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Messages - 2birds1stone

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1
General Discussion / Re: run-wait?
« on: May 19, 2021, 18:39 »
it doesn't take the strategy away though, it just makes the strategy significantly more frustrating. being on low-health with a tracked enemy nearby really sucks; you just sit there mashing wait, watching the red dot on the minimap. every single time it looks like it's about to enter LOS it goes "nah lol".

then you're like "okay, maybe it will move far enough away that I can take up a new, closer position", but same dealie, it just keeps wandering around this "always close enough to be a danger, never close enough for you to shoot it from cover" evil goldilocks zone.

alternatively, you gamble on it and die; but that also feels really bad, because if you do die, it was because you were pushed by boredom/frustration into doing something that got you killed.

2
General Discussion / run-wait?
« on: October 10, 2020, 19:26 »
Just to clarify, is that not a thing in this game? I was a massive DoomRL coward, tens-of-thousands of turns waiting for enemies to come to my humble corner of the level, but maybe it'll be good for me to adapt if it's not available.

3
Obviously not representative of the entire population of [relative] newbies, but I'm pretty sure there's more continuing interest in DoomRL (and ChaosForge in general) than forum activity suggests. Small number of us in over here in South Aus are super hyped for Jupiter Hell.

4
Discussion / Re: Angel of Death speed randomized?
« on: October 26, 2016, 07:58 »
I thought this was a balance suggestion based on thread title.

Randomising Angel movespeed on spawn with an upper range slightly faster than HR2 Fin2 lets you kite would make cheese strats much less appealing.

5
Post Mortem / Re: [H|AoLT|YAAM]
« on: October 14, 2016, 07:58 »
Quote
UV requires precise play for SO long
Definitely true -- I've lost multiple UV games to waning concentration

6
Post Mortem / [U|AoPu|73%|YAVP]
« on: October 13, 2016, 03:17 »
Whenever I go into a challenge run like Angel of Purity, I immediately ask myself "what is the strongest build I can possibly play under these restrictions?". For Angel of Masochism, I said "well I'll just heal with Vampyre then"; for Angel of Light Travel, I said "gottagofaster". Angel of Purity resists this approach to a some extent, in that the thing it takes away can't just be compensated for with a build, and it doesn't give you any advantages to play into -- so I instead asked "okay, what's the strongest DoomRL build?". Melee builds were out because not having access to Berserk packs makes them near-unplayable, which in my opinion left either Ammochain Marine or Gunrunner Scout -- Orandulum told me to consider Cateye Scout, but I don't think it compares to the other two, it guzzles ammo like no tomorrow (unlike Ammochain) for a less tangible and versatile DPS increase than Gunrunner. Sharpshooter Technician is really strong too, but it gimps your early game in a way that neither Ammochain nor Gunrunner do (and in fact, the reason I consider Gunrunner to be better than Ammochain is that Gunrunner's early game is almost good enough on its own -- it's really not that far off what I'd be buying for Masterless Scout).

I know a lot of people on the forum (including players better than me) think Gunrunner is bad, I think y'all insane. This game (as I currently understand it -- and admittedly my Nightmare! failings suggest I misunderstand the game to some extent) is all about finding a safe route to either the exit or a defensible camping point, and Gunrunner is both the best escape tool in the game and the best [short-term] DPS increase in the game.

I had a somewhat touch-and-go but mostly uneventful Phobos, spent a lot of time on around 12% health but managed to heal most of that when a level kindly spawned double vaults for me. Missed 100% kills thanks to an early acid river fucking up my kill rate (and EXP gain) by locking me out of ~70% of the level, but I probably wouldn't've got 100% anyway -- ammo's a pain for shotgun runs (which is definitely one big strength Ammochain has over every other non-melee build in the game).

Had Tactical Boots (I still stand by these being totally broken) by Deimos 1 but found myself hovering at ~20% health again -- but no biggie with 4ish large medpacks. Found Phaseshift one Deimos 2, fuck yeah -- I attribute much of my success to these items.

Seemingly twenty (honestly not sure how many, maybe five or eight?) HKs/Barons were way too close to my Deimos 7 spawn, which seemed total bullshit, but thanks to Phaseshift and Dodgemaster (and a timely switch to Blue Armor when I got a little cornered) I managed to survive it. I've always been a strong believer that "vanilla" (non-Angel) DoomRL never deals you unwinnable levels providing you build well and don't overshoot for acheivements when RNG's against you, and while I do *not* believe the same to be true of Angel of Purity, I do think a lot of players (especially newer players) try to YOLO bad spawns when escape routes exist. I also try to be a bit optimistic about bad spawns -- it makes me feel good to remember that every monster that spawns on you is a monster you don't need to kill later in the level.

This mortem seems to have become "2birds soapboxes his DoomRL opinions despite not actually being particularly good at the game and not really being active on the forum", so while I'm being a self-important wanker, I figured I'd talk about the Elephant Gun. I know a few guys here think it's a bad/mediocre weapon, and while I mostly agree, I think it completely breaks Gunrunner Scout. The most common complaint seems to be the reload speed, but if you always step-reload it, that's completely irrelevant. The drop-off is worse than Tactical/Assault/etc., but that's never seemed particularly relevant to me given that most corner shooting is often done at the 2--3 square range. It is worse for radar shooting, but it's still perfectly adequate for the task. Conversely, I'm not 100% sold on the Elephant Gun for Army of the Dead -- MAD does nothing to mitigate the 2 second reload speed, and Marine doesn't have Scout's movespeed; "always step-reload" is still a little on the slow side when you're camping a corner.

Using the rocket launcher, I managed to kill Cybie in a single Gunrun, switching to Elephant Gun for the last bit of the damage to conserve rocket ammo. Took U/C as early exit because of Acid/Lava rivers -- I could've kited Angel of Death, but I *really* didn't feel like it.

Stairdived the rest of the way down, partly because of ammo concerns, but mostly because I'd already missed 100% kills and felt pretty bored of the run at this point (this is why I will likely never finish Angel of 100). Gunrunner is insane for stair-diving, for obvious reasons -- You literally just blast your way to the exit, and the knockback on the Elephant Gun is often enough to keep enemies out of LOS. Spider Mastermind wasn't even a fight, I had four large medpacks and Blue Armor, I wasn't even trying to take cover against her.

Who knows, maybe I'll actually get a non-LT/MC/OC Nightmare! win at some point. I'd like to actually get good (lol, "good", you guys have set way too high a standard that I'll likely never reach) at this game before retiring forever, and I'd definitely like to do that before Jupiter Hell gets released. I think I made a mistake in playing so much Ultra-Violence, I think I acclimatised to the difficulty and picked up some bad habits that aren't serving me so well in Nightmare!, though I couldn't identify what those habits are.

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 AAA, level 9 Hell Baron Colonel Scout,
 defeated the Mastermind at the City of Dis.
 He survived 1325826 turns and scored 158248 points.
 He played for 2 hours, 25 minutes and 36 seconds.
 He was a man of Ultra-Violence!

 He killed 522 out of 709 hellspawn. (73%)
 He was an Angel of Purity!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 11
  Levels visited   : 2
  Levels completed : 1

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Cyberdemon's Head
  UAC Star (gold cluster)
  Untouchable Badge
  Hell Champion Medal
  Inquisitor Gold Badge
  Inquisitor Platinum Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  #########................................##################
  ########...............####...............#################
  #######.......####.....####.....####.......################
  ######........####.....####.....####........###############
  #####.........####.....####.....####.........##############
  ####..........####..............####..........#############
  ###............................................############
  ###....####............................####....############
  ###...&####............................####....############
  ###....####...................X....%...####....############
  ###....####............................####....############
  ###............................................############
  ####..........####............................#############
  #####.........####.....###......####.........##############
  ######........####.....##.......####........###############
  #######.......####.....#........####.......################
  ########..................................#################
  #########................................##################
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 33/50   Experience 35980/9
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +0  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Scout

    Finesse          (Level 1)
    Hellrunner       (Level 2)
    Reloader         (Level 2)
    Juggler          (Level 1)
    Dodgemaster      (Level 1)
    Shottyman        (Level 1)
    Gunrunner        (Level 1)

  Rel->Rel->SM->HR->HR->DM->Fin->Jug->MGr->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   blue armor [1/2] (40%)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   elephant gun (12d3) [0/1]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   tactical boots [0/0] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   rocket launcher (6d6) [0/1]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] red armor [4/4] (85%)
    [b] phaseshift armor [1/2] (14%) (A)
    [c] shotgun shell (x50)
    [d] shotgun shell (x50)
    [e] shotgun shell (x50)
    [f] shotgun shell (x50)
    [g] shotgun shell (x50)
    [h] shotgun shell (x40)
    [i] shotgun shell (x50)
    [j] shotgun shell (x50)
    [k] shotgun shell (x50)
    [l] large med-pack
    [m] large med-pack
    [n] large med-pack
    [o] shell box (x100)
    [p] shell box (x100)

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Plasma     - internal 0%    torso 10%   feet 0%   

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    51 former humans
    55 former sergeants
    16 former captains
    97 imps
    72 demons
    141 lost souls
    14 cacodemons
    23 hell knights
    13 barons of hell
    13 arachnotrons
    7 former commandos
    11 pain elementals
    2 revenants
    2 mancubi
    1 arch-vile
    2 bruiser brothers
    1 Cyberdemon
    1 Spider Mastermind

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 2 he entered Hell's Arena.
  He left the Arena as a champion!
  On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
  On level 9 he assembled a tactical boots!
  On level 14 he found the Enviroboots!
  On level 15 he assembled a elephant gun!
  On level 16 he found the Tower of Babel!
  He left level 17 as soon as possible.
  On level 17 he invaded the Unholy Cathedral!
  He fled the Unholy Cathedral seeing no chance to win.
  He left level 20 as soon as possible.
  He left level 21 as soon as possible.
  He left level 23 as soon as possible.
  Then at last he found Dis!
  On level 24 he finally defeated the Mastermind.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 You dodge! Boom! You are hit!
 The Spider Mastermind flinched!
 Boom! You dodge! You are hit! You dodge! Boom! You dodge!
 You use a large med-pack. You feel fully healed. You are hit! You are hit!
 You are hit! Your blue armor is damaged! You are hit! Boom!
 You dodge! You dodge! You dodge! You dodge!
 You start running!
 You dodge! You dodge! You dodge! You are hit!
 You dodge! You dodge! You dodge! You dodge! You are hit!
 The Spider Mastermind flinched!
 You dodge! You dodge! Boom! You are hit!
 You dodge! You dodge! You dodge! You dodge!
 Boom! You dodge! You are hit! You dodge!
 The Spider Mastermind dies. Congratulations! You defeated the Spider
 Mastermind! Press <Enter>...
 You feel relatively safe now.

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 313 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 253 of those were killed.
 3 of those were killed by something unknown.
 28 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 12 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 17 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 2 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 12 killed the bitch and survived.
 3 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------

7
Discussion / Re: Game inspired in part by DoomRL
« on: October 13, 2016, 01:54 »
despite the fact that by current gen games both suck for DoomRL! It still was the most accessible roguelike when it came out though!

Which modern roguelikes are you thinking of when you say this? Dungeons of Dredmore seems the obvious "polished UI" roguelike, but it commits the [IMO] cardinal sin of ability tooltips that don't actually tell you what the ability does.

Some of the handheld roguelikes (Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, POWDER, Dungeon of Slyn) are more accessible from a UX perspective, but of those only Dungeon of Slyn had a PC release.

There are a few "games with roguelike elements" kicking around too, but I don't think they're really fair comparisons either.

8
Post Mortem / Re: [H|AoLT|YAAM]
« on: October 13, 2016, 01:48 »
I'm reasonably sure that AoLT is easier than vanilla game.

The whole "AoOC N! is easier" thing has always seemed not entirely accurate to me -- it seems far more that it's easier to restart repeatedly and rely on luck due to the short game length.

9
Post Mortem / Re: [H|AoLT|YAAM]
« on: October 12, 2016, 07:45 »
If you can take N! AoOC, you can almost certainly beat AoLT UV if not N!. Just gotta go faster.

10
Post Mortem / Re: [M|AoOC/AoPc|4%|24|YASD] Why the fuck!
« on: January 12, 2016, 02:56 »
Clearly, overloading a nuclear BFG to create a massive explosion is far more in line with your pacifistic beliefs than firing it.

11
Requests For Features / Re: Survivalist buff idea
« on: January 08, 2016, 21:19 »
Uh, this is almost exactly doubling? Survivalist currently has a 50% chance of reducing one-damage attacks to zero, this is almost-but-not-quite 100% of one-damage attacks (it'd ignore attacks that would deal one damage even in the absence of the damage floor, but I suspect them to be the minority of attacks).

It's also pretty clear given the state of other master traits (mainly looking at Vampyre) that some level of brokenness is seen as acceptable, but sure, I agree that it would be extremely strong.

How consistently could you realistically do this? TaN(3) + Red Armour is 7 protection, which means Mancubi still deal 4 damage on average even taking into account resistances. The main problem I see is that it'd now be possible to wall out Arachnotrons with Red Armour, which kinda undoes their role in preventing players from putting all their eggs in that basket.

12
Requests For Features / Survivalist buff idea
« on: January 06, 2016, 06:47 »
I think Survivalist is generally acknowledged as being pretty underwhelming, so I figured I'd suggest: instead of having a 50% shot at reducing 1 damage to 0, maybe it could just remove the 1 damage floor against your character, so that resistances and armour can reduce any given attack to 0?

If almost doubling its effectiveness is too unreasonable, you can remove the health pack overheal from the trait.

13
I've been on break from this game for a while, and Orandulum messaged me yesterday to let me know he'd beat UV Angel of Impatience. I casually mentioned that I'd never managed to beat it, and he expressed surprise on the grounds that he felt it to be an easier AoMs. So I figured I'd do a few runs.

It became pretty apparent in my first few attempts that Orandulum's assessment was not entirely correct. I survived the AoMs early game by abusing the fact that Marine can immediately take two levels in Badass and effectively be playing with 200% health, without compromising his ability to get Vampyre ASAP; the overheal-on-level-up aspect of AoMs actually makes the challenge very abusable for Marine. After a few failed attempts at getting Vampyre off the ground, I did what any self-respecting scrub would do and switched back to my usual Scout build.

Two things went kinda wrong. First, I was at scarily low (around 8%) health during one of my level-ups, which led me to buy a point in Iro (which immediately went to good use as I caught the edge of Mancubus splash before even taking an action; I'm reasonably sure I would have died without it). Second, shortly after buying Gunrunner, I hit tab and sprinted at the nearest enemy, only to find that I wasn't firing for some reason. Because, as you may have guessed from the title, I hadn't actually purchased Gunrunner, I'd mistakenly purchased Shottyhead. Contrary to my title, Shottyhead is not OP.

Of course, I'm a motherfucking Scout so I grab double invulns and stair-dive to the Mastermind.

After playing this game for a long time, you get a pretty good feel for what the AI is likely to do, you get to know the movement habits of various enemies and how to bait and whether or not you've got cover from them. Interesting thing about the Mastermind fight: I don't really know the Mastermind's AI at all, because I've never fought it "fairly", I've always punched it in the face repeatedly, Gunrunner'd it, nuked it, fired at it off-screen with Int(2), or just used boring old invulnerability. With a horribly underpowered trait and invulnerability worn off, it was time to learn; I took around 50% of my health trying to figure out where I could stand and how I could safely hurt it. I dealt the bulk of my damage with rocket launcher splash damage, but towards the end found myself kind-of-but-not-really kiting the Mastermind around pillars. Flinch really helped, as did slightly odd pathing behaviour around pillars near walls.

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 AAA, level 10 Hell Baron Lt. Colonel Scout,
 defeated the Mastermind at the City of Dis.
 He survived 1240125 turns and scored 177085 points.
 He played for 2 hours, 2 minutes and 28 seconds.
 He was a man of Ultra-Violence!

 He killed 669 out of 834 hellspawn. (80%)
 He was an Angel of Impatience!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 11
  Levels visited   : 1
  Levels completed : 1

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Cyberdemon's Head
  UAC Star (silver cluster)
  Untouchable Badge
  Chessmaster's Token
  Hell Champion Medal
  Eagerness Silver Badge
  Eagerness Gold Badge
  Eagerness Platinum Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ################..............X..................##########
  ################...............##.................#########
  ###############.......##.......###.................########
  ##############........####.....####.....####........#######
  #############.........####.....####.....####.........######
  ############..........####..............####..........#####
  ###########............................................####
  ###########....####............%...............####....####
  ###########....####............................####....####
  ###########....####............................####&...####
  ###########....####............................####....####
  ###########............................................####
  ############..........#.#...............####..........#####
  #############.........###......####.....####.........######
  ##############........####.....####.....####........#######
  ###############.......####.....####.....####.......########
  ################...............####...............#########
  #################................................##########
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 28/60   Experience 43703/10
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +0  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Scout

    Ironman          (Level 1)
    Finesse          (Level 1)
    Hellrunner       (Level 2)
    Reloader         (Level 2)
    Juggler          (Level 1)
    Dodgemaster      (Level 1)
    Shottyman        (Level 1)
    Shottyhead       (Level 1)

  Rel->Rel->SM->HR->HR->DM->Iro->Fin->Jug->MSh->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   blue armor [2/2] (76%) (T)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   shotgun (9d3) [0/1] (P1)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   tactical boots [0/0] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   shell box (x65)

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] rocket launcher (6d6) [0/1] (F1)
    [b] green armor [1/1] (100%)
    [c] blue armor [1/2] (49%)
    [d] red armor [4/4] (99%) (T)
    [e] red armor [4/4] (77%)
    [f] shotgun shell (x50)
    [g] shotgun shell (x8)
    [h] shotgun shell (x50)
    [i] shotgun shell (x50)
    [j] shotgun shell (x50)
    [k] shotgun shell (x50)
    [l] steel boots [1/1] (100%)

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Plasma     - internal 0%    torso 20%   feet 0%   

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    92 former humans
    60 former sergeants
    20 former captains
    131 imps
    81 demons
    165 lost souls
    28 cacodemons
    28 hell knights
    13 barons of hell
    11 former commandos
    12 pain elementals
    1 revenant
    15 mancubi
    8 arch-viles
    2 bruiser brothers
    1 Cyberdemon
    1 Spider Mastermind

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 2 he entered Hell's Arena.
  He left the Arena as a champion!
  On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
  He sounded the alarm on level 9!
  Level 12 was a hard nut to crack!
  On level 13 he found the Medical Powerarmor!
  On level 15 he assembled a tactical boots!
  On level 16 he found the Tower of Babel!
  He left level 21 as soon as possible.
  Then at last he found Dis!
  On level 24 he finally defeated the Mastermind.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : floor
 You reload the shotgun.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : floor
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : floor
 You quickly reload the shotgun.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : floor
 You quickly reload the shotgun.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : floor
 The Spider Mastermind dies. Congratulations! You defeated the Spider
 Mastermind! Press <Enter>...
 You feel relatively safe now.

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 241 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 194 of those were killed.
 3 of those were killed by something unknown.
 21 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 10 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 13 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 1 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 9 killed the bitch and survived.
 3 showed that it can outsmart Hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------

14
Bug Reports / [0.9.9.7G Linux] Barrel on teleporter exit
« on: May 02, 2015, 02:53 »
I decided to see what would happen if I pushed a barrel onto a teleporter exit tile. A little while later, I got an off-screen kill followed by an error. Game continued as normal.

15
Awww, I got a mention.

Scout is unreasonable to the point of brokenness in both of the Light Travel challenges IMO, glad you had fun abusing it.

99% + Lightfoot Gold is actually pretty good, almost all of my Lightfoot badges have been low% runs, grats.

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