Chaosforge Forum

DoomRL => Requests For Features => Topic started by: Anticheese on February 07, 2006, 08:38

Title: Campaign Mode
Post by: Anticheese on February 07, 2006, 08:38

Hi, This is a suggestion for a campaign style mode of play in DoomRL.


Everyone here knows (or shound know) that all of the official incarnations of doom had campaign play, In Doom I and II it is best likened to what DoomRL is today, Doom III had active plotline.

What I suggest is the following, And I will start with features I would like to see added.

--

In order to make challenging (Not as-in hard) levels, I beleive that there should be an update to the game engine to allow for levels that are larger than the current limit, The best example I can think of is the multiple-screen levels found in www.t-o-m-e.net (Tome - Trouble of middle earth, An Angband varient).

This can allow for more filling campaign mode and eventually a semi-clone of Doom I and II (See more details later.)

In short, Update the game to accomadate bigger levels.

-

The next feature would be a Level Editor, I would imagine it not to be too hard to create a level editor, However the main problem is making it user friendly.

User friendlyness meaning such tools as "painting" (Having the selected tile of terrain allways added where the cursor is next, Like you were constantly pressing the add terain butten, But more automatic), Block fill, Etc.

Having a level editor would open up the door to user made campaigns.

Also, Perhaps the game could come bundled with all the Doom music and an option in each level to choose which bit of music is played?

Also if the graphics here (http://doomforum.chaosforge.org/index.php?action=vthread&forum=3  &topic=158) make it into the game, Perhaps a seperate program or integrated GUI would be in order.

--

Multi-Story levels, I know I have posted this one before, But it adds a ton of extra oppertunity in level design.

On an example like note, Say someone wanted to create a replica of the doom II level "Icon of Sin" (level 30, Final level), And you climbed the central pillar required to actually shoot the boss, is it possible to impliment the player falling down levels untill he hits something on a lower level?

--

Ok, Now onto campaign play.

We all know about how in Doom I and II you roved around the level pushing buttons, shooting things, Looting crates of ammo, etc, etc and when you were done you simply pushed the big red (Ok fine, 75% of the time it was green) button and got sent closer to hell.

The reason why I requested larger levels is because campaign mode on the scale DoomRL is now would quite frankly suck.

In campaign mode you would choose your difficulty/challenges/etc (Features we are told will make it into 0.9.9) and then select your campaign, Campaign mode in my mind would essentially consist of preconstructed levels and possibly classic doom-esque breaks in the action to review a piece of plotline.

Yes I know I am not exactly making it easier to imagine/create a campaign mode but what do you want me to do, Draw full ASCII maps of Doom I and II?

More on that note..

I also think that it would be really really neat if DoomRL came packaged with a semi-clone of the original Dooms, Or perhaps it could be a fan made package, Who knows?.

Thanks for your time.

Title: Campaign Mode
Post by: jake250 on February 07, 2006, 13:36

I throwed the scrolling level idea somwhere before and I want to see that too, indeed. Most here as already been asked anyway, although they are all good idea overall, although not the easiest to make I guess.

Title: Campaign Mode
Post by: flap on February 07, 2006, 16:21

Ok. About user levels, if it is done, maybe my idea of dll is not of any use.
Maybe, there could only be user designed levels, but in a simple format. (example : text file, with map of the level)

No need to create and editor. Us, user could simply create it (and any weird random level editor....)

Title: Campaign Mode
Post by: Anticheese on February 07, 2006, 19:36

There is no sense in making the custom level format .dll, .dll's are NOT a gaming format.


An inbuilt level editor will really take alot of the pain out of trying to do it in notepad, I dare you to paint a wall with felt tip pens. Trust me, Editing levels in notpade is NOT the most fun thing to do.

For a level editor I envisaged something like what is found in Megazeux (http://www.digitalmzx.net/) (Simple game creation system using a modified ASCII character set).

--

Title: Campaign Mode
Post by: flap on February 08, 2006, 10:14

Yep .dll is not gaming format, it is coding format (bits of code out of a programm).

Yep, I understand people not like it.

What I meant with notepad : If ever there is the possibility to make user levels or campains, it would be good if we had the format and if it were simple. So that we could built our own editors, automatic generator...

If Kormel did simply make possible to load user made levels, and released the format, he not necessaringly have to build and editor. That would be less work for him. And thus, if ever he thinks that the idea of user made levels fits its vision of the game, that it would be more likely this feature to ba added.

Anf of course, notepad would be terribly bad to create full levels. It was just an idea of what could the level format look like.

Title: Campaign Mode
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on February 08, 2006, 19:30

I'll comment on this more thoroughly once I have the time :-/. As for now I'd like to hear more opinions ^_^

Title: Campaign Mode
Post by: Anticheese on February 09, 2006, 03:46

Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz

I'll comment on this more thoroughly once I have the time :-/. As for now I'd like to hear more opinions ^_^

You heard the man, Flame away.

Title: Campaign Mode
Post by: sn0rb on February 09, 2006, 04:53

Quoting: Anticheese

For a level editor I envisaged something like what is found in Megazeux (http://www.digitalmzx.net/) (Simple game creation system using a modified ASCII character set).

Not to go off topic, but I prefer ZZT (http://zzt.the-underdogs.org) over MegaZeux- simplicity is fun! ^_^

Getting back on topic, you mentioned before that prepacking all the Doom music with the game (and choosing which song plays on which level) would be a good idea. The game already comes with Doom I music =p

E1M1 - Hangar always plays on Phobos 1F, and I think the songs play sequentially from there. (Never got to Level 20 to see if E2M8 - The Tower of Babel plays when you come face-to-rocket launcher with Cyberdemon, though.)

Baphomet would also be a cool thing to see, but would Kornel Kisielewicz's Head on a Stick be on the other side of the wall? Would we hear a distorted "Zciweleisik Lenrok em taefed tsum uoy emag eht niw ot!" when we get within his sight range? =p

Title: Campaign Mode
Post by: Anticheese on February 09, 2006, 05:04

Quoting: sn0rb

Zciweleisik Lenrok em taefed tsum uoy emag eht niw ot!

Come on :-)

Also AFAIK DoomRL only comes with Doom I music..

Quoting: sn0rb

E1M1 - Hangar always plays on Phobos 1F, and I think the songs play sequentially from there. (Never got to Level 20 to see if E2M8 - The Tower of Babel plays when you come face-to-rocket launcher with Cyberdemon, though.)

Nope, Just got up to the cyberdemon and it playes Number 12 - Nuclear plant.

Title: Campaign Mode
Post by: flap on February 09, 2006, 17:38

Ok, probably my last post before I leave this forum (which does not mean that I will not work a bit on a level generator...).

The ideas I find important about campaign generator are :
- Being able to write text between levels
- Eventually, have multiple exits which brings to different levels. So there is different path. The text sent with the different path can be different. (exemple, instead of 20 levels there are 30. In level 1, there are two stairs, one going to number 2, on to number 3. Both have a stair to go to number 4). With this you could imagine different endings.
- To make choice between stairs more interesting, and add a little bit of color, maybe could some tiles wear a bit of text (when you l-ook at them).

But well, it might start to look complicated. And doomRL has to be simple.

By the way, if there are no multiple store level, there could at least be some impassable tiles, like "pits". You can see and fire through, however you can not go through. And maybe windows : you can see and fire through, however, noone can go through.

Ok, "Flap, the unregistered" is leaving. Thanks Kornel !! And I'll watch these products closely.

Title: Campaign Mode
Post by: Anticheese on February 09, 2006, 19:47

Quoting: flap

- Being able to write text between levels

You mean like how in Doom I and II there was the occasional part where a tiled background would display and plot info would write itself?

Quoting: flap

- Eventually, have multiple exits which brings to different levels. So there is different path. The text sent with the different path can be different. (exemple, instead of 20 levels there are 30. In level 1, there are two stairs, one going to number 2, on to number 3. Both have a stair to go to number 4). With this you could imagine different endings.

Ooh I really like this one! In theroy I think it can be done now, By having one level that is normal and the rest of the levels as "Special Levels" (only this time without the red >"

Quoting: flap

By the way, if there are no multiple store level, there could at least be some impassable tiles, like "pits". You can see and fire through, however you can not go through. And maybe windows : you can see and fire through, however, noone can go through.

There was a post, a long time ago..It suggested a "Void" type map, Think narrow bridges, Lots of impassable pits. However the catch was that if you got pushed into a pit (Say, By shotgun or rocket) then you pretty much died.

Perhaps that suggestion could be modified, Modified being one of two things:

A - End Level Pits (You know, In Doom I and II there were some levels towards the end where you jumped down a pit to finish the level instead of the conventional "Push the button, Igor."

B - Falling off a pit wont kill you, The next level is generated (or loaded depending on whether you are playing conventional mode and campaign mode) and you will appear in the square relating to your position, If it happens to be a pit or other dangerous terrain, Tough luck.

I would imagine also that being damaged for 40% or so of your health would not be out of the question for falling off non-endlevel pit.

And that if you fell on an enemy he would perhaps cuishon (Spelling error) your fall to the tune of "He dies, You take half damage."

I would also imagine that if you landed on the cyberdemon, He would merely be very pissed off.

Quoting: flap

To make choice between stairs more interesting, and add a little bit of color, maybe could some tiles wear a bit of text (when you l-ook at them).

I like this one, I really do...

I think that the special "Text when you l-ook" tiles would be a great addition but really underrecognised (How many people take the time to "L" at everything though..

Thanks for your parting comments, I hope you will drop in again sometime..

More comments please :-)

Title: Campaign Mode
Post by: JimmyJ on February 11, 2006, 01:21

Anti, although you have good ideas, most have already been suggested, in older posts, I for one made the level editor topic, and someone else made the scrolling level, etc...etc....

Title: Campaign Mode
Post by: Anticheese on February 17, 2006, 03:56

First off I would like to apologise for not posting untill now.

Thats out of the way.

--

Ok, I collected all theese ideas together and made a collated list of suggestions ment to help facilitate a campaign mode, I have thought of theese ideas for a while and really, Posting an idea does not patent it.

Please see the whole topic as a suggestion for a campaign mode.

Also can more people comment on it? I really want to see what Kornel thinks..

Thanks

Title: Campaign Mode
Post by: Lexman on March 08, 2006, 07:05

Quoting: Anticheese

The next feature would be a Level Editor

Awsome idea. i like it