Chaosforge Forum
DoomRL => Requests For Features => Topic started by: Potman on October 19, 2007, 14:04
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Shotgun got one, so it'd be unfair to leave our rapid-firing friend from the party, even if it's already kinda powerful. Straight to my suggestion:
Dunno how many of you are aware of this, but the original's chaingun has this nice thing that it always fires at least two shots, and that those two will always, always hit the mark, or whatever you're aiming at. Thus, I'm suggesting the following:
a) Make the first two shots of the series of five to always hit, regardless of you being on Coward or anything else. The enemies will also benefit of this bonus.
b) If after the firing there will be no movement, picking things up, or any other activity from the player, including getting hit by the enemy, then all the subsequent shootings will be done much faster (like you had Finesse skill on two or something), but also have larger spread and less chance to hit - and the two first shots won't always hit this time, either. So like, if I fired the enemy, and then immediately fired again (and the foe won't hit me between the two times), I'll be able to do so muchos faster but with less chance to hit. Same goes with all the later shootings, until I get hit or decide to do something else.
c) Also give the weapon an alternate firing ability that will always fire exactly two shots - and those two will, of course, always hit. This'd be convenient against weak enemies such as zombies, against whom the five bullets is kinda overkill. This "sniping" won't benefit of the faster firing bonus mentioned above. Each point in Triggerhappy will add one bullet on this.
So what do we have here? Either you can do "short, controlled bursts", that won't really do much damage but they will always hit, or you can go all-out like "DIE YOU FILTHY DEMONS DIE DIE DIE DIE", and bombard the enemy with a massive barrage of hot steel. Neither of these would make the chaingun much stronger of what it is now, but give it some new dimensions, extra coolness, and classic Doom feeling.
Your thoughts?
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I kind of like the ideas.
Question is if the controlled burst should get a minor speedbonus since you logically dont blast of hot lead as much as full die demon die burst.
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seconded
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Undoomish, or more accurately, unchaingunish. Carrying around a gatling gun is all about gluing down the trigger and screaming like a madman, regardless of how tactically advisable that actually is.
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And thus, while the two first shots may be accurate, you really can't expect to make the following shots hit quite as well, with the heavy weapon kicking on you and all.
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Well yeah, I don't have too much of a problem with that part of it. The thing I don't like is giving people the option of controlled bursts. Burn that ammo!
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Even if it's all about firing like hell and screaming like mad, it is also possible to just fire these little controlled bursts, and thus the same option should be allowed in the game as well.
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Even if it's all about firing like hell and screaming like mad, it is also possible to just fire these little controlled bursts, and thus the same option should be allowed in the game as well.
Seconded.
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I'm against.
Have you thought about how this would likely entirely replace dual-wielded pistols?
It requires no skill selection (let alone an advanced skill), has a 25-shot magazine (at 50/2 per shot) to the pistols' 6 shots, never misses and allows a secondary weapon to be held beside the CG.
Other than that, it's unbalanced - anything with a 100% hit ratio, yet with no considerable drawback, is a major balance issue.
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Okay, let's forget the controlled. But what abouts the other one?
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An initial warm-up period for the first time you pull and hold the trigger for the chaingun, followed by on repeated use of the fire option faster (though less accurate) bursts would, given proper testing, make for a significant yet probably balanced change in the feel of the chaingun; proper use would require being out in the open where you are quite likely to get shot, which is rather dangerous and not quite reliable, but in some cases the only way to be sure you can belt stuff out in time to slay all the critters; ideally you'd either have to lose a significant amount of turns to burst-pause-burst-pause, which gives the critters time to hurt you, or you'd have to go nuts and risk missing most of your shots. I like it in principle, but I'm not too sure about how the particulars will work.
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a) It's undoomish, and hard to program - because different shots means different code for them. And reasons are not enough, because it won't change chaingun strategy.
b) It's also undoomish and hard to program. And I don't understand, what sense of that - make subsequent shottings better or worse?
c) Almost useless. Chaingun ammo isn't a problem. Perhaps, it's possible waste all chaingun ammo, if you meet several Arach's caves in a row, but in this case the feature won't help.
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It seems I’m yet again with the naysayers.
a) As you said yourself the two shots don’t always hit in the original Doom – the two shots hit whatever the first one hit. So to reproduce this it would mean that the first two shots would have to either hit or miss but wouldn’t be able to hit, miss or miss, hit. As far as I can see that really wouldn’t make any difference to the player because firstly he (or she) wouldn’t actually notice this if they didn’t know about it and secondly it will not effect the damage output if the chaingun.
b) Seems quite similar to the alternative fire (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?topic=1057.0) idea I had but as I pointed out in the same thread decreasing accuracy and increasing speed (or vice versa) doesn’t, in theory, change the gameplay one little bit.
c) This didn’t sound too bad until TFoN pointed out the problem with it.
Overall I’m against.
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Also shotguns were revamped, because people repeadetly reported them beeing useless in mid-to-end game. Chaingun on the other hand seems to be doing just fine.
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I'm also against. As TFoN said before, it will make the game unbalanced. Also shotguns once again will be worse than chainguns.
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Well, we have one topic of Chainguns being underpowered, and one topic of them being overpowered... Cool xD
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Actually, I quite like this idea--even if it more ascetic then tactical. What if we examined the percentage of turn that it takes to fire the chaingun? Say, 5 founds take the entire turn, it is a waste if your enemy dies in 2 shots (especially if you have multiple targets).
So, how about this: a controlled burst of between 2-3 shots that take only 50-75% of a turn and long bursts that fire 5-6 shots but take up 100% of a turn. Further, these full-bursts could be used sequentially (say getting an extra-maximum of one or two shots per turn), but with penalty to accuracy when the target is changed (after all, if you have the trigger glued down and you change targets, the bullets have to go somewhere--and could hit multiple targets).
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Well, we have one topic of Chainguns being underpowered, and one topic of them being overpowered... Cool xD
Nyu-huh, Kornel. Gots it all wrong. What we have is one topic of Shotguns being underpowered, and one topic of Chainguns being boring.
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[...] and one topic of Chainguns being boring.
huh?
The current Chaingun is fine. Turning it into some kind of assault rifle with a two shot burst and 100% accuracy is what would make it boring.
Don't fix what ain't broken.
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Well, we have one topic of Chainguns being underpowered, and one topic of them being overpowered... Cool xD
Nyu-huh, Kornel. Gots it all wrong. What we have is one topic of Shotguns being underpowered, and one topic of Chainguns being boring.
I think he was referring to my topic about SoaB. I could be wrong though. :>
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Well, I wouldn't mind being able to control my fire past the first 5 for chaingun shots as a part of Triggerhappy. In fact, that's pretty much the only reason I never take more than a single level of it; I often feel like I'm wasting my bullets even when I only take one level of it thanks to the effects of SoB and EE as applied to former foos.