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Discussion / Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« on: April 02, 2012, 15:48 »
I know it is possible without a phase device or maxed speed (every time I've done it I don't use either of those methods, I don't tend to wear tac armor in that fight or anything). Then again I've never been surrounded entirely (often I am surrounded on 7 of 8 sides but there is usually a direction I can move), maybe I'm just lucky? *Shrug* Still that is probably going to be one of the harder parts of an AoMr run, no two ways about it.
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Discussion / Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« on: April 02, 2012, 13:53 »
With Lost Souls running at 220% speed I'm not as big a fan of the whole "strip naked and run" idea. Don't get me wrong I still recommend running out of the room (either back the way you came or forward out the other door) and then dealing with them (perferably with a double shotgun blast to the face if possible) but a bit of armor isn't without merit if your character isn't very fast normally. Even a simple green/blue armor will help with the damage you take (though it might mean a couple more hits on the way out). Red is a bit overkill though as lost souls don't hit that hard (plus it slows you down alot more then green armor does).
I guess to sum up, is 1 protection worth a -5% speed hit when the enemies already move at 220%? It seems like it should be but maybe I'm wrong. Or lets think of it this way. How many more hits are you going to take by moving at 160% move speed (Tac Armor + Tac Boots + Running) vs 145% move speed (No Armor + Tac Boots + Running) vs 140% move speed (Green Armor + Tac Boots + Running). I honestly don't know. Of course having both tac armor and tac boots might be a bit much since that is four agility mods...
I guess to sum up, is 1 protection worth a -5% speed hit when the enemies already move at 220%? It seems like it should be but maybe I'm wrong. Or lets think of it this way. How many more hits are you going to take by moving at 160% move speed (Tac Armor + Tac Boots + Running) vs 145% move speed (No Armor + Tac Boots + Running) vs 140% move speed (Green Armor + Tac Boots + Running). I honestly don't know. Of course having both tac armor and tac boots might be a bit much since that is four agility mods...
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Discussion / Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« on: April 02, 2012, 12:14 »The thing that turned me off of MGK has to do with the armor of enemies later in the game. MGK and MSs have comparable base damage potentials, but MSs does it in fewer shots, which means less is soaked up by armor.
I can't say I understand this. Dual Gunner especially early on (but even toward the end likely) does more damage then Sharpshooter, simply by virtue of SoG damage bonus being applied to both shots. I mean just considering the math a basic pistol is 2d4 (avg 5 max 8) +3 for SOG3 is 16 average with DG vs 11 with MSs. If the enemy has 1 armor it's 14 vs 10, 2 armor is 12 vs 9, 3 armor is 10 vs 8, 4 armor is 8 vs 7, 5 armor is 6 vs 6 (note that even the Cyberdemon doesn't have 5 armor, most enemies even late game only have 2 natural armor). Late game you're able to pick up SoG5 which again benefits DG quite a bit. Of course there are various advantages to MSs, such as using less ammo, better knockback, and such but lacking in damage (late game or not) isn't usually a fault of DG specifically... Might I ask what caused you to not like DG much?
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Discussion / Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« on: April 02, 2012, 01:56 »
I think you're really stretching there about how big a difference that really makes (especially in context of learning corner/radar shooting which is all you really need to beat Hell's Arena with any class). And if we're getting specific like that then Technicians being able to quickly use items can allow them to survive Hell's Arena easily too...
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Discussion / Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« on: April 02, 2012, 01:27 »
Up to Hell's Arena the Gun Kata run isn't any different then a Sharpshooter run (he just gets SoGs, no HR or DG or anything) so you can still learn how to do UV Hell's Area with a MSs build from the run (since up to that point they are exactly the same). Still it's up to you. If you can't or don't want to watch then that's fine.
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Discussion / Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« on: April 02, 2012, 01:14 »yeah, I did pass Arena on HNTR and HMP AoMr (once each), but so far am constantly failing at UV.
Have you watched Game Hunter's videos (there is a sticky on the forum with a link to his youtube page)? Those might help you out. He has both a AoMr UV Gun Kata run and a AoLT HMP Sharpshooter run. If nothing else they'll give you an idea of how the builds work (to an extent). Of course both are slightly outdated (they were made in version 9.9.4) but still the main idea behind how it works stays the same (and both get you past Arena with nothing but a pistol). He has tutorials and such as well (again a bit outdated) so if that interests you by all means check them out. I enjoyed watching them when I was first starting to play the game (heck who am I kidding I still enjoy watching them they are entertaining).
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Discussion / Re: dual vs. single wield pistols? (and a couple random questions)
« on: April 02, 2012, 00:57 »man, how do you get past Arena? (Shotguns? If yes, then what should I do if I'm on AoMr?)
AoMr, at least on lower difficulties, isn't really any different then how you would do it normally. You want to learn to corner shoot (just like you would with a shotgun). By the time you get to Arena you should have SoG 2 or be close to it and by that point it's simply a matter of emptying your clip into them without them hitting you (again same strategy as you use for a shotgun just obviously the shotgun needs reloading every shot).
Kinda like this:
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With SoG 2 you should be able to kill a Caco or Demon before they get to you. If not just hit Tab to start running and circle the pillar.
Of course all this assumes SoG is what you pick up early on (it's what I would recommend). If you felt like you had to get EE early then you're going to have to do alot more running and firing blindly into darkness since you likely won't be killing them as they walk toward you nearly as easily.
As for DG, I figured that since its usefulness peters out in the long run, it wasn't really worth the investment.
Umm what makes you think DG loses usefulness? Unless you're going Sharpshooter (in which case DG isn't allowed anyway) DG is plenty useful...
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Discussion / Re: Ideas to make DoomRL even faster and furious'er
« on: April 01, 2012, 13:19 »The best way to summarize my position is this: if I make a list of reasons why the diamond hunters are awesome players, "they don't accidentally walk into lava sometimes" won't appear. I don't think that's the sort of skill that people work hard for.
Actually yes I do think it would be though likely in the form of "paying attention to their environment and not rushing." I've read a number of posts talking about how the player saved the game and took a break from it to help keep themselves from becoming impatient and making mistakes during runs (which is exactly the kind of thing talked about in this thread, being impatient and making foolish mistakes). And again we're back to differing opinions on what makes a game (which is a far cry from the interface needing to be "fixed" which is something that was said a number of times here).
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Discussion / Re: Ideas to make DoomRL even faster and furious'er
« on: April 01, 2012, 00:48 »
Ummm you wonder why you come off as "hostile" (or at the least unsympathetic) when you say stuff like this?
Not only does the "awe" and "ninja" stuff come off as sarcastic and perhaps mocking but just prior to that you basically say that people who do actually take the time to think about what they are doing and not spam the "r" key are "basement-dwelling CHUD"s with no jobs, responsibilities, and the like. Not everyone who plays the game and handles the situations that are being brought up here lack a real life nor does not spamming the "r" key (or not walking into lava) equal making a study of the game. Simple common sense and a smidge of restraint handle that just fine.
This kind of stuff, plus comments (from other posters) about "Forget Strategy. This is about fun" and "Let the game take care of the safety" are the reason your position comes off as complaining and likely what provoked the "Go back to Call of Duty" response.
I'm an adult, you know? I've got a job, and responsibilities, and the paperwork and everything. I have enough time to play games but not enough time to make a fucking study of them. Which is exactly why I don't play Nethack anymore; games I used to play when I was a basement-dwelling CHUD of the highest order.
You diamond-badge earning Roguelike ninas; I respect and fear your skills. We surface-dwellers may speak glibly, but at night we tell of your exploits in awed whispers. But at the moment, the price of following your steps is too high.
Not only does the "awe" and "ninja" stuff come off as sarcastic and perhaps mocking but just prior to that you basically say that people who do actually take the time to think about what they are doing and not spam the "r" key are "basement-dwelling CHUD"s with no jobs, responsibilities, and the like. Not everyone who plays the game and handles the situations that are being brought up here lack a real life nor does not spamming the "r" key (or not walking into lava) equal making a study of the game. Simple common sense and a smidge of restraint handle that just fine.
This kind of stuff, plus comments (from other posters) about "Forget Strategy. This is about fun" and "Let the game take care of the safety" are the reason your position comes off as complaining and likely what provoked the "Go back to Call of Duty" response.
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Discussion / Re: Ideas to make DoomRL even faster and furious'er
« on: March 31, 2012, 12:39 »Most of the time, these decisions can be made fast. So you play fast. Or, I do. And it works great. Slowly I work on those tactical decisions, (which kill me half the time) but I'm having loads of fun doing so because speedy play is ten times funner than slow play.
And that's the thing, this is just your play style, that doesn't make it the correct one or the one everyone should or does play, nor does it signify what type of game DoomRL is. You call it "fast and furious" but that doesn't make it so. Me personally? I think if you spam "r" without looking at what you're doing you should die. Period, the game should not save you from your own foolishness. If you step in lava because you didn't look first or hit the wrong key, you should die. You made a mistake in doing so and that's your fault. You refuse to accept this and repeat "That wasn't my mistake" or "I wasn't zoning out" but the truth is it was and you were. If you hadn't made the mistake of not paying attention you wouldn't have died. Blaming the game for your personal mistakes (pushing a button too much or being too tired to play correctly) and asking it to hold your hand isn't how I personally think the game should be handled.
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