts with little containment and hazardous lines of sight.
+ Enemies would continually shift closer to the player, bypassing all barriers, and place them under constant threat. This would be especially dangerous as the time in a level passed due to the possibility of multiple monsters phasing into close proximity together.
+ The potential for helpful powerups to cause more rapid wall disruption and enemy appearance would add serious risks to normally purely beneficial items.
+ The movement and self-activation of powerups during Madness could easily cause difficulties for players even though it could potentially be used advantageously.
+ Being near corpses during Madness could result in a long duration of this primarily negative status.

This mode reduces difficulty in the following ways:
+ During Madness corpses can't be raised and might easily be destroyed as powerups.
+ Most enemies will move closer much more quickly, giving short range or melee characters an advantage.
+ Powerup position can be manipulated somewhat during Madness.
+ Enemies teleporting from beyond sight range into sight range might be easily targeted before having a chance to attack. (Depending on the behind the scenes timing system)
+ Additional XP gain during Madness status.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Simon-v on March 25, 2011, 11:58
Angel of Madness

I am not easily scared, but this is going to give me nightmares.

Please make it so i can have my nightmares.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Creepy on March 25, 2011, 18:50
Some of these probably have already been suggested, but I don't really want to wade through 33 pages to find out.

Sounds fine in my head
Angel of Memory:
Simple. The screen does not display anything outside your immediate view. When you wander into the next room, the area you've walked through doesn't become dim, it goes black entirely. If you can't see it from where you stand, it's not displayed at all. Computer maps make walls and whatnot display, but wouldn't display items or the stairs. Find them yourself.

Angel of Iron:
Instead of having your pick of traits, your MaxHP rises as if you had taken Ironman when you level up. Your maximal HP will skyrocket, but you have to learn how to use weapons effectively without so much as Eagle Eye to cover their weaknesses.

Angel of Chance:
Level exits only spawn after flipping a switch. Every non-special level has at least one, obviously. Levels with more than one basically force you to prepare for the worst. Switches should probably be spawned more often to go with it; if there's only one switch on the level, it's obviously the one you want. Early on this wouldn't be too bad, but later in the game the fact that you have to find the right switch, survive any wrong switches, AND find the level exit afterward means it'll be very hard to do controlled dives near the endgame.

Blocks Gambler's Shield, obviously. And should probably not spawn nigh-gamestopper switches (like the "everywhere is lava!" thing) though that might be balanced out by also removing the "kill all badguys" switches too. Homing Phase would need to change behavior (Or just not spawn); it could teleport one to the exit switch if the exit isn't already spawned, or maybe it just acts as a regular phase device if the exit isn't around.

Probably retarded:
Angel of Vile:
You have Arch-Vile powers. Alt-firing with empty hands (No weapon selected) lets you use the Archvile's magical fireblast of doom. The problem is that anything killed with fireblasts results in destroyed loot. Also, corpses in your view randomly respawn.

Angel of the Warp:
Changing tactics does not cause you to run, but instead acts as a phase device and tires you out. In your former place, a random demon is spawned (Not a former human). Phase devices used by anyone have the same effect; a former human using a phase device will warp across the map, and a Hell Knight or something worse will arrive where it left from. And for whatever reason, an inordinate number of monsters are carrying phase devices. Phase out of a bad situation if you need, but beware the Mancubus that spawned in your place.

Angel of Hell:
You are a Hell Knight; you cannot use regular weaponry, but you have a built-in plasma launcher and a mean right hook. No traits, but at level 6 you mature into a Baron of Hell (Armor/Health upgrades, improved natural weapons). Demonstrate that you are the baddest monster in Hell by destroying the Cyberdemon yourself.

Lack of weapons are made up for by the natural weaponry they have, though it lacks a certain punch later and can't be modded. Armor works as normal, on top of their natural armor. Probably should have limited inventory (Where you gonna carry that crap? Your naked hide?). The early game will be a slaughterfest as you mow through Former Humans, but later monsters won't take your shit and you don't have the firepower or special traits to force the issue; that plasma/acid cannon isn't anywhere near as effective as a rocket, to say nothing of a BFG.

Would probably be an awfully gimmicky thing, though.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Deathwind on March 25, 2011, 20:28
Iron, vile, and hell all sound fine to me

We had memory before (we called it darkness) it wasn't really any harder than a normal game.

Chance and warp sound like bad ideas
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Thexare on March 25, 2011, 20:50
Angel of Iron:
Instead of having your pick of traits, your MaxHP rises as if you had taken Ironman when you level up. Your maximal HP will skyrocket, but you have to learn how to use weapons effectively without so much as Eagle Eye to cover their weaknesses.
Sounds very similar to the old Angel of D&D (removed in .9.9.1 I believe) - gained I think 5 HP every level and +1 ToHit every other level, but traits only every third or fourth level.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Ander Hammer on March 26, 2011, 01:13
(removed in .9.9.1 I believe)

What? Why? :<
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Fanta Hege on March 29, 2011, 07:20
This one just popped to my head all of a sudden, though I'm not sure if its a good idea or not, was still intresting enough;

Angel Of Time-Lost

Every 2 - 4 levels, the level generation will act as if you were 5 - 20 levels deeper or higher then you should normally be, this effects everything apart from special level generation.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: bardysya on March 29, 2011, 10:03
Angel of Rolling Dice:
After each hit, you roll dices. If the number more than 6, enemy will get 2x for 7, 3x for 8, 4x for 9,  5x for 10, 6x for 11, and 7x for 12 damage, if less than 6, 2x for 5, 3x for 4, 4x for 3, 5x for 2, 6x for 1 less damage. If number is 6 deals normal damage to enemy. This applies to monsters too.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Thexare on March 30, 2011, 13:14
What? Why? :<
Probably because that was a crapload of free HP, and enough free accuracy that chaingun builds would be stupidly easy... and just about the only viable option, as it'd take a prohibitively long time to get a shotgun or pistol build going.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: tehtmi on April 09, 2011, 03:14
Angel of Memory:
Simple. The screen does not display anything outside your immediate view. When you wander into the next room, the area you've walked through doesn't become dim, it goes black entirely. If you can't see it from where you stand, it's not displayed at all. Computer maps make walls and whatnot display, but wouldn't display items or the stairs. Find them yourself.

If you want to try this out, you can get a very similar experience in the current version of the game by setting BlindMode = true in config.lua.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on April 09, 2011, 10:34
If you want to try this out, you can get a very similar experience in the current version of the game by setting BlindMode = true in config.lua.
This used to exist in the form of Angel of Darkness.

It has subsequently be taken out.

[Ed: Referring to the Angel of Memory]
Title: Angel of Chaos Planes
Post by: Melon on April 12, 2011, 15:11
Chaos plane is slowly taking "control" over the realm. Everywhere you monstrous enemies waiting to shed blood.

Every time you hurt the Hell spawn you open a small gate between our and the chaos realm, that is powered by pain channeled from you enemy. The only way to seal it, is to kill the source as soon as possible. Otherwise more scum will find way to our world.


If you hurt an enemy, you have 3d6 + 6 turns to kill it. If you don't do it in the given time, a clone of that enemy will appear (for which you won't get experience) After that, you have to hurt your enemy again for another clone to appear. If you manage to kill the clone it just disappears (along with ammo, but not with stuff that it had picked-up) just as if it was only an illusion. You don't get experience for clones.

Bosses cannot spawn it's clones.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: MaiZure on April 12, 2011, 17:52

If you hurt an enemy, you have 3d6 + 6 turns to kill it. If you don't do it in the given time, a clone of that enemy will appear (for which you won't get experience) After that, you have to hurt your enemy again for another clone to appear. If you manage to kill the clone it just disappears (along with ammo, but not with stuff that it had picked-up) just as if it was only an illusion. You don't get experience for clones.

Bosses cannot spawn it's clones.

Now that's one way to discourage radar shooting with shotguns!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on April 13, 2011, 08:19
Now that's one way to discourage radar shooting with shotguns!

Well, just trying to make a new challenge [;
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: raekuul on April 15, 2011, 08:43
Angel of Wisdom

You get 20 traits at start. No monsters give experience. Choose well.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on April 15, 2011, 09:15
Angel of Wisdom is too easy. Better would be if you would have only 2 inventory slots, but 25 free traits at the start. Of course, no exp gain.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: raekuul on April 15, 2011, 12:36
ZZ, I cheated myself to Character Level 23 and still died before Hellgate on HMP. Are you suggesting that the Master Traits would be so helpful in the early game that they would allow you to steamroll your way through the entire game?

The main point of Angel of Wisdom is to try and force the player to plan their character path from the word "go". The other purpose is so that people can experiment more freely with trait combinations.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: grommile on April 15, 2011, 12:46
ZZ, I cheated myself to Character Level 23 and still died before Hellgate on HMP. Are you suggesting that the Master Traits would be so helpful in the early game that they would allow you to steamroll your way through the entire game?
From where I'm sitting, it looks like a lot of the master traits become decidedly unattractive when you get 20 trait picks all in one go at the start.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZZ on April 15, 2011, 12:48
There is no challenge in this. Even on UV standart game you don't get enough exp to advance to level 20. So there is just no challenge aspect in this angel. You're just given free traits. What I suggest is that you get massive amount of expirience, maybe even enough to promote yourself to level 25, but you must fight without using any medkits, spare mods and armor and with constant ammo shortage.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: raekuul on April 15, 2011, 13:47
I can see how that could be a problem. Maybe lower it to 15 traits?

@Grom: I didn't actually have a master trait; I was going for my favorite Power Pistol build.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: BirdoPrey on April 15, 2011, 17:11
How about this modification that I suggested in the gun kata thread -
Angel of Alzheimers (or Forgetfulness or something)
Start the game with 15 traits of your choosing - Every time you level up you pick a trait to lose a level in.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Tuomari Jim on April 16, 2011, 01:06
How about this modification that I suggested in the gun kata thread -
Angel of Alzheimers (or Forgetfulness or something)
Start the game with 15 traits of your choosing - Every time you level up you pick a trait to lose a level in.

I think it would be hilarious, but I'm not sure how it would play out. You could just try to avoid monsters as much as you can, which would essentially make this challenge an easier version of Angel of Pacifism. Moreover, it would take forever to lose the 15th(the first to go in this challenge) level, meaning you could just dance through the earlier levels without worries even if they decided to go full out aggro, unless exp requirements are reversed to reflect normal gameplay. But then again, alzheimer's gets worse as time progresses, so why would you forget more in the beginning?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Deathwind on April 16, 2011, 01:10
add the level up effect from Angel of Pacifism to balance it
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Potman on April 21, 2011, 08:55
Demon of Something. No, not Angel. Demon.

Bored on assaulting all hells by yourself? Tired of being the hero to wipe out evil? Let's switch the roles!

You are now a puny imp, sent by yourself to assault a human stronghold. Your mission: break through the mortal defenses to destroy the latest innovation in their weapons technology, the dreaded Cyber-Titan! What waits you is humans, sergeants, captains, and commandoes, all with their Former prefix removed, as well as vicious bloodthirsty hounds to replace demons, small attack drones instead of lost souls, mobile heavy weapon turrets instead of cacodemons, power armored robot soldiers instead of hell knights or barons, and other deadly and scary machinery of mankind, the best they have to offer against the forces of hell! What is a tiny demon to do?

You have naught your fireball and pansy claw attack. Worse, while you could definitely scavenge some weapons from your fallen enemies, you have never seen such high-tech magic before, and must learn yourself to use them in the hard way: thus, any traits involving the use of any sort of weaponry (SoaG, Reloader, Triggerhappy, etc.) cannot be chosen at all until you have handled any weapon that benefits from them!

Also unlike Doomguy, if YOU don't survive, there are hordes of unlucky imps behind you, ready to be sent for another go immediately afterwards. Good luck!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ParaSait on April 21, 2011, 09:11
Sounds more like a mod idea.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: raekuul on April 21, 2011, 09:59
I can see it now. "DoomRL: I Wanna Be The Imp," or even "DoomRL: Can I Really Be The Imp?"
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: BirdoPrey on April 21, 2011, 17:34
Angel of Doom III - all open spaces are replaced with tiny corridors with no room to dodge.  All paths are completely linear. Your vision radius fluctuates between 5 and 0. 1 to 3 imps spawn in every room/hallway. Whenever you step on a medpack or armor monsters spawn around you. All the monster glyphs are scarier looking.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Deathwind on April 22, 2011, 23:53
Angel of Doom III
The horrible idea thread is a few posts down...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: BirdoPrey on April 23, 2011, 00:55
Whoops! Looks like I am a Bad Poster.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Melon on April 24, 2011, 06:26
DoomRL: Imp my ride
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Gargulec on April 28, 2011, 04:51
Angel Of Adjoran
Silent Wind never stops running - and so can't you. For ever turn in which you did not move, you lose cumulative 1HP (so it is 1HP on first still turn, 2 on second, 3 on third and so on).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Simon-v on April 28, 2011, 05:08
Angel Of Adjoran
Silent Wind never stops running - and so can't you. For every turn in which you did not move, you lose cumulative 1HP (so it is 1HP on first still turn, 2 on second, 3 on third and so on).
Seeing that you only have 50HP to begin with and you CANNOT DO ANYTHING while moving (except reloading with Shottyman, which you will probably never reach), this sounds like a Horrible Idea to me.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Deathwind on April 29, 2011, 04:42
make it no damage for the first non-move action and add the penalty to the second and beyond
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Omegthemad on May 04, 2011, 17:08
This has already probably been suggested in some form, but...

Angel of All Trades
Real men don't specialise, and in this challenge, neither do you! All Advanced traits are barred forever, because you don't specialise!
(Possibly as a slight consolation, you can now take Finesse & Hellrunner to level 3 without meeting any skill requirements beforehand. Assuming this doesn't make it too easy, that is.)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: PSYCHO MANTITS on May 12, 2011, 16:19
Angel of OCD
You know, this whole mess is just one of my many problems.

Every two levels (just like in AoP) or picking a new trait, one compulsive behavior is randomly chosen. CBs may vary but you have to follow them and with stacking them later on, it can and will get really difficult. When trying to go deeper while still having one or more CBs to fulfil a player would get a message he still has something important to do there.
random CBs: you have to destroy every barrel, you need 100% killrate, you must visit all special levels available, you can't pick small health globes
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Thexare on May 13, 2011, 17:20
Kind of a joke idea, really, but it could work:

Angel of Genre Blindness
You know that guy in every horror movie ever that does the worst possible thing whenever given a chance? That's you. Let's see YOU try to survive.

Drawbacks and Explanations:
1. Cannot fire without an enemy targeted. No directly shooting at doors, no scouting. These characters never think to break down a door or keep their gun trained on anything that might be in the darkness.
2. You stop running whenever you take damage. They trip and fall over the most minor injuries.
3. You take one more damage by default, but gain two points of armor whenever you stand within the blast radius of a barrel. They like to hide behind useless cover.
4. All guns take an extra 0.3s to fire, and all non-shotguns take a penalty of 1 point to Accuracy. Shotguns? In AoGB, shotguns can miss. They don't handle guns worth a damn, and this reflects their clumsy handling.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: s0ulman on May 18, 2011, 04:28
Angel of Corruption (or Angel of Rot, if corruption sounds too ADOMish)

Hell's air doesn't smell with roses. It smells with acid, decay, corruption and things you don't even want to think about. Good news: marines are made of pure awesome and can resist this hazardous atmosphere. Bad news: your stuff can't.

Weapon degrades as you use it, until it becomes 1d1. Armor loses 1% durability per move when you wear it.

There was Angel of Smth somewhere on the forum that restricted reloading. Well this is the same idea applied to melee and ammochain builds too - you'll have to use all those pistols and shotguns scattered around the level and keep your big gun safe until you really need it.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on May 18, 2011, 06:12
Weapon degrades as you use it, until it becomes 1d1. Armor loses 1% durability every turns when you wear it.
1% durability each turn?  That means it lasts less than 10 seconds game time.

O.O
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: s0ulman on May 18, 2011, 07:23
When I said "turn", I meant "move" or "player action". The speed of armor corrosion was supposed to be the same as the current speed of armor regeneration. So that the tactical armor, for example, would neither gain, nor lose durability.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Sirdec on May 27, 2011, 00:52
Kind of a joke idea, really, but it could work:

Angel of Genre Blindness
You know that guy in every horror movie ever that does the worst possible thing whenever given a chance? That's you. Let's see YOU try to survive.

Drawbacks and Explanations:
1. Cannot fire without an enemy targeted. No directly shooting at doors, no scouting. These characters never think to break down a door or keep their gun trained on anything that might be in the darkness.
2. You stop running whenever you take damage. They trip and fall over the most minor injuries.
3. You take one more damage by default, but gain two points of armor whenever you stand within the blast radius of a barrel. They like to hide behind useless cover.
4. All guns take an extra 0.3s to fire, and all non-shotguns take a penalty of 1 point to Accuracy. Shotguns? In AoGB, shotguns can miss. They don't handle guns worth a damn, and this reflects their clumsy handling.

This would be pretty cool i think
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Passionario on June 27, 2011, 02:32
How about this modification that I suggested in the gun kata thread -
Angel of Alzheimers (or Forgetfulness or something)
Start the game with 15 traits of your choosing - Every time you level up you pick a trait to lose a level in.

Oh Hai (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,1168.msg15573/topicseen.html#msg15573)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: General Patton on July 01, 2011, 20:57
Angel of Legacy
The Multiverse is full of marines who've fought Hell. They had it easy. Your mission is nearly impossible. Fortunately, their victories are your strength.

The game is significantly harder, you can't advance without a 100% killrate and all special levels are mandatory, but most badges and some medals provide bonuses or make special levels easier. Most badges and medals cannot be earned on this mode, but completion may have its own reward.

Ideas for bonuses: Feel free to suggest more
Cyberdemon's Head-Cyberdemon(s) is 10% slower
UAC Star (bronze/silver/gold cluster)-+5%/10%/15% dodge rate
Gambler's Shield-Levers have more beneficial effects
Untouchable Badge-+1 armor
Experience Medal/Cross-+10%/20% experience gain
Malicious Knives Cross-+15% attack speed in melee
Hell Arena Key-2 large health globes randomly placed in Hell's Arena
Hell Armorer Badge-Shambler has -2 armor
Technician Badges-More mods spawned
Armorer Badges-More specials spawned
Strongman Badges-+2 damage and +1 accuracy in melee per badge
Speedrunner Badges-+5% move speed per badge
Berserker Badges-Start with knife/chainsaw/Butcher's Cleaver/double chainsaw/ripper
Marksman Badges-Start with blaster/storm bolter pistol/Trigun/Anti-Freak Jackal/Grammaton Cleric Beretta/Trigun
Shottyman Badges-Start with double shotgun/assault shotgun/plasma shotgun/super shotgun/Jackhammer
Lightfoot Badges-Ammo stack size increased by 10% per badge
Eagerness Badges-+10% medpack effect and envirosuit duration per badge
Runner Badges-+5% move speed per badge
Inquisitor Badges-+10% powerup effect/duration per badge
Quartermaster Badges-The nuke level effect comes with +1 minute per badge
Brick Badges-Makes the wall thinner while widening the treasure room (for safer phasing) and making its wall thicker (to protect the loot)
Lava badges-Adds envirosuit packs to the starting island
Reaper Badges-Reduce enemy revive rate (global)
Longinus Badges-Adds berserk packs

This will make badges and medals more fun to earn.

Just to clarify how difficult this challenge should be to justify having all these bonuses, it should be nearly impossible on HNTR without any bonuses. On N! with every bonus, it should still be decently challenging.

Extra difficulty stuff: Also suggest stuff
Enemies reviving on any difficulty level.
Enemies taking less damage from acid/lava.
Enemies having increased sight range, damage, accuracy, health, armor, speed.
The Wall rebuilding itself.
The Spider's Lair webs-pull-to-center thing I've heard suggested.
The Halls of Carnage having a second slower lava wave that comes from the right.
The Arena Master trying to fix the fights by randomly blasting you.
Random health loss from the Angel of Death's aura of unlife.

Other stuff:
Option to disable individual bonuses.
Record of bonuses at end of AoL mortem.

Ideally, this mode would be a sort of ultra-campaign through which one accesses the "TRUE ULTIMATE FINAL SECRET BONUS ENDING" after getting really good at the game and deliberately going for every badge they can be bothered to get.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Deathwind on July 01, 2011, 23:40
Make it just badges or just medals unless you cannot get traits.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Thexare on July 02, 2011, 23:30
I'd make the Trigun the Marksman Diamond one instead of the GCB. GCB's only really good on a pistol game (not bad otherwise, but not a great choice either), while Trigun gives you a nuke for every invuln globe you find, pistol game or not; one level of Ironman will give you the HP for two Trigun nukes.

Drop GCB to Platinum, and the Jackal to Gold.

Love the concept, though. Reminds me of the suggestion for a super-hard Nightmare with unlockable reductions in difficulty. Which raises another issue:

For those that want it harder, allow people to disable individual bonuses on another menu before starting the game. And for recordkeeping, add a note of which bonuses are active to the end of any AoL mortem.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: metroidRL on July 03, 2011, 21:37
Angel of Last-Place

It seems that no matter how much you try, you always end in last place.
And now that you are in hell, you find yourself in a tough situation


You are the last one in making any action, regardless of speed. This means that the enemies are the first ones to fire, walk, pick up items, use items, reload, ETC.

As a compensation, theres still the AI cooldown.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Deathwind on July 03, 2011, 23:41
I have no idea how that could even work with the way time is handled in this game...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: raekuul on July 04, 2011, 09:37
It really doesn't, since the game waits for your command anyway. The only time it'd be relevant is on the first move of a floor, and even then there's the ten move pause.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Drone on September 06, 2011, 08:28
Angel of Hallucination:

all icons apart from walls, floors and doors are randomised for icons, colours, sounds and names every level. So you might end up fighting a Baron of hell that looks like a Large Medpack labelled as "Plasma rifle" while making former commando noises. Would encourage extremely cautious play I suspect. Stuff in your inventory would have it's normal name but dropping it would show the name it has on that level.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: drugon on September 19, 2011, 09:38
Angel of Exclusiveness

On the start player receive two random exotic items (at least one weapon and special, armor, boots or weapon) that he already discovered. Player can use only exotics, assemblies and uniques. Normal weapon can't shoot (knife can not be thrown or used), normal armor and boots will not give any affect except move maluses. Small and large health globes aren't work, just like small and large med-packs (phase devices, envirosuit pack, Supercharge Globe, Berserk Pack, Computer Map and Tracking Map possibly too, need to test balance).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: gilgatex on September 19, 2011, 11:15
Angel of Conscience

Every time you brutally murder another being, you inflict 1 hp of damage to yourself as penance.

It's similar to Angel of Pacifism, but you can actually still attack.

Edit: Might be fun to have a different endgame narrative for this one too
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Ander Hammer on September 19, 2011, 15:26
Every time you brutally murder another being

What if you humanely euthanize them?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: gilgatex on September 19, 2011, 16:02
What if you humanely euthanize them?

Not sure how you would do that :p.  I was using the brutally murdered language for emphasis of the point of the challenge :)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Steve on September 30, 2011, 09:55
Angel of Apathy

   You sighned up for the UAC hoping to get a simple job that pays the bills, but instead These stupid demons decide to ruin your day, You don't bother consolidating your ammo, It's just too much work. Find anything larger than a knife? Forget about it, you don't want to get a workout swinging heavy stuff around, and Hell will freeze over before I unload a weapon after i went through all the the trouble of filling it up.

Pros: It's a challenge, who needs pros
Cons: You can't unload weapons.
         Ammo you find doesn't stack with any that you find later.
         The only melee weapons You can use are fists and knifes.

Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Tesmador on October 22, 2011, 08:01
Angel of induction

"You know about induction. You have one more: One more accuracy, one more hit point, one more armor, one more trait and do one more damage per shot.
But also the difficult level is one more. What does it meen about nightmare..."
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Bloax on October 25, 2011, 05:32
Score multiplier: 8|Ammo multiplier: 3 |Enemy Accuracy: +3|Enemy spawns:   WTF/+3(?)|Healing: 2.5x|XP Multiplier: 1.5 |Respawning (1.5x counters), player speed decreased by 15%, +60% enemy attack chance, no saving
;)

Oh, and you forgot the best of all;

One more level, for a grand total of 26 levels. Starting at 2, with 3 traits. :-)
I'd actually want to try that. Now, if only challenges stacked.. (AoD+Ao100, anyone?)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Uranium on October 25, 2011, 10:54
Score multiplier: 8|Ammo multiplier: 3 |Enemy Accuracy: +3|Enemy spawns:   WTF/+3(?)|Healing: 2.5x|XP Multiplier: 1.5 |Respawning (1.5x counters), player speed decreased by 15%, +60% enemy attack chance, no saving
;)

Oh, and you forgot the best of all;

One more level, for a grand total of 26 levels. Starting at 2, with 3 traits. :-)
I'd actually want to try that. Now, if only challenges stacked.. (AoD+Ao100, anyone?)

Doomguy Must Die difficulty?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Bloax on October 25, 2011, 11:34
Haha.

Also, I'd suggest giving two phase devices in Angel of Pacifism.
Because seriously, just getting stuck in a corridor with no way of getting out. (No way! You're a pacifist!)
Just sucks.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Sambojin on November 10, 2011, 02:32
Ok, there's 36 pages of posts. I haven't read all of them, so this may have been posted elsewhere.

After finishing a certain amount of Arch Angel missions (say 3) with an Arch Angel of Humanity as a definate, or at least once you you've finished all the Angel of missions on a decent difficulty, open up a new menu of challenge missions. *Foo* of Hell missions. Or perhaps just Single one, "Daemon of Mars", in which you have a class for each type of bad guy. Where you take on the persona of each of the game's enemies, with it's own mini-skill-tree (just normals and advanced), or a generic standard skill-up for levelling with mini-skills (or mods for standard equipment). You could take on hell at it's own game. A random amount of boosted formers spread throughout the levels (quite of few of them, with 1-8 traits, 50-70 health, modded equipment and armour) to represent all the marines that had a chance and died before Doomguy came along.

For some ideas on the daemon types, give them all their normal HP+5 with strange weapons or accuracy/speed/damage systems. Some weapons can run on "mana" (a constantly regenning ammo supply), hate (how many kills over the last "x" seconds), rage (H2H damage in the last "x" secs or turns, either from you or for everyone), fear (damage taken), trickery (boost for attack or ammo from dodges recently), scavenging (takes time, but you feed on corpses), daemon-tech (consume mod packs for ammo/damage boost) or unlife (health globes/super charges/invulnerability/berserks are your life and your damage/speed/skills). You could combine these or make them do slightly different things for different daemons (a skull gets a brief non-red berserk style boost for dodging, while a daemon gets its damage boost from taking damage), and life depending on their own form of carnage (skulls lose life whilst running and waiting, are naturally fast but have little normal dodging whilst daemons regen life but do little damage until they take some themselves).  Having the more tech-based daemon with regenning armour and mod-packs given on level up? Or imps that never run out of ammo but only do some real damage when they grab some life? A pain elemental that gains life off the damage their (or any) skulls do, but regen ammo (skulls) from damage taken? Mini-whizzkid-levelling, tech-eating arachnotrons with plasma guns they fuel off corpses? Why not? Pretty much an entirely new game, with a nicely evil slant to it. With the right traits, level-up types and boosters/combat styles I think it would work nicely. There's a million ways you could do it, to hell with perfectly balanced (yes, technicians are the best).

Perhaps with a yet another challenge level beyond this. Archdaemon of Earth. What this should be, I don't know....
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: raekuul on November 10, 2011, 06:01
Archangel of [REDACTED] and Archangel of [ALSO REDACTED] would have the same restrictions as Archangel of Haste, since they're replacing that.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Game Hunter on November 10, 2011, 07:30
For some ideas on the daemon types, give them all their normal HP+5 with strange weapons or accuracy/speed/damage systems. Some weapons can run on "mana" (a constantly regenning ammo supply), hate (how many kills over the last "x" seconds), rage (H2H damage in the last "x" secs or turns, either from you or for everyone), fear (damage taken), trickery (boost for attack or ammo from dodges recently), scavenging (takes time, but you feed on corpses), daemon-tech (consume mod packs for ammo/damage boost) or unlife (health globes/super charges/invulnerability/berserks are your life and your damage/speed/skills). You could combine these or make them do slightly different things for different daemons (a skull gets a brief non-red berserk style boost for dodging, while a daemon gets its damage boost from taking damage), and life depending on their own form of carnage (skulls lose life whilst running and waiting, are naturally fast but have little normal dodging whilst daemons regen life but do little damage until they take some themselves).  Having the more tech-based daemon with regenning armour and mod-packs given on level up? Or imps that never run out of ammo but only do some real damage when they grab some life? A pain elemental that gains life off the damage their (or any) skulls do, but regen ammo (skulls) from damage taken? Mini-whizzkid-levelling, tech-eating arachnotrons with plasma guns they fuel off corpses? Why not? Pretty much an entirely new game, with a nicely evil slant to it. With the right traits, level-up types and boosters/combat styles I think it would work nicely. There's a million ways you could do it, to hell with perfectly balanced (yes, technicians are the best).
A lot of this sounds like it could be modded into creation first. Indeed, many of the ideas in this thread, as well as the items one, can always be tested to some extent by creating a map that works with the concept. THIS one in particular, however, could probably use a lot of fleshing out in a test setting before we'd consider moving it into the real game. (I mean, that's practically a whole other game right there.)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Bloax on December 01, 2011, 01:50
Thinking about AoHumanity, perhaps make armors twice as good, and twice as durable.
Yes, that'd make you start out with a Red Armor 8/8 200%, but you're still limited to "at most" 10 hits before dying.

And even cacodemons hurt really, really much. :(
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Deathwind on December 01, 2011, 14:22
That's why they give you the mod packs...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Bloax on December 02, 2011, 11:00
It's not like the red armor is going to last a while, even if you bulk-mod it. (Picking a technie just for a Whizkid start isn't just the best decision.)
And after that, you'll have to use the wussy green armor. (Or blue, if you're lucky.)

And a difference of 2/3 armor is a lot when you have 10 health.

Not to mention that later in the game, about everything is going to get you in one hit anyway.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Deathwind on December 03, 2011, 20:52
That is why this is a BLADE level challenge, it's designed to be a test of active defense.

Try using that power mod on it instead and dodge more.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: snowstorm on December 22, 2011, 12:33
Here are my ideas for challenges:

Angel of Dimensions:
In addition to what you normally find around Phobos, every level has a "malign gateway" that spawns monsters. Destroying the gate gives xp but destroying spawns does not. AND stairs are unusable before the gate is closed. You don't have to kill everything but your job is to close the gate.

Angel of Surprise:
Monsters have teleportitis and teleport at a random rate. (Somebody already proposed teleportitis on the player, but didn't include that effect on the monsters).

Angel of The Boss:
After clearing a level a boss will appear (ala lava pits). Not necessary to clear every level.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Deathwind on January 10, 2012, 21:24
Dimensions:
Make it a special level (it could even reuse the name 'Hellgate'), the gate spawns one random monster per second till destroyed or closed (couple of levers for melee). Walking into the gate could warp you several floors or into a special challenge level (return to hells arena to defend your title?)

Surprise:
It would be hell to code and very unfair but it might be fun.

The Boss:
Have the boss be a out of depth random enemy with an out of depth random item drop.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: snowstorm on February 26, 2012, 04:51
Cybernetic Angel:
Start off with that delicious, but permanently equipped armor, a trusty side-arm and an intrinsic +1(and at a later level +2) to melee damage.
Too easy? Then since you are half-man half-machine, it seems only fitting that powerups and medpacks give you half the health boost.

Angel of Liero: (this is more fitting for the bad ideas thread)
Level is about 80% walls, but those walls break with any weapons you have (digging). Monsters tend to know where you are and "dig" to where you are.

Angel of Nightmares:
Nightmare enemies. Nightmare enemies everywhere.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Uitë on February 27, 2012, 03:50
Bring back Angel of Haste: No special levels, just Phobos Base Entry, 2 levels of Phobos, Phobos Anomaly, 3 levels of Deimos, Tower of Babel, 3 levels of Hell, Dis, and maybe Hell Fortress
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Hamster on February 27, 2012, 03:58
Bring back Angel of Haste: No special levels, just Phobos Base Entry, 2 levels of Phobos, Phobos Anomaly, 3 levels of Deimos, Tower of Babel, 3 levels of Hell, Dis, and maybe Hell Fortress
Angel of Semiconfidence.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ih8regin on February 27, 2012, 07:01
Angel of Min Carnage

You are too scared of those dice so you don't even try to roll them at all! The downside is that they seem to remain with all ones up, so you deal minimum damage. The upside is that you are 15% faster, since you don't have to roll those dice while all the others have to.

(I wonder if that one is actually passable. BFG dealing 10 damage? Rocket dealing 6? The only good weapon seems to be elephant gun with its 12 :P )
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Klear on February 27, 2012, 07:43
Angel of Min Carnage

You are too scared of those dice so you don't even try to roll them at all! The downside is that they seem to remain with all ones up, so you deal minimum damage. The upside is that you are 15% faster, since you don't have to roll those dice while all the others have to.

(I wonder if that one is actually passable. BFG dealing 10 damage? Rocket dealing 6? The only good weapon seems to be elephant gun with its 12 :P )

..or sharpshooter build, which would pretty much make this a standard game with a tougher beginning and a speed boost.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ih8regin on February 27, 2012, 09:42
a sharpshooter build might get nerfed by actually having pistols do xd2 instead of its full potential, just to make the trait somewhat worthy, but not eliminating the challenge altogether. Or even xd1, that is, NO effect of MSs. After all, to make a gun do maximum damage the Doomguy has to turn the dice, and he's afraid of them. :)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Uitë on February 27, 2012, 13:33
The new chainsword is 8d2 iirc, so melee is definitely the way to go. I assume that enemies' damage is reduced too? Accuracy is also determined by dice roll, so that should be penalised as well.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ih8regin on February 27, 2012, 22:47
hmm, I wonder what to do with accuracy here. It can be up to autohit player (less Dodgemaster, as it does not involve dice) and normal to-hit vs monsters, or both autohit player and autohit monsters. Enemy damage is not reduced, as it's them who throw damage rolls, not the player, that's the main point of the challenge.

new chainsword 8d2? 0.9.9.5 chainsword is 4d6, and yes, seeing that bulk modes on melee give +1 die to roll (that is, +1 damage in terms of this challenge), and power mods give literally nothing except on shotguns and BFGs, as they add to higher number, it looks like melee will be surely better than anything else. But you can keep pistols to blast barrels, and go rocketjumping like there's no tomorrow.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Robsoie on March 03, 2012, 10:59
Would it be a good idea to enable the "I dont want to die" difficulty in the challenge modes ?
But only to be considered as a training kind of thing, meaning that a victory at such difficulty level would not count at all in giving any kind of medals/unlocks/whatever else, only starting at the correct level of difficuty would have a victory really count.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on March 03, 2012, 11:43
Would it be a good idea to enable the "I dont want to die" difficulty in the challenge modes ?
But only to be considered as a training kind of thing, meaning that a victory at such difficulty level would not count at all in giving any kind of medals/unlocks/whatever else, only starting at the correct level of difficuty would have a victory really count.
No for several reasons:
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Matt_S on March 03, 2012, 12:51
Do you object to the idea of allowing ITYTD on challenges, or just to the idea of treating it like a training mode without any rewards?

I think using ITYTD for the bronze medals of the challenges is a good idea.  Getting rewarded for beating it on a lower difficulty seems better than getting rewarded for dying after a certain point.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on March 03, 2012, 12:57
Do you object to the idea of allowing ITYTD on challenges, or just to the idea of treating it like a training mode without any rewards?
I was answering the main question of ITYTD on challenges, and refuting why the reason of using it like a training mode is sound.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Robsoie on March 03, 2012, 17:04
Not advocating more about the idea, as it's not that important, as i can understand the reasonning on your first 2 first points as indeed if the challenge are designed with a specifc set of monsters, item and special levels availabilty in mind TYTD would be inappropriate considering it block some special levels and do not spawn the same kind of monster at specific depth.

The 3rd is just a matter of how a player would take the game, playing without achievements given is indeed strange for some people, but i don't see the relevance of your 4th argument in that matter.
Quote
At the risk of alienating some of the newer players, this is a rogue-like, so part of the learning process is to go through the live-fire situations and figuring out how best to do it.  It develops better habits than the "watered down" versions that impose additional constraints that are absent.

Because by this logic, "Hey not too rought", "Hurt me plenty", "Ultraviolence" are watered down in comparison to "Nightmare" in term of difficulty.

And more importantly, there's a very important gameplay difference between Nightmare and every other levels that impact the way the player must act : the enemy is able to respawn, leading a player using the tactics he learned from every other difficulties to get into lot of YASD from playing like this, leading by the same logic as those less than "Nightmare" difficulties developping bad habits.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Matt_S on March 03, 2012, 21:10
If you all will forgive me, I'd like to give a short story about my initial experiences with DoomRL.

I don't remember a lot of the details, but when I first started playing, I was awful.  On HNTR I couldn't get more than a couple of levels in.  ITYTD was the only mode where I could be remotely competent.  Looking back, it seems I got my first win (on ITYTD) on May 1, 2010.  I guess I took a large break from playing, because in March 2011 I posted a YASD also on ITYTD difficulty with only a few more deaths on my profile.  What's important to realize at this point is that I had AoMr and AoB already unlocked, but I still struggled to win on ITYTD.  I had meddled with AoMr a bit even before I had any victories, but without being able to win not much came out of it.

In September 2011 I joined here and started working for my first HNTR win, which I achieved in October.  At this point I also had AoSh unlocked for a while I think, and after you, thelaptop, suggested trying for a challenge win, I went on to win AoSh.  Then I did a melee run on ITYTD, which was training for my future AoB attempts, and it was also the point when I discovered the power of melee firsthand.  What followed was wins in AoH and AoMr and AoB, and this was pretty much the point where I discovered that challenge modes were kind of fun, and shortly afterwards I worked to get all the bronze medals.

It's not a very interesting story, but the important points relate to challenge modes and the ITYTD difficulty.  ITYTD was the only reason I kept playing DoomRL, so I have a lot of love for the difficulty despite not playing on it anymore.  And before I was even good enough to get HNTR wins, I had some challenges unlocked that I might have played more back then if they were available on ITYTD.  To drive the point home: the reward for dying past level 10 on ITYTD is challenge modes that are only available on HNTR and above.

All your points against ITYTD except the total lack of rewards apply just as well for the standard game.  But I didn't play on ITYTD for the rewards, I just played to get a win.  I wouldn't be posting here today if ITYTD didn't give me a good reason to keep playing DoomRL.  It was a huge achievement for me just to win, and it was an even bigger achievement when I finally won on HNTR.  That period of time was a relatively large fraction of my history; because challenges weren't available on ITYTD, I very, very rarely played any challenges before then.

This post wasn't as short as I expected it to be.  I believe new players need ITYTD as a stepping stone, and I don't think we should deny them the ability to use it as a stepping stone for challenges.  If they didn't have ITYTD in the standard game they would probably give up; I know I would have.  (I'm repeating myself a lot now, but I think it's a very important point, so I'll repeat it again.  Without that "watered down difficulty" I wouldn't be a DoomRL player and supporter today.)  For the same reason, I avoided challenges when I was a new player because of their difficulty restriction and I imagine I wasn't the only one.  DoomRL is still the only roguelike I've ever recorded a win in, and now I've even won on HMP.  I do believe that winning on ITYTD serves as better training that dying over and over on HNTR, and it's also a lot more motivating.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: HexaDoken on March 04, 2012, 08:56
A few rather random ideas.

Angel of Explosives
You can use only your fists and explosive weapons. By "explosive" I do not mean all damage with radius attack, but rather all weapons that can damage YOU. So, BFG9000 is unusable on this challenge, as it can't damage you. To help, your fists do double damage, you start with a rocket launcher, whatever ammo is spawned are rockets, and weapons are more likely to be explosive(they are NOT ALWAYS explosive, tho). Also, monsters than normally shrug off explosives don't do so.

Angel of Massacre
Your weapons do double damage. Monsters spawn rate doubled. Health of bosses(arena master, shambler, bruiser brother, etc.) is doubled. Special levels hold twice as much non boss monsters, too.

Angel of Uniques(could make use of better title)
All unique/exotic items that you discovered in normal games are ten times as likely to spawn. Assembles you know are also likely to just lie on the floor. All unique/exotic items you haven't discovered in normal games are still spawnable, but with normal chance. Tougher monsters are more likely to spawn, random levels can hold monsters that are impossible to be located there otherwise(for example, HK's on Phobos, Mancubi on Deimos, goddamn shamblers on later levels of Hell)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Klear on March 04, 2012, 09:21
Angel of Marksmanship... oh, wait... we already have one of those, right?

In that case, Angel of Sharpshooting

Every time you shoot and your shot doesn't damage any enemies, you actually shot yourself in the foot, taking whatever damage your weapon deals. Better invest heavily in eagle eye and forget about radio shooting.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZicherCZ on March 04, 2012, 13:58
Angel of Marksmanship... oh, wait... we already have one of those, right?

In that case, Angel of Sharpshooting

Every time you shoot and your shot doesn't damage any enemies, you actually shot yourself in the foot, taking whatever damage your weapon deals. Better invest heavily in eagle eye and forget about radio shooting.

Shotgun + Int2 challenge?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Klear on March 04, 2012, 14:17
I was actually thinking about banning shotguns since that's hardly a weapon for a sharpshooter, but forgot to write it in my post. Still, I suppose melee builds would be mostly unaffected.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZicherCZ on March 04, 2012, 14:23
I was actually thinking about banning shotguns since that's hardly a weapon for a sharpshooter, but forgot to write it in my post. Still, I suppose melee builds would be mostly unaffected.
Well, under that reasoning you may as well ban many other weapons and you end up with pistols only. And, personally, for me a "sharpshooter" is associated more with rifles, which are non-existant in DoomRL.
Anyway, your description gave me a brief hilarious mental image of hitting yourself in your foot with a Butcher's Cleaver ;).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: bardysya on March 04, 2012, 19:40
Angel of Massacre
Your weapons do double damage. Monsters spawn rate doubled. Health of bosses(arena master, shambler, bruiser brother, etc.) is doubled. Special levels hold twice as much non boss monsters, too.
That sound great, specially on UV! More monsters - more exp - more fun! But I think it needs more balance. Maybe, decrease exp gain?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: HexaDoken on March 05, 2012, 00:27
That sound great, specially on UV! More monsters - more exp - more fun! But I think it needs more balance. Maybe, decrease exp gain?
Whatever. Perhaps, dividing the exp gain by 1.5 will do.
Primary reason why I suggested that is because I want to be ever able to launch a bfg shot in random direction and get a ludicrous kill. Everything else doesn't really matter.
The mortuary will be... interesting.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: spacedust on March 25, 2012, 07:31
Whatever. Perhaps, dividing the exp gain by 1.5 will do.
Primary reason why I suggested that is because I want to be ever able to launch a bfg shot in random direction and get a ludicrous kill. Everything else doesn't really matter.
The mortuary will be... interesting.

Actually, I really like the idea. Sometimes you really just want to wipe out hordes of monsters without thinking too hard. Some of my most satisfying encounters are when I spawn really near a vile-former pack and wipe out 90% of it in one blast.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Pricklyman on March 25, 2012, 15:01
Only problem I see is that your stats would be padded so badly... (With so many kills of course)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Creepy on March 26, 2012, 20:03
More monsters means more danger from hordes falling on your head, so the extra exp from having to cut through them all would be appropriate enough. Though with double-damage shotguns and rockets, I'm not sure the riot weapons would actually have much more difficulty. Even if there's a whole wave of the bastards charging your position, you fire a shotgun and watch everyone go flying backwards.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: spacedust on March 27, 2012, 07:40
Maybe to compensate, the monsters do double damage too? That would be quite a hoot. It'll be a little like AoMC, but with twice the crowd.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Matt_S on March 27, 2012, 09:55
Hehe, this belongs more in the horrible ideas thread, but let's take things to the extreme: Angel of Ultimate Carnage, where everything dies in one hit (shotgun scouting to the extreme!).  Also, Angel of Fragility, where Doomguy dies in one hit.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: spacedust on March 27, 2012, 10:34
Hehe, this belongs more in the horrible ideas thread, but let's take things to the extreme: Angel of Ultimate Carnage, where everything dies in one hit (shotgun scouting to the extreme!).  Also, Angel of Fragility, where Doomguy dies in one hit.

Rage-quit a la extreme! Though I believe plenty of the N! regulars can handle such a challenge...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ih8regin on March 27, 2012, 23:23
everything dies in one hit? what's the point? Int2+shotguns = pwnage. The main trouble will be to get to the shotgun unscathed. Also, it will nullify most objects from being useful. Armor? It does not help you not die from that very first hit. Get Tac/A or phaseshift/A and run as hell, only running saves there. Boots? The same. Weapons that don't autohit? Well, blowing up walls require some of them indeed, but a shotgun/T is your ultimate friend when facing monsters. Medpaks? Har har har, their only use will be giftdropping, but why the hell giftdropping, if you can shoot into the darkness and lay waste to everything hiding in there? Envirosuit? Yes - maybe even more, as you cannot afford dipping your feet into lava/acid anymore. Mod packs? Well, they will have less use, since why assembling fireshields/stuff when anyway you take that one damage that kills you if you are hit. The most you will need 6 A packs and up to 1 N pack, plus 2 T packs and 1 P pack (with optional 3 T packs for micro launcher/T). Everything else is plain useless/counterproductive.

Angel of Fragility alone? Well, here things start to get ugly. Someone can already do a "standard N! damageless run", so he's already a master at this challenge, while most of DoomRL players will ragequit indeed.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Potman on April 03, 2012, 01:43
Angel of Destiny:
"Oh, you think you're so tough, eh? You think you can defeat the hordes of hell because you stumble upon something powerful on the first level? Well, tough guy, let's see how well you manage when fate itself is against you!"

Basically, all special items and uniques become much more rare. Vaults are significantly less likely to contain anything significantly out of depth, usable items spawn far from the player and near any enemies that might want to use them, deadly levers are more common and meditech/armor depots less so, and, perhaps the most insidiously, the game recognizes the way the player develops his character and adjusts itself accordingly. Put all those points in SoaG and Dualgunner? Nice, now watch me NEVER give you a single more powerful pistol and instead hand over all these shotguns and chainguns!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZicherCZ on April 03, 2012, 01:50
Angel of Destiny:
"Oh, you think you're so tough, eh? You think you can defeat the hordes of hell because you stumble upon something powerful on the first level? Well, tough guy, let's see how well you manage when fate itself is against you!"
Sounds more like Angel of Frustration - but I like it anyway :).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ih8regin on April 03, 2012, 01:55
Angel of Destiny: Why not taking it to extreme and say do like this:

NOTHING is generated as unique or exotic (except the BFG, while BFG IS exotic, it's also a normal Doom weapon, so why not letting it remain). Warehouse rooms are absent, and instead replaced with ordinary rooms. Vaults have +0 dlvl modifier. Predefined exotic/unique items downgraded to normal (missile launcher to rocket launcher, nuke BFG to BFG, nuke plasma rifle to plasma rifle). Up to degrading LS/AS/DS to combat knife, and AA to red armor. So, no exotic pistols, no exotic ANYTHING. Get used to it.

But, this is how any challenge run is normally played, probably with an exception of AoB, since it relates to chainsaw greatly. But there will (might?) be NO CHAINSAW! Ha-ha-ha, said Arena Master.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Pricklyman on April 03, 2012, 03:07
Going by your logic however - the chainsaw should be left in since it is a "normal Doom weapon"...

Just sayin you know...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Ander Hammer on April 03, 2012, 03:18
Put all those points in SoaG and Dualgunner? Nice, now watch me NEVER give you a single more powerful pistol and instead hand over all these shotguns and chainguns!

Feature exists: all weapon-restricted challenge modes.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Klear on April 03, 2012, 03:21
Feature exists: all weapon-restricted challenge modes.

...and the no chainsaw case is what happens if you go for the strongman badges.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: pacmanus on April 08, 2012, 12:29
Angel of Tactics

Faster on the quarter, but there is no right to use the armor.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: e^cha on April 19, 2012, 15:17
Angel of More Game

You start normal game on "hey, not too rough". After completing it, you start normal game on "ultra-violence" (with all traits and items you get in HNTR)

[Sorry, if my english is bad.]
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZicherCZ on April 20, 2012, 09:44
Angel of Tactics

Faster on the quarter, but there is no right to use the armor.
No protection, no resists except zerking ... Sounds quite hard.
I like it :).

PS: Tactician Diamond: Win Angel of Tactics without HR/Fin (no further speed bonuses for you).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Matt_S on April 20, 2012, 09:45
Angel of Roulette
A different challenge restriction is applied to each level.  Excludes Ao100, AoCn, and AoOC effects because those are a different sort of beast.  Maybe exclude AoPc too so that we can still get 100% kills.  The challenge per level could be random, or maybe it could be predetermined so that you get hard challenges at boss levels or special levels.  There would be a lot of kinks with new challenge effects being applied, for example Light Travel and Impatience kicking in when a bunch of stuff is already in your inventory.

And more along the lines of horrible idea...
Angel of Insanity
Light Travel, Impatience, Purity, Masochism, and Humanity effects all at the same time.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Klear on April 20, 2012, 09:52
And more along the lines of horrible idea...
Angel of Insanity
Light Travel, Impatience, Purity, Masochism, and Humanity effects all at the same time.

AKA 2dev's standard playthrough.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Kahvi on April 27, 2012, 21:38
Dunno if this was suggested yet. (thread tl:dr past page 3 until 39)
Angel of Infinity : Last as long as you can, counts as complete after 200 levels perhaps?

Logan's Run Difficulty: as per Angel of Infinity, but JC starts hunting you down after you turn char-level 21
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Thexare on May 05, 2012, 21:40
Angel of Roulette
There would be a lot of kinks with new challenge effects being applied, for example Light Travel and Impatience kicking in when a bunch of stuff is already in your inventory.

Light Travel: Inventory locked except for a random five slots.
Impatience: Can't use items from inventory.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: 2DeviationsOut on May 11, 2012, 06:40
Angel of Primality

You may not equip items. You have two inventory slots. (one per hand)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ih8regin on May 11, 2012, 07:12
^ more like "Angel of Nudity" (or worse, if ammochains are locked out of inventory). Might be interesting, tho, as antigravs are off and at least half of WK is useless (along with onyx pack, for example), and those armors could be picked up by nasty hell barons :)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: 2DeviationsOut on May 14, 2012, 09:49
Well, all of WK would be useless, since you can't use weapons. I meant "can't equip items" as "can't equip/wield anything"
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ih8regin on May 16, 2012, 07:50
(re-read last challenge request)
Ouch. Two inventory slots and only fists as weapons? That should require some serious Pacifism+AoLT approach, and it should also have some boosts, like being able to use those items instantly/quasi-instantly, since they are already right in your hands, and probably a speed boost too. I wonder if one would decide to play a N! with these restrictions (manually imposed), will he survive past Phobos Base Entry?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: AlterAsc on May 16, 2012, 08:07
It's possible(and it was done more than once) to do standard fist-only N! game(Vampyre is the key), so most likely this is possible too.Luck is required.
Though i'd say it's quite boring imo.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: mihey1993 on May 25, 2012, 06:35
Dont know - maybe it should be posted in horrible ideas tread, or have already suggested by anybody, but..

Angel of Mastery :

You pick 1 Master trait at the start(all Master-traits are unlocked, ALL other traits are locked) and don't levelup at all. You also won't gain any benefits from requirement traits.
For example - you choose Vampyre at start and would get 3HP(or how much - i don't remember) per kill, but won't have +6 melee damage, badass and berserker.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: AlterAsc on May 25, 2012, 07:02
That leaves choice of MAD,MSv,MCe,MSH,MRm, MMB, (non-working) MFa and MSc.Other masters are useless.
This challenge basically means using only shotguns and explosives as you can't take Bru,SoB,SoG.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: GrAVit on July 13, 2012, 11:18
So in Angel of Carnage, can you mod your chaingun into assemblies like gattling gun, assault rifle?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: emulord on July 16, 2012, 11:06
Angel of Fire (modified from angel of explosives earlier)

Fists / explosives only.
Start with Rocket launcher + 1 stack of rockets, red armor.
Firestormed weapons okay, BFG okay.

Otherwise, regular game. Have fun!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: snowstorm on July 28, 2012, 05:09
Angel of the Hydra: From every corpse you leave behind, two enemies revive! (Take that people who find N! and the Mortuary not challenging enough).

Angel of the Vanquished: go through regular levels normally, BUT no bosses. Instead you have to face an arena filled with every enemy you killed for that episode. "The bigger the bloodbath-the BIGGER the bloodbath!".

Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Reef Blastbody on August 08, 2012, 18:06
Don't know if it was mentioned already, but my body is not prepared to read 40 pages of prior comments... I apologize if these are more "Mods" and not exactly "Challenges" :

A challenge mode where you have to fight another Doomguy. Basically you on one side of the map, other Doomguy on the other side, monsters in the middle that are prone to attack either side, and equipment and items all over the place.

Mad scramble to kill each other.


Alternatively, you are (randomly) one of the monsters, and you and a bunch of other monsters have to defeat an AI Doomguy who is loaded to the teeth with gear and weapons. Possibly 'zerking.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: MaiZure on December 14, 2012, 20:39
Angel of the Horde

Enemy hitpoints cut by 1/2...but 3x as many foes are generated!

Badge series = Slaughterhouse Bronze, Silver...
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZicherCZ on December 16, 2012, 07:30
Angel of the Horde

Enemy hitpoints cut by 1/2...but 3x as many foes are generated!

Badge series = Slaughterhouse Bronze, Silver...
Wow. UV and N! would certainly get cluttered as hell - but it certainly would be fun.
Shotguns would likely become the weapon of choice.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Klear on December 16, 2012, 08:16
Angel of the Horde

Enemy hitpoints cut by 1/2...but 3x as many foes are generated!

Badge series = Slaughterhouse Bronze, Silver...

Archangel of the Horde...  3x as many foes are generated, same hitpoints as normal.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on December 16, 2012, 08:21
Archangel of the Horde...  3x as many foes are generated, same hitpoints as normal.
Only allowed weapons are pistols.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Equality on December 16, 2012, 09:07
Angel of Stupidity - you gain half of experience from monsters and level 7 is maximum allowed. But you start with additional +10 hp and have a +10 dodge chance.

ps: sorry, always exist at start of topic the same name. Let it be not "Stupidity" but "Slowpoke". And may be cap at level 6, not 7 - must be quite enough for challenge.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Nick on February 26, 2013, 00:51
Angel of the Odd ((C) Edgar Allan Poe). Not very accessible, this challenge is only open for players who've already seen almost everything in their lives so it's somewhere in the bottom of the list. The probability of encountering rare item is very high, you'll probably see one per two levels. As well as inadequately high class monsters, who, all of sudden, appear on common levels. Even up to Long Lost Bruiser Brother, Backup Cyberdemon and Spider Prince.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Nick on February 26, 2013, 10:47
About Anger of Light Travel... I suggest to allow player use items directly from the map, with proportional time loss, of course. One just have to repeat the "drop something, take item, use item, take dropped thing again" procedure too often.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZicherCZ on February 26, 2013, 11:53
About Anger of Light Travel... I suggest to allow player use items directly from the map, with proportional time loss, of course. One just have to repeat the "drop something, take item, use item, take dropped thing again" procedure too often.
Try "u"sing an item from the ground. If it does not work in 0996, you'll have to wait for 0997, where it works ;).

Oh, by the way ...

About Anger of Light Travel...

Niiiiiice typo! And so truthful for other challenges as well :).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Nick on February 26, 2013, 13:50
Niiiiiice typo!
:-D So smooth and suitable so I didn't noticed before you point on it :-D
Try "u"sing
Just wait a bit, update and use "u". Cool. Really cool, thanks.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZicherCZ on February 26, 2013, 14:20
Just wait a bit, update and use "u". Cool. Really cool, thanks.
Well, you pointed out an interface problem you would like to have improved, and then you complain about the problem already being improved?
Well, either you have to wait, or get the Supporter rank and the beta-testing access that comes along with it.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Nick on February 26, 2013, 14:36
I? COMPLAIN? Where?
Everything is OK, the solution is already on the way.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZicherCZ on February 26, 2013, 15:59
I? COMPLAIN? Where?
Everything is OK, the solution is already on the way.
EDIT: Oh - where did my text go?
I meant to say, no flame intended by me, you just sounded that way.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: tylor on February 27, 2013, 17:16
Kinda inspired by ToME4.

Angel of 90.
Like Angel of 100, but much harder, so even with a good play you are very likely to die occasionally. But you have to survive at least 90 levels of 100.
You get one life at start and then each 10 levels (for a total of 10). If you die, you lose a life and go to the next level as you were at he start of current.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: raekuul on February 28, 2013, 04:49
So basically Ao100 with restarts.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Equality on April 11, 2013, 07:25
Quote
Angel of Infinity : Last as long as you can
Actually, I just post that ^_^ here (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6332.0;attach=1423)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: felttippen on May 23, 2013, 07:17
Archangel of Impatience

Like AoI but every 1,5 seconds that pass without move or attack input the game behaves as if you would have pressed the . key
So you could get killed while looking at your inventory , character screen or when picking traits for leveling up.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Eyro on September 07, 2013, 19:06
I have one! However it'd be overpowered on Marine because of Ammochain.

Angel of Fission/Fusion: Can only wield nuclear powered weapons.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: White Rider on September 07, 2013, 19:17
I have one! However it'd be overpowered on Marine because of Ammochain.

Angel of Fission/Fusion: Can only wield nuclear powered weapons.

The only thing I'd change about that is make it so that EVERYONE deals BFG and/or plasma damage in addition to the damage they do normally.
See how you like demons rushing at you with BFG-infused fangs.

/me imagines Mancubi firing their 3-rocket array in addition to the rockets making a small BFG splash radius upon explosion
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Eyro on September 07, 2013, 19:20
I'd face Cyberdemons in every level if I could start games with a Nuclear Plasma Rifle. I love that thing. ._.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: White Rider on September 07, 2013, 19:55
I'd face Cyberdemons in every level if I could start games with a Nuclear Plasma Rifle. I love that thing. ._.

That sounds like you have a reckless disregard for the well-being of your Doomguys.
You should try Ao100.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Eyro on September 08, 2013, 11:23
I will, gotta unlock it. Will probably take me a while.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Juice on September 11, 2013, 03:25
Angel of Greed - all monster can pickup and use items. Try killing those viles now, when they equip armors and use medpacs.

Archangel of Greed - all monsters can pickup and use items as well as powerups. Invulnerable mancubus? Or how about lost soul using a nuke? :-)
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ZicherCZ on September 11, 2013, 03:56
Angel of Greed - all monster can pickup and use items. Try killing those viles now, when they equip armors and use medpacs.

Archangel of Greed - all monsters can pickup and use items as well as powerups. Invulnerable mancubus? Or how about lost soul using a nuke? :-)
That ... actually sounds fun :).

Add in formers picking up better weapons of their type (sergeants would pick up and use a super shotgun, but not a minigun, for example) for some more fun :).
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Nick on November 29, 2014, 15:52
I don't remember if it already was mentioned, but... Angel of Haste (1 second of real time per turn) mix with possible multi-player mode perfectly.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ujk on April 01, 2015, 20:36
Angel of Nudity - You cannot wear armor or boots, but get +3*lvl% resistances.

Angel of Hoarding - Start with a backpack, can't drop anything other than ammo (because expending it would be boring).

Angel of Adrenaline - There's a speed modifier for every action that depends linearly on your health. You get -25% at 0, +0% at 50, +25% at 100, +50% at 150, +75% at 200. So you move fast only at low health, and supercharging is dangerous.

Angel of Delayed Gratification - You only get traits every 3rd level, but you get to choose 4 traits at a time.

Angel of Blinking - Every action has a 2% or 3% chance of teleporting you somewhere nearby, like a shambler.

Angel of Blindness - Your field of vision is of radius 2, but enemies outside your vision are marked by Xs at a large range. The second rank of intuition lets you see what kind of monsters are close to you, as from a Tracking Map.

Archangel of Blindness - Your field of vision has radius 1, but you always have a Computer Map effect. You can already sense monsters a couple tiles beyond your vision, which can be extended by the second rank of intuition.

Angel of Conflict - Every monster is set to actively hunt the player.

Angel of Gravity - Knockback gets a +100% boost for doomguy and enemies.

Angel of Stasis - Movement speed is doubled for doomguy and enemies, knockback is halved.

Angel of Squishiness - Enemies always get gibbed upon dying, which means no resurrection but no drops either. N! fobidden in addition to ITYTD.

Angel of Plasticine - Walls and barrels are fragile and unarmored on all levels.

Angel of Violation - monsters receive a -100% melee resistance while the player gets a -200% melee resistance. You can guess the archangel version.

Angel of Mutation - You get experience twice as fast, but traits are randomly distributed instead of chosen.

Archangel of Mutation - You still get experience twice as fast. Every time you level-up, one trait is randomly taken away, and two traits are randomly distributed.

Angel of Alien - You cannot wear/wield equipment You have a +50% speed bonus but cannot run. You leave puddles of acid the way enemies leave blood-marks. If you press "." 5 times in a row, you become invisible to enemies. And you destroy doors instead of opening them. And you have +100% acid resistance. And while you can't use medkits, you innately have 1 rank of the vampyre trait.

Angel of Bieber - You cannot wield/fire any weapons, but deal 1d1 damage to all visible enemies every turn.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Equality on April 01, 2015, 23:25
Angel of Nudity - nice!

Angel of Curse - you can't pickup armor and weapon related items other way than Use it from ground. You can't unequip them until they are completely destroed. You start with empty hands, blue armor in inventory, pistol + 10mm ammo in inventory, and 2 small medpacks. If you equip pistol you never unequip them!
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: papilio on April 02, 2015, 00:06
Angel of Nudity - You cannot wear armor or boots, but get +3*lvl% resistances.

Great idea, but +3*lv% res is overpowered. +1~1.5*lv% is enough w/ TaN.
(If you ask me to name it, I'll rename it as "Angel of Stoneskin" :P)


Angel of Blinking - Every action has a 2% or 3% chance of teleporting you somewhere nearby, like a shambler.

interesting, sound extremely dangerous.


Angel of Blindness - Your field of vision is of radius 2, but enemies outside your vision are marked by Xs at a large range. The second rank of intuition lets you see what kind of monsters are close to you, as from a Tracking Map.
Archangel of Blindness - Your field of vision has radius 1, but you always have a Computer Map effect. You can already sense monsters a couple tiles beyond your vision, which can be extended by the second rank of intuition.

We already have AoD..


Angel of Conflict - Every monster is set to actively hunt the player.

Great. How about this: Archangel of Conflict : Every monster is set to teleport near you (same effect as "You feel being targeted!")



Angel of Stasis - Movement speed is doubled for doomguy and enemies, knockback is halved.

How about just +20% speed boost for every monster? as a compensation, you get +2 passive protection.



Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: ujk on April 02, 2015, 00:25
Angel of Stasis - Movement speed TIME is doubled for doomguy and enemies, knockback is halved.

How about just +20% speed boost for every monster? as a compensation, you get +2 passive protection.

Hmm? I tried to think of a high-gravity environment, where movement is slow and things tend to fall quickly. So everything gets a -50% speed modifier, which strongly discourages moving when there are ranged attackers around.

Angel of Dakka - every attack is carried out twice at no extra cost of time or ammo. So a double shotgun would make 4 blasts, and an archvile would hit for 40hp.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: singalen on September 21, 2015, 15:11
Angel of laptops: you cannot move diagonally.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: thelaptop on September 21, 2015, 18:51
Angel of laptops: you cannot move diagonally.
What, I can move diagonally!

Maybe Angel of Gridbugs?
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Equality on September 21, 2015, 23:36
Quote
every attack is carried out twice at no extra cost of time or ammo
Instagib Challenge: every hit is fatal except lava/acid/barrels and splash damage from rockets. No armor or protection count. You shoot - they die. They shoot - you die :) Does not matter what weapon - one 10mm bullet quite enough for everybody. Just like anybody have 1 hp, but can pass lava-acid pools and do rocketjumps as usual.
Title: Re: Challenge modes ideas - old and new.
Post by: Tormuse on September 22, 2015, 22:18
That instagib challenge would sure make body-disposal at Nightmare! difficulty easier.  :)

And yeah, as thelaptop says, Angel of Gridbug would be a more appropriate name for that challenge; if anything is going to be called "Angel of Laptop," you'd have to nerf everything.  :)  (Maybe someone should bring back Angel of Patience?)