Chaosforge Forum

Other Roguelikes => AliensRL => Topic started by: AJBuwalda on September 20, 2012, 00:14

Title: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on September 20, 2012, 00:14
I think it is weird how DoomRL has a wiki but the obviously superior and more intense AlienRL has not. This is a travesty, ladies and gentlemen! *slams his desk* I say nay, we will not be denied!

But really, I would like to make a wiki for this game. But I need three questions answered before I commence with this project:

1. Where do I start such a wiki?
2. Where can I get stats to weapons, enemies and general items?
3. Whom can I ask questions and/or wants to write more the general strategy since I am quite new and might not be the best to ask about finishing the game (though I'm getting evermore close)

I would really like to do this, to give back to the community. It also helps that I work with numbers for a living. I am decently tech savvy, so that most likely will not produce many problems. Help me, help us!
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: skarczew on September 20, 2012, 05:03
Ad.2. Stats are in game, on character screen. They are somehow limited, but give pretty decent information about "how strong certain weapon could be".
Ad.3. You can question me. Actually, there are lots of my ideas and advices dispersed among many topics in this forum. Just search for them :) .
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on September 20, 2012, 05:31
First off, thanks for the help-offer, much appriciated. I actually did really well with my Tech the last time. You are also to thank for that. Secondly, It would be very helpfull if there is a way to distil the all the stats from the code with all their nuances. This would allow me to do what I do most of my days; look at the data and make comparisons.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on September 20, 2012, 06:12
I think it is weird how DoomRL has a wiki but the obviously superior and more intense AlienRL has not.

You can't even imagine how happy this opinion makes me :). I also think AliensRL has the potential to become a lot more interesting, engaging and deep game than DoomRL.

But really, I would like to make a wiki for this game. But I need three questions answered before I commence with this project:

1. Where do I start such a wiki?

I'm currently away from the action (at TGS Japan - yeah, I know, weird), but once I come back I can set up a wiki on the Forge itself, just like DoomRL has. 'Till then preplanning can be done.

However, please note that the next few versions of AliensRL will introduce many really fundamental changes, so before 0.9 (approx?) is released, each version is prone to require a lot of Wiki updates. Are you willing to help out?

2. Where can I get stats to weapons, enemies and general items?

I can provide the stats for the current version, but the next version plans a rewrite of the weapon damage/aim system, so this will be prone to change!

3. Whom can I ask questions and/or wants to write more the general strategy since I am quite new and might not be the best to ask about finishing the game (though I'm getting evermore close)

Spam the forum! Seriously :D. The least you'll get replies from skarczew and me, and AliensRL posts are especially welcome nowdays.

I would really like to do this, to give back to the community. It also helps that I work with numbers for a living. I am decently tech savvy, so that most likely will not produce many problems. Help me, help us!

And you've got the devs blessing :P.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on September 20, 2012, 06:28
I am very much willing to update the Wiki, even for the current version. I used to do this (http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/recognition/61673.html?type=1) back in the day. Crunching numbers is what I do. If you are willing to supply me with the stats and discription of the mechanics than I will make it a coherent Wiki. Once you re-write the code for something just hit me up and I'll work it into the Wiki.

Math = Love!
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Motorheadbanger on September 20, 2012, 08:48
I need your job, man. And your motivation.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Klear on September 20, 2012, 09:03
This is a noble endeavour. A place to get the hard facts on the game would be most useful. In DoomRL, a newbie can know what to expect from monsters and weapons if he's familiar with Doom, but it took me some time to learn the differences between the aliens. And I've certainly haven't even met all of them. So far I only saw one Elite, other than that I only met the basic types, I believe.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: skarczew on September 20, 2012, 09:28
So far I only saw one Elite, other than that I only met the basic types, I believe.
Ah, he is the nice one to be met, isn't he =) ? That shiny green armour, almost impenetrable for bullets...
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Klear on September 20, 2012, 09:36
Actually, he went down pretty fast, I think two or three salvos, possibly from the starting heavy weapon, whatever it is. I must have been lucky =)
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: skarczew on September 20, 2012, 09:38
Well, H&K MG is a decent weapon and can keep you alive, for some time.

The best is to meet Elite while holding some 9mm pistol in hand.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on September 20, 2012, 10:25
I need your job, man. And your motivation.
Than the Import/Export might be your thing. Booking transport and calculating costs most of the day. Fun and pays well.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on September 24, 2012, 05:28
Kornel, when do you think you'll be home?
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: thelaptop on September 24, 2012, 10:20
Kornel, when do you think you'll be home?
Give him around 48 hours.  He should be back by then.  =)
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on September 24, 2012, 12:23
Thanks man!
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Tavana on September 24, 2012, 21:13
Give him around 48 hours.  He should be back by then.  =)
I think this estimate may be generous. Also, he will still need to get rid of the hangover as well. Whiskey is not his drink.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on September 24, 2012, 23:10
I think this estimate may be generous. Also, he will still need to get rid of the hangover as well. Whiskey is not his drink.
Hangovers, the reminders of good times <3
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on October 01, 2012, 00:26
I am able and ready. If you need any of my information just hit me up.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Tavana on October 01, 2012, 03:16
With a bit of luck on the Super Typhoon side, the God Hand should be back in business and able to set up that wiki within days. Jet lag, hangovers, and weather permitting.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on October 01, 2012, 03:32
Cool, don't mean to sound impacient, but I looking forward to get cracking ;-)
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on October 04, 2012, 04:13
http://alien.chaosforge.org/wiki/ <- login as with DoomRL wiki (forum login with at least one post). You guys should decide on the general outlook probably first. Once at least some data will be present, I'll link it from the AliensRL page and make news about it!
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Tavana on October 05, 2012, 04:54
Finally! A reason to learn wiki-formatting!
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on October 05, 2012, 05:34
Everyone was prodding me about it, and now that it is finally up, nobody cares anymore? :/
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on October 05, 2012, 06:35
Everyone was prodding me about it, and now that it is finally up, nobody cares anymore? :/
I will be beginning next week, sir. Busy with getting containers to foreign countries and making money.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: skarczew on October 05, 2012, 06:50
Everyone was prodding me about it, and now that it is finally up, nobody cares anymore? :/
Do not panic, just let it flow...
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on October 05, 2012, 07:28
I've added some skeleton pages to help you people out!
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Game Hunter on October 05, 2012, 13:38
Everyone was prodding me about it, and now that it is finally up, nobody cares anymore? :/
I spent a good chunk of last night searching through the code to figure out how a lot of the game mechanics are formulated. Gonna need to spend some more time before I can start putting it in concise and understandable prose. I mean, sure, I can copy-paste what's already displayed in the game as much as the next guy, but there are very few of us who can actually write down, for instance, the process of an attack's accuracy from beginning to end. I'll have plenty of time for that this weekend, in any case.

EDIT: Just finished the data-dumps for Weapons and Items. Keep checking every so often for other additions!

EDIT 2: Added an "accuracy" article that explains exactly how weapons calculate their damage and hit chance. I'm guessing a lot of people are interested in this.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on October 06, 2012, 02:49
Which docs do you search and how? That would be helpful, so I can be helpful in kind!
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on October 06, 2012, 03:20
Which docs do you search and how? That would be helpful, so I can be helpful in kind!
Game Hunter has source access, so he can provide raw data. We need it refined, cross-linked, formated and added strategy info though.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: thelaptop on October 06, 2012, 06:50
Game Hunter has source access, so he can provide raw data. We need it refined, cross-linked, formated and added strategy info though.
I don't mind co-sponsoring another Strategi Wiki competition to help get that populated.  =)
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on October 08, 2012, 01:16
GH will be sending me information to help him get it all on-line. I'm also thinking of making comparisions between different guns.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: skarczew on October 08, 2012, 02:32
GH will be sending me information to help him get it all on-line. I'm also thinking of making comparisions between different guns.
Always feel free to ask :) .
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on October 08, 2012, 02:36
Always feel free to ask :) .
Sure will, Skar ;-)
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Sirdec on October 08, 2012, 04:03
Read the article about accuracy, thus a few points :

* If possible anyone besides the HW Specialist should take, basics in sidearms and primary from the start. The difference in "skill rating" between untrained and basic being *2*. Maths tell us that getting basic heavy weapons asap after finding a heavy weapon is a good idea too.

* Pain : i assume that when under pain the bonus to "skill rating" due to distance is conserved. Pain mostly happening in melee range, it's no wonder many players don't notice it's effects.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on October 08, 2012, 04:21
* Pain : i assume that when under pain the bonus to "skill rating" due to distance is conserved. Pain mostly happening in melee range, it's no wonder many players don't notice it's effects.
The effect can be quite significant. With a pain modifier of 3-5 it takes more shots to take down even a simple drone, where normally a few well-placed rounds will end those bugs. I have once emptied an entire clip (12 rounds) in one of those creeps only to need to reload and fire once more; I had it trained at the time as well. Pain is a big deal.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: skarczew on October 08, 2012, 12:27
* If possible anyone besides the HW Specialist should take, basics in sidearms and primary from the start. The difference in "skill rating" between untrained and basic being *2*. Maths tell us that getting basic heavy weapons asap after finding a heavy weapon is a good idea too.
That (taking Sidearms and Primary) is pretty consistent with my strategy as well.

* Pain : i assume that when under pain the bonus to "skill rating" due to distance is conserved. Pain mostly happening in melee range, it's no wonder many players don't notice it's effects.
They do not notice its effects till it is too late :> .
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on October 08, 2012, 13:55
They do not notice its effects till it is too late :> .
Oh YASD, how we loath you :-P
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Game Hunter on October 09, 2012, 09:37
If there's any game mechanics info in particular anyone wants to know, reply so I can prioritize. Going through the game code can take a while, so it'll be some time before everything is added to the Wiki. Perhaps more importantly, I don't care about the order of stuff going up, so I'm more than happy to work on whatever people want to see first
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: skarczew on October 09, 2012, 16:49
If there's any game mechanics info in particular anyone wants to know, reply so I can prioritize. Going through the game code can take a while, so it'll be some time before everything is added to the Wiki. Perhaps more importantly, I don't care about the order of stuff going up, so I'm more than happy to work on whatever people want to see first
I just wonder whether it is needed to put hard data (like the exact formulas for the damage), e.g:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Most of such stuff I won't remember. Instead of it, I will keep in memory that M3A submachine is a very good weapon, FN SCAR is decent, and MK 88 combat pistol is mediocre.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: thelaptop on October 09, 2012, 18:51
Probably requires some fine-tuning.  But having hard data in is a good start.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on October 10, 2012, 01:22
Probably requires some fine-tuning.  But having hard data in is a good start.
That and we'll need to rework it after the update, anyway.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Lomaster on October 10, 2012, 02:50
I swear i found shotguns not only in civilian tower but also in engineering and storage.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: skarczew on October 10, 2012, 04:35
I swear i found shotguns not only in civilian tower but also in engineering and storage.
You are right. But by "civilian only" the Wiki means the following towers: Civilian, Medical, Storage, Engineering.
By "military towers" the Wiki means: Military, Security, Main.

It is simply the "type", not the "name" of the tower.

Yet another thing to be clarified ...

EDIT: Actually, it is written there:

Quote
If a weapon can be found in a "civilian only" location, this means that it will not be generated in the Main, Security, or Military towers, and is especially common in the Storage tower.
If a weapon can be found in a "military only" location, this means that it will only be generated in the Main, Security, or Military towers: these weapons are rare in the Main tower but common in the Military tower.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Lomaster on October 10, 2012, 04:48
Oh. That makes sense.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Game Hunter on October 10, 2012, 09:40
I just wonder whether it is needed to put hard data (like the exact formulas for the damage), e.g: [[example about distance calculation for skill rating]]
Most of such stuff I won't remember.
Remembering the exact formulas isn't entirely necessary, but I can remember the results of such formulas and keep them in mind during combat. Using your example and the explanation of stray chance with distance, we can figure this out:

Distance1234567891011
Skill Rating+3+2+1-0-0-0-0-1-1-1-2
Stray Distance+0+0+0+0+1+1+1+1+2+2+2

Using this information, we can conclude that the ideal shooting distance is 4 tiles away, although most cases will handle okay in the 4-7 tile range (since bullet stray only happens if if roll rating beats skill rating entirely). In short, you never want enemies getting too close: far distances are more reasonable than near ones, with the best accuracy occurring at a happy medium. This is very different from DoomRL, which is the very simple "closer is better" formula.

Now, I could have simply put the table down, and astute learners could come up with formulae that imitate the results. For the time being, however, I think it's good to see everything for what it is. There's plenty of time to parse it into more meaningful tidbits.

EDIT: table fixed, thanks skarczew
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: skarczew on October 10, 2012, 17:06
Remembering the exact formulas isn't entirely necessary, but I can remember the results of such formulas and keep them in mind during combat. Using your example and the explanation of stray chance with distance, we can figure this out:

Distance1234567891011
Skill Rating-3-2-1-0-0-0-0-1-1-1-2
Stray Distance+0+0+0+0+1+1+1+1+2+2+2

Using this information, we can conclude that the ideal shooting distance is 4 tiles away, although most cases will handle okay in the 4-7 tile range (since bullet stray only happens if if roll rating beats skill rating entirely). In short, you never want enemies getting too close: far distances are more reasonable than near ones, with the best accuracy occurring at a happy medium. This is very different from DoomRL, which is the very simple "closer is better" formula.

Now, I could have simply put the table down, and astute learners could come up with formulae that imitate the results. For the time being, however, I think it's good to see everything for what it is. There's plenty of time to parse it into more meaningful tidbits.
There is one problem, though.

My empirical gameplay experience shows that the best is to shot at point blank. No 4, 5, 6, or  whatever distance you got according to the formulas. The best results are at point blank (1?).
With a decent weapon and some training I am able to make bugs hit the floor in one burst, mostly. The same bugs take 1-3 (2 on average) bursts if I would start from 4-7 range.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Game Hunter on October 10, 2012, 18:19
Looks like I read a minus when it was a plus. My bad!

I was actually starting to like the idea that shooting too close throws off your aim (maybe not as severe as three tiles away, but melee distance messing with aim could be something).
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: AJBuwalda on October 11, 2012, 00:12
Looks like I read a minus when it was a plus. My bad!

I was actually starting to like the idea that shooting too close throws off your aim (maybe not as severe as three tiles away, but melee distance messing with aim could be something).
I would like a knife, too. Just to give people a chance in hell when out of ammo... Although just a slight one!
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: skarczew on October 11, 2012, 06:39
I was actually starting to like the idea that shooting too close throws off your aim (maybe not as severe as three tiles away, but melee distance messing with aim could be something).
The thing that is messing, is the Pain - thats enough, imo. However, we could also add some acid blood interaction with environment (and a player). But ...there are lots of things that are to be implemented - no need for haste here, just let it evolve naturally.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Moonshine Fox on January 16, 2017, 23:41
So, it says I have to use my forum login but when I try to I get this:

Quote
Unable to find SMF group(s) Chaoslord, Chaosknight, Chaosite, Marketing/PR Ops, AliensRL Plot Writer, Old Chaos Guard set in LocalSettings.php!
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: thelaptop on January 17, 2017, 00:57
So, it says I have to use my forum login but when I try to I get this:


Yeah, KK changed some stuff recently.  Let's hope he sees this and does something about it.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Rimmon on January 17, 2017, 02:00
So, it says I have to use my forum login but when I try to I get this:

It should be fixed now. Thanks for reporting.
Title: Re: AlienRL Wiki: How do we start one?
Post by: Moonshine Fox on January 17, 2017, 03:51
It should be fixed now. Thanks for reporting.
Oh, cool, thanks!