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196
Requests For Features / Barrels in The Wall
« on: September 28, 2007, 16:46 »
Because I got The Wall at level 13 after I figured I must've skipped it and traded my rocket launcher in for a BFG in Halls of Carnage and now I'm totally gonna cry. ;_;
197
Requests For Features / Re: A Much Simpler Request Than the Last One
« on: September 28, 2007, 15:34 »1: A bird doesn't have much HP's y'know. Also, if we're talking 'bout real shotties here, bear in mind the difference between scatter shells and solid slugs.I'm talking about scatter shells, dude. You don't hunt birds with slugs, I'm pretty sure those are mainly for target shooting and big game. The "scatter" is not really that wide. The numbers I get from Wikipedia are 2-1/2 feet wide at 63 feet away.
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2,3: If you beat the game with a knife, or on Nightmare! THEN I'll believe you have the right to judge better than Blade on wether something is weak or not :P.My assessment was before Triggerhappy, which I never found because I stopped taking SoaB when I found out it was broken. If I had known it was there, (thought it had been removed, since it's not in the wiki) I probably would've won by now. @_@
198
Requests For Features / Re: Weapon/Trait Overhaul
« on: September 28, 2007, 14:02 »TH requires SoaB2. And TH is strong....
This wiki sucks.
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For gameplay, not very interesting, how treeperks work.None of those things are affected by any of the others, and the structure is not trying to imply that they are. The reason I made the trees that way is because they focus on weapon specialization. At the bottom are the things which benefit all characters about equally, and further up are things that give more benefit to a character using the weapon type that tree is made for.
For roleplay, some links are unclear. I don't understand, why reloader requires SoaB, why Demoman requires reloader, and why TaN requres HR:
Soab - you better shot, but how does it affect ability to reload?
Demoman - how does ability to reload affect bursts?
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And more perks - more fun.This is entirely subjective. When there are too many things to choose from, all it does is make that choice harder. What's really the best thing to do for my play style? The only way to find out is to experiment. According to you though, I shouldn't be allowed to experiment without dying five hundred times and not having anyway to know if it was my build or my method or my luck that was the problem. The game, as you want it to be, is unplayable garbage suitable only for the most OCD and the hardest of cores. That's not fun, it's frustrating, and it makes me want to go do something else.
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About "balanse" - perfect balanse = no perks; and in games such are Diablo2 and Fallout perks are disbalanced, but that games are great because threre are many perks in them. (And other features, of course)This doesn't mean that balance shouldn't even be attempted. The entire point of perks is customization. If some perks are much more powerful than others, then you can't actually customize with them, because you're gimping your character. Making most of the stuff roughly equal in power is very important if you want customization rather than flat progression.
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TaN only when you reach CL2.In my experience, a successful (not necessarily winning, but a good run) character usually has CL2 before, or sometimes about midway through, Hell's Arena. Demons are not a problem until after that.
And hellrunner is almost useless when fighting demons. Which means hard to access CL2.
199
Requests For Features / Re: A Much Simpler Request Than the Last One
« on: September 28, 2007, 12:36 »
1: You don't understand physics. If you're talking about a real shotgun, then sure, you're getting hit by the same amount of lead. And in fact, that's true if you're several dozen yards away, or else you wouldn't be able to use a shotgun to hunt birds. They fly in the air, you know. We're not talking about a real one though, we're talking about a movie shotgun that has a frikkin' 120 degree spread. You'd better believe that thing is going to have some variance in how much you take.
2: Shotguns are not weak. If you make them anymore powerful, the double shotgun will basically be a BFG with a hundred shots worth of ammo.
3: Shotguns are already weak enough at distance that it can be a tough choice between them and chainguns. Make their damage scale anymore, and you'll have to carry both around. I don't know about you, but there's not enough room in my backpack for that.
2: Shotguns are not weak. If you make them anymore powerful, the double shotgun will basically be a BFG with a hundred shots worth of ammo.
3: Shotguns are already weak enough at distance that it can be a tough choice between them and chainguns. Make their damage scale anymore, and you'll have to carry both around. I don't know about you, but there's not enough room in my backpack for that.
200
Pre-0.9.9 / Re: [M|AoB|100%|Idiot]
« on: September 27, 2007, 23:56 »
That's what I usually try to do, actually. That doesn't work either. I've been trying it this way to see if I get enough XP for Berserker to take some of the edge off.
PS: If you're wondering why it doesn't work, it's because for some reason my level four is almost always a Lost Soul cave. ;_;
PS: If you're wondering why it doesn't work, it's because for some reason my level four is almost always a Lost Soul cave. ;_;
201
Pre-0.9.9 / [M|AoB|100%|2] Idiot
« on: September 27, 2007, 23:35 »
By the skin of my teeth and sheer luck, I managed to clear a 2nd level that had a flat out retarded number of guys, all clustered together (notice the huge pile of junk near the middle of the map) so that it was basically a miracle of tactical prowess that I survived on the eight medpacks and three or four health globes I burned through. At the end of it all, I was at 14%. Figuring I was screwed next floor anyway, I decided it couldn't hurt to find out what that lever the last sergeant was standing on did.
It didn't make me feel any less stupid. :(
If you're wondering, my character's name is 20 because that's the number of AoB runs I've had this streak without seeing the Chained Court. The number is actually kind of low, I finally had one sometime yesterday.
[Edit: corrected the mortem info in topic's subject]
It didn't make me feel any less stupid. :(
--------------------------------------------------------------
DoomRL (v.0.9.8.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------
20, level 2 Imp Sergeant, killed by something...
on level 2 of the Phobos base.
He survived 3502 turns and scored 2778 points.
He didn't like it too rough.
He killed 22 out of 22 hellspawn. (100%)
This ass-kicking marine killed all of them!
He was an Angel of Berserk!
-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------
###########################################################
#......#..==....................0....#...........#...0.....
#..=...#..===......0.................#...........#.........
#..=..=#.=.=.........................#...........#.........
#....=.#.==..........................#.........#.#.........
#...=..#=0...........................#...........#.........
#......=.............................#0..........#...}.....
#......#.............................#....}....#.#.....|...
#......#..........................}..#...}.|...#.#.......>.
#......+...........0..............}}}#....|....#.#.........
##/#####.......................}}||}|#\........#.###/######
#======#........................|}||||}........#./.........
#======##+==############################/#########.....}}..
#======#...=..0.....................0............#.....}%..
#=X====#..=.===..................................#.....|..0
#======#...=====...........0.....................#.........
#======######====############+#+##############+###.........
#==|===#.......==..........|.....................#.........
#==}&==#.......===.......0.......................#.........
###########################################################
-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------
Health -1/50 Experience 523/2
ToHit +0 ToDmg Ranged +0 ToDmg Melee +6
-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------
Brute (Level 2)
Bru->Bru->
-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------
[a] [ Armor ] green armor [0/1] (48%)
[b] [ Weapon ] combat knife (1d6)
[c] [ Boots ] nothing
[d] [ Prepared ] combat knife (1d6)
-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------
-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------
11 former humans
2 former sergeants
5 imps
-- History ---------------------------------------------------
He started his journey on the surface of Phobos.
On level 2 he finally was killed by something...
-- Messages --------------------------------------------------
You hit the imp. The imp hits you. The imp hits you.
You hit the imp. The imp dies. You advance to level 2! <Enter>
The former sergeant fires! Your green armor is damaged!
The former sergeant reloads his shotgun.
You miss the former sergeant. The former sergeant misses you.
You hit the former sergeant. The former sergeant hits you.
You miss the former sergeant. The former sergeant misses you.
You hit the former sergeant. The former sergeant dies. You feel
relatively safe now.
There is a lever here.
You pull the lever... The ground explodes in flames! There is a lever here.
Argh!!! Lava! There is shotgun shell (x29) lying here.
Argh!!! Lava!
Argh!!! Lava!
Argh!!! Lava! You die!...
-- General ---------------------------------------------------
Before him 97 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
92 of those were killed.
2 of those were killed by something unknown.
And 3 couldn't handle the stress and commited a stupid suicide.
--------------------------------------------------------------If you're wondering, my character's name is 20 because that's the number of AoB runs I've had this streak without seeing the Chained Court. The number is actually kind of low, I finally had one sometime yesterday.
[Edit: corrected the mortem info in topic's subject]
202
Requests For Features / Re: Weapon/Trait Overhaul
« on: September 27, 2007, 15:14 »Ok, here's an example :Dude, the lever sense is important. It's honestly the main reason I get Intuition. I have had some nasty situations completely turned around by finding a health station at the right time.
I'm going to create an auto-weapon char. In 9.8.7. I take Eagle eye (for greater hit chance in coward tactics), Son Of A Bitch (for greater damage) and Triggerhappy (for faster shooting). If I have any skill points left, then I take Ironman or Tough as Nails. That build works well (***will*** work, when SoaB gets fixed), each trait here is useful for me. On level 12 my char is fully functional.
Your trait system version :
To take Eagle Eye, I must take at least one level of Intuition (for what, I ask ? I don't wanna be a sniper, and taking only one level of Int has not much sense. It will not give any great stuff).
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Then I can take Eagle Eye on level 2 (few of mine chars proably will get killed because of that I'll not hit anyone. My friggin' luck. But I can say is that lever nice or bad ! Great.)Keyword is "few." Eagle Eye is NOT important until you get the chaingun. I almost never die before I get one unless I screw up really badly on Hell's Arena. If you can't make it to CL2 before you need a chaingun, Eagle Eye won't save you.
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Then, I'll take SoaB for greater damage. On level 6 I can take Bullet Hose (ONLY ONE level ? This gives 10 bullets to fire each turn, with Triggerhappy (3) I fire 14 with my PR).Am I the only person who has noticed that Triggerhappy doesn't exist anymore? I keep seeing people mentioning that, but I've never seen it on my list no matter what I take, and it's not on the wiki anywhere at all.
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I'll then proably take another 2 levels of EE. On level 9 I can finally pump myself up with TaN... if I'll take hellrunner (1) first. Dammit, I'm a walking tank, not a ninja ! On level 10 I finally get my beloved TaN & Ironman in one (Aye, that's the idea.). My plan is finished on level 12. This char has better armor, health, lower firing speed, can sense levers and better avoid bullets.He also has more damage and knockback from the new SoaB, (more damage than you would get from current SoaB if it worked, I might add) and increased sight range from the new EE. That "lower firing speed" is double the rate of a normal chaingun, and much better than you can do currently since there isn't any Triggerhappy. That's by CL3.
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See ? In current version you can't have everything. This makes you choose one way you'll show these bastards. And here you can be a stealthy guy, a heavy support and a sniper in one person. And it is where all that fun is lost.Make up your mind. Is it not fun because you can "have everything" or is it not fun because it's "underpowered?" You can't claim both of these things. The only complaint you have that really stands up is that you get TaN late. Now, for one thing, the order of Hellrunner and TaN could easily be switched, it really doesn't matter which one of those is first. Hell, I'd be for making them both available at start and you just have to have one of each to open up the melee stuff. That might even be an appropriate approach for all the trees. The main problem, however, is still with your build. Why did you get TaN at level 9? Because you stopped to get the other two levels of EE first. For your build, I would actually say that the best order is to specialize late. HR->TaN->Int->EE->etc. EE would be coming a little bit late, but it's not like you need it right away when you get your chaingun, and you seriously don't need the damage from SoaB until later on. Think about it: if you did, how could this game be playable while SoaB is broken? It can't be that important.
Gloating about your way of thinking is kind of silly when you're ignoring several key facts.
203
Requests For Features / Re: Weapon/Trait Overhaul
« on: September 27, 2007, 12:43 »
I've hit CL6 enough times to figure out it's right around 13-15. I often have Intuition maxed and am carrying around a bunch of cool stuff, and the area is still barely survivable. Having a bit extra won't break the game, though my initial number for Hellrunner is a bit much. 15% like Potman said is better.
Using termin "damage dice" in perks IMHO also isn't good.What?
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Only 12 perks is bad - in current version, there are 18 perks.I don't see why. That they work and interact well is much more important than having alot of them.
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Only 3 perks at start is bad - it decreases game replayability.That is most certainly not true. Replayability is already barely affected by traits at all. There are only a few that it makes any sense to take at the beginning of the game, because of the power of the ones that lie at the end of the chains. This proposition will increase replayability by making specialization more intuitive and somewhat more flexible. People will be encouraged to experiment with chains they might not necessarily use for a while because of what they pick up, but it won't kill them because most of what they buy will provide some use regardless of equipment.
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No Brute at the beginning AoB is bad - AoB already hard at start.A higher Hellrunner and the new TaN should make survival to CL3, when you have the choice of the Brute effect or dual wield, about as doable as getting to CL3 in AoB currently is, if not a bit moreso.
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About "demolition" perk - it isn't good perk. Current splash radius already big; if it increases, it means that the player more hit himself and more destroy good items. It's VERY bad.Yeah, hadn't considered that. A real demoman is about precision, though... What about a perk that reduces the chance of item destruction when using explosives?
IMHO, trees destroy many possibilities to "make" your marine, which is a big part of fun in DoomRL...Okay... Why do you think it does that? That's kind of an important piece of information, here. It seems to me that well-made trees make customization easier, for one because the options available will interact better due to having some planning behind them, and allowing for unique build order that doesn't make you a complete gimp when you get the wrong stuff. Currently running down the shotgun line is suicide if you have to wait until Hell's Armory to find a doublegun, and taking EE before you find an early one means you've completely wasted two points unless you resolve to stick it out with your chaingun until you miraculously discover a plasma rifle. The new tree sets things up in a way that you can make a "mistake" without it being a total loss. You can have a decent shotty and a decent chaingun, or you can pick one and make it really awesome.
204
Requests For Features / Re: New Special Level?
« on: September 27, 2007, 12:25 »
I think it would be better to put strange things like this in the form of unlockables. Weird, tricksy secrets are kind of fun, but I can't think of any that wouldn't seem dumb and arbitrary in this particular game.
Though I have thought periodically that Kornel should make his name a code of some kind. :p
Though I have thought periodically that Kornel should make his name a code of some kind. :p
205
Requests For Features / Re: Weapon/Trait Overhaul
« on: September 27, 2007, 05:38 »
One thing I've been kind of kicking around.
We make lots of chatter about how stealth is undoomish, but what do you think the "long wait" key is? Doom actually had an item that gave you near-invisibility, but I sure as hell can't think of any time while playing it that I lied in wait for anything. It was all about taking the fight to the enemy. On that note, I support items, traits, or other mechanics that give the player some limited stealth because it encourages more aggressive, Doom-like play.
We make lots of chatter about how stealth is undoomish, but what do you think the "long wait" key is? Doom actually had an item that gave you near-invisibility, but I sure as hell can't think of any time while playing it that I lied in wait for anything. It was all about taking the fight to the enemy. On that note, I support items, traits, or other mechanics that give the player some limited stealth because it encourages more aggressive, Doom-like play.
206
Requests For Features / Re: A Much Simpler Request Than the Last One
« on: September 27, 2007, 03:08 »
Hit location systems are annoyingly complex, a bitch to code, and somewhat off-flavor I think. What I am suggesting is basically your first suggestion, except that I don't want extra damage. That would be crits, and I don't think we need crits here. I'll explain this with a simplified model, since I don't know the ins and outs of DoomRL's specific system.
Let's say that to determine whether you hit something or not, you roll a d20, and hit on 11 or better. If your weapon does 1-10 damage, then rolling an 11 always does one, rolling 12 always does two, and so on, until a perfect hit scores max damage. With a trait increasing your chance to hit, you basically bring up the floor. At +4, 7 or better counts as a hit, and you score max damage on 16 or higher.
Note that distance still affects shotguns in basically the same way it does now, since there is a distance penalty on to-hit rolls. It might be slightly less extreme unless damage for weak hits were scaled down quite sharply, though.
Let's say that to determine whether you hit something or not, you roll a d20, and hit on 11 or better. If your weapon does 1-10 damage, then rolling an 11 always does one, rolling 12 always does two, and so on, until a perfect hit scores max damage. With a trait increasing your chance to hit, you basically bring up the floor. At +4, 7 or better counts as a hit, and you score max damage on 16 or higher.
Note that distance still affects shotguns in basically the same way it does now, since there is a distance penalty on to-hit rolls. It might be slightly less extreme unless damage for weak hits were scaled down quite sharply, though.
207
Requests For Features / Re: A Much Simpler Request Than the Last One
« on: September 27, 2007, 02:42 »
Right, I got that, just... I think there should be a little bit more of a happy medium. There's "not supposed to be easy," and then there's "quit 30 times in a row to get more than two medpacks and then die before the Chained Court anyway because you walked* into five Lost Souls on level four."
*Or spawned for that matter. Happened to me twice tonight! ;_;
*Or spawned for that matter. Happened to me twice tonight! ;_;
208
Requests For Features / Re: A Much Simpler Request Than the Last One
« on: September 27, 2007, 02:08 »
Yeah, I could tell it was, based on how a full spray from the MP5 can sometimes leave a juvenile dark green if you don't wait for them to get right up in your face. I think you may have overdone it a tiny bit in Aliens, actually. @_@
PS: Though I have to admit, for all my frustration with that game, its idiosyncrasies really do make it feel like Aliens. (Or I think it does, anyway. I haven't watched most of those since I was too young to remember.) You have a real knack for flavorful design, and alot of my whining is just trying to find a balance between that flavor and general playability. I mean, there's nothing more unDoomish than getting bored and leaving because you've started numbering your AoB attempts. :p
PS: Though I have to admit, for all my frustration with that game, its idiosyncrasies really do make it feel like Aliens. (Or I think it does, anyway. I haven't watched most of those since I was too young to remember.) You have a real knack for flavorful design, and alot of my whining is just trying to find a balance between that flavor and general playability. I mean, there's nothing more unDoomish than getting bored and leaving because you've started numbering your AoB attempts. :p
209
Requests For Features / Re: A Much Simpler Request Than the Last One
« on: September 27, 2007, 00:16 »
Disagree! Even if it is, in most cases, the more logical way to do things, in a system which is purposefully more game than sim, it can be fun. In systems where attack effects are generally homogenous, as is usually the case, it is also often just more expedient. The problem is that it breaks down when you get something like what we have here, with weapons that use fundamentally different mechanics, a rather unusual thing for a roguelike.
210
Requests For Features / Re: A Much Simpler Request Than the Last One
« on: September 26, 2007, 23:58 »
I actually do like damage dice. Enough, in fact, that I would still want the damage ranges represented as xdy even though that's no longer the operating mechanic. It just feels fun somehow, even if there are some systems (case in point!) where it isn't appropriate. I just think that this particular game, as a result of the way shotguns work and how that affects trait choice, would benefit from this alternate damage model.