Chaosforge Forum
DoomRL => Requests For Features => Topic started by: MaiZure on April 04, 2011, 05:17
-
Simple tweak that might appeal to veteran players.
Change the Spider's Lair to just "The Lair" and make three possibilities for the inhabitants
All Arachs (like now)
All Revenants
or All Mancubus
The player shouldn't be able to tell who is living inside before they enter but the mortem will tell you what happened.
(Thanks to Malek for this wonderful idea!)
-
Might be unbalanced for specific characters, though I like the idea...
But mancubi can't evem touch a fireamgel marine.
-
This should be difficulty dependant thou. How would you rank them in terms of easiest diff to hardest? (assume a direct substitution).
-
Definitely build dependant here...but...
I would say:
Arach < Mancubus = Revenant
Arachs will go down pretty fast if you deal with them one at a time at the teleporter
Mancubus will absorb a lot of damage and might be able to fire back AND destroy the protective walls
Revenants are fast enough to certainly fire back after teleporting
-
Maybe this would be a good time to discuss Spider's Lair in general, not just the possibility of changing up the monsters, but also the layout of the level. (For difficulty purposes I'll assume UV enemies.)
Right now we have eighteen Arachnotrons and a bunch of teleporters that lead you around the map. Entering a teleporter takes you directly TO a spider, although it's often dispatched quickly. The rest of the level is sitting on that side of the map, preferably behind cover from the rest of the map, shooting spiders as they teleport in. Even on UV, with a rapid-fire build this is relatively trivial. On just about any other build, the lack of cover and numerous enemies make it very difficult to make progress, especially when you consider there is no health until the very end.
Now, don't get me wrong, but Revenants are ridiculously difficult without cover, and Mancubus can be EASY without cover. Also, Fireangel builds would make these places not only trivial but highly desirable (what with the gratuitous amounts of experience from Rs and Ms). I'm not sure we want to just change up the monsters and call it a day. Might be better to include some actual cover, for instance, and switch up the teleporters to appear it less predictable areas. If we can make the level more interesting, we can work with new enemies, but at the moment Spider's Lair needs an overhaul before we unbalance it to this extent.
-
The mancubus lair could get a little annoying due to their one shot kill trick. It would be up to the player to not go near a wall, but it would make it fairly dicey for the reward.
I've always kind of thought that the level could use a change in the teleporter layout (all random, you might not get to cover straight away) and boss at level end. And maybe a sight level drop of 1-2 squares, kind of the reverse of the cat-eye master trait. It would make the arach's there a lot more frightening (they'll be firing at you before you can see them) and remove the "just tele and pick them off as they warp part", at least at the start. The boss would just be there to add flavour really. Wasn't there a big badass spider in doom 1 or 2? I might be thinking of a mod pack level though.
-
As noted, the mancubus "surprise! you're dead!" one-turn kill doesn't work on fireangels.
(I'm starting to think that manucbi might just be fundamentally misconceived. I'm not convinced they were a good idea in Doom II either.)
-
I've always kind of thought that the level could use a change in the teleporter layout (all random, you might not get to cover straight away) and boss at level end.
I really like the idea of a boss and another mechanic of some sort that pressures the player.
I don't really support changing the monster types since Arachs are the only monster that I find significantly deadly against every build...(except Viles resurrection never getting old, but there's the Mortuary for that particular nightmare).
If we're not going to change the monsters I'd like to see a constant drag on the marine, pulling him towards the center of the map. I think a constant tug of 1 space up/down towards the center and 1 space left/right towards the center per ~3 seconds would put everyone on edge. Preferably the shift would be at the beginning of your turn.
"The shifting webs pull at you!"
You'd slip from behind cover and you'd have to correct your position if you were waiting for spiders to teleport nearby and if you were trying to melee the spiders you might find yourself one space away and eating plasma.
And then when you cleared all the standard Arachs the pulling would stop and the Big Momma Arach boss would show up!
If we're changing the monsters then I'd suggest a Mother of Monsters (Lilith) type boss that spewed random squads of various demons; varying numbers (less monsters for more difficult demons), all the same type. A super pain elemental, maybe the end boss from Quake I (Shub-Niggurath)!
-
DeathDealer, that is some serious business!
-
Thanks!
I liked the idea myself, plus I'm hoping that the pulling technology might allow the creation of my pet Challenge Mode:
http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,1168.msg34268.html#msg34268 (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,1168.msg34268.html#msg34268)
-
I found Shubbie rather disappointing (not as bad as Icon Of Sin, but very few video game end bosses are as bad as Icon of Sin).
-
I found Shubbie rather disappointing (not as bad as Icon Of Sin, but very few video game end bosses are as bad as Icon of Sin).
That's why it's up to DoomRl to rewrite the Book of Ancient Evils.
-
Better. After killing everything that moves in Spider's Lair you get a chance to enter the Lair.
There is the mother of arachnotrons. And she's not very happy you killed her children...