Chaosforge Forum

DoomRL => Post Mortem => Topic started by: Sereg on May 03, 2013, 14:24

Title: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: Sereg on May 03, 2013, 14:24
Yep, I'm still trying this one, after seeing a mortem where someone succeeded but accidentally had it on HNTR.

Made it through the anomaly with a lucky double berserk pack and a chainfiring session from the upper edge of the first room. Not much of a problem through Deimos - avoided all special levels after Arena and Court like the plague, since I have no idea how to do them; my one attempt at Phobos Lab on a previous run got me instakilled when the doors at the back end of the acid lake opened up. Made it down to Babel, didn't expect a problem since I had a microlauncher and a hell of a lot of rockets... but nope, Cyberdemon just blasts apart my cover and then me. Didn't stand a chance, especially with no possibility to heal. How does one go about acquiring the Cyberdemon's head? Seems impossible...

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Nathan, level 7 Arch-Vile Captain Scout,
 was splattered by a Cyberdemon at the Tower of Babel.
 He survived 57091 turns and scored 56009 points.
 He played for 49 minutes and 22 seconds.
 He wasn't afraid to be hurt plenty.

 He killed 344 out of 371 hellspawn. (92%)
 He held his right to remain violent.
 He was an Angel of Max Carnage!
 He was also an Angel of Masochism!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 11
  Levels visited   : 2
  Levels completed : 2

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  UAC Star (silver cluster)
  Hell Champion Medal

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  #..........................................................
  #..........................................................
  #..................................................###.....
  #..................................................###.....
  #..................................................###.....
  #.....#....................................................
  #.....#....C.....................................###.......
  #......#.........................................###.......
  #X...............................................###.......
  #....................#.............###......###............
  #..................................###......###............
  #..................................###......###........###.
  #......................................................###.
  #...........###...........##................###........###.
  #...........###............#................###............
  #...........###............#..................#............
  #..........................................................
  #..........................................................
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 0/50   Experience 19453/7
  ToHit Ranged +12  ToHit Melee +12  ToDmg Ranged +2  ToDmg Melee +2

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Scout

    Hellrunner       (Level 1)
    Son of a bitch   (Level 2)
    Intuition        (Level 2)
    Triggerhappy     (Level 2)

  Int->Int->SoB->SoB->TH->TH->HR->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   red armor [2/4] (37%)
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   micro launcher (5d5) [1/1]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   plasteel boots [2/2] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   chainsaw (4d6)

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] gatling gun (1d7)x6 [60/60]
    [b] blue armor [2/2] (100%)
    [c] blue armor [2/2] (86%)
    [d] red armor [4/4] (100%)
    [e] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [f] 10mm ammo (x75)
    [g] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [h] rocket (x10)
    [i] rocket (x9)
    [j] rocket (x10)
    [k] rocket (x10)
    [l] power cell (x45)
    [m] power cell (x50)
    [n] power cell (x50)
    [o] phase device
    [p] envirosuit pack
    [q] technical mod pack
    [r] bulk mod pack
    [s] Arena Master's Staff
    [t] 10mm ammo chain (x250)

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    Acid       - internal 0%    torso 0%    feet 50% 
    Fire       - internal 0%    torso 12%   feet 25% 

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    95 former humans
    51 former sergeants
    13 former captains
    82 imps
    40 demons
    21 lost souls
    12 cacodemons
    16 hell knights
    3 barons of hell
    3 former commandos
    2 revenants
    3 mancubi
    2 bruiser brothers
    1 Arena Master

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
  On level 2 he entered Hell's Arena.
  He left the Arena as a champion!
  On level 5 he stormed the Chained Court.
  On level 5 he found the Arena Master's Staff!
  He defeated the Hell Arena Master!
  On level 6 he assembled a gatling gun!
  On level 8 he encountered the Phobos Anomaly.
  On level 11 he assembled a micro launcher!
  On level 16 he found the Tower of Babel!
  On level 16 he finally was splattered by a Cyberdemon.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 You see : out of vision
 You reload the micro launcher.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : out of vision
 You reload the micro launcher.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : out of vision
 You reload the micro launcher. You dodge!
 You start running!
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : out of vision
 You reload the micro launcher.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : out of vision
 You reload the micro launcher. You are hit! Your red armor is damaged! You
 die!... Press <Enter>...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 748 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 661 of those were killed.
 2 of those were killed by something unknown.
 20 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 48 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 17 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 4 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 13 killed the bitch and survived.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: LuckyDee on May 03, 2013, 14:26
Simple: Dodgemaster. Shoot until you hear him reload, move until he fires. Repeat.
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: Tormuse on May 03, 2013, 14:30
Either a lucky invulnerability or Dodgemaster trait.  The 100% dodge chance from Dodgemaster overrides the AoMC autohit, so I'd recommend that you make sure to get that before you reach Cybie.
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: Sereg on May 03, 2013, 14:34
Hmm... I'd been focusing on SoB into TH in preparation for anomaly, due to my clear-by-chainfire strategy there, and didn't have enough traits to build Dodgemaster after. There isn't much opportunity to run and dodge in Anomaly, so I made that clear my primary concern. I wonder if I can get by with just a single level of SoB? That should make Dodgemaster achievable before Babel... I sure can't pass up Intuition, since it's the only thing keeping me safe while still conserving ammunition.

I also noticed that, despite that conservation, I was running terrifyingly low by the time I got down to Babel, so maybe a Gatling gun isn't ideal... Possibly a high power chaingun would suffice? I had to give up my 100% clear goal lest I run out of ammo/take more damage then I could afford.
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: Klear on May 03, 2013, 14:42
Intuition is not conserving ammo. If you shoot at the intuition marks, you have 50% chance of missing outright, not taking the long range into consideration. Besides, any trait that doesn't add to damage per shoot doesn't do much to help conserve ammo.

You might want to learn to play other special levels if you have trouble getting enough XP for Cybie. There's no reason to skip Hell's Armoury, and Deimos Labs is pretty easy to clear if you don't unleash the dual shamblers.
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: White Rider on May 03, 2013, 14:51
Dodgemaster, stepping diagonally, some patience, and a little bit of luck.
...Alternatively, you can build Fireangel and play dodgeball while standing a few spaces away from the stage borders.

And yeah, basically what Klear said. Do the special levels, and at least learn the layout of the special levels on the lower difficulties if you need to. There's some good stuff to be had in the special levels *coughmilitarybasecough*
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: Sereg on May 03, 2013, 15:28
Never seen military base... I did see Hell's Armory and Deimos this run, but skipped them as usual, trying to avoid the excess damage and survive. Got through Anomaly with an invulnerability orb, got to Babel with 140% and a Berserk Pack, and dodgemaster, and he still kicked my ass... I think I need both Dodgemaster and Fireangel =X or maybe just a bit more luck... I feel like I might be able to manage this challenge if I keep at it.

Intuition lets me conserve ammo by allowing me to specifically target out-of-sight enemies, rather then radar shooting in the general direction.
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: White Rider on May 03, 2013, 15:34
I think I need both Dodgemaster and Fireangel =X

That's fine, you need Dodgemaster for Fireangel, so you'll end up having both :)
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: Klear on May 03, 2013, 15:40
Dodgemaster gives you a 100% chance to dodge first projectile each turn, so unless there is a wall behind you, Cybie can't damage you if you keep moving. Then it's only a matter of waiting until he shoots and then shooting back until you hear (and read) that he's reloaded. Then you want to dodge again until he shoots again. You might have to relocate a few times when he decides to close and try to melee you, but with a bit of practice and luck DM will give you an almost guaranteed Cybie's head, and should allow you to beat him every time.

As for shooting out of sight enemies - when shooting outside your vision, each shot has a 50% chance of missing, plus at this range your chance to hit probably isn't best, so you'll waste a lot of rounds while saving shells which you'd use for radar shooting. I'd say it's better to hold onto your primary ammo...
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: Sereg on May 03, 2013, 15:50
Well... why wait till they get in sight range? Better to kill them before they can kill me, not *while* they can. I've had enough trouble with Revenants tearing me apart before I even saw them on Intuition...

And in Babel, there are always walls behind me... Is there a specific path that avoids them somehow? I wasn't able to manage it - just constant explosions near me reducing my health, while I'm unable to heal, and I eventually ended up panicking and somehow hitting a wall in front of me for a suicide death... despite the Cyberdemon being clearly visible.

There must be quite a lot about this game I don't know...
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: Tormuse on May 03, 2013, 20:39
And in Babel, there are always walls behind me... Is there a specific path that avoids them somehow?

The pillars in Babel are distributed randomly, so there may or may not be a path, depending on how lucky you are.  Of course, if you have enough rockets, you can *make* your own path.  :)  (Something I did once when I wanted to be absolutely sure that Cybie wouldn't damage me)
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: White Rider on May 04, 2013, 01:26
From my own experience while searching for Cybie, I sometimes get hit by a random rocket because Cybie is tracking me from across the friggin' map. I have heard that in previous builds, Cybie snipes you with a rocket if you successfully hit Cybie before it enters your LOS.

Sometimes there is literally nothing you can do to prevent getting grazed by an explosion like that. If all else fails, give Fireangel a shot.
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: Klear on May 04, 2013, 02:19
I believe Cybie simply has extended sight range. If you move zig-zag towards him (with DM), he won't tag you though.
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: Fusilliban on May 04, 2013, 12:19
I haven't faced Cybie in the new version yet, so if there are serious changes then all this may be worthless, but:

In 996 I frequently took 0 damage from the big C without particularly trying.  The rocket launcher is the easiest weapon to dodge, so as long as there's clear space behind you, sidestepping is likely to work well for you even without DM.  With DM, the only danger is that he nails you before you see him, or that you start somewhere unable to face him in the open.  The change to tac boots makes it a little harder, but 2 levels in HR, you have max dodge chance at 7 squares away even without any gear or running.

I haven't played Gunrunner yet but I feel like that would make getting the head really entertaining.
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: Sereg on May 04, 2013, 14:09
Another death, this time from a Baron. Dodged his projectile, died anyway. I should stop focusing on YAAM and just dive for the Cyberdemon and the Mastermind...
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: Rajhin on May 04, 2013, 14:12
There is an easier way to get his head that is extra effective on AoMC - just use the BFG and get him with blast while he cannot get you with his rockets. No need in DM, speed or luck with dodge. One B3 bfg will be enough for hmp even after nerf.
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: Sereg on May 04, 2013, 14:48
Aren't the Halls of Carnage below the Cyberdemon?

Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: Rajhin on May 04, 2013, 15:27
Aren't the Halls of Carnage below the Cyberdemon?
Nope.
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: White Rider on May 04, 2013, 15:50
Aren't the Halls of Carnage below the Cyberdemon?

Halls of Carnage / Spider's Lair is on 14.
Cyberdemon is on 16.
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: Sereg on May 04, 2013, 17:04
Oh right. I did see Spider's Lair, but I didn't know they were paired.
Title: Re: [H|AoMC+AoMs|92%|16|YASD] Cyberdemon's head - how?
Post by: Sambojin on May 08, 2013, 17:33
For a damageless cybie, you really can't go past Fireangel. Do the special levels (the Wall gives you everything you need). The changes to Shottyman lets you step reload RLs and MLs just like you would with shotguns.

Dodgemaster+no splash damage+step reloading makes him a synch. Just stand back 5-8 squares away, fire, fire, click (cybie reloads), start moving diagonally. By the time he fires (which you'll always dodge if you're moving) you'll have a reloaded missile launcher. Rinse, repeat.