Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
present the player with challenges that he must complete for the next level
Challenges? Do you mean ``end this level with 100% kills'', ``end this levels with all barrels intacts'', ``get all the x items'', ''push all the levers''...? It would be nice.
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
What things should the system track?
The easy way is to sum all the XP.
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
What would be the benefit of attaining ranks?
I will can begin the game in the level that I choose.
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
Will this realy be a good addition to DoomRL?
Seems it would be nice, but it's more work! At least, the new challenges system don't must interrupt the actual/normal way of playing DoomRL.
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
One of them (i think experience) would have military ranks (...) and the other (i think skill) would be based on Doom races (...).
This reminds me of Frontier ^_^
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
What do you think?
Fun idea, go for it
Oh and BTW, speaking of non-general progress tracking how about "monsters killed X from Y" on equipment screen for easier level clearing? (It has been suggested somehere between 0.9.8 and first beta ;P )
Quoting: Malek
Oh and BTW, speaking of non-general progress tracking how about "monsters killed X from Y" on equipment screen for easier level clearing? (It has been suggested somehere between 0.9.8 and first beta ;P )
Nag, that would be too arcadish. I might make a "You feel safe now." message instead.
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
I might make a "You feel safe now." message instead.
Anything that tells me I'm done with the level for good works for me ^^
I love this idea, Could it be tied in to the forum? (I.E Click on a button beneath the avatar to see their achievements)?
Quoting: Malek
Anything that tells me I'm done with the level for good works for me ^^
Same here
Quoting: Anticheese
I love this idea, Could it be tied in to the forum? (I.E Click on a button beneath the avatar to see their achievements)?
That's the whole idea :). The rank itself could be viewed instead of the description under you'r avatar.
Quoting: Thomas
Defeat over 4 enemies in less than 10 turns.
Impossible.
100 turns? Maybe, But it takes about 35 turns to even get to the DOOR of the phobos base.
Quoting: Thomas
Get all traits to the max level (Med-Low)
Impossible (Kornel admitted recently that there is a sort of exp cap after some level :( )
Quoting: Anticheese
Quoting: ThomasDefeat over 4 enemies in less than 10 turns.
Impossible.
100 turns? Maybe, But it takes about 35 turns to even get to the DOOR of the phobos base.
Change turns to moves and it gets all too easy (Combat Shotgun FTW :D)
Quoting: Anticheese
Impossible.
100 turns? Maybe, But it takes about 35 turns to even get to the DOOR of the phobos base.
No, within 10 turns of eachother, as in killing 4 enemies at once.
Quoting: Malek
Quoting: Thomas
Get all traits to the max level (Med-Low)
Impossible (Kornel admitted recently that there is a sort of exp cap after some level :( )
No, in seperate characters, like have one with level 3 ironman, one with level 2 cateye... etc.
Quoting: Thomas
Defeat over 4 enemies in less than 10 turns. (Medium)
Trivial :)
Quoting: Thomas
Fully beat hell's arena on difficulty 4 (Medium)
Almost Impossible :D (you know what's the final boss on hell's arena?)
Quoting: Thomas
Do a partial victory without using a thermie (Hard)
I don't get it :/. How?
Quoting: Thomas
Kill 10 arachs in one game (Med-Hard)
Defeat 20 enemies in melee in one game (Med-Low)
Both easy.
Quoting: Thomas
Get a 100% kill count on a diff 2 victory (Hard)
Medium.
Quoting: Thomas
Defeat 100 lost souls in one game (Hard)
Defeat 500 enemies in one game (Hard)
Defeat 100 lost souls in one game, but no pain elementals. (Very hard)
These actually depend on luck and not on skill :/
Quoting: Thomas
Beat the game on all 5 difficulties (Incredibly hard) (Also a skill goal)
Next to impossible concerning Nightmare :>. This will be the final challenge for the General skill rank.
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
Do a partial victory without using a thermie (Hard)
I don't get it :/. How?
Easy, Catch yourself in the blast radius of a rocket that will kill the CD and you.
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
Defeat 100 lost souls in one game (Hard)
Defeat 500 enemies in one game (Hard)
Defeat 100 lost souls in one game, but no pain elementals. (Very hard)
These actually depend on luck and not on skill :/
Agreed.
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
Defeat over 4 enemies in less than 10 turns. (Medium)
Trivial :)
It is now.
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
Beat the game on all 5 difficulties (Incredibly hard) (Also a skill goal)
Next to impossible concerning Nightmare :>. This will be the final challenge for the General skill rank.
Care to share a bit more info concerning nightmare mode?
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
Quoting: Thomas
Defeat 100 lost souls in one game (Hard)
Defeat 500 enemies in one game (Hard)
Defeat 100 lost souls in one game, but no pain elementals. (Very hard)
These actually depend on luck and not on skill :/
I assumed the new pain elementals spawned lost souls, was I wrong?
Oh, and I have gotten to the final boss of Hell's arena I think, does it go:
Demons, souls and cacos
Losta cacos
2 Barons (one of which I've killed. DOH!)
Quoting: Thomas
I assumed the new pain elementals spawned lost souls, was I wrong?
Yes, but they're buggy in the posted wad :>
Quoting: Thomas
Demons, souls and cacos
Losta cacos
2 Barons (one of which I've killed. DOH!)
*giggles*
Quoting: Anticheese
Just wondering, Do you have Arch-Viles implimented yet?
Not yet, but they are planned for this release. To do them tough, I will need to make each monster drop a distinct corpse-tile :/
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
Not yet, but they are planned for this release. To do them tough, I will need to make each monster drop a distinct corpse-tile :/
Another way to do it is to have a number of variables that track what died and where.
I.E Corpse1 = Former Human (16,24)
Quoting: Anticheese
Another way to do it is to have a number of variables that track what died and where.
This is an ugly "hack" solution. I would prefer to keep away from those :/
Quoting: STL
Don't tell me you are keeping track of everything by their apperance!
No, corpses are handeled exactly the same as normal terrain, that it they are referances to a tileset table.
Quoting: STL
Assuming the Pascal version/clone? you are using is object oriented (i.e. derived from Object Pascal), it'd be 10 minutes of coding.
The problem with DoomRL is the fact that it is a hybrid -- it was origianly built as a procedural program, then many parts were converted to OOP. The monsters, items etc, are OOP, but the terrain features are indexes to an feature array. Paradoxicaly this *IS* the best approach, only it could be implemented better :). Some rewrites to the code would be useful, but are not a priority (and priority rewrites would be the Vision, AI and DunGen code anyway).
Quoting: STL
If first sentence actually describes what you are doing right now, or even if it des not, I believe I can help you with general desing and other theoretical aspects of your game. If interested, let me know, so that I can give you an e-mail address that I check more frequently.
I've written four semi-complete roguelike games, and designed/prototyped and thrown away many, many more -- believe me, I know what I'm doing :).
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
Paradoxicaly this *IS* the best approach
Not really. In fact, the truth of the sentence depends on the meaning of "best". In true OOP fashion, The terrain should be an object, with every feature (I mean square, character, or whatever you call them) being an object inside that. I'm not saying the array would not be there, but it will not be exposed. This approach allows terrain to "behave" pretty easily, i.e. traps. This approach allows you to centralize the terrain related logic, so that tomorrow you can have non-squared terrain with minimum change in your code (not that you should, but you could). Always leave room for expansion.
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
believe me, I know what I'm doing
I didn't want to imply that you do not know what you are doing, I'm just trying to make what you are doing better, so that you can be better, so that you can really achieve something great(er) in the future. I like the fact that all by yourself you are achieving something that is loved by many people. Which makes me believe you have a great potential.
Quoting: STL
In true OOP fashion, The terrain should be an object, with every feature (I mean square, character, or whatever you call them) being an object inside that.
And that despite being correct OOP wise, is a real pain for a roguelike design :/. Not to mention memory consumption and processing speed.
I use a more complex system for GenRogue and Carceri (more OOP definitively). But DoomRL is intended to have it's limits. After I release the graphical 1.0.0, maybe make an extended 1.1 version, and maybe add a campaign editor and ladder, DoomRL will be considered "finished".
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
is a real pain for a roguelike design
Unless he is developing a roguelike, it may be hard to understand ;)
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
After I release the graphical 1.0.0, maybe make an extended 1.1 version, and maybe add a campaign editor and ladder, DoomRL will be considered "finished".
That's very nice to read ;)
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
is a real pain for a roguelike design :/.
That, I don't argue, definitely it will require time spent on it. But "best" is not often same as easy. That was my point. Also, something that looks as easy, can easily turn out to be taking more of your time in the end. That's why, I always prefer flexibility & robustness over easy. But yet, every artist has their own brush.
And just for the note: since the topic is on roguelike, it's very very hard to make something (sensible) that has problems with memory consumption or processing speed. Given any time, you can have at most 1600 items to work with. 1 kb each, and rest of your code etc, you have 2 MB memory consumption. Processing is not a big deal, since it's turn based.
Quoting: Santiago Zapata
Unless he is developing a roguelike, it may be hard to understand ;)
I am. Sort of. If you like pain, try a simple (pong?) realtime (as opposed to turn based) multiplayer game with more than two players playing at the same time. That problem gets real interesting real quick.
Anyway, If anyone needs to discuss something about computers, you know where to find me. I'll silently wait for next DoomRL version.
The problem with MMOPong is that you have conflicts of commands coming in on both sides and without any communication between teams you are just going to be stuck without a moving paddle, The best solution would be to have a visible queue of people and give each person 10 seconds.
Quoting: Santiago Zapata
After I release the graphical 1.0.0, maybe make an extended 1.1 version, and maybe add a campaign editor and ladder, DoomRL will be considered "finished".
That's very nice to read ;)
Agreed
Quoting: STL
That problem gets real interesting real quick.
That's an area I want to tackle, last real time game I created was about 4 years ago in QBasic, single player.
Quoting: STL
If anyone needs to discuss something about computers, you know where to find me.
Where?
Quoting: Anticheese
The problem with MMOPong is that you have conflicts of commands coming in on both sides and without any communication between teams you are just going to be stuck without a moving paddle, The best solution would be to have a visible queue of people and give each person 10 seconds.
Why do you assume there are only 2 paddles? What about 4, on each side of a square, or, 6, cubic version with 3D graphics, or just 2 sides with more than one paddle (of different colors to "parry" different colored balls) each. IMHO, every paddle should have only one controller. The possibilities are endless, although some of them are lacking feasibility. Also I wouldn't say MMOPong, something feasible with pong in Massive Multiplayer Online genre, IMO, would not look like Pong anymore.
Quoting: Santiago Zapata
Where?
I was meaning here. I check this forum at least 5 times a week, any discussions can go on in off-topic forum, so everyone can contribute. I'd say that is the best way.
I'd suggest C#, VB#, J# or Java for any kind of game, especially if it's multiplayer. I'd go with C++, C or Pascal for games that really need to squeeze resources out of the computer.
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
I'd suggest C#, VB# if you want to annoy the hell out of Linux people, and put your 0,02 M$ into the monopoly :)
1- They are free. See Visual Studio 2005 Express Edition.
2- Linux is not for gaming :). Also I believe there are some C# and VB# compilers for Linux around, but I might be wrong.
If you want 95% platform independency, go with Java. Java is flexible, almost completely platform independent, and very slow.
If you want to run your game on multiple platforms, IMO, the most efficient way of doing it it using C++ or C. You should split your game into two parts: Game and Platform. Game should only be data structures, algorithms etc for your game. Platform should be the part where you interact with OS (graphics, sound, file system etc.). Why C/C++? Because every platform (Windows, Linux, MacOs, Solaris etc.) has a compiler for them.
Quoting: STL
If you want 95% platform independency, go with Java
Yeah, abandon FreePascal and go with Java! ;)
Quoting: STL
2- Linux is not for gaming :).
Woot!?
Quoting: STL
You should split your game into two parts: Game and Platform. Game should only be data structures, algorithms etc for your game. Platform should be the part where you interact with OS (graphics, sound, file system etc.)
I am sure Kornel knows about this ;)
Actually I myself split the game into four parts: Game, Engine, User Interface and System interface. The Game-Engine splitting, as known by anybody who's got into RL development, is the one that make your head hurt and I now think should be avoided. I wrote a small text about it sometime ago, you all can find it at http://peltkore.net/~szdev/ga/eng/docs/layers.htm
Quoting: Santiago Zapata
Yeah, abandon FreePascal and go with Java! ;)
I'm hoping you are not suggesting pascal (or *pascal* ) is platform independent.
Your article can be a good start for beginners. But I didn't understand why would you place UI in a seperate bin. It's rather an interesting idea to split Game from UI, why would you change Game or UI independent from each other?
And again, I'm not saying what Kornel knows/doesn't know/can do/cannot do/whatever. Whether anyone realizes or not, there are people in this forum who want to get started on doing something on their own, I'm merely trying to help them.
Quoting: STL
I'm hoping you are not suggesting pascal (or *pascal* ) is platform independent.
That's the whole point : you obviously have some proper education in the IT field, but don't now all the nuisances yet. DoomRL is written in FreePascal ( http://www.freepascal.org/ ) and FreePascal IS highly portable. The number of supported platforms is great, and the portability of FreePascal code is a lot greater then C/C++ code.
Quoting: STL
But I didn't understand why would you place UI in a seperate bin. It's rather an interesting idea to split Game from UI, why would you change Game or UI independent from each other?
Well, more than separate bins, I am talking about separate modules on the same bin, if your implementation language allows that...
The idea of Game and UI being independant is to allow replacement of these modules via definted "interfaces" so that only one Game has to be mantained but several representations can be provided
Quoting: STL
I'm merely trying to help them.
Ok ;)
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
FreePascal IS highly portable. The number of supported platforms is great, and the portability of FreePascal code is a lot greater then C/C++ code
Ok, let me explain:
Portable : You implement your program, build and run it on a single platform. You bring your source code to other platform, fix it for platform differences, build and compile it. Repeat for each and every possible platform you need to support.
Platform Independent: You implement your program, and you are done.
So, portability is not platform independency. Since no one, including the developers of these games, expects this games to work on every platform, it's not a big issue. But everyone wants to support main platforms. Just for the sake of argument, if you used a platform independent language such as Java, there would not be a Linux version, there would be only one version that works both on Windows and Linux (and MacOs, and Solaris, and... well you get the idea).
I've checked out the FreePascal site, and in the main page, they say that they are supporting 9 OS and 4 processors. FYI: C/C++ is supported virtualy on every OS and processor.
Quoting: Santiago Zapata
The idea of Game and UI being independant is to allow replacement of these modules via definted "interfaces" so that only one Game has to be mantained but several representations can be provided
Ok, It's just you are considering Game = Logic of the game (internal objects data structures etc), UI = (UI interactions of the user that is based on the logic, which makes the real gameplay experience).
Quoting: STL
I've checked out the FreePascal site, and in the main page, they say that they are supporting 9 OS and 4 processors. FYI: C/C++ is supported virtualy on every OS and processor.
Tell me at least one that is not listed there, that I should care about ;].
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
Tell me at least one that is not listed there, that I should care about ;].
That's the whole point, you should't care about any. :)
Not everyone feels comfortable porting their game between platforms.
Again, this is not for you, it looks like you can take care of yourself just fine.
Quoting: Kornel Kisielewicz
Quoting: Thomas
Do a partial victory without using a thermie (Hard)
I don't get it :/. How?
Simple, all you have to do is show the Cyber-demon who's boss, and live to tell the tale.