Chaosforge Forum

DoomRL => Requests For Features => Topic started by: Conker on December 24, 2007, 15:31

Title: Remove Chained Court
Post by: Conker on December 24, 2007, 15:31
Does anyone think it might be good to remove the Chained Court? I always wince when I get to it. It's always the same - the berserk packs make it impossible to lose. It's so routine!

Even if you're a complete spastic, you can't die to those human guards with a total of 5 berserks available (plus the large health globe in the corner). The cacos, well, maybe the first time, but anyone who's gotten that far even a handful of time will be able to do the entire level in their sleep.

To pre-empt the reply of 'Ah, but it makes a player go 'Wow, this is neat!' the first time' - perhaps. But not the 2nd, 3rd, and definitely not the 200th time.
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: Potman on December 24, 2007, 15:50
It's really meant to melee games: That's the only time you benefit from the main price, which is chainsaw. Personally, unless I'm going AoB, I just always skip it, because its rewards suck otherwise.
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: sn0rb on December 24, 2007, 21:10
I never skip it- free Power Cells and an opportunity to chainsaw eighteen Former Humans and four Cacodemons to death?! Sign me up!

Conker: You don't have to go through the Chained Court- or any bonus level, for that matter. I frequently skip Hell's Arena (and The Wall, ammo depending). Incidentally, it is possible to die on Chained Court- get shot a lot, have Berserk time out, and don't make it back to the Berserk Packs in the middle. Kinda embarassing u_u;
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on December 24, 2007, 22:40
Actually I thought about substituting the former foo's in that level for demons and lost souls ;].
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: DaEezT on December 25, 2007, 01:51
Replace it with something like the first boss battle in Zombies Ate My Neighbors. Make it a maze filled with mostly demons and one zombie wielding the chainsaw. :D
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: Potman on December 25, 2007, 02:03
Quote from: Kornel Kisielewicz on December 24, 2007, 22:40
Actually I thought about substituting the former foo's in that level for demons and lost souls ;].

I support whole-heartedly.
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: Blade on December 25, 2007, 08:44
Quote from: Potman on December 25, 2007, 02:03
Quote from: Kornel Kisielewicz on December 24, 2007, 22:40
Actually I thought about substituting the former foo's in that level for demons and lost souls ;].

I support whole-heartedly.

Me too! More exp, more fun and Former Sergeants won't shoot each other stupidly.
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: Conker on December 25, 2007, 11:26
Quote from: sn0rb on December 24, 2007, 21:10
I never skip it- free Power Cells and an opportunity to chainsaw eighteen Former Humans and four Cacodemons to death?! Sign me up!

Conker: You don't have to go through the Chained Court- or any bonus level, for that matter. I frequently skip Hell's Arena (and The Wall, ammo depending). Incidentally, it is possible to die on Chained Court- get shot a lot, have Berserk time out, and don't make it back to the Berserk Packs in the middle. Kinda embarassing u_u;

I bet it is.

You don't HAVE to go through it, no. But considering even a poor player can clear it with no losses whatsoever (I'm using myself as a great example here - just remove your armour before entering. Health and ammo are replenished by the abundance of berserk packs), the only reason you wouldn't do so, as you're saying you don't, is presumably the monotony. Surely we can all agree that it's a bad thing for any part of the game to become monotonous?

Besides, the way I play, I don't like throwing away any experience - even the small amount I'll get from the former foo's and four cacos might be enough so that I gain a crucial level that bit earlier - every little helps. And as you say, the power cells are nice too. And the speed mod.

I support the demon and lost soul idea (not sure if you were joking or not, but I think it's a good idea). And the removal of a couple of berserk packs. It's just too easy.
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: Silhar on December 25, 2007, 11:48
You know ? Remove the surface level ! It's a routine ! Or change foos for Arachnotrons ! :P

Serious now - not bad idea to change foos for demons, IMHO. But if so, "let me mod my chainsaw !", to make it worth the risk...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: tisiphone on December 25, 2007, 12:10
You know if it’s just meant for melee players then why not just make it spawn only on Angel of Berserk? Same should apply to Unholy Cathedral.

And wouldn’t changing former foos in to deamons and lost souls make it harder for Angels of Berserk since they would be no longer “safe” in melee. Just a hypothesis, no idea if that would actually be the case. And since Angles of Berserk will no longer be shot at as they charge I suppose it could balance out.
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: DaEezT on December 25, 2007, 12:36
Quote from: tisiphone on December 25, 2007, 12:10
You know if it’s just meant for melee players then why not just make it spawn only on Angel of Berserk? Same should apply to Unholy Cathedral.
Bad bad bad bad idea!
AoB is all melee but not all melee is AoB :p
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: Conker on December 25, 2007, 14:07
Quote from: Ilhar on December 25, 2007, 11:48
You know ? Remove the surface level ! It's a routine ! Or change foos for Arachnotrons ! :P

It's entirely different. The thing about the surface level is that there's variety there. Sometimes you get all the health-packs, sometimes you only get a couple (sometimes you get none, and smash your keyboard in rage). And sometimes the monsters get lucky with their hits and actually do considerable damage. You have to concentrate and play well to minimise this damage.

As for Arachnotrons, considering there are 5 sources of berserk there, and considering the layout of the level, it'd still be too easy. And you'd gain a disproportionate amount of experience. Perhaps changing the layout would help.
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: Thomas on December 25, 2007, 20:01
Quote from: DaEezT on December 25, 2007, 01:51
Replace it with something like the first boss battle in Zombies Ate My Neighbors. Make it a maze filled with mostly demons and one zombie wielding the chainsaw. :D

Bah, that "Boss battle" is even easier than the chained court. I can even get the chainsaw begone bonus without needing to heal. [/away for a day or two]

And I also support the lost souls and demons idea, but even that's a bit easy. Perhaps you need a chained court only enemy, like an even stronger demon or a spectre.
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: tisiphone on December 26, 2007, 06:05
Quote from: DaEezT on December 25, 2007, 12:36
Quote from: tisiphone on December 25, 2007, 12:10
You know if it’s just meant for melee players then why not just make it spawn only on Angel of Berserk? Same should apply to Unholy Cathedral.
Bad bad bad bad idea!
AoB is all melee but not all melee is AoB :p
Really? That’s a bit surprising. I can’t really imagine a situation where I would want to be a melee character in a normal game...


Oh, Oh, I just got an idea. I’m not too sure how feasible it is but here you go:
Make it so the chainsaw sticks in the player’s hands (like a cursed weapon) for that level and make the chainsaw the only source of berserk. It probably should be an extra long berserk to accommodate the loss of the 4 other packs... Actually you could make the chainsaw an advance chainsaw that prolongs your berserk status or something like that.

That way you will feel a sense of urgency to kill as much as you can while you berserk but you will have to keep a close eye on your health.

Of course there should be a way to make sure that the player actually picks up the chainsaw...
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: DaEezT on December 26, 2007, 07:11
Quote from: tisiphone on December 26, 2007, 06:05
Really? That’s a bit surprising. I can’t really imagine a situation where I would want to be a melee character in a normal game...
Playing a melee character is fun and doing so in a normal game removes many of the frustrating situations that are common to AoB (former sergeant on dlvl2 anyone ;D)
Going melee is also probably the easiest way to beat AoLT.
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: Silhar on December 27, 2007, 15:11
Quote from: tisiphone on December 25, 2007, 12:10
You know if it’s just meant for melee players then why not just make it spawn only on Angel of Berserk? Same should apply to Unholy Cathedral.

So, for what will be the new Juggler ? Huh ? No. No bastard shall touch my chainsaw ! Grrr...

Quote from: tisiphone on December 26, 2007, 06:05
Actually you could make the chainsaw an advance chainsaw that prolongs your berserk status or something like that.

Just had another idea. Sorry, maybe it'll sound a bit offtopic...
Maybe some kind of special weapon or armor parts would be fine ? Some unique stuff found somewhere in the game ? You know, for example a skull talisman to attach it somewhere to an armor or weapon, that would increase berserk duration ? Or praying beads, that would increase damage dealt to hellspawns...
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: BDR on December 28, 2007, 00:28
Quote from: tisiphone on December 26, 2007, 06:05
Really? That’s a bit surprising. I can’t really imagine a situation where I would want to be a melee character in a normal game...

I can.

"Gee, would I rather let this former foo/arachnotron shoot me or force him to try and punch me?"

DaEezT likely got what you *really* meant, though. :P
Title: Re: Remove Chained Court
Post by: sn0rb on December 28, 2007, 14:19
BDR/Tisiphone: One time, and one time only, I had the chainsaw when I picked up an Invulnerability Sphere. The only time (besides Phobos Base 1) when I put the shotgun away. =p

Oh, and just remembered another reason why the Chained Court is awesome: You can get a lot of ammo for an AoMrk game there.