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46

Berserk! / Re: Endless/Massacre : Request for Ideas

« on: January 17, 2007, 03:56 »

Hills should also give you a to hit/dmg bonus for higher ground and negative bonus for being lower then your opponent. Water could make dodging harder for both you and your enemies.

I like this terrain ideas!

Perhaps make reloading possible while berserking only when you have no fairydust left?

In my opinion, having to spend a trait and some energy every time you want to reload while berserk sounds balanced, but yours could be another idea for it.

My thoughts on the skill suggestions:
What I blelieve is that Berserk doesn't need an infinite list of different skills (of course, this is just my opinion), but a relatively small list of different and tactically valuable attack/movement skills. But another thing I also understand is that this is brainstorming, and the whole point of it is that everything that comes to mind should be said, even if it doesn't make any sense at first, it can always help someone else get another idea.

Actually, you ideas on "improvable traits" sound very good. And they wouldn't help to not clutter the keyboard with thousand of letters in order to use all the skills.

47

Pre-0.9.9 / Re: [U|AoMr|95%|Win] I finally got my UV AoMr Win

« on: January 17, 2007, 03:29 »

Congratulations!

Killing Cyberdemon with the Pea Shooter(tm) is really something incredible! And in UV no less!

48

Berserk! / Re: Endless/Massacre : Request for Ideas

« on: January 16, 2007, 13:51 »

Duh! I didn't even make an official release, and already people are scheming to overthrow me? ^_^

Kiddin' of course -- there would be no greater honour for a roguelike developer, then if his game spawned a variant that would be successful. And it would be the first such case in the post-crawl roguelike world :)

If your game gets a variant it means people are really interested in it!

@Bored on Berserk -- sorry I can't imagine being bored on Berserk :P. What I like about Berserk is the fact that it's a double edged sword, and that sometimes it's a nuiscance. I can't put into the game the main disadvantage of Berserk from the manga (friend or foe) so I try in other ways to make berserk a double edged weapon. There will be traits usable only OUTSIDE berserk in the future :). But I don't completely forgoe the chance of a Willpower based trait that would allow you to reload on berserk.

Ok, I concede :)

Thinking about it, in fact it's cool that it's a double-edged sword, so I see your point. And if there is room for a trait that lets you reload while berserkering (for an energy cost, of course) then we're on the same track :D

@Energy replenishing -- the only additional way to replenish energy that I think might be berserkish, would be a trait that for a formidable amount of HP would replenish your energy and maybe even remove the pain. Why HP cost? To show that Gutts is burning his body! But I'm not that sure of it yet... what do you think?

Hmm... could work - but don't let it replenish Pain. I think it's better to have a way of getting rid of pain instead of running (spending energy), as I said before. Feels more like you are one crazy man taking his last chances against hell! Maybe restrict it so you can only use it when berserk at lower levels, and finally be able to use it outside of berserk when at the highest trait level? Of course, using it outside berserk should cost you more energy - you need to concentrate more and you are not as crazy :P

@Defence when standing still -- standing still is not doing nothing -- if Gutts stops attacking that means he focuses on defence, right? ^_^

I see that point, but I see that, from a gaming perspective, it makes little sense...

BTW, I had a crazy, and probably unimplementable (yet?) idea -- character choice! :P

Berserker (Gatsu)
Fencer (Serpico, pre-eclipse Griffiths, pre-Gatsu Farnese )
Witch (Schierke, Flora, post-Gutts Farnese)

I only added "classes" that would give realy different play experiences. There could be a few more unlockable after game completion:

Forsaken (Skull Knight)
Beast (Zodd)
Apostole (kheh ;])

In the last two cases, the objective of the campaign mode would be slightly different ^^.

Note that that WOULD allow for weapon choice, and a lot of other character choices... but I'm afraid that's a little out of scope... or maybe?

Go. For. It. This idea is just genius!

I think it would be better to focus on it later, when Campaign is implemented, though...

49

Berserk! / Re: Endless/Massacre : Request for Ideas

« on: January 16, 2007, 12:58 »

We should keep track of "Nice things that Kornel will never\shouldn't bother trying to  do" and save them for the branch. Would you mind lending a hand in brainstorming what is there to be done after sources are released?

Of course not! I feel honoured, I love sharing ideas! :)

50

Berserk! / Re: Endless/Massacre : Request for Ideas

« on: January 16, 2007, 12:55 »

Just some more ideas to argue a bit more:P

Now to traits -- here are come general comments. With the ONLY exception of Ironman (which is only there for reasons of fallback in case no other skills are available for choice) I'd like to keep it the way that ALL skills have a direct visual representation in the game, and are not just modifying some invisible statistics (like most of the traits in DoomRL). Why? It's more fun that way.

Well, then just DO a graphical representation when using ALL the skills:P Do an animation or whatever, and then the game will be more open to new ideas :)

Defense IS increased when not attcking ;]. It is increased a little if moving, and more if not doing anything :P.

Really, what's the point of having more defense when standing still?

* Gatsu is surrounded by a pack of Mandragores and skeletons
Gatsu says "Heh, they think they can kill me, but I'll stand right there doing nothing and they shall die of boredom!"

I think defense should be increased when running more than when standing still...

Just my opinion, though :P

51

Berserk! / Re: Endless/Massacre : Request for Ideas

« on: January 16, 2007, 12:41 »

@New weapons -- sorry, but my vision of Berserk! doesn't tolerate anything else except the Dragonslayer.

Well, that's bad - less tactical choices. But still it's your game, so do whatever you want :)

@New terrain types -- Yes, those will be in -- along with a more important role of terrain in thge tactics.

Cool.

@Improvement -- I favor one point with cut price over two points. Two points just presents needles complication imho.

I think it represents the same complication. Also, with cut price, willpower will have to be balanced so that it would cost 2 points now... so I think both ways are almost equal.

About Berserk/Energy-affecting skills -- a no-no. Berserk and Energy are too important parts of the game, so any skill affecting them would be by definition overpowered. Also any control over Berserking will be bad, because it will take away the feeling of chas and carnage -- the untamed wild bloodshed that happens in Berserk mode ;]. Berserk is not to be controlled or it will loose it's uniqueness (contrary to what the guy in that post said, Berserk!'s Berserk mode is VERY unique -- I'll post an explanation on my blog when 0.8 comes out).

The problem with this is that you are effectively negating players to invest lots of points in willpower - one game I became BORED of being berserk the whole time because I couldn't reload anything, so I decided to let the 4/5 mandragores remaining kill me - I was at 6 hp without Fairydusts left, and with lots of crossbow ammo.

Also replenishing of Energy should be unaffected by skills -- energy is a timer which balances special attacks. Any modifing of the recharge rate will be VERY hard to balance. And will add to needless complication.

I see your point. No energy replenishing rate touched, then :)

Pain is also something unique to Berserk, and I don't want to provide any way to get rid of it -- it keeps the player moving.

Huh? You want to be (kind of) true to Berserk!, you don't want more weapons other than Gatsu's standard sword, you want to give the player a "berserk" mode in which all they can do is kill kill and kill some more in melee, yet you want the player to start running away like a chicken to recover from his wounds? I can't see Gatsu ever running away from combat so often :P

Also, having a way in which to take a some pain out at the cost of energy, keeps pain in the game, because you must run away to recover or use this skill to stay and fight like a true berserker :P

**EDIT Note that the idea suggested doesn't take out ALL the pain. So you'd still ave to run in some circumstances /EDIT**

Multistrike traits -- for this we have the speed system! Double strikes are just two fast strikes.

Yeah, this is nice.

Regarding attacks, it would be really nice to see some kind of animation when you do a special move. It would make the game funnier, in my opinion :)

52

Berserk! / Re: Endless/Massacre : Request for Ideas

« on: January 16, 2007, 12:09 »

"I wasn't thinking of this as an uber-skill. Just that it lets you ignore from 1 to 3 (for instance) pain points penalty for an energy cost"

Generally, Energy is used for running; if you are surrounded, you aren't going to run anyway; so it temporarily makes you immune to pain in dire straits.

On the other hand, it offers a rather curious alternative to running away...

If you do apply that skill, it takes some time. So running away is always a good idea - it just lets you enter into combat quicker. But, you are right, it might be interesting to see a build based on not running but spending energy on staying and hitting everyone hard enough - until you have no energy, and then you are pretty much doomed :P

Also, that attitude seems "berserkerish" (OMG NEW WORD) to me :P

"But I'll do it in the style that when you get exhausted, your maximum energy becomes lower, until you slowly regain exhaustion again"

That sounds reasonable. Do you think that no penalty to regeneration should be applied at all?

I think that it depends on what the skills that cause exhaustion do. If they are powerful enough, the downside would have to be more severe.

Also, having less total energy can really be a pain in some circumstances.

53

Berserk! / Re: Berserk! 0.8 - Release Candidate 3

« on: January 16, 2007, 12:03 »

I just tried this new version, and I had like 4 phasehounds on day 1:P I won't post the mortem as I feel ahsamed of living only 2 days - but I'll take a try again when I have some more time and post something :)

EDIT: In fact, should I be given the option of what I create for my first exam, my first project will be a Warhammer 40k/Space Hulk RL. Wish me luck all, and some of you (such as Adral) should expect some pvt messages asking about any fluff or backstory I may be missing. :)

Good luck with that. And don't be afraid to ask - I'll try to help with whatever I can, for the Holy Emperor of Mankind! :P

54

Berserk! / Re: Endless/Massacre : Request for Ideas

« on: January 16, 2007, 11:45 »

"and lets you increase your berserk state when out of the rage, also for an energy cost."

Too powerful.

Yeah you are right. I just thought of it and quickly wrote it :P

"- Dodge stance - dex req. When you enter dodge stance you have a greater dodge chance but every time you are hit or you would have been hit (so, in fact, every time you get attacked), some amount of energy is consumed."

Some nerfing needed, I think.

Yep, but if the energy cost is high enough, it might work. Also note that consumes energy whether you are hit or not.

"- Pain immunity - endurance and/or willpower req. For a energy cost, you are able to recover some pain penalty instantly."

Hmm... I wonder if we need some kind of "Exhaustion" meter in a style of "Pain" - it accumulates points, slowly dissipates, and decreases stamina regeneration (and maybe speed\accuracy\etc) - increases when Extreme skills are used.

I wasn't thinking of this as an uber-skill. Just that it lets you ignore from 1 to 3 (for instance) pain points penalty for an energy cost.

The Exhaustion gauge might work - higher tier skills might just get some exhaustion. But I'll do it in the style that when you get exhausted, your maximum energy becomes lower, until you slowly regain exhaustion again. What do you think?

55

Berserk! / Re: Endless/Massacre : Request for Ideas

« on: January 16, 2007, 11:27 »

Well, I'll throw my trait ideas too:

- Will of Iron - willpower req. Lets you get out of berserk rage for an energy cost, and lets you increase your berserk state when out of the rage, also for an energy cost. [EDIT]: Even better, instead of letting you slip out of berserk rage, it lets you reload your weapons when berserkering. [/EDIT]
- Bloodlust - willpower req. Lets you enter berserk state sooner (i.e. 55% of health remaining instead of 50% at level 1)
- Dodge stance - dex req. When you enter dodge stance you have a greater dodge chance but every time you are hit or you would have been hit (so, in fact, every time you get attacked), some amount of energy is consumed.
- Pain immunity - endurance and/or willpower req. For a energy cost, you are able to recover some pain penalty instantly.
- Aggressive stance - strength req. When you enter aggressive stance, you deal more damage and have more accuracy, but each hit you give consumes energy

56

Berserk! / Re: Endless/Massacre : Request for Ideas

« on: January 16, 2007, 10:52 »

Ok, you were totally asking for this! Now you'll have to read yet another gigantic post of Adral! MWA HA HA HA HA

Note that some ideas might be repeated here, as I find them interesting :)

Ideas for Endless/ Massacre:

New terrain types, with more tactical choices:
- Castles, with rooms and such (sorta like DoomRL)
- Swamps (already suggested)
- Fields terrain generator with hills and rivers
- Forest with river/lake (randomly appears)
- Caves, with pseudo-natural creation

- Make some terrain indestructible
- Already noted: having some terrain influence your movement speed is a good idea - more tactical decisions

New monsters:
- TFoN and I really provided some ideas on other thread. I'll try to post more if I have some :)
- Monsters that are cannon fodder are nice -> don't make all monsters almost impossible to kill, that would just be annoying.
- Thematical monsters sound really nice! But don't make all monsters thematical - skeletons should be skeletons everywhere, for instance.

New skills/traits:
- New skills greatly improve the replayability of the game. I'll start a thread with my ideas there to not clutter this one, if you are interested on reading them.
- Balance issues - Sweep [3] is not that great, for instance.

New weapons:
- Already suggested before. Many people just find that a tactical roguelike action is about "choosing the best ranged attack" (magic/missile/etc). Prove them wrong: add new melee weapons (switchable) with different properties, so you actually have to think about what to use on the next turns for melee.
--For instance :  Axe, deals more damage than sword but is less accurate
                       Great Mace, greatly improves knockback and also improves damage a bit, but is slower
                       Spear, less damage but more accurate than sword

So every time you have to think whether to switch weapons (which cost you time) or stay with the one you have. Also, it might make for some special resistances or vulnerabilities on monsters - skeletons are immediately destroyed with axe or mace but untouched with spear, etc. You could start fully equipped or they would be unlockable each game, and you'll only start with the sword.
In this example, sword would be the "basic" weapon.

Character:
- Improvement feels a bit slow for endless game. Give the player 2 points every day. Note that this needs serious testing - if the game becomes very long it would fall on the boring side again.
- Already noted: killing some monsters takes forever :P

Also, as a side note, if Campaign isn't going to be winnable then... it might feel like a waste of time playing. People like to spend time in something they can win. But since I don't really know your exact plans on this, I'll trust in your intuition :)

57

Requests For Features / Re: Save anytime

« on: January 15, 2007, 15:41 »

Blade: I cannot see your point also. But I think nobody proposed save/load, in the typical sense: I understood it as a "save anytime you want like in nethack", which is fine to me.

Here:

I think the game would benefit greatly from being able to save anytime like in nethack or rogue.

Kornel: Yes, I understand. I NEVER savescummed. Never, not even playing Adom, Nethack, Crawl... I know that if the game is built to play it in a way, it's because it's best that way. I know it hurts when you die, but surely you also learn a lot from those deaths. That's why I favour permadeath. I don't want save/load (in the classical sense) on a roguelike EVER.

But I also understand that people will always savescum, and if they get their best enjoyment from a game that way, then you really can't do anything about it. It's really all a matter of opinion, after all. That's why I say that it would be best to focus in what the people that play the game as intended want - after all savescum is cheating, and if savescummers want to do it, let them do it - just don't brag about it. It's not like it's an online game, where your actions (cheating) cost the other players enjoyment.

And if coding it is really so hard, I'm all in for better AI :P Saving on every moment just would be nice from when I'm in a quick run on the game and don't have time to finish the current level.

Of course, save on every moment != save/load.

58

Requests For Features / Re: Save anytime

« on: January 15, 2007, 14:54 »

Sounds to me that would make savescumming too potent.
I suggest making autosave .ini definable, so that it will save before you go down stairs.
Yeah, you might have to then start a level over, but roguelikes are cruel that way :P

Actually, this also sounds as a good idea. Having to repeat a level might even have some benefits... :P

Note that this can also be savescummed, but I think that if people really want to savescum, then they'll find a way around whatever option that is set. I think we're better putting options for people who want to play normal, and if someone savescum it's just because they wanted to.

While they state they did it at their mortems, I have no problems with savescumming, though.

59

Requests For Features / Re: Save anytime

« on: January 15, 2007, 14:43 »

I second this feature, if possible. Sometimes you have to leave the computer and most times then you have to skip part of the level to find the stairs.

Edit: Now makes more sense:P

60

Berserk! / Re: Berserk! 0.8 - Release Candidate 2

« on: January 15, 2007, 11:41 »

Berserk! just got bashed on rec.games.roguelike.misc -- anyone willing to defend it is encouraged to post :).

Heh, I think it will pretty much degenerate into a flamewar if not taken with caution. So I prefer not to post anything there. My Terminator armour may fail it's salvation roll against flame, and then I'd have to wield my trusty heavy flamer, for the Emperor. :P

My opinion, in case anyone is interested, is this:

I never noticed that anyone said you are a "god" of RLs. I mean, you are actually good and have nice ideas, but different people just have different opinions. What I like in your games (or other people here, for that matter) doesn't represent the whole RL community, of course. Berserk has 4 votes - so what? 4 people think it's a great game made in 2006. Nobody said "OMG BERSARK IS LIEK TEH BEST GAEM EVAR!!!111". It's not a "whole community award". And there are other games with the same amount of votes than Berserk!. If he doesn't like the game it's fine - some people don't like Angband or Nethack, and they just don't play it. And those games have a much longer life than your projects. A single game can't be for everyone, as even a "perfect" game will always have it's detractors. So I think he's overreacting a lot.

For me, of course I like the game, I find it lots of fun, and has potential to become one great roguelike, when it will have more options, weapons, skills, etc. But still, it is in beta stage, so of course it isn't as developed as it will be some day.

Right now, the downsides are that it's pretty repetitive (more kind of landscapes, perhaps including castles and caves and such would help), monsters are not very varied, skills and weapons aren't balanced and there are lots missing, some bugs, lacks more choices for combat (directly related to skills and weapons), etc. But as I said, it's a beta - so it's not complete and people should keep that in mind.

Anyway, if now it's this fun, I can't imagine what version 1.0 will be like :D