Chaosforge Forum

DoomRL => Requests For Features => Topic started by: Almafeta on December 27, 2005, 18:32

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Almafeta on December 27, 2005, 18:32

Two reasons why I think it should be 'Plasma Pistol,' not 'Plasma Rifle':

1.  I always think that 'Plasma Rifle' is an error o_o;

2.  The 'Son of a gun' trait would apply to it, making that trait a bit more appealing.

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Turgor on December 27, 2005, 19:44

Quoting: Almafeta

2. The 'Son of a gun' trait would apply to it, making that trait a bit more appealing.

whoa! you want to make a ranged weapon that does 8*1d8 be able to shoot for 8*(1d8+6)? that's from 8-64 damage to 56-112 damage per shot! methinks that would be way overpowered.

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Almafeta on December 27, 2005, 20:09

1.  If you manage to get there with the pistol as your primary weapon, you DESERVE it.

2.  Seriously, how many times do you get to fire the plasma rifle?

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Turgor on December 27, 2005, 20:19

1: actually getting there using only shotgun types of weapons is a lot harder (at least for me cause i'm such an abuser of the system a.k.a. shooting enemies outside of your vision)

2: lots.. i killed the cyberdemon 7 times now, got to plasma rifles roughly twice that number.

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Malek Deneith on December 27, 2005, 23:49

Quoting: Almafeta

1. I always think that 'Plasma Rifle' is an error o_o;

Ehhh? Why?!?

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: JimmyJ on December 28, 2005, 23:21

It was called plasma rifle and was a plasma rifle in doom/doom2, it will be the same here.

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on December 29, 2005, 04:58

When I first read this feature request I was all against. Why? Because I already said I'm against non-doom weapons. Yet, it came to my attention that a Plasma Pistol COULD fill a tactical niche in the game. Remarks:

1) It would provide a stronger pistol-like weapon for use with the "son of a gun" trait, and the Pistol-ony challenge.
2) It would provide a earlier and more efficient opportunity to waste... err... use plasma clips.
3) It would provide a single-shot non-spreading powerful weapon.
4) It could be the later-weapon of people who prefer finesse over rampage

Please elaborate, I may submit this upon a vote in the future...

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Malek Deneith on December 29, 2005, 17:19

If you mean adding Plasma Pistol as an new weapon, then perhaps yes ... If you consider changing Plasma Rifle into pistol than no :]

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: jake250 on December 29, 2005, 17:47

Quoting: Malek

If you mean adding Plasma Pistol as an new weapon, then perhaps yes ... If you consider changing Plasma Rifle into pistol than no :]

My opinion as well.

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Turgor on December 29, 2005, 19:12

Yes, as a new weapon would be the better option imo. but what would it's stats be? i like something like 10 ammo and 2d6 damage.. or 3d4.

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Alfonso the Great on December 29, 2005, 21:05

2d6 seems reasonable for damage; with maxed SoaG you'd be dealing between 8 and 18 damage per hit. With 10 shots before reload, you could deal 80 to 180 damage, with a 60% reduction in firing time to boot. I would go with a 6-ammo "clip" because a gun like that FAR outstrips the rocket launcher (4d4 per reload) or double shotgun (2[6d3] per reload), which I can see as being equivalent weapons at that stage of the game.

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Turgor on December 29, 2005, 23:52

60 turns rocketlauncher: 3*4d4 (shoot, reload, shoot, reload, shoot) = 12-48 (average 3*10=30)
60 turns plasma pistol 2d6: 6*2d6 = 12-72 (average 6*7=49)

even a 6 ammo clip would outstrip a rocketlauncher in the long run.. but you're forgetting the knockback from rockets and shells, and that for 1 shot rocketlaunchers and double shotguns are far superior (you can often hide in safety while reloading).

edit: and yes, if you add lvl 3 son of a gun it is definitely better than the rocketlauncher or double shotgun.. but 3 levels is a lot in this game!

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Alfonso the Great on December 30, 2005, 02:34

The rockets and shells do have the knockback going for them. The Plasma Pistol still outdamages the rocket launcher and double shotgun with maxed SoaG, and it still has the -60% firing time going for it (how many extra shots would that be?). But without any points in SoaG, you get 2-12 damage before considering any other abilities you may have, which even the chaingun can outstrip handily (and with more plentiful ammo that doesn't compete with the BFG, to boot).

It could very well be the case that someone who sinks points into SoaG might never find the Plasma Pistol in the first place, be it through RNG fickleness or a shotgun guy setting off an adjacent barrel because. For me, at least, unless I knew for a FACT that I could get my hands on one of them (or if I was doing a pistol-only challenge), I'd be better off investing my skill points in other skills.

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: JimmyJ on December 30, 2005, 02:36

Yes, but still, that is YOUR opinion, although really, it could perhaps be found in hells arena or chained court as a prize to help you out along your quest through hell?

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Alfonso the Great on December 30, 2005, 03:02

Quoting: jimmyj

it could perhaps be found in hells arena or chained court as a prize to help you out along your quest through hell?

I think this is a good idea. It would remove some of the uncertainty about "wasting" points on a skill.

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Aerton on December 30, 2005, 12:17

A new pistol would be nice, but it having it outdamage shotguns and rocket launchers is ridiculous. There is simply something wrong in a pistol have higher accuracy, damage and requiring reload only after 6 shots (as opposed to 2).
Yes, it does not have the knock-back effect, but it is faster, it does not explode barrels by accident and it does not destroy good items on the floor. And plasma clips it not that scarace.

And I would like to see a little rework on the layout of the first level to make an ordinary pistol more usefull as it was in earlier versions.

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Alfonso the Great on December 30, 2005, 19:04

.

Quoting: Aerton

A new pistol would be nice, but it having it outdamage shotguns and rocket launchers is ridiculous. There is simply something wrong in a pistol have higher accuracy, damage and requiring reload only after 6 shots (as opposed to 2).
Yes, it does not have the knock-back effect, but it is faster, it does not explode barrels by accident and it does not destroy good items on the floor. And plasma clips it not that scarace.

This is true. Maybe the solution would then be to up the damage from the double shotgun and rocket launcher? That would bring the entire weapon balance achieved in the game into trouble, though....but adding a new weapon will almost always do that.

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Thomas on December 30, 2005, 21:10

The current weapon chain:

Pistol
Shotgun
Cmbt. Shotgun
Chaingun
Dbl. Shotgun
Rocket launcher
Plasma rifle
BFG9000

I think it should be in between combat Shotgun and chaingun.

In 250 turns, the combat shotgun can cause 180 damage
In 250 turns, the chaingun can dish out some major hurt at 350 damage.

WHOA! Big gap. No wonder when I first did hell's arena I got a highscore.

Keeping in mind that this is at an unarmored enemy at close range. Otherwise the damage may be lower.

In 250 turns, the plasma pistol should do approx. 280 damage. This means that an example of the turn times for the PP is:

Clip size: 10
Damage: 7d3
Firing time: 10 turns
Reloading time: 20 turns

Although the damage looks quite high, this will do just a little above 280 damage in 250 turns.

Fire pistol X 10 (140 damage, 100 turns)
Reload pistol (120 turns)
Fire pistol X 10 (280 damage, 220 turns)
Reload pistol (240 turns)
Fire pistol (294 damage, 250 turns)

Assuming you always roll an average of 14 (the average of a 7d3 anyway)

So there. We have a spot, and a suggested formula, for the PP.

EDIT: My mistake! The double shotgun allready does 270 dam per 250 turns. Possibly the PP could do 230.

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: JimmyJ on December 30, 2005, 23:29

The balancing issues could be solved by makin hell deeper, therefore adding space for tougher monsters such as the mancubus, and revenent, and those guys that make lost souls :)

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Alfonso the Great on December 31, 2005, 02:46

Quoting: jimmyj

The balancing issues could be solved by makin hell deeper, therefore adding space for tougher monsters such as the mancubus, and revenent, and those guys that make lost souls :)

Don't forget Arch-Viles. I think they'd quickly become more feared than Arachnotrons, especially if they have their ability to revive dead monsters!

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: JimmyJ on December 31, 2005, 06:47

meaning that there could (possibly) be a new level with tons of mancubus's and a Arch-Vile hiding out of the action reviving them ;)

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Krishh on December 31, 2005, 11:31

In reply to the post about putting the pistol between combat shotgun and chaingun:
But what would then be the point of the pistol, save for pistol challenge games? You get the chaingun by level 3, if you do Hell's Arena (which you should), and the first power cells become available level 10+, save for the few in the Arena. If you make cells appear earlier, you'll be able to accumulate a lot by the time you get the plasma rifle, and the BFG, and ammo scarcity is the main balancer of those weapons. If you don't, such a pistol would be useless by the time you got the plasma rifle. I think the pistol should a bit more poerful then the rocket launcher agaist a single enemy, but weaker against multiple.

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: jake250 on December 31, 2005, 16:51

Thinking a bit about that, this plasma pistol doesn't fit with "Doom"...

Im sorry, but a Plasma Pistol reminds me of Halo, not Doom :P

So im not for that weapon..

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Almafeta on January 01, 2006, 01:18

I withdraw the idea; it was made in error (I assumed that 'plasma rifle' was the error, what with Quake's plasma pistol).

EDIT:  And woo!  First post of the year (according to this forum's clock!)

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: JimmyJ on January 01, 2006, 01:56

still a while before it is a new year for me :/

Title: Change 'Plasma Rifle' to 'Plasma Pistol'
Post by: Anticheese on January 03, 2006, 05:11

Quoting: jimmyj

and those guys that make lost souls

That would be a Pain Elemental