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Discussion / I get owned.
« on: February 10, 2007, 16:53 »
I'm playing on easy difficulty setting but on higher levels with many ArchViles and the spider like things with plasma rifle (dont recall names, but thats how they looked like in Doom2 ;) ) I tend to get totally owned, by getting surrounded by cacodemons / Any of the monsters mentioned above, and blasted to hell by their weapons. I tend to have a rocket launcher, a plasma rifle and a double shottie with me. My traits are usually Ironman2/3 , ToughAsNails lvl 3 and either stonewall or reloader lvl1/2. I use the coward tactic when reloading and moving and aggresive whilst shooting. Any advices for me?
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I managed to get a game that lasted longer than 2 and a half hours.. so far this is my best game yet! I know, compared to some I might suck, but the cool part is I think I'm actually getting better!This is really a great thing about CRAWL. You really improve with time!
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Discussion / Re: wtf is wrong with melee?
« on: February 03, 2007, 14:55 »General consensus now is that melee is a little overpowered xD. As for missing with a chainsaw -- find one take it in your arms, and try to hit a moving target (and remember that flying skulls and demons are quick!). Chainsaws are HEAVY!Thats correct, but our hero is the one badass so he should be able to autohit with chainsaw (vide original doom) ;)
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After playing for some time you are almost sure which monsters you can beat with your class/race and which not, that becomes more intuitive :). You kinda get to know which monsters you can defeat with everything you have with ya.
Yeah, there's an issue with low dlvl/high monster lvl spawns. But that's rare, for the most part, and becomes mostly trivial if you give up on going head-on with every monster you meet, or taking the one class that you just can't play at your skill level. This game teaches you to run away when the risks are high. The problem's also balanced by often spawning great wands very early, which then work as a limited number of "problem solvers".
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For what ? Nobody is forcing me to do things in any certain order. Still you do them in ur own order, you choose , what you do next, and that is exactly what i meant.QuoteHmmm but you come into dungeons in some order, dont you? For example first to carpenters dungeon, then to a dark hole, or whatever. This way you can surely number dungeons.
Very nice, but I dont like reading spoilers.QuoteAnd i didnt get any ignots in the 2 dungeons i was with my blacksmith, which was kinda...annoying.This phrase only shows you dont really get the process of smithing in the first place. It is perfectly possible to find lots, and lots of ore right in the beginning, in certain places.
DoomRl is a roguelike game, and not much of an action game. It doesnt have any features of an action game, unless you count being fast paced as being an action game. Damn, most roguelikes arent RPG games,as they dont have the plot which is important to RPG game, and normal RPG doesnt involve random dungeons, items and monsters.(´the one thing they have from RPG games is character development system. But thats the only one.). Only AdoM has actually a plot that evolves ( a little).QuoteBesides you dont have any shops in DoomRl but noone whines about it ;).Thats because DooMRL is not an rpg, but an action game, therefore your point is moot.
Counter Strike is selling a lot and people play it, and most people agree that its a great game, still im sure there are some weirdos that mean that Counter Strike sucks because it is too hard, and that it is very boring, so lets play chess.QuoteIf that would be truth there would be no winners.Well, what can i say, people are weird like that, they like boring games. Its like how usians have this love for Nascar, or hunting games. Stupid, but they are selling like gold.
I try all the new scrolls and potions on lvl 1 and 2 so i dont have such problems. Again, it shows that you didnt play the game enough. Wands can be easily tried out BEFORE you find the OOD monster. One jackal "pack" at lvl 1 usually counts 3 jackals, which arent that hard even for a mage. And once again, like TfoN said, in CRAWL you dont fight monsters that you are sure to lose to. Besides the great system in crawl is that you have plenty of stairs both up and down a dungeon. So if you happen to come down and be surrounded by 20 Ogres go up and come in with another entrance´. And this is only 1 way of escaping. I encountered a situation, when i teleport only 4 tiles away only 2 times. And its not hard to use them even with delay...QuoteFirst of all 75% of the time you didnt notice a potion, a scroll of teleportation, a wand or whatever else could help you. Thats normal, as there are shitloads of items in CRAWL . Jackal packs are a bad example cause they arent that hard to kill unless you are a weak or multi class (and that is again where class makes a huge difference) , and i have never met an ogre on level 1 (although it is possible) and i have played much over 200 games. I found a monster with a dagger of electrocution 2 times. Did you never went through level 1 ?Uh-huh. Except it almost never works out. Potions turn out to be potions of degeneration or poison, scrolls of teleportation work with a huge delay and move you, like, 3-4 squares from where you were before, and wands heal your enemies. Jackal packs are a perfect example, because unless you are a troll or something, you cant kill 4-5 jackals one after another on level 1, and they are much faster than you are, so no escape either.
My record was level 19 or 20, its way too hard for anyone after that. How do you call it, when you take a stairs down with a full health and die immediately on arrival, without a single chance to do anything at all ? Incredibly dumb, i say.
This is very pathetic. I thought it was newsgr. about roguelikes.QuoteIn any case, to each his or her own. Everone likes different things and looks for different things when they play games. That is why having such a large variety of games available is a great thing.Sure. Except why dont all CRAWL fanatics pack up and get the hell out to their own newsgroup, instead of occupying the r.g.r.misc one. Like there is nothing in the world but CRAWL...
Very nice. Because you think so doesnt mean you are right.QuoteWhat i would really like to see is skills like those of a blacksmith or farmer (very unique indeed), but tweaked in a way so that they could be usable (or at least easier to use).They are perfectly usable as is. I personally have won the game twice with a farmer.
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It is funny how people can have such different opinions about games. For me, I really liked ADoM for a while, but then felt like it got too boring and repetitive. Primarily that is because the beginning game was pretty much the same each time I played. I stopped playing when the change got introduced that made creatures stronger that you kill a lot. When I had a really strong character killed by a bunch of Super Jackals On Steroids it was annoying to me.Yeah well... i always hated it.
And the reasons Karry gives for disliking Crawl are the very things that I like about it. I like the fact that choosing a starting class does not tie you in to a specific play style. If I want to play a Troll Fighter but then change my mind and turn it into a Troll Mage I can. I also like the fact that I gain experience in the things I use. I always thought it was strange in other games that I could kill tons of monsters with my sword and then when I gain a level, pick to cast spells or heal better. In Crawl, if you use a sword you get better with a sword.That's actually not correct. Your troll will be a crap of a mage even if he manages to get that spellcasting point, he won;t be intelligent enough to learn the first spell (unless you put all ur stats into intelligence), and even if he does, he won't be good enough to cast it efficient (Which doesn't give you much, as at that point you really need the strongest means possible to kill creatures, and lvl 1 spell wont do much good). And that's again, how the class affects you.
I do miss the monster memory system that ADoM has. I think that it is great and would like to have that added to all roguelikes. I also really like the inventory system that Thomas Biskup uses.I actually miss the great monster DESCRIPTIONS!!!! That Adom has.
What i would really like to see is skills like those of a blacksmith or farmer (very unique indeed), but tweaked in a way so that they could be usable (or at least easier to use). The idea of a rpg/roguelike game would be much better with more villages, and more shops and stuff.
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Discussion / Re: help from the great ones plz?
« on: February 02, 2007, 14:25 »Only risk of that is that you might instead hear explosions, and now all those wonderful items you could have gotten are gone.And that works almost always with shotguns. Another point that chaingun can be more useful.
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Hmmm but you come into dungeons in some order, dont you? For example first to carpenters dungeon, then to a dark hole, or whatever. This way you can surely number dungeons. And i didnt get any ignots in the 2 dungeons i was with my blacksmith, which was kinda...annoying.Quotebecause many of his useful abillities can be used only with specific items which you probably don't get until dungeon 3rd or so.You dont make any sense. Dungeons are not numbered, so whats stopping you ?.
No need for villages in a game that is so fast paced as Crawl. The shop system is much like in Nethack, except that you cant sell anything (which eliminates the problem of cleaning out a dungeon from items and then selling them). Besides you dont have any shops in DoomRl but noone whines about it ;). And this works well in a fast paced roguelike with only 1 dungeon and shops without restock. Black market in AdoM gives you no gold for useful items, so there is no point in selling them. And besides Adom has some villages. It could as well have more than 2, if it has those quests, it would as well have more villages, more quests, more anything. Right now it is a weird mix of RPG and Roguelike game. I love some ideas that AdoM has implemented, but still i find it annoying in the long run, that the world isnt bigger than this. Many items in crawl are useless, or useless for your profession. But dont try to tell me that wands, and most rings or amulets are useless. It is just not true.Quote2 villages? A shop with food rations only and a black market? And where am i supposed to sell items?Okay, so you dont want to sell items to black market. CRAWL : no villages ? nowhere to sell items ? most items are useless ? even ring of invisibility is absolutely damn useless ? .
QuoteThere's no difference in an assasin and a stalker?Nope.QuoteNo difference in playing style?Not really, no. The only difference in playing style is between "Fighter group" and "Mage group".QuoteNo difference between playing an Ice Elementalist and a Wizard, or a Warper?None that would actually matter.QuoteNo difference between a kobold assasin and a mummy necromancer?Not really. The only difference is that one starts with a spellbook. Thats all.
I can say nothing but that you didn t play the game enough :)
I couldnt find one when i got swarmed by so called experienced jackals in the wilderness with a beastfighter (or what it is called)Quoteafter many many tries you get really better at it, so that you really see your mistakes (if you ever thought that you dont make mistakes, and you always die because of unfair dungeons, come on, dont be ridiculous).Hmm, okay, i wasnt ridiculous in the first place, but whatever. The difference from ADoM is - there is always a way out in there..
You get warned when you venture into some really dangerous placesWell, this is really helpful rofl.
there are usually some ways of fooling monsters, or means of escape, or something. In CRAWL - okay, you go around the corner on level 1 and meet face to face with an Ogre. Thats it. There is nothing you can do to it, and 99% of time you cant escape it. You're dead. Or you get killed with a dagger of electrocution on the same level 1. Still fair ? Or you find a jackal pack on the same level 1. .First of all 75% of the time you didnt notice a potion, a scroll of teleportation, a wand or whatever else could help you. Thats normal, as there are shitloads of items in CRAWL . Jackal packs are a bad example cause they arent that hard to kill unless you are a weak or multi class (and that is again where class makes a huge difference) , and i have never met an ogre on level 1 (although it is possible) and i have played much over 200 games. I found a monster with a dagger of electrocution 2 times. Did you never went through level 1 ?
An example how you can survive even in a hardest situation : Lvl 10 HE Ice Elementalist came to a hive with many many killerbees, and some other nasty monsters. Probably if i stayed there and tried to fight i would die very fast, as there were like 20 high level monsters around me. Fortunatly i had some scrolls of teleportation with me which i used and then defeated the monsters which flied on the whole level, searching for me. If i used that scroll 1 turn later i would be dead by now. And thats how, many of character die. Sometimes you just dont notice something that can help you.
If that would be truth there would be no winners. And probably people would use only one, the most suitable class -- race combination. But, because they like variety, they choose different combinations.QuoteBut unlike Adom every game is different, maybe because of no quests or something else... beside the replayability is Soooo damn high, so that even the difficulty don't mean a thing...Uh, whats so different about it ? Every game is the same. You go around killing things, there is nothing else, nothing to do, nothing to see, its just mindnumbingly plain and boring... .
Actually, you said the same thing that Adral says. You probably didnt notice the brackets () ;)QuoteI agree with Supernaut, maybe a class doesn't mean "anything" (it does mean, in the early game, and some classes are MUCH easier than others, also keep in mind that your stats depend on your class, so it's important for the late game too), but race does mean, and a lot at that.Compare with ADoM, where race matters, and a class also matters. The choices you make at the start actually mean something.
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The problem with Crawl are the early levels, although this is being corrected step by step by their development team with Stone Soup variant. It's much easier to survive (for me, at least) in SS than in "normal" Crawl.Hey, when i started SS i have chosen a ghoul fighter and the first things i noticed were :
1. All the dice rolls, to hit, and damage were shown, which greatly destroyed the whole pseudo realism in game
2. I played with some "Wizard mode" on but i cant configure it. When i "die" the game asks me "Do you want to die" or something like that...and man it is really annoying.
Anyone encountered those "problems"?
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Discussion / Re: Idea: implementation of a KeyMovie variant for faster online Crawling
« on: February 01, 2007, 14:22 »
I still think that cooperative D&D - like Roguelike games would be loads of fun, even though Roguelikes were intended to be Sp. Say what you want, but being able to help your mate and share the experience in dungeon would be loads of fun in my opinion (no i haven't tried Tomenet, but it looks like they didn't make it worth a try ;) )
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ADoM every class is playable, compared to...ADOM vs Crawl you say? Ok here are some points that i agree with. Take this, ADOM lovers!!! >>>>http://www.tripalot.com/roguelike/review.htm#adom<<<
And there are normal shops, compared to...
Anyway, CRAWL. It makes a fine coffee break game, but normal people will never get very far, that privilege is reserved for game maniacs, like those who beat DooMRL on UV.
Umm...anyway, CRAWL. A game where a chosen class means nothing. A game where map generation code is one of the worst there is, and creating the ugliest and the most senseless labyrinths you can see in a game. A game that tells you NOTHING ! You have to look everything up in spoilers, just to be able to understand the system. A game where its pretty much impossible to create a stealth-based char. And dont get me started on the subject of Sigmund and player's ghosts...
ADoM is an infinitely more refined and pleasureable game than this sorry attempt at hardcore.
Besides i tried many times playing Blacksmith class (because i like the idea) but i failed, because many of his useful abillities can be used only with specific items which you probably don't get until dungeon 3rd or so. A class with a strong pet is somehow crippled. It doesn't get any experience for the pet's kills (pet gets all), so it advances muuuch slower. I tried playing as hunter specified class, going wild in wilderness, but somehow experienced werejackals started to be a problem, and finally my doom. I tried playing a stealth specified class, but well... i died. The game is huge, but it always seem to me...not finished. 2 villages? A shop with food rations only and a black market? And where am i supposed to sell items?
In Crawl chosen class means nothing? Maybe race too? There's no difference in an assasin and a stalker? No difference in playing style? No difference between playing an Ice Elementalist and a Wizard, or a Warper? No difference between a kobold assasin and a mummy necromancer? O'realy?
Besides i have to say that although the game is hard to play and to beat, after many many tries you get really better at it, so that you really see your mistakes (if you ever thought that you dont make mistakes, and you always die because of unfair dungeons, come on, dont be ridiculous). Learning curve is high, so is difficulty. But unlike Adom every game is different, maybe because of no quests or something else... beside the replayability is Soooo damn high, so that even the difficulty don't mean a thing...
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Discussion / Re: Idea: implementation of a KeyMovie variant for faster online Crawling
« on: January 31, 2007, 18:14 »
I had a similar idea for a multiplayer roguelike before but i think it would be DAMN hard to do. You know, the whole coding thing should have to be redone. I think even being able to talk with player while watching him playing would be loads of fun. But multiplayer crawl fx....man this is a dream. Or imagine 2 player cooperative Doom. Maaaaan ;) .
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I agree, RNG really is eVil!!! i would like to post my best char till now, i just played with him and got to 2nd elven halls! With 3 books, 6 wands, loads of potions and unfortunatly very few scrolls i got killed by a polymorphing Ice beast (it was an iron troll before, i guess it was some kind of elven character who polymorphed). Unfortunatly i was a high elven Ice Elementalist so fighting an ice beast really was more than hard. My best char at the time :)
One thing i need to ask, is there anyone who has tried Telnet crawl and it worked well for him? The game shows like letters and messages on the screen, and it mixes with background and game screen, and looks really messed up. Anyone tried it?
One thing i need to ask, is there anyone who has tried Telnet crawl and it worked well for him? The game shows like letters and messages on the screen, and it mixes with background and game screen, and looks really messed up. Anyone tried it?
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First of all what is RNG? Second, how do you get such a detailed char information after you die? I want to post every one i did (i had like 200 chars ;> )
And BTW anyone else thinks that all that info C:SS displays sucks? I don't want to know the dice rolls for christ sake! Yes, it is more helpful, but it totally destroys pseudo realism in game :(. And did anyone manage to find a solution to that Crawl online problem?
And BTW anyone else thinks that all that info C:SS displays sucks? I don't want to know the dice rolls for christ sake! Yes, it is more helpful, but it totally destroys pseudo realism in game :(. And did anyone manage to find a solution to that Crawl online problem?