Chaosforge Forum

  • August 09, 2022, 02:12
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - Sylph

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 21
BTW is this the best place to post about these kinds of issues, or would you prefer steam/reddit/something else?
I think most tend to get reported to the game's discord.

Post Mortem / Re: [1.2.0|E|Ma|YAAM] Scrapgun Confusion
« on: December 29, 2021, 11:57 »
Entrenchment becomes useless? Really?
The ammo efficiency of the scrapgun doesn't stack with entrenchment? That's weird!

Post Mortem / Re: [1.2 RC2|U|Sc|YAAM] Pirate/Assassin/Zombie
« on: December 13, 2021, 11:23 »
I'm *so* glad someone mentioned nightmare difficulty increasing (/dante)!
I've read accounts of nightmare being easier than it used to be, and in my experience it got *far* harder over the last year!

Post Mortem / Re: [1.2 RC2|U|Sc|YAAM] Pirate/Assassin/Zombie
« on: December 09, 2021, 07:59 »
I'm pretty sure getting wins on N! and A! are more an exception than a commonality.

I do agree with the points about constantly changing weapons to be prepared for upcoming events, although there is always a flip-side from the fact that the time spent changing weapons can actually be punishing in '!' difficulty levels due to the respawn 'time limit'.

I also feel that UV and below are kinda relaxing, but I know I only feel that way from playing on the higher difficulties! I certainly wouldn't call hard or UV anything like a walk in the park, and there is definitely a need for some degree of strategy - if not having the right weapons ready, then good use of cover etc are required instead!

I've mostly been trying to get wins with scout or technician lately, since a clear majority of my wins so far have been with the marine.
I'm so glad you're giving them a go!
My current feeling is that the marine is *way* more powerful than the other classes in the more taxing challenges. Partly from the fact that hellrunner is so strong, less so but relevant is the fact that cover master is the poorer equivalent of hellrunner for a 'basic' defense skill; partly from all the marine's healing; but partly just because the utility of marine traits is so damn strong. I mean, incredible power of survivor and vampyre aside, have you tried bloodhound? They even get the closest equivalent to DRL intuition for my money!!!

I don't mind that, btw: Just in case it sounded like some kind of a complaint! Part of me kinda likes the fact that the marine is the occupation most suited to fighting jovian demonic incursions! It's like throwing a weapon to a surveyor, an engineer, and a soldier, then pitting them against a force of sci-fi demons and seeing which gets furthest!!!

I think the only thing that really niggles at me is that any scout/tech/marine wins (since I feel different classes present a hugely different challenge) are tracked as 'the same' for almost all badges. I recently suggested a possible addition to the game that would track the player class used to finish any challenge; I think it would give the game a *huge* amount of extra longevity for those of us that see game modes as a 'puzzle' to be solved.

Oh, you flatter me.  :P  (Thanks!)
Nothing undeserved!!! ;)

Re: The lack of Apocalype badges... I'm quite happy with it. I understand that in future A! is intended to be balanced without regeneration. I really like the idea of that (well, I'd be ok with a reduced form of respawning, just not to the extent of N!), and knowing that makes me comfortable with the fact that A! badges don't exist - they're not supposed to! Current A! is a placeholder for something better in future!

Re: hellrunner - Tormuse is currently trying a scout build without hellrunner at all on A!
I'm currently playing loosely with A! technician runs (because I love the tech), but it's an ordeal!
I don't know how Tormuse does it! The guy is a machine! Always has been on chaosforge games! It took all the effort in the world for me to get a N! win without hellrunner (technician without just cheesing toxicologist/wizard!)... Getting that kind of result in A! Is just one step beyond!!

Re: Soulstealer / shattered abyss - I've done soulstealer on A!!!! In fact, I got absolutely, truly ridiculous with it!!!
Check out this screenshot:
(Specifically, the damage!)
In fact, I'd say that, provided proper care is taken, good marine masters (ok, survivor and vampyre) have an easier run when they do shattered abyss. Soulstealer can be a really powerful way to cap off the end of the game on '!' difficulty. :)
"I see you didn't puss out like I did and actually got Soulstealer. Getting that sword on A! is a first, as far as I know. " - Just to be clear, I'm certain that my soulstealer run was at least a few days after this run! I suspect Tormuse was still first, he was just reasonable about it, unlike me!!! :P

I'm very much in the same boat as you, though, Cotonou... N! and A! feel like the realm of the hellrunner. In fact I can categorically state that I found A! using hellrunner (or wizard) easier than N! without. I really *love* the mechanics of the game, especially the way hunker and aim play off the 'general' dodge and cover mechanics. For this reason I've always felt a little disappointed that N! (and apocalypse) favour Hellrunner so strongly due to the respawning 'time limit', and for that reason I'm hugely looking forward to what the 'new' apocalypse offers when the focus on respawning enemies is dialed back somewhat.

(ps. Massive congratulations to you, too, Cotonou! I've always seen Tormuse as someone to measure up against, but your recent return and amazing runs on JH have clearly demonstrated that you're another 'one to beat', as it were. Kudos and respect!!! I wonder how many other A! winners there are floating around the internet, besides the 3 of us in this topic?)

Amazing job!

Regarding the 'near miss' from the archmedusa - I'm not sure whether it's a bug or intended, but even after their 'charging' mode runs out, they stay charged until they fire! I'm not sure why they don't pre-charge before they see you. (Don't get any ideas Kornel!)

It can still be really valuable to let their charging mode run out, because we can often shoot them to death before they fire their shot.

I know Tormuse already knows this, but for anyone else reading - if we *must* take a medusa beam, I did some testing on it, and cover, hunker, and dodge are the best defenses against it. Importantly, it's usually better to 'hunker' until their beam fires, and *then* retaliate, than it is to attack while they are charging.

Awesome run! I'm going to have a go at some A! challenges soon, but I'll not be able to hold a candle to you! Well done, kudos!

General Discussion / Re: run-wait?
« on: November 09, 2021, 07:34 »
it doesn't take the strategy away though, it just makes the strategy significantly more frustrating.
To be fair, the way the monster AI in JH works means that having a wait on the spot command is nowhere near as strategically significant as it was in doomrl. In DRL you could clear an entire level by waiting in one place. In JH the monsters don't roam around the level like that, they keep to much smaller patrol areas, so waiting on the spot is only really significant for the situations like the one you described, and at the moment that can be pretty tedious. If reducing tedious player experiences are desired, then it's worth bearing in mind that this current behaviour is *certainly* a lot more tedious than pressing w5.

General Discussion / Re: My first impressions
« on: November 08, 2021, 22:33 »
I just want to shoe-in to recommend Hadriex's streams. He maintains constant verbal chatter, which is exactly what you want when watching a videogame stream, and he's been playing JH unspoiled, so it's been *super* entertaining!

I'm expecting UV play and maybe even some 'angel of' challenges a few days down the line. I've been hooked!

(Thankyou Hadriex!)

General Discussion / Re: My first impressions
« on: October 25, 2021, 13:29 »
I loved watching your video! I was laughing from the get-go when you were getting annoyed at having to do as you were told during the tutorial! I commented on your vid with a few observations that I thought you might appreciate, but I just wanted to thank you here for a really entertaining few hours! x

Discussion / Re: How Dead is this Game?
« on: April 15, 2021, 05:37 »
The drive for a re-creation of doomrl without ip problems is amazing!
As I'd mentioned in my post above, I think it would be an awesome opportunity for the jupiter hell engine.

Being a career IT developer, I'd happily lend my talents where ever they could be of use, but it's worth mentioning that I don't currently hugely enjoy coding, nor find myself particularly gifted with it!
I have enough interest to tinker (like adding a 'run-wait' feature to jupiter hell for my own pleasure!), but I don't tend to have enough passion to push a project of any great scale as a hobby!
What I do love is writing and design, so at the very least I could offer documentation, lore, and even some game design ideas if further expansion on the title was intended.
I recognise, though, that doomrl is Kornel's baby, and he should ultimately be the overlord for any attempts to move it forwards.

TheLaptop: thankyou for the change to the forum autolock feature! I think I'll be very thankful to you in the future, when I get to reply to threads here!

Discussion / Re: How Dead is this Game?
« on: April 13, 2021, 22:00 »
Ps... You know what I'd *really*, *really* pay to see?

Doomrl *exactly* recreated with the jupiter hell engine, and the id software ip content swapped out with functionally identical replacements.

That way, not only could I enjoy my favourite game with amazing graphics and sound and the most streamlined, beautiful roguelike engine I've ever seen; but the dev work could continue adding to it like the 'good old days' 10 years ago! 🖤

I remember reading that a doomrl mod for jupiter hell was 'almost inevitable', and it's one of the things that excited me most about it!

Discussion / Re: How Dead is this Game?
« on: April 13, 2021, 21:53 »
Doomrl is always one of the first programs installed on a new device for me too!

I think it always will be.

Every few years, I tend to come back to it, and start gathering those badges to unlock game modes and increase in rank! I love the gradual progression, and the way you get to 'pick' which challenges you'll use to progress.

The strategy in doomrl is absolutely remarkable. The only game that comes close, for me, is the revamped xcom series.

I have enjoyed some jupiter hell, and it's my hope that, in time, it manages to accumulate the same depth with a wide range of unique feeling levels, weapons, and builds (both character and modpack! ;)) that doomrl has. I have confidence that it'll get there, but in the mean time doomrl is my go-to title for turn-based tactics!
I haven't visited the forums due to distraction for the last few months, but I'm always eager to read new player experiences, ideas, and mortems.

(Yes Tormuse, your everyman medal was incredible! I'm sorry you didn't get enough fanfare for it!! 🖤)

Regarding these forums: they *really* need the 'auto-lock function on threads to be removed. The traffic has got lower over time, which makes me visit less frequently. However, when I *do* visit, see a topic that interests me and try to join in on some discussion. .. NOPE, thread autolocked, every time!

I have a strong suspicion that this feature is contributing to the 'deadness' of the community.

Most impressive! I've got my eyes on this one, but with a totally different build!
Nice work! I'll take note of the bleeding protection point, I hadn't noticed it myself.

Hi Guys!!!
I've been *loving* getting my mittens on Jupiter Hell! I think you guys have done *such* a fab job with the the engine, how responsive it feels, how atmospheric it can be, and how open to potential it is! I just wanted to put together few thoughts I've been having about the combat tactics of the game as it is right now. I have a few questions about the LOS design decisions, and a bunch of ideas that I feel might not be too hard to implement, that could offer a great deal more strategic depth to the game.
I'm not covering nebulous concepts like 'make more diverse weaponry aka where's the BFG?!' or 'make more individual challenges/areas', because I appreciate that they are in the development pipeline, and how they're implemented is something I'm more excited to see the dev's solution to, after the way new content was handled in DRL!
That is to say, I'm certainly not as imaginative as Kornel and the dev team when it comes to world-building and novel content!

What I feel I *can* offer feedback on, though, is the minutiae that can create depth on the tactical level. Ideas that, I feel, will help the procedurally-generated content have emergent depth. As a dedicated DRL player, and someone who has handled micro-changes to balance games in the past, I feel like there's some potential for amazing improvements in the current content, and hope some of these ideas inspire changes that can really help improve the replayability of the game!

Since this is a long post, I've separated it into 2 sections - LOS-related ideas, and other suggestions. I've also broken each section up into suggestions. I figured this would be a lot less spammy than opening tons of different topics! I've noticed throughout the development of Jupiter Hell that Kornel has been open to suggestions from the playerbase (even going so far as describing is as 'a promise' from the devs to the community.) I hope you can understand that I'm throwing out ideas in the spirit of this open invitation; it's not something I'd ever be so cheeky as to do without there being such a strong invitation of player feedback! I just hope you can take these ideas in the spirit they are intended, rather than seeing them as a laundry list of features I'd selfishly want as though the game were my design baby!!! I'm not seeking specific implementation here, I'm just trying to inspire!

First, a comment about LOS:
One of the things that proved a real stumbling block for me when I was getting into Jupiter Hell was the way some weapons are completely blocked from attacking targets outside of your view. I originally typed quite a bit on this subject, but I'm going to put it behind tags at the bottom of this post, because it's not my motivation behind posting here. In short, I think hitting targets outside of LOS should at least be possible to avoid puzzled newcomers repetitively firing into the black expecting results. Making it for the most part impractical can be achieved by adding, like, an 80% miss chance for non-AOE weapons. I suggest this so that the strategies that are opened by making fog-firing impractical can still be enjoyed, while not confusing players with a weird unstoppable 'wall' at the edge of LOS!
The rest of this section is suggestions that would offer ways around this 'block' at the edge of LOS, and I think if ideas in these directions were implemented, it could make for some really interesting strategy playing around the limited firing range!

Suggestions to improve LOS-related strategy:
Regarding LOS, I think that (provided monster AI were fixed to retaliate to being attacked outside their vision) there are a lot of opportunities here to really make things interesting.

1. Hacking security cameras.
  I loved how the current hacking explores all kinds of different avenues as options for getting control over combat-ready units (droids and turrets). How about controlling some non-combat units though? Namely, cameras! I think it would be awesome if a player could hack the cameras on a level, giving a few areas of LOS outside of their own! Even if it was just 3-4 'circles' of LOS on a map it would really open up strategic options. I think this would be an awesome 'cheaper' option for thrifty hackers that just wanted that extra boost without spending all their multitools. Plus it has a really cool 'assassin/specialist operative' feel to it!

2. Drones with cameras.
'singalen' made a post suggesting that player-hacked drones share their LOS, and I think that's a really interesting idea! After a little thought it made sense to me that only units that had cameras onboard would be able to do this. I'm unsure whether all drones would have cameras - the bigger droids seem more like battle robots than reconnaissance tools. I'm sure, though, that the lighter drones would be likely to have cameras, and even the option of getting a weaponless 'recon drone' as a low-level helper could be awesome in this regard! Props to singalen for the suggestion!

3. Scopes.
  Scopes could be weapon perks, perhaps able to be added with accuracy mod packs, and attached by default on hunting and sniper rifles (like the wind-up perk is standard on chaingun class weapons). A scope could be an active skill, which takes a turn to 'deploy', and modifies the players LOS from the usual range:6 circle, to a range:9 cone (9 is just an example, a cone like the current shotgun blast area), for a turn. I feel this would be a great way that a player could use their intel and ranged weaponry without simply having an overpowered ranged attack. The fact that it would tank our DPS and restrict our peripheral vision could be balancing and immersive factors.

4. Flares.
  Flares that light up an area, extending our LOS a few tiles in their direction (by that I mean, stretching our LOS circle in the direction of the flare, rather than creating a new LOS circle around the flare - From my understanding of the way light levels function in JH this might not be simple, but if implemented another way it would strictly have to give a DISadvantage to the actor nearest the flare! Maybe something as simple as reducing the LOS of any actor within X tiles of the flare, and increasing the LOS of actors outside that area?) These would probably have to be more stackable than grenades, and found in packs of more than 1, to actually be viable finds, but they'd be a great opportunity for more strategic depth, imo.

5. Height.
   I know that height is currently uniform on single floors, and having a full 3d system with LOS restrictions and such would be a *huge* undertaking well beyond the scope of a feature suggestion like this, but perhaps a really simple form could be implemented? Something like a type of floor tile that looks like a 'platform', somewhat raised from surroundings, that extends LOS by 1 when a player is standing on it? The same platforms could reduce LOS by 1 tile if a player is not standing on them (so the LOS equation that determines whether a player can see a tile is given -1 if the tile is raised). This doesn't sound like it would to too massive to implement, and could open up the currently very 'fixed' feeling of LOS, while also opening further positional tactics to enrich the game's combat.
(On this subject, this might be reaching a little, but perhaps having a trait that allows players to climb on top of certain walls -  treasure chests, those destructible piles of boxes, explosive barrels etc?)
Whatever, climbing traits or not, I think just having a floor type that is slightly elevated that affects LOS could be really interesting.

6. Audio 'tells'.
  I appreciate that this is already somewhat implemented. Unfortunately, the strategy that is offered by reacting to sounds is somewhat hampered by the aforementioned inability to hit anything outside LOS. Still, even if it *were* possible, I feel that the sounds in JH are much less recognisable than they were in DRL. I think the monster audio was implemented in DRL *so* well that it's a real shame to lose it here - one of the most impressive measures of this feature, for me, is the fact that in really late stages of challenge for DRL, monsters can start to show up that don't make any sounds, and it gives them this feel like they're 'specialist' adversaries, really out to get the player. It actually took me a while to figure out what it was about nightmare imps that spooked me out so much, and when the penny dropped - their silence - it actually made me realise just how well DRL had done in immersing me through audio! For JH, I'd suggest that monster sounds be made more distinctive, I'm aware that distinctive sounds are there, but I wasn't for a long time; perhaps they're currently too quiet, or too rarely transmitted? Maybe this lack of hearing them is a product of not waiting on the spot for thousands of turns, and they just need to be emitted more often?
All of this, of course, would probably require some relaxation of the 'unable to hit outside LOS' rule in order to really offer direct interaction on the player's part, but even were it not possible to shoot outside LOS, I think the game could really benefit from some louder and more distinctive monster sound effects.

7. Enemy 'snipers'.
Of course, this 'interacting beyond LOS' section wouldn't be complete without giving the badguys ways to play with this! I'd suggest that certain monsters, namely those with long-range weaponry like artillery or rifles, be given another reaction besides just 'close in on the player'. Namely, let some monsters react to gunfire outside of their LOS by firing back! As a scripted reaction to being hit by a player outside of their LOS, or perhaps just a reaction to hearing gunfire nearby, enemies could be made to fire back at a player. This could function wonderfully to make a player wary about firing blindly even where ammo wasn't a concern! I'd think it a much better deterrent than just preventing hitting targets outside LOS, and I think it would feel fair, too: given that firing a weapon is sure to both betray a shooter's position and illuminate them!

Other ideas for strategic depth.
In addition to strictly LOS-related suggestions for increasing a player's tactical options, I'd also like to suggest a few other ideas:

a) AI reacting to sound:
  After implementing the pretty essential AI tweaks to make monsters respond to taking damage (at the moment they don't react at all!), it might be really good to have the monsters react to things like grenade explosions. I actually thought that this happened on a recent playthrough, but after testing it out a bit I think it was just chance! Either way, it might be extra-interesting to have different monsters react to explosions differently. Cowardly former humans might run *away* from a plasma grenade explosion, and Robots would likely run away from EMP blasts!
I also noticed that enemies certainly DO react to hearing doors being attacked. I'm unsure whether that's reacting to the sound of gunfire, specific to doors being attacked, or 1-time scripted events (there's certainly one in the military barracks); but I do like how it's a feature!

b) Doors.
  Remember Space Crusade? I used to play the videogame to it, and there was this one global event that gave the player the ability to remotely open and close doors. It was totally broken, because it could be used to shut the dreadnaught (the 'boss' in many missions) in a door as soon as it tried to leave its first room, killing it instantly!
Broken gameplay memories aside, being able to remotely control doors without actually standing next to them might be fun, but probably hard to implement... Perhaps a more balanced and easily implemented option would be that, after hacking the door controls, a player could be able to open or close doors without spending any time doing so? I think that, alone, would open up a lot of depth, since doors could them become advantageous to a player in certain situations! It would mean a player getting the first turn after opening a door, doors could be used to help kill turrets etc. This certainly sounds easy to implement, and it's a small enough effect to be given freely (ie no multitool costs) as an incentive for all characters to interact with terminals (because at the moment non-hackers actually only bother with them to open vaults).
Another idea would be for a hacker to be able to overide the door safety controls, allowing them to close doors when enemies are standing in them! This could, for example, deal some damage to a target and break the door (so that the action can't be repeated/abused).

c) Map hacking.
  I've watched a few videos, and one thing I've noticed is that nobody seems to pay multitools for the hacking feature to get a map of the level. Have you considered making this map feature stay between floors? If that feels too strong, how about making it so that, once the player has paid once (perhaps charge 2 or more multitools?), the feature costs 0 multitools for the rest of the current playthrough? That is, a player must still reach a terminal before getting their 'free' map, but the maps cost nothing for subsequent floors.

d) Exploration mode.
  Finally, I have a suggestion that occurred to me after playing JH 'unspoiled'. One thing I absolutely loved, although I appreciate it went against the design philosophy of the game, was the feeling of exploration and adventure when I started to see separate exits leading not to one-off special levels like DRL, but different paths! I had this great feeling of being 'lost' in a complex, until I realised that no staircase ever led away from the end of the game, thus effectively making it impossible to ever go in the wrong direction! I think it might make for an interesting 'angel of' game if you opened up the ability to go backwards! I appreciate that the level layouts probably aren't 'saved' so revisiting a previous floor (like in ADOM) would be impossible, but perhaps you could simply allow revisiting areas with new randomly generated levels, with a strict player-augmentation block (so a new randomly-generated level is created, but no XP is granted, and no medikits or stimpacks are generated for any floors with a depth less than or equal to the deepest a player has previously visited). This 'exploration mode' might be a fun equivalent to the 'angel of 100' game types, where a player could really go deep in exploring, without things getting too easy from stockpiling resources and experience.

I hope you devs can enjoy some of the suggestions in this list! I've put it together with the hopes that it can improve the replayability of what is shaping up to be an awesome game! Beyond anything else, though, *please* understand that I'm suggesting these out of a love for your products, not some kind of criticism! I *loved* DRL, it's among my favourite videogames of all time, and usually the first game I install on a new computer! I'm really passionate about your products, and would love to see Jupiter Hell match or exceed it on that list! If nothing else, see this list as a love-letter to your amazing game development, and a thankyou for everything you've done in this game, and your others! <3

Discussion 1: Firing outside of LOS being 'blocked':
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Discussion 2: Run-Wait
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 21