Chaosforge Forum

DoomRL => Requests For Features => Topic started by: Ultimate Carl on November 20, 2005, 00:28

Title: A few ideas...
Post by: Ultimate Carl on November 20, 2005, 00:28
I'm not sure HOW, but I kinda' think that we should either give melee some boosts or drop it altogether.  The knife is completely useless, and while the chainsaw can be fun, it's also useless.  In one post someone mentioned imitating the "stunning" effect that the chainsaw had in Doom and Doom II.  I think that's a great idea, and I don't think it would be overpowered: you'd still have to get into melee range in the first place, and you're only stunning ONE enemy.  I dunno.

It'd also be nice to see Doom 64's double chainsaw.  As for the knife... I dunno, keep it I 'spose, but at least beef it up a bit.  And maybe change it into a rifle+bayonet without the shooting?  It'd be more Doom-like than the knife.  Wolfenstein might've had one, but Doom never had a knife.  However, one of the early Alpha versions of Doom (you can find it floating about on the 'net) contained a rifle as a weapon, and your melee attack was a bayonet, not fists.  Maybe spiked brass knuckles of some kind? you can clearly see brass knuckles on the fist of the marine in Doom and Doom II.

Enough melee talk, I got some traits now.  I don't think you'd want to implement them exactly as I present them, but something similar... Both are sort of 'fixes' to what I find to be little annoyances.

Calm
Full-auto weapons (Chaingun and Plasma Rifle) will cease fire after the enemy is dead.  However, Berserk packs now heal only as much as a small health globe, and do not give the character the berserk effect.

^ I realize that you shouldn't be using a Plasma Rifle on anything that'll die in only a few hits, but it really annoys me to kill something with the first blast, and then completely waste those other 7 plasma cells on the nearest wall. This isn't so much of a problem with the chaingun since 10mm is EVERYWHERE, but it'd still be nice. I mean, when you're playing Doom, you don't continue to hold down the fire button for another two seconds after you've killed your target, do you?

Calculating
When aiming or looking, the explosion range of all barrels in sight are shown.  When aiming with a blast-radius weapon (Rocket Launcer and BFG) the explosion range for that weapon will be shown as well.

^ This'll unfortunately cut down on the funny YASDs... But nothing gets me more mad than blowing myself up.  It also makes me really mad when I'm gonna take out a group of formers with a barrel, and I end up falling one square short, then they tear me up.  Or when I'm trying to blow a passage open without destroying that switch or health globe I'm saving for later... I think this could add an interesting bit of strategy as you could plan exactly where the best place to launch that rocket is.  Maybe it'd a two-level, and the first level lets you view barrel range and the second is rocket/BFG range.

Splasher
When aiming a blast-radius weapon (Rocket Launcher and BFG) you may select to target an empty space.

^ Shooting the ground to hit your enemy with splash damage, increasing your hit chance but reducing your damage.  I realize this concept is mostly applied to deathmatch, and wasn't widely used until Quake, but you COULD do it in Doom and Doom II, and it's there in Doom III.  This could add an extra bit of strategy as well.  I've been in more than one situation where if I were allowed to target the floor the splash would've caught an entire group, but targeting the nearest wall or a specific enemy would've left out quite a few.

That's about all I've got.  I do have one other little thing, though, and that's red-colored objects and enemies.  When the blood starts to fly, it becomes very, VERY difficult to notice these things. light-red objects aren't so bad, but dark-red stuff blends in very very badly.  I can't tell you how many times I've been surprised-raped by a Caco because I couldn't even SEE it.  I'm sure I've missed some medkits, too.  Now, I realize that the red color makes sense for medkits, and Cacos and other red stuff are red in the original games... But can't ya do something about this?

Thanks for your time, sorry I'm so long winded!
Title: A few ideas...
Post by: Turgor on November 20, 2005, 01:09
ok, first off, the stunning.. love it! yeah you just stun one monster, and make it not stun the cyberdeamon and the chainsaw a great melee weapon!

now, the rest: Calm: i always stop shooting after i kill the baddies.. sometimes it may take a long time, but that's good cause i hate those breaks between killing one group of baddies and killing the next. (but seriously, there's enough plasma cells in most games.. unless you get very unlucky.)

Calculating: i know those explosion ranges.. i know the duration of berserk after taking the chainsaw and 4 berserck packs too. i play this game too much.

Splasher: you mean shooting at the ground? yeah that would be great...  offcourse, you realize that enemies could do this too right? so maybe dodging would become worthless.. hmm i think it would change the game a lot if this was implemented.

edit: how could you not notice a caco? it's a big friggin O!!
Title: A few ideas...
Post by: LAN fan on November 20, 2005, 02:58
The traits sound good - especially since you'll be foregoing things like Cat Eye or Iron Skin.  ;-)

I completely agree with the chainsaw stun and brass knuckle idea.
Title: A few ideas...
Post by: Ultimate Carl on November 20, 2005, 07:02
Quoting: Turgor
(but seriously, there's enough plasma cells in most games.. unless you get very unlucky.)


I can barely get enough cells to take down a room of Arachs, let alone have spares for the BFG later. I guess I'm just REALLY unlucky.


Quoting: Turgor
Calculating: i know those explosion ranges..


That's a good point. I completely forgot to think that any reasonably intelligent player (not me) would have all the explosion ranges memorized.  But I guess when you're blasting stuff in a hurry you could notice when you otherwise wouldn't that you're in the blast radius.  Maybe it would be a warning and you have to confirm fire?  I dunno.  Thanks for pointing out the lameness of this idea. XD


Quoting: Turgor
Splasher: you mean shooting at the ground? yeah that would be great... offcourse, you realize that enemies could do this too right? so maybe dodging would become worthless.. hmm i think it would change the game a lot if this was implemented.


Well, since it's a trait and not actually a full-game tweak.  Maybe give it as a special ability that only SOME enemies have, if any.  Like maybe Cacos can do it, but Imps can't?  And besides, for non-explosion attacks this wouldn't make any difference, so dodging would still be perfectly viable against almost all enemies.  Perhaps add a small miss chance to this, as well, making your rocket keep going past that square?  Like a 5% or so, maybe modified by your traits and tactics?  Perhaps even have a higher modifier for deeper floor numbers?  Nah, that'd seem too much like the FLOOR was dodging you... XD


Quoting: Turgor
edit: how could you not notice a caco? it's a big friggin O!!


Yeah, but it's also the exact same color as blood. If you massacre an entire room, then you're picking up the spoils, and a Caco that missed the previous fight sneaks into the room and moves ONLY on blood-tiles, it's pretty easy to miss.


I'd also like to point out that the chainsaw stun was NOT my idea!  It was someone else's, brought up in another thread.  I'm too lazy to go find out whose right now, but I just wanted to make sure I don't take credit for someone ELSE'S idea!
Title: A few ideas...
Post by: JimmyJ on November 21, 2005, 01:37
Chainsaw stun -----=Good

The calm thingie------=Good

The barrel explosion thingie-------=good to me, if you don't need it, don't use it :)
Title: A few ideas...
Post by: Obscillesk on November 21, 2005, 22:13
The explosion trait would be good to have if say, the Angel of Explosions mode is imped :)
Title: A few ideas...
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on November 28, 2005, 18:34
Quoting: Ultimate Carl
I'm not sure HOW, but I kinda' think that we should either give melee some boosts or drop it altogether. The knife is completely useless, and while the chainsaw can be fun, it's also useless. In one post someone mentioned imitating the "stunning" effect that the chainsaw had in Doom and Doom II. I think that's a great idea, and I don't think it would be overpowered: you'd still have to get into melee range in the first place, and you're only stunning ONE enemy. I dunno.

Im going to rethink that for the next version.

Quoting: Ultimate Carl
Calm

How should the program decide wether to stop shooting or not? Imagine a corridor full of baddies. You shoot your plasma, and with the frst shot you kill the first monster. Should the system stop? Or should it fire because there are still monsters in the line of fire?
Title: A few ideas...
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on November 28, 2005, 18:35
Quoting: Ultimate Carl
Calculating

That would be too easy :]. One of the marks of a DoomRL pro is that he can judge the distance himself :-D
Title: A few ideas...
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on November 28, 2005, 18:36
Quoting: Ultimate Carl
Splasher
When aiming a blast-radius weapon (Rocket Launcher and BFG) you may select to target an empty space.

That may be available without a trait in the future.
Title: A few ideas...
Post by: vdeogmer on December 09, 2005, 00:12
How about light red for all items not blood-related?

Sure, some items would be indistinguishable from each other, but at least you could see something and tell that it's not just blood in a hurry...
Title: A few ideas...
Post by: LAN fan on December 09, 2005, 03:42
Kornel, a pro would be able to judge the distances for himself, and thus not need that trait - so they can pick a more useful one.  ;-)

A beginner might pick that trait, and make dealing with barrels easier, but it makes the game harder to win since that trait slot could be put to better use with Cat Eye or something.

So learning to judge the distances has its advantages because it essentially saves a trait.
Title: A few ideas...
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on December 09, 2005, 04:36
Still, it's non-trivial to implement, so why waste that "feature-slot" for explosion sight, while I could implement another exciting level type instead? ^_^
Title: A few ideas...
Post by: Vin on December 09, 2005, 13:43
In regards to 'calm'...how about it having multiple levels. First level it'll stop firing if the target dies and there are no other targets on a direct line-of-fire with the target(so the shots are guaranteed to be wasted.) The second level would have it swap targets to the next closest enemy after the first one died. Might need some tweaks to check for barrels first, though. "OMG don't shoot th-" :)