I don't think this is up for discussion though. It's a decision that only Kornel can make -- it's his game after all.
I am less concerned about the politics behind and more concerned about gameplay, which of course OP's request doesn't really affect. In other words, I personally don't care much if the name is in or out, but to formally take it out will be up to Kornel's call, since it is a political thing and he probably needs to weigh in more on that than I.
Of course one of the ramifications from this is that it sets a precedent where we start lopping stuff off of DoomRL (or any ChaosForge game for that matter) when things we put in start to offend people (e.g. Carmack did something and many people don't like it -- does it mean we have to remove him as The Final Boss?; or the whole Hellish imagery present with DoomRL -- must we change them to something else?). I am not sure if that's a healthy outcome to have.
I'll admit that I only briefly skimmed over the article, but at what I got from the glance it looks to me as Internet Drama 101. Maybe there is something to that, maybe there isn't, but I feel that trying to determine if there is substance enough to claims in the post, would require more effort that a sane man should put towards shit like that.
That's my $0.02 on the subject, please excuse if it's difficult to read - tends to happen when I start writing a longer post.
All the blood in your alcohol system probably doesn't help, either.To put it in Discworld terms I'm probably at least half a drink below par.
To put it in Discworld terms I'm probably at least half a drink below par.Wait, why are you drinking blood again?
Thing is you claim TB is "toxic". You use the article linked as proof, but... it's one point of view. Throwing the thing into google you can get other, dissenting points like here (http://theralphretort.com/gamasutra-nutcase-david-gallant-lauches-pitiful-attack-on-totalbiscuit-0126015/) for example (just a random one that came up). There are probably more sites that would support your claim, and more that would go against it. The point is that unless you're willing to dig deep down to the root of the goddamn thing - which would mean finding the original posts, videos and what not (which would probably mean also learning about the whole GamerGate SNAFU that thankfully blown over the parts of internet I frequent), the only way to decide on whom you trust is to flip a fucking coin.
Also, that aside let me tell you a small story, a comparison of sorts that came to my mind when mulling over the situation during the day. Here in Poland is a man called Jurek Owsiak. That man is known for one thing: every year for 23 years now he throws a big fucking charity event, one which gathers millions, usually despite the influential people in the country shitting on him, which then are spent on buying much needed medical equipment for hospitals through the country. There is also another man, Piotr Ikonowicz. He's a politician, but unlike most of that lot he doesn't keep his head stuck up his own ass and instead of growing fat of off people's taxes he prefers to spend his time running an office dedicated to people in need. So essentially two great chaps, right?
Well this year somewhere during or after the event he runs Owsiak spoke some rather stupid stuff on what should be done with how polish medicine functions. In reaction to that Iknowicz, in a column he runs in a newspaper I read, started to throw mud at Owsiak, all while beating his chest like a primate over how what he does for people is better.
So what should I do then? One could say both of these gentelmen went "toxic" so should I scoff and disavov them? Refuse to support Owsiak's charity event, ignore Iknowicz even though he's one of few politicians that seem to care about people?
I say no. And you know why? Because, at the end of the day both of these men are just human. And that means that they're prone to having faults, and no matter what they do they might have some stupid opinions too. But at the end of the day, what they do is worth more good than their occassional fuck-up does evil.
"But Malek", I hear you say, "surely you can't compare making video game reviews to helping hospitals and people in general". Well true, what TB does is nowhere near that. But even so he does provide a valuable service: in this day where developers forgot what a demo is, where so called game journalism seems largely riding the hype train, TB is a surprisingly solid source of information on new releases. Each one he reviews is given a fair amount of time, with as much relevant information provided as his first-impressions format allows. He isn't afraid to rip a bad product or company a new one. And he tends to bring up good indie titles a lot, and they need all the press they can get, to not be drowned out by AAA companies with their megabucks advertising. And that, in my opinion has value. That is good. We gamers need stuff like that to make educated decisions on what to buy or not to buy. And in my opinion that's enough to overlook the occassional fuck up, assuming what the originally linked blog says is true. Because John Bain, as influential he might be, is still human and thus allowed to make errors, including errors of judgment.
And frankly fuck it, when I go to view one of his vids I'm interested in the title he's reviewing, not in what his opinions on subject X is. On anything else I can make my mind up on my own.
You do realize that TotalBiscuit being pro-GG automatically means that he will be shitted on by the contra-GG side, right?
And that this article is doing exactly that.
I would also very much like to see where he profits off sexual harassment, that certainly sounds quite interesting.
Eww, it smells like feminazism in here.
Eww, it smells like feminazism in here.
Parasait, I don't know what your experience with feminism is that you would demean it by calling it "feminazism," but the feminist movement is still a much-needed force in society. There's a lot of misinformation about feminism out there, but at its core, feminism is about getting men and women equal treatment by society. Personally, I think that's a good thing.I don't think ParaSait is aiming to demean the feminist movement as a whole, I think by 'feminazism' he means only certain parts of said movement that he believes go "over the top" in their pursuit of "social justice". Not that I intend to speak for ParaSait, just what I gleaned from his post.
I don't think ParaSait is aiming to demean the feminist movement as a whole, I think by 'feminazism' he means only certain parts of said movement that he believes go "over the top" in their pursuit of "social justice". Not that I intend to speak for ParaSait, just what I gleaned from his post.
I'd even wait for 0.9.9.8 to come out.
at the end of the day both of these men are just human. And that means that they're prone to having faults, and no matter what they do they might have some stupid opinions too. But at the end of the day, what they do is worth more good than their occassional fuck-up does evil.i think that sums the issue up quite well. I'd only add that I've always been the voice of temperance, and while I find the whole gamergate movement abhorrent, there exists within it a significant proportion of level-headed, logical, smart guys, that need only be educated on how treating people fairly is not treating them the same. Removing the most socially aware of them from your community, even trying to re-write history to exclude them, is only going to do damage to gaming journalism, cause further divides between the two sides of the debate, and justify the extreme views that circulate on the other side of the fence.
It is a BAD thing try to change history. If some man make a gift or do something (good?) that memorized him any way IMHO we can't delete him from history even if hi later become a terrorist and kill dosens of citizens. No. Claim him any way but not change in the past. we are not in Orwell's "1984".
What does this even mean???It means Equality doesn't think we should be performing history revisionism, that all merits to be considered in the context of the time that the merit was obtained, and not have post facto actions denying the merit provided due to later developments outside of the historical context.
It means Equality doesn't think we should be performing history revisionism, that all merits to be considered in the context of the time that the merit was obtained, and not have post facto actions denying the merit provided due to later developments outside of the historical context.His nickname makes this statement quite funny :P
Equality, correct me if I'm wrong.
It means Equality doesn't think we should be performing history revisionism, that all merits to be considered in the context of the time that the merit was obtained, and not have post facto actions denying the merit provided due to later developments outside of the historical context.
I'd just like to weigh in by saying... I don't give a single solitary fuck.
...
Other then that, though... I don't see how it has anything to do with anything, and the whole discussion seems like an exercise in futility - and yet, here I am, participating in it.
I think the articles I linked DO contain at least some evidence that GamerGate is nothing more than desperate, deluded womanhaters willing to defend cybercriminals & child pornography
traditional games media (which would likely also be dismissed with claims of bias and low standards by GGers)
I've presented facts.
presented facts
factsThe jew was also the root of all evil if we go back to 1940, but do glorious generalizations (I mean god damn, all you need is to throw "nazis" in there and it'll be a complete Best of the Baddest collection) make for good facts?
The only people in GG who cared about anything other than that are the young gamers they hoodwinked to be their foot soldiers to spam Twitter, and almost all of them are gone now.Is it because you're actually one of the poor sods that are the 'foot soldiers' of the other front?
It seems awfully reminiscent of a smear campaign, to be totally honest.The entire narrative against gamergate is basically one huge smear campaign, that's what I've noticed so far.
Just gonna leave this here (http://gamergateharassment.tumblr.com)
The entire narrative against gamergate is basically one huge smear campaign, that's what I've noticed so far.
Trar, instead of posting links to articles that link to evidence, can you just post links to the evidence directly?
A screen-cap of TB being a misogynist would work far better than a URL to an article that describes TB as a misogynist and contains links to forum threads that contain links to more articles etc etc...
Your mistake here isn't the side of the battle you're on, it's trying to sway people's opinions by linking them to people trying to sway their opinions, instead of posting the evidence directly.
do glorious generalizations (I mean god damn, all you need is to throw "nazis" in there and it'll be a complete Best of the Baddest collection) make for good facts?
Honestly, why is this even an issue in the first place?Is it because you're actually one of the poor sods that are the 'foot soldiers' of the other front?
Why must we remove the name of The Big Bad that doesn't like your views?
Why must we care about your fight - and join it - when we are just some neutral corner of the internet?
If you continue to be neutral of or in support of gamergate KNOW you're silently approving of attempted murder by cop
It's pretty obvious TotalBiscuit supports GamerGate. Do you see now?
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It's reasonable enough you want clear evidence. But I thought the articles I've linked already contained some tweets, or links to tweets. It's not like his Twitter output is the only thing being brought up or the only thing that matters either; you can check this (http://simplikation.com/totalbiscuits-ego-modern-gaming-community/) article out for other criticism of TB which pretty much sums up why I want him out of DoomRL. It's not like this stuff is hard to look up individually either.It might well not be, but I'm having trouble, and when you are trying to convince someone, you don't do it by telling them to go and google the topic and please change their mind - if you want to change people's minds, the burden to provide the re-education, particularly displaying your evidence, is on you. You won't win any court cases by saying 'your honour, please google the subject, check his facebook, and look at his mobile phone. You'll probably change your mind. The prosecution rests'.
I hope for your sake you're not simply demanding finer and finer proof to try and discredit or wear me out somehow.
You might have missed it, but I did link a detailed and admittedly stomach-churning article on page 1
Just gonna leave this here (http://gamergateharassment.tumblr.com)I'd find another name for what you stand behind if I were you. Your intentions are probably pretty clean, but GG as a movement carries so much negative baggage, declaring something like this is jumping into a den with a lot of people you probably don't want to affiliate with.
The entire narrative against gamergate is basically one huge smear campaign, that's what I've noticed so far.
DISCLAIMER: I'm mostly neutral but leaning in with gamergate
Can't we all just play some DoomRL?Hmm... Lemme amplify that for you.
Can't we all just play some DoomRL?
If I may ask specifically, gamergate is a hate group against WHAT exactly?
The only reason Simon from yogscast wrote that article (the one you linked to)
And goddammit, 8chan TRIES TO TAKES DOWN ANY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY THAT HAPPENS THERE
EDIT:
To blame 8chan and ALL the people there for any illegal stuff is like saying that all Germans even until today are nazis
Both sides are just talking to hear themselves talk - they have nothing of any import or worth to say to anyone but themselves.