Chaosforge Forum

DoomRL => Modding => Topic started by: yaflhdztioxo on November 23, 2012, 06:34

Title: WolfRL
Post by: yaflhdztioxo on November 23, 2012, 06:34
( (
( (
( (
( (
( (
( (
( (
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: ParaSait on November 23, 2012, 13:58
Me gusta.
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: Klear on November 25, 2012, 10:41
Very nice. It needs BJ though, not doomguy =P
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: yaflhdztioxo on November 25, 2012, 10:53
Klear:  Feel free to draw him.  That is easily 90% of the work since I'm no Derek Yu :)

( (
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: Klear on November 25, 2012, 14:40
There is an in-game ( sprite, used for ends of levels. There should be a way to export it from the game and use it as a basis...

I'll see what I can do.

Edit: Also, those challenges look cool as hell.
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: yaflhdztioxo on November 25, 2012, 15:47
Most of the challenges are the same, only renamed and with new flavor text (and occasionally mod appropriate tweaks).  Only Oracle, Explosions, and the three weapons-only challenges are noticeably different.
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: Klear on November 25, 2012, 16:04
OK, here's what I came up with. The head is unmodified from Wolfenstein 3d (not even scaled down), the body is recolored blue SS guy from your third screenshot - BJ is unarmed on the game sprite, and that would not do. Also, This way it fits (I hope) with what you have so far.

Edit: Forgot the shadow... give me a sec...

Edit 2: Done, plus an edited screenshot of how it should look in-game.

Edit 3: I think the gun needs to be edited a bit to make it different from the template. I'll leave it like this for now though. Maybe tomorrow evening.
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: yaflhdztioxo on November 26, 2012, 21:14
Today I present BJ and his magic technicolor murderbag.
( (
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: Klear on November 27, 2012, 02:15
Wow... that is a lot of weapons and different ammo types...
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: yaflhdztioxo on December 05, 2012, 22:22
( (
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: Equality on December 05, 2012, 23:44
where and when we can download a development/alpha version for testing? :)
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: yaflhdztioxo on December 06, 2012, 06:00
The PLAN is to have the first WolfRL release at or soon after the DoomRL 0997 release.  Realistically, the CONSOLE version MAY be ready by this time but will probably not be well balanced (KK's had several years to get DoomRL's balance reasonable, I'm on a tighter deadline).  The graphics will probably not be ready by December; we'll play that by ear.

Currently TC support doesn't exist so only devs can run it (not that any do--DoomRL 0997 is keeping them quite busy).  An official beta period is unlikely since it is always coupled to the engine in SVN, but I'm not limited to any specific release schedule--Once 0997 hits and everyone's had their fill of that we can pump out releases until everyone's happy.
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: yaflhdztioxo on December 15, 2012, 19:14
( (
I predicted WolfGuy wouldn't make it ten steps before the AoD eviscerated him.
I was wrong.  He made it 11.
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: yaflhdztioxo on January 11, 2013, 20:57
It's been quiet, so I present an update:

( (
( (

Full TCs have been pushed til next release which probably won't be out until after Spring.  A few nice features should come with the delay though so I can't complain too much.

Level ideas welcome as are pixel artists better than I.
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: Trar on March 22, 2013, 07:51
First off, I like the idea. Wolfenstein 3D was simpler than DOOM, but it too holds lots of potential for becoming more complex. I also like the variety of weapons available, although they could be re-named to be more historically accurate (the paratroop rifle is the FG42 and the thompson is the Thompson M1A1, for example). However, I think the heads of BJ and the SS soldiers look too big.

As for suggestions? I would recommend level styles/progression based on the original game: escaping from Castle Wolfenstein, looting treasure and killing Nazis as you go, obviously culminating with the fight with Hans Grosse. Maybe pushwall secret rooms are feasible? I would suggest a number of randomized levels for each level of the castle, like in DOOMRL. After you escape Wolfenstein the next episode can be modeled after the 2nd episode from Wolfenstein, and so on for the third and Spear of Destiny. Maybe levels based on Return to Castle Wolfenstein are too far-fetched at present, but I see no reason not to have enemies and weapons from that game and the 2009 game as well if they're not already in the mod in one form or another.

This is still great and you have my support for this.
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: Radagast on March 22, 2013, 14:22
very very nice !!

Damn it I loved this game back in the day. DO want it in RL form too. :)
Hope to see decent release of this soon enough!!

Can't say I ever loved in another game to kill germans so much. :P:P (no offense !)
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: yaflhdztioxo on March 22, 2013, 15:27
WolfRL is well beyond the concept stage ;)

It is at the stage where I need testers and people who can come up with good random levels.  I also need a few engine features KK promised to do the balancing.  And I've moved back to non-TC modules for a bit while I wait on that (the mod server doesn't populate itself after all).
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: VANDAM on March 23, 2013, 00:26
You need testers?
Sign me in!
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: yaflhdztioxo on March 23, 2013, 06:28
Unfortunately my requirements are a bit high.  You USED to need svn access since it required the newest build of DoomRL; for now at least we can use the current one *but* as those 0998 features I need get added in I can expect that you'll need at minimum beta access.  Since you'd be working with the raw Lua files it would be very helpful if you could edit them.  And of course it's not a beta--it's an alpha.  It's not feature complete, even though it is close, so testing would be a radically different beast.

I do that sort of work on IRC so if you are interested in alpha testing WolfRL that's where you need to go.
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: Trar on March 25, 2013, 05:41
I don't have the beta, and I probably won't for a while, so that counts me out. I'd still like to know how many of my proposed features are already in the game in one form or another.
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: yaflhdztioxo on March 25, 2013, 16:01
Okay fine, here's a big document I wrote that is still mostly up-to-date.

Code: [Select]
WolfRL design document:

WolfRL is a total conversion of the roguelike title DoomRL.  It has been in development since before the existence of the modding sandbox and has been a driving force behind DoomRL modding ever since.

DoomRL modding was an intended feature long before the sandbox came into existence as the Modding subforum can attest, and WolfRL was always intended to be the first TC available when full modding would be available to the public.  The mod itself has two different origins.  Conceptually Kornel intended to have a simple TC with ten floors and a fight against a boss (Hans Grosse) that would demonstrate the basics of DoomRL modding and serve as a base for future mods.  In a parallel development add1 had begun developing his own DoomRL TC based on a custom WAD decrypter/encrypter and decompiled LUA scripts.  This TC was based on Wolfenstein as well.  Acting without any guidance or approval from Kornel the intent was to release a compiled WAD along with sources that could be plugged in to a DoomRL install and kick off modding, which by that point was viewed as an unlikely future feature by the community.  Eventually add1 and Kornel compared notes, the existence of the sandbox in 0991 made modding a reality, and pressure to release a near-contraband kickoff mod subsided.  Add1's WolfRL module superceded the original conceptual plan but adopted its intended role as a demonstration and springboard.

Content Description:
WolfRL is an extension of DoomRL and will apply the same principles that made DoomRL great to the WolfRL source materials.  Many of the elements port in the same manner though with different sources the end products will often be different.  Fight through six episodes of guts and glory, then top it off with the 25 episode Spear of Destiny campaign.  Most of the content and themes will be based on the regular and SoD sources.  The mac ports, which do not have any unique content but DO have different resources, have also been used, as have the Lost Levels (which DO have new content).  Occasional influence from RtCW, Wolf2009, and WolfensteinRPG are also present, though in much smaller quantities.

Target Analysis:
We have two audiences: the players and the developers.  Players will obviously be roguelike fans who are familiar with DoomRL's basic mechanics; a tutorial will not be necessary.  With the introduction of the mod portal technical sophistication is not required either.  Developers on the other hand will want well documented, clean code that if possible mimics the DoomRL scripts in style, although I make a point of omitting certain shorthands that can be very confusing for a person new to Lua.  Keeping the code clean and compartmentalized means that egregious hacks are to be discouraged and reusable modules are to be encouraged.

Feature Comparison:
WolfRL may be similar to DoomRL but there are some very key differences in design that will give it a distinctive feel.  Here I will go over every major component to DoomRL and compare them.
* General:
    WolfRL favors realism.  That may seem odd given the source material but it is a deliberate design decision that has been part of its development from the beginning.  Realism often conflicts with balance and enjoyment making this a tricky balancing issue; sometimes realism is fudged for gameplay reasons but far less so than most games.
* Menu:
    The menu for WolfRL differs from DoomRL in the expected manner (different name and text) but I'd also like to expand on it as a mod should.  The player has already played DoomRL and knows what that menu is like.  My menu is more dynamic; different music in certain circumstances, more assertive text, etc.
* Player Setup:
    The player is largely unchanged aside from flavor texts and the like.  Same klasses, same traits.  This is too critical to balance to really alter.  Difficulty has been condensed from five to four and all difficulties are now permitted in challenges.  I hope to reduce instakills too; running around half-cocked is half the fun of both Doom and Wolf afterall.
* Unlockables:
    In the classic twist between basic and hardcore gamer, DoomRL unlocks things easily in order to let you have your fun.  WolfRL will make you EARN your fun--access to the main campaign will be restricted (if possible--currently it isn't) until you've placed well in the episodes.  It's like old school DoomRL where you had to learn AoB before you could move on to the fun modes.  Interestingly enough I intend to have all badges be possible and I wish to encourage creative use of the challenges by allowing badges in double challenge modes (and by not having double challenge badges).  The difference is you'll NEED to earn them, whereas in DoomRL badges are largely unnecessary and several badges are considered downright impossible.
* Campaigns:
    One of the biggest changes is that DoomRL has one campaign while I have seven.  Each episode gets a mini-ten level campaign with one secret and one boss.  Each campaign is designed to be distinct and the size is meant to be coffeebreak speeds.  The seventh campaign is a proper 25 level campaign that mimics SoD.
* Challenges:
    I do NOT like standard weapon challenges; that's something you can do on your own without anything there to enforce it.  But I do like special weapon challenges.  This ties into unlockables as well.  Brute gives you extra resistances; Marksman gives you early access to an exotic weapon and ammo; shotgun gives you access to shotguns which do not exist in the main campaign!  In addition to the rebranded DoomRL challenges that were still appropriate I included Explosions, Oracle, and reactivated D&D.  There's also an infinite levels archangel for people that like that sort of thing; no other archangel is planned.
* Level Generation:
    Although the campaigns will have different level generation preferences the guts of level design is largely unchanged, and the changes that do exist are largely inconsequential preference issues (such as my love for multicolored barrels).  Visually however level design has been altered with the addition of flair as well as the inclusion of multiple wall types (and multiple sprite sets to go along with them).  Flair tiles have no practical purpose (though they can give away room designs); they just look nice.
* Events:
    Events were adapted from DoomRL when possible and were not altered much beyond that.
* Mods:
    Mods have been kept unaltered.  I cannot think of a way to 'port' them conceptually--they just can't be made realistic even for very loose definitons of the word.  But they are way too fun to throw out completely.
* Mod Arrays:
    Arrays were adapted from DoomRL when possible though I kept the old style design of the mod order affecting the end product (because I really liked that about old assemblies).  Unfortunately a lot of assemblies simply cannot be ported, even with very loose guidelines for 'realistic'.  Ideas for new assemblies are desired.
* Affects:
    In additon to the DoomRL standard effects I've added three new ones that are given to the player through crystals.  They are based on Wolf2009 and grant VERY large boosts to speed, power, or defense for a very short period of time.  The intent is to make them essentially a 'get out of trouble free' card that can be used to bypass the occasional tricky boss when in a tight spot.  They don't work on the final level though and they should be rare--one or two per game.
* Beings:
    Beings is obviously a major change from DoomRL for several reasons--almost every enemy has a firearm and almost every enemy is flesh and bone.  The weapon issue means that players can expect steady weapon progression as newer enemies are encountered--discussed elsewhere--while the human issue means that we either bend our realism rule or make everyone have 10hp.  Obviously we went with the former; beings get more HP as their danger increases.
    Beings are more varied in WolfRL than in other games, both in terms of type (each standard Wolf category has two variants while the expanded enemy types can have three) and in stats (enemies can get small health or equipment boosts/detriments to give them some random flavor).
    Every regular enemy has a nightmare variant that has more health, a red aura / color scheme, and a damage bonus.  Nightmare enemies should never appear in the main campaign.
* Items:
    Many items are adopted from DoomRL but healing items do not go above 100% except in very special circumstances (this probably necessitates a revisit of the badass and survivalist traits.  Phase devices are no longer random drops; they are reward items.  Treasure has been added.  It serves no practical value since there is no longer a lives system, but players will probably collect it anyway with greed as the only motivating factor.  The only new items that exist for non-effect reasons are the crystals discussed in Affects.
* Weapons:
    A major difference.  Weapons are portrayed relatively realistically.  This means the pistols have eight rounds, the rifles punch holes through armor, and as you encounter new enemies old weapons lose their effectiveness.  This favors a system of temporary usefulness--hanging on to your 9mm pistol by end game and slapping a few mods on it isn't nearly as effective as in DoomRL; instead you must upgrade your weapon as enemies drop them.  Another major difference--no shotguns.  This greatly changes the early and mid-game scouting/knockback strategies.
    Exotics are derived from British and American weapons.  They are more powerful because, well, they are rarer; we handwave that by saying BJ is more 'experienced' with them.  Since most use custom ammunition we must supply the player with plenty on pickup and they are largely useless when they run out (though having a custom weapon makes an ammo basin more likely to drop that ammo type).  This slides them into our 'weapon upgrade, temporary usefulness' model nicely enough--by the time you run out of 45s for your Thompson you'll be using rifles anyway.  Having and using the exotic weapon in the meantime makes for an easier floor or two until you run out, then you discard it.
    Uniques are where all the funky energy weapons of later Wolfenstein lore can be placed.  Again though, they have limited ammo.
    Lastly, as a special note, since the chaingun is guaranteed in the main campaign by floor 6, it is NOT actually very good--long reload, long fire time, rare ammo for that area, and the STG looks better by comparison.  That is all intentional.
* Special Levels:
    Special levels and bosses are where I pull out the stops AND where I'm much more willing to use egregious hacks.  Each level is meant to be unique and most of the bosses are also meant to be distinct as well.  They should make the episodes more memorable and should chain into three narratives in the SoD campaign--5 special levels, 4 specials with TLL influences / bosses, and 5 inline levels with the SoD bosses.  They are also intertwined--completing one special level may impact future levels down the line, similar to the Arena, Unchained Court, and Vaults.  These sorts of level adjustments should serve to make the future level HARDER--if the player beat an earlier special they're probably in a better spot than if they bypassed it completely.

Experimental Features:
A lives system was considered a desirable feature up until the midway point.  KK is adamantly opposed to it and balancing the system would be difficult so it has been removed.  I would like to integrate it in some limited manner but how I do not know.

WolfRL needs to be in a releasable state by the time full TC comes around.  Currently that is scheduled for March 2013; if you believe that though I have some beachfront property in Nevada to sell you.  Realistically the goal is to have a sustained TC beta period before properly releasing both DoomRL TC support and WolfRL; in order to not coincide with a regular beta period it would be ideal to have a special TC beta build immediately after DoomRL 0997 is released.  During this beta period the final cleanup, balance, and refinement can be made.
Proper G-mode support is hoped for but may not be practical.  The same holds true for ascii art enemies.  Both would require an additional resource or a prolonged delay as both are very time consuming and very dull activities; burning out is a real risk.
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: Trar on March 27, 2013, 09:15
Read it. I like the realistic weapon design (and newer-game guns) and episode progression. I am very excited to shoot Nazis and loot treasure! You really should add some sort of treasure counter though, just for kicks. And since DOOMRL has no secrets (unnecessary and very hard to implement i feel), I'm okay with them not being in WolfRL either.

I still have a couple of questions: Do you get to name the Wolfguy? And what kind of music will be included?
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: yaflhdztioxo on March 27, 2013, 15:44
Yes you can name your character, just like you can name Doomguy in DoomRL.  That would be very hard to remove actually.  The music is just the standard Wolf3D tracks ripped to ogg.  No remixes.
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: Trar on March 29, 2013, 06:29
Good, good.
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: Evilpotatoe on March 29, 2013, 07:40
And since DOOMRL has no secrets [...]
You should try the "Inferno" module, it's implemented.

Well, it's one of the few aspecs I don't like in this module... but it's still an excellent one, including new enemies, levels, items...
Btw, since has just been released, it isn't ported yet, but it's worth returning to, or waiting a few months :)
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: Trar on August 22, 2016, 14:02
I've been jonesing for this recently. Hope it's coming along well.
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: yaflhdztioxo on December 07, 2016, 19:34
With DoomRL being open sourced I have resumed this.  It has its own repository on GitHub.  Now that makewad and debug doomrl builds are available to the masses it is possible--not fun but possible--to play WolfRL in its current state.  With luck as WolfRL needs features I can add them to DoomRL's engine.
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: singalen on December 08, 2016, 15:47
Can you share a build instructions for Valkyrie? Ideally without Lazarus, with fpc only?
Title: Re: WolfRL
Post by: yaflhdztioxo on December 08, 2016, 17:07
Valkyrie does not have build instructions.  Free Pascal doesn't work like that I'm told.  Valkyrie simply compiles alongside DoomRL.

We're still working out a good set of build instructions.  There's a lot of back-and-forth on Github about that.  You can also try IRC.