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[LuckyDee]

For the last couple of weeks, I've almost exclusively been playing Scout shotgun-builds, because of the immediate access to INT and easy radar-shooting. Eventually, of course, this build is not going to cut the mustard achievement-wise. Assuming the differences in tactics for pistol or chainfire weapons are negligible due to the same line of fire, how do I go about radar-shooting effectively with these weapons, especially in wide open areas? Do you just take for granted that you require about 5 scan-shots for what the shotgun does in 1?

[MaiZure]

I personally radar shoot a lot less with other builds. Instead, I incorporate WAIT/RUN combo while standing in a tactically convenient place like around a corner or a doorway. This allows enemies to come to me where I can choose to engage or evade.

[AlterAsc]

I can suggest playing some kickass build like MAc.You don't radarshoot, you don't cornershoot, you just see something, you kill it, you go further.
Personally i don't radarshoot at all, unless on Arena or in early caves.

[skarczew]

Go with MAc (Ammochain). Early in levels you can take Reloader and use Shotgun while investing in Ammochain traits.
When you get master trait, switch to Plasma Rifle / Gatling / whatever, with Shotty as a backup.

[LuckyDee]

You don't radarshoot, you don't cornershoot, you just see something, you kill it, you go further.

I started out playing like this (run till you see something, shoot it till it stops moving, repeat), but that only resulted in my swift death.

Go with MAc (Ammochain)

Makes sense yeah, unless you want bleed ammunition. But the question remains: how do you radar effectively? The shotgun gives you a nice spread, but the chain and pistols only fire in a straight line.

Or, from the opposite angle: what are common tactics with chain and pistol for those who don't do radarshooting?

[thelaptop]

Or, from the opposite angle: what are common tactics with chain and pistol for those who don't do radarshooting?

I like listening to the audial clues while playing with pistols.  Gift-dropping may work as well, but the main way I roll is to just make sure that if I hear something close by, I sidestep more often to make sure that I can dodge things.  Also, with pistols, "charging forwards" is generally a bad idea.  I just keep falling back until I have good cover, and then take 'em out one by one.

[Uranium]

Makes sense yeah, unless you want bleed ammunition. But the question remains: how do you radar effectively? The shotgun gives you a nice spread, but the chain and pistols only fire in a straight line.

Radar shooting with Ammochain isn't a problem: you've got so much ammo to burn (for example, an unmodded plasma rifle gives you 240 chances to hit an unseen enemy) that, realistically, you're going to hit something sooner or later. Once you've got a hitreg, you just keep firing on all cylinders.

[Ashannar]

I started out playing like this (run till you see something, shoot it till it stops moving, repeat), but that only resulted in my swift death.

The difference being that you should have high movement and firing speed + high damage. Enemies will rarely be able to shoot you.

For example, once you get 0.1 firing speed with pistols (very easy to do) you can stand in one place and fire all day long. Let the enemies come to you, and they will never get a shot off at all.

[LuckyDee]

For example, once you get 0.1 firing speed with pistols (very easy to do)...

It is? Standard pistol with SOG3 and Fin2 (1*0.8^3*0.85^2) amounts to 0.37s. Or did I understand the calculation wrong, and should it be (1-0.2*3-0.15*2) 0.1s?
Too bad Fin isn't included in any of the pistol masters though, and if you're not playing Tech I think you don't want to wait with DG for too long.

I tried a couple of Scout pistol builds last night (SOG-SOG-DG-SOG-HR-etc), but found myself overwhelmed too soon, since either I stepped into unexplored territory and got fried, or assumed a perfect position only to not be able to get my assailant killed before he was on top of me, thus getting my ass whooped up close and personal.

I must be missing some vital clue here. The Marksman Bronze (let alone Silver) seems firmly out of reach for the moment.

[AlterAsc]

0.1 firing speed with pistols is achieved when you take SoG5(as early as lvl13).Fin is unnecessary.

run till you see something, shoot it till it stops moving, repeat

That means you don't have enough firepower.You should aim for killing before enemy reacts.So while movement speed is not important(as long as it's not too low, by too low i mean more than 1.5s to move), DPS is.So in case of rapid-fire builds, maxing SoB and Fin is the way to go.

About AoMr: try general high-offence build - SoG-SoG-DG-SoG-EE-SoB-SoB-SoB-smth...Main focus is on increasing firepower, with such DPS you can kill most of the enemies before they fire.

[Creepy]

Yeah, dualgunner going straight-up DPS can get you an insane amount of firepower. They step into view, you can either blast them apart before they move or run for cover.

Though I prefer Sharpshooter builds for battlefield control, but that takes a long time to get rolling and has issues against the Cyberdemon. Dualgunner is a lot easier to rely on.

[Sirdec]

Also something important for marksmens : is getting a feel of when a ennemy will act. Shooting 2-3 times depending on fire speed then sidestepping. That allows for somewhat damageless fighting in the open, VERY important early game and still usefull later.
Just what a shottyman would do but with more control over when who does what.

[LuckyDee]

Thanks for all your input; after a few false starts I've taken up AoMr again (on MBD), and it looks like I'm getting the hang of it. Once I get this to work, I'll give this build a try on Ao100, see how well it performs there.

In the meantime, keep 'em coming. The tip about timing your actions was really good, but getting that one right will take oodles of experience, especially since fire times take reduction upon reduction in the course of the game.

[Ashannar]

0.1 firing speed with pistols is achieved when you take SoG5(as early as lvl13).Fin is unnecessary.That means you don't have enough firepower.You should aim for killing before enemy reacts.So while movement speed is not important(as long as it's not too low, by too low i mean more than 1.5s to move), DPS is.

I somewhat disagree that movement speed is not important. If you don't have MCe or Int 2, then it is straight up damage mitigation for the first time you see enemies. Because let's face it: you're not going to shift+5 an entire level unless it's a city map.

[AlterAsc]

Of course i won't wait.I don't do it all, except in HA.And i'm not saying that having high ms is useless, i'm saying that there's no point in firing first if your enemy still gets a shot at you.