Chaosforge Forum

DoomRL => Discussion => Topic started by: bleak on February 27, 2011, 14:19

Title: Quick questions thread!
Post by: bleak on February 27, 2011, 14:19
Didn't see one of these yet, and it seems like a good idea. So, let me start off with a little poll: AoMr chained court: yea or nay? Personally I like to go the normal route, because I rarely am equipped to tackle the arena OR the altered chained court by the time I face them in AoMr. Add to that the chance of better items and I almost invariably take the normal route. I might take the chained court route if I'm really hurting for health, or if I need an early EXP boost by killing those cacos that like to hang out there after I skipped the arena.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thexare on February 27, 2011, 14:25
If you haven't beaten the Arena, you have no reason not to take the Chained Court. Guaranteed exp and ammo, and it's stupidly easy.

If you have beaten the Arena, you still should unless you don't have the resources to take the Master. The Arena Master's Staff is amazing when you find a pack of Lost Souls (or spawn in one on a new level!) and it guarantees your ability to get the two Agility mods - already putting you halfway to two Speedloader Pistols.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Deathwind on February 27, 2011, 20:40
That staff does many powerful and thought to be impossible things.

edit: I hate auto correct sometimes
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on February 27, 2011, 20:41
That staff does many powerful and thought to be imposable things.
Imposable?

O.O
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Deathwind on February 27, 2011, 21:06
Where does one find schematics anyway?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on February 27, 2011, 21:53
Where does one find schematics anyway?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm assuming you meant in-game, if you just want them now they're on the wiki.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on February 27, 2011, 21:53
Where does one find schematics anyway?
HAr HAr HAr...

Simon-v should get the reference.  ;-)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Deathwind on February 27, 2011, 22:46
I've got mods here but no schematics...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sambojin on February 27, 2011, 23:19
The question of whether or not to do them on AoMr is just a difficulty level thing. On HMP or less, then definately do both. On UV or N! it really does depend on equipment and experience.

But you do get a supercharge, a large healthpack, 2 agility mods and the staff after you've finished them, and a lot of XP as well. On HMP or less the new arena is pretty easy really. Grab the chainsaw, grab the berserk packs, change back to pistol and head left. Kill the arena master whilst totally ignoring everything else. Then kill everything else. Get either some nice tactical boots or agility modded pistols for your troubles. You can kill the arena master whilst still berserk almost every time (saving you stacks of health while peons shoot you).

It's a very nice bonus early in the game if you do both levels on AoMr.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: bleak on February 28, 2011, 11:32
I've tried AoMr on HNTR plenty of times and in a lot of ways it feels harder than AoMr on HMP. The thing that hurts the most is the lack of experience. in that scenario, I am maybe level 6 by the time I get to level 15, and so the bruise brothers are a tad difficult to take on. I've also never managed to defeat the arena on HNTR AoMr, simply because all you have is a pistol with level 2 SoG and maybe a couple med packs. Not sure how you're meant to handle all the demons and like, what, six cacodemons with just a pistol. At least on AoSh I've got a combat shotgun, but in that case it's dead easy. I'm assuming it's (meaning AoMr arena on HNTR) just massively difficult to do, but I also imagine if you can pull it off you'll be set for the rest of the game, especially if you're also able to take out the arena master. But I don't see that happening. HMP? Sure, but not HNTR.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: grommile on February 28, 2011, 14:36
I've also never managed to defeat the arena on HNTR AoMr, simply because all you have is a pistol with level 2 SoG and maybe a couple med packs.
Arena with the entrance on L:2 is probably not a viable exercise for HNTR AoMr runs. Arena with the entrance on L:3 is another matter. The variance in the amount of armour and medicine you have at the end of L:3 is huge, no matter what difficulty you're playing on; some games I've had sucky luck and played badly and ended up with none left of either; others I've had amazing luck and finished L:3 with ten medpacks and four armours.

And of course, the Arena's difficulty is subject to hideous variance itself, due to the large random factors that apply (position of enemies; layout of pillars).

(Not that I've actually completed the Arena on AoMr, as far as I can remember...)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Nameless on February 28, 2011, 16:09
Completing the arena with AoMr isn't too hard using the same general strategy as with shotguns, you just need a lot of patience and a lot of ammo to waste firing blindly around corners until you actually hit anything.

I'm was too cowardly to try take on the Arena Master last time, though.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Kamikaze14 on March 01, 2011, 04:31
I've found that you usually hit level 3 during the arena then DG makes it a breeze as long as they don't all swarm you at once.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Kamikaze14 on March 01, 2011, 11:23
My turn to ask a question.  Phaseshift armor or tactical armor?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on March 01, 2011, 11:44
Phaseshift is going to be faster (especially if you mod it) but there's a rather large knockback penalty and doesn't regenerate. If you're crunched for space, keep the tactical armor, but otherwise have the phaseshift ready for speeding through tight spots (or if you actually want the knockback).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on March 01, 2011, 14:32
How does wall-breaking work?  I know you need explosive or plasma damage, but I'm not sure how much.

When you only have one shell in your double shotgun, what happens when you fire normally?  Do you get the triple blast?  If not, how about the super shotgun (since that doesn't have a single-fire)?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: bleak on March 02, 2011, 12:13
How much time does it take to switch to a prepared weapon? How about an unprepared weapon (by pressing the number keys)?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on March 02, 2011, 12:28
How does wall-breaking work?  I know you need explosive or plasma damage, but I'm not sure how much.
The HP/armor of walls hasn't been checked lately, although I'm imagine the stats are there. Some people can check these (or maybe Kornel could just tell us) so I hope they will respond to you. I've found that you need something like ~12 plasma damage to successfully deal damage to a wall, although destroying it means you need to damage it enough times. As for fire, I know that micro launcher (5d5) often only breaks one or two walls out of every ten, but the typical RL (6d6) usually gets around half.

When you only have one shell in your double shotgun, what happens when you fire normally?  Do you get the triple blast?  If not, how about the super shotgun (since that doesn't have a single-fire)?
Using the alt-fire on a double shotgun uses an attack like a single shotgun, except with the double's spread/range (which is to say, worse). There's very little reason to use it unless your double is heavily modded and would therefore be better than a shotgun. It's mostly for ammo conservation purposes or if you can't easily swap to a better weapon.

How much time does it take to switch to a prepared weapon? How about an unprepared weapon (by pressing the number keys)?
Swapping is 8 turns (0.8s) between equipped/prepped slot. I would assume that quickkeys are a typical 10-turn (1.0s) but, since they are included in Juggler benefits, it's worth checking out. If you want to self-test this, do the following:

- Use @ to check turn count
- Leave, info screen, Swap via quickkey
- Check turn count again
- Count(final) - Count(initial) = turns needed

You can do this to check anything, really. For unviewable turn counts, and a lot of other neat stuff, this Wiki page (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/index.php?title=Minor#Time_cost_of_player_actions) has a lot to offer.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: bleak on March 02, 2011, 12:57
Ah, thanks for the tip. As it turns out, quickkeys too take 0.8s to switch to. The more you know! Now I know to keep an extra chaingun handy instead of just reloading it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on March 02, 2011, 16:01
Using the alt-fire on a double shotgun uses an attack like a single shotgun, except with the double's spread/range (which is to say, worse). There's very little reason to use it unless your double is heavily modded and would therefore be better than a shotgun. It's mostly for ammo conservation purposes or if you can't easily swap to a better weapon.

What I meant there was using the normal-fire when you have only one shell loaded.  experimentally, I think you just get a single-Fire but I'm not sure.  And that makes me wonder about the super shotgun, since it doesn't have single-Fire.

thanks for the wall info, hopefully somebody with more exact details comes by.

interesting that quickkeys are also quick, I thought they were just for juggler!  though you still can't use them to avoid a reload unless you are juggler (prepare, drop empty, prepare new will take 2.1, better to just equip from inventory)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sambojin on March 02, 2011, 17:00
Yeah, firing off all your rounds of a chaingun and trying to quickswap to the chaingun in your inventory doesn't work. Quickswap always puts the gun with the lowest amount of ammo left into your prepared slot to avoid abuse.

But one from your inventory in 1.0secs isn't bad considering the normal reload time of chainguns. Or shotguns/rocket launchers for that matter.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Errant on March 03, 2011, 11:26
But one from your inventory in 1.0secs isn't bad considering the normal reload time of chainguns. Or shotguns/rocket launchers for that matter.

If I'm using a combat shotgun and I don't have shottyman (not always efficient to move even if I do), I often draw a spare. If I'm under enough pressure that five shots didn't solve the problem, I sure don't want to be reloading individual shells when I can just whip out a fresh gun.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Nameless on March 05, 2011, 02:18
This is bugging me 'cause I'm only missing 2 specials: How do you get Azrael's Scythe? I did what the wiki said (100% kills, HMP difficulty) but Longinus spawned as normal. :/
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tavana on March 05, 2011, 02:31
In the current version of the game, it's a percentage chance that the Scythe will spawn. It won't be random in the next version.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Ander Hammer on May 15, 2011, 00:14
Ao100 doesn't have access to special levels... the only places things like the chainsaw and the backpack can be found. Can you still get them somehow?

And why isn't there a general 'ask a question, get an answer' thread here?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aoi on May 15, 2011, 00:39
No backpack, but a few versions back, you could find the chainsaw. It's actually just an ordinary exotic that happens to have a guaranteed spawn in the normal mode.

Edit: Confirmed, you can still find the chainsaw randomly in the latest version. Happened to find this specific one on... Phobos Hell L21 in an Ao100 run.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Ander Hammer on May 15, 2011, 02:59
Oho... it must be pretty incredibly rare, then, as I've never seen it outside of the Chained Court in any of my dozens of games.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on May 15, 2011, 05:39
Wild chainsaws are not likely to occur in normal games -- it is only in Ao100 that you have a much higher chance of seeing it.

As for the backpack, no, you do not see it wild ever.  Come to think of it, has anyone seen a BFG9000 in the wild for Ao100 or any other game modes?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ParaSait on May 15, 2011, 05:56
Hah. I found one mid-game in one of my first 0993 runs.
And the interesting thing is that I, however, did not find a cleaver yet. :D
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Ander Hammer on May 15, 2011, 19:07
Very rare wild backpacks in Ao100 would be kind of cool.

And AoD spawns that drop the Longinus Spear if you kill him without shooting a single bullet at him.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on May 15, 2011, 21:08
Wild chainsaws are not likely to occur in normal games -- it is only in Ao100 that you have a much higher chance of seeing it.

As for the backpack, no, you do not see it wild ever.  Come to think of it, has anyone seen a BFG9000 in the wild for Ao100 or any other game modes?
Very rare wild backpacks in Ao100 would be kind of cool.
Why do we keep calling it wild? This isn't Pokemon...

Code: [Select]
A wild CHAINSAW approaches!
Get 'em, SHOTGUN!

CHAINSAW uses BLOODGOD!
CHAINSAW's DEF rises sharply!
CHAINSAW's ATK rises sharply!
CHAINSAW's SPD rises sharply!
SHOTGUN uses JUGGLER!
Hits 2 times!
CHAINSAW uses RIP!
Critical hit!
SHOTGUN uses ASSEMBLY!
SHOTGUN transforms into ELPHTGUN!
CHAINSAW uses TEAR!
ELPHTGUN uses SHRAPNEL!
It's super effective!
CHAINSAW uses GUTS!
CHAINSAW is storing energy.
Go! Pickup!
(locks in place)
You caught CHAINSAW!
Would you like to give CHAINSAW a nickname?
CHAINSAW -> ZERKSAW

In all seriousness, all pinks (exotics) can be found as a random drop. This includes chainsaws, BFG9000s, nuclear plasma rifles/BFG9000s, assault shotguns, and missile launchers. And possibly anything else I didn't think of. Limes (uniques) are always found randomly, while yellows (artifacts) are never found randomly.

I've actually seen a random chainsaw spawn in a non-A100 game, though when you're not playing a melee run, there isn't much point to it (the zerk effect only activates for the first pickup).

And why isn't there a general 'ask a question, get an answer' thread here?
We had a "quick questions" thread a while back (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,3999.0.html), feel free to reuse it if you want. It's not stickied, although it may be a good idea to have one anyway.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on May 15, 2011, 21:13
Stickied + merged for great justice.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Dorten on May 26, 2011, 22:38
About wall destruction. Data from 9.9.2, though:

AoMC.
10 dmg plasma - can't shoot through
11 dmg plasma - 10 hits to break
12 dmg plasma - 5 hits to break

11 dmg bullet - can't shoot through

So the closest estimate: 10HP and 20 armor. With 1/2 armor reduction for plasma working as with enemies
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: void on May 31, 2011, 20:54
Quick question:

Is it so that all assemblies cannot be modded further?
If so, Is there any reason to high-power mod a weapon if I have whizkid? (so that instead of PB mod I can just apply PPP and enjoy 2 other mods)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on May 31, 2011, 21:00
1) Assemblies can be modded further given the correct conditions. See here (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,4324.0.html) (Game Hunter's post).

2) You might want a high-power weapon if you only have 1 power mod or if you want to use power mods on other things.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tiberius on June 01, 2011, 00:13
Quick stupid question.  Can you transfer data from an earlier version of the game to a later one?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on June 01, 2011, 00:36
player.wad (and probably score.wad) are compatible with all versions 0.9.9.0 and later and will be compatible for all future versions.  Saved games are generally not compatible between versions.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on June 01, 2011, 00:39
Additionally, the save file of one game from the previous version does not carry forward though.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Deathwind on June 01, 2011, 00:41
and there are some minor issues with the number special items it claims you found if you are coming from 0.9.9.0
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: DarkMatt on June 10, 2011, 07:47
If you take a master trait that blocks a trait you have levels in, does it plain disable the trait's effects or do you still get the benefits from it?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: s0ulman on June 10, 2011, 08:08
If you take a master trait that blocks a trait you have levels in, does it plain disable the trait's effects or do you still get the benefits from it?
You can't take a master trait if you have levels in any of the traits it blocks.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: DarkMatt on June 10, 2011, 13:26
That makes sense.

This next question's about schematics. So far I've only gotten most of the basic assemblies. A third from playing with mods and the rest from the schematics found at Hell's Armory. Last couple of times I was there I didn't get any schematics, so I'm starting to think the game's done with handing them out.

Anyway, my question is, "What other ways are there to get schematics aside from completing Hell's Armoury?"
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on June 10, 2011, 13:30
The answer is "no except building and experimenting on assemblies yourself".
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: s0ulman on June 10, 2011, 14:25
Also, remember that schematics for advanced and master assemblies do appear in Hell's Armory sometimes if you are playing Ultra Violence or Nightmare!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: bardysya on June 14, 2011, 12:18
My question may be  kinda  childish, but there it is: Can I play DoomRL without sound? If answer is yes, how?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on June 14, 2011, 12:40
Can I play DoomRL without sound? If answer is yes, how?
Two options here:

1. Check out the config.lua file in your DoomRL folder. There should be settings called GameSound and GameMusic: setting these to false will remove all sound and music from the game.

2. "(" Turns off sound in-game, ")" turns off music. You can press them again to turn the sound/music back on. (Note that this only works once you actually begin playing, not on the main menu.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: alver on June 14, 2011, 13:19
Where's the "I Win" button in this game?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on June 14, 2011, 13:32
Where's the "I Win" button in this game?

F4 then F6.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on June 14, 2011, 16:55
F4 then F6.
Sorry folks, God Kit only.

>.>
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: BirdoPrey on June 14, 2011, 18:41
how i shot demon
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Silhar on June 14, 2011, 19:17
Protip: Use a gun.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ParaSait on June 14, 2011, 19:35
Noobtip: Preferably an ingame one. Otherwise might become a little expensive, especially if you have a modern HD screen.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on June 14, 2011, 19:45
Guys, keep the humour tuned down.  This is supposed to be a helpful thread for quick questions -- having too much humour posts will defeat the purpose.

Hell, if this becomes a pure humour thread, I'm going to unsticky this one.

My question may be  kinda  childish, but there it is: Can I play DoomRL without sound? If answer is yes, how?
The thing about this is that if you play DoomRL without sound, you will lose a very large cue on where monsters are, since the monster sound is weakly directional, giving you the hints on where might the monsters be.

I used to play without sound, but didn't manage to get very far in the end.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: bardysya on June 15, 2011, 03:08

The thing about this is that if you play DoomRL without sound, you will lose a very large cue on where monsters are, since the monster sound is weakly directional, giving you the hints on where might the monsters be.

I used to play without sound, but didn't manage to get very far in the end.

I know, this is hard to complete DoomRL without sound, but my sound card was broken and I couldn't play DoomRL, because of critical error.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: SlyJohnny on June 24, 2011, 09:17
The nuclear BFG and plasma rifle can be overloaded into a nuke. Does it detonate immediately, or is there a countdown like with the nuclear bomb?

...Prompt answers appreciated. I'm staring at the cyberdemon right now and want to know whether to pop my lava element before or after. >_<
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: SlyJohnny on June 24, 2011, 09:49
Never mind. I took a stab in the dark, and it turns out you do get a 10 second coutdown.

Well, that was easy! I didn't even need any medpacks. The game's not so bad when you amass an arsenal powerful enough to blow up a planet.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: bardysya on June 25, 2011, 03:10
Please, say me how to understand weapon damage like 2d4 or 9d9?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thomas on June 25, 2011, 03:54
d stands for dice.

2d4 means that it rolls 2 four-sided dice, making the damage range 2 to 8. 9d9 means to roll 9 nine-sided dice, making the damage range 9 to 81.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: bardysya on June 25, 2011, 04:13
Thanks a lot, Thomas!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Angles of death on June 26, 2011, 02:12
Am I meant to find Blood Skulls out of the City of Skulls? I have found two. 1 in Angel of 100 and 1 in the regular game.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on June 26, 2011, 03:08
Am I meant to find Blood Skulls out of the City of Skulls? I have found two. 1 in Angel of 100 and 1 in the regular game.
They're exotics, so I'd say so.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on June 26, 2011, 10:07
Am I meant to find Blood Skulls out of the City of Skulls?
All exotics and uniques can be found at any point, barring minimum floor requirements. Uniques (should) appear only once per game, as long as you picked up that unique.

The only equipment that can only be found in certain levels are artifacts, denoted by a yellow character. There are currently only four of said items, so you probably know what they are.

The nuclear BFG and plasma rifle can be overloaded into a nuke. Does it detonate immediately, or is there a countdown like with the nuclear bomb?
Other than the Trigun's alt reload, all nuclear devices manually activate on a 10-second timer. (So if you didn't know about Trigun, there you go.) On the other hand, it's not a good idea to be activating one while standing on acid or lava...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Firstblood on July 21, 2011, 04:21
I have a quick question about Longinus Diamond Badge.
"Longinus Diamond Badge - Complete Unholy Cathedral on N! without Brute"

Can you take the Brute trait after UC or do you need to finish the game without it?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on July 21, 2011, 04:28
Can you take the Brute trait after UC or do you need to finish the game without it?

The badge is checked when leaving the UC. After you have left the UC, you are free to take some levels in Brute; you will still get the badge.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Ander Hammer on July 28, 2011, 19:42
On the other hand, it's not a good idea to be activating one while standing on acid or lava...

What happens?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on July 28, 2011, 20:58
Heh, that's actually a good question. If you know a thing or two about nukes, you might think that nothing happens, since the reaction never occurs. It turns out,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: The Page on July 28, 2011, 23:00
When dodging, do you have to be actually perpendicular to the attack, or does it work regardless of angle (as long as you're not moving on the same trajectory as the attack)? I never was sure about that.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on July 29, 2011, 00:55
On a successful dodge roll, the enemy will target the square where you started your last turn. So, the move doesn't have to be exactly perpendicular, but it can't be along the path of the projectile.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Ander Hammer on July 29, 2011, 03:55
It turns out,

Exactly as I figured but was too lazy/busy to try and figure out.

Does the same thing happen if enough damage is done by an explosion covering its square, or if by some contrivance the square turns to acid/lava while it's deployed?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: The Page on July 29, 2011, 06:18
On a successful dodge roll, the enemy will target the square where you started your last turn. So, the move doesn't have to be exactly perpendicular, but it can't be along the path of the projectile.

Ah, thank you kindly.

Do different weapons/attacks have different dodge rates? I've noticed that, for example, I can dodge pretty much all of one Baron's or one Knight's attacks save one or two, but former humans with pistols hit far more often.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on July 29, 2011, 10:24
Do different weapons/attacks have different dodge rates? I've noticed that, for example, I can dodge pretty much all of one Baron's or one Knight's attacks save one or two, but former humans with pistols hit far more often.
Yes. Some actual data on these differences can be found here (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Dodging) (I don't know if some of the notes are correct, but the numbers definitely are).

Also, in general, try looking at the wiki before asking a question here: it's usually faster for everyone involved. (Often this is a good place for more obscure information.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: The Page on July 29, 2011, 20:03
Okay, thanks! I only started leafing through the wiki recently, so I wasn't exactly sure if the info I was looking for was there. Thanks again
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Missileboater on July 31, 2011, 12:21
For Gatekeeper Platinum ( "Pass the Hellgate on N! w/o taking damage" ), what exactly does that mean?

In a recent N! AoRA attempt, I think I stacked enough invulnerability to run through Hellgate without taking damage, but I did not get the badge. Only thing I did other than running was pick up a Large Health Globe at the beginning to get my health up, but I did have Badass so there shouldn't have been any health loss. Projectiles did "hit" me and caused knockback, but pretty sure I didn't take damage.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on July 31, 2011, 16:18
For Gatekeeper Platinum, I suspect the issue is that the badge is disabled if the level is nuked (as with some other high-end level specific badges). I might consider unfortunate combination with AoRA a bug. ):

Health decay from more than 100% health doesn't count as taking damage.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Missileboater on July 31, 2011, 21:33
Ah, thanks for the response. Would've been nice to have something to show for getting so far on the first try, then dying because the RNG decided to hide the stairs in a corner somewhere.

Just wanted to make sure it is really "taking no damage" not "taking any direct hits" or something strange like that.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Dreadlord on August 02, 2011, 08:13
I've found the Cybernetic Armor in the Armory, and after a freak accident at the Wall I was forced to equip it, or to be torn apart by several Barons of Hell. Since I cannot remove the damn thing, I have some questions about it.

Can it be destroyed?

How moddable it is? Can I bump it up with several mods or it has only one mod slot regardless of Whizkid? Can assembly recipes be applied to it?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Missileboater on August 02, 2011, 08:25
I've found the Cybernetic Armor in the Armory, and after a freak accident at the Wall I was forced to equip it, or to be torn apart by several Barons of Hell. Since I cannot remove the damn thing, I have some questions about it.

Can it be destroyed?

How moddable it is? Can I bump it up with several mods or it has only one mod slot regardless of Whizkid? Can assembly recipes be applied to it?

The wiki actually has the answer to all your questions here: http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Cybernetic_Armor (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Cybernetic_Armor)

I believe I saw someone's mortem that made a 'Cybernano Cybernetic armor', which was ridiculous.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Dreadlord on August 02, 2011, 08:33
Oh, that made everything clear. So, if it is fully damaged, it will just have laughable protection value?

//Too bad this character died, and his death is a great example of stupid deaths, accidentally stepped into lava with low health...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Missileboater on August 02, 2011, 08:41
Yep, if it's fully damaged it'll just stay on you giving no protection at all while still slowing you down. The Cybernetic armor is really a last resort armor when there aren't any other options.

P.S. Stupid deaths happen to all of us. My worst one is corner shooting with a tactical shotgun, then trying to fire while it's empty. Of course the damn "EmptyConfirm = true" line doesn't work with tactical shotguns for some reason, and my character runs into a horde of enemies.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Missileboater on August 05, 2011, 12:47
I just finished running through Angel of 100 on UV, but after reading through the mortem I'm curious about why there weren't many commandos in the run. It says I only killed 13 commandos in the entire run, which just seems odd since I thought they were one of the "tough" enemies in the game and the only enemies with lower kill counts were bosses and nightmare Arch-viles. If I recall correctly, I don't think I really saw any past like the 40s or 50s. I don't know, is there a reason why there are so little of them?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on August 05, 2011, 13:11
Commandos never appear after level 17 (and they're also somewhat uncommon).  I think this is kind of silly since the other former foos can appear all the way down to level 100 (by virtue of monster groups).  Maybe an arch-vile + commando group is in order?

For detailed information about how monsters get generated, you can look on the wiki (here (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Monster_Generation) and here (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Level_type)).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Missileboater on August 05, 2011, 13:32
Ah, I missed the "Monster Groups' section there. I do agree that it's odd how even the normal former humans with pistols can appear up until the very end, while the dangerous commandos with plasma rifles stop appearing while not even 1/5 done with the run.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Dreadlord on August 05, 2011, 14:04
How can I unlock Angel of 100?
Wiki says it becomes available after I get Sergeant Major.
The game says that in order to get Sergeant Major I must have 3 silver badges total, but I already have 6, and the prerequisite still looks blanked out as if I never fulfilled it.

WTF?

And another thing. Last time I was playing on "Hey, Not Too Rough" (and it is like a walk in the park after "Hurt Me Plenty") and nuked the Cyberdemon. After a very tough battle against the final boss and his unlimited supply of demons I accidentally sniped him off vision with my High Power Railgun, ending the game, but further mortems don't say a word about it, merely stating about "rumours that Cyberdemon has been killed". What's wrong here?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on August 05, 2011, 14:22
Angel of 100 is indeed unlocked at Sergeant Major.

The requirement for Sergeant Major is to have both 12 or more bronze badges and 3 or more silver badges. You must have both the bronze badges and the silver badges. The requirements you have satisfied should be grayed out in the Show Player menu.

It is theoretically possible to have all the requirements fulfilled but still not to have advanced to the new rank. This can only occur when transferring a player.wad from a different game version. If this is the case, you should receive the new rank after playing any one game.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Dreadlord on August 05, 2011, 15:07
Oh, I apologise for my inattention, I indeed have less bronze badges than needed. For some reason I thought that grey prerequisite was the one that was NOT fulfilled. Silly me.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Palmiro Togliatti on August 06, 2011, 02:41
- do you dodge only while running? or to dodge it's just necessary stepping diagonally up and down?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: The Page on August 06, 2011, 03:42
- do you dodge only while running? or to dodge it's just necessary stepping diagonally up and down?

Running increases your dodge chance,  but you can dodge while not running. I believe.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on August 06, 2011, 08:08
- do you dodge only while running? or to dodge it's just necessary stepping diagonally up and down?
In addition to increasing your movespeed (which affects dodge chance directly), all enemies' accuracies are reduced, so in a way you have a better chance to dodge in THAT respect, but it's technically a better chance for enemies to miss with their projectiles if they were already targeting your tile.

Running is basically the best thing ever and, if it weren't for the loss of accuracy, halved melee damage, and low duration on your end, it'd probably be TOO good. *cough* For all this information and more regarding your tactics state, check out this page (http://wiki.chaosforge.net/wiki/Tactics) on the Wiki.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on August 08, 2011, 13:22
Okay, I need to correct a mistake I've been making lately. Movespeed and dodging chance, in their pure form, are NOT directly related to each other. Hellrunner happens to be applied using what it called "movetime", which affect both movespeed and dodging chance at the same time: all other movespeed or dodging bonuses only affect their statistic. I apologize for this inaccuracy on my part.

However, movespeed can affect dodging INdirectly in rare circumstances. If, for instance, a monster manages to attack you twice during a single one of your moves, the first attack will take a dodging 'roll' to see if the attack is aimed at your square, while the second attack will automatically target it (since you were in the same square in between its own moves).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Hissatsu on August 25, 2011, 23:23
Quick questions :)

1) How do i unequip cyber armor?
I saw Game Hunter do it in his videos, i mean i saw 0/100% cyber armor in his inventory, so he must have equipped it to damage it, right? Or did he intentionally feed it to multiple armor picking up enemies to wear it down?

2) In which way and how are assemblies moddable?
In Game Hunter videos i saw him mod Tactical Armor with a P and Hyperblaster with a P. I was NEVER able to do it! Right now i have a save with whizkid 2 and hyperblaster and "it cannot be modded with P anymore"! What are the rules for modding assemblies?

3) When exactly does Dodge work?
Does Dodge take place if i moved right before monster action, or if i moved between his last action and his current action? Meaning, if monster acts, then i move, shoot, then its monster time to act, will Dodge take place, because since monster last action, i moved, or will it not, since my last action before his action was not movement?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Ander Hammer on August 26, 2011, 00:07
1) Something in a level full of grabby monsters probably picked it up, then migrated to the center, where lots of things were whittled down while picking it up off of fresh corpses. Either that or he did just what you said. Cybernetic Armor cannot be un-equipped.

2) If you have Whizkid (2) before modding things into assemblies, I believe they can be modded an extra time afterwards.

3) I'm pretty sure if you have moved since the monster's last turn, and it attacks you for its next turn, it retains its chance to target the square you were in before.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Hissatsu on August 26, 2011, 01:32
1) I see now, cyber armor is actually a useful bait like a medpack but useless for the monster since it gives him 0 armor... Maybe thats why in every video i see it its 0/100, since alot of hellspawn did wear it already :)

2) So, i have to wait for whizkid (2) before creating an aseembly, is that correct?

3) In other words, if i moved, and monster didnt move/shoot, i can shoot him as much as i want and my dodgemaster will still work when its his time to act?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on August 26, 2011, 05:38
2) Yes (to be able to mod it)

3) You can only dodge if your last action was a move. If you dodge an enemy, it will target the square you were in on your last turn regardless of how fast or slow the enemy is.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Hissatsu on August 26, 2011, 13:28
3) So if there is a slow enemy, that acts once per 2 actions, and i move then shoot, will i be able now to dodge his shot or i had to shoot then move in order to have a chance to dodge?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on August 28, 2011, 06:25
You will not dodge the enemy unless moving is the last thing YOU did. So, you must fire then move.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Hissatsu on August 29, 2011, 12:59
So against slow enemies with dodgemaster i must always lure their movement or fire before i start shooting them, and then carefully calculate my timing to know when to move again?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on August 29, 2011, 14:18
So against slow enemies with dodgemaster i must always lure their movement or fire before i start shooting them, and then carefully calculate my timing to know when to move again?
I suppose if you want to be as precise as possible then yes, you'll want to time every one of your actions to every one of theirs. The problem "I" have doing that is twofold: first, I can only know exactly when the enemy will move if I know exactly when they move relative to the game's turn count, and I'm not about to start keeping track of every game turn and every enemy's speed for just that purpose; second, all actions are not only timed to the turn count (whose base unit is 0.1s) but also to an energy count (whose unit is 0.001s) which complicates things further when your actions take odd amounts of time. I don't think players attempt to time their actions exactly with the enemy's except in very specific circumstances (like in 1v1 boss battles), and even then you can be fairly confident with estimates. It's not like enemies attack 100% of the time they can, either: there's only a set chance of them trying to hit you, and it's often lower than 50% (except on N!). In the end you can waste a lot of time for only a few successful results.

In general, Dodgemaster is best used in builds that let you move around a lot: if you can combine that with a really fast firing time (so the chance of enemy reprisal is low) then all the better. It doesn't help against enemies that use homing attacks (Revenants, Arch-viles) nor against enemies with multiple projectiles in a single attack (Arachnotrons, Commandos) so it is of fairly limited use near the end-game. Cyberdemon, however, with his rocket launcher and reload time you can count on, is the perfect place for it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on September 01, 2011, 20:15
what are the sIDs for the new ammoboxes?  I want them to match my weapon/ammo colours, but the only list of sIDs I found was in the old wiki.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 01, 2011, 20:19
10mm ammo chain: pammo
shell box: pshell
rocket box: procket
power battery: pcell

I'll try to have an updated list out pretty soon. Or you can just ask here :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on September 01, 2011, 22:59
thanks!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: BDR on September 02, 2011, 00:10
How do I go full screen in Windows 7? Latest topic on the subject was 2009 and Kornel said he'd have functionality for it back by 0.9.9.1, but I downloaded 0.9.9.4 and I can't do full screen with Alt-Enter and there's no info on how else I might do it. :/ It really sucks because windowed mode is tiny and I really liked fullscreen mode when I played more regularly.

p.s: increasing font size at least helps but it's really not the same
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on September 02, 2011, 01:12
there are some more recent mentions of it, if you search all forums you can find some.
basically:
1) under win7/vista it's either impossible or barely possible to fullscreen a console application
2) a future doomrl, currently probably 1.0, will use a fake SDL console mode that you can fullscreen
3) until then, you can use NotEye or cons2tcod from http://www.roguetemple.com/z/

personally, I find playing in a large window (Consolas, size 36) preferable to the added layer - but everybody should try first-person mode of NotEye at least once!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Narsil on September 02, 2011, 07:25
Why I can't use Scavenger trait? Description says "just unload it when it's fully unloaded, and you can scrap it into a useful mod pack", but all I get is "This weapon isn't loaded", no matter if I have this weapon in my inventory or not. What the frak?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: lmaoboat on September 02, 2011, 07:45
I noticed my tactical shotgun doesn't work with the Shottyman trait. Was it always like this?
Edit:
Seems to bee all shotguns actually. I didn't get any blocked perks.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 02, 2011, 08:50
Narsil:

All I can say is: double check that you have the Scavenger trait, and make sure the weapon you're trying to use it on is either exotic, unique, assembled, or modded. (Exotic weapons are bright pink in color. Unique weapons are bright green in color. Both of them show up in the special page of the player profile.

If this does not resolve the issue, please put a more detailed post about the problem in the bug reporting forum.

lmaoboat:

Double check that you have the shottyman trait. Then make sure you have ammo in your inventory. Note that shell boxes don't work with shottyman whether sitting in the inventory or in the prepared slot. You can still use the shells inside the box with shottyman if you unload the box, but this will destroy the box. Destroying the box may be undesirable as it provides a substantial benefit while in the equipped slot.

If this does not resolve the issue, please put a more detailed post about the problem in the bug reporting forum.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: lmaoboat on September 02, 2011, 08:59
Oh, that must have been it. I guess I only had the box left as ammo.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Narsil on September 02, 2011, 11:35
"All I can say is: double check that you have the Scavenger trait, and make sure the weapon you're trying to use it on is either exotic, unique, assembled, or modded."

Whoops... I've missed that part and tried to disassamble common weapon. My mistake.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: alver on September 02, 2011, 16:54
Does chainsword count as knife for purposes of Malicious Knives trait, as well as for Strongman Silver badge?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 02, 2011, 17:33
Does chainsword count as knife for purposes of Malicious Knives trait, as well as for Strongman Silver badge?

Yes and yes.

And the trait is named "Malicious Blades" ;)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on September 02, 2011, 20:11
does Cateye increase the range of new Intuition 2?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 02, 2011, 20:16
does Cateye increase the range of new Intuition 2?

Yes. Intuition 2 is directly based on the player's vision radius, so it is affected by both Cateye (positively) and AoD (negatively).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on September 02, 2011, 20:50
thanks.  oh, one more: do you need to have everything dead at the same time to open the lab cache in the Armory, or just the boss?  (if everything, well, N! players are crazy anyway)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thomas on September 02, 2011, 21:36
thanks.  oh, one more: do you need to have everything dead at the same time to open the lab cache in the Armory, or just the boss?  (if everything, well, N! players are crazy anyway)

Everything.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: lmaoboat on September 04, 2011, 13:01
The wiki says exotics can be used to make my assemblies, but I tried making my assault shotgun into a tactical shotgun, and it didn't work.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Midnight on September 04, 2011, 13:28
You cannot make a tactical shotgun out of an assault shottie, because this assemblie requires a particular weapon (combat shotgun). You can, for example, make a high-powered railgun, because this assemblie takes any non-shotgun weapon.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: lmaoboat on September 04, 2011, 13:57
Man this game is hard. I get dominated in hell on the easiest difficulty even with Fireangel.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: gilgatex on September 04, 2011, 15:35
In Angel of Impatience, is losing a mod completely if you try to use it on a weapon that can't be modded anymore an intended behavior?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 04, 2011, 16:56
In Angel of Impatience, is losing a mod completely if you try to use it on a weapon that can't be modded anymore an intended behavior?

I'm not sure of Kornel's stance on this, and I'd be interested to here from him (or if someone has seen him address it before). If not, it should be fixable.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: gilgatex on September 04, 2011, 18:55
Couple quick questions:

1) Can you hack through a wall with a shotgun/pistol/melee weapon if given enough time?
2) Can you use shotgun/pistol/melee weapon to hack through the doors in Halls of Carnage?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 04, 2011, 19:08
1) Can you hack through a wall with a shotgun/pistol/melee weapon if given enough time?
No. Being able to damage walls at all is based on damage type: melee, bullet, shrapnel, and piercing damage will have no effect.  And though other weapons have the possibility of damaging walls, most walls reduce all damage by 10 (possibly to 0), so weapons like the plasma rifle may still be unable to damage the wall despite having an effective damage type.

2) Can you use shotgun/pistol/melee weapon to hack through the doors in Halls of Carnage?
Yes. Any damage type is effective against locked doors. However, locked doors reduce all damage by 6 which means a pistol might take a while, and a chaingun must be backed up by some kind of damage enhancement.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: gilgatex on September 04, 2011, 20:34
No. Being able to damage walls at all is based on damage type: melee, bullet, shrapnel, and piercing damage will have no effect.  And though other weapons have the possibility of damaging walls, most walls reduce all damage by 10 (possibly to 0), so weapons like the plasma rifle may still be unable to damage the wall despite having an effective damage type.

So the achievement to "Clear out The Wall on AoMr or AoB" would require either phase items or some kind of nuke/invulnerability combo then?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thexare on September 04, 2011, 20:46
An early Hellwave Pack could do it on both, I think. In theory; I'm not sure it can spawn in time. Or, for AoMr, the Anti-Freak Jackal or a High Power Blaster could poke through.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on September 04, 2011, 20:49
An early Hellwave Pack could do it on both, I think. In theory; I'm not sure it can spawn in time. Or, for AoMr, the Anti-Freak Jackal or a High Power Blaster could poke through.
I've actually tried using a Hellwave Pack on The Wall: it broke through every layer but one, which really sucked. (Could have been a bad roll, who knows.) Brick Silver doesn't seem to like me at all, though.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ParaSait on September 04, 2011, 21:27
Why are there lost souls on dlvl26 in Kristopher's mortem? JC nerf on lower difficulties or something?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 04, 2011, 23:09
Why are there lost souls on dlvl26 in Kristopher's mortem? JC nerf on lower difficulties or something?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: gilgatex on September 06, 2011, 07:11
I notice some people post their stats in their signature prefaced by a version number (as I'm attempting to copy now).  Does that mean the players get wiped with each version?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: gilgatex on September 06, 2011, 07:17
Also, has anyone figured out a way to get this to work in full-screen on Windows 7?  I tried DOSBox but it said the game can't be run in DOS mode.  (For those of you that don't have Windows 7, they disabled full screen for the console for whatever stupid reason)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Midnight on September 06, 2011, 07:21
Nope, you can carry your player.wad (the file that contains all your stats) over into the next versions.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Elephant on September 06, 2011, 11:44
You could probably use Necklace of the Eye. It's a roguelike frontend with cool stuff.
http://www.roguetemple.com/z/noteye.php (http://www.roguetemple.com/z/noteye.php)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ParaSait on September 06, 2011, 18:18
Can you win AoRA by waiting for the automatically dropped nuke to blow up, or does it have to be your own?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on September 06, 2011, 18:19
Can you win AoRA by waiting for the automatically dropped nuke to blow up, or does it have to be your own?
If you reach Phobos Arena, you've already won. That's the one major upside to AoRA: you don't have to prepare for the final fight at all if you don't care about score.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thomas on September 06, 2011, 19:47
Not only does player death make all armed nukes instantly explode (thus causing a partial victory if you're on floor 25) but attempting to arm 'your own' nuke while the 5 minute nuke is still counting down will result in a message along the lines of 'Are you crazy!?' and you wont be allowed to do it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: death2001 on September 06, 2011, 21:15
Playing doom >....> and i was wondering... if i get a perk, thats blocked by another perk later. is that perk blocked if i get the other perk.. i.e.
Son of a Bitch is blocked in Sharpshooter.
so if i get Son of a Bitch now, will sharpshooter still be open later?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on September 06, 2011, 21:30
if i get Son of a Bitch now, will sharpshooter still be open later?
No; if a master trait blocks traits, those traits cannot be taken at ANY point in the run, neither before learning the master nor after it.

If a moderator could merge this with the QQ thread (located here (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,3999.0.html)), that would be excellent. Also, welcome to the forums!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on September 06, 2011, 22:08
Done.

/me slinks off into the darkness once more
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: death2001 on September 06, 2011, 23:06
No; if a master trait blocks traits, those traits cannot be taken at ANY point in the run, neither before learning the master nor after it.

If a moderator could merge this with the QQ thread (located here (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,3999.0.html)), that would be excellent. Also, welcome to the forums!

Thats what i figured. Thanks :D
Im trying to do AoM on hmp and i was working on a build.
Btw whats a good way to go against the cathedral? xD Bob XIII got murdered cause he didnt bring a any melee weapons, but i wondered if that would have changed anything vs the angel of death, since i didnt have any melee perks.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thomas on September 07, 2011, 00:23
Generally the best strategy is to avoid it and just take the regular stairs down on Phobos Hell level 1, unless you're playing Angel of Berserk. If you want to clear it, you'll need brute 2, berserker and a chainsaw.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: death2001 on September 07, 2011, 03:07
Generally the best strategy is to avoid it and just take the regular stairs down on Phobos Hell level 1, unless you're playing Angel of Berserk. If you want to clear it, you'll need brute 2, berserker and a chainsaw.

would it be possible to take him out using hell wave or the such? or atleast damaging him enough that you could battle him?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on September 07, 2011, 03:13
would it be possible to take him out using hell wave or the such? or atleast damaging him enough that you could battle him?

If you've got time, you could do Game Hunter's strategy of running round the outside of the Cathedral, throwing combat knives at him, then picking them up again, and repeating.
However, it'll take a lot longer if you aren't on Angel of Max Carnage, and it's not a very efficient strategy and is only really an option if you want Longinus Diamond (which involves clearing Unholy Cathedral on UV or N! without Brute, and therefore Berserker).
There's also the Hatred Skull, but you'll still need a chainsaw, several large medpacks and red armours to have a chance at killing him before berserk runs out.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on September 07, 2011, 03:50
would it be possible to take him out using hell wave or the such? or atleast damaging him enough that you could battle him?

It'll take off around 1/3 of his HP on HNTR or HMP difficulties, if it works at all - I'm not sure if he can take damage from fire, as he is immune to lava.
If you're just looking for experience and are invulnerable, you can nuke the level - but you won't get the reward.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on September 07, 2011, 14:58
can you mod master assemblies the same as others?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 07, 2011, 15:09
can you mod master assemblies the same as others?

Yes.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: gilgatex on September 08, 2011, 18:16
I just beat the game in 19 minutes and 3 seconds.  I got the Compet-n Gold Cross (for beating it in under 20 minutes) but I did not get the Compet-n Silver cross (for beating it in under 30 minutes).  Is this intended behavior?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: UnderAPaleGreySky on September 08, 2011, 18:24
I just beat the game in 19 minutes and 3 seconds.  I got the Compet-n Gold Cross (for beating it in under 20 minutes) but I did not get the Compet-n Silver cross (for beating it in under 30 minutes).  Is this intended behavior?
Pretty sure it's intended, along with the UAC Star and Icarus Cross sets.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on September 09, 2011, 04:07
Is acid hitting a nuke a Bad Thing? (a wave of acid is coming, the nuke has not been deployed - it's just on the ground.  I'm just going to leave the level, but it'd be nice to know)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 09, 2011, 04:11
Is acid hitting a nuke a Bad Thing? (a wave of acid is coming, the nuke has not been deployed - it's just on the ground.  I'm just going to leave the level, but it'd be nice to know)

Acid swallowing up a nuke once it's deployed doesn't have any unusual effect. However, deploying a nuke in an existing pool of acid is a dangerous proposition.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Chronos on September 10, 2011, 02:11
I noted that AoMr is rated "EASY", while AoSh is rated "Medium". It seems to me that AoSh is pretty easier than AoMr.
I'm missing something?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on September 10, 2011, 02:47
I noted that AoMr is rated "EASY", while AoSh is rated "Medium". It seems to me that AoSh is pretty easier than AoMr.
I'm missing something?

Well, they're somewhat subjective.  I find the early game MUCH easier in Shotgunnery, but the late game much easier in Marksmanship - for example, I haven't been able to beat UV AoSg, but I think I won HNTR AoSg before AoMr.  I think AoB has generally been the easiest since I started playing (arguable even with the berserk bug in 0.991, definitely in 0.992/0.993) but has gotten harder in this one.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Chronos on September 10, 2011, 03:06
for example, I haven't been able to beat UV AoSg, but I think I won HNTR AoSg before AoMr.

I recently won HNTR AoSG, and I hardly reached lev 14 of HNTR AoMr.
I'm not ready for any AoB... ^_^'
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: gilgatex on September 10, 2011, 03:41
Definitely subjective.  It took me about 2 hours to beat AoB (which is "Very Hard"), but it took me several days to beat AoMr.  I still haven't beaten AoSh... it gets quite difficult near the end.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on September 11, 2011, 01:36
does plasma damage reduce plasma resistance the way it reduces protection?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 11, 2011, 02:19
does plasma damage reduce plasma resistance the way it reduces protection?

No. 50% (for example) resistance means the same thing for every damage type. Although plasma resistance is harder to come by to begin with...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Dreadlord on September 11, 2011, 12:57
I was away for a while and to my surprise I saw there's a new version out. This is my first game here, playing as a Technician (after Warhammer 40k I nearly said techmarine).

In the beginning of level 10 I saw something really weird. Is that crowd of pinky demons supposed to spawn in the very beginning of a level? As you can see, the level has no special messages or feelings apart from "morbid air".

I apologise in advance, in case the question has already been asked before.


Game loaded. Welcome to the Doom Roguelike... You enter Phobos Base,           
 level 10. You feel a breeze of morbid air...                                   
                                                                               
     ^^                                                                         
                                                                               
              ^                               **                               
                                            ..cc###.###.#    ^                 
                                            .ccccc.;.@..#                       
          ^                                  ###........+                       
                                               #........#                       
                                               #........==                     
                                              ...###....==.                     
                                              ..   #...=#=#                     
                                                   #.==.#.#                     
                                                   ..===#                       
                                                   ##.=.#                       
                                                    #..                         
                                             ^                                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
                                                                               
                                                                               
 Lasombra                   Armor : red armor [4/4] (100%)                     
 Health: 100% Exp:  6/37%   Weapon: chaingun (1d6)x4 [40/40]                   
 cautious                                                    Phobos Base  Lev10

Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Gargulec on September 11, 2011, 13:13
Demons do that, they spawn in crowds. Nothing unusual here.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Dreadlord on September 11, 2011, 13:16
I've never seen such a thing in 0.9.9.3, so it was a bit odd. Anyway, thanks for the information!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on September 11, 2011, 15:49
That just begs for a chainsaw with berserk...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thexare on September 11, 2011, 15:58
Or some form of shotgun. I'm partial toward the Tactical model, myself.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Ander Hammer on September 11, 2011, 16:58
Is it possible to set a color for something to 'random', ala the durability overflow bug fixed recently?

I'm a silly person who would be inordinately amused by rainbow-cycling uniques and intuition marks.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on September 11, 2011, 18:05
Is it possible to set a color for something to 'random', ala the durability overflow bug fixed recently?
There are some hardcoded "colors" that cycle through a few (such as the portal at the Phobos Hellgate) but there isn't a pre-defined random color. I suppose it's possible from a modder's perspective but I really doubt it's something you can change up in the config files right now. (Also, the multicolors currently only work on cells or missiles, depending on the color.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Traveller on September 11, 2011, 19:58
So Cybernetic Armor can't be modded, right?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 11, 2011, 22:25
So Cybernetic Armor can't be modded, right?

Modding of uniques was changed in version 0.9.9.5. Currently, there are a few selected uniques that can be modified including the Cybernetic Armor, but only the Technician class can mod uniques. Other classes can never mod any unique regardless of Whizkid or any other factors.

(The uniques that can be modified are the same ones that could be modded in 0.9.9.4; it's just only Technicians that can do it now.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: gilgatex on September 12, 2011, 07:46
I know you can change colors in colors.lua, but is there a list of entity IDs somewhere?  Specifically I want to change the color of the double shotgun to yellow so it doesn't look like a pistol.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on September 12, 2011, 10:00
I know you can change colors in colors.lua, but is there a list of entity IDs somewhere?  Specifically I want to change the color of the double shotgun to yellow so it doesn't look like a pistol.

Try this link. (http://old-wiki.chaosforge.org/wiki/index.php?title=Modding:sID) The double shotgun is 'dshotgun'. (Note that this list is from pre-0.9.9.4 so it won't include the newest objects from the current version.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: gilgatex on September 12, 2011, 10:07
Try this link. (http://old-wiki.chaosforge.org/wiki/index.php?title=Modding:sID) The double shotgun is 'dshotgun'. (Note that this list is from pre-0.9.9.4 so it won't include the newest objects from the current version.)

Thanks!

Next quick question: Does firing a single shot from the double shotgun use a regular shotgun blast or a wide one?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 12, 2011, 13:17
Does firing a single shot from the double shotgun use a regular shotgun blast or a wide one?

Single shot from a double shotgun still uses a wide blast. For any shotgun with the single shot altfire, the blast is the same as the blast used for the normal fire.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Ander Hammer on September 13, 2011, 07:55
What are the entity IDs for ammocans? Specifically the ammochain and the battery, though all of them for the sake of completeness would be nice. (I'm making all ammo more 'Doom-colored' and the shellbox and rocket case are both fine.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 13, 2011, 11:06
What are the entity IDs for ammocans?

10mm ammo chain: pammo
shell box: pshell
rocket box: procket
power battery: pcell
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: gilgatex on September 13, 2011, 12:18
And what is the ID for regular stairs?  I've tried stairs, ystairs, and rstairs and nothing seems to work.

Code: [Select]
Colors = {
dshotgun = YELLOW,
stairs = LIGHTGREEN,
ystairs = LIGHTGREEN,
rstairs = LIGHTRED
}

EDIT: NEVERMIND!  It's stairs_light and stairs_dark
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 14, 2011, 18:42
I've updated the item and cell id lists and added them to the new wiki here (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Modding:sID).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on September 14, 2011, 21:24
I've updated the item and cell id lists and added them to the new wiki here (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Modding:sID).

you are a good person and a credit to chaosforge.  Thanks!

when you get a chance, could you update Item Generation (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Item_Generation)?  also, the tech mod is missing from it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Ander Hammer on September 14, 2011, 21:52
Thanks, guys.

Another coloring question.

Are all the separate levers colorable, and will these colors only show up if you have Intuition? I'd like to know if something is good or bad without having to (L)ook and maneuver over to it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 15, 2011, 00:02
Thanks, guys.

Another coloring question.

Are all the separate levers colorable, and will these colors only show up if you have Intuition? I'd like to know if something is good or bad without having to (L)ook and maneuver over to it.

To color levers, you have to use "lever" instead of the particular lever's id.  (The Hell's Armory lever is excepted from this rule.) This is specifically designed to prevent using custom colors to distinguish them. Having special colors that only work with intuition is a cool idea, but it doesn't easily fit into the existing color framework.

Also, some cells can't be colored individually. I think mainly these are "p" and "2" versions; such cells automatically share the color of the base cell.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: MeanMrMustard on September 16, 2011, 13:25
If armor is at 0% but not destroyed, does it still give you the armor's resistances?  For example walking around with 0% lava armor.

Does armor resistance ever get damaged along with the armor's durability?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 16, 2011, 14:36
If armor is at 0% but not destroyed, does it still give you the armor's resistances?  For example walking around with 0% lava armor.

Does armor resistance ever get damaged along with the armor's durability?

Armor at 0% still provides full resistances. Resistances do not diminish when armor is damaged. You can always check your current resistances in the [e]quipment screen.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on September 28, 2011, 09:03
What will happen if try to mod weapon that regenerates ammo by N mod?Will it regenerate two per action?Same questions for second N pack for normal weapon.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Stormlock on September 28, 2011, 13:56
How secret are the Dragon Slayer and Berserk armor supposed to be? I get that nobody is sharing how to equip them, but what about what they actually do?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on September 28, 2011, 14:25
Dragonslayer's effects are definitely not secret, as they've been posted on the forum a few times.  Not sure on Berserker Armor (and I don't know myself what it does), I don't think anybody not in the innermost circle has equipped it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on September 28, 2011, 16:34
What will happen if try to mod weapon that regenerates ammo by N mod?Will it regenerate two per action?Same questions for second N pack for normal weapon.

If a weapon already regenerates ammo whether by a Nano Pack or naturally, adding a(nother) Nano Pack will have no effect. Although you could possible be justified in this if you were going for an assembly that required the N.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tazdude71 on October 06, 2011, 12:13
Curious, when enemies get resurrected (Such as in the Chained Court) do you get experience for killing them again?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Zecks on October 06, 2011, 12:58
Resurrected enemies don't give exp, and IIRC neither do corpses that are already there when you arrive (ie. in the mortuary)
They do get new weapons though, so you can farm ammo.

Btw, enemies spawned from levers still don't give exp. Is this final or has it not been reimplemented yet?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on October 06, 2011, 17:07
Btw, enemies spawned from levers still don't give exp. Is this final or has it not been reimplemented yet?

I'm pretty sure this change was intentional and there are no current plans to change it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rekenne on October 08, 2011, 23:50
I  remember, way, way back when, the first time I beat the game was by abusing that on like level 2. I got to like level 5 or so on Formers and Imps.
...
This was back in like version .9.5 or so, tho. It was ... about 2005 or 2006.

Anyway. Actual question! What weapons *can* be modded by a technician? The wiki says all uniques... but I can't mod a Grammaton Cleric Beretta. What gives?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on October 09, 2011, 12:45
For a technician, Railgun and BFG 10K accept a single mod (regardless of Whizkid) and Cybernetic Armor is fully moddable. Other uniques can't be modded even by a technician.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Missileboater on October 09, 2011, 18:21
I'm not sure if this is already stated somewhere, but how much damage do you have to take for the "That hurt!" part of the Berserker trait to activate?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on October 09, 2011, 19:15
I'm not sure if this is already stated somewhere, but how much damage do you have to take for the "That hurt!" part of the Berserker trait to activate?

Basically, you need to get a "red flash", which is at least one-third of your total HP. In addition, if the red flash DOES occur, it still must be at least 10 HP to trigger (to prevent AoHu exploitation).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on October 10, 2011, 01:11
To add to Game Hunter's correct answer, the "red flash"/"that hurt" trigger is checked before any resistances or protection is applied, so it is just as easy to trigger when you're already berserked or whatnot.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Missileboater on October 10, 2011, 06:43
Ah, that makes sense. I was wondering why it kept constantly activating during the Cyberdemon fight even though I wasn't taking much damage. Thanks for the answers.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: gilgatex on October 15, 2011, 07:02
This may be a little subjective, but what is the easiest diamond badge to get?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on October 15, 2011, 15:29
This may be a little subjective, but what is the easiest diamond badge to get?
I haven't even got a platinum badge yet, let alone a bloody diamond, but it's considered to be Gatekeeper.
On AoMC, you can blow through the walls with (I think) a high-power plasma rifle.
A lucky invulnerability could get you it too - but the above is just what I've learned from mortems etc.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Angles of death on October 15, 2011, 23:56
Does the Firestorm mod pack make a double shotty fire four hits or five?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on October 16, 2011, 00:05
Firestorm mods will increase the apparent multiplier of a double shotgun by 2, but they won't actually give any benefit.  The same goes for super shotguns.  This is the same issue as double shotguns firing two shots; weapons can't fire more shots than their magazine can hold.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Angle of Death on October 23, 2011, 14:05
Is the assault rifle a better weapon than the Gatling Gun with a Sniper mod?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on October 23, 2011, 16:16
Is the assault rifle a better weapon than the Gatling Gun with a Sniper mod?
I imagine that this is a matter of opinion. While S-modded gatling gun is pretty GG in its own regard, it still uses six bullets per attack, while the assault rifle uses only two (and deals more damage per shot). Depending on your ammo needs, one may be better than the other: as a matter of pure damage-per-second, however, the gatling gun will be superior (given all traits equal).

This thread isn't really for this kind of question, although if you want to make a separate thread for strategy questions instead, that's a good idea.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on October 24, 2011, 06:04
Hm, by the way guys.

How do you take the Shambler down on AoSg?
Because honestly, the luckiest I've ever been was about "heavely wounded" before he took off. (And next time I caught him he was "Lightly wounded", repeat ad you're screwed.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on October 24, 2011, 06:32
Hm, by the way guys.

How do you take the Shambler down on AoSg?
Because honestly, the luckiest I've ever been was about "heavely wounded" before he took off. (And next time I caught him he was "Lightly wounded", repeat ad you're screwed.)
The best you can do is a lucky plasma shotgun in the armoury which'll tear through his armour and kill him before he teleports away or an even luckier Jackhammer.
To maximise damage, stand in one of the huts that hide Arachnotrons with the door shut and wait. He'll eventually teleport in and you need a maximum of one step to get into prime shotgun territory - with no knockback at all and a little luck, he'll go down before he teleports.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Missileboater on October 24, 2011, 13:43
Also try to equip a shell box ( or power box for plasma shotgun ) for quick reloads to minimize the chance that it'll teleport away. Assemblies ( if you can find the mods ) of either plasmatic shrapnel or nano-shrapnel can also help maximize damage/need of reloading.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on October 24, 2011, 15:02
If I nano-mod a shotgun, will it regenerate ammo as I fire it (leading to never running out of ammo)?
Same goes for things like nuclear plasma rifle with Ammochain.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Missileboater on October 24, 2011, 18:34
Basically, I know when I made a plasmatic shrapnel ( the tier 1 version ) normal shotgun, the shell regenerated right when I fired it, so I basically had an infinite ammo shotgun. However, I'm not sure how this will affect combat shotguns though, since there's a warning for ones that require pumps.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on October 24, 2011, 19:48
with the combat shotgun (N), I'm pretty sure you'll need to pump it (you'll still have infinite ammo, but the fire time will truly be firetime + pumptime or firetime+movetime).
I have nano-modded a double or super shotgun, and there is a problem - you'll only get 1 shell in per action when you're trying to fire 2.  however, since the second blast is often not that good anyway it should be ok.  You can also alternate dodge and fire to get both shells.

I don't think the Shambler is worth fighting in AoSg unless you have plasma/Jackhammer, one of the nano assemblies, or MAD/MSh traits.  You will have a shell box from the Armory, use it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Missileboater on October 24, 2011, 22:17
In the wiki for the assemblies, it says "Beware: ammo regeneration prevents manual reloading including pumping which may be undesirable for some shotguns. ", that's the part where I'm confused at for combat shotguns. If you really have to move in order to fire Nano'd combat shotgun, it'll give the Shambler much more time to just teleport around ( since you won't be given the benefit of shell boxes either if this is true ).

Just a little confusion in my part, nothing big.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on October 25, 2011, 05:09
Say guys, what should I do with this little Cybernetic armor I have?
Wait for power mods to make it Nanofiber/ Skin(!?!), or just bulk mod it? (Currently B1T2 in the inventory.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Missileboater on October 25, 2011, 11:40
Say guys, what should I do with this little Cybernetic armor I have?
Wait for power mods to make it Nanofiber/ Skin(!?!), or just bulk mod it? (Currently B1T2 in the inventory.)

If you can make the Cybernetic Armor indestructible, by all means do it. You can't remove it, so you should might as well make sure the armor doesn't become a complete hindrance that doesn't give any benefits.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on October 25, 2011, 19:09
can you destroy corpses with the Longinus Spear's alt-fire?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on October 26, 2011, 11:48
Yes, though it's a bit costly due to the stamina drain.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Zarin on October 26, 2011, 22:04
It seems that Shielded Armor is indestructible. Can anyone add that to Wiki?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on October 27, 2011, 03:54
Ah, yes. I forgot all about that.
Updated.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on October 27, 2011, 07:57
It seems that Shielded Armor is indestructible. Can anyone add that to Wiki?
As a matter of fact, you could add it yourself! That's why it's a Wiki and not just a webpage with information on it. Use this page (http://doom.chaosforge.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=DoomRL_Wiki) to log in with your forum name/pass, at which point you can get started fixing anything that's inaccurate or missing.

Overall, questions pertaining to the Wiki should be directed to this thread (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,325.0.html).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Be26 on October 27, 2011, 10:49
I didn't think this merited a new thread but, basically, I'm colourblind and I need some help. To whit I had no idea bridges existed until just now, and I found that out completely by accident - I walked onto one accidentally, thinking it was acid, then realised my health wasn't decreasing. The 'bridge' floor tile and the 'acid' floor tile look identical to me. Is there a fix for this?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on October 27, 2011, 11:31
I didn't think this merited a new thread but, basically, I'm colourblind and I need some help. To whit I had no idea bridges existed until just now, and I found that out completely by accident - I walked onto one accidentally, thinking it was acid, then realised my health wasn't decreasing. The 'bridge' floor tile and the 'acid' floor tile look identical to me. Is there a fix for this?
I know that there's a colorblind mode you can activate in the config.lua file, which may help with this sort of thing.

Assuming you have colorblind mode turned on and there are still no good indicators, you could mess around in the color.lua file (ironically enough) and set key features (like bridges) to black, which will visually erase them from the screen. In this way you should be able to distinguish between tiles with the same ASCII character. (To set colors in color.lua you'll need to know an object's string identifier, all of which can be found here (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Modding:sID). The bridge sID is simply "bridge".) If you need help figuring out how to work with color.lua, feel free to ask here again.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Matt_S on November 01, 2011, 11:06
The answer is probably "no", but I'll go ahead and ask.  If you have Whizkid 2, can you make a basic assembly using an assembled item?  The wiki doesn't explicitly say that you can't, but since it does mention that you can make basic assemblies for the uniques that can be modded, I would guess that it can't be done.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on November 01, 2011, 11:14
you cannot.  at one point you could, but that was considered a bug (nanofiber nanofiber nanofiber red armor wasn't very good anyway).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on November 01, 2011, 11:36
Here's something more funny about that bug [from a really long time ago]:(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_tO9FaMdnVvo/TVOJ5lHkXAI/AAAAAAAAAb8/ADijfLuuAB8/s1600/doomrl-screenshot.png)
(This one was from a beta of 0.9.9.2)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ParaSait on November 01, 2011, 16:21
"Vegeta, what does the minigun say about its power level?"
"... it's over ninethousaaaaaaaaand!"
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: GrimmC on November 14, 2011, 12:32
Do certain enemies have a higher chance of dodging than others? It sure seems like Bruiser Brothers and Arena Masters dodge my rockets more than 39% of the time. (Which is what it should be if they're on the edge of my vision range, given no EE and no mods on the launcher.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on November 14, 2011, 13:21
Inherent dodging of projectiles can only be modified through a being's movetime property: this property is never modified for any beings on creation, and is only modified over the course of the game for the player whenever they select the Hellrunner trait. Other than that, whether or not you dodge a given projectile depends on the projectile itself. See this Wiki page (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Dodging) for more information (nothing is spoiled there unless you want to experimentally determine the dodging rates of projectiles yourself).

For simple questions such as these, it is recommended that you direct your post to the Quick Questions thread (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,3999.0.html).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on November 14, 2011, 13:57
Merged based on Game Hunter's suggestion.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tesmador on November 15, 2011, 06:06
How can I post my mortem text?
I don't know how to put my mortem text in the proper tags.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on November 15, 2011, 07:24
How can I post my mortem text?
I don't know how to put my mortem text in the proper tags.
Mortem text from the latest game can be found in mortem.txt, located in your base DoomRL folder. For older mortems, check the mortem folder for the date.

Figuring out how to use mortem tags can be found in the rules sticky (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,561.0.html) of the Post Mortem forum. If you're still having trouble, let me know.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on November 15, 2011, 07:27
"Insert Mortem" is currently missing from the full reply form.  We're looking into fixing this soon.

/me glances at Rimmon

Meanwhile, please insert the mortem tags manually.  The sample can be seen in the rules sticky that Game Hunter put up.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tesmador on November 15, 2011, 08:30
Tank's a lot. I think i got it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Matt_S on November 18, 2011, 10:10
Is the pump time of the combat shotgun affected by Reloader?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: raekuul on November 18, 2011, 10:53
Pump time is 0.2 seconds, and is not affected by Reloader so far as I have experienced.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Matt_S on November 19, 2011, 20:53
I guess I'll just ask this here:  Why isn't frontal start the default option?  It seems like it's the far more sensible option.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: raekuul on November 19, 2011, 21:16
Frontal Start Angel of Berserk on Ultra-Violence or Nightmare is near impossible.

Besides, most of us are just used to not changing the start location setting anyway.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thomas on November 19, 2011, 23:12
Frontal Start Angel of Berserk on Ultra-Violence or Nightmare is near impossible.

Besides, most of us are just used to not changing the start location setting anyway.

That used to be true, but now that the shotgunners don't start outside of the base you can just use running mode to get the 2 pistol guys then giftdrop everyone else. Of course, that's a bit best case scenario but UV/N! AoB is all about going for the best case scenario.

Frontal mode is more convenient in almost every case, so I also don't realise why it isn't default.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on November 20, 2011, 03:42
because everybody says it should be default I've made it mine, but I found non-frontal easier on many layouts in UV due to more corner-shot possibilities on the first outside enemy.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: raekuul on November 20, 2011, 12:11
That used to be true, but now that the shotgunners don't start outside of the base
25% of the starting scenarios still have shotgunners outside of the base. Don't know if that's still true for AoB though...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: GrimmC on November 27, 2011, 19:15
How exactly does armor durability work? The wiki says that durability lost is equal to the amount of damage it reduces. Thus in theory, from a single attack, blue armor should drop no more than 2%. However, Hell Knights, which according to the wiki deal plasma damage, can reduce blue armor by about 20% in one attack. Which by my calculations should be impossible.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on November 27, 2011, 19:33
How exactly does armor durability work?
The wording on the Wiki is misleading, I suppose. Basically, there needs to be a comma in the Wiki article: "The amount of durability lost is equal to the amount of damage, reduced by the protection value of the armor or boots." It's still pretty unclear wording, so I'll clear it up after replying here.

To be explicit, armor durability reduction is calculated as the difference between the amount of (unarmored) damage taken and the protection value of the armor. Thus, if you were to take ten damage and the armor protects by two, then the amount of durability lost is eight. Resistances do not affect the protection part of this calculation, but they will effectively reduce durability loss by reducing the amount of damage you take.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: GrimmC on November 27, 2011, 19:54
So essentially, durability takes the same amount of damage as your health does. (?)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Matt_S on November 29, 2011, 20:10
Out of simple curiosity, since the longinus spear does plasma damage, can you destroy walls by smacking them with it?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on November 29, 2011, 20:46
No, you can't.Tried it myself.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on November 29, 2011, 23:12
I should probably try and see if the special can.
Doubt it though.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on November 30, 2011, 05:31
In the Armoury, does the Shambler's teleporting action take time?
Just died on AoMR (eight large medpacks ugh) after the I was shooting the shambler in the first corridor of rooms, then he suddenly teleports behind me and electrocutes me in the same move.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on November 30, 2011, 07:25
Not sure.If my memory servers me right once i saw him teleporting out of nowhere, shooting me and teleporting somewhere else without delay, so i was  like: "Woot? O_O "
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on November 30, 2011, 14:14
In the Armoury, does the Shambler's teleporting action take time?
Just died on AoMR (eight large medpacks ugh) after the I was shooting the shambler in the first corridor of rooms, then he suddenly teleports behind me and electrocutes me in the same move.
I'm pretty sure the teleport takes zero time. It's technically not a queued action but, rather, has a chance to occur on every action it takes. So yeah, Shamblers can be REALLY unfair. (This, along with the obnoxious randomness of the teleport, have been fixed in the beta.)

I should probably try and see if the special [for the Longinus Spear] can [destroy walls].
Doubt it though.
Actually, it can. In fact, this used to be one of the theoretical ways to go about breaking into the Vaults during Angel of Berserk, basically requiring lots of med-packs instead of phase devices. It's probably not the BEST use for the Spear's alt-fire but it's certainly something to take advantage of.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on November 30, 2011, 23:13
The best use is toasting archies in the mortuary. :)
And as a bonus, the corpses get gibbed in a nice area.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on December 01, 2011, 03:41
Double post!

But anyway, since this is "quick questions", would it be a wise idea to equip a cybernetic armor on a Ammochain-Ao100 run?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on December 01, 2011, 07:01
I wouldn't, since Cybernetic Armor can't be modded by a Marine you can't make it indestructible.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on December 01, 2011, 09:01
Oh yeah, totally forgot about that.
Thinking about it, it'd be really cool if the (rather useless) restriction was changed to technicians having a +1 Assembly bonus instead.

With uniques starting out at 0 assembly points, thus a Whizkid scout/marine would have 1 assembly point for them.
And technicians would keep the starting point of 1.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: raekuul on December 01, 2011, 09:38
Why does Technician get Entrenchment and Marine get Ammochain? It seems to me that it should be the other way around.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Matt_S on December 14, 2011, 16:14
Why isn't the small building in the Chained Court + symmetric?  The bottom left corner doesn't have the same little notch.  It bugs me.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on December 14, 2011, 20:30
Why isn't the small building in the Chained Court + symmetric?  The bottom left corner doesn't have the same little notch.  It bugs me.

For the same reason the Chained Court + has a single blooded wall in the lower right corner.  Also the same reason that the Unholy Cathedral has a lonely blood spot in the upper right hand corner outside the moat. And for the same reason that in the demon room of the Cathedral there is a single tile of the otherwise-bloody walkway that isn't blooded.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on December 15, 2011, 07:11
Not to mention there's an open door surrounded by walls in the Cathedral :P (but that one has a purpose ^^)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on December 15, 2011, 10:27
Not to mention there's an open door surrounded by walls in the Cathedral :P (but that one has a purpose ^^)
Is it where the LS is? (so you can't phase onto it)
And it's destroyed when the AoD is killed?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: snowstorm on January 14, 2012, 05:12
Anybody asked this yet?
With dualgunner and primary gun with less ammo.
You can't shoot while the first gun has 0 ammo.
Why not allow shooting while primary at 0ammo as long as secondary still has?  (Swapping seems an unnecessary waste in this situation)

Secondly, combat pistol doesn't have dualreload as alt.reload. That on purpose? Doesn't look it would disrupt the balance that much.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on January 14, 2012, 12:31
Anybody asked this yet?
With dualgunner and primary gun with less ammo.
You can't shoot while the first gun has 0 ammo.
Why not allow shooting while primary at 0ammo as long as secondary still has?  (Swapping seems an unnecessary waste in this situation)

Secondly, combat pistol doesn't have dualreload as alt.reload. That on purpose? Doesn't look it would disrupt the balance that much.

First: In the next version, dualgunner will allow free 'z' swapping between two pistols, so this won't be a waste anymore.

Second: This is a bug; it will be fixed in the next version.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on January 16, 2012, 11:30
Say, how do the monsters work.

Do they attack after your move?
If so, then that's pretty cheap, IMHO.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Kashi on January 16, 2012, 11:36
Say, how do the monsters work.

Do they attack after your move?
If so, then that's pretty cheap, IMHO.
It's turn-based, after all, so they attack when their turns come. Or they move. Or use items.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on January 16, 2012, 11:48
Say, how do the monsters work.

Do they attack after your move?
If so, then that's pretty cheap, IMHO.

For details see here: http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Time
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on January 16, 2012, 11:58
Say, how do the monsters work.

Do they attack after your move?
If so, then that's pretty cheap, IMHO.
Ehm, cheap? Didn't it happen to you time and time again, that on _your_ turn you went into a monster's line of sight and got immediately blasted on _it's_ turn?
If you would call this "cheap", than  I have to say that it works both ways. All of the AoMCs could tell the story ...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on January 16, 2012, 14:25
It's a bit cheap when you consider an actual timeline.
You don't act individually, but about simultaneously.

Imagine shooting a demon, as it is now, you'd hit it.
However, if both moves were simultaneous, you'd likely miss - because you didn't shoot the demon's new position. (Prediction, my friend!)

Same thing is when you're for example a melee build, you move towards your target. All while your target is firing.
Now, your target will likely hit - as dodging is based entirely around random numbers and you being parallel to the trajectory or not.

If both moves were simultaneous, however - dodging would actually make sense now. Since if the AI mispredicted, (oh big surprise ain't it) it can miss.
Of course when an action happens would still be based on speed and time taken, basically a new clusterfuck of things.

But honestly, at least in DOOM you can dodge (which makes stuff really easy - but that's not a limitation here), here you pray to Armok for lucky numbers.
Makes space for some new features too, like fire-in-path. (Eg. Firing shots at different trajectories with a chaingun, no point in spraying 'em all in one direction.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on January 16, 2012, 14:42
All missile definitions come with two hit-based fields: a chance for the bullet to miss and an additional multiplier for distance to miss. Whenever this missile is created (always by firing a ranged weapon) it uses these properties to determine whether it will move into the attacked's tile. If a miss occurs, it will instead move into the attacked's previous tile (that is, the position that the attacked was in immediately before the attacker's turn). This is how "dodging" is implemented into DoomRL, which is otherwise an archetypical turn-based game. If you want to see the more technical details of this, check out this Wiki page (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Dodging).

Besides, if I'm not mistaken, a lot of attacks in this game are either bullets or contain a sufficient amount of energy in them to be moving really fast. (Don't let the original game fool you, massive projectiles aren't going to move that slowly if they want to stay in the air.) I'm almost certain that, accuracy aside, these things are going to reach their target far earlier than you'd be able to react to them, rockets being the only reasonable exception.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: FantomFang on January 22, 2012, 02:36
Two things:

1) So I died to JC on an AoMr run. But I still got a standard victory - I thought if you failed there you didn't get any victory. Am I just remembering this wrong?
2) How would you go about beating him on AoMr? I mean, I guess part of the problem was my weaponry - my damage at the end was a mere (2d4+5)x2 after perks. If I had actually found one of the rare weapon packs or rare pistols would I have been fine? I did manage to make it there just on speedloaders. Was kinda funny - had finesse 2, reloader 1, intuition 2, Soab 2, SoG 3, Dualgunner 1 - never did invest in Eagle Eye. But I was firing at a speed of 0.27s and reloading at 0.36 or something, so it was funny. Actually nuked the SM without the lava element - lucked out on invul globe after the lava pits proved to be a no go.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Matt_S on January 22, 2012, 10:11
1) It counts as a standard win for the purposes of your player statistics, but for any medals or badges that require a win it does not.  That's assuming I understand it correctly, because I've only read about it.  I believe even a sacrifice against JC disqualifies any win medals/badges.

2) I can't say.  I don't believe I've ever attempted it, but with all his summons, I think any pistols would have serious problems against him.  The one time where I was going to attempt it, I screwed up with the nuke countdown because of my gravity boots and my ignorance about the lava element's duration.  See my mortem here (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,5023.0.html) and imagine sad violin music playing in the background.  I guess the key is to keep his summons from blocking your line of fire.  Maybe getting in close would help?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on January 22, 2012, 10:57
The one time where I was going to attempt it, I screwed up with the nuke countdown because of my gravity boots and my ignorance about the lava element's duration.  See my mortem here (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,5023.0.html) and imagine sad violin music playing in the background.

What happened it that game? Even after reading the text, I don't understand it.

BTW, a good strategy for killing JC is nuking him, in my experience =)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on January 22, 2012, 11:30
What happened it that game? Even after reading the text, I don't understand it.
If you don't understand as to why the nuke killed him, it's because invincibility (and all other status effects I believe) count down actions you take, rather than time, so a player with gravity boots is most likely going to take about five actions every second, and therefore lose five turns of invulnerability a second.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Matt_S on January 22, 2012, 14:37
Uranium's right.

It was one of my more embarrassing moments, next to holding down left to walk back to the stairs after beating the Lava Pits, and a time when I was similarly holding down directions to move after I thought I cleared out a level (I didn't bother checking for blue level text) while in reality a demon was hiding in a closed corner room.  My worst moment of stupidity is probably when I was carelessly wandering around picking up items in a cleared cave at low health, with enviroboots sitting in my inventory.  To preserve my dignity, I'll let you all fill in the blanks about how those runs ended =/
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on January 22, 2012, 15:30
Thanks! I didn't know what gravity boots did. Now I see they give you quite a speed boost.

BTW, my stupidest action was probably when I was playing a vampyre build and decided to put by bulk and power modded red armor on the ground, so it wouldn't be needlessly damaged when clearing the City of Skulls and then decided to go wild with the new BFG, since there was more plasma ammo than I could carry. When I was finished, my only armor was nowhere to be found. It didn't kill me though, I'm pretty sure I managed to finish that run.

But let's not derail this thread any more.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: spacedust on January 25, 2012, 11:01
've been playing DoomRL for quite a while now, just registered to post a question because I still don't understand shotgun mechanics well. Specifically, the double shotgun - is it and its kin considered as rapid-fire shotguns, since they fire 2 shots in succession? I'm asking because the most recent changelog states something quite crazy imo - Trigger Happy now works with rapid-fire shotguns. Does the DS get the benefit of TH and fire 3 shells instead of 2?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: IronBeer on January 25, 2012, 11:35
've been playing DoomRL for quite a while now, just registered to post a question because I still don't understand shotgun mechanics well. Specifically, the double shotgun - is it and its kin considered as rapid-fire shotguns, since they fire 2 shots in succession? I'm asking because the most recent changelog states something quite crazy imo - Trigger Happy now works with rapid-fire shotguns. Does the DS get the benefit of TH and fire 3 shells instead of 2?
I don't think it does, and it doesn't matter anyways. Double and Super Shotguns only have clipsize of 2, so despite any traits or modding, those weapons will only ever fire two shells max.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on January 25, 2012, 11:55
There's a unique shotgun that can fire three shots in bursts of three. (Thus clip size is 9)

So I'd guess Triggerhappy affects that one now.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on January 25, 2012, 12:11
iirc this unique shotgun now has 2 shots instead of three.And TH2 didn't work for me when i tried to kill shambler with it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: spacedust on January 31, 2012, 00:47
Quick question: do enemies still converge to the center of the map? I recall they did in the older builds but things seem to have changed. I skipped 0.9.9.4 altogether but the AI seems to be different now as HA seems different.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on January 31, 2012, 07:41
Quick question: do enemies still converge to the center of the map?
Not at all. The game used to have a default AI for enemies, as well as a set of flags to alter it slightly: now everything is built using lua-side AI, with completely customizable objects. From a modder's perspective, this requires creating your own AI from scratch if you don't like any of the base game's. I am planning on including a small library of "default states" that most base AI tend to use, so that it's easier to work with what already exists.

But yeah, instead of converging at the center of the map, most enemies now have a path-finding algorithm that moves them from place to place. They're pretty good about rounding corners, too!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on January 31, 2012, 08:12
I'm thinking of trying for Berserker Platinum, which needs winning on UV with 75% kills. Is there a way to check how many enemies I've killed so far, or even a way to find out how many I've left alive? If not, I suppose I'll just count each kill manually so I know in hell how many tough enemies I can leave be...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on January 31, 2012, 11:58
This could well go into the Request for features thread, as quite a lot of higher badges are dependent on kill percentage, and it could be shown, for example, in "@" screen.
Just a bit of modification: The screen should only show kill until the last level past, _not_ including the current level (which would leave the player to know how many enemies are left on the current floor).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on January 31, 2012, 12:47
This could well go into the Request for features thread, as quite a lot of higher badges are dependent on kill percentage, and it could be shown, for example, in "@" screen.
tehtmi managed to change the statistics so that they automatically update whenever you access them, so this sort of thing can be a lot easier to implement. I agree that it'd fit best on the character info screen.

To answer the question, there's no way to go about checking kills and max kills right now.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: GrimmC on January 31, 2012, 14:17
Interesting. I always thought the kill percentage wasn't displayed to add a bit of "roguelike" hardness to the game, i.e., "you just spent 2 hours trying to get 100% kills just to find out you didn't, ha ha!"
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on February 12, 2012, 11:44
Is the tristar blaster useful?  If so, when?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sihoiba on February 13, 2012, 11:47
Modding Assemblies as a Technician how is it supposed to work?

I thought it was you could add one additional mod to an item before completely the assembly if you have wizzkid 2. Except whenever I do that, I don't get the option to actual assemble the item.

Also does the order of mods matter, other than for how it affects the final stats?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tinyrodent on February 13, 2012, 12:01
Make the assembly after getting WK2, then you can add one additional mod.

The order of mods has no effect as of 0.9.9.5
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sihoiba on February 13, 2012, 12:51
Make the assembly after getting WK2, then you can add one additional mod.

The order of mods has no effect as of 0.9.9.5

So do all the mods have to go on after WK2? And is it assemble them mod, or mod then assemble?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uitë on February 13, 2012, 13:07
Make your assembly first, then you can add one more mod to your assembled item, but only if you already had WK2 at the time you made it. To clarify, only the last mod required for the assembly has to be added after getting WK2, you can put the rest of them on it before that.

EDIT:
Spoiler: example (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on February 13, 2012, 13:26
It works like this:

Without WK, you can only attach a single mod to any weapon or armour. However, if the second mod would result in a basic assembly, you are allow to assembly it, which means you can construct all the basic assemblies without any levels in WK.

With WK1, you can attach up to three mods to weapons and two to armour, which allows you to assemble advanced assemblies, and with WK2 you can attach up to five mods to weapons and three mods to armour, which allows you to assemble the master assemblies.

WK2 has an additional benefit, that any assemblies assembled after getting it can be modded once with any mod.

It took me quite a while to figure that out too.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: grommile on February 21, 2012, 13:59
Any tips for dealing with Cybie in a pistol game in 0995, given that he shows up earlier and will try to shoot through walls to kill you?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on February 21, 2012, 15:12
I would say that Phase devices are your friend, and unless you have DM, don't try to take him on head on.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on February 21, 2012, 15:15
Dodgemaster.Easy.
Running + staying near the edge of vision and sidestepping.Without EE not efficient.Without running chance to dodge is less but still worth it i think.
Fireproof red armor.Decent solution.
Wearing any armor with high melee res and staying near Cybie.Maybe even making ballistic armor assembly.
Berserker trait.Not sure why would you have it in pistol game, but it really helps.
If you get knocked back and don't see Cybie and don't believe in sidestepping - get to the wall so you can just shoot, heal,shoot,heal and so on.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Dreadlord on February 25, 2012, 03:36
Any tips about beating the City of Skulls with Eagle Eye Technician? I usually go for assault rifle/turboblaster, and OMG DOZENS OF LOST SOULS AT POINT BLANK RANGE after the lever is pulled are not that easy to deal with for nooby me.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Pricklyman on February 25, 2012, 04:54
Any tips about beating the City of Skulls with Eagle Eye Technician? I usually go for assault rifle/turboblaster, and OMG DOZENS OF LOST SOULS AT POINT BLANK RANGE after the lever is pulled are not that easy to deal with for nooby me.

Homing phase - best thing ever in City of Skulls.

I managed to clear the thing on AoMr with a homing phase! (i.e. bullets!)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on February 25, 2012, 08:48
Homing phase - best thing ever in City of Skulls.

Well, best thing ever in CoS is definitely vampyre but this comes close =)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Dreadlord on February 25, 2012, 08:55
Too bad I don't get that kind of things quite often - over all games where I could get to the City of Skulls I have never actually seen a single homing phase.

EDIT: Well, the last run was not that bad. I scavenged an Onyx mod pack from Grammaton Cleric Beretta and my red PO armour made things a little easier.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Pricklyman on February 25, 2012, 17:07
Well, best thing ever in CoS is definitely vampyre but this comes close =)

Yeah, but vampyre is a build, so it's a little harder to obtain than a item...

If you pray hard enough to RNG that is... :D
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on February 27, 2012, 01:59
Homing phase - best thing ever in City of Skulls.

I managed to clear the thing on AoMr with a homing phase! (i.e. bullets!)

Even a regular phase is probably more likely to put you into a better position then at the lever. But "more likely" is far from "certainly".
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on February 27, 2012, 03:31
how come I can never pass Hell's Arena on AoD? I have managed to defeat first wave of enemies (HNTR), the voice asked if I'd continue, I say yes, and I can't for my life wreck all of them down, they either constantly reappear, or get revived like in Nightmare!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on February 27, 2012, 08:25
Stack corpses.
Or personally i'd just skip it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on February 27, 2012, 09:03
how come I can never pass Hell's Arena on AoD?...I can't for my life wreck all of them down, they either constantly reappear, or get revived like in Nightmare!
They ARE reviving like in Nightmare!. That's one of the changes that AoD imposes: I'm surprised you never noticed it until then. But yeah, corpse-stacking is a pretty good way to deal with reviving enemies when you don't have explosives handy.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on February 27, 2012, 21:00
it was my first AoD try, that's why I didn't noticed that. Thanks.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on February 28, 2012, 05:12
it was my first AoD try, that's why I didn't noticed that. Thanks.

Yeah, it has taken me by surprise as well. The challenge description (intentionally, probably) doesn't mention this little fact.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: bardysya on February 28, 2012, 09:16
Why on AoB 0.9.9.5. large healing globes don't give any berserk, and in challenge description is written that they work as berserk packs?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on February 28, 2012, 09:19
Why on AoB 0.9.9.5. large healing globes don't give any berserk, and in challenge description is written that they work as berserk packs?
A bug, long known about and fixed for 0.996.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on February 28, 2012, 15:28
Not sure if this should go in the Modding forum, but it seemed too small to warrant a new thread.
Is there any way to find out what sprite number each item uses, or is it just trial and error to find the ideal number?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on February 28, 2012, 19:32
Not sure if this should go in the Modding forum, but it seemed too small to warrant a new thread.
Is there any way to find out what sprite number each item uses, or is it just trial and error to find the ideal number?
Nothing other than trial and error for now, correct. I'll try to include a page on the modding section of the wiki that has all of the sprites and their corresponding sprite number.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tinyrodent on February 28, 2012, 19:46
Not sure if this should go in the Modding forum, but it seemed too small to warrant a new thread.
Is there any way to find out what sprite number each item uses, or is it just trial and error to find the ideal number?

For this I would recommend something like:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then in the .run function of your module:
Code: [Select]
core.log(dump(items))
It will dump out all of the properties of all of the items in log.txt. So you'll see stuff like:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
which of course includes the "sprite" property.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on February 28, 2012, 19:55
however, that is unwise. Internally the sprites are referenced by names and not numbers -- and once GH has a moment he'll post the name list to the wiki.

This will make it way easier to keep compatibility if the spritesheets change.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Robsoie on February 29, 2012, 08:00
Question about 0.9.9.6 keybindings.lua

In previous version (up to 0.9.9.5) , i used to bind the (regular) shotgun and pistol to the PageUp and PageDown of my keyboard.
So in the keybindings.lua i had :
   PAGEDOWN     = function() command.quick_weapon('pistol') end,
   PAGEUP     = function() command.quick_weapon('shotgun') end,

And it worked very well.


In 0.9.9.6, all i obtain from this is "unknown command" , i have tried with :
   PAGEDOWN     = function() command.quick_weapon('pistol') end,
   PAGEUP     = function() command.quick_weapon('shotgun') end,

or
   ["PAGEDOWN"]    = function() command.quick_weapon('pistol') end,
   ["PAGEUP"]     = function() command.quick_weapon('shotgun') end,

All my other key binding are working, but i'm unable to make those 2 work in 0.9.9.6, is there a solution ?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tinyrodent on February 29, 2012, 10:33
Internally the sprites are referenced by names and not numbers

This function will dump out all of the sprite constants:
Code: [Select]
local function dumpsprites()
local t = {}
for k,v in pairs(_G) do
if (string.sub(k,1,6) == "SPRITE") then
core.log(k .. " = " .. v)
end
end
end

And here they are:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Angles of death on February 29, 2012, 18:55
Is it just me, or has the AI improved?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on February 29, 2012, 20:32
the pathfinding has been really improved, previously I had a very easy time in City of Skulls with a Vampyre, because souls lined up in a queue in an attempt to attack me from diagonals, now they don't stack like this but instead get around corners and monsters and can surround you in no time. For this reason I start having major trouble in Anomaly, I even expect that souls have got a speed/walkspeed boost in the line of 0.3s/tile, I was able to outrun them previously, but now I can't.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on March 01, 2012, 02:06
Yeah, the Lost Souls are scary right now. And even demons can no longer be easily escaped by running through a door and closing it. It also helps that the melee enemy bug (which I thought of as "Gay pinkies syndrome") is gone. The lost souls are now very quick in dispersing around the map.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on March 01, 2012, 08:36
It also helps that the melee enemy bug (which I thought of as "Gay pinkies syndrome") is gone. The lost souls are now very quick in dispersing around the map.
Actually I'm still seeing this persist in rare occasions (usually involving more than two demons/souls though). I'll need to take another look at the AI code, maybe just make it impossible for them to be next to each other when the player isn't in sight.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on March 01, 2012, 17:59
Actually I'm still seeing this persist in rare occasions (usually involving more than two demons/souls though). I'll need to take another look at the AI code, maybe just make it impossible for them to be next to each other when the player isn't in sight.

Yeah, it still exists, and even for just 2 demons.  Like these 2 in the image attached.  They didn't move a bit until I got in close to them.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tinyrodent on March 01, 2012, 19:43
maybe just make it impossible for them to be next to each other when the player isn't in sight.

The movement freeze doesn't seem to require them being next to each other. I've observed it on many occasions like the screenshot above.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: void on March 01, 2012, 19:52
graphics version - windowed mode - minimap question

personally i find the minimap in the graphics version extremely hard to use, because:
#1 - it's too "transparency" - I cant tell the difference between a red dot and a dark red dot for example (fuel & enemy);
#2 - it's way too small.

now I believe the "too small" problem can be addressed by change the settings:

-- minimap size multiplication, set to 0 to remove minimap, -1 is auto
-- choice based on resolution
WindowedMiniMapSize = -1

; however I cant seem to find a viable number to make it larger - setting it to 0.5 removes minimap completely, setting it to 2 actually reduces the size in half.
the comment says "minimap size multiplication", I'd thought if I say 2 it'll be twice as larger as default, no? :(

help urgently needed on these two issues...otherwise I gotta stick to the ASCII ver :(


Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tinyrodent on March 01, 2012, 20:20
I use FullscreenMiniMapSize = 6
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: void on March 01, 2012, 22:42
I use FullscreenMiniMapSize = 6

thanks :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uitë on March 02, 2012, 02:18
I believe the number is the amount of pixels used to display each tile on the minimap, so using that you can easily set it to precisely what you want!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: bardysya on March 02, 2012, 06:35
Have a strange question. Why my config.lua file doesn't change? I made some changes for me, then I press "save" and it writes: Cannot create a file config.lua. Check check the path and file name. What I gotta do?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on March 02, 2012, 06:49
bardysya, clear read-only flag from the file.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: bardysya on March 02, 2012, 08:34
bardysya, clear read-only flag from the file.
Oh... didn't try to do like that... Thanks!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Dreadlord on March 02, 2012, 13:45
In the new version I went through my usual chaingun + 3A and instead of 'assault rifle' it now says 'assault chaingun'. Is this schematic now available to other weapons as well?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tinyrodent on March 02, 2012, 14:09
In the new version I went through my usual chaingun + 3A and instead of 'assault rifle' it now says 'assault chaingun'. Is this schematic now available to other weapons as well?

Yes check the Assemblies page in your game:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Demetrious on March 04, 2012, 17:29
I'm getting back to a Version 9.9.3 Ao100 game I haven't touched in a while, and I find myself with a conundrum. I'm using a rapid-fire build with the minigun for efficiency and a plasma rifle for tougher enemies. Given that it's Ao100, Whizkid was an immediate pick; but now I don't know if I should assemble the hyperblaster, or if I'd be better off with a vanilla plasma rifle with as many power + bulk mods as I can cram onto it, or something similar. I should note I've taken Eagle Eye/Intuition, not Ammochain, so accuracy isn't an issue for me.

EDIT: I've run the maths a few times, and it's when Tech mods and Finesse come into play that I start getting confused. Even with, say, two power mods on the Plasma Rifle, the Hyperblaster has an edge in damage-per-second, because it's firing time is exactly half that of the Plasma Rifle (0.5) But with two levels of Finesse and two tech mods...? I'm also worried about diminishing returns, since, if I recall correctly, a weapon can only be lowered to 0.2 firing time, no matter what mods are applied.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Napsterbater on March 04, 2012, 17:44
How might I bind the backtick key to an action in 0.9.9.6? Neither "BACKTICK" nor "BACKQUOTE" seem to work.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Hissatsu on March 05, 2012, 02:15
About that new assault assembly, does it mean i can mod things like laser rifle and minigun and bfg10k? Or i can only mod standart chaingun/plasma rifle into assault version?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on March 05, 2012, 05:56
Laser rifle and Minigun - yes. bfg10k iirc no, as you can't mod it with 2 mods, only one.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Rapturous on March 05, 2012, 09:15
I notice some people have a larger resolution for this game.  My computer can certainly handle a bigger res (zoomed out to see entire floor in full screen), but I'm not sure how to go about doing that.  Can't find it in the config file.  Anyone?  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uitë on March 05, 2012, 09:40
I'm assuming this is for the graphical version. You could edit FullscreenTileMult in config.lua. By default it autodetects your resolution and sets it accordingly, but manually setting it to 1 would force the smallest tile size in fullscreen.

EDIT: I have a question of my own: What is the rationale behind displaying percentages for health, armour and experience instead of the raw values?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on March 05, 2012, 10:06
I have a question of my own: What is the rationale behind displaying percentages for health, armour and experience instead of the raw values?
Remember Doom? Health and armor were displayed this way there. DoomRL just keeps up with this trend.
And for experience - since XP gained for a particular kill is not shown anywhere, what would be the reason to show the raw number there, instead of the percentage?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uitë on March 05, 2012, 10:41
I guess my question is more "why is important game information hidden under an extra layer like that"

I get that Doom did it, but Roguelikes generally don't, so why the decision to follow the Doom convention, and not the Roguelike one?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on March 05, 2012, 10:58
I guess my question is more "why is important game information hidden under an extra layer like that"
Experience is more easily recognized in a percentage form, and there's not enough room to place both current and needed numbers (experience curves rather quickly in DoomRL, so even 10^4 values aren't rare). Armor is already a point-for-point system, such that 1% durability is the same thing as unit of durability: we could remove the percent sign and it wouldn't make a difference.

Health, therefore, is the only serious candidate for change, but I can see why it could be useful to express it in such a manner. I wouldn't be surprised if the current state has to do with the amount of space available on the console. If nothing else, we should probably include the player's 100% health "number" somewhere so that players can have a reference value.

I notice some people have a larger resolution for this game.  My computer can certainly handle a bigger res (zoomed out to see entire floor in full screen), but I'm not sure how to go about doing that.  Can't find it in the config file.  Anyone?  Thanks in advance.
There should be some parameters in config.lua near the top with words like "Windowed" and "Fullscreen": these are probably what you're looking for. I forget the exact names, but there's probably something that sounds like "WindowedScreenWidth" and "WindowedScreenHeight", which would be used to set the resolution of the windowed game (similar for Fullscreen).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on March 05, 2012, 11:08
If nothing else, we should probably include the player's 100% health "number" somewhere so that players can have a reference value.

The "@" screen, most likely. I wouldn't mind more precise stats there.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Rapturous on March 05, 2012, 11:35
Res set and fixed up.  Thanks to both!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Napsterbater on March 05, 2012, 15:38
I took a wild guess and managed to get it, it's "BQUOTE". I like to map Escape to backquote, it's much easier to reach.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: skarczew on March 08, 2012, 04:55
Is it just me, or has the AI improved?
Compared with the last version I played (year ago I guess) it has.

Lost Souls and Revenants are especially worth noticing.
Both of those got bullet resistances, which makes them really deadly at the start of the game.
Pain Elemental changed from pushover into a real problem in AoMr and AoP now.

And Revenants are just a pain in the arse.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on March 08, 2012, 05:36
At least Viles got nerfed, I think, and are now quite capable of missing you by several tiles if you keep moving. Not that I ever remember it and use it against them...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on March 12, 2012, 03:44
How to look the list of known assemblies mid-game? (So far I was using Wiki in a browser window, but seeing there is a way to do it in-game I'd prefer that.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uitë on March 12, 2012, 04:08
It's under the 'A' key. That's the capital letter, so you'll probably need to hold shift as well.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on March 12, 2012, 04:48
oh thanks :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sergeek on March 12, 2012, 05:26
Forgive me If this question was already answered for several times, but I couldn't find anything about it even on wiki.
Does drop-rate somehow connected to difficulty? Playing only on "Hey, Not Too Rough", descended to Hell 6, visited almost all unique levels, but nothing of real value was found. Yes, I have some unique levels guaranteed special items like Missile Launcher, BFG9k, Longinus Spear, but almost none of randomly dropped specials. No special mods, four special armors(only one unique and three low-tier exotics), about two special guns(combat pistol, acid gun). Maybe I should switch to harder difficulty for better drop?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Mahreen on March 12, 2012, 06:53
I'm just being curious: Are all the sprites of normal monster a size of 32x32, and the bigger ones of 128x128?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on March 12, 2012, 07:34
Does drop-rate somehow connected to difficulty?
Everything you need to know about item generation can be found on this wiki page (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Item_Generation). That there is no distinction of difficulty on that page only means that there's no connection to it and generation rates. The only positive boon for playing on a higher difficulty (aside from getting higher-tiered badges/medals) is that you'll level up faster as a result of more enemies.

I'm just being curious: Are all the sprites of normal monster a size of 32x32, and the bigger ones of 128x128?
I believe the big sprites, such as the Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind, are actually just 64x64 (so that they could potentially take up as many as four tiles). 128x128 would be really huge.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: gunofdis on March 12, 2012, 10:26
e: I can't read
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Zyz on March 13, 2012, 23:26
How do you turn off sound?

Never mind, I figured it out. You can turn it off in the config.lua.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on March 14, 2012, 01:06
There are two buttons: one to turn off the sound, another one to turn of the music.You can check bindings for them in keybindings.lua
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on March 14, 2012, 01:23
Also, default keys are ( and )
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Chronos on March 14, 2012, 08:34
I recently played a ITYTD in wich I cleared all 7 special levels, then I died to a Vile on level 23. Then I won the Conqueror Badge. Is it intended to get the medal without winning the game?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on March 14, 2012, 08:37
I recently played a ITYTD in wich I cleared all 7 special levels, then I died to a Vile on level 23. Then I won the Conqueror Badge. Is it intended to get the medal without winning the game?

Definitely. I'm a little surprised that you can get it on ITYTD, but this is one of the medals/badges that don't require finishing the game.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Creepy on March 14, 2012, 11:46
With Shottyman, a combat shotgun, and a box of shells, it looked like move-reloads still were pulling shells out of my inventory instead of my inventory instead of the box in my prepared slot. Is that supposed to happen?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uitë on March 14, 2012, 11:58
That's how it's supposed to work. If you think about it, this way is actually preferable, because reload times don't really apply to moving reloads, and shell boxes can't be replenished the way stacks of ammo in your inventory can.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on March 14, 2012, 12:23
Though I hope it was already fixed so that if you only have shell boxes, it will allow you to reload on the move.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on March 14, 2012, 23:57
it's fixed, but you have to prepare the shell box for it to work.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Ashannar on March 16, 2012, 00:10
Help me understand accuracy.

I'm running an ammochain build on Ao100 at the moment. I found a sniper weapon pack and thought it would solve all my accuracy problems, but I might be wrong. If I'm understanding this correctly, all it does is negate the accuracy penalty for range.

What this means is that an agility mod is actually superior to a sniper weapon pack at close range (+1 vs. +0), equal at medium range, and inferior at long range. Am I correct? What are good mods to put on a plasma rifle for my build (please, nothing higher than basic assemblies; haven't found them yet). I have a sniper weapon pack; maybe an agi to round things out? How much accuracy is enough?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on March 16, 2012, 00:26
yes, sniper mod pack was nerfed in 0996, now first appliance of it negates range penalty, second appliance negates out-of-sight penalty (the one that states if you don't see an opponent, every missile is checked for an additional 50% chance to miss). You still need base accuracy to have a chance to land a missile.

Ammochain and plasma rifle? Apart from the hyperblaster (advanced assembly), I guess sniper mod with an A mod and rest T&B should do. No sniper mod - any mod can do IMHO, but consider taking T mods over P mods, as you will probably want to dodge once in a while. And check thresholds for your Fin level and rounding.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on March 16, 2012, 00:37
Help me understand accuracy.

I'm running an ammochain build on Ao100 at the moment. I found a sniper weapon pack and thought it would solve all my accuracy problems, but I might be wrong. If I'm understanding this correctly, all it does is negate the accuracy penalty for range.

What this means is that an agility mod is actually superior to a sniper weapon pack at close range (+1 vs. +0), equal at medium range, and inferior at long range. Am I correct? What are good mods to put on a plasma rifle for my build (please, nothing higher than basic assemblies; haven't found them yet). I have a sniper weapon pack; maybe an agi to round things out? How much accuracy is enough?

Accuracy is a 3d6 roll.  The plus bonuses are increases to the maximum roll needed to hit (rolling lower is better) and 10 is the base line (50% chance)  Without counting any penalties, including from range, anything more than +6 won't do any good, since rolls of 17 and 18 always miss.

At line of sight range, anything more than +8 doesn't help you, and line of sight and running means anything more than +10 won't do much good unless you are firing at something outside your line of sight, which has a separate 50% failure chance if the shot would otherwise hit.

The first sniper pack removes the distance penalty, so anything more than +6 (+8 if running) wouldn't do any good.  The plasma rifle has +2 Accuracy, so at close range, it's 74% chance (12 or lower on 3d6), medium range 62% (11), and 50% at line of sight (10).  Adding an agility mod makes these 84%/74%/62%.  Adding the sniper pack will make it 74% across the board, and 37% for anything outside of your line of sight (which without it would eventually bottom out at 1%)

The only basic assembly you can make on the plasma rifle is high power weapon, which is damage bonus / reduced weapon clip size, and thus you wouldn't be able to add the A or S mod to it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Creepy on March 17, 2012, 12:00
Whizkid's wiki entry says "The second rank of Whizkid additionally allows any assemblies made afterwards to be modded once."

Except I can't mod my high power pistol, or my nanofiber cybernetic armor even with two ranks in whizkid. This is sort of aggravating.

So how does whizkid ACTUALLY work, since the wiki doesn't quite have the right info?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on March 17, 2012, 12:26
Whizkid allows you to add an extra two mods to a weapon or one mod to armour/boots for each level you have. In addition, if you have WK2 before you assemble something, you can add an extra mod on top of it. So if you made another high power weapon now, you'll be able to mod it a further time. Has been explained before, but I can't blame you for asking as it is quite fiddly.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Pricklyman on March 18, 2012, 13:56
Whizkid allows you to add an extra two mods to a weapon or one mod to armour/boots for each level you have. In addition, if you have WK2 before you assemble something, you can add an extra mod on top of it. So if you made another high power weapon now, you'll be able to mod it a further time. Has been explained before, but I can't blame you for asking as it is quite fiddly.

Can't disagree, can we actually get this fixed? (Either to have to better explained as opposed to just a forum secret - or to have it so WK2 is the prerequisite for the assembly - not a prerequisite to the making of the assembly which you want to mod further...)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: skarczew on March 18, 2012, 14:00
Whizkid allows you to add an extra two mods to a weapon or one mod to armour/boots for each level you have. In addition, if you have WK2 before you assemble something, you can add an extra mod on top of it. So if you made another high power weapon now, you'll be able to mod it a further time. Has been explained before, but I can't blame you for asking as it is quite fiddly.
Actually, this is bad, illogical and stupid. Should be always possible to add extra mod on assembly (as long as you have WK2).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on March 18, 2012, 14:12
It's probably due to the way it's implemented.  One of the programmers can correct me if I'm wrong here, but when the assembly is made, it probably sets the non-moddable flag on it so that it can't be modded.  What whizkid 2 does is change that to another flag, the single mod flag, that allows 1 mod to be added on (usually used for specific unique items).  In order to allow all assemblies to have a single mod on, the game would probably have to check all of your items (and every item on the ground) to find the assemblies (which, by the way, are not specially marked to my knowledge) and change the flags around.  I'm sure it COULD be done, but it seems like it would be a lot of work.

E: A quick glance at the item flags shows that there is in fact one for assemblies.  It would still have to check every item in the level, inventory, and equipment for assemblies.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on March 18, 2012, 15:09
Actually, this is bad, illogical and stupid.
Quite logical.You(DoomRLGuy) were stupid when you made an assembly without WK2 so you ruined any possibility to mod it again.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on March 18, 2012, 15:22
Let's say its explainable. I wouldn't go so far as to call it logical.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Mogul on March 18, 2012, 18:00
Does Onyx-modded medical armour still regenerate your health?

If it does, will it lose hidden durability and need to be repaired?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on March 18, 2012, 18:50
Does Onyx-modded medical armour still regenerate your health?
Yes.

If it does, will it lose hidden durability and need to be repaired?
Yeah, it does lose durability, so yes you'll need to repair it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ultimate26 on March 19, 2012, 12:50
Assembly out of an assembly?

I saw some videos with people using Assault cannon, 200 bullets with 10 shots, how to get this weapon?

Whats the best mods to add to nuclear plasma rifle? nuclear hyperblaster any good? i always add 2 bulks and 3 power mods to make it good.

Burst assembly any good? -2 to accuracy makes me not want to make it so much :(
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on March 19, 2012, 12:59
Assembly out of an assembly?
Not possible in this version.

I saw some videos with people using Assault cannon, 200 bullets with 10 shots, how to get this weapon?
Assault Cannon was replaced with the Assault Rifle assembly.

Whats the best mods to add to nuclear plasma rifle? nuclear hyperblaster any good? i always add 2 bulks and 3 power mods to make it good.
(Leaving this one for someone else)

Burst assembly any good? -2 to accuracy makes me not want to make it so much :(
But it fires more shots, and it really depends on what weapon you make it out of.  Eagle Eye will probably offset the penalty some.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on March 19, 2012, 14:57
Quote
Assault Cannon was replaced with the Assault Rifle assembly.
I think you mean burst cannon not assault rifle.
Quote
Whats the best mods to add to nuclear plasma rifle? nuclear hyperblaster any good? i always add 2 bulks and 3 power mods to make it good.
I prefer B3T2 or something like that.For MAc user with SoB5 S1T3F1 is probably the best.Iirc you can make hyperblaster only out of normal plasma rifle.
Quote
Burst assembly any good?
Once you get SoB4/5 it's no good at all, untill then not sure.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sihoiba on March 21, 2012, 04:12
Doing an Ao100 run, and have a choice

Ony modded Nanofiber skin cybernetic armour or Agility modded Cybernano Cybernetic armour?

7 Armour, Infinite Durability, 25% resistance vs all, -30% move speed, -30% knock back
or
11 Armour, Infinite Durability, 0% resistance, -15% move speed, -30% knock back
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on March 21, 2012, 05:41
Maths say 7 damage +25% res are better than 11 damage and 0 res if the incoming damage is greater than 16... which is the case with Mancubi and Archviles, and sometimes with Revs and Barons too. For me these are of main concern, so take 7 armor over 11, especially if you have some antigravs handy to compensate for lost speed.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ultimate26 on March 21, 2012, 13:36
Possible to get army of dead and survivalist? they dont interfere with each other.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Zecks on March 21, 2012, 13:47
Getting a master trait blocks all the other ones despite meeting the requirements.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on March 22, 2012, 00:46
how to save up on ammo in Ao100? While playing I have already encountered a situation when I was out of everything I have weapons for (no shells, rockets AND cells), thankfully there was an archvile with a lot of chaingunners beside him, so I used that to clear the level, and kept the chaingun to get ahold of the next one. And I don't want it to happen further. No nuclear weapons so far, no nano packs so far (a modded plasma rifle at the ready), one Butcher's Cleaver but without any TaN/Bad/Bru it's largely useless.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uitë on March 22, 2012, 02:35
You don't have to kill everything, so choosing your battles wisely can save you a lot of ammo. Also, it helps to have a low ammo requirement build, such as MAC, MSs or any melee. Melee is a good backup in any case, especially for Ao100.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on March 22, 2012, 02:47
I took MCe for the extended survivability of that build, since I'm pretty noobish in DoomRL, so my task here is to just survive. I was hoping for nuclear plasma, so far there was none... owwww. About melee - having no TaN/Bad and no Bru/Ber as they're blocked severely impairs my meleeing ability, so I ditched the Cleaver for another stack of ammo.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Numbernaut on March 22, 2012, 07:07
I have a slight question.

Seeing how if you know how to, you can equip Dragonslayer.  Can one find out how to equip Berserker Armor, or is it just indefinitely impossible?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on March 22, 2012, 07:10
It's possible and related, from what I heard. I have only seen Berserker Amror only once (Ao100 I believe) and never the Dragonslayer, and therefore I have no idea about the whole thing.
It's said to be obvious once you figure it out.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Numbernaut on March 22, 2012, 07:30
Dang. This really isn't something anyone can notice usually on the first try.

Is the Shambler's ranged attack supposed to go through walls?  I find that monster to be the easiest boss fight for me usually...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: skarczew on March 22, 2012, 11:08
Quite logical.You(DoomRLGuy) were stupid when you made an assembly without WK2 so you ruined any possibility to mod it again.
If someone is a technician then he is everything but stupid ;| .
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: skarczew on March 22, 2012, 11:13
Is the Shambler's ranged attack supposed to go through walls?  I find that monster to be the easiest boss fight for me usually...
Probably bug, probably some other things work the same bugged way (Cyberdemon and his rockets).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: gunofdis on March 22, 2012, 14:05
How does Bullet Dance interact with the GCB and storm bolter?  Testing shows that with TH2 and MBD they fire 2 more shots than normal (as in 8 for full auto gcb, 4 for sb), but I don't know about the time taken.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on March 22, 2012, 14:46
The time would be:

(GCB Fire Time + Storm Bolter Fire Time) / 2 * Dualgunner Mod of 1.2 * Finesse Mod * Son of a Gun Mod * Bullet Dance Mod

or

( 1.00 + 0.80 ) / 2 * 1.2 * Fin Mod * SoG Mod * (0.5 * 2),

which at the base levels needed (SoG 2 and Fin 2) would be 0.45 sec/dualshot.  The shot time can be reduced further with extra levels of Fin or SoG, but no lower than 0.1 sec / dualshot.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: gunofdis on March 22, 2012, 15:45
So you're saying they get the bullet dance time mod, but no extra shots?  What a ripoff.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on March 22, 2012, 16:35
Three things:

1) Bullet Dance is bugged in reference to the time mod, you actually fire 50% faster with only one level of TH, and normal speed with TH 2.  Although both TH and MBD bonuses do not stack, no.

2) This means you can fire more shots with the GCB on single fire, as TH alone doesn't effect it on single fire mode.

3) Storm bolter pistol shouldn't be affected by TH, but it is, and this is also a bug.

But no, TH bonuses + MBD don't mean double extra shots for rapid fire pistols.

Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: gunofdis on March 22, 2012, 16:44
Interesting.  I might almost like MBD with that time bug :stare:
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on March 22, 2012, 22:00
Will a scout with hyperblaster/Fin3 fire at 0.2s? The calculations say 0.25025 s per shot, which side it's rounded to? If lower (first down to 0.250, as we're speaking about energy) then to nearest even 0.2, then it'll be useless to put a tech mod over it to pump firespeed to 0.21, so I could slap a firestorm on it instead, to have a kickass rapidfire chew-em-cells-but-kill-em-all weapon. 0.2 chainfire is what I call PWNAGE - while you're not being fired at.

(Got killed on my UV Ao100 at hell frozen over, phased 1 tile from the stairs BUT with a mancubus at my right and a bunch of barrels on my left. BOOM, you die. But this time I already have a firestorm pack at the ready.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on March 22, 2012, 22:05
Any speed more precise than to the nearest tenth is handled by the energy system, because game turns are only in 0.1 increments.  So, a 0.25s weapon will alternate between taking 2 turns and taking 3 turns (0.2 and 0.3 seconds) each shot.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on March 22, 2012, 22:10
hmm, so making a T-modded hyperblaster will result in 5 shots in 0.21s (if not chainfiring) and with F mod it'll have 7 shots in 0.25s (TH2 of course). Well, this makes it easier to decide. Thanks.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: skarczew on March 23, 2012, 03:58
The shot time can be reduced further with extra levels of Fin or SoG, but no lower than 0.1 sec / dualshot.
Hmm, for some reason in one of my last AoMr runs I had 0.09 fire speed displayed :| .
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on March 23, 2012, 06:09
Hmm, for some reason in one of my last AoMr runs I had 0.09 fire speed displayed :| .
Perhaps you were playing as a Scout with SoG4 and Fin3 and T-modded pistol? Or with SoG5? If yes, then it looks like the max(0.1s,actual value) check (for display at least) is done prior to applying speed factor, since Scouts have 110% speed.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: skarczew on March 23, 2012, 06:22
Yep, I had SoG 5 while playing Scout.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: gunofdis on March 24, 2012, 22:19
Does an F3 tristar blaster really fire 9 shots?  Are they just invisible due to overlapping the normal ones?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on March 25, 2012, 12:33
Does an F3 tristar blaster really fire 9 shots?  Are they just invisible due to overlapping the normal ones?

From what I can tell, F modding a tristar blaster has no effect, other than making it cost more to fire.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Numbernaut on March 25, 2012, 14:53
How does using an envirosuit pack help with the cyberdemon's rockets? How much of the damage is cut down? Does it still damage you if you get directly hit?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on March 25, 2012, 15:12
It gives you +25%(or was it 20%?) to fire and acid resistances.So i guess it cuts 1/4 of initial damage.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: spacedust on March 25, 2012, 23:51
Quick question: Does the AoLT bonus apply to all speeds, or just to move speed, ie do I reload and shoot 20% faster because of it too? Because if it does, AoLT just became my favourite challenge!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on March 26, 2012, 00:07
Yes, but I'm not sure how does it stack with Scout's intrinsic speed boost. It's either 130% base or 120%*110% base (that is 132% effective speed).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Ashannar on March 26, 2012, 01:26
Has monster AI changed in a significant way since 0.9.9.3?

In watching Game Hunter's tutorials, it seems that monsters want to gather in the center of the maps, but I am not noticing this behavior at all in 0.9.9.6.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uitë on March 26, 2012, 04:46
Yeah, the AI received significant upgrades. Not only do they not gravitate to the center, most of them have gotten smarter as well.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: spacedust on March 26, 2012, 05:51
Yes, but I'm not sure how does it stack with Scout's intrinsic speed boost. It's either 130% base or 120%*110% base (that is 132% effective speed).

So to confirm, if I play a Scout on AoLT, my reload, move, and fire speeds are all decreased by around 30%? Whooo!!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on March 26, 2012, 07:57
In watching Game Hunter's tutorials, it seems that monsters want to gather in the center of the maps, but I am not noticing this behavior at all in 0.9.9.6.
Believe it or not, this had already changed a lot for enemies by 0994. I'm planning to redo the tutorial stuff (in such a way as to be even more helpful) for 0997, since we're going to see a bunch of extra content there, but I suppose I could make some new ones soon anyway. I don't think we'll be revamping the everybody's AI anytime soon.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on March 26, 2012, 11:40
Yes, but I'm not sure how does it stack with Scout's intrinsic speed boost. It's either 130% base or 120%*110% base (that is 132% effective speed).

Your speed would be 130, those bonuses are added together.  At 100% move speed, you would take 0.77 s to move.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: N o i r on March 29, 2012, 05:11
Multiple Berserk packs will stack in duration? If I take both those in the Chained Court, will they last twice?
If I take the chainsaw AND the two packs, will they last like three packs?

How long does it take to cycle a Combat Shotgun? That is, not reloading a shell - just pumping the next shell by pressing "r" in place.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Pricklyman on March 29, 2012, 05:14
Multiple Berserk packs will stack in duration? If I take both those in the Chained Court, will they last twice?
If I take the chainsaw AND the two packs, will they last like three packs?

Oh yes, they stack.

Same with invuln and all that jazz. (light amp etc.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: N o i r on March 29, 2012, 05:26
Oh yes, they stack.

Same with invuln and all that jazz. (light amp etc.)

So basically, the best way of clearing the Chained Court on UV would be to kill the Barons safely, kill as many little guys safely, then pick up ALL berserk packs and rocket jump to the Arena Master to kill him with as much berserker duration as possible, to make sure that it won't expire while you are fighting him?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on March 29, 2012, 05:34
So basically, the best way of clearing the Chained Court on UV would be to kill the Barons safely, kill as many little guys safely, then pick up ALL berserk packs and rocket jump to the Arena Master to kill him with as much berserker duration as possible, to make sure that it won't expire while you are fighting him?

It might be a good idea to leave one of the packs for healing after the level is cleared.

Also, if you are playing AoB (or jsut a melee build) and don't finish the arena, you can try to clear the chained court without using berserk packs and then leave with 5 pack's worth of zerk. That can last for a couple of next levels, especially to marines that are too young to die =)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: N o i r on March 29, 2012, 06:33
Thanks everyone. This one got left behind: how long does it take to cycle a Combat Shotgun's shell? That is, not reloading a shell - just pumping the next one by pressing "r" standing in place after firing.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uitë on March 29, 2012, 07:02
iirc, it's 0.2 seconds, regardless of any speed boosts you may have.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on March 29, 2012, 07:02
This kind of information is easily found on the wiki (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Combat_shotgun).

To answer - it takes 0.2 second or whatever your move speed is, in case you pump while moving.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Perfectblue on March 30, 2012, 08:01
This is the first Rogue Like I have ever played, and I am a bit confused by a few of the stats namely increased movement speed/ weapon fire speed/ reload speed.

How do these benefit you in a rogue like when its on a turn by turn basis? For instance, movement speed you move one grid. Same goes with reloading it takes one turn to reload when you press "r". Similarly you can get one shot of per a turn.

I would appreciate clarification.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on March 30, 2012, 08:12
There are two types of time being kept -- real time and game time.  Real time is what your clock is saying, while game time is the "time" tracked by the game.

You can move one grid in "real-time" turn, but that turn will take less game time to complete.  So anything that modifies "time" just changes the amount of game time incurred for that one turn of action.

Also this is a good question to put in the Quick Questions thread instead of starting a new one.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: skarczew on March 30, 2012, 08:20
Quote
For instance, movement speed you move one grid. Same goes with reloading it takes one turn to reload when you press "r". Similarly you can get one shot of per a turn.
Same happens irl.

What is this all speed for, when we all move metre by metre?
Why do all those people complain about reload speed, since we reload when we reload? It takes 1 turn to reload bazooka, and it takes 1 turn to reload railgun...
Oh, and take this: it takes 1 turn to shot from minigun and it takes 1 turn to throw a stick.

Why do we use miniguns when we could use sticks and rocks?

;)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Ashannar on March 30, 2012, 09:43
This is the first Rogue Like I have ever played, and I am a bit confused by a few of the stats namely increased movement speed/ weapon fire speed/ reload speed.

How do these benefit you in a rogue like when its on a turn by turn basis? For instance, movement speed you move one grid. Same goes with reloading it takes one turn to reload when you press "r". Similarly you can get one shot of per a turn.

I would appreciate clarification.

Most enemy actions take 1 second to complete. Thus, it takes 1 second for an imp to fire a fireball, or for a sergeant to move. Now let's say that you took some hellrunner to increase your movement speed and are wearing some tactical armor. Now your movement speed is about 0.5 seconds. This means that for every two times you move, a sergeant only gets to move once. See?

Same goes for firing and reloading. You could be fast as the dickens while you're moving, but it could still take you 1.0 seconds to fire.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Perfectblue on March 30, 2012, 10:20
For technicians, one of their abilities for the class reads "can hack computer maps for tracking data". My question is the computer you "hack" is simply acquiring the map pick up in a level? And once picked up the tracking data is every enemy on the map or is it items too?

Thanks
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on March 30, 2012, 10:21
Just pick up the computer map and you'll get the tracking map effect. Tracking maps provide all of the effects of computer maps with the added bonus of showing you where enemies are - so, yes, it does show items.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Perfectblue on March 30, 2012, 10:57
Thanks Uranium, and everyone that helped me with the turn based speed question I had.

In addition, do perks such as hellrunner that increase dodge chance work on visible projectiles such as an imps fireball or cacodemons projectile attack?

Thanks
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on March 30, 2012, 11:21
It "works" with all projectile attacks except shotguns, but the chance varies depending on the attack and it won't be effective versus all of them.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Ashannar on March 30, 2012, 11:26
Yep, dodge works with hell baron, hell knight, cacodemon, imp, former human, commandos, captains, and mancubi projectiles (though they fire a spread of rockets that is incredibly difficult to dodge). Many of these projectiles have splash damage, which dodge does not protect against, so be careful.

Dodgemaster is a bit different than straight up dodge — if you move and then immediately, say, four projectiles are shot at you afterward, the guaranteed dodge only works on the first (and only if you angled the sidestep correctly). So you'd then have 3 more chances to be hit. But your normal dodge chance will still work against those. Note that dodge chance is completely separate from movement speed. (It just doesn't show up on your character info screen.)

Arch-Vile blasts can be 'dodged,' but it's actually a matter of how fast you move. Their attacks are targeted at you, but you have a little time to move out of the way. You'll probably get hit unless you're very fast.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on March 30, 2012, 11:31
In addition, do perks such as hellrunner that increase dodge chance work on visible projectiles such as an imps fireball or cacodemons projectile attack?

They work only for the visible projectiles, but almost all attacks are "visible projectiles", including the former human's pistols. Unless I'm forgetting something, the only things you cannot dodge are shotguns and melee attacks.

Additionally, you can dodge arch-viles' blasts and revenant's rockets, but they will still hit you with splash damage.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Perfectblue on March 30, 2012, 11:59
Thanks again everyone for the indepth replies. My last question is in regards to assemblies. I though I recall reading somewhere here on the forum once you had figured out an assembly it would save it in a list somewhere for use with all your characters from that point on. Is this correct, and if so where do I access this information?

Thanks
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on March 30, 2012, 12:44
A (that is, shift+a). When you find scematics or assemble something for the first time, it will be added to the list for future reference and you won't find these schematics again.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Perfectblue on March 30, 2012, 19:00
Thanks Klear. In the trait menu on the advanced traits most of them have requirements and block. Under the block category it lists various other skills and some are colored white others are red. If a skill is listed under a certain color as "block" does that mean it disables that particular skill?

I am assuming a skill marked blocked in red means that skill is disabled. And if thats the case its somewhat discouraging because there is not as much room to customize your traits.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on March 30, 2012, 20:10
All traits listed under Blocks cannot be taken if you plan on getting that master trait.  A blocked trait shown in red means that you already have points in it, and therefore don't meet the requirements of the master trait you're looking at.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Pricklyman on March 30, 2012, 21:01
Yeah, as shark said, the skill is disabled only if you decide to get that master trait. Essentially, this is to prevent OP builds which result is...if you took both.

For example, most shotgun masters block Eagle Eye, because there is really no reasoning behind a shotgunner who can also (adequately) handle a chaingun or pistol. (Also, it's OP to specialise in shotguns and chainguns...and have a master in one! =P)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Matt_S on March 30, 2012, 21:35
It's sort of interesting from a design perspective which traits are blocked.  Some stronger masters (Ammochain, Malicious Blades, and Sharpshooter come to mind) block traits that would be really helpful, while "weaker" traits block things that aren't as big of a deal relatively speaking.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Ashannar on March 31, 2012, 09:06
..which doesn't really follow in my case, since I consider cateye to be the most powerful master, yet it blocks nothing I generally want to take.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: skarczew on March 31, 2012, 15:54
What is the Arena Master id for sound.lua / soundhq.lua file?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Perfectblue on March 31, 2012, 16:07
Question regarding armor and resistances.

Often times I am in the lower levels of Phobos and I will find Green Armor. Green armor only has 2 resistances (bullet and shrapnel 15%) but I still seem to notice improved damage protection against many enemies I wouldn't expect to such as Imp (fire damage), Cacodemon (plasma) and so on. So I am a bit confused on the armor damage mitigation mechanic. I am assuming armor protects against every form of attack, but armor sets have additional resistance to specific attacks. For instance Blue Armor will protect against every attack in the game but have additional resistance to Plasma (20%).

Is this correct?



 
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Matt_S on March 31, 2012, 16:16
There's the protection value of armor (the number in square brackets, which is reduced for damaged armor), which is the amount of damage that gets reduced by pretty much all attacks.  The exceptions are plasma damage, where only half of the protection value (rounded down I think) is taken off the damage, and shrapnel, where double the protection gets taken off.  There's also the piercing damage type which I'm pretty sure only the player can get through some special things.  So green armor cuts 1 point of damage off of most attacks, but I don't think it will do anything for plasma damage from cacodemons.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on March 31, 2012, 22:50
What is the Arena Master id for sound.lua / soundhq.lua file?

Fittingly, the id for the Arena Master is "arenamaster".
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: skarczew on April 01, 2012, 04:03
Fittingly, the id for the Arena Master is "arenamaster".
thanks, I have tried "arena", "master", "arena_master" - and nothing worked :P .
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: punkbohemian on April 01, 2012, 22:01
1) What is YASD and YAVP?

2) I'm still new to the game and learning the ropes. I'm not sure I understand weapon mods. If I have two levels of WK, does that mean I can put 6 mods on a pistol? If so, does that mean I can go PPPTBB with the final mod turning it into a Storm Bolt that does 1d14x2 damage?

3) If I do something similar for an energy pistol (PPPPPT), would that be 2d9+9?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: IronBeer on April 01, 2012, 22:09
1) What is YASD and YAVP?
Yet Another Stupid Death
Yet Another Victory Post
These terms are typically used in reference to post-mortem dumps that get posted around here.

2) I'm still new to the game and learning the ropes. I'm not sure I understand weapon mods. If I have two levels of WK, does that mean I can put 6 mods on a pistol? If so, does that mean I can go PPPTBB with the final mod turning it into a Storm Bolt that does 1d14x2 damage?

3) If I do something similar for an energy pistol (PPPPPT), would that be 2d9+9?
That would be awesome, but that's not how assemblies work.

First, WK (2) would allow you to add 5 total mods to a ranged weapon. 1 naturally + (2 per level of WK)*2. Also, you can't add more than 3 of a given type of mod to a ranged weapon. Melee weapons and armor can only take 1 of a given mod type (unless building an assembly), and can take one extra mod per level of WK.

Assemblies can only be made by following a particular "recipe" of mods. Also, assemblies of any level can only be modified if you have WK (2) when you make the assembly, and even then, exactly once.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: punkbohemian on April 01, 2012, 22:22
Quote
First, WK (2) would allow you to add 5 total mods to a ranged weapon. 1 naturally + (2 per level of WK)*2. Also, you can't add more than 3 of a given type of mod to a ranged weapon. Melee weapons and armor can only take 1 of a given mod type (unless building an assembly), and can take one extra mod per level of WK.

Assemblies can only be made by following a particular "recipe" of mods. Also, assemblies of any level can only be modified if you have WK (2) when you make the assembly, and even then, exactly once.

So then, wouldn't the beefy storm bolt work? PPPTBB is no more than three of a type. Or, does it have to be just TBB and that's it?

Regarding your second part, you have to do the extra mod during the assembly? In other words, you can't do the assembly when you have the mods, then add the extra later if you don't have it on hand at the moment?

In short, I'm trying to figure out a few of the best pistol arrangements I can come up with.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: IronBeer on April 01, 2012, 22:33
Or, does it have to be just TBB and that's it?
Yep. You need to match the specified assembly recipe.

Regarding your second part, you have to do the extra mod during the assembly? In other words, you can't do the assembly when you have the mods, then add the extra later if you don't have it on hand at the moment?
You do the assembly first. If you have WK 2 when you make the assembly, you can add a single extra mod any time after the assembly is made.

For example, you want to make a Storm Bolter. If you want to mod it after construction, wait until you have WK 2 before making the assembly. You *could* do any 2 mods leading into that assembly, like BB or TB, first. But when you add that last missing mod, that's when you need WK 2. Following this example, if you build the Storm Bolter, you can add another mod (probably a P or B) at any time, but it'll be the only modification you can make.

Whizkid + assembly interaction is a little counter-intuitive at first, but a little planning can overcome it. Or, you can just live with unmodded assemblies. Most of the Advanced assemblies kick a lot of ass in their own right.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on April 02, 2012, 04:05
Also note that you don't need to have WK to make basic assemblies and don't need WK 2 to make advanced assemblies.

While a doomguy without levels in WK can only add one mod to a weapon or armour, you can still add the second one if the result is an assembly. This is handy for discovering the basic assemblies, since if the second mod doesn't make an assembly, you won't be able to add it and it returns to your inventory.

Though judging by your post, you already looked the assemblies up in the wiki, so you have little to gain by discovering them.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Perfectblue on April 02, 2012, 09:15
How many levels are there total in DoomRL at the moment (include or exclude special levels, your choice).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Matt_S on April 02, 2012, 09:34
There are 24 regular levels including Phobos Entry and the three end-episode boss levels, and 11 special levels (only 7 on ITYTD).  Also...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Perfectblue on April 02, 2012, 15:07
Thanks Matt_S.

I was wondering if I encountered a vault. I found a plasma rifle on level 2. I am not certain if it was a vault or not because I can't remember what the level feeling said, or if there even was one.

(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/715/plasma.png)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on April 02, 2012, 15:12
Yep, it's a vault. Vaults aren't subject to the minimum levels of items (hence why you found a plasmarifle on level 2). You can also tell because it's a room with a single door surrounded by a 1-space thin walkway.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on April 03, 2012, 02:28
The level feelings announcing a vault on a level are:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Pricklyman on April 03, 2012, 04:12
Also, there's blood EVERYWHERE inside! =D
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on April 04, 2012, 07:58
Can Scavendger Diamond be achieved through multiple uses of alt-fire of AS(whisper of)?
I mean just use it 4 times to kill everything and don't bother trying to phase in the middle vault.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on April 04, 2012, 08:00
One should test I think :) While I do think it counts as clear, as it's not a nuke, and kills are made. But be careful with what will happen after 3rd use, since some revenants in the central vault can get revived.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on April 04, 2012, 08:04
Oh, right.Seems like 4 uses is possible only for lucky Tech, all others will have to go with 5.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Perfectblue on April 05, 2012, 23:02
I am having an issue with quick swap. Lets say my current active is the rocket launcher, and I put my shotgun in the prepared slot.

When I hit Z to swap it initially works just fine; however, once I start switching through my other weapons it will swap out something completely random. For instance, lets say I hit the hotkey to change from my rocket launcher to the pistol with the 2 key. If I want to swap back to my shotgun with Z, it wont work typically it will be some completely random weapon.

Its rather frustrating.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 05, 2012, 23:06
You actually have 2 active slots, 1 for your 'ready' weapon and 1 for the 'prepared'. As soon as you select another weapon, this replaces your current 'ready'. Prepared remains the same, and Z keeps switching between these 2.

The only way to reset is by manually selecting your 'ready' and/or 'prepared' again.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on April 05, 2012, 23:17
So, in order to swap back to shotgun, if it's no longer in prepared slot, press 3. Note that in case of you having more than one shotgun, a loaded one will be pulled out of inventory if there are any loaded shotties left.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Perfectblue on April 05, 2012, 23:17
You actually have 2 active slots, 1 for your 'ready' weapon and 1 for the 'prepared'. As soon as you select another weapon, this replaces your current 'ready'. Prepared remains the same, and Z keeps switching between these 2.

The only way to reset is by manually selecting your 'ready' and/or 'prepared' again.

Interesting, because I thought I recall both the ready and prepared changing. If the prepared would remain consistent no matter what the active ready weapon was I wouldnt have a problem, but the prepared keeps changing on me.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 05, 2012, 23:27
Unless you're going through the 'e' screen (forgot the name), the only way to change the prepared is by pressing Z, and it will always be replace by whatever you have in your hands at that point. For example:

* You have a shotgun ready/rocket launcher prepared and press Z
* You now have a RL ready/shotgun prepared and press 1
* You now have a pistol ready/shotgun prepared and press Z
* You now have a shotgun ready/pistol prepared and select the chainsaw from your inventory
* You now have a chainsaw ready/pistol prepared etcetc

This is how it should work at least; Z switches ready and prepared that are currently equipped, any other selection changes the ready.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Perfectblue on April 06, 2012, 07:53
@LuckyDee

I suppose that is the problem then. I am wanting game to "lock in" whatever item I place in my prepared slot. For instance, always a shotgun I can change to on the fly with Z. But as you said if I start switching around weapons, the prepared slot starts to switch as well.

This seems counter intuitive to me, and admittedly a bit frustrating.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on April 06, 2012, 08:02
Ahh I've got it. There is a case with calling weapons with keys, if you have a responding weapon in your prepared slot, the game initiates a swap instead of pulling from inventory, just because it is faster. We usually miss this because the prepared slot is the best place to store an exotic weapon of any kind, or a chainsaw, which is called by pressing zero key, and we usually don't have a loaded BFG on swap to hit the point with two BFGs, while it's a pretty common case with shotguns, since if you take Juggler early, you can storm your enemies with shellfire from more than a single loaded shotgun in inventory, which is highly useful early on. To make it work, you have to have two weapons to place in your hands that are not shotguns, because of the said effect that a swap is checked before inventory.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 06, 2012, 08:05
I found it odd at first as well, but once you know this it's pretty easy to get used to. Usually you won't need more than 2 weapons for any given level anyway, so once you have your 2 weapons in place, you'll only need your Z key for a while.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on April 06, 2012, 09:31
Ahh I've got it. There is a case with calling weapons with keys, if you have a responding weapon in your prepared slot, the game initiates a swap instead of pulling from inventory, just because it is faster.

It isn't faster, quick key swapping and prepared swapping actually take the same amount of time (0.8s).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on April 06, 2012, 10:07
It isn't faster, quick key swapping and prepared swapping actually take the same amount of time (0.8s).
Hmm, I was under an impression that quickkeying a weapon costs 1.0s, and swapping for prepared costs 0.8s. And then, how long does it take to use equip/swap for inventory (e - down - tab - select), and how long is to use weapon from inventory (i - select)?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on April 06, 2012, 11:14
Both are 1 second.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Skibbler on April 07, 2012, 08:01
Four questions:

1) Can the Jackhammer be modded? I have this fantasy: getting a Jackhammer as a technician, making a nanoshrapnel assembly, then adding a firestorm pack for a 5d3 x 5 weapon that ignores all armor/resistances, and needs no ammo. If only there were a way to eliminate the -5% damage per tile between you and your target.

2) I understand that mod order affects the stats of the result when creating assemblies. How exactly?

3) When making an armor assembly which requires two of the same mod, am I correct in assuming the following: the order does not matter except that the duplicate mod must be added last.

4) At what stage in the calculations is the bonuses from son of a bitch applied? So basically I'm asking whether resistances, armor, damage falloff for shotguns, etc. affects the sob bonus.

Thanks in advance.

Also, how do I mod my player files to unlock certain challenges?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on April 07, 2012, 08:24
Four questions:

1) Can the Jackhammer be modded? I have this fantasy: getting a Jackhammer as a technician, making a nanoshrapnel assembly, then adding a firestorm pack for a 5d3 x 5 weapon that ignores all armor/resistances, and needs no ammo. If only there were a way to eliminate the -5% damage per tile between you and your target.

2) I understand that mod order affects the stats of the result when creating assemblies. How exactly?

3) When making an armor assembly which requires two of the same mod, am I correct in assuming the following: the order does not matter except that the duplicate mod must be added last.

4) At what stage in the calculations is the bonuses from son of a bitch applied? So basically I'm asking whether resistances, armor, damage falloff for shotguns, etc. affects the sob bonus.

Thanks in advance.

1) No, the only uniques that can be modded are the Railgun and BFG10k (both of which can only take one mod or basic assembly) and the Cybernetic Armour (which is fully moddable and can be made into any acceptable armour assembly.

2) This doesn't always happen. If you want to assemble a piercing blade on a chainsaw, for example, adding the power mod first will give you a piercing chainsaw (4d7). Adding the agility mod first will give you a piercing chainsaw (4d6) but I think with better accuracy.

3) Yes, this is because armour can only accept one mod of each type.

4) SoB (and SoG) is applied after your damage roll, so yes, armour and resistances and range does count against your added damage.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on April 07, 2012, 08:39
Also, how do I mod my player files to unlock certain challenges?
I'm assuming by 'challenges' you mean challenge modes, like Angel of Berserk and Angel of Marksmanship etc.
I have no idea how to mod player files, but the easiest way (in fact the only legitimate way) to get them is by increasing your skill rank, which involves gaining badges.
Check the wiki to find badges you'd like to try to earn/find easiest to get challenges quicker.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Skibbler on April 07, 2012, 10:38
I'm assuming by 'challenges' you mean challenge modes, like Angel of Berserk and Angel of Marksmanship etc.
I have no idea how to mod player files, but the easiest way (in fact the only legitimate way) to get them is by increasing your skill rank, which involves gaining badges.
Check the wiki to find badges you'd like to try to earn/find easiest to get challenges quicker.

I did plenty of unlocking a while ago but after a clean install of Windows I'm back at rank one, and I'd rather not spend a lot of time unlocking AO100 (the challenge I'm in the mood for.) Is there any place where I could download a .wad that lets me do so?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on April 07, 2012, 11:01
I did plenty of unlocking a while ago but after a clean install of Windows I'm back at rank one, and I'd rather not spend a lot of time unlocking AO100 (the challenge I'm in the mood for.) Is there any place where I could download a .wad that lets me do so?
I'm pretty sure someone else on the forum lost their player.wad, and requested someone else upload theirs. The post should still be here, not sure if the wad itself is. Check the previous pages of the DoomRL Discussion forum, you'll find it sooner or later.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Skibbler on April 07, 2012, 18:27
I looked through the last five pages of this forum, but couldn't find any thread with an uploaded player.wad. I also did a forum search, with no luck. Could someone who has unlocked Ao100 please share their player.wad?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on April 07, 2012, 18:55
Why don't your unlock A100 yourself?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Pricklyman on April 07, 2012, 19:26
Unlocking Ao100 isn't hard at all, just do all the easier badges. I unlocked Ao100 without even getting a credited win! :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Skibbler on April 08, 2012, 22:36
Does cybernano armor (PPON) give you the resistance bonuses from the power mods AND an additional +4 for completing the assembly? E.g. would red cybernano armor give you 4 base + 4 from power mods + 4 from assembly = 12 armor? Or, does it give a bonus for the first power mod, but not for the second mod that is used to complete the assembly? E.g. would red cybernano armor give you 4 base + 2 from the first power mod + 4 from assembly (which is completed with the application of the second power mod) = 10 armor? Or no bonus at all from the power mods themselves?

Also, are % resistances applied before or after armor in the damage calculation?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on April 08, 2012, 23:12
No, it's only +4 above vanilla armor. And, resistances are applied before straight reduction.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on April 10, 2012, 06:22
I have some questions about the Gambler's Shield - does it count the levers in special levels (Hell's Armory, City of Skulls, Dis), does it count only one pull of the lever (that is, is there any benefit to pulling the spawn enemies levers more than once?), does it count it as lever pulled if you try to use the medical station/armour depot while you have full health/durability and is it possible to get one instance of pulled lever if I run past the mastermind and pull the other lever present in the level after the walls have been lowered?

Getting a few extra medals is what stands between me and promotions, and I reckon that this is one of the easier ones that
I'm still missing. I'll be making note of each lever pulled when I'll try to earn it, so I'd like to know which of these cases are considered for the purpose of the medal.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on April 10, 2012, 06:59
I have some questions about the Gambler's Shield - does it count the levers in special levels (Hell's Armory, City of Skulls, Dis), does it count only one pull of the lever (that is, is there any benefit to pulling the spawn enemies levers more than once?), does it count it as lever pulled if you try to use the medical station/armour depot while you have full health/durability and is it possible to get one instance of pulled lever if I run past the mastermind and pull the other lever present in the level after the walls have been lowered?

Getting a few extra medals is what stands between me and promotions, and I reckon that this is one of the easier ones that
I'm still missing. I'll be making note of each lever pulled when I'll try to earn it, so I'd like to know which of these cases are considered for the purpose of the medal.

 - Each pull of the levers with charges will count as a pull only if a charge is used.
 - Medical Lever and Armor Lever do NOT count if pulled with full health/armor (since it doesn't use one of the lever's 1-3 charges that way).
 - Pulling the lever in Armory DOES count as a lever pull for Gambler's Shield.
Spoiler: Exploit! (click to show/hide)
- City of Skulls lever counts for lever pulls, but it disappears after being pulled.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on April 10, 2012, 07:03
Thanks! If a lot of the levers count for 1-3 pulls, getting this medal shouldn't be as difficult to pull off as I thought. I guess I'll just have to damage myself from time to time.

The exploit is tempting, but I only resort to such things in case the game manages to seriously piss me off (such as not giving me the medal after pulling 25 levers normally).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on April 10, 2012, 07:08
Take note that the medal condition is more than 25 lever pulls... so you need at least 26. :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on April 10, 2012, 14:54
Lever in Dis can be abused to get gambler's shield.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: commodorejohn on April 10, 2012, 20:07
Would someone explain the win criteria for Angel of Pacifism to me? This is twice now that I've gotten to the Cyberdemon, set the nuke next to him, and survived until it goes off, but I haven't got the badge for completing it...do I have to survive the nuke? Can he take more than one, and I should pick up some extras on the way?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on April 10, 2012, 22:55
Does it still say Cyberdemon?  It shouldn't.

You need to get to the Mastermind and set the Nuke off there.

There's an exit stair somewhere in Babel (which only appears on AoPc).  Use that to get by Cyberdemon.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Creepy on April 10, 2012, 23:51
Yeah, Cyberdemon used to be on level 25 as the endboss. This isn't true anymore, so blowing up the Big Cow with a nuke isn't going to win it. Gotta go deeper.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 16, 2012, 09:00
What's the standard attack time for melee? And does it depend on the weapon you're using? Wiki mentions nothing of this.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on April 16, 2012, 09:05
What's the standard attack time for melee? And does it depend on the weapon you're using? Wiki mentions nothing of this.
IIRC from in-game stats, all melee weapon and fists take 1.0s, and are subject to Finesse, tech mods, berserk etc. speed boosts.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on April 16, 2012, 10:27
IIRC from in-game stats, all melee weapon and fists take 1.0s, and are subject to Finesse, tech mods, berserk etc. speed boosts.
Mostly true: the Ripper assembly has a 0.5s attack time (and is the only melee weapon to have a non 1s attack time).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on April 17, 2012, 01:48
Mostly true: the Ripper assembly has a 0.5s attack time (and is the only melee weapon to have a non 1s attack time).
Ah, thanks for correction then. I never got to assemble Ripper anyway, and from the stats it seems quite awesome.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Shroomsy on April 18, 2012, 16:34
How is damage calculated when first taking Dualgunner? In terms of min/max, average damage and how many times the +1 from each rank of SoG is applied (once, or once for each pistol)?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on April 18, 2012, 18:37
All bonuses to damage from traits (SoB & SoG) apply to each pistol shot.

Actual overall damage would be based on the pistols used.  If you are simply wielding 2 regular unmodded pistols, your damage would effectively be (2d4+SoG+SoB) x 2 (assuming both shots hit, of course).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Shroomsy on April 19, 2012, 07:00
So it would come out to (2d(4+1+1))x2, 4-24, avg 12 damage? Assuming both shots hit and I have no other traits.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on April 19, 2012, 08:13
So it would come out to (2d(4+1+1))x2, 4-24, avg 12 damage? Assuming both shots hit and I have no other traits.
No, shark has the formula correct - the trait bonuses are applied to the result of the dice roll, not to the dice sides. SoG and SoB mean their respective levels, so with both of them maxed up to 5 it's (2d4+10)x2 = 24-36, avg. 30, assuming both shots hit.
Other traits are IIRC irrelevant anyway, except for MSs, which always deals maximum possible damage, but blocks SoB and dual-wielding.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 19, 2012, 12:39
The resistances listed under torso and feet I can figure out, but where does the 'internal' resistance come from, and what does it do?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on April 19, 2012, 20:35
There is only really 1 source of internal resistance, which applies to all damage taken regardless of source, which is berserk.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 19, 2012, 22:43
That's a bit redundant then, as it also adds 60% to torso and feet resistances. Wonder what MFA and MEn do in this respect.

Still: why not cross internal out then?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on April 19, 2012, 23:40
There are a very few things in DoomRL that actually do internal damage like getting damaged by teleports and the thermonuclear bomb.

Also, if all you can see is torso and feet, it may be less clear that some resistances are applying to both.  Although I don't think its that critical.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 20, 2012, 12:04
Also, if all you can see is torso and feet, it may be less clear that some resistances are applying to both.

I don't know about other features, but for Berserk, resistances are listed in each of the categories, thus making internal redundant. What I mean to say is that, if every bonus that gives you an internal resistance applies the same bonus to torso and feet, it's useless to list it separately.

...like getting damaged by teleports...

¿Say what?

...and the thermonuclear bomb.

As in 'getting damaged by the nuke and surviving it'? I thought it was either one or the other, depending on being invulnerable or not.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on April 20, 2012, 12:53
Quote
¿Say what?
Teleports.
Yeah, when you stand on the exit from teleport, enemy can kill you by moving on to teleport.
The easiest way to experience it is in Spider's Lair.Almost died there once this way.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on April 20, 2012, 13:12
Teleports.
Yeah, when you stand on the exit from teleport, enemy can kill you by moving on to teleport.
The easiest way to experience it is in Spider's Lair.Almost died there once this way.

...which sucks. Monsters can telefrag you but you can't telefrag them, while the opposite is true in Doom.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on April 20, 2012, 20:37
As in 'getting damaged by the nuke and surviving it'? I thought it was either one or the other, depending on being invulnerable or not.

Well, this was kind of a useless example.  Nuke technically does damage... but it's more than anything in the game could survive so the point is moot.

...which sucks. Monsters can telefrag you but you can't telefrag them, while the opposite is true in Doom.

The behavior is actually symmetrical between the player and enemies.  Standing in the way of an incoming teleport does 15 internal fire damage and redirects the teleport elsewhere.  (The teleporting player/enemy can also take damage if the destination is blocked by something like a barrel.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 20, 2012, 23:50
Monsters can telefrag you...

Now that you mention this: I think monsters can telefrag each other as well. I was recently going through some level hearing the sound of a nearby teleport, then the scream of a former and the "You hear the scream of a freed soul!" appeared. Suckers.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on April 21, 2012, 05:44
The behavior is actually symmetrical between the player and enemies.  Standing in the way of an incoming teleport does 15 internal fire damage and redirects the teleport elsewhere.  (The teleporting player/enemy can also take damage if the destination is blocked by something like a barrel.)

Oh, I didn't realize that. Recently I found a demon next to a teleporter with the destination to the tile it was standing on, so when I approached him from the other side, he couldn't help but to teleport endlessly. Obviously I decided to telefrag him, but I got teleported to a random location instead, so I thought the game just checks if the destination tile is occupied and redirects the teleport elsewhere. The damage I did to the demon wasn't enough to kill him, so I though nothing happened.

Still, I would prefer it if telefragging would instagib monsters as in doom and did the random redirect without any damage to the player in case a monster tries to telefrag the player. Maybe it could be exploited by players, but I believe that it's extremely hard/lucky to telefrag an enemy intentionally. Might be as issue in the Spider Lair, dunno.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Creaphis on April 22, 2012, 19:21
Right now I don't see any reason for "telefragging" in DoomRL whatsoever. Destination tiles aren't marked, so when the player gets damaged by standing on the wrong tile at the wrong time it's completely random and arbitrary. I recently lost an AoB game this way, and I was not impressed. It's also impossible to use telefragging against monsters without high risk because, even if you follow a monster through a teleport pad, you don't know where the redirect will put you. Dungeon features like teleporters and levers would be more interesting if they worked in predictable ways so that you could strategize around them and use them to your advantage.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on April 27, 2012, 04:38
Just wondering - would a point-blank rocket aimed at an almost dead mastermind count as a partial victory, if it killed both of you? Or any self-damaging weapon while we're at it?

Not that ist's very likely to happen, I'm just wondering.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on April 27, 2012, 06:08
most likely not, it'll be either her dead or you dead, whoever will get hit first. If you'd die, it'll be a YASD of a special flavor :D if SMM would die, it'll be a standard win.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Matt_S on April 27, 2012, 09:32
Just wondering - would a point-blank rocket aimed at an almost dead mastermind count as a partial victory, if it killed both of you? Or any self-damaging weapon while we're at it?

Not that ist's very likely to happen, I'm just wondering.

This must be tested!  AoMC seems like the easiest way to make this happen.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: eharper256 on April 28, 2012, 03:43
Just a couple quick questions about chainfire; since I was about to try start a few chainfiring characters:

>> Is it like a mode switch or do I have to press Shift-F every time to rev up the chaingun/plasmarifle? (actually, if the latter is the case, would CAPSLOCK work for combat engagements?)
>> Does Ammochain and Entrenchment ONLY work during the secondary fire? Or do they apply to the standard volleys?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on April 28, 2012, 03:49
Just a couple quick questions about chainfire; since I was about to try start a few chainfiring characters:

>> Is it like a mode switch or do I have to press Shift-F every time to rev up the chaingun/plasmarifle? (actually, if the latter is the case, would CAPSLOCK work for combat engagements?)
>> Does Ammochain and Entrenchment ONLY work during the secondary fire? Or do they apply to the standard volleys?
If you begin chainfiring and there's still an enemy visible, you'll still be chainfiring. This behaviour continues until you need to reload or all enemies in sight are dead.
Ammochain works always, on all rapid fire weapons. You don't need to chainfire for Ammochain, but Entrenchment will only provide its resistances when you're chainfiring.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: eharper256 on April 28, 2012, 04:29
If you begin chainfiring and there's still an enemy visible, you'll still be chainfiring. This behaviour continues until you need to reload or all enemies in sight are dead.
Ammochain works always, on all rapid fire weapons. You don't need to chainfire for Ammochain, but Entrenchment will only provide its resistances when you're chainfiring.
So, I press SHIFT-F once at the start of the fight, and then its okay to just press f and chainfire will continue to happen as long as enemies are around?

See, I tested on Hells playground and chainfire only ever fired 3 shots with a Chaingun, so I assume it must see enemies to start its rev up.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on April 30, 2012, 10:59
If there are enemies in your vision after a chain fire volley, the game will put you back into targeting mode.  At this point, you use 'f' or left click (not right click, that cancels) to continue to chain fire the chaingun.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: eharper256 on May 01, 2012, 12:04
Thanks Shark20061.

Also, I'm guessing the Tower Shield/Ballistic Shield is not actually an off-hand item by its placement in the wiki?

Seems a bit funny that you're wearing a shield, makes me want to shout "Ain't that cute, but its wrong!". :D
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on May 03, 2012, 12:49
What's the exact damage rule for the zerk trait to kick in? I find the wiki a bit confusing here.

I find the game confusing too, since I just got killed on an otherwise perfect attempt at Speedrunner Silver when Spidey spanked me (Scout with IRO1, pressed enter at the wrong moment unfortunately) from 73% to 17% in two hits tops, and I wasn't even drooling, let alone frothing. Pretty anticlimactic for an otherwise real smooth run.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on May 03, 2012, 21:46
To trigger berserk initial damage from one hit should be more than 10(to prevent abusing on AoHu) and at least 1/3 of your hp before all resistances and armor kicks in.And spidey's melee is 15+1d3 .So if you wouldn't take Iro, the threshold would be 17 damage.66% chance to trigger berserk.
Since you took Iro1, threshold is 20.Unreachable by melee attack.No berserk for you.
Yeah, Iro is bad for your health sometimes. :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on May 03, 2012, 22:56
Curse you swift enter!

2nd run wasn't better though. Ended up in Dis on 46% and no packs :S
Did both in under 20 minutes though, so there's room to spare. Let's see if I can make this work... well.. when I have time again.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on May 13, 2012, 03:28
The Piercing Blade assembly is useless: it uses 1xA and 1xP, while you achieve the same effect by applying 1xB. Why not give it a slight Accuracy edge as well, to account for the A-mod?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on May 13, 2012, 04:09
First of all it makes damage type piercing.That's the whole point.
Mostly useful against AoD which has 10 armor.Extremely effective when you're killing him with knife-throwing.
Also if assembled in PA order, then both sides and dices increase by 1.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on May 13, 2012, 08:47
First of all it makes damage type piercing.

Although that makes sense, I never saw it as more than a name. I also never noticed the damage type on this assembly before.

Mostly useful against AoD which has 10 armor.Extremely effective when you're killing him with knife-throwing.

And just how many piercing knives do you intend to bring? It sounds like an extremely effective tactic, except for the fact that you're going to have to get into melee range in order to retrieve your knife...

Also if assembled in PA order, then both sides and dices increase by 1.

And that's the part of assembling that I'm still not getting. Does this mean that if you assemble AP, you simply get an extra die but with increased accuracy?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on May 13, 2012, 09:16
And just how many piercing knives do you intend to bring? It sounds like an extremely effective tactic, except for the fact that you're going to have to get into melee range in order to retrieve your knife...
At least one.Also there's no need to get into melee range, you just need to lead AoD away from your knife, then circle back to it, and pick it up.
And that's the part of assembling that I'm still not getting. Does this mean that if you assemble AP, you simply get an extra die but with increased accuracy?
chansaw: +0 accurace 4d6.
piercing chainsaw that was assembled in A->P order: +0 4d7.
piercing chainsaw that was assembled in P->A order:+0 5d7
Afaik as now that's the only assembly where order matters it is a bug, so it's supposed to be +1 size only and that's it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on May 13, 2012, 12:04
that's the only assembly where order matters

Actually, according to the wiki the Environmental boots (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Enviromental_boots) have a build-order feature (which simply amounts to 'whatever you do, add T last'). Having read this and your answer leads me to believe that there might be more assemblies in which order matters.

On a sidenote, as I haven't checked the game yet, there are 2 'n's in Environmental...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on May 13, 2012, 12:22
I think in theory, the assemblies are supposed to have the same stats regardless of the order of the mods.  This was the intention circa 0.9.9.6.  In the previous release, that was not the case.

As for the Wiki, I'm not sure how accurate the data is, since it is completely community driven.  What is currently lacking is some kind of release-related information, so there could be a mix of both old and new data.

Any assemblies that are behaving differently due to the ordering of the mods are deemed as bugs and should be fixed in the repo, I think.

There are however some instances where the order does matter.  This has to do with how the mods and items interact.  For example, it is generally not possible to slap on more than 1 of each mod type for boots/armour, so things that require double adding of the same mod will have to come nearer the last few mods added, or if there're exotic mods like Nano or Onyx, those will have to go on before some of the other mods.

In short, the assembly system is still a little inconsistent at the moment.  Hopefully things will be completely resolved come the next release.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on May 14, 2012, 14:33
Actually, according to the wiki the Environmental boots (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Enviromental_boots) have a build-order feature (which simply amounts to 'whatever you do, add T last'). Having read this and your answer leads me to believe that there might be more assemblies in which order matters.

On a sidenote, as I haven't checked the game yet, there are 2 'n's in Environmental...
That comment is just as a note as to the current implementation of the assembly.  It is not meant to indicate it's an intended feature.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Matt_S on May 18, 2012, 01:13
I currently have a save game at Hell's Armory on HMP.  Considering that I am me, I'm doing a YAAM Conqueror run, yet I'm doing an Entrenchment build(MEn is my planned next trait).  Even though it's still a little far off, I'm coming up with a plan for Unholy Cathedral.  I have the mods to make a ballistic red armor if necessary and if I can get a darn you-know-what mod I'll be able to make a piercing chainsaw as well.  I have no levels in Eagle Eye yet but I'll probably get it after my master trait.  I have a hatred skull to help things out.  Let's assume I can keep my 5 or so large med-packs until then and I'm willing to lose them all in a drawn out fight.  Knife-cheesing is out of the question for all practical purposes (i.e. not fast enough and no knife at the moment).

If necessary I'll probably be able to get Berserker before UC, but I'd rather avoid that.  To get to the question part, does this seem like a solid plan?  What if I don't get a you-know-what mod for a piercing chainsaw, do I still have a good chance of winning?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on May 18, 2012, 03:00
yep... is it just me, or does throwing a knife count for ranged accuracy, so Brute is not checked against?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on May 21, 2012, 23:18
2 of those were killed by something unknown.
 And 3 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

Something unknown being JC? And what's with this suicide thing? I've committed about as many stupid suicides as I've won games, but I'm glad my mortems don't smugly blab about it...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on May 22, 2012, 00:03
Unknown happenes(or happened?) sometimes when you're hit by smth you don't see.Usually it's not unknown but it happened.
Suicide happens when you die on hazardous terrain.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on May 22, 2012, 00:37
Unknown means the game can't figure out what killed you.  Usually this is because the enemy that killed you is already dead.  For example, an enemy might blow up a barrel killing itself, then killing you after.  That would count as "something unknown."

Suicide means you died on your own turn.  Hazardous terrain does seem to be the most common cause, but this can also be the result of splash damage, barrels, etc.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tavana on May 22, 2012, 03:51
Pushing barrels into lava used to be my favorite form of suicide. Used to be...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on May 22, 2012, 04:22
Suicide happens when you die on hazardous terrain.

Sounds sensible enough, but no. I know of at least 2 times I got killed on lava (CC + HoC), and there's not a single suicide in my mortems...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on May 22, 2012, 04:44
Pushing barrels into lava used to be my favorite form of suicide. Used to be...

It could be again. It was restored in 0.9.9.6.  ;)

Sounds sensible enough, but no. I know of at least 2 times I got killed on lava (CC + HoC), and there's not a single suicide in my mortems...

I believe this is mistakenly reported as "killed by a soldier" in 0.9.9.6, but it should still count toward the running total displayed at the bottom.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on May 22, 2012, 05:11
I believe this is mistakenly reported as "killed by a soldier" in 0.9.9.6

Correct, which probably coincides with the reason why it doesn't register as a 'suicide'.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Kabrinski on May 23, 2012, 17:42
How the hell do you crack the vaults-I haven't been able to figure out how to get in!

[thelaptop: Shifted to Quick Questions thread because it is more appropriate than to use a single topic.]
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Xtremekiwi on May 23, 2012, 22:06
How the hell do you crack the vaults-I haven't been able to figure out how to get in!

[thelaptop: Shifted to Quick Questions thread because it is more appropriate than to use a single topic.]
To open the vaults, you need the Arena Master's Staff, which can only be gotten by doing Chained Court+ which can only be entered after doing Hell's Arena.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on May 23, 2012, 23:34
Although you should be able to do without, there's a key to be found earlier in the game...

[EDIT] Oh, I totally missed Kiwi's message there... so much for trying to be subtle :P
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sanctus on May 24, 2012, 00:08
or RL + a lot of Phase devices if you like
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Zecks on May 24, 2012, 07:35
To clarify, anything that destroys walls can get you in the side vaults, but you need to phase to the central one.

AM staff opens all of them when used in the vaults.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Kabrinski on May 26, 2012, 08:16
Yeah, but don't it destroy most of the crap inside of it?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on May 26, 2012, 08:50
Well, no, as you need first to lower the certain wall piece, and only then will the explosion be able to destroy the vault's contents.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Malin on June 04, 2012, 13:23
Hi,
first of all-thanks to everyone who has been involved in the making of this game-it's really amazing how turn-based Doom can exist,and still be fun to play.
That's also the first Roguelike game,where I was able to win(previously I was struggling through Nethack for roughly four years).DoomRL also has many small details,which make it more than just bland "kill'em all".

To the point:
I suceeded at nuking Spider Mastermind,(that was my 28 charaster),unlocked some of those veery interesting challeng-games,and decided to try Angel of Marksmanship(I simply love movies and games where protagonist is armed with dual-pistols-Max Payne,Matrix,Equilibrium,Hard Boiled and so on =)).I was afraid to run out of ammo,or that pistols will be to weak to rely on them constantly.Surprisingly for me,even standard pistols backed up by Gankata ability and others,which I acqured to get it,were a formidable weapon,and I had little problems shooting everything that was moving.More than that-very few enemies could even retaliate before diying under rain of steel.But then I reached Cyberdemon,and died in,like,five seconds...

is it even possible to kill him,using standart pistols(enchanced to have bigger clip-size),duelist armor,and a couple of large medpacks?
My biggest mistake was that I didn't attend to any special levels,except of Hell's Armoury.I was too uncofident,and in the end my poor equipment was a fatal factor.But still-I was able to kill Cyberdemon previously,going all-out,using BFG,enchanced shotgun,rocketlauncher, and two red armours-with all of that my charaster was on the verge of death,while at last killed that sob.And how do I supposed to handle it with pistols alone?

I'm sorry for my horrible english,hope that I didn't made too much mistakes.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on June 04, 2012, 13:30
I found it actually quite easy on Gun Kata, once you get the timing right: you'll have to get the Dodgemaster skill for GK, which allows you to automatically dodge the first shot fired at you immediately after you move. As such, if you time it right, you fire a couple of shots (I think 4), sidestep and watch the missile fly away, take your remaining shots and reload, and sidestep again. Repeat.

It'll take you a few tries to get the timing right, but when you do it works like a charm. Also, remember that you can hear when Cybie reloads, which comes in handy as well.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on June 04, 2012, 14:05
Take cover -- Gun Kata isn't designed for open field combat.  Move to a safe place to reload -- reload one gun first, then use the dual-reload when it is safe.

Always move perpendicular to the direction of closest movement to Cybie and you ought to be fine.  =)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on June 04, 2012, 14:08
Gun Kata isn't designed for open field combat.

It isn't? Good thing I named myself Lucky...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on June 04, 2012, 14:13
Under a horribly broken DM, it was since you could dodge all non hit-scan projectiles.  MGK is great if you have to take on a swarm of weak-ish things, since the auto-reload per kill + speed in movement are your friends.  But when you are taking on a pack of bigger things, the dodging + speed will help you get cover faster than just dancing all over the battlefield and killing 'em faster.  It's an awesome duelling master trait though, since you have great mobility to assist you.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on June 04, 2012, 14:25
You're right about that, of course, but in the case being discussed (single opponent who fires single shots), running for cover is pointless. I'd say more dangerous even, due to the rockets' blast radius. Personally, I'd keep as far away from cover as I could get in this particular case, seeing as you're probably also going to need room to back up once Cybie decides he'll have a better chance when he gets closer...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on June 07, 2012, 13:36
Is pistol-whipping still disallowed on strongman badges etc., or has that already been fixed? I think I read that it is fixed, but I'd hate to be wrong about it.

Edit: It's bad enough that when I get to hell on my strongman runs, I always forget to put longinus away =(
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tehtmi on June 07, 2012, 20:27
Is pistol-whipping still disallowed on strongman badges etc., or has that already been fixed? I think I read that it is fixed, but I'd hate to be wrong about it.

If you actually kill an enemy with your fists, it shouldn't matter what weapon you have equipped, the kill is supposed to count as fists.  However, if an enemy dies that you didn't kill directly (e.g. self-death, friendly-death, lava), the kill will count as your currently equipped weapon.  So, running around with a weapon equipped is not advisable when going for Strongman badges.  Without digging into the code again, I'm not quite 100% sure though.

Also, there might be a bug with calculating which weapon was used to kill an enemy when Juggler is equipped in the current version.  I don't remember if that was fixed before or after release.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on June 08, 2012, 05:26
OK, thanks. I won't be getting juggler, so that is no an issue with me. I tend to clear the entrance only to realize I didn't put my starting pistol away, though, so I wanted to know if I should continue with that run.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Xtremekiwi on July 01, 2012, 14:21
Quick question: At what point does it become more practical to kill, say, hell knights and barons of hell with a pistol over a shotgun when you're going for a pistol build? Because I want to try and get a Sharpshooter build going for a UV Ao100 run. Or maybe I should focus on a Shottyhead build...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: IronBeer on July 01, 2012, 17:06
Quick question: At what point does it become more practical to kill, say, hell knights and barons of hell with a pistol over a shotgun when you're going for a pistol build? Because I want to try and get a Sharpshooter build going for a UV Ao100 run. Or maybe I should focus on a Shottyhead build...
Quick answer, I'd say at the minimum once you have DG. For a single-gun build.... probably around when you get SoG3. (DG≈SoG3 in DPS). That's just a quick-'n-dirty answer, though; I'm sure somebody around here can come up with a MUCH more detailed (and accurate) answer in no time.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on July 01, 2012, 22:53
When you feel comfortable to do so.You can kill HK without losses with SoG3 and EEx, but there's no point in trying to kill a baron with a basic pistol.It's way too bothersome.Personally i don't know any good way to do it right (i wish i knew because that would make 3rd round of HA much easier).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: 2DeviationsOut on July 05, 2012, 10:31
Once you cross the point where you can kill them more efficiently with a pistol than a shotgun, that's when you swap. Personally, I've killed them with just a pistol and no pistol traits, but then it's probably more practical to just corner-kite them with a shotgun or pistol, whatever's to your taste.

In my standard progression path, I ditch my shotgun the moment I set up into my main build. For example, in a Ammochain game I stop using my shotgun the moment I get to a chaingun. I'll keep it around as a backup, with one set of shells, until I get my first plasgun. In a Pistol game I ditch my shotgun the moment I get SoG2, which is pretty quick considering that I play on N! almost exclusively.

If you're not completely comfortable with a pistol though, I'd keep your shotty around to deal with high-threat enemies like Pain Elementals. In a Ao100 Pistols game, your main threats are going to be Revs and Pain/Agony Elementals, and if you get a Cyberdemon level it's going to be brutal. Besides boss enemies and revs/pains/agonies, you can trash anything else the game throws at you. Once you have your full pistol build rolling, your time-to-kill should be low enough that you can take out anything shy of a HK in less than .3 sec, and nothing except for revs and pain elementals should take longer than .7 sec, excluding N! enemies of course.


   
         
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Xtremekiwi on July 05, 2012, 15:14
Thanks for all of the answers. So it's basically whenever I feel confortable that I can kill faster, but in general it would be around SoG2/SoG3. Thank you for all of the advice. I'll have to experiment a little bit (UV, I am not ready not N!) to find the sweet spot.

And about the Cyberdemon level? I find that if you have a 3d6 pistol (Trigun, P3-modded Combat Pistol), you can generally kill a Cyberdemon in ~15 bullets. So ~8-10 Cyberdemons, get ready to dance rockets pretty much.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Reef Blastbody on August 08, 2012, 13:57
Quick (and stupid) question :

What are the differences between reloads? I'm reading the wiki, and it says (as far as I'm understanding it) there's basically Reloading (aka Normal Reload), Single Reload, and Full Reload.

To try and explain what I'm asking, the wiki says that a Full Reload "...will reload the weapon's entire magazine. The amount of time taken is 0.2s plus the time it would take to normally reload the amount of missing ammo. For the combat shotgun, the weapon will also be pumped."

Isn't this what regular reloading does anyways (sans the pumping)?

And for Single Reload "...Single reload will reload only a single ammo into the weapon's magazine. This time taken is the same as a normal reload."

Why would you only reload one ammo if it takes the same amount time to do a normal reload?

Unless I'm misunderstanding the line "Some weapons have alternate reload modes" entirely, and it just means that weapons reload differently than one another, but the text seems to imply that some weapons have alternative reload options like how they have alternative modes of fire and you can choose between them.

Lastly, I see "moving reload" mentioned a lot; is this just a result of Shottyman or is there another means of reloading while moving at the same time?

Thanks.



Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on August 08, 2012, 14:05
the wiki says that a Full Reload "...will reload the weapon's entire magazine. The amount of time taken is 0.2s plus the time it would take to normally reload the amount of missing ammo. For the combat shotgun, the weapon will also be pumped." Isn't this what regular reloading does anyways (sans the pumping)?

And for Single Reload "...Single reload will reload only a single ammo into the weapon's magazine. This time taken is the same as a normal reload." Why would you only reload one ammo if it takes the same amount time to do a normal reload?
Full reload is identical to continuously reloading the weapon until it's full. (IIRC the extra 0.2s is only included if you need to pump, as one would expect.) It's there for the convenience of easy reloading when you know there isn't going to be something attacking you in between rounds.

The single reload issue is actually a bug. The wiki states the current functionality in order to deter people from using it.

Lastly, I see "moving reload" mentioned a lot; is this just a result of Shottyman or is there another means of reloading while moving at the same time?
Moving reload (or move-reload) is exclusive to Shottyman, at least in the sense of literal reloads: some equipped or prepared weapons will regenerate their ammo as long as you aren't shooting, which technically allows for the weapon to reload while you're moving, but is typically not the same context for which move-reload is used.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Reef Blastbody on August 08, 2012, 14:17
That was fast!

So do some weapons actually have multiple reload choices? I know that single reload is bugged right now, but what is it normally supposed to do, let you reload one round at a greatly reduced speed than normal reloading?

Also, if a weapon does have multiple reload modes, do you switch them the same as firing (ie r vs shift+r)?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Game Hunter on August 08, 2012, 14:45
So do some weapons actually have multiple reload choices?
Combat shotguns and their derivatives (assault shotgun, tactical shotgun, etc) have a "full reload". Double shotguns (and maybe their dervatives such as super shotgun and focused double shotgun) have a "single reload". Alternate reloads are accessed with the alt reload keybinding, default "R" (in contrast to the default reload "r"), so you're correct on that matter.

I know that single reload is bugged right now, but what is it normally supposed to do, let you reload one round at a greatly reduced speed than normal reloading?
Single reload will allow you to reload half of a double shotgun at half the firing time. By itself this sounds a little silly (about as good as the difference between normal and full reload on a combat shotgun, which is only subtly important), but double shotguns also have a "single fire" alternate, allowing them to shoot only one shell at a time. This means you could very well use the double shotdown to attack two separate targets and reload as necessary. Single reload might be a tiny bit more than half to deter a complete need to always use it ("reload spam syndrome"), but it should make the double shotgun type considerably more useful as a whole.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Motorheadbanger on August 08, 2012, 15:55
Single reload will allow you to reload half of a double shotgun at half the firing time.

At half the reloading time, I suppose?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on August 09, 2012, 02:41
In any case, full reload for shotguns (and missile launcher, and perhaps some other weapons) and dual reload for pistols (if you have dualgunner) should NOT be used under any circumstances* since reloading one unit of ammo at a time allows you to react to any monster that wonders by. If you do a full reload, there's often a chance you'll end up dead before it is done. You could use full reloads on a cleared level without danger, but it's really not a good idea to get into the habit at all...

*The length of invulnerability/zerk etc. is measured in actions, not time, and reloading a combat shotgun takes 6 actions (including pumping) while full reload only one, so that is AFAIK the only situation# in which it is advantageous to use the full reload.

#This reminds me that I ought to read House of Leaves again...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on August 09, 2012, 04:18
after earning a pitiful death via dual reload, empasizing this :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on August 09, 2012, 09:47
Apparently the most effective way to make use of Dual Reload for pistols is to do a normal reload and then a dual reload to load the second weapon.  That way, if you see some nasty coming to you, you can still do something about it instead of eating the damage.

Also, reloading when a nasty is in view is generally a Bad Idea, especially if said weapon takes "forever" (>0.5s) to reload.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Reef Blastbody on August 09, 2012, 09:50
*The length of invulnerability/zerk etc. is measured in actions, not time, and reloading a combat shotgun takes 6 actions (including pumping) while full reload only one, so that is AFAIK the only situation# in which it is advantageous to use the full reload.

#This reminds me that I ought to read House of Leaves again...

Okay, I think I understand now.

Combat shotgun, for instance. 5 shots, 1 pump. If totally empty, and you hit Full Reload, (which is "...The amount of time taken is 0.2s plus the time it would take to normally reload the amount of missing ammo.", I just now realized this means PER SHELL), should take 5.2s, but only counts as one action. During that 5.2s, all manners of beasties could crawl up and bash your brains in. But, as you mentioned, if you were Invul, this would be better because you only lose 1 duration of Invul as opposed to 6 (for a reloading 5 times and pumping 1).

However, still with Combat shotgun, if something is rushing you down, and you were totally empty, you could just reload 1 shell (1s), and pump (0.2) to get ready, but this would cost you 2 durations of Invul. Or, as would likely be the case, you're not invul and you really need to shoot things ASAP.

Is that about right? I had no idea actions and time were counted separately until now.

#Go back, reread House of Leaves, replace all instances of Minotaur with Cyberdermon.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on August 09, 2012, 10:03
Quote
Or, as would likely be the case, you're not invul and you really need to shoot things ASAP.
Strange example.
If you're out of shells in your CS and it's not pumped, you're not invulnerable and you need to shoot ASAP, then your only choice without Shottyman is to pump (0.2s) and reload 1 shell (1.0s without modifiers) = 1.2s in two actions before first shot.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Reef Blastbody on August 09, 2012, 10:12
Speaking of Shottyman, regardless of the time it takes, does the Move-reload count as one action or two for the purposes of counting duration on something like Berserk/Invul?


Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on August 09, 2012, 10:29
One action.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on August 09, 2012, 11:16
Okay, I think I understand now.

Combat shotgun, for instance. 5 shots, 1 pump. If totally empty, and you hit Full Reload, (which is "...The amount of time taken is 0.2s plus the time it would take to normally reload the amount of missing ammo.", I just now realized this means PER SHELL), should take 5.2s, but only counts as one action. During that 5.2s, all manners of beasties could crawl up and bash your brains in. But, as you mentioned, if you were Invul, this would be better because you only lose 1 duration of Invul as opposed to 6 (for a reloading 5 times and pumping 1).

However, still with Combat shotgun, if something is rushing you down, and you were totally empty, you could just reload 1 shell (1s), and pump (0.2) to get ready, but this would cost you 2 durations of Invul. Or, as would likely be the case, you're not invul and you really need to shoot things ASAP.

Is that about right? I had no idea actions and time were counted separately until now.

I view it like this:

1) Full/double reloads are worthless and shouldn't be used. Don't ever get used to it. Newbie players should remember that.
2) When invulnerable, ignore the first rule. This is an advanced technique - something you should keep in mind, but no biggie if you forget.

thelaptop noted that dual reload can but used on dualgunner builds for conveniece - use standard reload first and then dual reload becomes esentially "reload pistol in off hand". Fair enough - that's another exception. I don't do that myself, but mainly since I love the sound when switching weapons. Also, reloading, switching, reloading somehow seems more badass to me =)

(note that with dualgunner switching pistols is a free action)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: SSupras on November 27, 2012, 05:36
I cannot use big boxes of ammo (shells and 10mm). When I threw away all small boxes and left only with the big ones the game told me that I cannot reload, because I'm out of ammo. I tried with several weapon types (shotguns: normal, combat, assault and with chaingun).

I played as marine and had these ammo boxes in inventory.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on November 27, 2012, 06:28
To use the big ammo boxes, you need to put them into your prepared weapon slot (keep your weapon of choice equipped and then equip the ammo box as you would a weapon - it will go straight to the prepared slot)
Once you do that, when reloading, ammo will come from the prepared box and the reload will take less time (not sure how much exactly... 10% of original?)

Another option is to unload the ammo box as you would unload a weapon in your inventory (U). The benefit of faster reload is lost this way, but you get the ammo and you can use it normally.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on November 27, 2012, 06:40
The reload time is 20% of the original reload time, IIRC.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: SSupras on November 28, 2012, 00:33
Thank's a lot and sorry for my lame question :D. I'll try it as soon as I'll find the big box.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on November 28, 2012, 01:03
The Necroarmor drains health to repair durability, but if it is modded with an onyx mod, does that override the health drain to repair itself?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on November 28, 2012, 03:24
Necroarmor is a uniquie, so you cannot mod it, but if you could, onyx mod would stop it from being ever damaged, so it would never drain your health.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on November 28, 2012, 03:27
No problem. It takes a while to get to know all the stuff in the game. Feel free to ask anything in the small questions thread on the discussion forum.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: emulord on November 28, 2012, 07:52
Speaking of which, when is a good time to use the necroarmor? It ruined a game the first time I found it, and I havnt put in on since.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on November 28, 2012, 08:29
I love it in combination with Vampyre. Pain elementals suddenly mean not only full health but 100% armour as well =P

I never felt the loss of life to be too painful, though. The necroarmor helped me immensly in this run: http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,5984.0.html (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,5984.0.html). I was focusing on passive defense (high armour) there, so that might have been a factor.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on December 11, 2012, 12:14
Is there a way to focus the camera back on the character? Sometimes my mouse pans the view away from where my character is standing and it's sometimes more of a hassle to slowly force the view back to where my character is standing.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Napsterbater on December 11, 2012, 12:57
Quote
Speaking of which, when is a good time to use the necroarmor? It ruined a game the first time I found it, and I havnt put in on since.
Necroarmor is a great general-purpose armor, I'd easily pick it over red, even P-modded red which has the same protection and fire resistance to boot. Reason is two-fold. First, generally speaking, armor shards are much rarer than health pickups, and with Necroarmor each health pickup effectively acts as an armor shard. Second is the speed boost, there are very few body armors in the game that boost speed, and speed is the most powerful stat in the game when maxed out.

You do have to keep a closer eye on your health when you have it on, and be quicker to use medkits or take the armor off if you run out, but the benefits are worth it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: 2DeviationsOut on December 15, 2012, 15:18
I'll use it just for the speed boost. I really don't care about the health drain, since I don't get hit regularly.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Rajhin on December 27, 2012, 09:59
How should I do Phobos Base Entry for Destroyer Diamond (damageless AoMC)? I always get hit few times by formers.
It was much easier when player started in the corner of the map.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on December 27, 2012, 10:08
To get the badge, you need to finish with untouchable cross, which is awarded for taking 50 damage and less, so you can take some damage. A bit of warning - I have a feeling this badge is bugged in the current version.

In any case, it is possible to do the entry without taking a scratch, but it takes a bit of luck. Maybe someone else will have some tips?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on December 27, 2012, 10:30
in some entries, you can abuse trees and try to run the first few enemies out of ammo, but this strategy is not guaranteed to survive later versions.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Rajhin on December 27, 2012, 10:34
To get the badge, you need to finish with untouchable cross, which is awarded for taking 50 damage and less, so you can take some damage. A bit of warning - I have a feeling this badge is bugged in the current version.
In any case, it is possible to do the entry without taking a scratch, but it takes a bit of luck. Maybe someone else will have some tips?
Too much random for me. I played lot of AoHu recently (for Everyman Diamond) and found that game becomes very easy on the latter levels when you get your hyperblaster and 300+% speed, but I don't know what to do to avoid damage on the first levels, especially without Int2 and corners to giftdrop.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on December 27, 2012, 10:39
In any case, it is possible to do the entry without taking a scratch, but it takes a bit of luck. Maybe someone else will have some tips?
One tip, perhaps: Try taking cover behind a tree against former humans. They will happily shoot the tree, and will run out of ammo after firing 30 rounds.
It does take quite some luck to make it unscathed through several of them in succession, and nearly impossible against two or more at once, doubly so if they come from different sides. And it does not help at all against seargants, shrapnel damage goes right through the trees.
But it's better than nothing.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on December 28, 2012, 01:15
^ I couldn't have put it better, ZicherCZ.  :)

This was a problem that plagued me when I was going for Destroyer Diamond.  (Before I realized that there's a bug that makes it impossible to get, even if you fulfill the conditions)  I must've restarted the game about a hundred times; level 1 was definitely the biggest hurdle to success.  Once you've eliminated everyone outside the structure, the rest is a relatively simple case of cornershooting, preferably with the Shotgun, but those guys on the outside at the beginning can come from any direction, and frequently multiple directions, and those trees really don't offer the best cover.  (Though they're better than nothing; I've used the same trick of running Former Humans out of ammo many times)  ;)

Considering all this, I really don't get how 2Dev can claim to be able to consistently play damageless games.  :|
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Rajhin on December 28, 2012, 03:48
I tried few more times and i think i have found some kind of answer.
I leave a gift and depart to the edge of sight thus forcing formers to make their turn first. With their 90% speed I can shoot them two times (if there only one of them at the time) and when sergeant is lured I can take his shotgun and make some radarshooting.
there's a bug that makes it impossible to get, even if you fulfill the conditions
Bad news for me.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Q2ZOv on December 28, 2012, 10:06
Made some attempts and recorded them. In fact I didn't feel like it is really that hard to finish Phobos entry damageless. Yes sometimes bad luck just pursues you and you fail in several attempts in a row and also after some time you get tired and probability of winning lowers. But when you are concentrated it is not that hard.

In record I had ~50% of successful attempts. Main strategies are: running(for greater dodge chance), shooting in the door direction when hear that it is opened, radarshooting even with pistol in hands, outrunning formers, giftdropping in some special places. Didn't use the method described by Rajhin but I think it is good and useful.  Bad thing is that I was always a scout. Also my wait count was set to really big number because I played a bit of N! angel of patience mod before making that attempts. So with reasonable wait count it should take a bit more time.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: 2DeviationsOut on December 28, 2012, 23:17
As far as the Entry goes, I use trees to make enemies waste their ammo, and by firing at them from outside LOS with Aimed Shots. Basically, most of my crazy stuff hinges on the fact that enemies will always move predictably towards you once you hit them. Once you've tagged an enemy, they're effectively dead.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on December 28, 2012, 23:50
Basically, most of my crazy stuff hinges on the fact that enemies will always move predictably towards you once you hit them. Once you've tagged an enemy, they're effectively dead.
So the correct answer is to make the AI realise that it is being played for chumps and let it rethink its strategy.

I like how this is going.

/me grins evilly
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: MaiZure on December 29, 2012, 03:05
So the correct answer is to make the AI realise that it is being played for chumps and let it rethink its strategy.

I like how this is going.

/me grins evilly

Maybe this can translate realizing the direction of incoming fire and seeking the closest appropriate cover and/or returning fire...and then our game just got harder! Nope, I prefer the current model where only 1 player in 1000 can beat all of last verison's challenges! *nod to TwoDev*
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: rchandra on December 30, 2012, 07:14
Does using a nuke on Dis 8 prevent the Untouchable series of badges?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on February 05, 2013, 23:57
Had a bit of a silly thought and then turned it into a rather silly question.

Does health decay count as "taking damage" as far as Untouchable Badge/Medal/Cross go?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on February 06, 2013, 01:11
Had a bit of a silly thought and then turned it into a rather silly question.

Does health decay count as "taking damage" as far as Untouchable Badge/Medal/Cross go?
Nope, as well as it doesn't count towards damageless medals (Cyberdemon's Head etc.).
If you encounter such a behavior, it's a bug. Report it then, please.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ultimate26 on February 09, 2013, 22:02
For Marine builds

Ironman gives 10 points of extra health

How much does one point of badass give? if I have 150% health then does that give me more than 10 points?

Is it worth skipping straight to badass without taking any ironman?

thanks
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on February 10, 2013, 00:12
For Marine builds
Ironman gives 10 points of extra health

How much does one point of badass give? if I have 150% health then does that give me more than 10 points?

Is it worth skipping straight to badass without taking any ironman?

thanks
Badass is, IMHO, always a good trait to have, especially for later game, when Supercharge globes start to become way more common. It effectively raises your maxHP by 50% per level, and especially with Ironman makes a great combination.

If you are a Marine with no Ironman, then your health does _not_ drop automatically at less or equal to 60HP as a normal maximum, 90HP with Bad1 and 120HP with Bad2. 60HP is still your natural maximum (medpacks will not heal you over this value, bar Survivalist) and 120HP is your "supercharge" maximum - nothing will get you over this.

The numbers are even nicer with levels in Ironman. With Iro1, the values described above change to 70/105/140, then 80/120/160 with Iro2, up to 110/165/220 with Iro5. Still talking Marines here - Scouts and Techs have these values lower by 10/15/20HP.

Compared to other talents and Marine builds, Bad1 is a requirement for Vampyre and Army of the Dead (and maybe Survivalist? Can't recall now) master traits - it's really likely that you are going to take Bad1 at level 4, after Brute2 and Berserker, or Rel2 and Shottyman respectively. The second level can usually wait until after you get the master trait, but especially on harder difficulties and longer games (and thereby more levels for you) you"ll want to pick it somewhere along the way.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: deathknight1728 on February 16, 2013, 08:24
Is melee possible in this game? Whenever I play an rpg I always like to make a melee char and use finesse and skill to take enemies down. Id like to do that in this game as there are traits for it but I am not sure.

Has anyone used melee effectively?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Equality on February 16, 2013, 09:15
Is melee possible in this game? Whenever I play an rpg I always like to make a melee char and use finesse and skill to take enemies down. Id like to do that in this game as there are traits for it but I am not sure.

Has anyone used melee effectively?
Is it a joke? DoomRL more favorite to melee build then for shooting. Angel of Berserk - one of first couple of challenges possible (you can't use anything but melee weapon). A lot of medals and badges devoted to melee chars - use only melee weapon, use only knifes & firsts, kill everything with bare hands and so on. One 'special' level is only for melee (you can't shoot there). If you are read carefully postmortem forum you can find that on Nightmare! more successful wins as a true berserk then as gun man. sorry for my ugly English )
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on February 16, 2013, 17:45
Is melee possible in this game? Whenever I play an rpg I always like to make a melee char and use finesse and skill to take enemies down. Id like to do that in this game as there are traits for it but I am not sure.

Has anyone used melee effectively?
Surely it is possible.  However while melee is a viable and fun way to build your character DoomRL is mostly about shooting. I suggest you to first learn the game a bit and only after that pursue melee path. In my opinion melee in DoomRL mostly is about knowing tricks of enemy AI, level design and so on.
Oh, and while there are some cases where melee builds are superior, they are not many. Most of the time ranged combat is preferred.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tylor on February 16, 2013, 18:08
Melee is quite possible in normal play, because you have  guaranteed chainsaw and LS/AS/DS on special levels, but very problematic in Ao100, because there is next to zero melee weapons found. Except plain combat knives, of cause.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tylor on February 17, 2013, 04:51
Question 1: is armor damage calculated before or after resistances applied? For example, if I have 95% fire resistance and hit for 20 fire damage, will armor be damaged as it is 20 damage, or 1?

Question 2: is dodge chance from HR and tactical boots/armor working for all shots in burst of commandos etc?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: IronBeer on February 17, 2013, 11:05
Question 1: is armor damage calculated before or after resistances applied? For example, if I have 95% fire resistance and hit for 20 fire damage, will armor be damaged as it is 20 damage, or 1?

Question 2: is dodge chance from HR and tactical boots/armor working for all shots in burst of commandos etc?
Good questions.

1.) I don't have an empirical backup to my answer, but personal experience suggests that resistances are applied first.

2.) Dodge chances are calculated individually for each shot in a burst. This also means that Dodgemaster is not terribly helpful against Arachnotrons and Commandos, since the trait only procs against the first shot of a barrage.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on February 17, 2013, 16:10
From what I know, and I may be off here:
Resists are applied _before_ armor. You still take at least one HP damage no matter what, bar Survavilist master trait.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: deathknight1728 on March 06, 2013, 05:42
Im starting to wonder if melee works even at all in the later levels. Im having trouble with which perks/traits to pick. I want to either go with a marine or scout and then go all out. I have a marine that was lvl 5 and he was doing alright until the demon with spider legs came at me (forget the name). I was reading up on the wiki and a few options were present that I can take advantage of/need explaining of.

1-Finesse, says that it allows you to attack faster yet I don't think you can get more than 1 attack per round so it might be useless.

2-From what it looks like, Tough as nails is better than ironman when you have armor as when you don't it does nothing. Ironman gives 10 health which counts all the time, but tan doubles armor effects. This whole thing is confusing.

3-Hellrunner might be good for gun builds but since you can't dodge melee attacks with it, it might be next to useless.

If anyone can explain these 3 things to me, I'd really like to know as Ive read the wiki and all these tactics Im learning about that I didn't know before. Thanks.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on March 06, 2013, 06:19
1.There's no such thing as round in DoomRL. Read page about Time on wiki.
2.Each level of TaN adds 1 armor. 1 armor = -1 dmg taken. Simple as that. Damage taken can not be reduced lower than 1.
3.Wrong. It's very useful as before you melee someone you need to get into melee range first. HR helps you do that.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on March 06, 2013, 06:27
Im starting to wonder if melee works even at all in the later levels. Im having trouble with which perks/traits to pick. I want to either go with a marine or scout and then go all out. I have a marine that was lvl 5 and he was doing alright until the demon with spider legs came at me (forget the name). I was reading up on the wiki and a few options were present that I can take advantage of/need explaining of.

1-Finesse, says that it allows you to attack faster yet I don't think you can get more than 1 attack per round so it might be useless.

2-From what it looks like, Tough as nails is better than ironman when you have armor as when you don't it does nothing. Ironman gives 10 health which counts all the time, but tan doubles armor effects. This whole thing is confusing.

3-Hellrunner might be good for gun builds but since you can't dodge melee attacks with it, it might be next to useless.

If anyone can explain these 3 things to me, I'd really like to know as Ive read the wiki and all these tactics Im learning about that I didn't know before. Thanks.

OK, here goes:
1) Finesse shortens the time between attacks by 20% per level. That means that instead of a 1.0s basic melee attack you get to 0.6s with Fin2, efectively making your attacks nearly twice as fast. That means you can attack multiple times before the enemy can retaliate. It does matter mostly for tougher enemies, since with Fin they can get less chances to attack you before they fall.
2) You have it a bit wrong. TaN works as a "natural" 1 point of armor per level, even if you wear nothing else. It's mostly useful against larger volleys of weaker attacks (like the captain's chaingun or arach's plasma burst), and of course is very helpful if you have some armor with resists (these are applied first). Ironman gives a flat 10 maxHP boost per level. Note that Iro makes it harder for berserk to kick in after a particularly damaging attack, since the damage needed is based on maxHP.
3) Hellrunner's dodging is indeed useless in melee, however it allows you to close to melee range way quicker, allowing the enemies less attacks before you get there. Not as useful as for gun builds, but still I wouldn't dare to call this trait useless, especially with more levels of HR and some movespeed-improving armor or boots.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on March 06, 2013, 06:57
Fin reduces attack time by 15% not by 20%.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: felttippen on March 06, 2013, 13:55
Hi everyone!

Haven´t played DoomRL for a long time and wanted to start again....
So here is my question: What is the easiest wayto play with the old ascii graphical style and a gamepad?
Thanks in advance, really want to reexperience this game!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tylor on March 06, 2013, 17:47
Hi everyone!

Haven´t played DoomRL for a long time and wanted to start again....
So here is my question: What is the easiest wayto play with the old ascii graphical style and a gamepad?
Thanks in advance, really want to reexperience this game!
,5ffr
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on March 07, 2013, 04:00
For console, there's a command line option.
doomrl -console, on Windows (a batch is available in the game's folder). I guess it's the same for Linux
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tylor on March 07, 2013, 05:18
For console, there's a command line option.
doomrl -console, on Windows (a batch is available in the game's folder). I guess it's the same for Linux
Oh, I didn't understood question:)
I use doomrl_console.bat for this. Graphic version is cute, but too slow (because movement is animated) and too uninformative (because it scrolls even on 1920x1080)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on March 07, 2013, 06:35
Quote
and too uninformative
You can reduce the tiles size, by setting FullscreenTileMult (or WindowedTileMult) to 1.
Default of -1 doubles tiles size on my screen (1680*1050), but with normal sized tiles, I see all the height of the level, and enough width.

I still have to scroll a little to see left/right edges of the level, indeed, but I can't imagine using ascii just to have full level on the screen.

Btw, an option to reduce tile's size (or better, a possibility to use custom graphics sets) would be welcome.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on March 08, 2013, 16:17
Just got imploded by an arachnotron in the spider's lair :(

Does anyone know where I could find the number of damages you take when an enemy teleports on you ?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on March 08, 2013, 17:52
Just got imploded by an arachnotron in the spider's lair :(

Does anyone know where I could find the number of damages you take when an enemy teleports on you ?
Thomas' post here (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,1925.msg15552.html#msg15552) says that an enemy teleporting onto you will deal 10 damage and you teleporting onto an enemy will instantly kill them. The post was from 2009 so it's possible the damages were changed since then.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: GinDiamond on March 11, 2013, 13:27
Quick question:

When (if ever) will DoomRL 0.9.9.7 be released? It was due before New Years Day, 2013!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on March 11, 2013, 14:59
It will never be released.  0.9.9.6 is the last version.  ;-)

On a more serious note, Beta 4 is in progress at the moment.  The release is always the same as before: When It's Done.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on March 11, 2013, 17:37
Quote
The release is always the same as before: When It's Done

I have no doubts that there is always things to improve and bugs to correct, but has the possibility to make releases more frequent (or public bêta, or anything of that kind) been considered ?
Yearly releases are probably more polished than the average, but I really think it delays feedbacks (and some fixes, like fireangel) too much :/

I don't follow the other forge's projects, and discovered doomRL only recently, but beeing myself way too much perfectionnist, I learnt how bad it can be to always delay things... and wondered if there is any good reason to have so much delays.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on March 11, 2013, 20:35
No, each release is effectively a public beta for DoomRL 1.0 -- if you want to test things more frequently, the rule of thumb around here is to be a supporter and get access that way.  Just because the beta is closed doesn't mean that there's no one testing things.

Also, even though we have many contributing programmers here and there, bear in mind that Chaosforge is [still] mostly one person, namely Kornel, and that he (like all of us really) does this as his hobby.  When life catches up, that takes a higher priority over the 4 rogue-likes that he is making releases of.

Be patient.  =)  If you can't wait to test the latest build, donate some small amount of money and be a supporter.  =)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on March 11, 2013, 20:45
I have no doubts that there is always things to improve and bugs to correct, but has the possibility to make releases more frequent (or public bêta, or anything of that kind) been considered ?

It has.  Actually, for a while, they had a pretty good regular release schedule as I recall.  0.9.9.2 to 0.9.9.6 all came out in a pretty timely manner.  Things stalled at 0.9.9.6 for a number of reasons, I think, (someone correct me if I'm mistaken) including interest turning toward Aliensrl for a while, (which is a pretty cool game, if you haven't tried it) and the simple fact that this new version is taking a lot of tweaking, reworking, and rebalancing.  I'm guessing I'm not allowed to spoil anything, but I think it's okay for me to say that it has new weapons and items, new special levels, new challenge modes, and new badges.  I have to imagine that getting all that to function properly has to be a lot of work!

So, as Thelaptop says, be patient; it will all come together with time.  :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: GinDiamond on March 12, 2013, 03:59
oh yeah.

I kept up with the cia.vc svn page, and some of the tweaks were pretty sick. I don't know how much I can say, but I think its safe to mention dual-angels, weapon tweaks/balances, enemy ai is being reworked, some core functions and whatnot are being changed, the modding is gonna be different, the wall will be overhauled, and others.

The cia.vc went down a while ago, so I don't know much more than that.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on March 12, 2013, 10:26
Oh, it's not about patience :)
I've been waiting for monthes, of course... but I'm used to waiting, and won't cry about delays while my only contributions atm are forum posts, and a few wiki edits.

I still think that delaying the (full community) feedbacks isn't the best choice, but on the other hand, I could do the same if I was Kornel... and know what it is, not to want to release something unfinished.

The reason why I think it's bad, tough, is that I see so much discussions about imbalance... of weapons / assemblies / masteries... I think the more feedback come, the best the game will be (creating Tac boots every game pisses me off so much... I'd like to craft something else.. boots with activable haste / jumping / resistance / whatever... but just have some more options !)
I personally still have a few pages of feedback I started to wrote when I discovered the game, waiting for the 0.9.9.7 to be updated, then posted :p
Initially, it was supposed to be a "feedback mail" because I liked the game, but I got so many improvement suggestions... it kinda overgrown.

Anyway, I guess the major problem is that Kornel just doesn't have enough time (and I also got to consider doomRL isn't his only work, indeed).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: singalen on March 19, 2013, 04:34
What can I gain from a single Sniper mod, if I already have EE2 (and SoG5)?
I'm carrying it around now, but feel like dumping it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on March 19, 2013, 05:07
Since precision decreases with every tile of distance, adding a sniper should improves accuracy, to shoot out of your firing range, whatever level of EE you got.
I think it gives you 98% unmodified at any range, just divided by 2 if you don't see target. (thus, making other levels of EE useless, except maybe for storm bolter).

Also, in case you find a 2nd one (this sometimes happens.. or you could be scavenger), you'll be able to remove the /2 malus for out-of sight target, which is quite overpowered.

Or you could make a plasma shotgun... but I guess you don't use them much with SoG5.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: singalen on March 19, 2013, 05:33
Thanks.
I did find a second one, but I already shifted to energy pistols.
I guess I won't carry bullets around anyway, unless I find a combat pistol, so no double-sniper gun anyway. Unless I run into another blaster in the nearest time :D
I am a Scavenger, btw.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: GinDiamond on March 19, 2013, 06:59
DoomRL 0.9.9.7 has gone GOLD! Expect a release in 36hrs!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on March 19, 2013, 07:29
Quote
DoomRL 0.9.9.7 has gone GOLD! Expect a release in 36hrs!
Off topic, I request a ban !


More seriously, I was wondering what are, precisely, the restrictions for "using knives and fists" challenges ?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on March 19, 2013, 08:48
  • Can I kill an enemy while wearing acid spitter (for the resistance) ? I'm pretty sure this counts as a kill with worn weapon, at least, in 0.9.9.6 :(
  • Can I use rockets / longinus's alt fire to blow-up walls ? (or any sort non-living things), or will the shots count, and prevent me from getting my badge ?
  • Can I use a combat translocator ? (bah, why would I anyway)
  • Can I wound enemies (e.g. bosses) with weapons as long as I finish them with knives or fists ? (would seem ridiculous ^^)
  • Is the butcher's cleaver allowed ? IIRC, it counts as a blade, but allowing to use it in challenges requiring "knives & fists" would seem quite easy to me.
  • I think using scythe's alt fire, or nuking with a trigun marks the enemies as killed with it, but what if I overload a nuclear weapon ? do I use said weapon, or my fists when game count kills ? Finally, can I, at least, nuke using a nuke ?
  • I guess shockwave/hellwave packs and fire skulls are ok, since they are not weapons, right ?
  • anything else I should know ?
IIRC:
1) Think of it as if you were smacking the demon with the Acid Spitter, instead of a knife ;). This appears to be fixed in 0997.
2) As long as you don't kill anything with those shots, you're free to go. In fact, you can even injure the opponents freely, unless you land the killing blow with a weapon.
3) Yep.
4) Ah, explained in 2). Only the killing blow counts.
5) Yep, BC is allowed.
6) Nope, any such attacks are disallowed for the badges' purpose (IIRC).
7) Hmm ... Dunno here.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on March 19, 2013, 15:06
Unrelated kills count towards weapon equipped at the moment of enemy death. By unrelated i mean those what were made by smacking or shooting with equipped weapon. Not sure about smacking.
That means that Trigun is no-go as nuke is instant. Overcharge is okay as long you don't eqiup something other than a knife. Packs and skulls can be used too.

Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Ashannar on March 20, 2013, 21:40
A while back, 2DeviationsOut noted that a lot of the crazier stuff he pulled off relied on the fact that AI charges straight for you once you tag them with a shot. In response to this, thelaptop replied:

Quote
So the correct answer is to make the AI realise that it is being played for chumps and let it rethink its strategy.

I like how this is going.

* thelaptop grins evilly

In playing the new version, I have noticed that enemies don't behave ENTIRELY predictably once they've been tagged. They USUALLY do, but I've been surprised more than a few times. Is this a change in 0.9.9.7?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: e^cha on March 22, 2013, 12:03
Can I configure mouse? (0.9.9.7)
Thanks.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on March 25, 2013, 10:43
Can I configure mouse? (0.9.9.7)
Thanks.
Unfortunately, not yet.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on March 26, 2013, 08:57
Doing A100 HNTR, Scout INT2 FIN2 WK SOG. Found a GCB (for the first time ever, so finally!), building:

* An energy pistol
* A hyperblaster
* A tactical RL

Any ideas as to how well DG would work between GCB and Energy pistol? Or screw the EP altogether? What to use for backup, the hyperblaster or the RL?

I'm guessing DG + RL, but I just know someone's going to have other ideas...

EDIT: nevermind. It sucks ass when you want to aim a pistol at a trapped group of mancubi about 10 tiles away and fail to correctly hit the 'f' key. Death by interpretative dance :(
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on March 26, 2013, 10:14
I think DG isn't going to help much. I assume you'll be mostly using GCB in single and sometime semi-auto modes so dual shooting from GCB and EP will empty EP while GCB will still have 12 bullets left. Of course you can try reloading in the middle of the fight but it's unconvenient.
Another reason not to use DG is that it's annoying to constantly setup 2 pistols when you also use other weapons.
My advice: screw DG, get SoG3, get EEm after that take SoB(optional, but it helps), then max SoG after lvl12.
However if you find combat pistol, then DG is worth taking.

Added after reading edited version: ouch.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on March 26, 2013, 10:40
ouch.

Yeah that kinda stung. Luckily this game is great for helping me cope with defeat :)

Thanks for the input though.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Flame_US3r on March 29, 2013, 14:22
1. When throwing a weapon, eg. Combat Knife/Mjollnir, is accuracy determined by Melee or Ranged chance to hit?
2. On that note, is Mjollnir on par with other melee weapons in it's current state (1D15; avg 8 dmg, throw+return attack)?

I'm currently attempting a Marine MAD:AoSh and AoConfidence dual-angel, and the RNG has been good to me. I got a plasmatic shotgun AND a Sniper mod pack for defeating the shamblers. Due to some early power mods, I already have an elephant gun and a couple of shell boxes.

3. Since I have MAD, how useful is 7d3 plasma dmg vs. 12d3 elephant gun? (Plasmatic shotgun does have 30/30, 3 ammo/shot = 10 shots, but I have reloader)
4. Which shotgun would be a good use of my sniper mod + power mod for for a plasmatic upgrade?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on March 29, 2013, 15:09
Plasma shotguns tend to destroy walls when you cornershoot.
And sinse you're playing with MAD you couldn't care less about damage type, it's all piercing for you.
So for general usage elephant is better, for some desperate open-field fighting use plasma shotgun.
Do not assemble plasmatic anything, it's a waste for MAD build.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on March 29, 2013, 17:50
Indeed, but a plasma shotgun can still be useful to gib, especially in the mortuary.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on March 30, 2013, 09:18
Opinion time!
Any chance Skull Silver (clear City of Skulls/Abyssal Plains on Angel of Red Alert) is easier on Abyssal Plains, since Agony Elemental is fixed to spawn near the stairs?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Equality on March 30, 2013, 11:22
Quote
Do not assemble plasmatic anything, it's a waste for MAD build.
AoSh. Sometimes need destroy walls. Can't use RL/BFG/plasmagun. Plasmatic shotgun is the best thing you can do. Now it's a key to Wall (Hell Armory first - goos place for random mod pack). And useful later, when a lot of walls and lava around door. It uses standard shells, do a good damage, and destroy walls. Drop plasma shotgun, that strange device need plasma cells, uses 3 per shot and has damage only 7d3.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on March 30, 2013, 11:27
Drop plasma shotgun, that strange device need plasma cells, uses 3 per shot and has damage only 7d3.

I'd say that using cells is a plus in late game, where shells are very scarce. I've never had it drop in a shotgun game though.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on March 30, 2013, 11:38
@Equality
He already stated that he has plasma shotgun to gib corpses and to destroy walls.
If he starts using plasmatic shrapnel assembly every time he tries to cornershoot he will screw his cover. And that's never desirable.
While having plasma shotgun making plasmatic shotgun on MAD build is probably the best way to waste resources while also trying to kill yourself.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: grommile on April 02, 2013, 14:24
Why does Berserker Gold only require HMP, given that AoB is easier than both (a) AoMr and (b) a standard game using only knives and fists?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Flame_US3r on April 04, 2013, 11:35
@Equality
He already stated that he has plasma shotgun to gib corpses and to destroy walls.
If he starts using plasmatic shrapnel assembly every time he tries to cornershoot he will screw his cover. And that's never desirable.
While having plasma shotgun making plasmatic shotgun on MAD build is probably the best way to waste resources while also trying to kill yourself.
And that's exactly why I decided to just Pmod my newly found super shotgun and hang on to the sniper mod just in case I ran out of shells. Easy win. I'm going to be playing on HMP+ from now on methinks.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Anyone have any insight into my other questions?
1. When throwing a weapon, eg. Combat Knife/Mjollnir, is accuracy determined by Melee or Ranged chance to hit?
2. On that note, is Mjollnir on par with other melee weapons in it's current state (1D15; avg 8 dmg, throw+return attack)?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 06, 2013, 03:03
Is the list of 'random names' published anywhere? And how can one contribute? Or make it to the list, in fact?

I just played a speedrun game to land some easy medals, and on my mortem I saw my scout was actually named 'Ashannar'. Didn't see that one coming... :S
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on April 06, 2013, 07:51
It was one of the rewards during the last donation drive (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6009.0.html).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 06, 2013, 08:34
Ah, that explains it. And what about the list of all names? And contributions besides your own username?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Ashannar on April 06, 2013, 12:48
I just played a speedrun game to land some easy medals, and on my mortem I saw my scout was actually named 'Ashannar'. Didn't see that one coming... :S

:D
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 09, 2013, 00:48
Lightfoot Platinum: the wiki mentions it has to be performed on UV, but the game doesn't. Which should it be?

If the wiki is right, the in-game description should be updated....
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Fanta Hege on April 09, 2013, 01:15
I've been pondering this simple question for a while:
If you kill yourself and spidermastermind at the same time, without nuking yourself, (ex: BFG10k or rocket launcher point blank) is it a victory, partial or loss?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on April 09, 2013, 03:34
Lightfoot platinum mentionned UV in 0.9.9.6. I noticed it too, and IIRC, failed getting it, coz I played on HNTR.
I think game's decription has to be fixed

For the mastermind, I can't answer, but it's probably not too hard to test with a save (just copy your DoomRL data somewhere if it's not done yet, and scum a little with a save having BFG & rockets ammo)
After a few tries, you should have a good idea of the number of shoots necessary to kill him, and manage to finish both of you with a melee rocket.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on April 09, 2013, 11:42
Lightfoot platinum mentionned UV in 0.9.9.6. I noticed it too, and IIRC, failed getting it, coz I played on HNTR.
I think game's decription has to be fixed.
Done in repo.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on April 10, 2013, 20:54
I've been pondering this simple question for a while:
If you kill yourself and spidermastermind at the same time, without nuking yourself, (ex: BFG10k or rocket launcher point blank) is it a victory, partial or loss?

The answer to that question depends on where you happen to be standing relative to the mastermind.

The game processes spaces (EDIT:) row by row, from left to right in each row, starting from the top row going down.

If your space is processed before the Mastermind's, you lose (you'll see the mastermind destruction message after pressing enter for your own 'you die' message).

If the Mastermind's space is processed before yours, it is a standard victory.

So if you plan on doing this, you'll want to be BELOW (or directly RIGHT) of the mastermind, so that its space is processed before yours.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: MaiZure on April 10, 2013, 21:09
Is it possible that there is a general advantage to clearing a level from the Top-Left?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on April 10, 2013, 21:32
The processing only applies to area effects, like shotgun blasts and explosions (including nukes).  I don't see any general way to exploit this yet.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Radagast on April 15, 2013, 04:49
Question:

Is the wiki experience table correct and updated??

This part especially on the last levels:

23    600000
24    800000
25    900000

Seems like a huge step from 23 to 24. (200k?? :O )

Which honestly doesn't apply (I think) to my latest and current ao100 since I got from 23 to 24 quite easily in normal time (just 8-10 dungeon levels or so.)

And regarding the experience another question:

Do we get fewer xp from each enemy the more level ups we get? Or not?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: zenfur on April 15, 2013, 11:05
Quick question! As saving on special levels doesn't work (crashes).

I am AoMR and I have 1 phase shift. If I tele into Contamination area will I be able to go out without trying to aim with barons' ballz to destroy the wall or when I clear it I'm trapped and have to suicide with Q and save no stats?

Edit: Quick question but no quick answer :( I guess I'll tackle it! (UV) Wish me luck.

Edit2: I failed :( No event was called, so I supposed that I have to lure barons to do the job. I've run out of med pack too early though :/ Good run.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on April 15, 2013, 11:23
Yeah, with no explosives or (homing) phases, that's basically a one-way trip.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on April 15, 2013, 11:30
Quick question! As saving on special levels doesn't work (crashes).

I am AoMR and I have 1 phase shift. If I tele into Contamination area will I be able to go out without trying to aim with barons' ballz to destroy the wall or when I clear it I'm trapped and have to suicide with Q and save no stats?

Heh, ninja'ed.
But yeah, if you do not have a way to get out (Homing Phase, Hell Staff or another phase pack, explosives), you WILL be trapped.

EDIT: There IS a missile launcher on the level.  You should see if that works.  EDIT 2: (Totally forgot about the AoMr part, oops. :( )

Question:

Is the wiki experience table correct and updated??

This part especially on the last levels:

23    600000
24    800000
25    900000

Seems like a huge step from 23 to 24. (200k?? :O )

I think 24 is now 750,000 XP (tehtmi?)  Values for 23 and 25 I believe are correct.

And regarding the experience another question:

Do we get fewer xp from each enemy the more level ups we get? Or not?

XP earned is the same regardless of character level.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: zenfur on April 15, 2013, 11:37
Thanks, that was quick but too slow at once :p Actually savings being bugged for me don't fix the issue as I'd have to decide where to save to get ass kicking marine.
It's shameful.
Can't it secretly help such trials like mine (for AoB, AoMr and AoSh)? Like you could use Arena Master Staff to abolish the wall after you clear the level (without consuming the item as in
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
). Would be nice to have guaranteed escape after doing the job (and acquiring badge). There aren't even any ways to commit legal suicide after clearing the level so one can't get the badge this way :(.

@shark: I was AoMr... I tried before. Doesn't work.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Rajhin on April 15, 2013, 12:01
? Like you could use Arena Master Staff to abolish the wall
No, there is no secret way to remove this wall. But if you are lucky you can find alucard's gun with fire damage and blast through wall with it. Or plasma shotgun/plasmatic shrapnel in AoSh.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on April 15, 2013, 12:41
Also, you get a HPD for clearing Hell's arena in AoB (err... considering the Arena always spawns at lvl2 now, I'm not sure it makes things easier anymore)

Quote
Is it possible that there is a general advantage to clearing a level from the Top-Left?
Shotgunning pain elemental from the upper left could be a good habit, no ? (not a big exploit, but can be good to know)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Radagast on April 16, 2013, 03:44
I think 24 is now 750,000 XP (tehtmi?)  Values for 23 and 25 I believe are correct.

XP earned is the same regardless of character level.

Thanks for the info m8.

However based on the particular run I'm doing now, I still think that it required less xp to go from 23 to 24 level, than it requires from 24 to 25. The difference is kinda noticeable. Maybe the 25 level was changed to 1 million?

Is there anyone (probably from developer side) who can confirm for certain the exact XP values of the last 3-4 levels in the table so we can update the wiki accordingly?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Rapturous on April 17, 2013, 14:53
Hey, folks,

Last year, I posted in this thread about fixing my resolution so that it wasn't so small, and now that I'm starting DoomRL back up, I followed the instructions I followed last year, and now the tiles are way too small!  The instructions I received last year were as follows:

Quote
There should be some parameters in config.lua near the top with words like "Windowed" and "Fullscreen": these are probably what you're looking for. I forget the exact names, but there's probably something that sounds like "WindowedScreenWidth" and "WindowedScreenHeight", which would be used to set the resolution of the windowed game (similar for Fullscreen).

This doesn't do much for me if I change the values to 1680x1050.  Someone else said that changing the TileMult to 1 instead of -1 would provide the smallest tiles possible.  I do not want that.  How can I fiddle with this until it's an appropriate size for my preferred experience?  I find it hard to believe I can only have two choices!  Thanks in advance for your help.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on April 17, 2013, 15:40
Too small tiles ???
What about increasing TileMult, to 2 or more ?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Rapturous on April 17, 2013, 21:56
2 resets it to default.  1 is the only thing I've tried that changes it, and the tiles are way too small for me there.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on April 18, 2013, 10:31
There aren't more than those two options for the tile multiplier since it's an integer.  You can try playing in full screen with a smaller resolution:

Code: [Select]
StartFullscreen       = true
FullscreenWidth       = 1024
FullscreenHeight      = 768

or for widescreen monitors:

Code: [Select]
StartFullscreen       = true
FullscreenWidth       = 1280
FullscreenHeight      = 800

There's nothing you can do for windowed mode unfortunately.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tdef on April 22, 2013, 00:50
is there a way to toggle alternate fire for weapons without pressing the hotkey for each shot/volley/whatever?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 22, 2013, 01:21
Pressing caps lock so you'll hit 'F' instead of 'f'?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tdef on April 22, 2013, 01:30
why i have to press f i just click on it
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 22, 2013, 03:26
Ah, I hardly use the mouse at all. Can't help you then.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tdef on April 23, 2013, 09:11
how viable are burst builds without MAc? the ammo consumption rate looks ridicolous but on the other hand playing without intuition sounds like a bad joke
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on April 23, 2013, 10:33
Intuition is for noobies (I love it :p), but Cateye is a very good build. works well.
I also tried marines with EE instead of MAc, and it's great too.

In all cases, a nuclear or nanomachic plasma/laser rifle will be your best friend, but they are not necessary at all (and it seems all good players will prefer antigrav boots over a nanomachic weapon)

My personnal choice is to alternate with the use of a shotgun (usually, normal or tactical. I don't like 7d3 ones), which has a great ammo efficiency and is always reliable. I hate playing without a shotgun anyway, it makes pain elemental expensive, and sometimes dangerous.

Quote
the ammo consumption rate looks ridiculous
That's only true for the plasma gun !
I rarely use a chaingun, but it's quite effective, and you always find tons of bullets.
Also, if you never tried it, craft a gatling gun ! I prefer using my B-mods on nanomachic weapon, tactical RL or BFG, but it's a cheap and effective gun : you won't have the same ammo problems, and the damages are equal to a plasma gun (well, bullet damages still suck a little, and don't divide armor, but it's not that bad)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tdef on April 25, 2013, 03:06
are special levels actually randomized? when i played HNTR i always got Deimos lab and now that i'm trying to clear HMP i always get hell's armory
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on April 25, 2013, 03:45
are special levels actually randomized? when i played HNTR i always got Deimos lab and now that i'm trying to clear HMP i always get hell's armory
I scoured through my mortems, and I found at least one of each combination of HNTR/HMP and Armory/DLab. So yes, they are randomized.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on April 25, 2013, 19:08
I was mucking around on an ITYTD run when Agony Elemental spawns at Abyssal Plains like it does on other difficulties. IIRC, AE didn't spawn in City of Skulls for 0.9.9.6, so is AE supposed to be spawning at Abyssal Plains on ITYTD?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 25, 2013, 23:57
Yes to both, apparently. Once you know, however, you can prepare for it and have no problems whatsoever.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: tdef on April 27, 2013, 14:22
how do you clear the vaults "by luck" as requested in one of the challenges? by nuke?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Rajhin on April 27, 2013, 14:28
how do you clear the vaults "by luck" as requested in one of the challenges? by nuke?
By phasing in the middle vault and cracking walls of others.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: AlterAsc on April 28, 2013, 06:14
Guaranteed solution is 4 repeated uses of scythe's alt-fire and you're good unless you're unlucky, then you may require 5. IMO worth only if you desperately need 100%/Conqueror and Scavenger Platinum/Diamond.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on April 28, 2013, 13:13
Guaranteed solution is 4 repeated uses of scythe's alt-fire and you're good unless you're unlucky, then you may require 5. IMO worth only if you desperately need 100%/Conqueror and Scavenger Platinum/Diamond.

I'd say it's the easiest diamond badge, so that's something. You need to be able to do a YAAM UV run, and have enough medkits in the Vaults.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: grommile on April 29, 2013, 01:51
I'd say it's the easiest diamond badge, so that's something.
No. The easiest diamond badge is Technician (theoretically achievable without ever leaving ITYTD), and the second easiest is Armorer.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 29, 2013, 05:32
and the second easiest is Armorer.

If you know how to wield the DS, that is... I don't think Armorer Diamond is going to be high on my list... :S
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on April 29, 2013, 05:33
If you're like me and don't spoil yourself with the wiki when it comes to assemblies, then Technician Diamond is quite tough. And armorer takes a LOT of time to get. You might as well shoot for another diamond while trying to get it, and you'll likely succeed before you gather 3 of everything.

Also, I believe as of 997, unsuccessfully picking up DS doesn't add it to the list of uniques found? If that's the case, you need to figure it out as well to get the badge... and then find it two more times.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: grommile on April 29, 2013, 12:41
Technician Diamond is not hard even if you do not wish to read spoilers; it is merely tedious.

Armorer Diamond is only hard (rather than just very tedious and a bit tricky) because the DoomRL community likes to pat itself on the back about having secrets.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on April 29, 2013, 15:35
My point is that if you want to get your first diamond, it's easier to learn to play well enough to get scavenger or gatekeeper diamond badges rather than grind for the others.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: grommile on April 29, 2013, 17:20
My point is that if you want to get your first diamond, it's easier to learn to play well enough to get scavenger or gatekeeper diamond badges rather than grind for the others.
It has the potential to be quicker, but it certainly isn't easier.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on April 29, 2013, 21:13
Quick question on the Biggest Fucking Gun... on the wiki, it says the blast radius is 16.

Won't I die?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on April 29, 2013, 22:04
The ensuing explosions from the biggest fucking gun don't hurt you, just like how firing a BFG point blank at a wall doesn't melt you instantly. Unlike, say, getting caught in the blast radius of any rocket launcher or the BFG10k.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on April 29, 2013, 22:07
Good, because I just got the second firestorm pack... but why the difference between the BFG10k and the rest of the BFG family?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: MaiZure on April 29, 2013, 22:33

... but why the difference between the BFG10k and the rest of the BFG family?

You'll have to ask iD Software - They invented the BFG10K in Quake 2 (and 3?)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on April 29, 2013, 23:09
Ah, so it's based on a difference in the actual games.

In related news, the Biggest Fucking Nuclear Gun is the most fun weapon over. Every, maybe, twenty seconds or so, it's ready to instagib entire armies of high end demons.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on May 03, 2013, 11:45
What goes well with Cerberus Armor?

Currently in a UV 100 run and I have an Onyx Armor that I've thrown a P mod onto already. I have the rest of the mods to make a Cerberus Armor, but will it retain infinite durability once assembled?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on May 03, 2013, 12:08
It should - in my experience, modified armors retain their base stats and abilities, only modifying them as dictated by the assembly. It's also worth noting that it's possible to Onyx mod other assemblies to give them infinite durability, even if the assembly wouldn't have that. Since an Onyx armor already has that ability, I don't see why it should lose it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on May 03, 2013, 12:11
According to the Wiki page (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Cerberus_armor), Cerberus retains the durability of the armour used. It should thus be infinite.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Fusilliban on May 03, 2013, 13:03
If you're playing the "I have all the levels of hell to find cool gear" game, cerberus also goes well if you apply it to ballistic vest, duelist armor, or gothic armor, all of which have 50% resistance to the categories cerberus doesn't touch.  Though at that point you probably want to take a lot of TaN and/or hope you find an onyx mod to put on the completed non-invulnerable armor.  (I feel like gothic must be best for this, but I haven't found any in a long time.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on May 03, 2013, 14:01
If you're playing the "I have all the levels of hell to find cool gear" game, cerberus also goes well if you apply it to ballistic vest, duelist armor, or gothic armor, all of which have 50% resistance to the categories cerberus doesn't touch.  Though at that point you probably want to take a lot of TaN and/or hope you find an onyx mod to put on the completed non-invulnerable armor.  (I feel like gothic must be best for this, but I haven't found any in a long time.)

1. "I have all the levels of hell to find cool gear" is Archangel of 666. I guess Ao100 is kinda like that, but I'm also playing on UV. But yes.
2. Yeah, I'm not getting TaN anytime soon. I'm building Cateye Dualgunner (despite the last 10-so floors have been nothing but me blasting an assault shotty, stupid game), and Cateye blocks TaN, Brute, and Reloader. So much for that. I do, however, have a P-modded Duelist Armor...

What I should probably do is focus on getting offensively-geared up first before focusing on defense. Or maybe not. I have such limited experience on UV it's kinda dumb that I decided to attempt UV 100 instead of something sensible. (UV AoLT? heh)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on May 03, 2013, 14:29
Search me... I get my ass handed to me by HMP =P

I'm perhaps slightly better at Ao100 then other challenges, but that's only because I hate special levels and love Ammochain and infinite mods. My basic strategy for my Ao666 runs was build a big indestructible armor and stop worrying about it =P resistances weren't a concern on HNTR since I had more large medkits then I could ever use, and barely even touched those thanks to powerup heals. Also my big indestructible armor was cybernano, so I couldn't go changing it around even if I'd been so inclined =P

On HMP, I imagine it's a lot trickier, to say nothing of UV...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on May 03, 2013, 14:44
That run ended. I always forget about how quickly the really nasty enemies show up on UV. I guess if I played more UV, I'd get used to the difficulty curve.

The lesson I learned is that I should focus on building my weapons first before I even consider what master assemblies I should be aiming for. I've heard good things about Cateye Dualgunner before, but they call it Glass Cannon Cateye Dualgunner for a reason.

P.S.: I hate UV
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on May 08, 2013, 09:43
A Mancubus has line of fire on me. My next move will not put me immediately behind cover, my weapon will not kill him in one attack.

What are my options here? So far I've narrowed them down to "die" and "die horribly".

On a slightly related note, why does the act of changing tactics to running cost time? That should be an instantaneous change. You can say it should take some time to accelerate up to running speed, but I should at least be allowed to specify a direction to begin moving in, in that case, since one does not accelerate to full speed while standing in place.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on May 08, 2013, 09:50
What are my options here?

Move, or he'll do your moving for you. Moving (perpendicularly) at least gives you a chance to dodge, and if you're outside of the blast range, you might even end up unhurt. He'll probably shoot again though. And of course it all depends on traits, armour and resistances. Unless you play really stupidly, Mancubi aren't that intimidating with slightly better than average gear.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on May 08, 2013, 10:03
Eh... I've been playing UV, so I don't have even average gear by the time I find them, now. They're almost a death sentence to me at this point, if I'm not able to cornershoot them.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on May 08, 2013, 10:55
In that case evasive action is the only option, I reckon. It would be the difference between certain and probable death.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on May 08, 2013, 11:16
With enough speed, you should be able to retread before the mancubus spots you and fires. In any case, the best option is "no getting into this situation"...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on May 08, 2013, 11:23
On a slightly related note, why does the act of changing tactics to running cost time? That should be an instantaneous change. You can say it should take some time to accelerate up to running speed, but I should at least be allowed to specify a direction to begin moving in, in that case, since one does not accelerate to full speed while standing in place.

I wish I could accelerate from normal to running speed in 0.1s.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on May 09, 2013, 05:21
When aiming at a tile instead of at a monster, there is a rather annoying difference between aiming within and without LOS: in the former case, the game remembers the location and uses it as a starting point when you fire again, in the latter case is doesn't and firing again will cause you to aim at yourself. Why is this, and can it be fixed so the game will always remember the last tile you aimed at?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Matt_S on May 09, 2013, 08:38
I wish I could accelerate from normal to running speed in 0.1s.
I wish I didn't have to wait in place to accelerate from normal to running speed.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on May 09, 2013, 12:26
Hm, what if you hit TAB to change tactics and then was prompted to choose a direction, so you could "boost" yourself off the ground and start running in that direction?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on May 09, 2013, 17:41
F**king shamblers, how do they work?

I've been doing some HNTR runs on AoC trying to pick up Gatekeeper gold. On the most recent run, I'd cleared out Hell's Armory, and thought, what the hell, I've been playing a lot of HMP and UV - a shambler on HNTR can't be trouble, right? I mean, I have this plasma shotgun and a lot of cells for it, and a regular shotgun if I run out... this should be no problem. So I pulled the lever. I shot it a couple times, no damage to me, it teleported away. So I waited for it to come back, and it did... fully healed.

And then it killed me in two hits. While I was wearing blue armor.

What the actual hell?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on May 10, 2013, 01:19
Yeah, they heal. You have to keep the pressure on. With the lower level you are on AoC, it's a challenge.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Dreadlord on May 15, 2013, 11:55
I've got a question on assemblies. I've decided to try a Sharpshooter technician, made a storm bolter and encountered a strange thing:

The wiki explicitly states:

Quote
Comments/special:    Storm bolters cannot receive additional mods, even with WK2.

Nevertheless, I checked it with a bulk mod and, to my surprise, it was successfully installed on the bolter.

What is it? Was the bolter changed in the latest version, is it a bug or the page at the wiki is outdated?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on May 15, 2013, 12:24
Well, that bites - I wasn't allowed to slap a P mod on one in 0.9.9.7....
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on May 15, 2013, 14:25
Well, that bites - I wasn't allowed to slap a P mod on one in 0.9.9.7....
You know you can't mod an assembly crafted before you got WK2, right ?
It's the same reason why you gotta wait to assemble your tac boots if you want to max them to +25%.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: siwucha on May 15, 2013, 15:27
I've got a question on assemblies. I've decided to try a Sharpshooter technician, made a storm bolter and encountered a strange thing:

The wiki explicitly states:

Nevertheless, I checked it with a bulk mod and, to my surprise, it was successfully installed on the bolter.

What is it? Was the bolter changed in the latest version, is it a bug or the page at the wiki is outdated?

Thanks for the hint. I changed the wiki page.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on May 15, 2013, 23:31
You know you can't mod an assembly crafted before you got WK2, right ?

Well.... I do now...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Fusilliban on May 21, 2013, 13:33
Is there some trick to doing an AoSh run and not running out of shells?  I'm engaging at close range more often than not, my shotguns have a load of power mods on them, but I keep running out of shells a level or two before the Mastermind.

Do I just need a nano pack?  Or would this all be more ammo-efficent with MAD and an elephant gun?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on May 21, 2013, 13:38
MAD tends to help a lot, I've found out. And of course, shooting at as close a range as possible.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: IronBeer on May 21, 2013, 13:47
Is there some trick to doing an AoSh run and not running out of shells?  I'm engaging at close range more often than not, my shotguns have a load of power mods on them, but I keep running out of shells a level or two before the Mastermind.

Do I just need a nano pack?  Or would this all be more ammo-efficent with MAD and an elephant gun?
Not really, just carry a LOT of spare shells- going into Hell with 8 (non-backpacked) stacks and 3 shell boxes is not at all excessive. If you're playing on HNTR or HMP then ammo shouldn't generally be much of a problem.

Also, you don't always need to kill everything on a given floor. Generally you want to, but in a situation like what you described (low ammo a few floors before Spidey) it might be better to just bolt for the stairs and conserve what you have left.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Orvus on May 21, 2013, 17:33
Quick question: what's Mt. Erebus like? Is it a good idea to go there while doing AoSh?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Fusilliban on May 21, 2013, 18:42
Perhaps this will finally give me a reason to experiment without my two favorite basics, Finesse and Hellrunner.  I've been trying Shottyhead so far and it's not getting the job done.  Or I need to be on the lookout for Viles next to sergeants and no friggin' lava to eat the ammo.

Thanks all.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on May 22, 2013, 01:06
Is there some trick to doing an AoSh run and not running out of shells?  I'm engaging at close range more often than not, my shotguns have a load of power mods on them, but I keep running out of shells a level or two before the Mastermind.

Do I just need a nano pack?  Or would this all be more ammo-efficent with MAD and an elephant gun?
MAD and elephant gun are very ammo-efficient, so that's a good idea.
However, I believe you are just having bad luck. I've done a AoSh UV YAAM before, and never had any serious ammo problems.
Clearing the Arena rewards you with a shell box, Armory contains one as well (killing the Shambler is not needed there), Military base may contain some in the storage half of the level. Visiting those levels is likely to help a lot.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on May 22, 2013, 01:14
Army of the Dead, elephant gun and a box of shells should solve most of your ammo problems.
For the majority of 0.9.9.6 I was one of those "tac shotty best thing evar lyk omg" people but now I highly recommend elephant gun over tactical shotgun. If the game gives you an assault shotgun (or alternatively, should you choose to enter and clear out Mortuary/Limbo and find it there), just ignore it.

And same goes for the Jackhammer. Deceptively badass weapon but it chews through ammo like it's no one's business.

Outside of AoSh--or if you have far too many phase devices to care--you can take down the Wall/Containment Area to hopefully mitigate some of the ammo problems, since the backpack increases the maximum capacity of ammo stacks. 70 shells instead of 50 shells is nice, but several stacks goes a long way.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: deathknight1728 on June 05, 2013, 16:21
I lost all sanity when I used to get further in this game. I really want to just complete this game as a marine or scout that uses melee for ultimate weapon of choice. I am TERRIBLE at coming up with stat combinations that work so if anyone has a some combinations that work or should work until I reach lvl 10 or the highest you get. Like I said something that works and can be done. I had the idea of playing this game penned when I got further. What killed me was my stats didn't aid me when I got to the spider guys (honestly don't remember name).

Seeing as I regained my sanity maybe someone can post a good build and aid me in losing it again :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on June 05, 2013, 17:00
Go for ITYTD Scout, then, and build toward Blademaster. Grab the guaranteed chainsaw, maybe mod it up a bit, but definitely keep a backup weapon or two, since you're not limited to melee only like an AoB. Brute is your friend, as is Hellrunner, with melee builds.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on June 05, 2013, 19:16
I lost all sanity when I used to get further in this game. I really want to just complete this game as a marine or scout that uses melee for ultimate weapon of choice. I am TERRIBLE at coming up with stat combinations that work so if anyone has a some combinations that work or should work until I reach lvl 10 or the highest you get. Like I said something that works and can be done. I had the idea of playing this game penned when I got further. What killed me was my stats didn't aid me when I got to the spider guys (honestly don't remember name).

The spider guys are called Arachnotrons. Everyone hates them. Join us in the hatin'. >:-)
Scout's Blademaster is quite good. This is the build I suggest, and this is assuming you play on ITYTD, which is perfectly fine (though truth be told I haven't played in quite a while):

1. Start with a point in Brute. Clear out Phobos Base Entry and use the shotgun when you take down the former sergeant.
2. Don't descend the red stairs on Phobos-2, because this takes you down to Hell's Arena. While it isn't particularly difficult, it makes Chained Court a little tougher, particularly for builds that focus primarily on melee. At your next level up, get a second point into Brute. This lets you get Berserker on your next level up.
3. Enter Chained Court. Pick up your chainsaw and go berserk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3F6yG8GM3g). If you haven't already gotten Berserker, do so. Keep your shotgun and plenty of shells around.

4. Next order of business is to get the remaining traits that let you use Blademaster, which are 2 points into Hellrunner, 3 points into Brute, and 1 point into Berserker. Getting two points into Hellrunner is probably a better idea than getting Brute 3 immediately after getting Berserker. Though you might want to read up on how dodging (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Strategy:Dodging) and running (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Tactics) work.

I don't really want to say much more than that, as the above steps will at least get you started.
Don't feel pressured to take every red staircase you see, it's not required to clear x number of special stages to get to the last boss or whatever.
Sometimes a build works, and sometimes it doesn't, it just depends on the situation and how badly the RNG has decided to screw you over on your particular run.
Yell some obscenities, flip a table, take a breather (or a drink), do whatever you need to do to calm your nerves and then try again.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on June 05, 2013, 20:09
The spider guys are called Arachnotrons. Everyone hates them. Join us in the hatin'. >:-)


Edit: So, in the spirit of this thread, are you supposed to be able to get Explorer/Conqueror from ITYTD? Feeling dejected after the above spoliered mortem, I gave the ITYTD Blademaster run outlined above a go to boost my morale. Lo and behold, in my awards list are Explorer and Conqueror(my first ever), despite many of the special levels being missing(including Mortuary/Limbo, no YAFW for me >.<). This seems odd to me - if I knew I could have cheesed those two badges, I'd have done so ages ago =P I guess technically the achievement(visit/clear all generated levels) applies to ITYTD, since I did complete every level that showed up, but... that's not all of them =P feels a bit cheap(though of course that's never stopped me before, lol).

Spoiler: For reference: (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: singalen on June 06, 2013, 03:45
Giftdropping (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Strategy:Giftdropping) is also something hard to deduce by oneself.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on June 06, 2013, 11:17
Edit: So, in the spirit of this thread, are you supposed to be able to get Explorer/Conqueror from ITYTD? Feeling dejected after the above spoliered mortem, I gave the ITYTD Blademaster run outlined above a go to boost my morale. Lo and behold, in my awards list are Explorer and Conqueror(my first ever), despite many of the special levels being missing(including Mortuary/Limbo, no YAFW for me >.<). This seems odd to me - if I knew I could have cheesed those two badges, I'd have done so ages ago =P I guess technically the achievement(visit/clear all generated levels) applies to ITYTD, since I did complete every level that showed up, but... that's not all of them =P feels a bit cheap(though of course that's never stopped me before, lol).

Hell's Armory/Deimos Lab, Unholy Cathedral, Vaults, and Mortuary/Limbo never appear on ITYTD. They are simply never generated, therefore are not included in the overall generated special levels count. If you enter all the special stages, you get Explorer, and if you clear all the special stages, then you get Conqueror.

Spoiler: Opinions... (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on June 06, 2013, 11:31

Spoiler: Opinions... (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on June 06, 2013, 13:33

Oh you and your cheesing and farming.
YAFW should not be a concern for people learning how to play ITYTD. YAAM, maybe. But definitely not FWs.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on June 06, 2013, 16:08
Well, sure, but it's gonna come up anyway. The first thing any player with a nuke and an invulnerability is going to do when he reaches the Mastermind is save himself the trouble of the fight by safely clearing the floor with the nuke, whether he knows about YAFW or not.

It's possible that most players in that position won't know about the nuke BFG active, but that's the only thing preventing it, I think.

I agree with you, I'd be happy to see more special levels in ITYTD, since it is a learning level. I just think I know the reason that particular one isn't there... and it's players like me, lol.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Juice on June 07, 2013, 06:26
Hi, quick question - Will I get Malicious Knives Cross medal when I use chainswords, or do I have to stick to (modded) combat knives?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on June 07, 2013, 07:57
Per my knowledge, chainswords do indeed count as knives for Malicious Blades, so I expect they also work for the MKC(wish I'd known that when I got mine - combat knife all the way, lol). I stand willing to be corrected, however, if someone more knowledgeable happens to disagree with me.

I would run a quick ITYTD MKC to check, but I'm in the middle of a 666 run at the moment, so you'll have to either run it yourself, or hope someone more certain then I am comes along and posts ;)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on June 07, 2013, 08:26
According to the Wiki, chainsword indeed counts as a knife, and as such is eligible for both Knives Cross (and similar badges) and for MMB master trait.
(It would be quite a pointless assembly if it didn't.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: singalen on June 07, 2013, 09:25
What's better for Archangel of travel, Ammochain:
* Red Armor(P), Tower Shield or Blue Armor(O)?
* Tactical boots or lava steel boots?
(I don't want to lose the insane speed bonus, though protection is also very attractive)

EDIT: Ended up with Tac boots, O pack in inventory and Red(P) armor on. Next level yielded another Red armor, and I slapped an O-mod on it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Juice on June 09, 2013, 05:01
Hi, quick question - Will I get Malicious Knives Cross medal when I use chainswords, or do I have to stick to (modded) combat knives?

Confirmed. Did the run with dual chainswords, got the medal.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on June 19, 2013, 06:10
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on June 19, 2013, 10:16
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on June 19, 2013, 11:10
I appreciate that reply, thanks. On a somewhat related note, are there still issues with damage attribution as far as awards like Sunrise Iron Fist and Malicious Knives Cross are concerned, and if so, are there also plans to adjust that? I recall a mortem in which monster deaths not caused by the player which occurred while the player had different weapon equipped were counted as kills for that weapon, despite the fact that the weapon itself did no damage.

Edit: Link to the above mortem (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6289.0.html)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on June 19, 2013, 17:01
There is a fix for that in the repo. You'll see it when the next beta comes out.  Kills track what the source of the killing blow was and don't just automatically assign the kill to the held weapon.  So for the Grammaton Cleric Cross, you actually have to kill the Mastermind with that weapon.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on June 19, 2013, 19:49
While I have your attention, is it possible for you to clarify the description of the Vampyre Master Trait in the next release?

Currently it states that you gain +3 HP upon killing an enemy - however, in practice, the amount of HP gain seems to be related to the enemy killed. In my current game, to list a few examples, I'm getting +1%(of 110 HP) for formers, +4% for basic arachnotrons, and +7% for nightmare demons.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on June 19, 2013, 21:40
This was part of a balance change for 0.9.9.5 that got reverted before release then re-reverted for 0.9.9.6.  Vampyre awards 10% of the target's max hp (rounding up).  I'll go ahead and update the description.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on June 20, 2013, 01:34
...and I will go ahead and mix things up more for DS + BA so everyone can continue to hate me or something.

Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on June 20, 2013, 05:53
...and I will go ahead and mix things up more for DS + BA so everyone can continue to hate me or something.

Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on June 20, 2013, 06:28
Yes yes, keep on hating me.  Blame me, censure me, chide me.

Meanwhile, next quick question.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on June 20, 2013, 07:41
OK, calm down, both of you.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: VANDAM on June 20, 2013, 16:22
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on June 20, 2013, 16:33
Yes yes, keep on hating me.  Blame me, censure me, chide me.

Meanwhile, next quick question.

Huh? I'm not blaming anyone o.O I'm just asking - why the need for change? I'm not trying to argue with you, or necessarily even change your mind about it. I'm just curious what caused you to feel the need for change in that particular aspect of the game.

Seriously, no offence intended.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on June 20, 2013, 17:10
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: wheals on June 23, 2013, 10:20
The wiki (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Trigun) claims that Angel Arm nukes the level immediately. Does that mean that it explodes upon alt-reloading, or that it starts a 10s countdown timer like a nuclear weapon? For obvious reasons, I don't want to experiment ( I just saved on the stairs to Dis).

EDIT: Never mind, just saw this post (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,3999.msg36714.html#msg36714). Looks like I'll take my lava element before arming it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on June 24, 2013, 00:28
Yeah, when I first got it, I felt like experimenting. Good thing you didn't =)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: HexaDoken on June 24, 2013, 03:51
How much HP armors have?

In other words, how much effective damage you have to take for your armor to go down from 100% to 0%?

Almost all armors that are not indestructible have a durability rating of 100%, with rare exceptions like Fireshield, Tower Armor and Gothic Armor.. Does that mean that all destructible armors aside the aforementioned three effectively have identical durability?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Equality on June 24, 2013, 04:24
100% = 100 points of durability. 200%=200 points.
acid attack (hell knights-barons-bruisers) do 2x damage to armor
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on June 24, 2013, 05:17
How much HP armors have?

In other words, how much effective damage you have to take for your armor to go down from 100% to 0%?

Almost all armors that are not indestructible have a durability rating of 100%, with rare exceptions like Fireshield, Tower Armor and Gothic Armor.. Does that mean that all destructible armors aside the aforementioned three effectively have identical durability?

...and according to this (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Protection), you lose as many durability points as HP with every attack, except for acid damage (barons) which doubles the durability hit.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on June 24, 2013, 12:58
That description has two caveats that should probably be put on the wiki:

1) The armor damage is applied before the armor value modifier based on the damage type.  10 shrapnel damage versus a target with 2 armor will deal 6 damage to the target's HP but 8 to the target's armor durability.

2) A successful survivalist throw (50% chance to drop 1 damage after protection/resists to 0) will still deal that damage to armor.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Juice on June 26, 2013, 10:00
How does Grammaton Cleric Cross work? Do you have to kill Mastermind with the Beretta, or is just shooting him enough? Wiki says, that the requirements are "Mastermind shot with the Cleric Beretta". I have shot him with it, his status changed from unhurt to scratched, then I nuked him for partial (I also went for Fallout Gold Cross). But no Grammaton Cleric Cross for me... :(
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on June 26, 2013, 10:12
How does Grammaton Cleric Cross work? Do you have to kill Mastermind with the Beretta, or is just shooting him enough? Wiki says, that the requirements are "Mastermind shot with the Cleric Beretta". I have shot him with it, his status changed from unhurt to scratched, then I nuked him for partial (I also went for Fallout Gold Cross). But no Grammaton Cleric Cross for me... :(
You do indeed have to kill the Mastermind with it, I believe.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on June 26, 2013, 11:22
How does Grammaton Cleric Cross work? Do you have to kill Mastermind with the Beretta, or is just shooting him enough? Wiki says, that the requirements are "Mastermind shot with the Cleric Beretta". I have shot him with it, his status changed from unhurt to scratched, then I nuked him for partial (I also went for Fallout Gold Cross). But no Grammaton Cleric Cross for me... :(

Kill the Mastermind with the Grammaton Cleric Baretta.
At least you got another medal in exchange for not being able to get GC Cross. :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on June 26, 2013, 11:23
Fixed the wiki, has been bothering me for too long as well...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on June 26, 2013, 12:56
"I have shot him with it, his status changed from unhurt to scratched, then I nuked him for partial"

xD xD xD

Well, if the wiki was wrong, I understant your disapointement, but it's so fun to read !


btw, about questions, I don't know if that one (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6330.0.html) is quick, but it sunk so fast I wonder if anyone saw my post.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on July 14, 2013, 10:26
Say, does assembling a nanofiber armor make it sticky (thus permanently stuck to you)?

I seem to recall that it does, but I'm not sure.

Edit: Nope, it doesn't. though i did savescum but whatever
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on July 14, 2013, 12:11
Nanofiber, the basic assembly, _can_ be unequipped and changed. Nanofiber skin (the advanced assembly) or cybernano armor (the master assembly), on the other hand, is cursed and can not be unequipped.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Fusilliban on July 15, 2013, 05:34
SoB and shotguns:

([8d3] * (1-(0.07*[distance]))) + SoB

or

([8d3 + SoB] * (1-(0.07*[distance])))

I've seen text indicating the former, but my experience is suggesting that it's the latter, or that the nano super shotgun is not the glorious weapon I think it is.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on July 15, 2013, 08:22
SoB and shotguns:

([8d3] * (1-(0.07*[distance]))) + SoB

or

([8d3 + SoB] * (1-(0.07*[distance])))

I've seen text indicating the former, but my experience is suggesting that it's the latter, or that the nano super shotgun is not the glorious weapon I think it is.
It's the latter.  However, the bigger problem with double shotguns, super shotguns, and the Jackhammer is the fact that each blast causes knockback, which reduces the damage of the second (and third+ for Jackhammer) shot, since they are handled sequentially.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Fusilliban on July 15, 2013, 10:01
Nice to know I did my math right.  The nano super is still an amazing crowd control weapon, spamming AoE without destroying goodies and armor-piercing to boot.

Thanks, Shark!

(Mmm, third+.  I've had Jackhammer+TH, some day I'll have MAc as well.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: runequester on July 20, 2013, 10:03
Angel of 666. Wiki says should unlock at Sergeant Major, but I'm Warrant Officer, and the last 3 arch angel challenges are still locked.

Running 64 bit linux, in case that's relevant.


Thanks!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: GinDiamond on July 20, 2013, 13:10
Angel of 666. Wiki says should unlock at Sergeant Major, but I'm Warrant Officer, and the last 3 arch angel challenges are still locked.

I don't think it matters what machine you're running, because I have the exact same problem.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on July 21, 2013, 12:15
Angel of 666. Wiki says should unlock at Sergeant Major, but I'm Warrant Officer, and the last 3 arch angel challenges are still locked.
...I have the exact same problem.
The first of those 2 should unlock at Warrant Officer.  AAoHu is supposed to unlock at 1st Lieutenant.  The only thing I'd can say right now is to double check your player info pages.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: runequester on July 22, 2013, 11:19
Double checked and it definately says Warrant Officer under player info. Next rank is 2nd Lieutenant.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: runequester on July 22, 2013, 23:45
So I just made 2nd Lieutenant, and that unlocked it. Seems the wiki is just incorrect then
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on July 23, 2013, 10:13
Just 16 more posts for you and you've won the privilege of correcting the mistakes yourself :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: singalen on August 14, 2013, 14:47
Does
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
count as knife? I know it sounds stupid, but I don't want to spoil a medal.
edit: Looks like it does not, as I didn't get my Strongman Gold, not even Silver :((( And I never held anything but a knife, except for breaking a wall in The Vaults.
Or was it because some enemies died from a friendly fire/barrels/lava?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: 2birds1stone on August 14, 2013, 20:23
Does
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
count as knife? I know it sounds stupid, but I don't want to spoil a medal.
edit: Looks like it does not, as I didn't get my Strongman Gold, not even Silver :((( And I never held anything but a knife, except for breaking a wall in The Vaults.
Or was it because some enemies died from a friendly fire/barrels/lava?
'Knife' means the weapon 'combat knife' and its assemblies. Other blades don't count.

Also, I'm pretty sure (though not 100% sure) that the game just checks what weapon you're holding when an enemy dies and attributes the kill to that.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Moonshine Fox on August 18, 2013, 09:54
I've searched this forum, google and the wiki, but I can't seem to find the answer I'm looking for. What are the following acronyms for?

YASD? (Yet Another Stupid Death?)
YAAM?
YAVP?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on August 18, 2013, 10:37
YASD - Yet Another Stupid Death
YAAM - Yet Another Ass-kicking Marine (100% kills win)
YAVP - Yet Another Victory Post (Regular win)
YAFW - Yet Another Full Win (Killing JC, usually superceded by YAAM if 100% kills as well)

See also the Mortem rules (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,561.0.html).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on August 31, 2013, 09:53
So, I'm new, and I've burned through 50 Doomguys so far. My 3 highest scores are all at the same level: Hell's Armory. How the hell do I beat the dual Shamblers? I've tried explosives in my first run (With a Napalm launcher, was before I found out they're resilient against explosions and invincible against liquids), a Survivalist specced Marine in the second (Ate through me like butter), and a Shottyhead (Almost, one more level and I could've picked it) Scout.

Can't even kill one of them, is there something in the chamber they spawn out of that I can use?

I'm on the medium difficulty, I think, Hey, Not Too Rough.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on August 31, 2013, 10:15
So, I'm new, and I've burned through 50 Doomguys so far. My 3 highest scores are all at the same level: Hell's Armory. How the hell do I beat the dual Shamblers? I've tried explosives in my first run (With a Napalm launcher, was before I found out they're resilient against explosions and invincible against liquids), a Survivalist specced Marine in the second (Ate through me like butter), and a Shottyhead (Almost, one more level and I could've picked it) Scout.

Can't even kill one of them, is there something in the chamber they spawn out of that I can use?

I'm on the medium difficulty, I think, Hey, Not Too Rough.

Try a Army of the Dead Marine, preferably armed with a double shotgun. Come close to them and blast away, don't reload manually - use move-reloading instead. Running tactics help to give you some extra dodging edge.
Be sure to employ cornershooting as much as possible.
Their damage type is plasma - wear a blue armor or something that confers plasma resistance.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Juice on August 31, 2013, 10:58
Or alternatively, just skip Hells Armory alltogether :-)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on August 31, 2013, 11:37
Ah, that was a very nasty surprise for me, too (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6171.0.html), the first time I ran into them - luckily I got a lot of good advice.

Besides the MAD, which does indeed work like a charm, I can highly recommend a melee build, too.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on August 31, 2013, 12:18
Thanks for the advice, especially about the blue armor.

And I can't skip Hell's Armory(Oops, apparently it's not called Hell's Armory. I dunno, I thought it was. The one with the dual shamblers. :P) and say I have balls, I'm gonna abuse myself as a new player.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on August 31, 2013, 12:29
Oops, apparently it's not called Hell's Armory. I dunno, I thought it was. The one with the dual shamblers. :P)

It's Deimos Lab, but you're forgiven ;)

And there's no shame in skipping a level or two. With this attitude you'll be burning another 50x50 Doomguy before you finish the Unholy Cathedral, let alone the Mortuary. Take your time to get familiar with the game first, once you get confident in your abilities, start expanding your horizon.

Though half of the people here will tell you otherwise, of course... :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on August 31, 2013, 14:20
Well, I come from Dwarf Fortress so I'm all like "TRIAL BY FIRE YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH". If only Doom originally came out with futuristic maces. I love me some maces.

It's amazing how Roguelikes can take horrible mechanics in most games and make them the star feature and actually fun.

So, went Malicious Blades, but when I got to the staircase to take me to Deimos's Lab, it took me to Hell's Armory instead, with just one Shambler. Did I skip something or is it random? I managed to get to the Wall before my inexperience of remembering to use phase capsules killed me. On the bright side, I actually only went through 42 Doomguys to get that far. Is this a normal "Progress" or am I slow or fast?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on August 31, 2013, 14:29
Some of the special levels are paired, meaning you get either of the two on any given run. Hell's Armory (1 Shambler) and Deimos Lab (in stereo) are one such example.

As to slow/fast progress: look at some of the post mortems on the forum, and look at the win/death ratios, especially where first wins are concerned. My very first win came in about 20 games, iirc, but that's mainly because I used to quit before getting killed when things weren't going well enough to my tastes.

I think number of Doomguys sent to their deaths means... well... nothing, really. It's too variable.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on August 31, 2013, 14:34
I think number of Doomguys sent to their deaths means... well... nothing, really. It's too variable.

Yeah, totally not suggesting that dying more = More skill. I was thinking getting that far after 42 attempts, don't know if that's average or slow or what, ya know?

But yeah, thanks for the tip on paired levels.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on August 31, 2013, 19:09
Hell's Armory doesn't have two shamblers, it only has one.  You're referring to the other paired level.

Try to isolate one of them and then blasting the hell out of them with a shotgun at close range if shotguns are your thing.  Beating most enemies can be usually reduced to the following mantra:
Title: Acronyms for Noobs
Post by: Cacodemon_hugs on September 01, 2013, 07:37
Hi, I'm what is known in gaming circles as a n00b.
Nevertheless, I got turned on to DoomRL just a little bit ago, and am enamored with the gameplay as well as the nostalgia that playing it made me feel when I started.
Soon after I started really trying to figure this game out, I found the forums.
Only, Holy-good-golly-giraffe-o-bots are there an enormous amount of acronyms that these users post.
I'm sure with careful consideration, I could hide behind my screen and try to decode them. Likely, not as difficult as I'd be anticipating, but certainly a whole lot less fun than creating my first post. I've easily discovered that the Angel games are referred to akin their names, but I'm not sure of most the others I see floating around.
Plus, I thought an easily found post would be a great thing (for n00bies like myself) to find.
Unless there already is one, in which case, curse my rotten inabilities!
Title: Re: Acronyms for Noobs
Post by: thelaptop on September 01, 2013, 08:05
Alright, there are three classes of acronyms, in-game, post-mortem and nicknames.

I'm going to leave this here for a bit, and then probably merge this with the Quick Questions thread.  Part of joining a forum is to lurk to learn the lingo, and in our case, since we are based around some games, most of the lingo comes from there.  =)
Title: Re: Acronyms for Noobs
Post by: Klear on September 02, 2013, 04:50
Hi and welcome!

I'd like to add that the acronyms of master traits are a bit unintuitive in that they are always preceded my M for master, so MVm is Vampyre, MAD is Army of the Dead, MSc is Scavenger etc. And you can check out a lot of stuff on the wiki (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Traits#Master_Traits).

There are obviously spoilers galore there, depending on what you consider a spoiler. For example, I decided never to look up the different before discovering them myself, though most of the people here do. (and despite having a couple of diamonds, I still don't know most of the master assemblies).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on September 02, 2013, 04:55
Personally, I've skipped the unchained court (the version after beating Hell's Arena), Mortuary and Lava Pits on most of my runs until I was able to beat the game on UV most of the time. Oh, and the Unholy Cathedral. I rarely venture there outside a dedicated melee build.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on September 02, 2013, 20:32
OK, so I went into Hurt Me Plenty with the intention of going MCe (I think that's the Cateye shorthand :P). This all changed when on level 4 I met Ms. Nuclear Plasma Rifle. That changed things up. I stuck an agility mod on it (Might've been a bit too quick on that one), and now I'm planning to grab Juggler to switch to another rapidfire when it needs to recharge, and grab Whizkid so I can mod it out (No idea if I can assemble it into anything).

Should I keep going to grab MCe (Currently have a level of EE, a level of Int, and 2 levels of SoB), or should I use the chance to try out a masterless build with all these extra traits I want? (Or just, you know, postpone the master trait, but maybe keeping TaN or Rel open would benefit).

Also thinking of plopping two bulk mods on the Plasma rifle, but no idea if it can assemble into something or if power/agility/etc might be better.

Of course, I'll treat any posts as recommendations, not follow it blindly. I think what I want to know if any of these options are "God awful bad" or "Stupidly fun" rather than "The most optimal".

Edit: Just entered one of those rooms that usually contain a ton of demons or lost souls with goodies, got a Onyx armor and a Nano pack. Holy crap all stuff I've never had. o-o
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on September 02, 2013, 21:33
MCe is a very useful general purpose Master -- that extra two range of sight can allow you to snipe things, for various definitions of snipe.

If you want to do masterless, remember to be willing to switch weapons depending on the situation.

And don't worry.  What the RNG giveth, the RNG taketh away...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on September 02, 2013, 21:58
MCe is a very useful general purpose Master -- that extra two range of sight can allow you to snipe things, for various definitions of snipe.

If you want to do masterless, remember to be willing to switch weapons depending on the situation.

And don't worry.  What the RNG giveth, the RNG taketh away...

Yeah, I just entered City of Skulls for the first time (This rifle and onyx armor has gotten me farther on hard mode than a tactical shotgun on medium). I have nothing but two plasma rifles, one with recharge only ammo and the other with very limited plasma cells. I'm on top of the lever. I know I ought to just skip it, but I can't. Gotta test it out. D:

I had no right surviving that. I suppose I should be thankful for the 6 small medpacks I had refreshing my tactics so I could spam Arena Master's Staff.

That said, if since I survive this, I wonder if I should triple power this onyx armor for my all around one.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on September 02, 2013, 22:09
You need at least 2 kinds of weapons: general killing weapon, and one area control weapon that may be close ranged (shotgun) or far ranged (rocket launcher and family).

Masterless is literallyb about juggling those two kinds of weapons for the situations that you are meeting.  City of Skulls with Plasma rifles is doable, but you better have good reloading and ridiculously fast firing speeds.

If not, Phase devices are almost mandatory.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on September 02, 2013, 22:13
You need at least 2 kinds of weapons: general killing weapon, and one area control weapon that may be close ranged (shotgun) or far ranged (rocket launcher and family).

Masterless is literallyb about juggling those two kinds of weapons for the situations that you are meeting.  City of Skulls with Plasma rifles is doable, but you better have good reloading and ridiculously fast firing speeds.

If not, Phase devices are almost mandatory.

Nah, had one but abused Arena Master's Staff (Check my edited post). Probably used too many medpacks but kept me alive.

That said, I do think I'm gonna keep this missile launcher I found after killing them all, and go masterless but grab intuition 2 to supplement for it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on September 03, 2013, 00:16
...stuff about experimental run...

Better post that mortem once you're done, I wonder how it ended. Nevermind, found it. Re: plasma guns: I've found they eat through ammo at an insane rate, the couple of times I tried working with one. Personally, I'd only plan on using one again on a MAc build (or possibly as a backup weapon on something like MSh).

And indeed, both masterless builds and master traits have their pros and cons. As long as you do at least a little thinking ahead, you can easily change course during a run if you feel like it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on September 03, 2013, 02:00
I would strongly advise you to go for a master trait as soon as possible. Most of them are really that good.

Using the staff against lost souls is kinda suboptimal, since it deals fire damage which the lost souls resist, but if it worked, who am I to argue with it? In any case, if you feel like experimenting with special levels (and you probably should, since you don't know them all yet), be sure to have a homing phase handy to make a quick escape if things go badly... not every special level can be escaped easily...

Oh, and bulk mod on a nuclear plasma rifle is a good idea, since it allows you to shoot more before waiting to recharge.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on September 03, 2013, 05:40
Here's a quick question - I was looking at the cybie entry on the wiki and holy shit - they can use items? Does that mean cybies can equip armours on Ao100? Man, that's a scary thought.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on September 03, 2013, 05:54
Here's a quick question - I was looking at the cybie entry on the wiki and holy shit - they can use items? Does that mean cybies can equip armours on Ao100? Man, that's a scary thought.
I believe that his "hunts player precisely" overrides his hunting for armor.
But the thought is damn scary ...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on September 03, 2013, 06:01
I believe that his "hunts player precisely" overrides his hunting for armor.
That sounds like something we need to test more thoroughly, like, on a very serious note.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on September 03, 2013, 06:07
I would strongly advise you to go for a master trait as soon as possible. Most of them are really that good.

Yeah, I know that much, but I was thinking; With Finesse, I could kill a ~2 mobs before they could fire back, like Barons of Hell, which I never really experienced before with rapid fire weapons. I wonder if I maxed out Reloader, Finesse, went scout and did anything else for fire time, how effective that would be.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Klear on September 03, 2013, 07:29
I'm not sure about the exact numbers, but I think EE and SoB (Eagle Eye/Son of a Bitch) are better to boost your rapid-fire DPS, and as an added bonus, they are required for Cateye. Additionally, while Fin might allow you to shoot more bursts in the same time, SoB allows you to kill enemies in less bursts, which not only gives you the same effect, but also saves ammunition. Personally I take finesse only when I need WK (Whizkid) most of the time.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on September 03, 2013, 09:57
I'm not sure about the exact numbers, but I think EE and SoB (Eagle Eye/Son of a Bitch) are better to boost your rapid-fire DPS, and as an added bonus, they are required for Cateye. Additionally, while Fin might allow you to shoot more bursts in the same time, SoB allows you to kill enemies in less bursts, which not only gives you the same effect, but also saves ammunition. Personally I take finesse only when I need WK (Whizkid) most of the time.

Of course, I wouldn't really want to skip SoB or EE, I'm just thinking about a if I get deep enough where I'll have the levels to get both EE/SoB as well as Fin and Reloader.
Title: Re: Acronyms for Noobs
Post by: Cacodemon_hugs on September 03, 2013, 14:53
Thank you both for the information!
I'm glad to now have a seemingly comprehensive list of acronyms, to be able to reference easily, all in one place.

thelaptop:
I'll be sure to do some more lurking! I'm at the beginning of an interesting learning curve, concerning the game, and am doing my best to navigate it with optimum success. I still haven't obtained a win past an [E|YAVP] but am already becoming eager to engage in N! games with success.

Klear:
Thank you for the Hail! I also really appreciated your note concerning DoomRL and ChaosForge acronyms.
I don't know how far I'll make it on my path toward Diamonds, but I'm trying not to read (and spoil) too much of what I haven't yet experienced in the game.

For now, I'll delve into the forum's files to hopefully uncover some further information that I'm thirsting for.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on September 05, 2013, 03:45
Merged request for "Acronyms for Noobs" into Quick Questions.

Note: that thread does not actually contain a list of acronyms.  Play the game more and lurk more on the forums to learn the lingo of the game.

Better yet, contribute to the Wiki with a nice list of acronyms if you can.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Amatsu on September 05, 2013, 14:01
I'm a newbie. I get my ass kicked by the Arena Master it's not funny. Could someone please tell me some strategies? Also there are so many abreviations, that it's not funny. What is the 666 level UV?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on September 05, 2013, 16:50
Amatsu, are you trying to troll here?  You've been on the forums long enough that you should be used to the abbreviations by now, if not, I suggest reading more mortems and possibly reading the Wiki.

You should also check out the various strategy guides that have been lurking about.  Thomas' guide, Sylph's addendum and dtsund's beginner's guide are all out there.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ParaSait on September 05, 2013, 18:51
I'm a newbie. I get my ass kicked by the Arena Master it's not funny. Could someone please tell me some strategies? Also there are so many abreviations, that it's not funny. What is the 666 level UV?
DoomRL isn't supposed to be funny.
DoomRL is srs bsns. ಠ_ಠ
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Amatsu on September 07, 2013, 04:08
Amatsu, are you trying to troll here?  You've been on the forums long enough that you should be used to the abbreviations by now, if not, I suggest reading more mortems and possibly reading the Wiki.

You should also check out the various strategy guides that have been lurking about.  Thomas' guide, Sylph's addendum and dtsund's beginner's guide are all out there.


I created this account to ask stuff regarding BerserkRL. This week I started to get into DoomRL.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on September 13, 2013, 21:12
Does the Spider Mastermind really do plasma damage despite the bullet sounds? Don't want to put on a plasma shield at the end of a good run and get totally wasted to find out.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on September 13, 2013, 21:33
Yeah, even the Spider Mastermind's description says something along the lines of "lacking the plasma gun, instead we gave it a big ass superchaingun"
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on September 13, 2013, 22:04
The quote comes directly from the description in Doom. All of the monsters that arn't original, such as the shambler, nightmare demons, etc. All have original descriptions.

But the wiki lists it as plasma damage and i've seen a few mortems where people have worn plasma shields, which leads me to ask.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: singalen on September 14, 2013, 07:37
It does plasma damage.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on September 14, 2013, 19:30
According to the wiki:

(http://puu.sh/4rwDZ/e0563210a3.png)

Can someone confirm this to be the case? If Berserker gave 20 actions of berserk effect every 4 melee hits, then I wouldn't be dying so much on AoB. Same for the berserk on damage.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on September 14, 2013, 20:21
I believe the Wiki is somewhat outdated, I've heard things around the forums hinting that it's actually based on damage done or something. Same with taking hits.


My question: I see an invincibility globe and the stairs to the UC literally 5 steps away.

I have 2 nukes.

If I nuke the UC, will the melee weapon that spawns be destroyed as well?

Edit: Got impatient. Huzzah, new spear. :D
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thomas on September 15, 2013, 00:05
According to the wiki:

(http://puu.sh/4rwDZ/e0563210a3.png)

Can someone confirm this to be the case? If Berserker gave 20 actions of berserk effect every 4 melee hits, then I wouldn't be dying so much on AoB. Same for the berserk on damage.

Just tested it - attacking four times in quick succession is guaranteed to make you go berserk. If you wait too long between attacks it seems to reset the counter.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on September 15, 2013, 21:46
Apologies if Double Posting is bad even with the lack of activity, i'll delete my earlier post if that's the case. Didn't see anything in the rules about it and seeing as we're not as active as some forums @_@...

Recently got the BFG for the first time in 9.9.7 and slapped a power mod on it. However, it seemed really underpowered. It didn't kill Vs, Ms, or Rs, and despite shooting and hitting Cybie like 6 times didn't even come close to half killing him. Now, I realize weapon damage is based on rolls, but has anyone else had any experiences with the BFG like that? It makes me question how good it is and how good the upgrades/unique BFGs are. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on September 15, 2013, 21:55
Yes it is bad form.  Don't double post, especially if you are going to post an addendum a couple of hours later to an existing reply.

If it is a different topic for a rapid rambling thread like this one, it is fine, but for goodness sake, wait for a reply to the current "quick question" before firing off another one.

/me puts on his Boots and gets ready for some serious stomping action
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on September 15, 2013, 22:03
You are confusing me so much. :c!

Better to just make a blanket no double posting statement.

As for the stomping...Ooh, senpai, don't stomp on there~

Question should still stand though. Dumb people ask lots of questions.

Edit: It was nearly 24 hours, not a few. S-senpai ;_; OTL
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on September 16, 2013, 06:12
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/381/683/497.png) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byq4iRZq5ts)

The picture is clickablllllllle.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on September 17, 2013, 18:56
Does anyone have general tips for the Hard chained court on UV/N? It seems to be a huge stumbling block for me unless i've had godly RNG luck up to that point.

Particular trouble points:

-Barons coming in and blowing up my berserk packs/healing
-Arena master camping beyond LOS and just resurrecting things all day. I don't have infinite ammo, especially if i'm doing a shotgun run. (And unless on a challenge i'm usually using shotguns at that point even on other challenges).
-Arena master resurrecting barons. Trying to knock their corpses back into the lava is difficult for me, and he seems to hover within res range of them.
-Arena master doing 500d1 arch-vile attacks

Basically, I suck and i'm not prepared for this, i've been doing lots of runs to try different strategies and nothing's worked for me so far. On M and H it's still a total joke and can grab the 2 packs + chainsaw and just running riot to the arena master, but on UV I get perforated by chaingunners and barons are hard to cornershoot from the awkward position.

There's no strategy guide on the wiki. A search of the forums revealed this this topic (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,3994.0.html), which didn't reveal anything that I didn't already know strategy wise, and running straight at him isn't viable on UV as I said earlier. Even worse on N!.

[urlhttp://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,4966.msg40179.html#msg40179]This topic[/url] gave some more insight into it, but it was again around 0.9.9.2 - and doesn't help with UV and N!.

Does anyone have some general advice they can share? I'd greatly appreciate it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on September 17, 2013, 23:26
Aki, just one piece of advice - use that rocket launcher you received in the Arena (unless you're AoB/AoMr/AoSh, of course). Either you can dispose of the baron corspes quite safely, leaving you only with formers, or it allows you to quickly rocketjump all the way to the Master and then charging him with the chainsaw.

Charging straight at the Master without the RL is possible if you pick up the chainsaw and at least one more berserk pack for extra duration - you can then kill the Master while still zerking. But then, expect a quite a fight when cleaning up the rest of the open floor - have some medpacks and some spare armor at hand, if only to recharge running.

Also note that the Master attack does plasma damage - blue armor and berserk resists help a lot here.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on September 17, 2013, 23:42
I didn't even think of gibbing the corpses or using the RL on the baron! Or rocketjumping, for that matter! I always hoarded the rockets for some reason >_>....

Which is funny, because I just did the wall and used the very same rocket launcher to gib barons there so the viles didn't res them.

Gee, that's painfully obvious. Thanks very much.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: WanderingNewbie on September 27, 2013, 09:29
Quick question, I've been playing 0.9.9.6 for a bit now and I just randomly checked the page to see whats up and see that there is a new version.  Is there a way to update to 0.9.9.7 and not lose all my stat progress?  Because I'm super bad at the game and would prefer to keep what little progress I have made at earning Medals, hahaha.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on September 27, 2013, 09:43
Just copy score.wad and player.wad over from your older version to the newer version after you install it.

Oh, copy the mortem directory over too if you want to preserve records of your old exploits.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: WanderingNewbie on September 27, 2013, 11:35
Now that I've decided to start playing the game again, I might start to aim for some of the medals, what are some good tips for doing speedruns?  I'm looking at the beat the game in 30 minutes medal.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on September 27, 2013, 11:41
AoPc with wild abandon.  Fastest game to play.  Second fastest: AoRA.

I don't think you have the stomach to go Sereging at this stage, considering that you did mention transferring the badges you got in the previous version.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on September 27, 2013, 12:03
what are some good tips for doing speedruns?

This may sound harsh, but the best one I know is 'learn how to play the game at normal speed'. When you start doing speedruns, you need to at least not be easily surprised by what the game throws at you anymore.

If you're looking to improve your skills and earn medals, I can highly recommend going for the bronze and silvers badges related to the different challenges.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: WanderingNewbie on September 27, 2013, 12:53
Oh I understand trust me, I've been working on Angle of Marksmen Silver in my downtime, its just I was looking at the fact that 30 minute standard clear was a bronze and I couldn't fathom how, as the description said, a standard low skill player could get that, so I was wondering if there were some key mechanics that are used in a speed run clear.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on September 27, 2013, 13:55
Well, not so much the mechanics, methinks, as a couple of things you can rely on. If I were to attempt another speedrun, it'd be something like this:

1) Start as a Scout, since you can see the stairs at every level.
2) Start with Brute. You'll want Berserker a.s.a.p. DO NOT - by design or accident - take any levels in Ironman. You'll lose the game.
3) Run! Pick up any armor, medkit and phase you can find. Grab a shotgun to help yourself get to the Chained Court. Grab the Chainsaw.
4) Run! Some more! Use the run function a lot, especially if you're close to the stairs, since it'll give you an advantage on your enemies and your 'tired' will be reset to 'cautious' once you descend.
5) Know which special levels are death traps and which ones you can immediately escape from (ie you're spawned right next to the stairs).
6) When you're done running, chainsaw Spidey to death.

That's about it, I think.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on September 27, 2013, 14:13
5) Know which special levels are death traps and which ones you can immediately escape from (ie you're spawned right next to the stairs).

Do you consider Spider's Lair to be a death trap (for speedrunning purposes)?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on September 27, 2013, 14:17
Don't recall if the stairs are readily available. If they are, and you're running, you probably have enough of a headstart to escape more or less unscathed. Don't know if I'd gamble on it, though.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on September 27, 2013, 16:49
When I asked that question I thought the stairs were a little bit outside of the normal LOS.
Turns out, not really.

So I guess to answer my own question: Spider's Lair is probably a death trap for speedrunning, unless you have armor that has high plasma resist, like a powered blue armor or an energy vest/shield.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on September 27, 2013, 19:08
5) Know which special levels are death traps and which ones you can immediately escape from (ie you're spawned right next to the stairs).
The safe ones are Wall/Containment, Deimos Lab/Armory, Lava Pits/Erebus, and Cathedral.  You can start Arena if you want, but don't complete it, or you'll be stuck in Chained Court till all are dead.  You'll NEED the Chainsaw. 

Other things to try:
 - Change a few settings in config, like MorePrompt and RunOverItems to False and True in the config.  This will let you skip over annoying Enter prompts and excessive keypresses while doing the speedrun.
 - ',' to "Fast Walk" (it says run in game, but it's confusing when tactics changing is also run), which lets you move around faster and will stop automatically if you step next to something or enemies come in sight.  It's equivalent to hitting the movement keys repeatedly.  If RunOverItems is True, you'll only stop in front of doors, reaching stairs, bumping walls and other obstacles, or in the presence of enemies.
 - Console mode has a shorter delay on animations than Graphics mode, especially is you change the RunDelay.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on September 28, 2013, 20:41
A few early game questions and one late-game (Was going to post a new topic, but was hoping someone could look in here)

I've tried for about 30 hours of actual ingame time and more thinking time but haven't come up with a solution to any of these issues.

The first is Hell Knights on floor 3 of AoB/AoMr. You don't have anything decent to tackle them with at this stage, at least that i'm aware of.

For AoMr, even without the HK having armor and SoG 2 (Best scenario at dlev 2), you're going to need 9 shots on average to kill a hell knight, and with their 110% speed you can't run rings around them at that stage. Even with a scout, at best you'll match them move for move (I'm not sure if their 110% speed is at 0.91 or rounds down to 0.9), and if you spawn in a level with 2-3 HKs then running to get away from them isn't a viable option. In addition, trying to cornershoot them doesn't always work, because for some reason unlike Cacos and Mancubi, instead of moving down to hug the wall to get closer to you they tend to move out in the open so they can shoot you. This behavior also applies to Revs, Viles, and Barons, but they're less of a problem.

For AoB, you can gift-drop and lure them so you don't have to deal with their projectile attack (unless you start in a wide open space), but then you still have to face them in melee and get torn apart by their base +6 accuracy (so on UV/N! running does nothing) 1d3+6. You can't run circles around them with a combat knife again, because of their speed.

Both of these also apply to demons but to a lesser extent - it's much easier to deal with demons on AoMr because of their AI and demons are only 25 hp with 1d3+5.

I don't think it's just up to the RNG and has something to do with my lack of skill as a player, so does anyone have any tips?

How do you deal with corpses on Nightmare? What i've tried to do earlygame is just pool them into one area but I haven't had much luck reliably stacking them - they don't go where I want them to go and you can't gib them with rockets because you don't have a rocket launcher. You *can* get one from the arena but that still means you have to do the arena first - which requires you to deal with mid-tier enemies.

I recall the arena spawning on floor 3 during one game of 0.9.9.7. I believe that it's fixed on 2 now because that's what the wiki says and I recall all the other levels being fixed, so is my memory simply failing me? Just checking.

A final question: How do you combat knife throw the AoD to death? I've thought about it and the notion of having more runspeed then it makes sense, but I can't practically see how you could within the small space of the cathedral and the angel pursuing you directly (meaning diagonal movement), making it hard to circle it to pick up your knife.

Any help is much appreciated because i've been mulling over these for ages and have made absolutely no progress.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on September 28, 2013, 20:50
Oi.  Wrong thread.  This is for quick questions -- you are not asking a quick question, you are asking a stack of them.

Post it in another thread.  =.=
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Moonshine Fox on September 29, 2013, 17:34
"Hell just froze over..." and all the walls are blue. Aside from the blue walls, does this actually MEAN anything?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on September 29, 2013, 17:37
"Hell just froze over..." and all the walls are blue. Aside from the blue walls, does this actually MEAN anything?
They'll break from any damage type, not just acid/fire/plasma.  Be careful cornershooting with a shotgun, or you'll blow your cover apart.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on September 29, 2013, 19:26
Does the Lava Elemental's attack work like a Revenant's attack in that it hits the square it aims for rather then flies by like a projectile? If so, how are you supposed to beat it without damage (or a BFG), since it's 2 radius?

On certain runs and certain games I can sidestep the attack of an Archvile - in other words, I move more then one square away from where it was aiming and the attack passes harmlessly. On certain other games that doesn't work - the attack "tracks" me (Yes, even with the same movespeed). For example: if the screen looked like this:

Code: [Select]
V....@....#
And it targeted me with an attack, and I took 2 steps backwards on one game, the attack would go like this:

Code: [Select]
V...*.*@..#
And I would be safe. However, on the other games, if I tried to do the same thing, this would happen:

Code: [Select]
V....@....#
"The Archvile raises his arms!"

Code: [Select]
V.....@...#
Code: [Select]
V....*x@..#
With the explosion occuring at the small X - and my player character getting hit.

I was thinking that it had to do with either Dodgemaster or MGk, but I could be wrong.

Yes, I know it's a long post but the questions are relatively quick to answer if you know the answers.

Any help would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on September 30, 2013, 00:32
"Hell just froze over..." and all the walls are blue. Aside from the blue walls, does this actually MEAN anything?
Yep, it does - walls at this level can be damaged and destroyed by anything (bullets, shells, even melee).
Among other effects, it makes shotgun-cornershooting far less reliable, as you destroy your cover almost instantly.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: IronBeer on September 30, 2013, 00:32
(questions)
For your first question, I'm not sure. I *think* the Lava Elemental's attack behaves like a Revenant's attack. Generally speaking, blast attacks can be difficult to evade. That actually brings me to the second question.

In short: it's all about speed. (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Time)
In a-bit-longer-but-actually-more-to-the-point: Arch-Viles (and Revenants, on a related note) are not technically affected by dodging. Yes, Fireangel will let you laugh off their attacks, but that's kind of a special case. (I'm working off of memory for this next bit not having played DoomRL for a bit, but I'm pretty sure I've got this right)- Arch-Viles will target a particular tile when they initiate their attack. They need about two turns their time to complete their attack, and having 130% speed, or about 4 actions for every 3 of yours, they are very good at firing their attack with you still in range. The only way to properly avoid an Arch-Vile's attack is to have a high enough movespeed to move two tiles from the targeted tile before the Arch-Vile can finish charging. I don't know what the exact minimum speed value is, but you need to be pretty quick to pull this off.

To crib from your own diagrams, this is sorta how it should look:

"The Archvile raises his arms!" The tile you are standing on is now targeted.
Code: [Select]
V.....@...#

You move one tile to the right before the Arch-Vile can finish charging. He hasn't reacted yet.
Code: [Select]
V.....X@..#

You move one more tile to the right and just barely clear the blast area as the Arch-Vile gets his second move.
Code: [Select]
V....*X*@.#

Hope this helps!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on September 30, 2013, 00:56
For your first question, I'm not sure. I *think* the Lava Elemental's attack behaves like a Revenant's attack. Generally speaking, blast attacks can be difficult to evade. That actually brings me to the second question.

That's kinda stupid - Without MFa, how are you going to be dodging a homing attack with a *2* square radius? That's assuming that you can sidestep the blast from a revenant attack - I believe that the rocket explodes on the same turn it's fired, meaning that even with baseline movespeed you won't be able to "dodge" it.

I don't even know. ;_;

In short: it's all about speed. (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Time)
In a-bit-longer-but-actually-more-to-the-point: Arch-Viles (and Revenants, on a related note) are not technically affected by dodging. Yes, Fireangel will let you laugh off their attacks, but that's kind of a special case. (I'm working off of memory for this next bit not having played DoomRL for a bit, but I'm pretty sure I've got this right)- Arch-Viles will target a particular tile when they initiate their attack. They need about two turns their time to complete their attack, and having 130% speed, or about 4 actions for every 3 of yours, they are very good at firing their attack with you still in range. The only way to properly avoid an Arch-Vile's attack is to have a high enough movespeed to move two tiles from the targeted tile before the Arch-Vile can finish charging. I don't know what the exact minimum speed value is, but you need to be pretty quick to pull this off.

To crib from your own diagrams, this is sorta how it should look:

"The Archvile raises his arms!" The tile you are standing on is now targeted.
Code: [Select]
V.....@...#

You move one tile to the right before the Arch-Vile can finish charging. He hasn't reacted yet.
Code: [Select]
V.....X@..#

You move one more tile to the right and just barely clear the blast area as the Arch-Vile gets his second move.
Code: [Select]
V....*X*@.#

Hope this helps!
[/quote]

So it is actually a speed issue. Okay, thanks, I must have been imagining it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: IronBeer on September 30, 2013, 12:40
That's kinda stupid - Without MFa, how are you going to be dodging a homing attack with a *2* square radius? That's assuming that you can sidestep the blast from a revenant attack - I believe that the rocket explodes on the same turn it's fired, meaning that even with baseline movespeed you won't be able to "dodge" it.

I don't even know. ;_;
Revenants are difficult to fight in an open field unless you're a lot faster than them. They're fairly strong in melee as well, though a melee build that reaches a master trait (particularly Blademaster or MALICIOUS BLADES) shouldn't have a too much trouble.

One thing to remember about the Lava Elemental is that he's slow. Yes, the fireball attack will hurt, but if you really unload on him with plasma weapons (Ammochain) or really get in his grill with melee combat, he shouldn't be able to throw more than one or two fireballs.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on September 30, 2013, 17:54
Can we change malicious blades to delicious blades?

I like the idea that a Tech drinks the demon blood from his offhand knife to give him resistances.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on September 30, 2013, 18:24
I believe the name Malicious Blades is a forum reference, much like Malek's set.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on September 30, 2013, 21:04
Well I primarily meant it as a joke. :v

However: TRIVIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: WanderingNewbie on October 01, 2013, 13:30
2 quick questions:

1. If I skip special stages can I still get 100% kills?

2. What's a couple common strategies for beating extra special secret boss?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on October 01, 2013, 14:34
2 quick questions:

1. If I skip special stages can I still get 100% kills?

2. What's a couple common strategies for beating extra special secret boss?

1. You can skip special stages and still get 100% kills.

You only don't get 100% kills if you leave a level when not everything is dead. But you can leave Hell's Arena after the first or second waves are done, opt out of continuing and still get YAAM--you only won't get YAAM if you summon the next wave(s) and leave the floor.

2. Shoot at it until it dies.

Edit: I'm sorry if that's not useful, but I think it's worth trying a few times and then experimenting afterward. The easiest way is probably just have a really strong melee build and be able to berserk-steamroll everything.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: WanderingNewbie on October 01, 2013, 15:52
2. Shoot at it until it dies.

Edit: I'm sorry if that's not useful, but I think it's worth trying a few times and then experimenting afterward. The easiest way is probably just have a really strong melee build and be able to berserk-steamroll everything.

For what it's worth, I laughed.  Yeah I quickly learned today that he can't be beaten by every build it seems, pistols just can't deal with his unit creation when i went up against him.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on October 01, 2013, 16:56
For what it's worth, I laughed.  Yeah I quickly learned today that he can't be beaten by every build it seems, pistols just can't deal with his unit creation when i went up against him.

Hmm, yeah. That's not easy by any stretch. I'm not sure if I've gotten a full win above HNTR with a pistol build/AoMr.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: WanderingNewbie on October 02, 2013, 07:32
Hmm, yeah. That's not easy by any stretch. I'm not sure if I've gotten a full win above HNTR with a pistol build/AoMr.

Hahaha, funny story.  I was playing on ITYTD to get back into the grove of the game.  IDK maybe I'm just bad vov.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 02, 2013, 08:04
It's certainly possible to beat JC with pistols - I did so back in the day with Gun Kata, and I don't see why it'd be any less plausible now.

The key would be action speed and dodging for sure - JC has a maximum of 500 HP and 5 armor as well as a nasty +12 base accuracy. I believe that his summoned minions don't act for 4 seconds similar to arch-vile revives, in which case with a reasonable firing speed you'd be able to severely wound him, if not outright kill him before the minions start to move, taking into account JC has a speed of 100%. I believe he also teleports around to follow you now if you move out of his LOS (Not sure if he always did that?), so you can run from the enemies. Getting a low movespeed and firing speed is crucial, but it's certainly doable.

Doesn't make me any less scared to face him, though.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: WanderingNewbie on October 02, 2013, 09:32
Yeah my issue was I was in a SharpShooter build and with the level cap of 10ish you get in ITYTD I couldnt get an amazing movespeed.

Two new questions, been reading through the quick question thread and it made me curious about somethings.

1. What does YAFW mean, and is there a glossery of abbreviations somewhere hahaha

2. What's the best way to go about getting the full win with only knives and fists? I'd assume playing on ITYTD would be a way to go about it but outside of MMb (? I think thats the right abbreviation for Malicious Blades) and a really well moded chainsword and/or piercing blade and/or finding the Cleaver I'm not sure how else you could pull it off, of course carring a launcher or something of the sort for bosses is also an option.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on October 02, 2013, 09:46
Two new questions, been reading through the quick question thread and it made me curious about somethings.

1. What does YAFW mean, and is there a glossery of abbreviations somewhere hahaha

2. What's the best way to go about getting the full win with only knives and fists? I'd assume playing on ITYTD would be a way to go about it but outside of MMb (? I think thats the right abbreviation for Malicious Blades) and a really well moded chainsword and/or piercing blade and/or finding the Cleaver I'm not sure how else you could pull it off, of course carring a launcher or something of the sort for bosses is also an option.

1. YAFW = Yet Another Full Win
Most of the important abbreviations and shorthand can be found here (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,561.0.html).

2. MMB (Malicious Blades) is certain a way to go about it. Otherwise you can do it with Bru3, some tanking ability like good armor and Bad2+Ber.
Being able to use knives is still pretty generous though, since you can mod it and have something to deal damage with that isn't just a meaty fist.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on October 02, 2013, 09:57
2. What's the best way to go about getting the full win with only knives and fists? I'd assume playing on ITYTD would be a way to go about it but outside of MMb (? I think thats the right abbreviation for Malicious Blades) and a really well moded chainsword and/or piercing blade and/or finding the Cleaver I'm not sure how else you could pull it off, of course carring a launcher or something of the sort for bosses is also an option.

This brought to mind my first attempt at a fist-only game (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,5717.0.html).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on October 02, 2013, 10:12
This brought to mind my first attempt at a fist-only game (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,5717.0.html).

...Yup. Sounds about right.
I feel that it's borderline suicide to try to get Sunrise Iron Fist without a melee mastery that doesn't include Berserker.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: WanderingNewbie on October 02, 2013, 10:41
I'm just full of curiosity today, so I just read that there used to be an Angle of D&D mode? What was that challenge like?

EDIT: I'm tired of waiting for a response so that I don't double post so I'm just adding it onto here, Can someone break down modding for me?  Like the what can be modded and when?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 03, 2013, 02:10
Can the Dragonslayer spawn on the Vaults?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on October 03, 2013, 02:15
I'm just full of curiosity today, so I just read that there used to be an Angle of D&D mode? What was that challenge like?
Too long ago; no clue what it was.  Too lazy to source dive.

EDIT: I'm tired of waiting for a response so that I don't double post so I'm just adding it onto here, Can someone break down modding for me?  Like the what can be modded and when?
See the (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Modding:Documentation) wiki (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Modding:Tutorial) for more information.  The question may be quick, but the answer is anything but.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on October 03, 2013, 03:48
How do you handle early mazes on a difficulty of at least HMP and without Int2? Getting a maze before Military Base/Phobos Lab is more or less a free restart.

My current issues with mazes are that 1) lots of 2-wide hallways and corners make corner/radarshooting a huge waste of ammo, and 2) weird corners and hallways don't make cornershooting as safe as it normally seems to be. Maybe I just don't understand enemy AI when I'm cornershooting in the vertical direction--I almost never take damage when cornershooting horizontally these days.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on October 03, 2013, 03:54
Don't rely too much on radar shooting in mazes -- camp along an edge with preferably a chokepoint, then use WAIT for mobs to come into view.

The 2-wide hallways are designed to increase your useful vision; it used to be one wide, and it sucked bad.  Corners of two parallel hallways are very awesome chokepoints from which you can basically hold out against mobs -- you can always move towards the center wall to hide away from them temporarily as you ready your healing and what not.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 03, 2013, 04:35
Don't rely too much on radar shooting in mazes -- camp along an edge with preferably a chokepoint, then use WAIT for mobs to come into view.

Pretty much this. I find Mazes (without the barrel message anyway) to be one of the easier level types, especially with the hallways. You can simply pop in one of the edges and use it like a doorway then cornershoot your way to freedom.

You can also lure monsters one at a time by aggroing them with a radar shot and then going back to your safe corner and proceed to shoot them with impunity.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: WanderingNewbie on October 03, 2013, 07:30
Nother question in the vain of Fists and Knives only badge, is a knive something that works with MMB? or is specifically just the combat knife and chainsword?

See the (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Modding:Documentation) wiki (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Modding:Tutorial) for more information.  The question may be quick, but the answer is anything but.

Also, hahaha I ment like in game mods, like Agility and the like, hahaha, sorry for not being more specific.  I opened your link and was SUPER confused for a second.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thomas on October 03, 2013, 07:51
Guns, melee weapons, armor and boots can all be modded once each. When you get a new level of whizkid, guns can be modded twice more and everything else can be modded once more.

Guns can have up to three of the same mod, all other items can only have one of the same mod unless you're specifically making an assembly, e.g. Tactical Boots requires two agility mods on a pair of boots which is normally impossible.

Most exotic items can be modded like normal. Most unique items can't be modded, some allow one mod in special circumstances, and I think only one unique item (Cybernetic Armor) can be modded like normal. All the mods have a page on the wiki saying what they do when put on weapons or armor.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on October 03, 2013, 07:51
Nother question in the vain of Fists and Knives only badge, is a knive something that works with MMB? or is specifically just the combat knife and chainsword?

Also, hahaha I ment like in game mods, like Agility and the like, hahaha, sorry for not being more specific.  I opened your link and was SUPER confused for a second.
If you're asking about the off-hand weapons that grant the MMB trait resists and double attack, then IIRC a knife and both of it's assemblies count, as well as Butcher's Cleaver and the Subtle Knife. The last two uniques mentioned are _not_ knives though, and won't count towards the Malicious Knives badge.

For info about mod packs and modding items, check the Wiki for mods general info (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Items#Modification_Packs_.28Mods.29), and you may also be interested in the Assemblies (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Assemblies) page there. The Assemblies page contains a list of them, so if you don't want to spoil yourself, use at your own risk :).

EDIT: According to the Wiki, Azrael's Scythe also counts as a blade (but not as a knife) for MMB purposes.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 03, 2013, 09:41
Does the dragonslayer work with MMB?

Also, looking through some of 2dev's mortems he mentioned that he could make a dragonslayer spawn on a certain level. Is the requirements for making it spawn limited to that level or is there a way to make it appear once per run or on a given floor or what?

Note that I asked if it can appear, not how. Shouldnt be too much of a spoiler, right?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: WanderingNewbie on October 03, 2013, 11:43
Well, not so much the mechanics, methinks, as a couple of things you can rely on. If I were to attempt another speedrun, it'd be something like this:

1) Start as a Scout, since you can see the stairs at every level.
2) Start with Brute. You'll want Berserker a.s.a.p. DO NOT - by design or accident - take any levels in Ironman. You'll lose the game.
3) Run! Pick up any armor, medkit and phase you can find. Grab a shotgun to help yourself get to the Chained Court. Grab the Chainsaw.
4) Run! Some more! Use the run function a lot, especially if you're close to the stairs, since it'll give you an advantage on your enemies and your 'tired' will be reset to 'cautious' once you descend.
5) Know which special levels are death traps and which ones you can immediately escape from (ie you're spawned right next to the stairs).
6) When you're done running, chainsaw Spidey to death.

That's about it, I think.

I'd like to thank you LuckyDee, I was able to pull off a barely under 10 minute run thanks to your advice, if you want you can check out the mortem here http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6765.0.html .  In other news, time to step up to HNTR it seems, I might start doing streams of runs, if I were to do that where could I post it on here so that you guys could ridicule me while I screw everything up?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on October 03, 2013, 12:06
I'd like to thank you LuckyDee

Aww, shucks :)

I might start doing streams of runs, if I were to do that where could I post it on here so that you guys could ridicule me while I screw everything up?

On Youtube, spiced up with your commentary interlaced with frustrated screams, howls and groans.

Otherwise, the Post Mortem board will do fine.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evil_Lamp_6 on October 06, 2013, 18:52
Quick question: Does the nuke actually just do a shit ton of damage to everything or does it just kill everything?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on October 06, 2013, 19:09
6 metric tons of damage.  Unless I remembered it wrongly.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evil_Lamp_6 on October 06, 2013, 19:12
So theoretically with enough damage resistance, something could survive?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on October 06, 2013, 19:40
No.

Your only means of survival are either being invulnerable or being a unique item.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on October 06, 2013, 19:56
So theoretically with enough damage resistance, something could survive?
The nuke does do a finite amount of damage, but the way the damage is dealt and the way resistances work, there's no way in the regular game to attain enough resistance (that would work versus the damage the nuke deals, that is) to survive it short of invulnerability.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evil_Lamp_6 on October 06, 2013, 20:33
The nuke does do a finite amount of damage, but the way the damage is dealt and the way resistances work, there's no way in the regular game to attain enough resistance (that would work versus the damage the nuke deals, that is) to survive it short of invulnerability.
Cool.  That is more what I was going for in an answer.  Thanks to both of you though.  Next time any of you have a look, I am curious just how much damage it deals.  Thanks again in advanced.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on October 06, 2013, 21:02
Cool.  That is more what I was going for in an answer.  Thanks to both of you though.  Next time any of you have a look, I am curious just how much damage it deals.  Thanks again in advanced.
6000.  For reference, Doomguy starts with 50 HP.

I should amend my initial answer though: The nuke is finite damage to the player only.  It's instant death and destruction to (almost) everything else.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on October 06, 2013, 21:06
6000.  For reference, Doomguy starts with 50 HP.
6 metric tons == 6000 (weight unit).

That was what I meant.  But I guess the joke is lost on everyone except myself.  =(
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: shark20061 on October 06, 2013, 21:17
That was what I meant.  But I guess the joke is lost on everyone except myself.  =(
If it wasn't clear before, it is now :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on October 07, 2013, 07:17
So even if you had 95% nuke resistance, the nuke would still do 300 damage to you.

With 99%, it would do 60.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: bolt_thundara on October 07, 2013, 16:10
Hey, what's the best use for a Hellwave Pack? Just found one on a MAD run for the first time and IDK if it'd be useful or if I should ditch it. I'm on HNTR and just past Hell's Armory.

Could I use it instead of melee dmg in UC? How would that even work? Use it as close to the boss as I can get w/o dying? Or couldI use it from outside?

Maybe use it in Limbo/Mortuary for easier wins? IDK, just thoughts.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on October 07, 2013, 21:32
Effect:   Deals 20d10 fire damage in a radius of 15 around the player.


So you could probably take out all the lost souls by hand, then open the demon door, rush past them, they'll chase you to the boss door, you open it, instakill all the demons and probably severely weaken the AoD.

Lesse...

Health:   250 + 10×difficulty2 = 260, 290, 340, 410, 500
Armor:   10

So, if you're lucky, you'll do 190 against the AoD. At worse, 10, unless I'm really bad at dice notation.

So it seems better for if you're crowded by like, Hell Barons and Revenants and stuff, rather than against the AoD.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 07, 2013, 22:14
That's assuming the Hellwave pack works in the Unholy Cathedral. I haven't tried it.

As for running past the demons, you'd need to be either lucky or have some antigrav boots or something crazy like that - they swarm up against the door.

20d10 is 20 dice with 10 sides - so it would do 20-200 damage, averaging at 110.

Probably best used when you come across a harder vile pack/the mortuary.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Juice on October 08, 2013, 05:45
It does work in UC (unless I'm remembering it wrong and it will result in some hilarious yasd in the future)

But as Aki said, it's better to save it in case of gettig caught up by a vile pack or something.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on October 08, 2013, 05:55
Also, it's rules in Mortuary, basically clearing almost half the level of everything that moves, and what's maybe even more important, of everything that doesn't move as well.
By the way, a Vile has a 0.12% chance of surviving a Hellwave blast. Quite nice.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: bolt_thundara on October 09, 2013, 19:21
I currently meet the requirements for the Master trait Survivalist, but can't take it. Is it because I already have MAD?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on October 09, 2013, 19:37
I think you're only allowed one master trait.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on October 09, 2013, 19:50
Yes, only one Master trait allowed.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: bolt_thundara on October 10, 2013, 10:12
How do I find my last mortem to post here? And what's the format for posting a mortem?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on October 10, 2013, 10:28
The mortems are text files saved in the game's mortem folder. Just copy/paste the contents into a new post and apply mortem tags. See DA RULEZ on the mortem board for further advice.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: bolt_thundara on October 10, 2013, 17:47
:/ I can't find the "red skull" mortem tags button on a post...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on October 10, 2013, 18:36
And what's the format for posting a mortem?

Code: [Select]
[mortem]text[/mortem]

becomes:

text
And then you can textdump your entire mortem between the mortem tags.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 13, 2013, 16:00
Anomaly in N!. Went there during AoSh. Full of death.

Assistance please. I managed to scrape through after using all my healthpacks, run, and a lucky few turns of berserk I had. The N! enemies in it are just too fast.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: 2birds1stone on October 13, 2013, 16:36
Anomaly in N!. Went there during AoSh. Full of death.

Assistance please. I managed to scrape through after using all my healthpacks, run, and a lucky few turns of berserk I had. The N! enemies in it are just too fast.
#GottaGoFaster
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 13, 2013, 17:36
So MAD on N! is pretty much futile?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: 2birds1stone on October 13, 2013, 19:07
Phase devices are very much your friend, and they're not that rare a spawn; between them and invuln/zerk, your odds of surviving that initial ambush are actually not terrible.

Outside of that? I'm sure it's possible, but I have no idea how. Maybe I've been unusually lucky, but I've found that phases and powerups have made the Bruiser's respawns the real challenge of the Anomoly.

EDIT: I suppose that, if worst comes to worst, you can grab the two large health globes pre-ambush and try to overheal-tank your way to cover.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 13, 2013, 19:11
Phase devices are very much your friend, and they're not that rare a spawn; between them and invuln/zerk, your odds of surviving that initial ambush are actually not terrible.

Outside of that? I'm sure it's possible, but I have no idea how. Maybe I've been unusually lucky, but I've found that phases and powerups have made the Bruiser's respawns the real challenge of the Anomoly.

I'm sure it's possible too, and that's what i'm trying to find out. Phase devices rarely spawn for me and invunerability/zerk only work if they're actually on; best way of doing the zerk is of course having berserker then getting hit, but i'm trying to work out a method of coping with it.

As for the Bruisers, those would be the worst if you were going for 100% kill rate or something - but you could simply run past them, even with MAD (I did before).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: 2birds1stone on October 13, 2013, 19:13
Edited in a solution that just came to me then, not sure how workable it actually is though
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 13, 2013, 19:34
Edited a solution that just came to me then, not sure how workable it actually is though

It can work but you'd need ranks in hellrunner or tactical armor and boots - the first of which would defeat the purpose of the MAD build and the second of which is highly improbable and you might as well have zerk/invun.

Otherwise, you won't really get far without heavy damage - you can't really avoid that +8 accuracy 2d7 even with running and then the demons WILL bite you on a HR-less run. It's the best of the bad bunch, but there has to be SOME other way.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Out0fAmmo on October 15, 2013, 13:37
So I just did my second run on Ao100 as a Scout with MBm. Levels 1-60 weren't too bad, but at some point during 60s, things became much harder. I died on level 74 after using an emergency phase device which only landed me in more monsters. The thing is, I was stuck with a stupid chainsword the whole time because no chainsaws or other melee weapons aside from knives dropped (I had other weapons, of course, but ran into ammo issues).

Was I just really unlucky with the RNG, or do we really only get knives during Ao100? If that's the case, I'm questioning the potential of a melee build.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on October 15, 2013, 13:49
Well, a chainsaw is by no means guaranteed on Ao100, contrary to regular games and challenges containing the Chained Court. So just bad luck, or maybe lack of good luck.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Out0fAmmo on October 15, 2013, 13:55
Yeah, I know it's not guaranteed outside of Chained Court, but I still thought I'd get *something*. It's frustrating to be swimming in mods and have both levels of WK, and most of the assemblies that work with your master trait require a weapon that doesn't even drop.

I'm probably just gonna go MAc on the next one.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on October 15, 2013, 14:47
Yeah, we need more melee weapon bases and advanced assembles for them. :<
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 15, 2013, 19:36
I don't really think there's anything wrong with melee.

First of all - you have to take into account Ao100 is a challenge mode. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. As it is, you can already get the dragonslayer on Ao100 - while not the instawin button it was before, 9d9 + brute/berserk. Yeah.

Second, you already have the ripper which is crazily overpowered for a regular game and on Ao100/AAo666 you've a good shot at getting it. 0.5s firetime with something like MBm? Yeah...

Last of all? MMB. You think it's a joke? Think again.

Let's take a good look at it. First of all, it only blocks TaN, Bad, EE, Int, and Berserker. That's pretty generous for a master trait, allowing you to do everything except for rapid fire. Most importantly, you retain access to hellrunner (with HR 2 being one of the requirements) and Finesse/Juggler/Whizkid. This is important for extended games such as Ao100/AAo666.

Now, let's take a look at the individual benefits:

You gain a 50% internal (?) resistance to fire, bullets, and shrapnel as long as a knife is in your off-hand.

This is really only an advantage no matter which way you cut it. The only time I can see this being a disadvantage is if you have 2 shotguns and you swap between them with the 0.8s quickswap - but by the time you have enough EXP to actually pick MMB, this shouldn't really be an issue. You should have a combat/tactical shotgun or something by then.

After that you have Juggler, which allows you to quickswap with hotkeys instantly - essentially making the prepared slot only good for exotics/uniques that don't have a quickswap. But you have 50% resistances to fire/shrapnel/bullets, so who really cares?

Let's take a closer look at the resistances:

Ignoring melee, you gain 50% resistance to anything but:
-Hell Knights
-Cacodemons
-Arachnotrons
-Former Commandos
-Barons of hell
-Nightmare Imps
-Nightmare Cacodemons
-Plasma shotgun elite shotgun guys
-Laser rifle elite chaingun guys
-Tristar Blaster plasmarifle guys (Hey, I know it's not doom terminology, sue me!)
-Shamblers
-Bruiser Brothers
-Arena Masters (lol)
-Spider Masterminds.

Seems like a big list? No, not really, considering the actual spawning of these guys and the difficulty you have taking out most of them. Keep in mind that even deep into Ao100 most big packs are something like a Cyberdemon + VVMMRRB. And you get all this for nothing. For free. So stop your whining!

--

Secondly, you gain the ability to attack with a weapon in the offhand and equipped slots at once, for half the time each, as long as they're both knives.

And no, knives arn't for pansies. Let's say you have 2 chainswords (which is pretty reasonable on Ao100, PPBB) and Brute 3. That means that you're doing (8d2+9)x2 damage every 0.85s with just MMB + 1 rank in brute, which averages out to be 21 damage per knife for 42 damage per hit. Suddenly it doesn't seem so pansy anymore, right?

Oh, but I forgot that we're a Technician, so we have access to Whizkid as a basic trait, which means there's really no excuse to grab it gotta go fast. And we're on Ao100, so basic mods arn't really a problem. Let's power mod those knives - suddenly we're doing (8d3+9)x2 for 25/50 damage per hit average.

And we're also on Ao100, which means it isn't really ridiculous to plan for something like 15 traits at the very least.

WK-> WK-> HR-> HR-> DM-> Fin-> Bru-> Bru -> MBm-> Bru-> Fin/Jug-> Jug/Fin-> Bru-> Bru-> Fin

So now you're doing some kind of crazy (8d3+15)x2, which is 31/62 at 0.7 seconds. You'll be twohitting anything that's not a boss monster or a nightmare arch-vile.

And if you happen upon a berserk pack you essentially start ripping and tearing.

Oh, and one last thing - The dragonslayer counts as a blade for MMB. Have fun with that! :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on October 15, 2013, 20:18
Don't kill the newbie with overkill, Aki.  =)

That said, if anything, melee builds are actually pretty overpowered, especially so when you are not in a challenge that limits yourself to using only melee weapons.

If you are running into ammo issues, I believe it's because you are carrying too many varieties of secondary weapons and/or "useless junk".  You don't really need multiple pistols, nor should you carry pistols + chainguns + shotguns + rocket launchers + plasma rifles.  Just pick 2 to 3 of the lot -- one wall breecher, one "scouter" and one mid/long range plinker.  You should also consider moving in for the kill, given that you are specialising in melee after all.

Most weapons need additional traits to make them truly shine, so don't expect to be killing things with say the combat shotgun when you are on MBm.  You should really consider making more use of your master trait.

If you are not comfortable with a hybrid approach of using ranged weapons to scout and melee to kill, perhaps you should try a different build.  Some master traits are very overpowered, but only if you exploit them to the fullest.  If not, you'll just get YASD.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 15, 2013, 20:59
Don't kill the newbie with overkill, Aki.  =)

Haha, i'll try not to in future @_@

Quote
That said, if anything, melee builds are actually pretty overpowered, especially so when you are not in a challenge that limits yourself to using only melee weapons.

I'd say that the further the game goes on, the better melee gets. For example, the first few levels with melee are "hell". After you get the chainsaw it's not bad if you have some perks in brute, but then you actually have to close the gap to your enemies - which can get you shot up pretty bad - and then actually melee them and deal with their melee damage. After you get the LS or Scythe you can go around with your gibstick and berserking and stuff like that, but you still need to be careful - berserk isn't the invulnerability globe it once used to be, even with a good set of armor you'll find your hp drain really quickly against an archvile pack if you charge straight in. I think it would be overpowered if berserk was any more potent, but considering the amount of skill you need with it along with the investment, I don't think it is.

That's from a UV/N! perspective though, where you start encountering cacodemons and hell knights on dlevel 3. On HNTR and HMP I don't think you face anything worse then a demon until the Anomaly, and by then you'll probably be something like level 6-8 making the balance a little wonkier.

Quote
If you are not comfortable with a hybrid approach of using ranged weapons to scout and melee to kill, perhaps you should try a different build.  Some master traits are very overpowered, but only if you exploit them to the fullest.  If not, you'll just get YASD.

And that can pretty much sum up melee builds in general too - otherwise, AoB wouldn't be such a hard challenge :p
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on October 15, 2013, 21:29
So I just did my second run on Ao100 as a Scout with MBm. Levels 1-60 weren't too bad, but at some point during 60s, things became much harder. I died on level 74 after using an emergency phase device which only landed me in more monsters. The thing is, I was stuck with a stupid chainsword the whole time because no chainsaws or other melee weapons aside from knives dropped (I had other weapons, of course, but ran into ammo issues).

Was I just really unlucky with the RNG, or do we really only get knives during Ao100? If that's the case, I'm questioning the potential of a melee build.

60+ floors without seeing a Butcher's Cleaver? That ain't right.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 15, 2013, 21:44
60+ floors without seeing a Butcher's Cleaver? That ain't right.

Seems pretty right to me, I don't recall getting a cleaver in a few Ao100 games i've played and certainly not in quite a few regular wins i've done. It's all luck.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on October 15, 2013, 22:13
Seems pretty right to me, I don't recall getting a cleaver in a few Ao100 games i've played and certainly not in quite a few regular wins i've done. It's all luck.

Naw, that ain't right. I've always found a Cleaver within the first half of 100 runs.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 16, 2013, 01:06
Naw, that ain't right. I've always found a Cleaver within the first half of 100 runs.

But as I said, it's all luck - despite being able to appear even on dlevel 1, the cleaver has a weight of 2 - twice that of the dragonslayer. So past dlevel 16, you should be seeing 2 cleavers per dragonslayer.

And i've yet to see a dragonslayer.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on October 16, 2013, 01:26
But as I said, it's all luck - despite being able to appear even on dlevel 1, the cleaver has a weight of 2 - twice that of the dragonslayer. So past dlevel 16, you should be seeing 2 cleavers per dragonslayer.

And i've yet to see a dragonslayer.

YOU haven't seen a dragonslayer yet, but I have. And cleavers early on. Like all the damn time.

But yes anyway in regards to the original question, dual-wielding chainswords are sometimes the best you can do since you can't rely on the chainsaw spawning on 100 runs, just raise Brute to 5 once you get past XL 12 and throw in some Hellrunner and other support traits. Use your traits and don't always rely on gear and mod pack drops.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 16, 2013, 01:31
YOU haven't seen a dragonslayer yet, but I have. And cleavers early on. Like all the damn time.

But yes anyway in regards to the original question, dual-wielding chainswords are sometimes the best you can do since you can't rely on the chainsaw spawning on 100 runs, just raise Brute to 5 once you get past XL 12 and throw in some Hellrunner and other support traits. Use your traits and don't always rely on gear and mod pack drops.

This is exactly what i'm trying to say though! It's all luck based! >_<
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Out0fAmmo on October 16, 2013, 01:38
I would've posted the mortem, but the file's on another comp that I can't access right now. Maybe I messed up the abbreviation, but I was playing Blademaster, not Malicious Blades. I had an assault shotgun (p) with about 100 shells, a rocket launcher with 2 rocket boxes, and a VBFG 9000 that I loaded up with cells on the ground. Obviously, the shotgun became useless against armored enemies from a distance. For traits, I had HR 3, Bru 5, Int 2, WK 2, DM, Ber, Fin 2, Iro 2. I'll just have to find that mortem and post it.

 The issue became getting stuck on open levels with no cover and no way to close the distance against ranged enemies without taking hits. I had Dodgemaster, and i did my best to zigzag, but I was still taking tons of hits in the later levels from mancubi and such. Eventually I had just burned through my medpacks and only had a few phase devices. Never saw a Cleaver, or Dragonslayer, and no chainsaw mean no ripper. 8d2 all the way.

I'll probably just run a few normal games or other challenges and come back to it later.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 16, 2013, 01:43
I would've posted the mortem, but the file's on another comp that I can't access right now. Maybe I messed up the abbreviation, but I was playing Blademaster, not Malicious Blades. I had an assault shotgun (p) with about 100 shells, a rocket launcher with 2 rocket boxes, and a VBFG 9000 that I loaded up with cells on the ground. Obviously, the shotgun became useless against armored enemies from a distance. For traits, I had HR 3, Bru 5, Int 2, WK 2, DM, Ber, Fin 2, Iro 2. I'll just have to find that mortem and post it.

 The issue became getting stuck on open levels with no cover and no way to close the distance against ranged enemies without taking hits. I had Dodgemaster, and i did my best to zigzag, but I was still taking tons of hits in the later levels from mancubi and such. Eventually I had just burned through my medpacks and only had a few phase devices. Never saw a Cleaver, or Dragonslayer, and no chainsaw mean no ripper. 8d2 all the way.

I'll probably just run a few normal games or other challenges and come back to it later.

Yup, I saw that you posted Blademaster - my response was to Eyro's comment about needing to buff melee, in which I pointed to MMB.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on October 16, 2013, 04:52
For traits, I had ... Ber, ... Iro 2

Be advised that, since Berserker depends on taking damage proportionate to your max health (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Traits#Berserker), taking Ironman reduces your chances of going Berserk. I haven't bothered trying a melee build on A100, but contrary to most any other build, I'd skip Ironman in this case.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on October 16, 2013, 05:04
Good point, LD.

In practice, this means that Berserker always grants berserk effect on an Archvile attack for a char with Iro<=1 (note that Marines have an inherent Iro=1 for this purpose!). This example is happening frequently enough to make Iro 2+ rather counterproductive for melee builds.

Also note that damage taken for purpose of triggering the berserk effect is calculated _before_ applying armor and resistances. Said Vile's attack will only inflict 5 damage to someone wearing a fireproof red armour (55% fire resist and 4 protection), but still will trigger berserk.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 16, 2013, 05:22
Good point, LD.

In practice, this means that Berserker always grants berserk effect on an Archvile attack for a char with Iro<=1 (note that Marines have an inherent Iro=1 for this purpose!). This example is happening frequently enough to make Iro 2+ rather counterproductive for melee builds.

Also note that damage taken for purpose of triggering the berserk effect is calculated _before_ applying armor and resistances. Said Vile's attack will only inflict 5 damage to someone wearing a fireproof red armour (55% fire resist and 4 protection), but still will trigger berserk.

Also to note is that a scout/tech without Iro will always go berserk when poked by the Cyberdemon or Angel of Death in melee - run up into their face and smack them around a bit to enjoy the carnage.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on October 16, 2013, 06:00
Yup, I saw that you posted Blademaster - my response was to Eyro's comment about needing to buff melee, in which I pointed to MMB.


Err. I never said "buff melee".

I said we need more melee bases. The only normal melee base is the knife. For pistols, only one is the pistol. Shotgun has 3 different bases, and chainfire has 2.

And I see more Shotgun/Chainfire random specials than pistol or melee.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 16, 2013, 06:11

Err. I never said "buff melee".

I said we need more melee bases. The only normal melee base is the knife. For pistols, only one is the pistol. Shotgun has 3 different bases, and chainfire has 2.

And I see more Shotgun/Chainfire random specials than pistol or melee.

But that would be in effect buffing melee.

:D
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Out0fAmmo on October 16, 2013, 12:36
Be advised that, since Berserker depends on taking damage proportionate to your max health (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Traits#Berserker), taking Ironman reduces your chances of going Berserk. I haven't bothered trying a melee build on A100, but contrary to most any other build, I'd skip Ironman in this case.

I actually didn't know that, but I guess that makes sense. Iro 1 and 2 were the last two traits I took at lvl 19+20, since nearly everything else had been taken by that point. (I think Rel and EE were the only other ones open) and I was trying to compensate for having TaN blocked.

I guess the reason I was determined to make MBm work was because I had already won HNTR games as Vamp and MMB, so I wanted to do a run with the Scout's melee trait to get a feel for it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Eyro on October 16, 2013, 17:18
But that would be in effect buffing melee.

:D

._. Like, only if you're an uncreative developer that thinks new = more powerful.

What are unique mechanics.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on October 16, 2013, 19:23
Note that the note on the Ber/Iro interaction is a bug in 0.9.9.7 and is fixed in 0.9.9.8.

Unless I misremembered.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 16, 2013, 22:57
._. Like, only if you're an uncreative developer that thinks new = more powerful.

What are unique mechanics.

Well, let's look at it this way: If the new bases/assemblies are weaker then what you could get with a combat knife, there's not much point in the development time put into it, since you can pretty much always get a combat knife. If they're stronger then what you could get with a combat knife then it's a buff - and also a bit of a waste of development time, as you get the chainsaw on dlevel 5.

And if it's stronger then what you can get with the chainsaw...
/me looks at the ripper

Yeah, let's not go there @_@

If you're talking about Ao100, perhaps what could be done is increase the weight of the chainsaw - as it stands the min dlevel is 12 and the weight is 3, meaning that it's got about the same chance as spawning as the inquisitor's set and even less likely to spawn then a nano pack.

If that's not good enough? It's a challenge mode. >:(

Note that the note on the Ber/Iro interaction is a bug in 0.9.9.7 and is fixed in 0.9.9.8.

Unless I misremembered.

I am okay with this.

Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on October 16, 2013, 23:30
I said we need more melee bases. The only normal melee base is the knife. For pistols, only one is the pistol. Shotgun has 3 different bases, and chainfire has 2.

Technically unarmed is a melee base too, since Sunrise Iron Fist.
But personally I wouldn't mind having a better non-unique/exotic melee weapon that's a step up from the combat knife. Maybe like a...sword or something.

/me tries to imagine a Doomguy with a sword and gothic armor
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on October 17, 2013, 03:06
/me tries to imagine a Doomguy with a sword and gothic armor
Shinji_Ikari_9th? Some inspiration for another 3D render right here! :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: White Rider on October 21, 2013, 17:02
Is the splash damage from the AFJ affected by SoG? Actually, how does SoG affect AFJ? Say if I have 3 levels of SoG, MSs and using the AFJ, does it deal 18 fire damage or 15 fire damage and 3 bullet damage?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Juice on October 22, 2013, 01:00
I'd guess 18 fire dmg, but I no proof here.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Yholl on October 23, 2013, 04:13
What exactly is the tower shield meant to be? Did Doomguy strip off his red armor and fashion it into a colossal medieval styled tower shield to take on his foes? I'm implementing armors into DoomRL Arsenal, and that one is... perplexing, to say the least.

EDIT: Oh, can someone also give me pictures, or at least tell me the colors of all of the exotic armors in the game? I asked Kornel if he could help me out with that ages ago, but I assume he got sucked into the depths of Jupiter Hell around then. The wiki only lists the ASCII appearance of the armors, which I know for a fact does not match the graphical versions.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 23, 2013, 04:45
Tower Shield is an assembly, so graphically it'd just look like a red armor. Haven't found the Onyx pack to check though, but from when I dropped a few assemblies, they don't look any different in graphics mode.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: WanderingNewbie on October 23, 2013, 11:59
I got a question on health packs, I feel like in Phobos its WAY easy to get them, even if a former picks one up you can usually one shot them or kill them before they use it, the issue is once I reach Deimos and Barons and Knights are aplenty.  Are there any specific strategies you guys have for making sure you're still picking up health packs around those floors?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on October 23, 2013, 13:32
Depending on the type of game, I tend to travel carrying 3 health packs, preferably large ones. I hardly ever burn through these fast enough to worry about picking up another - and I'm not even that much of a good player. Sooner or later you'll find a replacement, be it by luck or by being able to kill a Hell Knight fast enough. In the meantime, just focus on not getting hit.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Aki on October 23, 2013, 19:12
That's probably the major weakness in my playstyle - whereas it'd be more effective to hoard rockets, I hoard medipacks instead, with up to about 8-9 slots in my inventory being filled with medipacks I carried all the way from Phobos that I don't use.

As for finding Medipacks? They're more common then you'd expect, it's just that the monsters get to them first. Unless you're TH2 SoB 5 with a plasma rifle or something you're not going to be able to stop barons from using them, and using excessive firepower will only cause the drop to go up in smoke. I'd say to play more carefully and see if you can avoid using them until you REALLY need them in later levels.

If you're wondering about finding large Medipacks, you get 1 from the arena, 2 from the Anamoly and to compensate you for even having the courage to go in there, you find 2 in the Phobos Lab. Mind you, unless you had MMB or something at that stage I wouldn't reccomend ever going in there on higher difficulty levels.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Salivanth on October 24, 2013, 08:05
Wait, you mean you're NOT supposed to carry a shit-ton of medipacks around, only to use them when you wind up in a situation where you're pretty much postponing your inevitable doom anyway? (Damn Spider's Nest)

So, two questions:

First, in a burst build, what's preferrable? SoB - SoB - TH - TH - SoB, or SoB - SoB - TH - SoB - TH?

My calculations say that for an unmodded chaingun, SoB 2 + TH 2 will give an average of 5.5*6 = 33 DPS, whereas SoB 3 + TH 1 gives an average of 6.5*5 = 32.5 DPS. Considering armor and the fact that TH 2 causes you to use more ammo, I'm guessing the extra .5 DPS is negligible.

Secondly, what are some good builds for a total noob? (I.e, ITYTD-level player, 4 Bronze Badges, never won the game.) I've narrowed it down to non-Technician builds that are Pistol, Burst, or Shotgun based, but that still leaves SIX potential master traits to go for and I always have trouble picking one during a game. I think I like Burst...I got to Deimos 6 with a burst build today, best run so far. (Bloody Spider's Nest...)

Oh fuck! I had a homing phase device in my inventory the whole time! SHI-
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on October 24, 2013, 12:13
First, in a burst build, what's preferrable? SoB - SoB - TH - TH - SoB, or SoB - SoB - TH - SoB - TH?

Depends on what you're aiming for I guess. If you're going for a Master skill, chances are the 3rd level of SOB will only come after that. Depending on how many levels of TH the Master requires... etc.

Secondly, what are some good builds for a total noob?

Anything that gives you INT 2. It allows you to see enemies before they see you, thus giving you time to think about how to approach them while you're still at an advantage. As a Scout, you can even start with INT without needing EE, and if you are going that way, might as well go for Cateye (INT-INT-SOB-SOB-TH-MCe), which extends your vision even further.
I've found this the most useful (type of) build to get to know the game.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Juice on October 24, 2013, 12:25
Either that, or go for Int2 and then for Shottyhead, the knockback from shotguns combined with cornershooting (yeah, learn how to cornershoot, if you haven't already :) will help you great deal in avoiding getting hit in general.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Yholl on October 26, 2013, 05:22
Tower Shield is an assembly, so graphically it'd just look like a red armor. Haven't found the Onyx pack to check though, but from when I dropped a few assemblies, they don't look any different in graphics mode.
You seem to have misinterpreted the questions I asked. I was asking about the concept of the Tower Shield, what it is supposed to represent, not the ingame graphic.

I was also asking about what color the exotic armors are in graphics mode, not the assembled ones. I know that the Shielded Armor is a light blue color, but I have no idea as to the rest, and the wiki only contains information on the ASCII representations of the armors.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Juice on October 26, 2013, 15:03
Generally, exotics are purple and uniques are green
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Uranium on October 26, 2013, 15:08
Generally, exotics are purple and uniques are green

He means the actual graphic. In g-mode, the ASCII colours are reflected in the outline - the actual armours have various colours.

@Yholl:
in this thread (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,5108.0.html) tinyrodent made a sandbox wad that automatically spawns all the items in the game, so you can open it in the custom games thing and look at things to your heart's content - it's in post #7

disclaimer: it might not actually work in the latest versions because the last update was for a 0.9.9.6 beta but i hope it does
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Salivanth on October 27, 2013, 02:30
What do I put in config.lua to make a keybinding into one of my numpad numbers? E.g, NumPad 7. I want to be able to move using the numpad, I tried just "1", "2", etc. but now that works for the numbers above the QWERTY row on my keyboard, not the numpad.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on October 27, 2013, 02:43
Have you tried just switching off NumLock in game?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Salivanth on October 27, 2013, 07:52
/facedesk

Thank you. That solved the problem.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Salivanth on November 01, 2013, 08:03
Thank you guys, for answering my questions. With your help and the Beginner's Guide to DoomRL, I was able to get my first win. Only ITYTD, but hey, gotta start somewhere :)

I used a fast INT 2 build as well, so thanks very much LuckyDee for suggesting that. INT 2 is insanely good.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on November 01, 2013, 12:10
/me coughs heavily... It sounds like "mortem, mortem"...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Salivanth on November 01, 2013, 22:05
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To summarise:

Using the first few minutes of a Let's Play video I watched, I learnt the art of shooting things with a shotgun before they got in range. Due to my ineptness at the art of switching between burst and shotguns, I ended up losing quite a bit more health than usual. Fortunately, this is ITYTD; I always end up with a surplus of medpacks anyway, so as long as I didn't die, it almost didn't matter how much health I lost.

Once I got the hang of it and got up to Cateye, things progressed better. I used a gatling gun and a tactical shotgun as my mid-game armaments. I cleared all the special levels up to the City of Skulls, but then decided to ignore all other special levels. (Spider's Lair, as I've found out, is an absolute nightmare. Even with a special NINETY FIVE PERCENT PLASMA RESISTANCE armor, I had to use a homing phase device to GTFO of the centre of that place. That was a different game, not this one.)

The Cyberdemon was quite difficult until I found out that rockets were blunted by my energy shield. I even found a Megasphere at some point to repair it. At this point I was using a high power plasma rifle near exclusively, and running very low on 10mm and shotgun ammo. Eventually, I ran out of that entirely, picked up all the medpacks I could for the final showdown, and equipped my energy shield to do or die.

The final battle was very anti-climactic, thanks to my 80% plasma resistance. The Mastermind went down in two clips, and that was that.

I know this is just the start of a very long road though. My next step is to get my first Silver badge in order to advance in rank. I'm thinking I'll pick a Technician, go Shotguns, and just build the first advanced assembly I manage to scrounge up the mods for. Then I can start doing the challenge runs on HNTR to get more Bronzes/Silvers, maybe trying some regular HNTR first to get used to the new mechanics.

I didn't use tactics once. This is because I am a bad player and forgot all about them. The 100% kills was planned from the start; I read somewhere that you're ready for challenge runs when you can 100% ITYTD.

Thanks again LuckyDee :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on November 02, 2013, 00:29
/me coughs heavily... It sounds like "mortem, mortem"...

Of course I meant posting it properly, ie in the Post Mortem section of the forum, since this bit's obviously about Quick Questions. You'll find all the info you need in Da Rulez! (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,561.0.html)

Give it a shot I'd say, I think you can even remove message here, once you're done...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on November 18, 2013, 07:03
Do you also earn badges/medals that require you to complete something at a certain difficulty level if you meet the same requirements at a higher difficulty level?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thomas on November 18, 2013, 08:57
Do you also earn badges/medals that require you to complete something at a certain difficulty level if you meet the same requirements at a higher difficulty level?

Yes. Well, for everything that I can think of.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Be26 on November 20, 2013, 08:48
This has happened twice now, so I'm feeling decidedly screwed. Playing standard game on easy, going for one of the Strongman badges, and I won full victories on both. However, I didn't get a badge for either - the first time around I was expecting Bronze, the second time I'd stuck to combat knives/chainswords and thought that was enough for Silver. Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on November 20, 2013, 08:59
Difficulty shouldn't matter. You're sure you didn't get a single kill with another weapon? Be advised that a monster dying to lava/barrels/whatever while you are holding a gun, will count as a gun kill...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Be26 on November 20, 2013, 09:27
Difficulty shouldn't matter. You're sure you didn't get a single kill with another weapon? Be advised that a monster dying to lava/barrels/whatever while you are holding a gun, will count as a gun kill...

I'm going to assume that was probably it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on November 20, 2013, 09:49
Just drop your pistol right from the start and never wield another weapon that doesn't meet the requirements.

Or, if you're feeling Lucky: you can shoot monsters as much as you like, as long as you make sure to deliver the final blow in melee. It does require a lot of planning and effort and quite some luck, though.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on November 30, 2013, 03:36
Equipping an armor takes 1.0s. Unequipping an armor takes 1.0s. How much time does it take to equip one when you're already wearing another? Is there a difference between going about this trough the inventory or through the character screen?

And while we're at it, does this go for weapons and boots, too? I seem to recall something like that...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Kjoery on December 04, 2013, 21:49
Equipping an armor takes 1.0s. Unequipping an armor takes 1.0s. How much time does it take to equip one when you're already wearing another? Is there a difference between going about this trough the inventory or through the character screen?

And while we're at it, does this go for weapons and boots, too? I seem to recall something like that...
Equipping any armour from inventory takes 1s. Doesn't matter if you're wearing amour at the time.

Unequipping armour from the character screen takes 1s + equipping armor takes 1s. 2s total for that route.

Question:
How does one avoid taking damage during the phobos lab ambushes? The sergeants always seem to manage to get a shot in when I trigger the walls, and I can't seem to pre-crack them with rockets.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sylph on December 04, 2013, 22:34
Maybe rocket jump past the trigger point of the ambush?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Kjoery on December 05, 2013, 00:05
Maybe rocket jump past the trigger point of the ambush?
But that involves taking damage :x
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sylph on December 05, 2013, 08:26
But that involves taking damage :x
Yes, that's true, but the damage you take from rocket jumping is remarkably low, sometimes as little as 15% health with blue armour. Considering that your environment suit is (for some reason) instantly cancelled when the ambush triggers, I'd just get both large globes and consider the >100% health boost from the 2 large health globes you just collected (which is going to decay anyway) as a 'shield' for getting past the ambush. I'm definitely gonna try rocket jumping next time I get there outside of a weapon restricted game.

I can't advise enough the importance of removing the notion that doomrl can be played damageless, especially when visiting special levels. Doing a situation 'perfectly' often involves taking damage, and the 'perfect' solution then becomes the one that leaves you on the most health/uses the least resources. I know that last sentence is obvious, but the shift in mindset is something I struggle with a little...
Looking at it this way, if we can do phobos lab using less than 4 small med packs, 2 large med packs, 2 envirosuits, and 4 health globes, then consider it free experience, free modpacks, and free combat shotgun/blue armour.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Kjoery on December 05, 2013, 12:12
I can't advise enough the importance of removing the notion that doomrl can be played damageless
Oh, I know that. I've tried runs where I go for minimal damage badges. It's doable, but I ultimately end up losing patience. It's just not fun that way!

Um, but yeah. For some reason I thought there was an Angelic Conqueror Damageless badge.

Turns out there isn't. So that solves that problem. Still seems like bad design that there are areas that have unavoidable damage (if you're going for 100%), though.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sylph on December 05, 2013, 12:48
Still seems like bad design that there are areas that have unavoidable damage (if you're going for 100%), though.
This is the kind of attitude I'm talking about though! The one I have to surpress in myself! In fact, it really isn't bad design, it's just less common for videogames to be designed this way. It's *good* design, imo, because it forces us to strategise in situations where there is no 'wrong answer', and adds massive strategic depth.

It's tactically the equivalent of the following choice:
What do I need most, a phase device and a suit of armour, or 3 medikits?
Which is infinitely deeper than the more common videogame choice:
Shall I take damage, or not?

The first question's answer depends on what we already have, and what we need. It involves so many factors, build, challenge, difficulty, item drops, health, inventory, experience, progress... The depth in knowing the 'perfect way' to handle a situation is richest in a game where you're forced to make compromises. :)

Quote
For some reason I thought there was an Angelic Conqueror Damageless badge.
I'm not even sure I believe it's possible to do N! damageless without cheating.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Kjoery on December 05, 2013, 12:57
I'm not even sure I believe it's possible to do N! damageless without cheating.
I've managed to get through N! dlvls one and two without any damage.

it made me cry tears

it's so hard to get through the entrance without getting punched once
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on December 10, 2013, 15:41
Should I nano-mod my doubleshotty for infinite shells - or a plasma shotgun so that I can attempt The Wall/Containment Area?
The former would be great because I'm playing AoSh+Lt, so shells are gonna get really scarce soon.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sylph on December 10, 2013, 16:37
I find nano (and even nano shrapnel) pretty underwhelming on a shotgun. I'd use the nano modpack on armour or a boots assembly instead, to be honest.
Elephant guns or focused doubles are better modding ideas for shotgun users, imo.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on December 10, 2013, 18:32
Well I don't have the space to carry it around, and I'm doing an Army of the Dead shottytrain, so no fancy assemblies for me.

Guess it's the plasma shotgun for me then.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on December 11, 2013, 00:17
Yeah okay, this thing is pretty awesome - it's like my tactical shotgun, except a bit weaker but with twice the ammo capacity.
oh and it doesn't eat my ammo supply and has the same damage falloff - while having the spread of a normal shotgun. Wunderbar.

God damn! This thing absolutely DESTROYED The Containment Area! "Oh no, archviles! Oh no, corpse destruction! Oh no, they're all dead!"
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sylph on December 11, 2013, 12:40
Yeah okay, this thing is pretty awesome - it's like my tactical shotgun, except a bit weaker but with twice the ammo capacity.
oh and it doesn't eat my ammo supply and has the same damage falloff - while having the spread of a normal shotgun. Wunderbar.

God damn! This thing absolutely DESTROYED The Containment Area! "Oh no, archviles! Oh no, corpse destruction! Oh no, they're all dead!"
I don't dispute that it's an awesome weapon. My issue is the fact that the nano pack doesn't make it much more awesome - it still does pretty much everything you described there, and cells are plentiful in the second half of the game.
In contrast, a suit of power armour gives you [5] protection, halves the damage from fire *before* that 5 protection (so that 20 damage from an archvile turns into 5 damage), provides 25% melee protection, and regenerates it's durability so that you need never go without ridiculously good armour.

For my money, nano packs should be used by whizkids on nanomachic non-shotgun weaponry (rocket launchers and plasmaguns, mainly), antigrav boots, or powered armour. Nanofibre skin armour can also be ridiculous on certain exotics (especially energy-shielded vest).
For non-whizkids, it's power armour almost every time, and when it's not (ie I already have more armour than I'll ever need), it's usually a BFG or a rocket launcher, not a shotgun.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on December 12, 2013, 01:50
You're forgetting that I'm dragging around the arena master's staff, along with two stacks of shells, a large medkit and my trusty doubleshotty that I should've dropped long ago, and that I'm playing Angel of Light Travel along with Angel of Shotgunnery - which means shotguns and only shotguns combined with no space for fun.

Otherwise I would've definitely saved it for a powered red armor, that shit is crazy good. (And I wouldn't have the ammo problems AoLt can stumble into.)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sylph on December 12, 2013, 09:23
Hmm... I'd question why you're carrying the arena master's staff in an AoLT game, and also why your doubleshotty isn't in your prepared slot...

In AoLT I usually reserve 1-2 inventory spaces for medikits, 2-3 for ammo, and 1 for spare armour, sometimes squeezing a thermonuclear bomb in there to save the stacks of ammo (especially shotgun ammo) used against the mastermind. It might be that you're trying to go for YAAM or conquerer, which I'd question the need for. :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Bloax on December 12, 2013, 12:33
Maybe it's not the best of ideas to use up 1/5 of your inventory slots carrying a borderline useless item across two episodes for a bunch of loot, yeah.
As for the doubleshotty, it was there until I got myself a shiny pink shotgun of asskicking with an N mod slapped onto it.
except then i never dropped the doubleshotty which was the stupid part
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on December 14, 2013, 01:09
At what point is the config.lua loaded - when running doomrl.exe or when starting a new game? Or rather, if I play a couple of levels, save and quit, edit the config, restart and load the game, will the changes be made to the game as well?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thomas on December 14, 2013, 09:31
config.lua is reloaded every time you open DoomRL, it doesn't remember what the file was like when you started any given game of DoomRL.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on December 14, 2013, 10:04
Strange, I changed my Intuition color to WHITE halfway through the last game, and nothing changed. Any suggestions as to whot givs?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sylph on December 14, 2013, 10:06
Strange, I changed my Intuition color to WHITE halfway through the last game, and nothing changed. Any suggestions as to whot givs?
Have you restarted doomrl since that game?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on December 14, 2013, 11:47
At least twice
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on December 15, 2013, 07:47
OK, can anyone confirm that

1) WHITE is a valid color and
2) They've successfully been able to change their INT color setting before?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thomas on December 16, 2013, 04:39
Changing your intuition colour only works in console mode as of right now, you get purple-ish crosses in tiles mode regardless of that setting.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on December 16, 2013, 05:17
Drat. Thanks.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sylph on December 16, 2013, 07:09
Speaking of which - is intuition supposed to deactivate while berserked (tiles mode), or is it just the awful contrast of purple-red-black that makes me unable to see it?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on December 16, 2013, 08:35
Speaking of which - is intuition supposed to deactivate while berserked (tiles mode), or is it just the awful contrast of purple-red-black that makes me unable to see it?

The latter, which is why I was trying to change the color to white.

Same problem with the envirosuit, IIRC.
See this bug report (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6156.0.html) as well.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: emulord on December 18, 2013, 14:49
Playing Ao100 on M (HNTR). At level 22 or so. I got too stressed and had to take a break.

So I took a few levels of SoaG, then the game decided to give me a bunch of shotguns and T/B modpacks.
I have EE1, Reloader2 now too. I forget everything I had since im not at home.
I have a Nano pack, Wizkid 2, no Power or Agility.
Wearing Maleck's armor [3] and some fast boots as well as Environmental plasteel.
is Nanosharpnel Double shotgun really good?

My original goal was for sharpshooter, but that seems silly now. I can still qualify for the technician shotgun special, sharpshooter, OR scavenger.
Tips?

Maybe just EE2 Int1/2?
Maybe Shotgunner? Maybe Fin/Juggler?

Archviles and mancubi are hard now.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sylph on December 18, 2013, 16:18
Playing Ao100 on M (HNTR). At level 22 or so. I got too stressed and had to take a break.
So I took a few levels of SoaG, then the game decided to give me a bunch of shotguns and T/B modpacks.
I have EE1, Reloader2 now too. I forget everything I had since im not at home.
I have a Nano pack, Wizkid 2, no Power or Agility.
Wearing Maleck's armor [3] and some fast boots as well as Environmental plasteel.
is Nanosharpnel Double shotgun really good?
My original goal was for sharpshooter, but that seems silly now. I can still qualify for the technician shotgun special, sharpshooter, OR scavenger.
Tips?
Maybe just EE2 Int1/2?
Maybe Shotgunner? Maybe Fin/Juggler?
Archviles and mancubi are hard now.


Items:
Ooh, use the nano on gravity boots or nanomachic!
You don't need the nano armours since you have malek's, meaning what you do with the nano pack is all about whether you think you'll find the boots to go with Malek's, and how much of a concern ammo/reloading will be.
Personally, I'd use it on a good pistol for a nanomachic and pump up 5 levels of SoaG, but then I'm a big fan of pistols and nanomachic assemblies. Gravity boots are probably more powerful, but have the potential for dissapointment if you find the matching boots for malek's armour.

Shotguns are great, but don't scale particularly well compared to pistols or melee, especially when you can't take army of the dead. In Ao100 scaling is important. I'd see your shotgun use as a 'phase'. Those mancubi and archviles will only get more common as you go on! Also, Nano shrapnell is really dissapointing on anything other than a super shotgun, in my experience. :(

Traits...
Scavenger is alright in Ao100. Sharpshooter becomes REALLY strong when you hit Character level 13 (0.1s per pistol shot with SoaG5). The pistol damage more than doubles at level 12 (SoaG4), and more than doubles again at level 13 (SoaG5). It's possible to kill a cyberdemon with a SoaGx5 pistol without it getting a single turn.
I personally don't like Int enough to waste the traits on it. EE is super nice, but spending like 4 traits for EE and intx2 is nowhere near as good as spending 3 on berserker and 1 on EE, even if you're not using melee!
Juggler is awesome, provided you can use your inventory for your gun collection. That means ammo concerns need to be dealt with. Juggler works best, in my experience, with brute and whizkid.
Also, consider the possibility of taking no master traits. Master traits aren't particularly strong in the current version. There are only 3-4 master traits that are more powerful than masterless builds, and Ao100 lends itself well to a more diverse playstyle (sharpshooter is, admittedly, one of the strong ones).

Archviles and mancubi
Archviles and mancubi hardly hurt you if you get the berserker trait, but if you've got malek's armour, you might just find the boots to go with it, which will hugely increase your fire resistance and sort out the problem. Fireproof red armour (P modded since you already have WK2) helps a lot, and at a pinch, an environment suit bumps your protection up quite a bit. Seriously, with WK2 I'd keep a P-modded fireproof red assembly around to switch to when you have to take fire damage, especially since malek's let's you feed your fireproof armour all the shards! That should keep you safe. :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: emulord on December 18, 2013, 16:47
No A or P mods really hurt my modding capabilities tho. I used the one P I got on enviro boots in case I need to run through some lava/acid.

But thanks! I didnt even think about Brute/Berzerker. That would certainly help against arachnotron beatdowns. I havent found a Chainsaw and I've ditched my combat knife ages ago.
I'm using boots with like +30% movespeed or something already, so I dont want to make gravity boots.

Looks like I'll be saving it until I find a good pistol. Using Nanomach on a standard pistol seems like a waste.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on December 18, 2013, 16:50
Shotguns are great, but don't scale particularly well compared to pistols or melee, especially when you can't take AotD.
It's MAD, not AotD.

/me grumbles about random abbreviation generations
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sylph on December 18, 2013, 19:03
No A or P mods really hurt my modding capabilities tho. I used the one P I got on enviro boots in case I need to run through some lava/acid.
Never mind, thay'll come!

Berserker isn't so good for arachnotrons (unless you are using a primarily melee build), it's good against viles and mancubi specifically because their attacks do enough damage to instantly trigger berserker (for the 60% damage resistance), which kicks in *before* you take the damage.

The extent to which A-modded gravity boots out-class tactical boots is probably worth a nano pack (I personally find nanomachic more fun though). If you've got A-modded phaseshift boots, then I'm not so sure it's worth upgrading.
Also, consider a nanomachic rocket launcher if you want power NOW (rather than when you get to SoaG5). For a pistol, I tend to prefer putting demolition ammo on combat pistols (only on N! difficuly), and really, a standard pistol with nanomachic and SoaG5 will do more damage than you really need to. 3-9 damage isn't *that* much better than 2-8 - not worth waiting for an exotic to drop, anyway. You're almost as likely to find a second nano pack as you are to find a combat pistol...

Oh, and sorry thelaptop. Fixed. MAD is a confusing acronym though for me though. :/
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on December 18, 2013, 19:14
MAD = Master trait: Army of the Dead.

While we're at it, Son of a Gun is SoG, not SoaG.  For the most part, the officially sanctioned abbreviations for the traits and Angel challenges come from the in-game text itself, with the only exception of Ao100 (is A100 in-game).

Not trying to be an asshole, but consistent terminology helps searching as well.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thiebs on January 02, 2014, 13:24
So I was building toward a rapid fire setup, took a few levels of SoB, but was still using a shotgun for a while for it's versatility. I noticed that my shotty seemed to be one-shotting formers at the edge of my view range pretty consistently, and getting more knockback at long range, too (more than expected). Anybody know how SoB effects a shotgun's damage reduction over distance? I'm not sure how the numbers work out, but it felt like it had a much longer effective range.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on January 02, 2014, 14:41
The reduction stays the same, but the base damage is increased:

A normal shotty does 8*2 = 16 damage (point blank) on average, so let's assume SOB2 and call it 18. With a 7% reduction per tile, a monster on the edge of your (8-tile) vision, takes 18*0.93^8 = 10 damage. A former human has 10 HP, and no armor. Seems to add up nicely to me :)

Although someone is probably going to tell me I did the math wrong, as usual ><
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thiebs on January 02, 2014, 19:24
Seems good. Leaves me to wonder whether getting a few ranks in SoB on a shotty build is really worth it, though, since a shambler would be taking 4 average damage per shot at max range with SoB 2, vs. 3 without SoB at all. That means you'd still need to get close to overcome armor, and then the damage adding isn't really so important. Hmm...

The wiki says shotguns need 7 damage to cause knockback. Do you know if that's before or after armor?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on January 02, 2014, 23:18
SOB is not a shotgun trait, which becomes especially clear if you look at the impact of it on your dps. Knockback is calculated before armor is applied, I believe.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sylph on January 03, 2014, 13:59
Knockback is calculated before armour, yeah. I didn't realise that shotguns only needed 7 damage to knock back though - thanks for the education!

Are you sure, though, that SoG SoB damage suffers from shotgun dropoff? I find SoG SoB a brilliant trait for shotgun characters, and it might well be more to do with the improved knockback than the damage buff, but I swear I see much more damage when I build SoG SoB!

(Edited - thanks for the correction x)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on January 03, 2014, 14:19
I'm pretty sure SOG has nothing to do with the dropoff, yeah :P

The SOB thing's more of an educated guess, but since no one has called my bluff as of yet, I'm banking on being right for a change (:
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thiebs on January 03, 2014, 18:31
If SoB is calculated after the percentage reduction, the damage is improved by a few points, depending on SoB level and distance, but not a ton. It would be a much bigger impact on the knockback, though, since it would make hitting 14 damage much more common.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sylph on January 03, 2014, 20:02
I guess it shouldn't be impossible to test, given the fixed 10-hp of formers... Hmm...

If dropoff applies to SoB, then at 7 squares away (49% damage dropoff), a SoBx2 shotgun (18 average damage) should deal an average of 18*0.51=9.18dmg
If SoB applies after damage dropoff, then the same SoBx2 shotgun will deal an average of 16*0.51+2=10.16dmg
So all we have to do is shoot at former humans and sergeants from 7 tiles away, and see if they normally die, or normally survive.

I just ran 100 tests (savescumming and macroing was useful). 55 times out of 100, a shotgun with SoBx2 killed a former human at 7 tiles away. This suggests (although in no way confirms) that SoB damage doesn't suffer from shotgun damage dropoff, which has implications when it comes to ranged shotgun damage and armour reduction.
It also backs up my anecdotal evidence - the fact that SoB seems a surprisingly useful trait for shotgun use.

I'd encourage anyone else who is curious to join me in testing! I can't be bothered to shoot any more former humans at 7 tiles away with SoBx2 - my eyes have gone funny. :D


ps. If this is true, SoBx2 shotguns average 14 damage (double knockback) from 4 tiles away.
If not, then SoBx2 shotguns would average 14 damage from 3 tiles away.
Without any levels in SoB, a shotgun only averages 14 damage from 2 tiles away. (Bear in mind '1 tile away' is melee range.)
This difference, as Theibs suggested, is extremely important for cornershooting shotgun traps.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thiebs on January 03, 2014, 20:26
Very interesting. I'll try it out, too.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sylph on January 03, 2014, 21:26
Well if you do, just remember that a distance of 7 tiles actually means there are 6 empty tiles in between you and the former, and it has to be in a straight horizontal or vertical line!

Also worth mentioning that a FAR better test is 9 tiles away with SoGx5. That will almost never (<5%) kill a former if SoG suffers from dropoff, but should kill them over 60% of the time if SoG does not drop off.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thiebs on January 03, 2014, 22:03
That would be quite a bit harder to set up, but it also serves to point out how much of a difference it would make if it does drop off.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on January 04, 2014, 00:15
Urgh.  I hate doing this, but I have to.  I dived into the source code on the repo.

Shotgun damage is initialised as a dice roll object with number of dice, number of sides per dice, shotgun damage additions and bonus from SoB.  So, a shotgun with 8d3 and the trait of 2xSoB gives a dice roll object of 8d3+2 per enemy met in cone.

To determine the damage that an enemy gets from being hit by a shot of this shotgun, the dice roll object is rolled, discounted based on the drop-off and distance, and then rounded off.  If the resultant damage is less than 1, it gets set to 1.

The reason why it seems that SoB doesn't suffer from the drop-off is that more often than not, the stochastic part of the damage roll dominates the damage formula.  Also, the distance computation is wonky -- lots of rounding here and there and I have no idea how to decipher it properly.

tl;dr SoB won't hurt shotgunners, but the gain in DPS isn't as dramatic as regular rapid fire weapons.

Side note: Also I'm sure Sylph was referring to SoB and not SoG.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on January 04, 2014, 00:24
While you're at it: is dropoff caluculated as (1-percentage)^distance or 1-percentage*distance?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on January 04, 2014, 00:50
Well, here's the whole line:
Code: [Select]
dmg := Round(Damage.Roll * (1.0-Reduce*Max(1,Distance(source,tc))))
You tell me.  =P

Aaand I'm no longer reading the source.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on January 04, 2014, 01:05
Thanks. So my calculation should have been 18*(1-0.07*8) = 8 instead of 10 damage.

Although someone is probably going to tell me I did the math wrong, as usual ><

See? Told you so.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thiebs on January 04, 2014, 06:19
Something seems fishy here. Obviously the source code don't lie, but there seems to be something else afoot. Maybe something to do with the range is calculated and how targeting gets wonky, like was said. But I'm probably gonna do some more tests like Sylph did, anyways.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on January 04, 2014, 08:38
Please bear in mind that:

1) This is the average damage. Testing 100 times might not be enough to reflect this properly.

2)
the stochastic part of the damage roll dominates the damage formula.
whatever that may mean real English. My statistics classes are too long ago (and too not in English) to grasp it. To myself, I'm translating this as "the theoretical average damage and actual average damage may not or do not correspond".
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Juice on January 04, 2014, 14:28
Ad 1) Probably true. There are statistical tests that could determine if it suffer from dmg dropoff or not, although I'd have to relearn my statistics to do it properly (and also increase the testing sample to maybe 10k :-D)

Ad 2) I'd say it means the random part of the calculation dominates the total damage sum.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Thiebs on January 05, 2014, 05:31
Okay. Figured out why things seemed off. Sylph's test was at 7 spaces (which I didn't notice, I was thinking 8), meaning that you would see 10+ damage just over half the time, which matches the test. Which means that SoB 2 increases your odds of one-shotting a former by about 16% at max range. For knockback, I'm assuming armor DOES apply first, since the odds of getting at least 7 damage are quite good, (a roll of 15+, or about 74%) even without SoB. Which would mean that against an opponent with 2 armor (4 damage reduction vs. shrapnel), you would need 24 damage to score a knockback at max range, which is <1% with SoB at 0, 1, or 2, but jumps to 2.4% at SoB 3, and ~14% at SoB 5. Which is still nowhere near enough to take 5 traits. ;-P At point-blank range with 2 armor, the odds of a knockback are >99% to begin with, so no gain there. But a knockback 2 spaces from point-blank is 26% without; SoB 1 is 41.5%, 3 is 74%, and 5 is 93.5% and 6.5% of getting a triple. That's a little more interesting, though still pretty minor most of the time. I think the lesson to be gathered here is that SoB (of course) isn't meant to be used for shotguns, but if you're building rapid-fire, you can count on knockback with even a basic shotty in the prepared slot.

No promises on my math.

Oh, and if I had realized how in-depth this was going to be, I might not have put it on the quick questions thread. ;)
Title: OH GOD MY EYES and also confusion
Post by: Captain Mac on January 05, 2014, 18:07
Hey there, guise.

So. Angel of Darkness. The wiki tells me this: "Your vision radius is only 6 and anything outside of this radius is black, except for what maps reveal as well as Intuition. Scouts and maps do not know the location of stairs. Experience gain is doubled." I started it just today, on HNTR just to test the water.

Monsters are respawning. Should they be respawning? I don't think they should be respawning. Can anyone shed some light (haaaaaaaa.) on this for me?
Title: Re: OH GOD MY EYES and also confusion
Post by: thelaptop on January 05, 2014, 18:22
Yes, and I'm merging this with Quick Questions.
Title: Re: OH GOD MY EYES and also confusion
Post by: Ridonk on January 31, 2014, 17:37
Hey there, guise.

So. Angel of Darkness. The wiki tells me this: "Your vision radius is only 6 and anything outside of this radius is black, except for what maps reveal as well as Intuition. Scouts and maps do not know the location of stairs. Experience gain is doubled." I started it just today, on HNTR just to test the water.

Monsters are respawning. Should they be respawning? I don't think they should be respawning. Can anyone shed some light (haaaaaaaa.) on this for me?

I am also slightly confused by this. Is this a handy training ground for N! corpse disposal techniques? :)
Title: Re: OH GOD MY EYES and also confusion
Post by: Sylph on February 01, 2014, 17:24
I am also slightly confused by this. Is this a handy training ground for N! corpse disposal techniques? :)
That's a good way of looking at it!
Yes, it's intended to work that way. Stops you from feeling safe in the dark. :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: aka_Cthulhu on March 13, 2014, 01:18
Is there any way to remove the red tint from the screen when you're berserk. It's gonna hurt my eyes if I'm going to have to watch it for 400 more floors...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on March 13, 2014, 01:24
No.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: OhGawdSpidersNo on March 13, 2014, 12:11
Where is keybindings.lua when you play on a mac? Or, is there some way to change keybindings in game?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on March 16, 2014, 01:05
I'm pretty sure binding can only be done outside the game. As for the file - which is in the root folder on windows - I'm not sure how this works on mac. If you can't find it, look at the config.lua - you should be able to find a reference in there.

If the keybindings.lua should indeed be there, try downloading again and just add the file to the root.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: OhGawdSpidersNo on March 16, 2014, 12:21
I'm pretty sure binding can only be done outside the game. As for the file - which is in the root folder on windows - I'm not sure how this works on mac. If you can't find it, look at the config.lua - you should be able to find a reference in there.

If the keybindings.lua should indeed be there, try downloading again and just add the file to the root.

Unfortunately I can't figure out where any of these files are, not even config.lua
Even after figuring out how to search for hidden system files on a mac I can't find any .lua files, or any files associated with doomrl called "config" or "keybindings"
It's pretty damn annoying.

Another question: Can you build advanced assemblies off of other advanced assemblies? Specifically, can I make an assault rifle using a gatling gun as a base?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on March 16, 2014, 12:33
Unfortunately I can't figure out where any of these files are, not even config.lua
Even after figuring out how to search for hidden system files on a mac I can't find any .lua files, or any files associated with doomrl called "config" or "keybindings"
It's pretty damn annoying.

Can't help you then, I'm afraid. Downloaded the mac version myself, but naturally I can't even open the archive file. I can talk to some people, though...

Another question: Can you build advanced assemblies off of other advanced assemblies? Specifically, can I make an assault rifle using a gatling gun as a base?

Nope. Once you've chosen to assemble something, that's it. Technicians can still goof around with 'em a bit more, but the assembly type will be set in stone. Also see the assembly part of the wiki (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Assemblies), although be warned that this contains lots of spoilers.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Floaters on March 16, 2014, 15:23
How do you get a full win on Ao100? I've tried waiting out a nuke under invulnerability on HMP to no avail; is it a UV/N! thing or did I have to descend that last staircase with the nuke primed on the level?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on March 17, 2014, 00:00
How do you get a full win on Ao100?

You don't. It's a feature for the standard game and any challenge based on the standard game (so just about every game except Ao100 and AAo666).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on March 17, 2014, 00:05
You don't. It's a feature for the standard game and any challenge based on the standard game (so just about every game except Ao100 and AAo666).
There may be a way, but it's hopelessly luck-based and very very hard.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: OhGawdSpidersNo on March 17, 2014, 21:21
So I'm playing Angel of 100 and I just found a Laser Rifle. I already have a hyperblaster.

Should I just turn this thing into an assault rifle, burst cannon, or wait around and try to make it into a nanomanufacture laser rifle.

Alt Scenario:
If you had a regular plasma rifle and a laser rifle, and you could make one of them nanomanufacture and the other any other assembly, what would you do?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: OhGawdSpidersNo on March 17, 2014, 21:39
Do onyx and nano packs appear in Ao100? I'm on level 75 and I haven't seen any special packs at all yet.

So I'm playing Angel of 100 and I just found a Laser Rifle. I already have a hyperblaster.

Should I just turn this thing into an assault rifle, burst cannon, or wait around and try to make it into a nanomanufacture laser rifle.

Alt Scenario:
If you had a regular plasma rifle and a laser rifle, and you could make one of them nanomanufacture and the other any other assembly, what would you do?

Like, my thoughts are that an assault laser rifle would basically instakill everything, but will end up using up possibly more ammo than my hyperblaster because every volley will eat 2 instead of 1 (I'm using ammochain, by the way)

So I was thinking I could aim for a nanomanufacture plasma rifle and an assault laser rifle, to use the assault most of the time and then fall back to the nano if I run out of ammo. I don't have a nano pack right now, and I'm afraid that if I commit to the assault rifle idea I might end up running out of ammo and dying.

And then let's say a nanopack does show up next level, is the last plan even the best? Maybe I should just slap the nanomanufacture on the laser rifle and be done with ammo forever.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Equality on March 17, 2014, 21:55
Quote
more ammo than my hyperblaster because every volley will eat 2 instead of 1 (I'm using ammochain, by the way)
you basically do not need nanomanufacture ammo with ammochain, simple N-mod quite enough. So, as for my experience, I would make assault laser rifle and Nano-mod it. 40 ammo -> 20 shots, you always have a possibility wait for nano-recharge that.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: OhGawdSpidersNo on March 17, 2014, 23:10
Looks like I found a nuclear plasma rifle! Guess I can fall back on that as my alt, and fully commit to the laser assault rifle.

If ammo isn't looking to be a problem maybe I'll even boost it with a power or bulk instead.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on March 17, 2014, 23:18
If ammo isn't looking to be a problem maybe I'll even boost it with a power or bulk instead.

Focus on damage, I'd say. The more things you can kill with one volley (=1 cell), the more ammo-efficient you are. The combination nuke rifle and MAc in itself should end all your worries about ammo, on lower difficulties at least.

*rummages through forum archive*

There, I knew it: http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6808.0.html (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6808.0.html)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Floaters on March 18, 2014, 00:41
Regarding that
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
that waits at the bottom of Ao100, what is needed to access that secret?
It mentions
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Could I have a hint or an explanation as to what it is?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on March 18, 2014, 08:53
Regarding that
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
that waits at the bottom of Ao100, what is needed to access that secret?
It mentions
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Could I have a hint or an explanation as to what it is?

No. Feel free to pester people via PM until they start blocking you, but public discussion is heresy :)

Disclaimer: I don't know either D:
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Equality on March 18, 2014, 22:42
Quote from: Floaters
...waits at the bottom of Ao100, what is needed to access that secret?
Could I have a hint or an explanation as to what it is?
Hint? at any game, challenge or not. If you have (spoiler) when achieving a standart victory (and LEAVING last level of that challenge) you got a (spoiler). A bonus death or full victory if you are strong enough. At Ao100 it is a bug, btw.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 11, 2014, 13:24
Playing AoSh UV. Have a P-modded vanilla (Elephant Gun to be) and a non-modded double. Found a nano mod. No WK and no intention of getting it any time soon.

What to do? How good is nanoshrapnel - I know it solves ammo problems, but does it reload fast enough?

[EDIT]: Nevermind, save-scummed to try it, and it sucks total ass (on a vanilla shotgun).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Svankensen on June 20, 2014, 10:47
After loosing a winning char trapped in mt erebus inner circle with no way out, i got my first HMP victory (second victory in total and first complete victory). I had started plying in HMP, but after losing 3 chars to shamblers i decided to go to an easier difficulty. So in HNTR i decided to face the shamblers and found nothing in their vault (and i was carefull not to blow anything). I thought Shamblers werent wort killing ever, but after clearing Mt Erebus in HNTR and not seeing the advertised lava elemental i decided that, being easy difficulty, it wouldnt have all rewards active.

My HMP game was doing pretty good so i decided not to risk the shamblers for a potential non-reward. So, i want to know, Is there a reward in Deimos Lab for killing the shamblers? I know theres one in hells armory, but i was unable to find any in deimos lab.

Oh, and another question (if its kosher, otherwise ignore it and answer the first): Any recommendations for doing the Angel of Confidence challenge? I've been doing a burst build, the one ive crafted through my games (SoB->EE->SoB->TH->Int->CE->EE->Fin->Fin->Whiz), but so far ive reacher Cateyes at most.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on June 20, 2014, 12:50
after clearing Mt Erebus in HNTR and not seeing the advertised lava elemental i decided that, being easy difficulty, it wouldnt have all rewards active.

That's odd. I can't say for certain about Mt Erebus, but on the Lava Pits - its paired level - the Lava Elemental does appear on HNTR. And you can't miss it, since it's coming after you. You sure you didn't miss a lost soul or something?

My HMP game was doing pretty good so i decided not to risk the shamblers for a potential non-reward. So, i want to know, Is there a reward in Deimos Lab for killing the shamblers? I know theres one in hells armory, but i was unable to find any in deimos lab.

In fact, they should be twice what you get in Hell's armory (not counting any 'normal' items)... I'd say "Screenprint or it didn't happen"

Oh, and another question (if its kosher, otherwise ignore it and answer the first): Any recommendations for doing the Angel of Confidence challenge?

The only AoCn I did was on a melee build. Melee generally have more difficult starts, but they start packing a punch (ha!) swiftly and are devastating once matured.

Spoiler: Mortem (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Svankensen on June 20, 2014, 13:22
Now that i think about it, i probably missed a monster, i thought you had to open all the levers, not kill all monsters.


Well, no screenprint, but i opened the vault in deimos lab where the 2 shamblers live and i didnt find anything inside that vault. Do the items spawn somewhere else? Maybe that's what happened. In a nutshell, tho, killing the shamblers does give you rewards besides the normal rewards for doing the lab right? I can just search the level afterwards if thats the case. Shamblers are though cookies with only bullets tho, and if i understood right, they dont get damaged by the rocket launcher.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on June 21, 2014, 06:01
Now that i think about it, i probably missed a monster, i thought you had to open all the levers, not kill all monsters.

Well, no screenprint, but i opened the vault in deimos lab where the 2 shamblers live and i didnt find anything inside that vault. Do the items spawn somewhere else?

The items spawn in the vaults after everything on the level is dead.  You have to get the "You feel relatively safe now" message before they appear and it will give you a message like "The lab cache opens."

In a nutshell, tho, killing the shamblers does give you rewards besides the normal rewards for doing the lab right?

You get two more mod packs, including an extra chance for an exotic one, like a nano or onyx mod.

...and if i understood right, they dont get damaged by the rocket launcher.

The description of the Shamblers says they "shrug off explosions" because that description is lifted verbatim from the instruction manual for Quake.  (It makes me feel old that I remember that; what was that?  Twenty years ago?)  :)  I don't think they actually have any fire resistance.  (Nor do they in the original Quake, as far as I know)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on June 21, 2014, 09:41
The description of the Shamblers says they "shrug off explosions" because that description is lifted verbatim from the instruction manual for Quake.  (It makes me feel old that I remember that; what was that?  Twenty years ago?)  :)  I don't think they actually have any fire resistance.  (Nor do they in the original Quake, as far as I know)
I could... you know... make reality match the description (if it currently isn't doing so).

I'm feeling the itch to... nerf easiness...  >.>
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on June 21, 2014, 10:29
Why stop there?  Maybe you can put six more Shamblers in to give a real challenge...  and throw in a few Cyberdemons for good measure.  :P
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on June 21, 2014, 11:41
So... Brütal Doom: The Rogue-like, a fork of 0.9.9.7 that sits between that and 0.9.9.8 where I get to nerf easiness?

/me sits upright and clasps hands and listens intently.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: the_tall_man on July 05, 2014, 13:10
Unfortunately I can't figure out where any of these files are, not even config.lua
Even after figuring out how to search for hidden system files on a mac I can't find any .lua files, or any files associated with doomrl called "config" or "keybindings"
It's pretty damn annoying.

I was googling for a solution to this and ran into this post...

Right click on the app, select "show package contents", all the files you want are in there.

Hooray for vi keys, now I can play on my laptop properly
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sylph on July 09, 2014, 17:15
Shamblers...I don't think they actually have any fire resistance.  (Nor do they in the original Quake, as far as I know)
In quake they took 50% damage from rockets and grenades.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Svankensen on July 19, 2014, 07:23
Can i skip most of phobos Base by destroying the doors/walls with a rocket launcher?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on July 19, 2014, 14:30
Can i skip most of phobos Base by destroying the doors/walls with a rocket launcher?

The answer is probably 'yes', but what do you mean by Phobos Base? Technically, I think this is levels 2 - 7, which is probably not what you mean.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Svankensen on July 19, 2014, 18:04
=P oops, phobos lab, the one with the nightmare demons.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on July 20, 2014, 00:26
In that case the answer is most likely 'no'. Wouldn't be fun otherwise ><
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: raekuul on July 21, 2014, 19:39
Noobing a bit on Linux here, but is there a deb package that I can use to install with? I hate having to puzzle missing dependencies based on runtime errors.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on July 21, 2014, 19:57
Not that I know of.  The usual stuff you need are the 32-bit editions of MIDI soft-synths and uhh SDL mixer or something like that.  I'll pulling it off the top of my head, so forgive me if I'm wrong/incomplete.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: singalen on July 22, 2014, 05:26
64bit versions for 64bit are OK. Any yes, you need to "sudo apt-get install" every libsdl_somethin that turns out missing.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Mr. Magoolachub on August 11, 2014, 01:24
Does anyone know if I can use a gun to open crates if going for a strongman badge, or can there be no gun usage at all? Alternatively, is there some way I can hit crates with my fist?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on August 11, 2014, 01:43
Does anyone know if I can use a gun to open crates if going for a strongman badge, or can there be no gun usage at all? Alternatively, is there some way I can hit crates with my fist?
For Strongman badges, only the finishing blows count. Unless you _kill_ a creature with a gun, the game will not credit a weapon kill, so you're fine softening up tougher creatures all the way to "almost dead" and deal the finishing blow with your fists.
This also means that you are fine shooting crates open with whatever gun you have - but be careful not to catch some former humans in your shotgun's blast.
Hitting crates with your fists is possible too - just press "f" when unarmed, and then enter the attack's direction.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Mr. Magoolachub on August 11, 2014, 01:47
For Strongman badges, only the finishing blows count. Unless you _kill_ a creature with a gun, the game will not credit a weapon kill, so you're fine softening up tougher creatures all the way to "almost dead" and deal the finishing blow with your fists.
This also means that you are fine shooting crates open with whatever gun you have - but be careful not to catch some former humans in your shotgun's blast.
Hitting crates with your fists is possible too - just press "f" when unarmed, and then enter the attack's direction.

Oh wow, that first thing is super useful to know, thanks. Are you sure about hitting crates with your fist though? Whenever I try pressing f without a weapon I just get a message "You have no ranged weapon.", is there some setting I have to change maybe?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on August 11, 2014, 01:55
Are you sure about hitting crates with your fist though? Whenever I try pressing f without a weapon I just get a message "You have no ranged weapon.", is there some setting I have to change maybe?
Hmmm ... Sorry, some confusion seems to have kicked in for me, as I thought this was already fixed :-/
However, you can open crates the way I described if you have a melee weapon equipped (just tested it, not to make a fool of myself again :) ). Carrying a combat knife for this purpose may be worthwhile.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Mr. Magoolachub on August 11, 2014, 05:04
Another question about strongman, am I allowed to nuke the mastermind?

edit: nevermind, risked it and it was fine
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on August 11, 2014, 23:23
Just want to add one more thing to what ZicherCZ said:  Make sure nothing dies while you have a weapon in your hand.  For example, if a Demon falls into acid at the opposite end of the map while you have a shotgun in hand, it will give you credit for a shotgun kill.  If your goal is to get only bare-handed kills, I would recommend keeping your hands empty as much as possible.  Nuking the Mastermind is fine as long as you don't have a weapon in hand when the nuke goes off.

Good luck!  :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: papilio on August 19, 2014, 10:26
Moreover, as I know, killing an enemy by punch while you are wielding a ranged weapon WOULD NOT give a fist-kill credit.
I just finished a run like this, expected Strongman Gold, Diamond and Sunrise Iron Fist,
but didn't receive anything except Medal of Prejudice.. :(
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: wintermuet on October 20, 2014, 05:31
I have a question about the wiki actually. How do you get promoted to editor status? I have a notepad full of math on the game and I figured I'd try to put all that otherwise wasted time to use by putting it in the wiki to fill out missing information and make some references.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on October 20, 2014, 06:12
I have a question about the wiki actually. How do you get promoted to editor status? I have a notepad full of math on the game and I figured I'd try to put all that otherwise wasted time to use by putting it in the wiki to fill out missing information and make some references.
The Wiki welcome page states that you need either 20+ forum posts or be a supporter (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?action=treasury) for editing access.
If you don't want to become a supporter for the time being, feel free to PM your edits to me, I'll add them on your behalf as soon as time allows.

PS: Oh, and welcome to the forums! :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: wintermuet on October 20, 2014, 15:41
Oh man that's too bad, I really don't plan to post here 20 times. In fact this is probably my last post.
Verification is too cumbersome, content is too poorly organized, and I already have too many forums to keep up with.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on October 20, 2014, 16:37
I'm sorry it's that cumbersome -- you must understand the constant tide of stupid spammers we need to fight.

Why not post some mortems of the games you play?  I'm sure there are enough interesting ones for you to get to the point where you can do your own edits.  It will also establish credibility that you know what you are talking about when you make the edits too.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: johnnih on October 10, 2015, 07:04
So, I'm getting back into playing some DoomRL again and I am on a strongman run. Suddenly, I realise I have a knife in my hand... Now, I'm unsure if I just used it to open some crates before I got up form the computer to take a break or if I have actually killed something using the knife. Is there any way to know?

Damn. I had a nice start this time around - got myself a couple of nukes and a ballistic vest that couldve helped keeping the 100% kill dream alive.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on October 10, 2015, 08:00
Is there any way to know?

Yes. Finish the game or get killed. Schrödinger's cat must be laughing at you :S
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: johnnih on October 10, 2015, 10:40
Yes. Finish the game or get killed. Schrödinger's cat must be laughing at you :S
If it's alive, I guess!

But it would seem to me taht I can only know, if I win the game using bare fists all the way from here on. I wouldn't be any wiser, if I died along the way as I would get no award.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on October 10, 2015, 11:26
Unfortunately, yes, that's your only option. At least you'll have had a good practice round.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on March 10, 2016, 05:58
Looking for an apostle right now, I'm wondering...
Do you need LUCK to get it in a regular game ?

I mean, from what I know, you need to <censored spoiler>, then get DS & BA, then nuke Spidey, but... what if you didn't find a nuke ?

I'm entering spider's lair with 2 invu globes right now, and got a nuke a few levels earlier, which I would gladly have spent here, but...  I just can't affort to waste it, can I ?  (my goal is that damn apostle, btw)
Getting zerk stuff is hard enough, adding a luck factor to allow getting the Apostle seems pretty unfair to me
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Zuyl on March 10, 2016, 13:04
There's no luck involved if im correct. If you fulfill the specific conditions, the Apostle will spawn. As for nukes, you can always find the Nuclear BFG in Limbo/Mortuary and overload it to trigger a nuke.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on March 10, 2016, 14:52
Yeah, sure about the conditions, but the question which remains is : how am I supposed to overload a nuclear weapon with a cursed blade in my hands ?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: thelaptop on March 10, 2016, 19:02
There's no luck involved if im correct. If you fulfill the specific conditions, the Apostle will spawn.
As one who has The Sight, I can confirm that there is little to no luck involved in getting the Apostle consistently.

Literally, there is a chain of events that need to occur.  That's as much as I am willing to say.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Zuyl on March 11, 2016, 05:22
Yeah, sure about the conditions, but the question which remains is : how am I supposed to overload a nuclear weapon with a cursed blade in my hands ?

Whoops, didn't think about that. I guess you have to get a lucky nuke then..
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on March 11, 2016, 12:29
Yeah, sure about the conditions, but the question which remains is : how am I supposed to overload a nuclear weapon with a cursed blade in my hands ?

Oh wow, you're right!  I never thought of that.  Unless there's a secret way to consistently come up with a Thermonuclear Bomb, you really do need a lot of luck because nukes are a pretty uncommon drop.

As one who has The Sight, I can confirm that there is little to no luck involved in getting the Apostle consistently.

Literally, there is a chain of events that need to occur.  That's as much as I am willing to say.

I'm aware that there's a way to consistently get DS and BA to spawn, but I have never seen any mention of a way to consistently spawn a Thermonuclear Bomb.  Evilpotatoe raises a good point that if you have the Dragonslayer in your hands, you won't be able to wield the Nuclear BFG to overload it to nuke the Mastermind.  Is this an oversight on the part of the Devteam?  Or is there something I'm missing?  (I hope you can tell me that much)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Evilpotatoe on April 10, 2016, 06:28
While I don't know how, it seems there's a way (http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,5563.msg45993.html#msg45993).
Maybe going damageless, maybe 100%, maybe... bah, it requires superpowers that mere mortals like us don't have anyway.



New question, about the combat knife ! (seeking Gargulec cross...)

On the alternate fire (http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Alternate_fire) page, the wiki says :
Throwing ignores attack speed bonuses and always takes 1.0s
=> What does "always" mean. I think there is an "exception" for scouts.  Throwing would not be an attack action, hence not reduced by Finesse, but scout's 10% action speed probably applies, doesn't it ?  Is there any other possible modifier ?

Also,
throwing accepts melee-only damage bonuses
=> ok for +toDam, but it looks like +toHit remains the ranged one.  Does it mean that improving knife accuracy would require EE ?  Does A-modding a knife (slightly) help ?  Is it possible to... S-mod a knife ?!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Amnesiac on October 31, 2016, 08:24
Could you tell me how to disable effects that make screen red from berserk, white from invulnerablity, etc?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Kref on December 28, 2016, 06:05
I have Wizkid 2 perk, and red armor with power mod installed. I want to get eventually cybernano armor, so I try to install second power mod, but get message "This item can not be modified anymore with this mod!". Whats the matter?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Hamster on December 28, 2016, 06:11
Quote
Modpacks can be added in any order, with the exception: second mod of the same type can be added to armor/boots/melee weapon only when completing an assembly, since those can only accept one mod of a kind at once.
https://drl.chaosforge.org/wiki/Assemblies

So just add three different mods, then second power.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on December 28, 2016, 14:39
Amnesiac, to the best of my knowledge there is no way to disable those effects.

Kref, to fully build out an assembly, you can't begin it until you have the appropriate level of Whizkid. There's a mod cap to any item which takes effect as soon as the first mod is installed, and is based on your Whizkid level at the time(the actual details may be slightly different, but essentially that's how it works).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on December 29, 2016, 11:19
(Sereg, I think you misunderstood Kref's question)

I have Wizkid 2 perk, and red armor with power mod installed. I want to get eventually cybernano armor, so I try to install second power mod, but get message "This item can not be modified anymore with this mod!". Whats the matter?

The second power mod has to be the last thing you put on.  The order of the others doesn't matter, but it won't let you put the second power mod on unless you are completing the assembly.

This goes for any armour assembly that has more than one of the same mod, such as antigravity boots, where you need to put the second agility mod on last.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Deathwind on January 09, 2017, 23:48
Really dumb question from a returning player, does a sniper mod do anything at all on a shotgun? I don't think it does but just asking for confirmation.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on January 10, 2017, 00:00
Really dumb question from a returning player, does a sniper mod do anything at all on a shotgun? I don't think it does but just asking for confirmation.
IIRC, it doesn't do anything, and I think the game even calls you up on this ("What a waste" or something like that).

Edit: Eh, my mistake, that behavior would be firestorm mod. Sniper mod in itself doesn't do anything, but when combined with another mod (hint, hint) ...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Deathwind on January 10, 2017, 00:11
nope, the gun took it just fine with the normal message and this AoSh is now the 'proud' owner of a "shotgun (8d3) [1/1] (S1)".

edit: Damn, I completely forgot the changed that assembly to use a sniper pack instead of a nano, had I remembered it would have gotten me through the wall...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: DooMBringer on February 17, 2017, 12:17
Could you advise how completion of Angel of Pacifism is marked in "Difficulty level achievements" section of player stats (part that lists number of wins, deaths and kills on each difficulty)?
Does completing it (detonation of bomb on Mastermind level) counts as Win (partial), death or as win and death at the same time?
Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on February 17, 2017, 18:37
I *believe* it's counted as a Partial Win... even if you survive (https://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6448.msg56164.html#msg56164) killing the Mastermind. I'm quite certain it doesn't count as a standard win just because of the challenge mode, and of course a partial win *is* a death, but for the purposes you're asking about, it's just a partial win. The only question is whether surviving as I did promotes to standard, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that it does not(I don't recall how it affected my stats - that's a rather old mortem from a profile I no longer use).

I suppose you could always go and do some M AoPc runs and see...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Faintly on May 21, 2017, 14:27
Armor/resistances:

is shrapnel damage effected 2 or 3 times by armor?

How does rounding work with resistances?

Does berserk give armor in addition to the resistances?


mods:

Is shotgun spread or falloff affected by sniper or agility mods?

Is storm bolter a bad mod for a standard 6 shot pistol? I thought the ammo capacity would increase but I guess it's more for things like the combat pistol?


future plans/patches:

Is juggler keybinding planned to remain?

Is feature of reloading from the ground planned?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on May 21, 2017, 14:38
Is shotgun spread or falloff affected by sniper or agility mods?

Not at all. These mods have no effect on shotguns whatsoever, outside of contributing to their assemblies.

Quote
Is juggler keybinding planned to remain?

Is reloading from the ground feature planned?

With the dawn of Jupiter Hell, DRL development looks pretty much nonexistant now, so it's unlikely that you will see such changes anytime soon.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Faintly on May 21, 2017, 14:41
thanks!

about juggler, I'm still curious what the intention hypothetically would be.

_

I edited in some questions that I thought of after posting but before I saw your reply.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on May 21, 2017, 15:09
OK, I'll try to answer the other questions as well:

- Shrapnel damage is affected once by resistance and twice by protection (thats what you probably mean by "armor"). IIRC, no monsters have inherent shrapnel resistance, but some monsters can pick up and wear armors with such a resistance.

- Resistance seems to round the damage taken to the nearest integer (this took quite a bit codediving to find out, and I hope I understood it properly :) ).

- Berserk gives no protection (if that is what you mean by "armor"). 60% resist all is powerful in and of itself.

- Storm bolter: What do you mean? Ammo capacity does increase with this assembly by 50%.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Faintly on May 21, 2017, 21:20
thanks. Yes I meant protection by armor (flat minusdamage), and with the storm bolter pistol I suppose I expected more as 9 shots isn't exactly a lot when you're firing 2 at once at -2 accuracy. -Even on a gun kata build* it seemed like not enough shots. Might be better with some levels in son of a bitch as well as of a gun. I'm sure it's very strong on combat pistol.

* though in retrospect maybe I shouldn't have got whizkid at all, seeing as it requires 2 levels of finesse which is irrelevant when you use the kata attack, and doesn't help with the ammo-in-gun bottleneck.

edit: and double thanks for source diving!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on May 22, 2017, 13:43
In fact, storm bolter might be _weaker_ on combat pistol, due to knockback coming into effect at 12 damage. If the first bullet causes knockback, the second bullet might simply fail to target the knocked-back creature and automatically miss.

With SoG3 (a standard for pistol builds) this is not an issue for standard pistols, causing 11 damage per bullet at most. With a combat pistol, the maximum damage is 12. And that's not counting ranks in SoB, which stress the problem even further.

To say it in a diplomatic matter - in my humble opinion, storm bolter is one of the less useful assemblies.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Faintly on May 27, 2017, 07:53
If the arena master staff targets two adjacent enemies, do they both get hit twice? (AoE)



I like the mod on combat pistol if you're dual wielding and your other pistol is a pistol because it aligns the amount of trigger pulls to deplete the weapon so the extra capacity doesn't go to waste anymore. -Normally to fire twice as many bullets you have to reload more often. it's not the case when your other pistol is a normal pistol. Though I have since found out that with SoG 4/5 fire speed becomes insane anyway.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: arseface on August 10, 2017, 11:16
I can't seem to get the github version working, and I need godmode for reasons. Been trying for the last hour or so to compile but I really have no idea what I'm doing.

Is there an easy way to compile this for windows, or a pre-compiled release download that includes godmode?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tavana on August 11, 2017, 16:59
What an excellent question, arseface. I'm not aware of any compiled versions of d**mrl that have Godmode left on, I seem to recall it was dependent on being run from within the compiler's software.

What will help the most to get you properly compiling is to know what software you're trying to use. My main mistakes the first time I tried to compile were that I didn't have the necessary dependencies to make it work - mostly .dll files which aren't too hard to find.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: arseface on August 11, 2017, 17:43
I basically just merged the valkyrie and doomrl master github folders and ran build on makewad in a vanilla lazarus.

In seeing that I'm probably missing some libraries, I realized that I hadn't put the \libs\ folder from FPC Valkyrie into the src folder for the project. Now makewad compiles, but I can't run it because I'm missing lua5.1.dll, which google is giving me a bunch of shady sites for.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tavana on August 13, 2017, 16:42
Glad to hear you've gotten closer! I would check the compiled release of d**mrl. I think the DLL you're looking for is there.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: arseface on August 13, 2017, 17:19
I copied it over and I'm still getting

Code: [Select]
An unhandled exception occurred at $0000000100046C3D :
ELibraryError : Can't load library "lua5.1.dll"
  $0000000100046C3D line 65 of vlibrary.pas
  $000000010003791C line 391 of vlualibrary.pas
  $0000000100038731 line 651 of vlualibrary.pas
  $000000010002F308 line 110 of vpkg.pas
  $000000010002FD51 line 206 of vpkg.pas
  $000000010002FE6A line 216 of vpkg.pas
  $000000010000197A line 23 of makewad.pas
  $0000000100001C06
  $0000000100012833
  $0000000100013331
  $00007FF82A772774
  $00007FF82BAF0D51

I copied over every .dll from the compiled release just in case, and it's still a no go.

I tried running the DoomRL.exe compiling gave me with the .wads from the compiled release, and it's giving me an Access Violation error.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: yaflhdztioxo on August 14, 2017, 15:58
Looks like you're using the 64 bit Lazarus and thus compiling a 64 bit program.  You'll need to use the 32 bit version.

Rather than try being clever about it, I'd recommend nuking your 64 bit setup from orbit and starting over again from scratch with only 32 bit lazarus installed.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: arseface on August 14, 2017, 18:14
Looks like you're using the 64 bit Lazarus and thus compiling a 64 bit program.  You'll need to use the 32 bit version.

Rather than try being clever about it, I'd recommend nuking your 64 bit setup from orbit and starting over again from scratch with only 32 bit lazarus installed.
It worked!!! Thanks so much.

Time to record some maps.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Dr. Granola on September 16, 2017, 18:17
ArchAngel of Humanity is marked as TWODEV difficulty.
What, or who, is TWODEV?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on September 16, 2017, 18:24
2DeviationsOut was a player that used to post some pretty insane mortems, including Angelic Badges that have never been duplicated.  There has since been significant doubt cast on the legitimacy of those achievements, but the game hasn't been updated since then.

If there were to be a new version, I would recommend replacing that difficulty level with one honoring Tormuse or papilio, both of whom have submitted video evidence of achievements almost as difficult as the ones 2dev claimed.

VANDAM would be another candidate of even higher caliber then 2dev, if the offhand claims he made are true(and personally I have more faith in his legitimacy then in that of 2dev),  but unfortunately he never posted mortems or videos.

As far as that goes, we may have some up and coming players that will eventually rival the old legends... Icy is on a journey to surpass VANDAM and his performance so far is promising, and khiijol appears to be attempting some pretty crazy stuff with impressive if not entirely successful results... although if memory serves he posted some solid mortems awhile back.  On my phone right now so I'll look into that later.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on September 16, 2017, 19:14
I gave a detailed account of my opinion of 2Dev here. (https://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,7999.msg66775.html#msg66775)

And Sereg, you seem to be forgetting someone...  *Gestures toward Sereg's collection of 13 Diamond and 2 Angelic badges*  ;)

There are other Diamond/Angelic badge hunters around, but few have been active here for a very long time; Game Hunter once had a thread dedicated to honouring them, (https://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,4621.0.html) but it hasn't been updated since 2012, when version 0.9.9.5 was around.  (I suspect that it's entirely possible that he gave up on it because 2Dev's victories were looking increasingly implausible)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on September 16, 2017, 19:25
Thanks, but even if I hadn't Sereg'd most of my hardest badges, I'd still not be in the same class as you and papilio's 20+ diamonds and 7 angelics.

Maybe my name could be a joke difficulty level for any challenge that's really hard to do the right way but really easy with AoOC dual...

Not to be too self- deprecating... I apparently do have some degree of skill more then I originally gave myself credit for,  but I'm very far out of contention for having difficulty levels named in my honor.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Dr. Granola on September 16, 2017, 20:07
On the subject of badges...
How the heck do I view all of my collected badges? I've poked around but can't seem to find them.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on September 16, 2017, 20:57
On the main menu, there's a button that says, "Show Player."  Select that and then push the left or right arrow keys to cycle through all the pages of stats for all the games you've played.  It shows all your badges, medals, and lots of other interesting information.  (You can also push up and down to scroll up and down those pages too)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on September 19, 2017, 00:00
Can anyone explain to me the art of chainfiring? I don't think I've ever experimented with that, and I'm currently trying UV AoMC, on which I suspect it may come in handy...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on September 19, 2017, 02:06
Can anyone explain to me the art of chainfiring? I don't think I've ever experimented with that, and I'm currently trying UV AoMC, on which I suspect it may come in handy...

Here's how it works:
On the first (initial) turn the weapon fires 2/3 of its standard shots, rounded up.
On the second (warming) turn the weapon fires a standard amount of shots.
On the third (full) turn and all subsequent turns the weapon fires 3/2 of its standard shots, rounded down, until you stop chainfiring or your weapon runs out of ammo (in this case, of course, you will only fire whatever number of shots you have remaining).

So for example a normal chaingun would fire 3, 4 and 6 bullets respectively, while a F-modded minigun would fire 7, 10 and 15 bullets.

Now, you can switch targets between turns. If you do, however, the weapon will pan from the previous target to the new one, and will fire shots in an arc between these targets - one shot per ~30° of arc. So if you first aimed directly north and then switched to directly east, two shots would be "lost" (fired at 30° and 60° angle respectively, and these can hit targets standing in their path), and only the rest of the volley would hit the new intended target.

Good luck with that UV AoMC.

EDIT: If I read the code correctly, then extra shots granted by Triggerhappy are counted towards the _base_ number of shots (i.e. before multiplications for the initial and full turns of chainfiring).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on September 19, 2017, 02:46
It's also worth noting that the fact that the initial blast uses less ammo than normal can sometimes be used to save ammo, especially in an AoMC game where you often need less ammo to kill your enemies.  Like you can fire just the initial few shots and then cancel the later stages of chainfiring.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on September 19, 2017, 05:32
As a player who has probably a better appreciation for rapidfire weapons then average, even I have only ever used chainfiring mode with Master Ammochain - and even then mostly only on deep Ao666 floors where I can spawn into a horde of nasty stuff all on my screen at once.

Other then that, it has no use and no synergies of which I am aware - Cateye and Entrenchment both look in theory like they would benefit from it, Cateye because you can see more to chainfire at safely, and Entrenchment because it specifically benefits from being in chainfire mode, but in practice, anything other then a minigun will need to be re-loaded long before you can do much(note that with Entrenchment, stopping to re-load leaves you exposed to all enemies at the exact moment your bonus resistances vanish without a trace - IMO, Entrenchment would only be viable if it maintained its resistances during reloading a rapidfire weapon as well as well chainfiring it, and then only if it also speeds up reloading and stops/reduces knockback[whereas Cateye is very useful regardless of your weapon choice]). Even with a minigun, it's so ammo-consumptive that it makes very little sense to use - in almost all cases, normal bursts would be more effective. If they're not, you might want to re-think the build you're using for rapidfire weapons.

Ammochain, of course, solves both of these problems, because every burst costs only one round, whether you're concerned with your magazine or with your backpack.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on September 19, 2017, 06:28
Cheers gents, this is proving useful already - 'specially Tormuse's bit. I assume discontinuing chainfire boils down to performing any action other than alt-fire?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on September 19, 2017, 06:32
I assume discontinuing chainfire boils down to performing any action other than alt-fire?
Not exactly. Once you start chainfiring, you are prompted with a target selection immediately after each turn (no need to press alt-fire again). If you cancel the targetting, chainfire ends.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on September 19, 2017, 07:39
I assume discontinuing chainfire boils down to performing any action other than alt-fire?

Press the escape key.  That cancels it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: BBHood217 on September 25, 2017, 04:47
It annoys me that nightmare enemies are completely silent, because it allows them to sneak up on you.  I wanna change their sounds, as well as those of the elite former humans and agony elemental, into sounds from PSX Doom/Doom 64 so I gotta ask: What are their internal names as printed in the .lua files?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on September 25, 2017, 05:44
It annoys me that nightmare enemies are completely silent, because it allows them to sneak up on you.  I wanna change their sounds, as well as those of the elite former humans and agony elemental, into sounds from PSX Doom/Doom 64 so I gotta ask: What are their internal names as printed in the .lua files?
In the first place, the no-sound of nightmare enemies is a part of why they are considered nightmare. Assigning sounds to these enemies would significantly decrease their deadliness, so if you assign sounds to them and later post your victory mortems here, it would be only fair to admit this fact in those victory posts.

The enemies' internal names are not mentioned in the .lua files, but they are mentioned in the monster definitions in the source code. They are as follows:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Note that I didn't actually try to assign sounds to them - they may have sounds blocked deeper in the code, overriding whatever sounds you may want to assign to them. You'll have to test this yourself.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on September 25, 2017, 06:36
I seem to recall seeing a DRL Let's Play video a while back in which the Lava Elemental and Shambler made roaming and pain sounds.  I don't know if that included Nightmare creatures, but I'm guessing it's possible.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on September 25, 2017, 06:41
Now that I think of it, there is a pretty quick way to test the sounds - just assign custom sounds to a nightmare demon, start a N! AoOC game and dive for the Unholy Cathedral. Nightmare demons are guaranteed there.

Too bad I only have a fresh DRL installation (no achievements whatsoever, no challenges unlocked), so I cannot try this myself ...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: khiijol on September 25, 2017, 08:26
i think unholy cathedral on N! is just regular demons?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on September 25, 2017, 08:42
i think unholy cathedral on N! is just regular demons?
Eh, damn me - you're correct.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: BBHood217 on September 25, 2017, 18:19
Is playing on N! the only way to get the Experience Cross in Ao100?  I've read some U Ao100 mortems and they all seem to always fall short by one level even with 100% kills.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on September 25, 2017, 20:47
Is playing on N! the only way to get the Experience Cross in Ao100?  I've read some U Ao100 mortems and they all seem to always fall short by one level even with 100% kills.

Yeah, in Ao100, you can only reach level 25 in Nightmare! difficulty.  In ArchAo666, however, it's easy to reach level 25 at any difficulty.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: BBHood217 on October 01, 2017, 22:23
What does the Apostle actually look like, as in what color would he be if you could somehow see it without the berserk effect's red filter?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on October 02, 2017, 05:42
If memory serves he looks like a slightly modified vile.  As for his color,  you could probably find it in the source, but he might as well be that exact shade of red since there are no conditions under which you could ever see him in game without being berserk.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: MaiZure on October 02, 2017, 06:32
What does the Apostle actually look like, as in what color would he be if you could somehow see it without the berserk effect's red filter?

Yellow '@' symbol
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on October 02, 2017, 12:26
Yellow '@' symbol

Hmm...  Maybe someone should update the wiki, then; I just looked and it shows the Apostle as being a red V.

EDIT:  Done.  I notice that Papilio has done all the edits to the page up 'til this point; in fact, it looks like he created the page in the first place!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Dr. Granola on October 28, 2017, 18:26
How does SoB affect MMB?
Does it apply to each swing separately?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on October 29, 2017, 00:39
How does SoB affect MMB?

The wiki (https://drl.chaosforge.org/wiki/Traits) specifically states that SOB affects every single shot. I can only assume this may be read as every single attack, which would give you twice the bonus on an MMB attack.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Dr. Granola on October 29, 2017, 06:16
Thanks! I was thinking that too, but I didn't know for sure.
On the subject of MMB, What is the most optimal setup possible with it?
the top 2 contenders right  now are... (not including armor or the dragonslayer)
1. Cleaver + Cleaver(prepared)
2. Ripper + Cleaver(prepared)
With Brutex5 and SoBx5 for relevant perks.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on October 29, 2017, 07:41
Well, as the Cleaver is a unique item, I highly doubt you'll find a second one while it's in your possession. I don't know what other flavors of impressive melee weapons are going around; I'd have to do some more research.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on October 29, 2017, 13:26
The Chainsaw and all its assemblies aren't considered "knives" for purposes of MMB.  You still get the resistances if you have a knife in your prepared slot, but you won't attack with both weapons if a Chainsaw is in either position.  That being said, excluding DS from the question, I'd say the Butcher's Cleaver combined with a power-modded Chainsword would be best (and most fun) to play with, as I demonstrated in this game. (https://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,6289.0.html)  (See the part where it says "knife-juggling strategy")

Of course, the Longinus Spear or Azrael's Scythe does more damage per hit than any combination of knives; strictly speaking, combining Chainswords isn't the most practical, but it is pretty awesome.  :)

EDIT:  Now that I've done some calculations, it seems I spoke to soon:  At lower Brute levels, LS and AS do more damage per hit, but at Brute 5 and SOB 5, dual Chainswords or the CS/BC combo overtake them.  At first glance, the Ripper's double attack speed makes it do damage faster than the CS/BC combinations but then you consider the BC's Blademaster effect, which makes the attack take zero time and makes all my calculations fly out the window, since division by zero is undefined.  :P

tl;dr:  Chainsword/Butcher's Cleaver is the way to go, but Ripper is a close second.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: BBHood217 on October 29, 2017, 20:12
I actually haven't tried it since the time I asked about it (still gotta find those PSX sounds, and is it true that the archvile also had such sounds despite not appearing in PSX Doom?), but is it actually considered cheating to give sounds to silent monsters like the nightmare monsters and Arena Master?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Omega Tyrant on January 07, 2018, 03:37
Can someone give me a thorough breakdown on how damage from Rocket Launchers work? I've read that their actual damage output is lower than what their programmed damage values would normally entail, and my experience in the game seems to support that statement, however I can't find an explanation on how it works and how one can more accurately calculate their damage output. Reading the explosions page on the wiki hasn't helped me with this; I thought maybe damage is calculated after knockback is incurred (and thus they take less damage from being farther away from the explosion center), but according to the explosions page there's a pretty generous range of 3 steps from center until damage dropoff begins, so I don't know if that's the actual explanation on why RLs do less damage (and I also don't particularly recall monsters against walls dying faster to them).

Another thing confusing me on RL damage output is that on the wiki's Rocket launcher (https://drl.chaosforge.org/wiki/Rocket_launcher) and Missile launcher (https://drl.chaosforge.org/wiki/Missile_launcher) pages, their average damage is listed as 21, while the Tactical rocket launcher (https://drl.chaosforge.org/wiki/Tactical_rocket_launcher) page states its average damage is 15, even though it still has 6d6 damage. Is it something with its smaller explosion radius causing less damage? Is it simply a math error made by an editor that was never fixed? Or is that the actual average from 6d6 rocket damage, and the math used to find it was never applied to all the Rocket Launcher pages?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Omega Tyrant on January 11, 2018, 02:08
Another question I can't seem to find the answer to on the wiki; when resistances factor in, how is the reduced damage result rounded?
Title: Sniper mod pack on shotgun
Post by: edio on January 21, 2018, 20:46
I'm currently doing a run on Angel of 100. My main weapon so far is Tactical shotgun and I had WK2 when I assmebled it.

Now I found Sniper Mod Pack, but I don't have free space in my backpack. And the only weapons I have are rocket launcher with bulk mod and this tactical shotgun.

I'm wondering, will Sniper pack improve anything on my shotgun? Or should I apply it to rocket launcher (I feel like it's a waste, I hope to find missile launcher later)?
Title: Re: Sniper mod pack on shotgun
Post by: Tormuse on January 21, 2018, 21:36
It depends a little on what traits you have; if you don't have Eagle Eye, Sniper mods are good for your rapid-fire weapons for keeping them accurate, but putting it on the Rocket Launcher can be helpful too.  (It sucks to miss with the Rocket Launcher)

It doesn't have any effect on shotguns, since those fire in a spread, but the Plasmatic Shrapnel shotgun assembly uses a Sniper mod, so you might find that useful for getting rid of corpses so that Arch-Viles don't revive them.
Title: Re: Sniper mod pack on shotgun
Post by: edio on January 21, 2018, 22:59
Oh, these decisions again. I can sacrifice one backpack slot and carry sniper pack with me until I find Power mod for Plasmatic shrapnel (I had successful runs in the past with double shotgun being PS, and tactical shotgun as my main weapon). But I currently miss 2 power mods for Cerberus armor (I have ballistic vest with AT already and onyx pack), so I don't think a powerpack for my plasmatic shrapnel will happen any soon.... On the other hand, as I said, spending Sniper mod on rocket launcher when any time you can find missile launcher is kind of wasteful. OTOH, rocket launcher has rocket jump, which saved me quite few times in the past...

Thanks for explanations anyway, will try to figure out, what to do with my sniper pack :)
Title: Re: Sniper mod pack on shotgun
Post by: Tormuse on January 22, 2018, 00:05
If your only reason for not putting it on the Rocket Launcher is that you're hoping for a Missile Launcher, then I'd say just go ahead and put it on the Rocket Launcher.  Missile Launchers are a rare drop; it's unlikely that you'll find one in Ao100.
Title: Re: Sniper mod pack on shotgun
Post by: thelaptop on January 22, 2018, 01:06
You know, questions like that ought to go into the "quick questions" thread to reduce clutter.  I'll move this there in a few hours.
Title: Re: Sniper mod pack on shotgun
Post by: khiijol on January 22, 2018, 08:56
i dont really like plasmatic shotguns outside of nightmare games. the added damage is nice but too often ends up burning through my cover when im corner shooting
Title: Re: Sniper mod pack on shotgun
Post by: edio on January 22, 2018, 13:39
If your only reason for not putting it on the Rocket Launcher is that you're hoping for a Missile Launcher, then I'd say just go ahead and put it on the Rocket Launcher.  Missile Launchers are a rare drop; it's unlikely that you'll find one in Ao100.

Already understood that. Decided to drop one of the medpacks and go hold sniper pack for a while. Found double shotgun later, modded it. Later found P and made PS.

And I'm still alive. PS is really helpful.

Although wide shotgun spread is not as useful in Ao100 as in normal game (this was the only reliable way for me to pass city of skulls).
Title: Re: Sniper mod pack on shotgun
Post by: edio on January 22, 2018, 13:44
i dont really like plasmatic shotguns outside of nightmare games. the added damage is nice but too often ends up burning through my cover when im corner shooting

Didn't like it too at first. But that was before I realized, that one is not limited to a single shotgun. Having 2 shotguns in normal game is actually a very rare thing for me, I ususally do not have time to assemble both, but in Ao100 I already have Tactical + P, and Double + PS. Tactical is my main weapon (still... but with every level it renders more and more useless frankly), and Double + PS is useful when I need to make a small hole in a wall or kill nightmare demons.
Title: Re: Sniper mod pack on shotgun
Post by: Omega Tyrant on January 23, 2018, 00:31
Missile Launchers are a rare drop; it's unlikely that you'll find one in Ao100.

Unless you're me, in which case you'll find three of them outside the special levels in a normal game, while you don't want to use it :|

Anyway, anyone have the answers to these prior questions of mine?

Can someone give me a thorough breakdown on how damage from Rocket Launchers work? I've read that their actual damage output is lower than what their programmed damage values would normally entail, and my experience in the game seems to support that statement, however I can't find an explanation on how it works and how one can more accurately calculate their damage output. Reading the explosions page on the wiki hasn't helped me with this; I thought maybe damage is calculated after knockback is incurred (and thus they take less damage from being farther away from the explosion center), but according to the explosions page there's a pretty generous range of 3 steps from center until damage dropoff begins, so I don't know if that's the actual explanation on why RLs do less damage (and I also don't particularly recall monsters against walls dying faster to them).

Another thing confusing me on RL damage output is that on the wiki's Rocket launcher (https://drl.chaosforge.org/wiki/Rocket_launcher) and Missile launcher (https://drl.chaosforge.org/wiki/Missile_launcher) pages, their average damage is listed as 21, while the Tactical rocket launcher (https://drl.chaosforge.org/wiki/Tactical_rocket_launcher) page states its average damage is 15, even though it still has 6d6 damage. Is it something with its smaller explosion radius causing less damage? Is it simply a math error made by an editor that was never fixed? Or is that the actual average from 6d6 rocket damage, and the math used to find it was never applied to all the Rocket Launcher pages?

Another question I can't seem to find the answer to on the wiki; when resistances factor in, how is the reduced damage result rounded?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Amnesiac on February 03, 2018, 02:29
Is nano plasma shotgun not gibbing corpses a bug that I should report?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on February 03, 2018, 04:29
Is nano plasma shotgun not gibbing corpses a bug that I should report?
Unlikely. Plasma weapons need to deal quite a lot of damage to gib a living enemy (200% max health). As for corspes, shotguns in general do not damage corpses who were dead before the attack, only explosions do.
Unless there is something very specific going on, it's probably not a bug. And, with a stall of D***RL development, there's probably no one who would fix a bug anyway ...
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Amnesiac on February 03, 2018, 04:58
Thanks. Well, the original plasma shotgun or plasmatic one does gib corpses, seems to always work from any range. But once I added another P to my PN plasma shotgun and made it into assembly it supposedly turned to non-plasmatic shrapnel type as I understand it.
Making it into assembly isn't even critical as it has capacity for 10 shots and I mostly used it for gibbing in an ao666 game, but I wanted less waiting.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on February 03, 2018, 05:32
Thanks. Well, the original plasma shotgun or plasmatic one does gib corpses, seems to always work from any range. But once I added another P to my PN plasma shotgun and made it into assembly it supposedly turned to non-plasmatic shrapnel type as I understand it.
Making it into assembly isn't even critical as it has capacity for 10 shots and I mostly used it for gibbing in an ao666 game, but I wanted less waiting.
Ah, that makes it clear then.
PN-plasma shotgun works just fine, as you mentioned, but by adding another P mod (and not cancelling the following "Do you want to create the assembly?" prompt) you created a nano-shrapnel (https://drl.chaosforge.org/wiki/Nano-shrapnel) shotgun assembly, which changes the damage type to Piercing (without regard to original damage). Piercing damage doesn't gib corpses at all.
If you had cancelled the "create assembly" prompt, you would end up with a PPN-plasma shotgun, as you probably wished. If you did not receive such a prompt at all, that would be a bug.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Amnesiac on February 03, 2018, 05:40
If it's really piercing damage, then it's pretty cool as the loss of 3 dices isn't as big, that's good to know. Wiki says "original shotgun blast" so I confused it with the damage type, it does say piercing damage now that I look closer. I intentionally assembled it, so no bug there.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Omega Tyrant on February 03, 2018, 06:59
Wiki says "original shotgun blast" so I confused it with the damage type

By that it means it keeps the type of shotgun blast the shotgun previously had, e.g. a Double Shotgun will still have a wide blast, a Combat Shotgun will have a focused blast, a Plasma Shotgun will have a plasma blast (which despite the name, does not necessarily equate to plasma-type damage), etc.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Amnesiac on February 06, 2018, 08:16
There is another supposed bug I've encountered a few times but paid attention to only today: with sufficient knockback of phaseshift set aoe attacks often just knock you back and deal 0 damage. Or is this a feature of the set? Also will make clear that the message was "you are hit" not "you dodge".
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on February 06, 2018, 09:13
I'm not sure about the application of knockback and damage reduction from aoe attacks, but to rule out the most obvious thing that springs to mind: does this happen when you have the Survivalist trait?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Amnesiac on February 06, 2018, 09:17
No, I'm a scavenger, it happens on all aoe attacks quite often, on revenants, viles or barons, I suspect that the damage is applied after knockback so it hits nothing. Might also have something to do with dodging from hellrunner.

UPD: I took some hits for research, does seem happen about half of the time with hellrunner*3. Seems to be combination of dodging and knockback.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on February 06, 2018, 13:26
Pretty sure it's a bug...  It comes up every once in a while when someone gets knocked back at a particular angle.  (I've witnessed it happen to enemies too; like someone getting knocked back by a shotgun, but taking no damage from it)  I've never investigated it enough to figure out what that angle is and/or take advantage of it, but I think it has something to do with the game engine scanning the level line by line, trying to figure out what got damaged and what got knocked back and having someone get knocked back into a section that already got checked.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Amnesiac on February 06, 2018, 14:48
Well, that didn't happen to me without knockback modification, also it happens really often and where I'm not sure the angle matters, like viles' attack. This game was full of weirdness, because sometimes those projectiles of barons would explode(painfully) right on my tile without me being knocked away at all...

But that reminds me about another bug, I think sometimes you can shoot through walls at some angle.

UPD: I just tried some max carnage+overconfidence and I can say that probably just the power of knockback matters. My unarmored/barefeet tech flies away from revenants' rockets unscathed all the time, unless there is a wall behind me.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: bolt_thundara on March 10, 2018, 17:36
Is it worth trying to build a Demolition Ammo assembly on a MSs run? Even if I was building it from a combat pistol I'm not sure if that's better than the 3P2B White Death
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on March 12, 2018, 07:04
Is it worth trying to build a Demolition Ammo assembly on a MSs run? Even if I was building it from a combat pistol I'm not sure if that's better than the 3P2B White Death
If you have the required mods and WK2 (and preferably an extra P-mod to slap on after building the assembly), then definitely go for it.

You would probably not use it as a primary damage weapon (White Death is a lot better in that aspect), but it works well as a handy corpse-disposal and wall-breaking tool. It consumes 10mm ammo, so you can safely ditch that missile launcher and rockets to free some inventory slots. It is a pistol, and fires with your pistol speed - useful at times when you need to dig through a wall quickly. Last but not least, with SoG5 you have a guaranteed two-tile knockback, as opposed to White Death's single tile - useful when you are in an open space and need to knock enemies out of LOS swiftly.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on August 18, 2018, 03:27
How to read text screenshots made by DoomRL? They turn to be a real mess of stuff when opened, even if I choose an ISO-8859-1 charset in Notepad++ which is the closest to cp437 I can have.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on August 19, 2018, 13:52
How to read text screenshots made by DoomRL? They turn to be a real mess of stuff when opened, even if I choose an ISO-8859-1 charset in Notepad++ which is the closest to cp437 I can have.

Try opening the config.lua file and toggling the "AllowHighAscii" line.  (I think it's set to "true" by default)  I had the same issue and I found that setting it to "false" fixed it.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Moray on August 20, 2018, 19:13
Is there a way to change the settings on the wait command so that instead of one depress acting as one "wait" (in other words, a single second) it will run indefinitely until something occurs like a former appearing or the like? If so, it'll make my ultra-campy N! runs a lot smoother.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on August 20, 2018, 21:29
Is there a way to change the settings on the wait command so that instead of one depress acting as one "wait" (in other words, a single second) it will run indefinitely until something occurs like a former appearing or the like? If so, it'll make my ultra-campy N! runs a lot smoother.

In fact, there is!  :)  In the config.lua file, there's a line that says "MaxWait."  Just change that number to a ridiculously high number, and then in the game, use the "run" button ("," by default) followed by the "wait" button and Doomguy will wait that many times.  You might also want to change the "RunDelay" line.  (It puts a delay in between each wait action)  Personally, I have mine set to "1" in case I want to interrupt the waiting, but some more bold people set it to "0" so the time passes instantly.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: scotherns on August 21, 2018, 02:44
If you set max wait high, be SUPER careful on levels with armed nukes, so you dont accidentally wait yourself to death. I failed a very promising Nightmare YAAM A100 that way.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on August 21, 2018, 13:31
What's so good in that cerberus armor? It might be nice on top of zerk, but it's destructible and judging by Wiki it doesn't self-repair anyhow, so it just lasts one huge mess and you're down 5 packs and a piece of armor. You can instead run with a simple(r) nanofiber (BP) red and try saving up for either a powered, AOP or cybernano, depending on whether it's 25, 100 or 666 levels game, and with 666 you'd better find that fire immunity set instead anyway...

(In a middle of UV Ao100, got too many packs on the floor to consider building this. MCe with an AOP already, so more a curiosity rather than a necessity)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on August 24, 2018, 04:50
What's so good in that cerberus armor?
The answer is quite easy - value for mods. In a standard game, where the majority of Hell enemies are fire-based (revenants, mancubi and archviles), you're quite likely to find the requested mods well before. Cerberus armor then gives 70% fire and acid resistance and 50% plasma resistance (and 2 protection on top of that, with a P-mod afterslap), which makes for quite a lot of defense at a relatively cheap price. Plus, armor shards and reserve red armors are quite plentiful in Hell.

The other armors you mentioned - nanofiber is outright weak in terms of defense (it halves the original protection and resists, traded off by being indestructible). Powered armor, AOP and cybernano then all require either a nano mod or an onyx mod, which are far too rare to find in a standard game (outside of Armory/Deimos Lab) to reliably count upon. The Inquisitor Set is also far too rare in a standard game. Of course, Ao100/666 are a completely different matter, you will sooner or later find everything there. But even in these games, cerberus (or a fireproof red, which is even cheaper) is a go-to armor before you can find anything better.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on August 24, 2018, 13:59
I think it's also worth noting that the fact that Cerberus armour blocks percentages is pretty significant!  For example, the Cyberdemon can do as much as 36 damage per rocket.  If you're wearing, let's say Gothic armour, which provides 6 protection, you will still take 30 damage, but if you're wearing Cerberus armour, you'll only take 11 damage.  That's a pretty big difference!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on August 24, 2018, 21:39
Thanks people... probably building a cerberus armor has a use if your build gives protection otherwise - MMB, most likely. MEn is kinda meh for me. Am I right that you don't actually care what armor you use to build a cerberus, except for set bonuses (say phaseshift would still give lava immunity with boots on)? Also, P or A on top of it? (Or B, maybe?)

Another question - trying to play AoD, discovered that you don't see the map even if you get a computer map. Owww. Any better start with this than Int-Int? And what locations to carefully avoid? (Learned the hard way I should have avoided Deimos Lab, as the only reasonable build with AoD is shotgun)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on August 31, 2018, 11:53
Finally tried a lil of N! Geez, that is one whole different world, with quite different emphasis. Even with "easy mode" of AoMC and MCe N! continuously brings me my head in a pocket. I can't even... Probably I should use demons with AoMC on Hell Arena to cover up and bury them caco corpses... I always get someone of them rez just at the wrong time... and maybe get less shells and more bullets... how do you people get N! arena done? I managed to "complete" it once, getting rewards, but was waaay away from Pwnage Badge, which seems to actually be in range for my skills. How do you do corpse blowing-up, if actually you do?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on September 01, 2018, 02:07
Yeah, Hell's Arena at N! difficulty is super tough, mainly because each time you progress to the next round, you still have to worry about the guys from previous rounds reviving.  It makes eliminating the Cacodemon corpses top priority, usually by stacking Demon corpses on top of them, or perhaps, occasionally by standing over a corpse and letting another Cacodemon destroy it if you have the med packs to spare.

Still, looking over my Youtube channel, I see that I have quite a few videos of conquering N! Hell's Arena.  (More than I thought, actually!)  :o

There are *four* videos of me doing it with pistols only!  1, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcYcrkuRqLM) 2, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1v0fW9PcRo) 3, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMUk4LrVieE) and 4. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWG_J8u11I0)  (The last one is in ArchAngel of Light Travel)

One of me doing it with shotguns only... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9NMUeKYq0A)

And one of me doing it in Angel of Masochism. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqllfwgstHc)

I make plenty of mistakes in those videos, so I can't say I'm the best at it, but I think I do pretty well.  :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on September 01, 2018, 02:21
Gonna visit some of them when I'll be back at unlimited Internet :)

In fact, I'm now aiming to do "easy N!" with AoMC, so my actual target is to do Hell Arena Pwnage badge - they say taste comes while eating, hum. If at all possible, maaybe I will be then trying wielding the Dragonslayer, although MCe route looks more easily reached. Also, what disadvantages N! puts to the player, is it 10% reduced speed (and is it 0.99 or 1.01?) or 10% extra speed for enemies (or is it 50% as I've read elsewhere)?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: khiijol on September 01, 2018, 03:23
if you have a dead cacodemon and dead demon in sight, stand on top of the cacodemon and run-wait until the demon respawns (or until another cacodemon comes into view and you have to run away to hide behind something). on max carnage you can easily use the chaingun to lure the demon over the cacodemon corpse when it respawns - in regular its a lot more time consuming because the shotgun is the primary weapon and you have to account for knockback. if you only have 1-2 corpses on screen in an inconvenient location, try to get them to respawn and move to a more defendable position. obviously the last wave give priority to getting the baron corpses destroyed, if you're doing max carnage those fireballs hurt really bad

damageless is really tough, max carnage or no

i dont think the enemies in N! have a speed boost, but might fire more frequently
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on September 01, 2018, 15:31
i dont think the enemies in N! have a speed boost, but might fire more frequently

According to the wiki, it's both. (https://drl.chaosforge.org/wiki/Game_Settings)  (Or rather the player is slowed down, so the enemies seem faster in comparison)

In fact, I'm now aiming to do "easy N!" with AoMC, so my actual target is to do Hell Arena Pwnage badge...

I just realized that I forgot to include the video where I did just that!  :) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swP3OBiOqsc)

Basically, I got Intuition 2 first and then Hellrunner to help me keep ahead of Demons to maneuver them into corpse-stacking positions.  I also stocked up on as much ammo as I could carry, which is important, because this strategy calls for a lot of shooting into the shadows at things you can't see and even with AoMC, that means using a lot of ammo.  (EDIT:  Also, needless to say, you need to be *very* careful with each and every step that you don't step into view of any unknown enemies, because if it's a Cacodemon or Baron, they'll ruin your day)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on September 03, 2018, 09:40
According to the wiki, it's both. (https://drl.chaosforge.org/wiki/Game_Settings)  (Or rather the player is slowed down, so the enemies seem faster in comparison)

I just realized that I forgot to include the video where I did just that!  :) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swP3OBiOqsc)

Basically, I got Intuition 2 first and then Hellrunner to help me keep ahead of Demons to maneuver them into corpse-stacking positions.  I also stocked up on as much ammo as I could carry, which is important, because this strategy calls for a lot of shooting into the shadows at things you can't see and even with AoMC, that means using a lot of ammo.  (EDIT:  Also, needless to say, you need to be *very* careful with each and every step that you don't step into view of any unknown enemies, because if it's a Cacodemon or Baron, they'll ruin your day)
Wow, I seem to be doing about right in my runs. I sometimes do win the arena, not yet pwn tho, well it will eventually happen I believe. Thanks :)

Also in that vid the player's speed w/o Hellrunner is still listed as 0.91s, as it is in UV and below for a scout, but enemies are clearly moving a lil faster.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on September 05, 2018, 07:41
After not getting anywhere close to winning in N! AoMC, I have decided to try something "easier" - UV AoSh. Dam, they always get me by CC, either barons gang up or Arena Master fries me. How do you people get Unchained Court done with AoSh? If I skip CC, things go decently well until Hell's Armory, where the shambler fries me as well, with double or tac, no matter.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: khiijol on September 05, 2018, 12:58
i wouldn't attempt unchained court it unless i had gotten a combat shotgun (or better) and a box of shells. even then it would be a challenge

hell's armory is doable but deimos lab is incredibly tough on AoSh unless you get lucky with something like a super shotgun. if you're doing scout build you should have intuition and hellrunner 2 by that point which will greatly help when you need to run away behind a wall when one teleports next to you and you can't blow it back with knockback in time to duck behind a corner
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on September 05, 2018, 19:58
It's probably worth mentioning that in my AoSh game, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9NMUeKYq0A) I cleared CC+ at Nightmare!  :)  (I had a Combat Shotgun and shellbox, which were obviously a huge help)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on September 05, 2018, 23:58
Wow, need to check that game for tips. I normally still have a shell box from wiping Hell Arena, as with AoSh an Int2 arena is sort of a cakewalk unless you get swarmed in an instant at the start of the next wave. But a combat shotgun is not a frequent drop on Phobos lv5, and even if I do get that AND a P-mod to augment it at once, I seem to get cornered by barons pretty often. I have managed to get some of them with relative safety, but then that moment happens when a baron enters left doors with you engaged in damaging one (or two!) other barons, you have to flee as in cramped quarters that baron has an advantage, and you normally can't push it back out of the doors and maybe into the lava... OW, OW, AAAAAHHHHHH! And since there's no cover outside, you're pretty much screwed. Then yet again, the Vile. I couldn't down it last time on UV with zerk on at first and a double shotty plus Shottyman AND HR2 (no combat shotgun for me that time), got it to mortally wounded before it fried me.

I start to clear Deimos Lab and NOT releasing the shamblers, they are too dam tough and mobile to tackle, perhaps if I'd be a zerker then maaaybe I'd decode to communicate to them my need of packs (:D), but likely not on any other setting. The location where they appear is too small for ranged combat and too hot for melee, should they start teleporting (which I think they never do if engaged, still one needs to close the distance first). One Shambler is doable, esp if you can take some cover after it teleports. Just did a successful AoSh run tho, gonna post a mortem as it has something to boast on my skill level.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: BBHood217 on December 09, 2018, 07:46
I've been toying around with custom sounds in DoomRL.  I got Ironbeer's sound overhaul mod, then did a few sound replacements which was mostly changing some gun sounds to their PSX Doom 64 sounds as well as have JC make Icon Of Sin sounds (I mean he is the final evil).  I asked this (https://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,3999.msg68001.html#msg68001) last year regarding giving sounds to the completely silent nightmare monsters and was told that it would be considered cheating.  Regardless, I recently found another sound mod that actually gives them sounds (don't worry, I haven't used it yet and Ironbeer's mod still leaves the nightmares silent) so any opinions on that?

I also have to ask since I don't have the source code.  What are the internal names of the Arena Master, agony elemental, and Apostle for the purposes of giving them custom sounds?  Of course with the Arena Master and agony elemental, they're silent like the nightmares so it might be cheating again.  But I remember the Apostle just making normal arch-vile sounds, so surely I can change those without being called a cheater.

And finally, I have to mention a couple of sound oddities that might be bugs.  The revenant actually has his unique firing sounds, but he doesn't actually use them and just uses the rocket launcher default sounds.  Also, JC doesn't actually use his idle sound; but maybe that one's for the best because I set it to the Icon's backwards speech, and hearing that all the time would probably get old fast.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Svankensen on December 24, 2018, 05:16
Is there a way to turn off the Berserk red tint? I have 400+ floors to go on this run, and I'd like to be able to distinguish stuff... Been looking around in config.lua but I cant seem to find anything relevant there.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: BBHood217 on December 24, 2018, 05:38
I don't think it's possible at all.  For a hypothetical next version, I'd like to suggest the option for colored borders to indicate berserk/enviro/invul/etc. effects so the field can still be seen in normal colors.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Svankensen on December 24, 2018, 06:45
Damn, I don't think I'm up for 400+ levels of red, specially with a technician instead of a scout. I'll prolly retire this guy.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on December 24, 2018, 20:07
Well, there is a way to get rid of the red, but you might not like it.  Picking up the Dragonslayer makes you berserk for 10,000,000 actions.  I once got rid of the red by running out the timer. (https://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,8223.0.html)  :)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: BBHood217 on December 24, 2018, 20:24
That's how we learned the Apostle's true appearance... in text mode.  Graphics mode is still up in the air; maybe it's just a plain ol' yellow archvile like the regular kind, but dammit I wanna see for myself.

I guess while I'm here, I'm also gonna ask: You guys do all know that it's actually called a soulsphere, right?  Not a supercharge?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: iainuki on February 22, 2020, 14:08
I'm a total noob.  Is there a way to scroll the screen in tiles without using the mouse?  I tried using look mode but once I get outside the view screen it doesn't show me where I am.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: iainuki on March 06, 2020, 19:38
Okay, I'm less of a total noob now though I still don't know if there's a way to scroll without using the mouse in graphics mode.

I  spent some time yesterday trying for the UAC Diamond (Nightmare speedrun).  I failed spectacularly, made it as far as the Cyberdemon but without enough medpacks to survive the fight.  For the people who've done this, how many attempts did it take?  Basically, how much luck do I need to succeed?

What are the least luck-based and tedious higher badges (Platinum, Diamond, and Angelic)?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on March 07, 2020, 08:34
Depending on how much you want to use spoilers for assemblies, medals and unique/exotic items, Technician, Heroic and Armor can be all tedium. Some of the medals will still depend on luck, though, as will the drop of mods and uniques/exotics. If you can confidently play UV, Centurial Platinum should be doable too.

Check out some of Sereg's mortems too; he's cheesed his way into a lot of badge by dualing with AoOC. It's tedium meets luck, from what I understand: you spend quite the number of tries getting killed horribly (starting on Hell 1 on a high difficulty), but once it takes off the xp is insane, leveling you up at breakneck speed.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: iainuki on March 07, 2020, 19:06
I personally find that spoilers enhance my enjoyment of a game, so I am thoroughly spoiled :).

The tedium of the Technician/Heroic/Armor badges are exactly what I want to avoid.  It kind of sounds like the badges it's possible to get with any reliability top out at gold then?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on March 08, 2020, 00:20
Depends on your definition of "reliability". Quite a number of Platinum badges are not all that luck-reliant, if still very hard. Veteran and Marksman Platinum are quite doable, for example.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on March 08, 2020, 15:15
Regarding UAC Diamond, I made a video of myself achieving it once (https://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,7290.0.html) with a Blademaster build.  20 minutes is more time than you may realize, so you don't necessarily have to rush for the whole thing.  As for how many tries it took, I have 28 videos on my hard drive of attempts at it, though most of them are short and fail near the beginning.

As for easier high tier badges, Shottyman Angelic is easily the easiest Angelic badge.  Maybe try for that one next?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: khiijol on March 09, 2020, 06:04
agreed nightmare speed run with melee build isnt too bad. the cyberdemon and mastermind are pushovers against a chainsaw with berserk

veteran angelic when done with angel of max carnage isn't luck based at all really. doing a scout auto build (the mortem i posted on here is masterless but i can't recall why i went that route exactly) will get you heavy powered chainguns early on which you can usually mod into a gatling gun, one shotting a great deal of early monsters. once you get the plasma gun you can turn it into the hyperblaster which melts through all the late game stuff with no problem. the trick of nightmare is corpse placement - you'll want to kill stuff in doorways, on liquids, or on top of other corpses to get rid of them, which does require a bit of patiences in getting the feel for exactly how many shots you need to kill something, and considering knockback if you're using shotguns. max carnage makes this easier because not only are your guns stronger, but takes out the dice roll guessing
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: iainuki on March 11, 2020, 20:53
Regarding UAC Diamond, I made a video of myself achieving it once (https://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,7290.0.html) with a Blademaster build.  20 minutes is more time than you may realize, so you don't necessarily have to rush for the whole thing.  As for how many tries it took, I have 28 videos on my hard drive of attempts at it, though most of them are short and fail near the beginning.

As for easier high tier badges, Shottyman Angelic is easily the easiest Angelic badge.  Maybe try for that one next?

I had actually watched your video before my post :).  28 attempts is a lot less than I spent trying and failing to get it, so that suggests I'm just bad, and that's okay, if I die due to being dumb I deserve it.  What frustrates me is the feeling like I lost due to RNG, and 1/28 still isn't great for that---it sounds like you lost a lot of games early on.

Sounds like Shottyman Angelic, Diamond Speedrun, and Platinum Centurial are my best shots.

veteran angelic when done with angel of max carnage isn't luck based at all really. doing a scout auto build (the mortem i posted on here is masterless but i can't recall why i went that route exactly) will get you heavy powered chainguns early on which you can usually mod into a gatling gun, one shotting a great deal of early monsters. once you get the plasma gun you can turn it into the hyperblaster which melts through all the late game stuff with no problem. the trick of nightmare is corpse placement - you'll want to kill stuff in doorways, on liquids, or on top of other corpses to get rid of them, which does require a bit of patiences in getting the feel for exactly how many shots you need to kill something, and considering knockback if you're using shotguns. max carnage makes this easier because not only are your guns stronger, but takes out the dice roll guessing

Not wanting to waste time on corpse-stacking is a big part of the reason Nightmare doesn't hold much appeal for me.

Speaking of RNG, I'm sick of Phobos Base Entry.  It's so boring, and a good chunk of the configurations seem to be impossible to approach without taking a shotgun blast to the face.  I end up quitting here most of the time because it's so easy to go down to 50% health with both medkits used by the sergeants, and it's faster to just reroll it for better luck than to hope Phobos 2 gives enough health globes/medkits.  Is there some reliable way to do it so I don't have to waste so much time on it?

The other level that seems incredibly luck-based is Chained Court (after the Arena).  I have promising runs die there all the time.  Is there a reliable way to do it that doesn't take an hour?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: khiijol on March 11, 2020, 21:15
on UV chained court+ is a breeze with a melee build. other builds you'll have to play a delicate game with the barons, shooting them in the doors, lava, or close enough to the walls where you can burn them with the rocket launcher. one tactic that works decently enough of the time is rocketing a hole in the upper left corner as to not destroy the berserk packs, and just charging the barons after you get the chainsaw. it sounds kind of counterintuitive but being berserk gives you good resistance against the barons attacks, and if you can bring them down without having to use all the packs, you can save the last pack for the arena master
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: iainuki on March 14, 2020, 22:30
on UV chained court+ is a breeze with a melee build. other builds you'll have to play a delicate game with the barons, shooting them in the doors, lava, or close enough to the walls where you can burn them with the rocket launcher. one tactic that works decently enough of the time is rocketing a hole in the upper left corner as to not destroy the berserk packs, and just charging the barons after you get the chainsaw. it sounds kind of counterintuitive but being berserk gives you good resistance against the barons attacks, and if you can bring them down without having to use all the packs, you can save the last pack for the arena master

Basically you're saying that the only way to consistently beat Chained Court is with a melee build?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: khiijol on March 15, 2020, 05:26
i think its the easiest, though even without a melee build, you should use chainsaw and  a berserk pack for the end fight with the arena master because the berserk will give you really good resistances and even with out brute traits, chainsaw with berserk strength will cut through the arena master pretty quickly - just make sure to time it so it doesn't run out in the middle of combat
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: CrashGordon94 on March 21, 2020, 16:04
Okay so, I looked in the "mortem" folder in my game folder and it has loads of files from 2016 and earlier but no later even though I've played a load of games since then.

The readme in the folder says to edit the doomrl.ini file and how, but I see no such file. What's going on?

I have moved computers but I'm pretty sure I carried everything over.

And if I may ask a second question, playing Entrenchment Technician and got a Laser Rifle and a Nano Mod. I was thinking of of Eagle Eye and Intuition after Whizkid (grabbing both WK levels after my Master). If I have a Nanomachic Laser Rifle, will EE even really help? If it won't improve my damage output I'll probably just look at other Traits to boost my offence and defence further.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on March 22, 2020, 01:13
I wonder, does AoPc really require a megaton of reloading to ever get finished? I have spent a good deal of 4h this morning to be able to finish one AoPc (mind you, I went for UV AoPc, with best attempt ended at bruiser brothers, I couldn't past them even with running - maybe I'm doing it wrong?), in the end I went for AoPc+AoOC UV and did 50 more rerolls for a non-revenant start and stuff.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: CrashGordon94 on March 22, 2020, 10:34
I wonder, does AoPc really require a megaton of reloading to ever get finished? I have spent a good deal of 4h this morning to be able to finish one AoPc (mind you, I went for UV AoPc, with best attempt ended at bruiser brothers, I couldn't past them even with running - maybe I'm doing it wrong?), in the end I went for AoPc+AoOC UV and did 50 more rerolls for a non-revenant start and stuff.

I haven't done the challenge but Angel of Pacifism is marked as "Easy", I figure it might be more down to the combo you chose, that you have fewer floors and thus fewer "free" levels from heading down staircases, plus the game compensates the later start with giving you better weapons which you're now barred from using.

Sounds like a rough combos with the two compounding on each other painfully.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: CrashGordon94 on March 31, 2020, 10:43
Okay, I've got some more questions:

1) On weapon restricted/Pacifist challenges, can you still nuke with the Nuclear Plasma Rifle/Nuclear BFG/Trigun? Haven't tried it but don't want to do anything that relies on it without knowing.

2) I've tried starting Angel of Pacifism as a Scout but I can't seem to see the stairs? Angel of Red Alert says areas can't be scouted, but AoPc doesn't say that.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: LuckyDee on April 01, 2020, 00:31
2) I've tried starting Angel of Pacifism as a Scout but I can't seem to see the stairs? Angel of Red Alert says areas can't be scouted, but AoPc doesn't say that.

Yeah, that's not a bug. Stair sense was considered akin to cheating on this challenge, so it was disabled.

As for the other two, it's been too long and I never got into the game enough to give you the answers.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on April 01, 2020, 00:32
1. Yes, you can. If you find them of course. I recall being able to nuke with Trigun on AoSh.
2. Weird, it indeed is not written anywhere but really scout's stair sense is disabled on AoPc. Not sure if intended or just mis-described.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And a question at your side:
How to deal with IMPS on AoB? Anything else and I can cornershoot em into oblivion, with AoB I can only whack them, and they too often can either hit me in return (with MVm as target I'm always slower than them!) or even shoot at me while I can't see them, say if I'm hiding my @$$ behind a door shifted to the side. And they hurt, especially at level 2 and 3 when you are not yet berserking from attacks, and they are too dam many to simply ignore and try to dodge - again it's hard to dodge them without HR. Ultra-Violence implied.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: khiijol on April 01, 2020, 07:17
imps and moreso demons are definitely the biggest nuisance on early levels of AOB - if you can maneuver them in front of a sergeant and let them take care of the kill for you, this works best although a bit luck based. if you're forced to fight, go in run mode before you get into melee range, which gives you huge dodge bonuses
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: CrashGordon94 on April 02, 2020, 04:48
On mine:

1) Awesome! :)

2) Ouch, well at least I know for sure now. Will admit despite being "Easy" that's a challenge I'm struggling with.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Imps on AoB haven't given me THAT much grief but I've only played on ITYTD/HNTR so they could be a lot worse on UV. In any case, the strategy seems to be to zig-zag at him and hope for dodges (if you don't have Dodgemaster, which you won't as a Vampyre), Running helps.

On that challenge, it's typically Sergeants that give me the biggest issues of the "low end" enemies.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on April 02, 2020, 09:15
Sergeants can be lured towards a piece of armor or a medkit. You do like this:
Code: [Select]
.#
@#
./.....h
.#
Then you close the door, drop a medkit behind the door (or else you'll get shot while dropping) and back off:
Code: [Select]
.#
@#
+/.....h
.#
Then wait until a former would show its face in the door. As he does, you WHACK him! With Brute 2 and a knife, you would have some serious 85%-ish chance to oneshot him outright. Even if he'd survive, say he wears an armor and you're luring him with a medkit, he'll do a melee attack instead of shooting at you point blank, that attack deals a mere 1d3 (1-3) damage, with your default blue armor it'll get reduced to strict one. Here have another whack, stupid zombie.

Another config you might go for is like this:
Code: [Select]
..###
.@###
.+......h
To achieve this, first drop a piece of random ammo to occupy space underneath you, then a medkit - I'm not sure if the medkit would drop below at 100+ rate, however you can also drop a medkit in either position 1, 3 or 4 instead (numpad wise, the position here is 2), then a former will still be able to see and get lured to it, but it may come too broad regarding the corner and see AND shoot you, so watch it. (I'm not a good specialist at luring random stuff into melee range, har har, but I'm learning slowly)

And, you cannot lure imps like this, so I have options of either waiting out the timer hoping a nearby imp will eventually drift into the doorway, or going on the hunt and having him fireball me. Multiply this over a sheer number of UV imps - result a dead marine at about level 4. Sometimes I survive to level 6 instead, thanks to CC having a lot of zerks to let me heal up and cause some havoc, and sometimes my luck lasts to Anomaly ambush - then deteriorates. Hum.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: CrashGordon94 on April 02, 2020, 10:25
All sounds interesting, but I have to admit I don't understand the ASCII (I only play the full graphical version ever).
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on April 02, 2020, 11:30
ASCII is easy. @ is you, letters are enemies, # is a wall, / is an open door (a closed door is a +, but I deliberately skipped it because a medkit is a plus sign as well, but colored red, and IIRC this forum doesn't support coloring in code blocks) and a dot is empty space. Each character position is one tile.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on April 02, 2020, 11:40
ASCII is easy. @ is you, letters are enemies, # is a wall, / is an open door (a closed door is a +, but I deliberately skipped it because a medkit is a plus sign as well, but colored red, and IIRC this forum doesn't support coloring in code blocks) and a dot is empty space. Each character position is one tile.
And the "h" letter is the former sergeant, destined to walk face-first into your knife.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: CrashGordon94 on April 05, 2020, 12:14
I see, thank you!
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: iainuki on April 05, 2020, 20:01
What's the fastest way to get all the assemblies known so I stop getting schematics in Hell's Armory?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on April 05, 2020, 23:40
Ao100 MSc (Scavenger, Technician only) run I think. With MSc, you have an ability to disassemble stuff to uncover packs, and if you say stumble upon an onyx pack, you'll have 50% chance to build both basic assemblies with it (depending on whether you get the pack back once you disassemble say a fireshield, as that one is expendable). Otherwise, play a lot of AoCn and clear armory/lab collecting schematics.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ZicherCZ on April 06, 2020, 12:14
Just be careful - certain armor assemblies cannot be unequipped (cybernano armor springs to mind). Be sure to assemble them as the very last thing you do.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Sereg on April 06, 2020, 12:30
Yeah, you can't pull them all off in a single run, I believe there's a second "cursed" assembly out there as well, and of course some of the artifacts are too.

I actually prefer AAo666 for this, since you have much more chance to find everything.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: CrashGordon94 on April 06, 2020, 21:09
Nanofiber Skin Armor (PPN) and Cybernano Armor (PPON) are both "cursed".

According to the wiki at least, I haven't built either yet.

Can't scavengers only scrap guns and not armor though?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on April 07, 2020, 02:47
Gonna test that... as I thought you can disassemble anything modded, not just weapons. If it's not true, then you'd anyway need two onyx packs to build that tower shield and lava boots.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: CrashGordon94 on April 07, 2020, 05:42
How would you disassemble armor or melee? Because with guns it's unloading while empty.

Also found last time with a Blaster that you can scrap eligible guns as long as they're empty even if they can't be unloaded normally.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: iainuki on April 07, 2020, 14:33
Gonna test that... as I thought you can disassemble anything modded, not just weapons. If it's not true, then you'd anyway need two onyx packs to build that tower shield and lava boots.

You can definitely only disassemble weapons, I tested this as a scavenger at one point because I was curious.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: iainuki on April 11, 2020, 14:38
Is there a way to avoid every monster getting a free shot on me while exploring on Nightmare?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on April 11, 2020, 21:56
Intuition 2, then don't enter the monster's range on your turn, let them wander into your vicinity instead. I learned this trick watching one of Tormuse's videos when I finally gave up on trying to figure it out myself - even if it ended up as simple as this. That is, maneuver so that the yet-invisible monster would be marked at the very edge of your FOV, both before and after your move, thus if he'd get closer you will have the first chance to act. Doorways and ambushes aside, of course. With doorways, you would need a lure or wait until all enemies (detectable ofc) on the other side of the door are close to the wall with the door so that they won't see you entering the square with the door. With ambushes, I believe your best bet would be using phase devices prior to an ambush or right after it like in City of Skulls.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: iainuki on April 17, 2020, 16:42
Intuition 2, then don't enter the monster's range on your turn, let them wander into your vicinity instead. I learned this trick watching one of Tormuse's videos when I finally gave up on trying to figure it out myself - even if it ended up as simple as this. That is, maneuver so that the yet-invisible monster would be marked at the very edge of your FOV, both before and after your move, thus if he'd get closer you will have the first chance to act. Doorways and ambushes aside, of course. With doorways, you would need a lure or wait until all enemies (detectable ofc) on the other side of the door are close to the wall with the door so that they won't see you entering the square with the door. With ambushes, I believe your best bet would be using phase devices prior to an ambush or right after it like in City of Skulls.

I definitely don't have any trouble doing it with Intuition 2.  (This is why I end up playing so many scouts, and often go Intuition 2 as my first traits.)  I'm trying to figure out how to do without Intuition 2, for all the challenges where I can't have that.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: ih8regin on April 17, 2020, 22:51
I'm trying to figure out how to do without Intuition 2, for all the challenges where I can't have that.
Is there any, besides radar shooting with a shotgun and listening for screams?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on April 18, 2020, 00:00
Also, lots of waiting by doorways or around blind corners such that you can see them coming before they see you.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: iainuki on April 22, 2020, 23:19
Also, lots of waiting by doorways or around blind corners such that you can see them coming before they see you.

On Nightmare, does this demand that you've done perfect corpse disposal beforehand?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: Tormuse on April 24, 2020, 04:39
That would be ideal, but it's not always practical.  When I'm establishing myself at the beginning of a level, I sometimes have to prioritize who I dispose of, and any enemies that I can just one-shot, I kill them where they stand and focus more on getting rid of the corpses of larger enemies, then come back to getting rid of the smaller ones when they revive later.  I'm not saying this is necessarily the ideal strategy or anything, but that's how my Nightmare games usually play out.
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: iainuki on April 27, 2020, 21:44
That would be ideal, but it's not always practical.  When I'm establishing myself at the beginning of a level, I sometimes have to prioritize who I dispose of, and any enemies that I can just one-shot, I kill them where they stand and focus more on getting rid of the corpses of larger enemies, then come back to getting rid of the smaller ones when they revive later.  I'm not saying this is necessarily the ideal strategy or anything, but that's how my Nightmare games usually play out.

Another related quick question on Nightmare: spending lots of time waiting speeds up the respawn rate.  Is it just always better to spend time waiting for enemies around blind corners and doing tedious corpse disposal tasks, even though this will speed up respawns?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: iainuki on April 28, 2020, 15:16
I've watched the videos of Tormuse and frozenca/papilio doing Hell Arena on UV/N! with a pistol or melee weapon, but in trying to replicate them, I've completely failed.  When I looked at the mortems, though, they and other people seem to be able to do Hell Arena in AoB/AoMr on UV/N!.  However, every time I try I end up running out of HP and dying.  What's the trick to it?
Title: Re: Quick questions thread!
Post by: iainuki on May 27, 2020, 21:57
In some of Tormuse's mortems for AAoRA, I've seen that that he's visited Hell's Armory at least.  I know how to do Deimos Lab in AAoRA, but I haven't figured out the trick to getting to the important parts of Hell's Armory in time.  What's the trick?