Chaosforge Forum

DoomRL => Discussion => Topic started by: Anticheese on April 12, 2006, 10:41

Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Anticheese on April 12, 2006, 10:41
Hi, Last week when I was drafting a few new adventures to use in a few weeks time I thought "Hey, What would Doom be like if it were ported to the D&D system?"

I reckon it would be a really nifty idea to have a Doom based D&D game played on the forums, I've seen similar things done...

Does anyone support this idea?
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Aerton on April 12, 2006, 12:01
/me grabs D20, blows dust off it and throws into a wall right behind Anticheese, making sure he'll get into a radius of explosition as well as a few barrels nearby

Sorry, I just can't image how such a game could to be played on a forum.

Seriously, there was either D&D or AD&D (using stripped-down rules) conversion of the Diablo by TSR. I think, I still have a pdf somewhere (hadn't ever tried it or even read the thing, though).
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Anticheese on April 12, 2006, 22:02
Well I think the way that it happenend on the other forum was that people were alowed 1 post a day.

Yeah, In hindsight suggesting to play it on the forum seems a dumb idea.

Do you reckon that IRC would work?
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: JimmyJ on April 13, 2006, 00:36
If you are good at scripting, then yes...i've played a lot of stuff on IRC, its fun...we'd need a server, or at least a channel, though
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 13, 2006, 08:33
On-forum RPG's? Doable, happened before. Doom D20? I don't think so... D20 is flexible but it aren't meant for porting shooter games :P
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Anticheese on April 13, 2006, 09:30
Well the stuff is all there, All we need to do is replace all the fantasy stuff with Doom related stuff.

Heck, the Dungeon Master's Guide comes with instructions on how to use shotguns in your campaign!
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: sn0rb on April 13, 2006, 19:55
Quoting: Malek
On-forum RPG's? Doable, happened before. Doom D20? I don't think so... D20 is flexible but it aren't meant for porting shooter games :P


Hmmm... d20 Modern comes with stat sets for pistols, shotguns, and assault rifles... I'm sure either that or the Storyteller system could work. =p
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Turgor on April 13, 2006, 21:51
If there's going to be an IRC RPG, count me in! I might give a forum version a try, but i'm usually not too fond of those.

I'd be willing to help with an IRC version too, allthough my scripting is mediocre at best. But there's probably an IRC RPG that can be con/subverted to Doom, right?
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Anticheese on April 13, 2006, 23:48
When I say conversion, I dont mean direct conversion; Rather having it based off the Doom universe and what would have happened on Earth.

So for instance we would not have each objective cleared by pulling a lever.

--

I like the idea of an IRC game, The bare minimum of stuff we need to do is have a dice roller, hitpoint counter and perhaps an inventory tracker.

What time zones does everyone here live in?
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Turgor on April 14, 2006, 00:08
GMT+1 here (Holland)

what IRC servers do people here frequent? :)

I was trying to cut down my IRC time, but i may be found on efnet and ircnet as Matsi, on echo34.com as RedDwarf (i use this one the most lately, but it's a music related network, not too fond of gaming bots), and on galaxynet as RedDwarf or Turgor.

edit: Hanging out in #DoomRL at IRCnet for now if anyone's interested.
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: JimmyJ on April 14, 2006, 00:24
GMT-8 Here

If we do IRC, defenantly count me in! But yes, we will need some bots, what with to pm the commands to, so the game works :)
And to keep the channel from disappearing!
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on April 15, 2006, 19:22
If at all I would vote for an IRC channel on QuakeNet -- I could Idle there for a few hours a day :-]. I also have a possibility to setup a bot :-D. But for both, you would need to wait 'till I'm home (about wednsday).
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Turgor on April 15, 2006, 23:57
Allright, then i will now idle in #DoomRL on Quakenet. I could invite L, but maybe you want to do that Kornel?
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on April 16, 2006, 10:43
Ok, I'll drop in as I come back home. About L -- we'll you need a couple of idlers to do that :-).

Back to topic -- D&D sucks. And it realy does. I hate everything that has D20 written on it :-P. Saying that D20 is flexible is like saying that there is no difference between a lightning bolt and a shot from a M16.

Think GURPS! :-D. GURPS is *THE* roleplayng system, for all worlds, all genres and all situations. DoomRL was inspired by unofficial GURPS Doom, and although on the surface DoomRL seems to have levels and ToHit/ToDam, in the inside it's 100% GURPS ;-].
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Flynn Taggart on April 16, 2006, 20:13
"...although on the surface DoomRL seems to have levels and ToHit/ToDam, in the inside it's 100% GURPS"

Except that GURPS is a d6-based system, and DRL uses d4s, d8s, etc.

D20 is nowhere near as flexible as people make it out to be, but GURPS ain't the "holy grail", either.

The only Multiverse RPG system that's worse than GURPS is RIFTS.

It's better to just write up a quick system, if you want to run Doom as an RPG. I'd be willing to do it, if anyone was interested.
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on April 16, 2006, 22:51
Quoting: Flynn Taggart
Except that GURPS is a d6-based system, and DRL uses d4s, d8s, etc.

Just for weapon damage :-).

Quoting: Flynn Taggart
but GURPS ain't the "holy grail", either.

I've got dozens of RPG systems on my shelf, and have read several more -- GURPS is the closest system to universal best that I know. The only system IMHO that is better is Amber Diceless, but that one can't be used for a cRPG for obvious reasons ;-)

Quoting: Flynn Taggart
It's better to just write up a quick system, if you want to run Doom as an RPG. I'd be willing to do it, if anyone was interested.

GURPS is as complicated or as simple as you make it. GURPS Doom was a brilliant conversion, and I dont see the need to make another one ;-).
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Turgor on April 17, 2006, 01:24
When i'm doing a roleplaying session with friends face to face, i hate systems. But you need them to stop endless arguments over what's fair and what's not.

I'd say GURPS has a lot going for it, because of it's adaptability for nearly every setting you might want to use. And since DoomRL is based on GURPS Doom, i think it's only logical to walk that beaten path.
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Flynn Taggart on April 17, 2006, 07:09
Point made. I do like what you've done with the weapons in this game, Kornel. We've all got our own gripes with different systems.

Back in '97 I myself rewrote Shadowrun to an entirely different game system because FASA's d6 method made results of 7, 13, 19 etc. utterly pointless. That, and I wanted to make firearms as realistic as I could, within the fairly simple bounds of the rules system. None of that "Go ahead and shoot me with your 10mm Auto. I'll shrug them off all day" bullshit.
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Anticheese on April 17, 2006, 10:38
I recall that someone posted links to a GURPS Doom sheet a while ago, Does anyone have here experience in GM/DM'ing GURPS?


From what I can see there are alot of people keen on the idea, This should turn out to be a great activity here.

Ok, My wording sucks.

I'm just happy it turned out to be a good idea.
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on April 17, 2006, 12:37
Quoting: Turgor
When i'm doing a roleplaying session with friends face to face, i hate systems. But you need them to stop endless arguments over what's fair and what's not.

That's why my favorite system is Amber DRPG :-).

Quoting: Flynn Taggart
I do like what you've done with the weapons in this game, Kornel. We've all got our own gripes with different systems.

Damage codes are fun -- especialy if the computer rolls the damage for you ;-). As for the rest of the mechanics is much plainly GURPS with the stats hidden. Alhough the Dodge system is something completely Game-inspired (and completely unrelated to GURPS).

Quoting: Flynn Taggart
None of that "Go ahead and shoot me with your 10mm Auto. I'll shrug them off all day" bullshit.

That's what I like about GURPS -- A crossbow shot in the heart kills. Of course you get to roll the dice, but the effect is almost always fatal.

Quoting: Anticheese

I recall that someone posted links to a GURPS Doom sheet a while ago, Does anyone have here experience in GM/DM'ing GURPS?

ROTFL -- I do :-P. I once wrote a full Campaign for Doom RPG -- and a completely serious one at that... It encompassed most of the Doom I and Doom II storyline, modified a little in a few places.
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Malek Deneith on April 19, 2006, 10:50
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
Back to topic -- D&D sucks. And it realy does. I hate everything that has D20 written on it :-P. Saying that D20 is flexible is like saying that there is no difference between a lightning bolt and a shot from a M16.

Think GURPS! :-D. GURPS is *THE* roleplayng system, for all worlds, all genres and all situations. DoomRL was inspired by unofficial GURPS Doom, and although on the surface DoomRL seems to have levels and ToHit/ToDam, in the inside it's 100% GURPS ;-].

The truth lies in the eye of the beholder. - personally I like D20 very much ... you say it's not not flexible? Than how come so many settings can be sucessfully made in d20? I'm not saying that d20 is without flaws but so far it coveres everything I need.

Yuo say you don't like "people taking 100 bullet shots and still living"? So change it ... make pistols always provoke Massive Damage ... or use Grim'n'Gritty HP rules - rise of dead characters guaranteed ... it's another proof of d20 beeing flexible - you can easily housrule the things that you don't like so the game suits your needs ... or just find someone who did it for you...
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Anticheese on April 20, 2006, 08:05
Its fairly clear that everyone here is divided by opinions on RPG systems, I agree that any RPG system can be changed to suit the needs.

As for the lightning bolt analogy? One could argue that a bolt of lightning would be just as deadly as being sprayed with an assault rifle, But I am yet to see a D20 campaign that includes the spell Lightning Bolt and an M16 :-)

--

*ahem*

Back to the task at hand.


If Kornel wrote a Doom storyline and still has it, I reckon it would be a good idea to air the basic premise to us all (Nothing spoiler ish, Just a hint of nifty) and we can see from there, I have had no experience with GURPS and most likely few others here have, But I'm sure we can learn as we go along.

The idea of the creator of DoomRL doing this also has a bit of appeal to me.

(In summary I like the idea of Kornel DM'ing and would like to see a little bit of his Doom campaign)
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on April 20, 2006, 15:46
I'm sorry I'm flamewaring here, but all things considered, I guess I have the right to do that on my own forum :-]:

Quoting: Malek
The truth lies in the eye of the beholder. - personally I like D20 very much ... you say it's not not flexible? Than how come so many settings can be sucessfully made in d20?

You say that Windows isn't the most flexible and stable system around? Then why the VAST MAJORITY of programs are made ONLY to work on Windows? This proves that Linux is shit, or else programs would be written mostly only for Linux, right?

WotC did an awful thing when they announced the D20 Gaming Licence -- they basicaly did what IBM did many years ago -- they seemingly *opened* their product, to destroy the competition. And I hate some things that happend afterwards -- Ezample : I loved Star Wars D6. Star Wars D20 is nice, and beautifully published. But each time I played it it felt like DnD. Which destroyed the Star Wars feel for me completely. And this is just one of many examples.

 
Quoting: Malek
I'm not saying that d20 is without flaws but so far it coveres everything I need.

All RPG systems have flaws. All RPG systems are suited for some purpose. D20 is great (if not the best choice) for fantasy powergaming. But for true roleplaying (as opposed to rollplaying) and genericness it *sucks*.

Quoting: Malek
Yuo say you don't like "people taking 100 bullet shots and still living"? So change it ... make pistols always provoke Massive Damage ... or use Grim'n'Gritty HP rules - rise of dead characters guaranteed ... it's another proof of d20 beeing flexible - you can easily housrule the things that you don't like so the game suits your needs ... or just find someone who did it for you...

You say NetHack is too hard -- so change it! Edit the source and increase the average HP level of the player 10 times! It's another proof of NetHack being flexible -- you can always edit the source so the game suits your needs ... or just find someone who did it for you... :-).

Oh come on, this argument is complete VOID. Of course I can make DnD a perfect system for my gaming sessions -- I'll just use GURPS attribute system, GURPS success rolls, GURPS character creations system, etc, etc. Does that prove that the system is flexible? And is that still D20 we're talking about?

Quoting: Anticheese
As for the lightning bolt analogy? One could argue that a bolt of lightning would be just as deadly as being sprayed with an assault rifle, But I am yet to see a D20 campaign that includes the spell Lightning Bolt and an M16 :-)

I runned such campaigns many times. Either in Amber's universe, or my own, or any that had Magic and Technology side by side. GURPS is brilliant for that...

-------

Quoting: Anticheese
The idea of the creator of DoomRL doing this also has a bit of appeal to me.

(In summary I like the idea of Kornel DM'ing and would like to see a little bit of his Doom campaign)

I'd like doing it but currently I'm relly short on time. I need to reorganize, and then please bring me back up with this idea :-). My English sucks though, and I'm rather sure I would suck as a Storyteller in this language :-(.

* I hope nobody took that irony seriously :-P.
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Anticheese on April 21, 2006, 09:41
Believe me, Your english is far better than your average American (Yes, I'm looking at you, WoW)

I'm sure you would do the job great, We have no difficulty understanding you on the forums and I know that there are at least 3 people here with english as their second language.

Please dont step out of it because you think that you suck and blow more than a mountain of naked men.*

Could you still give us a bit of your campaign though?

*Please dont kill me.
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: jake250 on April 21, 2006, 14:15
Quoting: Anticheese
I know that there are at least 3 people here with english as their second language.

Stop looking at me :P

English is my second language (french being my first), and I think im doing relatively fine, even if im only 16 years old.

Nothing is going to be more usefull in my life than the English will (and already is), and all those forums I visit and frequently post are great opportunities in making my english better and better. Sure it's nowhere perfect, but if you can understand all what I said, isn't that a proof? :P
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Santiago Zapata on April 21, 2006, 17:55
English is my second lang as well... (did my name show that already? :p)

I think you could do well at DMing it... well I have never really played a real RPG campaign or anything (tried once... but the DM was... arrogant and freaky :p) but this would be a nice first time ;)
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2006, 00:51
Where can I find this GURPS Doom? And this Amber system you speak of?
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Anticheese on April 26, 2006, 04:49
I found some stuff for the GURPS Doom:

Clicky
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Turgor on April 26, 2006, 15:44
That GURPS Doom page looks pretty good. I especially liked the spec ops idea, that could make for a fast paced, adrenaline rush filled game, with lots of paranoia growing as the group journeys to the center of a ruined city.
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Anticheese on April 27, 2006, 02:33
I also think that the traitor idea would work perfectly in an IRC game, You dont have real life signals to betray your guilt.
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: bfg9001 on April 27, 2006, 04:51
GURPS Doom is pretty cool. And the GURPS system in general seems a lot more simple than the D20 system, and more realistic.
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Turgor on April 28, 2006, 16:52
You also have PMs which would not only mate the traitor idea better, but all kinds of situations in which the DM wants to let only one or a few people know a certain piece of information. Works for players too offcourse. No more scribbling notes or stepping out of the room which tips the rest of the group off that there's something afoot!
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: JimmyJ on April 29, 2006, 19:38
well, i prefer the irc idea more than anything else :P And perhaps we can sue some of DoomGuy's features to help :?
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Anticheese on April 30, 2006, 00:44
Well, yesterday Turgor had created a dice roller which can preform anything between 1d1 to 999999999d999999999.

Later on I learned that twenty three nines d twenty three nines will crash it. Sorry Turgor :-)

Anyhow, We now have dice, Do you think that Andrew will be able to put it in the bot?
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: sn0rb on April 30, 2006, 06:06
Just what do you really need 999999999d99999999 for, anyway? Black Mage's Hadoken? A thermonuclear bomb? The Elvish Sword of Great Antiquity from Zork? Scaramanga's Golden Gun?

Do any of those warrant a Fort save for half? =/
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Anticheese on April 30, 2006, 10:02
You forgot to mention Von Neuman machines :-D

Anyhow, What is the betting we can brainstorm some campaign ideas?

If need be, I can DM the d20 system.
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Turgor on April 30, 2006, 13:55
I'd rather not DM, but i can help with a brainstorming session about the campaign.

Also, you don't need 999999999d999999999 for anything, but it's easy enough to make it go that far. I limited it to 99999d99999 max now btw. It's not in perl so it's of no use to doomguy, but i'm sure it's not hard to script a dice roller in perl too.
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Malek Deneith on May 02, 2006, 22:37
There is a pretty nifty diece roller here (It has rolls database, which is handy)
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Anticheese on May 04, 2006, 05:56
Aerton, Thomas and I are working on some content for a DoomRL based D&D.

Clicky.

Feel free to add anything you feel balanced.
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on May 04, 2006, 06:06
My God. Why the hell HAS TO BE IT DND?? :-|
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Anticheese on May 04, 2006, 09:02
Kornel, I am really disappointed with you. Not only are you at least twice as old as me, Showing the maturity of someone half my age, But also ignore a more important topic to express your immense dislike of D&D in a really unconstructive way.

I chose D&D because it is the system I and my partners in development are familiar with and because we can easily distill the essence of DRL and Doom into a clear and consice campaign, We are even using the DRL statistics as a baseline to work on!
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on May 04, 2006, 09:27
1) I wrote why I dislike DnD and I don't feel the need to repeat myself
2) DoomRL is based (internaly too) on GURPS
3) GURPS Doom is freely available and a link to it is given in this thread
4) GURPS is a quick to learn system and the lite version (all that is needed) is available as a 32 page booklet free to download.

I can't imagine how with the given arguments people can still choose an inherently broken system like DnD :-(
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Aerton on May 04, 2006, 12:11
DnD3 is not a perfect system, but it's not an inheritely broken either. It meets the goals it was designed for. Arguing which one is better is more broken makes no sense. Taking an example from your arguments, staying alive after a crossbow hit is not a misfeature, it's intended. It may be intolarable in a game based on a Lovecraft books, but can be desirable in another setting. You can survive a direct rocket hit in Doom. You can survive that in DRL too.

Saying all that, I personally don't really care what system is used (exact formula of dice roling is not even a secondary matter). Anticheese is the most active person in regard to the IRC game (at least when I am online), so it's quite naturally that choice is made by him as he is making the biggest part. He picked a thing he likes and is familiar with.

Kornel, no one disrespect your views, opinions or the thing you created, but should you bash people for doing the things the way they like, especially when you are keeping a distance?
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on May 04, 2006, 15:00
Of course you're right Aerton (as always :-)).

My violent reaction is by part based on the same foundations as the hate of many Linux users towards Microsoft. D20 destroyed many, many great roleplayting systems, and railroaded the RPG scene into DnD clones. Now there are only a few striving RPG systems left (notably GURPS and WoD) -- before D20 there were hundreds.

Still tough, I'd argue, that for a IRC game a simple system should be used, and using GURPS/DoomRL would have the advantage, that all the stats would be there already, and the system would need only minor tweaking for the RPG world. GURPS basic rules (and especialy the subset/simplification used by DoomRL) are so simple that one could tell them in less than 5 minutes.
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: bfg9001 on May 05, 2006, 00:11
I've had experience with GURPS, D&D, and even the system used for Call of Cthulhu (what's it called, Basic or something) and even I must say that GURPS is byfar the best of the three. Very simplistic in design, but so flexible it can fit any universe. Plus, the combat is very realistic, which I like.
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Magekind on June 11, 2006, 07:15
Hmmm, yes and no. Even if they've copyrighted the d20 system, that's not going to stop me from getting a set of dice, writing down a handful of "guidelines", and going at a game with a few friends. D&D or not; even if I take the D&D book in hand, I can "house-rule" out everything I don't like.
<br />
<br />As for GURPS - I'd have to look it up. I've actually played d6 games before with a sheet of graph paper and one or two friends.

EDIT: I can also "house-rule" in anything I want. We had a couple of the fellows around here make themselves a Jedi class...
Title: D&D, Doom and You
Post by: Silencer on June 15, 2006, 06:23
I have to agree with Kornel on D20, I was never a big fan of D&D and I've played it on and off for about 16 years. I also played Star Wars D6 from the original release, when Star Wars D20 was released I had a look and had to withstand the upchuck reflex, it might be beautifully published but some aspects are badly broken.

Now I'm not a big fan of GURPS either, but that's more to do with some of the crud released for it than the system. But as Kornel says also the lite rules are freely available and more than sufficient with the existing Doom supplement.

Personally if I felt the need to make a new one I'd actually go for Hero system, which I find easier to deal with than GURPS or D20, and I can work with the existing rules to quite happily build a game without needing to add custom rules normally. Unfortunately most people who look at Hero are scared off by the size of the book, and the amount of tables and stuff in the main book. But as I've frequently said to my players, you can frequently get away with only a knowledge of the specific genre book being used without ever picking up the core.

I would advise you look at the GURPS Doom before trying to build a Doom D20, GURPS is easy to get into, I found it less confusing than D&D when I first looked at it, and a lot quicker to get into working with. And if you don't like it then build your own. If nothing else it should give you ideas.