Chaosforge Forum

DoomRL => Requests For Features => Topic started by: Thomas on September 19, 2009, 21:14

Title: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Thomas on September 19, 2009, 21:14
I mentioned on the IRC (irc.quakenet.org:6667-6669, #chaosforge) that the beta badges I was going to skip would probably be the centurial ones because I find Ao100 tedious. This led to a bit of a discussion about how we could make Ao100 more of a unique and exciting experience. We came up with a few ideas...

Add in the special levels, but more spread out. Near the end (Level 70+ or so) you get Ao100-only special levels, which are incredibly challenging.

Add in Ao100-only special levels. My favourite was the mini-mortuary, a vile spin on classic arenas.

Make Ao100-only enemies. Someone suggested (possibly as a joke) AoD caves, where there's a whole bunch of demons/lost souls... and the AoD. You can shoot at him, of course, but that doesn't stop him from being twice as fast as a lost soul and having as much HP as the cyberdemon.

So what are your suggestions for it? Make them as excruciatingly difficult as you like, Ao100 is supposed to be the hardest challenge. Besides, you're dealing with level 16 marines with 5+ uniques here, they need a challenge.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 19, 2009, 22:32
Super caves.

Pain elementals which spawn ANGELS OF DEATH. WITH RANGED ATTACKS.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Vestin on September 19, 2009, 22:42
Quote from: Aki on September 19, 2009, 22:32
Pain elementals which spawn ANGELS OF DEATH. WITH RANGED ATTACKS.
And over 9000 HP ;) ?
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 20, 2009, 00:19
Their ranged attack is a BFG10K that Chainfires enough shots to lag the best supercomputer in existence (IE Over 9000!)
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 20, 2009, 00:53
Seriously, though, let's get started on ideas.

I'm nice enough to draw you guys up a template for levels:

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Paste it straight into Notepad and you're off.

You might want to colour it, though.

Thomas, would you be against this thread having new boss monsters added? I could post required fields, if you'd like.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Passionario on September 20, 2009, 01:46
Radium barrels: They get hit, level gets nuked.

Encountered only on levels 75+.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 20, 2009, 02:57
Shotgun guy says hi. Anything with a blast radius of >1 says hi.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Malek Deneith on September 20, 2009, 03:11
Quote from: Thomas on September 19, 2009, 21:14
Make Ao100-only enemies.
Brace yourself for an odd suggestion: Boss monsters... and by boss I mean like diablo/diablo 2 i.e. befed up regulars with special abilities and a name. From what I remember there was a discussion on these waaaaay back and most people thought they don't really fit... and while I understand that sentiment with regular DoomRL I think that with "deep dungeon" theme Ao100 might potentially be a place for them.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Gargulec on September 20, 2009, 03:21
Maybe name those monsters after various devils from Jewish and/or Chrisianic folklore, like:
Kamael (count palatine of Hell), Azazel, Samael, Asmodeus, Belial etc. ?
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 20, 2009, 03:30
Malek, I already beat you to it. :P

I'm actually thinking of ideas centering around boss monsters as we type...And a special Wolfenstien level, of course ;)
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Gargulec on September 20, 2009, 03:38
There definitely should be some kickass boss on level 99- Lucifer, maybe?

Also, small idea- first 15 levels are Phobos base, right? But instead of 74 leves of Phobos Hell, we could divide it into parts (circles!)
15-19- Limbo
20-30- First Circle
31-40- Second Circle
etc.

Each of them would be different from previous in design, monster type and so on. And each of them would finish with some small boss.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 20, 2009, 03:50
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Malek Deneith on September 20, 2009, 03:52
Quote from: Aki on September 20, 2009, 03:50
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then what for level 100? This?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: MaiZure on September 20, 2009, 04:00
Would it be possible to have a former human type boss spawn with your stats and equipment? (i.e. Gemini)
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 20, 2009, 05:44
How's this?

Yet to be named wolfenstein tribute:
Code: [Select]
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#MMMMMMMMM#%%%%%%%%%%%%%V%%%%%V%%%%%%#...^...#.....................#>#
#.........#%%%%%%%%%%%%%V%%%%%V%%%%%%#.....+.#.....................#>#
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#.........#%%%%%%%%%%%%%V%%%%%V%%%%%%#.....+.#.....................#>#
#.........#%%%%%%%%%%%%%V%%%%%V%%%%%%#...^...#....................H#>#
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#..............OO............................#.....................#>#
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#............................................#.....................#>#
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#.^.#ooo#BBB#.^.#RRR#ccc................oo.&.#........o..#S.#S.#S.#S.#
#^&^#oVo#BVB#^&^#RRV#ccc.O...O...O......oo...#..o#o###o..#..#..#..#..#
#.^.#ooo#BBB#.^.#RRR#ccc.........######+######..o#V#Voo..##+##+##+##+#
##################################ccccAAAcccc#..o##V##o..#S..S..S..S.#
#&..##...##...###.##ccc#...#o..#R#^^ccccccc^^#...oV#V#o..##+##+##+##+#
#......H........#&#c#V#V#V#o#.#..#############..o###o#o..#..#..#..#..#
#...##...##...###.+M.#...#o..#R..#&=B=B=B=B==#&.......o..#S.#S.#S.#.@#
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The capital S's are SS's. The o's are Officers. Both of these can be resurrected by arch viles.

The first H is Hans, and the last one is Mecha-Hitler.

I'm too tired to come up with stats and the like as yet, and can't think of a good way to make this shit color. If you guys like this, then i'll make a lever map outlining what levers break what walls (They're invincible, btw.)

EDIT: In addition, phase devices/nukes do not work and are consumed upon use, giving this message: "Your phase device/Thermonuclear Bomb fails! Those bloody Nazi's think of everything..." The walls are, unsurprisingly, unbreakable as well.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Melon on September 20, 2009, 05:53
Quote from: Aki on September 20, 2009, 05:44
How's this?

Yet to be named wolfenstein tribute:
Code: [Select]
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#MMMMMMMMM#%%%%%%%%%%%%%V%%%%%V%%%%%%#...^...#.....................#>#
#.........#%%%%%%%%%%%%%V%%%%%V%%%%%%#.....+.#.....................#>#
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#.........#%%%%%%%%%%%%%V%%%%%V%%%%%%#...^...#....................H#>#
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#.^.#ooo#BBB#.^.#RRR#ccc................oo.&.#........o..#S.#S.#S.#S.#
#^&^#oVo#BVB#^&^#RRV#ccc.O...O...O......oo...#..o#o###o..#..#..#..#..#
#.^.#ooo#BBB#.^.#RRR#ccc.........######+######..o#V#Voo..##+##+##+##+#
##################################ccccAAAcccc#..o##V##o..#S..S..S..S.#
#&..##...##...###.##ccc#...#o..#R#^^ccccccc^^#...oV#V#o..##+##+##+##+#
#......H........#&#c#V#V#V#o#.#..#############..o###o#o..#..#..#..#..#
#...##...##...###.+M.#...#o..#R..#&=B=B=B=B==#&.......o..#S.#S.#S.#.@#
######################################################################
The capital S's are SS's. The o's are Officers. Both of these can be resurrected by arch viles.

The first H is Hans, and the last one is Mecha-Hitler.

I'm too tired to come up with stats and the like as yet, and can't think of a good way to make this shit color. If you guys like this, then i'll make a lever map outlining what levers break what walls (They're invincible, btw.)

EDIT: In addition, phase devices/nukes do not work and are consumed upon use, giving this message: "Your phase device/Thermonuclear Bomb fails! Those bloody Nazi's think of everything..." The walls are, unsurprisingly, unbreakable as well.

Oh man, I do not know what you smoke, but can I have it twice?
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 20, 2009, 06:03
This is....surprisingly completable. If you can do N! AoB, you can do fucking anything
We've got Modded Uniques, and are considering making normal weapons with 4 mod slots.

All of the O's are Pain Elementals, btw.

Oh, and i'm thinking that Hitler should have 2 Forms, just like he did in Wolf3D, with the first one having 500 hp and 15 armour, the second having 100 hp and 5 armour.

And is twice as fast as AoD.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: metroidRL on September 20, 2009, 10:13
this is my special level...... i called it "playground", appears after level 70

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#OOOOOOO#^^................................................^^#V.....V#
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#hhh#............................................................#MMM#
#hhh#...............|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||..............#MMM#
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the | are ammo for every weapon: rockets, power cells etc.
the ^ are supercharge globes, berserks packs, invulneravbility etc.
you must hit every switch to go to the exit..... homing phase devices and thermo's don't work it says: "the power of hell melt your homing phase device/thermonuclear bomb". levers can't be destroyed

well did you like it? :P

(note: the h's are former commandos)(note 2: the upper left wall is destroyed by the lever, then the lever in there destroy the center left wall, etc.)

the reward is a random unique weapon and the backpack.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on September 20, 2009, 11:41
Piece of cake with a splash weapon :P
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Fanta Hege on September 20, 2009, 13:18
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#BB##..............+...c.c.c..c.......+RRRR##VVVV##......##...#^##...#
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You feel a need to Go 2 It..

Rough mock up;
^'s are invulnerabilities, megaspheres or super charges depending on the diffuculty.

Ammo's are mostly rockets and cells, some shotgun ones here and there.

The weapon on the start is a BFG9000(advanced or regular), good luck grapping it.

h's are captains.
O's are pain elementals

Most of the walls are indestructable and all the levers are aswell, the doors also have to be punched or shot open.

The first lever esposes the BFG and the Mancubi. The two other levers at the bottom again do other things. The first lever after the spiders there opens all doors(!).
And the last lever at the lower down corner blows up the wall with the Barons and the Captains.

Regular destructable walls;
3 left sides of the Pain Elementals.
The lone wall of blocking at the down right corner.
The walls around the Captains.
Some of the walls near the spiders, can be chosen randomly



Yeah this is a bit of rough idea.
Might need a lot of tweaking to make working.

And I'm pretty sure most of the people know what this is based on. =P
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 20, 2009, 16:28
Man, that looks like a great idea!

@metroid: Yeah, that's really too easy. Whip out your AoE like Kornel said, and it's easier then the mortuary.

While I agree that I must have been smoking something last night, does anyone like my Wolf3D tribute? (Oh, and Hitler is no fucking way gonna be that buff...) And all those health Items I provide...Except for the ones before hitler, they're all armor shards and small globes. Fun times.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 20, 2009, 19:14
I call it...Coffee Break.

It appears around dlevel 25-27.
Code: [Select]
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#+#################..#..#..#..#.......................#..............#
#...hh#........#hV#....h#h....#..........O&O..........#.############.#
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It's like a workplace. You start in the foyer, then proceed into a 'holding room' full of former commandos to fry your ass.
The top lever breaks the walls to that little place with all the commandos, and the bottom one is a Meditech lever, a "Coffee Machine".
You then proceed through an office space, with the first lever after the sargant being an open button to the "toilets", where the 4 viles are located. The next lever with the Pain Elementals is another Meditech, the Pain Elementals spawning Lost Souls addicted to the coffee.

You then take out the board of executives (the barons).

On lower difficulties, the Viles are replaced by Hell Knights. On any difficulty but N!, there is no ammo/weapons dropped from any enemy. blah blah can't nuke or phase
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Psion on September 20, 2009, 19:46
Quote from: Malek Deneith on September 20, 2009, 03:11
Quote from: Thomas on September 19, 2009, 21:14
Make Ao100-only enemies.
Brace yourself for an odd suggestion: Boss monsters... and by boss I mean like diablo/diablo 2 i.e. befed up regulars with special abilities and a name. From what I remember there was a discussion on these waaaaay back and most people thought they don't really fit... and while I understand that sentiment with regular DoomRL I think that with "deep dungeon" theme Ao100 might potentially be a place for them.

This.  I remember that thread and it would be awesome to see some of the ideas implemented.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: MaiZure on September 20, 2009, 19:56
Ive seen a number of interesting and creative ideas for the Ao100. I'd love to see some of these make it in to the game someday.

Only thing I'd like to reject is the no nuke/phase thing. I thought those sort of limitations are best saved for their own challenges. Ao100 has room for so many special levels that you can't possibly 'avoid' them all.

Keep 'em coming!
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on September 20, 2009, 20:15
BTW, Boss monsters are planned independently of Ao100
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 20, 2009, 20:34
Kornel - Damn. I was having so much fun.

Maizure - I'd like to think that some special levels disable this, so that you can play through them as intended. Half the fun of the levels i'm trying to design is that playthrough factor.

Maybe not nukes. But def. Phase devices.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: metroidRL on September 20, 2009, 20:48
yeah well maybe my creation was easy but now i make it more harder

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#OOOOOOO#....................................................#VVVVVVV#
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#BBBBBBB#....................................................#RRRRRRR#
#BBBBBBB#........................@...........................#RRRRRRR#
######################################################################
now there is no power cells and every wall is destroyed, low rocket spawns (like 10, because you could have a lot of power cells before enter) no invulnerability, only berserks and supercharge globes also there is no armor so... its relatively hard since every monster destroys the ammo and globes and use ranged attacks. Also when you hit the last lever 7,8 or 9 (depending of the dificulty) archivles are spawned randomly and you must kill them to reveal the exit.... now beat it. :P
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Vestin on September 20, 2009, 20:55
Quote from: MaiZure on September 20, 2009, 19:56
Only thing I'd like to reject is the no nuke/phase thing. I thought those sort of limitations are best saved for their own challenges. Ao100 has room for so many special levels that you can't possibly 'avoid' them all.
Damn, that's exactly what I wanted to say, but I thought that I'd be alone in saying it.
Also - "No nukes, no phase devices, indestructible walls only... Final Destination. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-7gmds2njg)" ;).

Quote from: Aki on September 20, 2009, 20:34
Maizure - I'd like to think that some special levels disable this, so that you can play through them as intended. Half the fun of the levels i'm trying to design is that playthrough factor.

Maybe not nukes. But def. Phase devices.
Things become boring once there's a single correct solution. If the player wants to blast through the walls and go another way - why not let him ?
Also - why stop him from phasing to the exit ? If he went down the special stairs on purpose, he obviously WANTS to go through the level.
Forget the stick of "no PDs, no nukes, indestructible walls" and try a carrot of "lots of XP and a random unique" or similar... Make the player WANT to clear the level.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 20, 2009, 21:13
I suppose you're right...Perhaps the solution lies in the level only counting as clear in achievements when you don't use a nuke?

And I really haven't thought of any rewards to mine...anybody got a suggestion?
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Thomas on September 20, 2009, 21:29
Hey guys, lets suggest rooms with thousands of enemies and no cover, THAT'S how you promote strategic play.

But we can't give them situations that couldn't easily be simulated by getting an few Arch-Vile packs on level 50, that would make gameplay too varied.

My suggestion:

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#VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV#
#VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV#
#VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV#
#VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV#
#VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV#
#VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV#
#VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV@VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV#
#VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV#
#VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV#
#VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV#
#VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV#
#VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV#
#VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV#
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#VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV#
#VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV#
######################################################################

I call it the... "Are you invincible and have a unique splash weapon", keeping in theme with every idea suggested so far (except Aki's first one)
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 20, 2009, 22:06
Lol, Thomas.

What about my second one? Except for the Pain Elemental room, I tried to keep lots of cover around...(Like an office space :D)

EDIT: Oops, forgot about the Commando room.
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Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Fanta Hege on September 20, 2009, 23:14
Well my earlier suggestion on mimicing the go 2 it level wasn't really that great on the second look.

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So how about a zig zag hell? Should be bit more tactical and fun or atleast fun.

Spawns somewhere near level 30 or 40.

Basicly a little ol zig zagging "maze" with a vault in the end for a precious reward. 3 random armors with atleast one red one, 2 plasteel boots and 2 random weapons which are chosen from double shotty and up with their representive ammo near by. One of the Armor or Weapon can and should most likely spawn as an unique. 
h's are randomly chosen, some sergeants, some captains and few commandos. B's are barons or/and hell knights.
The G at the end is something like a vault guard, a miniboss. Not sure what excatly it should be but I'd imagine a guard to carry a chaingun type of a weapon.
Levers have random effects, no wall exploding however. The last lever is an armor debosit though just incase yours need repairs.   
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 21, 2009, 00:13
The diagonals provide an appropriate amount of cover...I likes.

Although it seems too easy for level 40 tbh.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Melon on September 21, 2009, 00:59
If you have a modified advanced BFG (ammo, ammo, ammo, damage, damage, damage) this level is quite easy [; Since arch-villes don't move for the few first turns and they do not ressurect each other this level might be a piece of cake ;P
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: MaiZure on September 21, 2009, 01:04
We need these levels ASAP :P
It's the only real way to get to Arch-Vile rank in a reasonable amount of time...killing 1000 of them in normal game play would take 500+ games, but these proposed levels give PLENTY of them.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 21, 2009, 01:20
Exactly.

And they're not in packs (usually), so these levels mean that you're not confronted with insanity.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Passionario on September 21, 2009, 07:46
The Refinery is what barrel hell levels want to become when they grow up.
Bringing splash and/or inaccurate weapons is definitely not recommended.

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Key:

1's are fuel barrels, 2's are acid barrels, 3's are napalm barrels.
='s are acid patches, z's are lava.
O's are pain elementals, s's are lost souls, c's are demons.
U is a random unique.
}, ], |, +, " and ^ - random weapons/armor/ammo/medikits/mods/powerups.
@ is the starting point, D's are doors, *'s are teleports, X's are teleport exit points, > is the level exit.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Krok on September 25, 2009, 09:13
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This, altho the lost soul isn't necessary.

@ Passionario : can we have more barrels in your barrel level please ?
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Krok on September 25, 2009, 09:26
I don't see what could be really exciting about going through 100 levels with super equipement, full skills vs massive spam of monsters. Either you have to build bigger monsters, but that prly won't happen, or some way to keep equipement pressure (random item destructions when taking big shots, rust monsters or something) or make monsters grow at the same rate you do.

Maybe, increase all monster's health sightly when going deeper, 10% every 10 levels past the 30th or so - but anyway, there will be a routine coz the game is designed to be 4 times shorter.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 25, 2009, 16:35
Have you played Ao100? It's got the hardest difficulty tag in the game for a reason.

Yes, you have super equipment and full skills. A Vile Pack still decimates you.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Fanta Hege on September 26, 2009, 01:25
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I heard something about a buff for anachnotrons so why not celebrate with a nice little web/nest of spiders?

Basicly like an arena and maze combined but way more scattered with some lava/acid spots here and there. Item drops come regularry as in randomly. However only enemy you will run to are spiders and spiders.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Jimmy on September 26, 2009, 17:42
A level like that with mancubi would be scary.  It always sucks to turn a corner and eat 3 fireballs in the face.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on September 26, 2009, 18:34
Yeah...Except half the time they'd blow themselves up! :P
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Jimmy on September 26, 2009, 22:50
True, but there are many of them and only one doomguy ;)
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Journey on October 07, 2009, 21:35
I think beyond adding more enemies, the best way to increase the danger level is to increase enemy damage (rather than enemy hp, or other stats).  This will ensure that the game is always dangerous, and force the player to be careful no matter how powered up Doomguy is.

Increasing enemy hp is simply powering down Doomguy's weapons and traits, relatively speaking, so the fight becomes similar to earlier ones on lower levels.

Increasing enemy speed can increase danger, but can lead to unfair situations, where an enemy could come in range of even a careful player, and before the player can act, fire two or more shots.

However, it could be fun to sprinkle a few "upgraded" monsters here and there, single monsters, unresurrectable, with upgraded stats in speed, firepower, and health.

Or even "Unique monsters" - bosses from Doom and other games.
Title: Re: Spicing up Ao100
Post by: Aki on October 08, 2009, 01:25
We're looking to spice it up - Not quite make it shitloads harder :P

Boss Monsters should be implimented, though :O