Chaosforge Forum
DoomRL => Discussion => Topic started by: jake250 on March 10, 2012, 15:04
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I'm aware the game doesn't have any. Which is a shame.
But here it is: I like to cheat. I like to play -however the hell I want-. There's lots of things and ways to play that I'm -much more interested- in when it comes to DoomRL, and thats not "playing normally", which I find tedious.
The modding tutorials are frankly, to me, completely incomprehensible, and don't seem to point out at the possibility of cheats, just simple additions. I could be completely wrong, mind you. I didn't even see if there was a way to modify things that are in the game right now.
I don't really know what to say. I just want to cheats, and I can't. The game also used to be easier to crack with CheatEngine, but now values jump around even more than before. And I'm not skilled enough for trainers anyway. Sure, I can make myself invincible easily, but thats not fun.
Why no cheat support?
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Because Kornel doesn't like cheaters and he punishes them for their sins! (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,1767.msg14019.html#msg14019)
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The modding tutorials are frankly, to me, completely incomprehensible
If there's anything I can do to improve their comprehensibility, please let me know! I wrote those quite a while ago and have gotten extremely little feedback since, so any suggestions or criticisms are greatly appreciated. (If it's because you don't have much of a background in coding, however, I'm not sure how much I can help with that: we'd probably need to talk in IRC so I have an idea of how to express things from a non-coder's perspective.)
Why are there no cheats? Admittedly we could take the time to do that, especially with the drop-down console we have for debugging (mind you this is only useful at the moment if you have extensive knowledge of the game's API). On the other hand, there are tons of other priorities right now: additionally, the game isn't actually done yet, so there are plenty of little things here and there that we don't want getting ripped apart just yet, mostly because they haven't been available to anyone at all.
It's an idea that can be implemented, though. I expect, if nothing else, that the final release of DoomRL will have some debug/cheat mode that players can access. (It'll just get a "no awards" tacked on, much like NetHack's wizard mode.)
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Well, I enjoy playing DoomRL without cheats as much as I do with, so I don't see any reason to add cheating support to the game.
I think it would eat the precious time of our hard working developers, and will just simply break the fun from playing!
Actually, the most common cheating thing I've found in many rogue-like games, is the wishing thing. For me, that's game breaking, because once tried cheating, it'll be difficult to get out of it. I say NO to cheating in DoomRL, it's good as it is.
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Well, if you just eventually unlock the debugging console and tell us how to vaguely use it, that would be great.
And yeah, I have little background in coding, I'm not sure how you could improve it either. I don't mean to blame the tutorial, just that the entire thing seemed too complex for me to get into. I could look into existing mods to learn, I've done it in many other games. To be honest, I simply didn't try yet. The tutorials scared me.
And to Mahreen: I think I promote self-control over limiting possibilities. I've always had no trouble drawing a line between cheats and no cheats. Both are completely separate experiences.
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Definitely no cheats. The game is very, very playable on the easier difficulties. Besides, using cheats cheapens the game, and it makes those wins much less important. When you win at a really difficult game, you feel really good about your accomplishment. With cheats, that's gone. Please, don't move more towards mainstream games, and don't ever put in cheats. Roguelikes are supposed to be brutally hard, and I believe that putting in lower difficulties at all is quite the compromise. Just try playing ADOM if you don't understand what I mean.
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You guys are so boring.
Or well, would you prefer to start god knows how many games to try very specific pieces of equipment (cRuel Number God, remember?) with specific builds?
Cheating isn't always about winning, is what I'm saying.
Talking about modding, any plans on including OBLIGE-like modding support? (Actually only the latter of the below example)
By that I mean defining new/modifying existing actors (Not OBLIGE), and then defining the RNG stuff. (Min. DLevel, frequency, etc.)
Because single-level mods are kind of useless as mods, honestly.
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If you want to test stuff and just muck around with various equipment and builds, there's already a mod that lets you do just that. Granted, it doesn't really let you do it in a real game environment, but still.
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If cheating will be accepted, and the developers or somebody else will add cheating to DoomRL, then at least do not make games with cheating count in any way.
By that, I mean no scores, no achievements, no assemblies, no nothing. But as a reward, you will get NOTHING but a huge text saying "CHEATING BASTARD"
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To be frank, I kinda wish there was a way to start the game with two Grammaton Cleric Berretas, Gun-Kata and a lot of bullets.
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Heh, I'd love to start with a nano super shotgun. Can you say cakewalk? Especially with Shottyhead and extra finesse...
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If one were so inclined I don't think it would be hard to write a separate cheating program as it doesn't look like doomrl encrypts it's data in memory like ADOM does. That said this is a roguelike first and doom second, cheats really defeat the entire point of a roguelike.
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Speaking of cheating in Doom, does anyone else have IDSPISPOPD (the wall clipping cheat) forever burnt into their memory? I haven't played actual Doom in years yet that code is always at the tip of my tongue.
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Yeah, this, dnkroz in Duke, buckfast in GTA 1 and aiculedssul in Mortal Kombat.
I have already forgotten the way to cheat in minesweeper, though. It was something with lot of Zs and Xs, I think.
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Speaking of cheating in Doom, does anyone else have IDSPISPOPD (the wall clipping cheat) forever burnt into their memory? I haven't played actual Doom in years yet that code is always at the tip of my tongue.
Smashing Pumpkins Into Small Piles of Putrid Debris.
It's so ingrained I even remember what it's an acronym for.
Also, idchoppers is the best cheat code ever.
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dncornholio! Works the same as dnkroz, but so much more awesome!
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Ke-ke-ke. You`ll never be able to cheat in DoomRL, I think.
Formal cheat codes don`t implented, memory hacking (Cheat Engine) doesn`t work...
We just need hacks. c:
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Neither DoomRL, nor any other ChaosForge will have a normally accessible cheat mode implemented. Cheats destroyed my fun in many games, and I'm not letting that happen in mine.
Developers and core testers will always have access to the debug console, but that one, while actually included in the common build, wont start without full lua code.
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Smashing Pumpkins Into Small Piles of Putrid Debris.
It's so ingrained I even remember what it's an acronym for.
Also, idchoppers is the best cheat code ever.
Awesome! I've been wondering what it stood for.
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Yeah, this, dnkroz in Duke, buckfast in GTA 1 and aiculedssul in Mortal Kombat.
setting your name to iamthelaw makes cops ignore you in GTA 1
GABBAGABBAHEY in Descent
Start Commander Keen 4 with "/nowait", press F10+G for godmode, F10+J to fly (and most other letters do something as well)
I have already forgotten the way to cheat in minesweeper, though. It was something with lot of Zs and Xs, I think.
XYZZY (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xyzzy)
(A hollow voice says "plugh")
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setting your name to iamthelaw makes cops ignore you in GTA 1
Why would you want that? Unlimited flamethrower fuel is so much better =)
Also, that reminded me of "bangbangbang" in GTA 3, IIRC.
Also, Prince megahit is a classic.
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memory hacking (Cheat Engine) doesn`t work...
*cough, cough* This may be true for the current version (I haven't really wanted to muck around with that quite yet), but I know in versions past it was entirely possible. I've made and tested shotguns that shoot 16 shells a round at 1d1 just for the hell of it, I've made a pistol with a bigger blast radius than the BFG... pretty much the only thing that can't be messed with in memory is health, and that's more because I can't quite pinpoint how many bytes the data uses than anything else (If you use too few bytes, you still die once you hit negative health)
EDIT: Incidentally, weapons with a blast radius of 1 were useless in the last version because of how knockback worked. Can anyone verify if this is still the case? I know one of the rare pistols as well as the Revenant Launcher would be majorly affected by this...
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Also, Prince megahit is a classic.
But the game feels so much better when you play without cheats. Try it - you only need 60 minutes to complete it :) .
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Done that. It was indeed a great feeling. Then tried it years later again, drunk, bragging to my friends that I'll do it and ran out of time in the penultimate level. That sucked. I have to do that again some time.
Edit: Also at one point I used prince megahit and only used the cheats to make the whole thing upside down and the one that removes everything except sprites (pretty much stuff that moves). That way I beat the first level, which I had memorized at that time. Cheating to make games harder FTW =)
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Done that. It was indeed a great feeling. Then tried it years later again, drunk, bragging to my friends that I'll do it and ran out of time in the penultimate level. That sucked. I have to do that again some time.
Edit: Also at one point I used prince megahit and only used the cheats to make the whole thing upside down and the one that removes everything except sprites (pretty much stuff that moves). That way I beat the first level, which I had memorized at that time. Cheating to make games harder FTW =)
I did use megahit to learn how to play on specific levels. After that I completed the game manually ...
It impressed me that the levels were so well designed that I ended the game with 2-3 minutes left. The game had even some small margin for mistakes...