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Author Topic: Comments from a New Player  (Read 7073 times)

RoneKyakone

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Comments from a New Player
« on: March 27, 2007, 12:56 »

I think a long time ago, I heard about the Doom Roguelike and never bothered to check it out, but after getting into Rogue and Angband recently, I heard about it again and this time decided to give it a download.  Long story short, it's awesome and I'm hooked.

Having played a fair amount, there are some things that have been bothing me.  So I'll bring them all up here.  I know some have been discussed, but I want to be thorough, so I'm going to list everything that comes to mind.  Some are features I'd like to see added, some are things I would have expected and I'm wondering what the deal is, and others are just comments on features already in the game.  Sorry for the post the size of a novel.

-Sound effects.  This isn't a huge issue, but as someone who's been playing Doom since it came out, I hear sounds and automatically assume one thing, when in DoomRL, it's probably wrong.  Imp death sounds for shooting a former human, demon death sounds for killing former sergeants, spider mastermind death sounds for arachnotrons being shot, etc.  It's just frustrating.  If these changes are because you feel they fit better, I'd request perhaps an option to switch between original sound effects (emulating Doom's behavior), and your modified ones(current DoomRL sounds).

-Enemy projectiles destroy walls?  Barrels and rockets I can live with, but little fireballs seem silly destroying chunks of the walls big enough for a human to step through.

-Some symbols don't make any sense.  Why c for demon?  d or D would have made more sense to me.  B for hell knights had me confused for a minute as well.  I get why you did it, but I'm not sure H wouldn't have been better.  And all the globes, I would have made color coded o's, but that's just me.

-On the topic of symbols, after clearing out a level, it takes me a second to find the stairs again on the map because it blends in with everything else.  I don't know if there's something that would stand out more.

-I think you're already planning on fixing this, but the exit after dying is annoying.

-Simple typos.  "Really" is often spelled "realy", for example.

-Is it just me or are chainguns better than plasma rifles?

-With Lev1-9 of Phobos, you use the midis from E1M1-M9, which was cool, but after that, you start skipping midis.  E2M1 and E2M3 are gone, for example.  Is there any reason why they are missing?  I'd like to see all the midis from Doom.  (Ignore this if they are used later, as I haven't gotten that far.)

-The blood and corpse effects -- awesome.  It's really satisfying to see a room almost entirely red after slaughtering all the hellspawn in it.

-I found the nods to the Doom Comic to be quite amusing.

-Are there any plans for new enemies?  I know revenants and mancs will probably be in at some point, but it would be interesting to see a few new monsters like the former commando.  Personally, I would suggest some variation on the imps and demons.  Tougher or faster versions, maybe.

If you read through all of this, thanks.  And fantastic work on the game.

EDIT: Added some stuff.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2007, 14:11 by RoneKyakone »
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BDR

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Re: Comments from a New Player
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2007, 14:16 »

The ability to return to the menu after dying has been made a part of the config file in the beta.  Also in the beta is the option to start in front of the building rather than behind it.  Also also, grammar and spelling errors are slowly but surely being noted and weeded out; you may wish to take a look at this topic.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2007, 14:19 by BDR »
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RoneKyakone

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Re: Comments from a New Player
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2007, 12:51 »

A few more things...

-Windows -- would be cool for occasional parts of the walls to have windows in them.  You'd be able to see and shoot through them, but not walk into them.

-Am I right that there are only three kinds of maps -- caves, complexes, and cities?  Is it possible to make a type of map like the caves, but that aren't so wide open?  I think it would be really interesting to have winding, narrow tunnels occasionally rather than the one big area.  And on that same note, it seems that the cave levels always have only one type of enemy.  What's the reason for that?

-I don't know if this would be too difficult for the game to generate, but is it possible to do rooms that aren't just rectangles?  I'm not asking for anything really complicated, but what about L-shaped rooms, cross-shaped rooms, or U-shaped rooms, for example?  And in the cities, are multi-room buildings possible?
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Comments from a New Player
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2007, 13:51 »

I think a long time ago, I heard about the Doom Roguelike and never bothered to check it out, but after getting into Rogue and Angband recently, I heard about it again and this time decided to give it a download.  Long story short, it's awesome and I'm hooked.
Thank you :).

-Sound effects.  This isn't a huge issue, but as someone who's been playing Doom since it came out, I hear sounds and automatically assume one thing, when in DoomRL, it's probably wrong.  Imp death sounds for shooting a former human, demon death sounds for killing former sergeants, spider mastermind death sounds for arachnotrons being shot, etc.  It's just frustrating.  If these changes are because you feel they fit better, I'd request perhaps an option to switch between original sound effects (emulating Doom's behavior), and your modified ones(current DoomRL sounds).
It is fixed in the beta and will be available next version. Till then, see this topic : http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php?topic=446.0

-Enemy projectiles destroy walls?  Barrels and rockets I can live with, but little fireballs seem silly destroying chunks of the walls big enough for a human to step through.
This is... DoomRLish. And people usually like it.

-Some symbols don't make any sense.  Why c for demon?  d or D would have made more sense to me.  B for hell knights had me confused for a minute as well.  I get why you did it, but I'm not sure H wouldn't have been better.  And all the globes, I would have made color coded o's, but that's just me.
I don't know why c is for demon :). I honestly don't remember... B for hell knight is because in the game they used the same "model " but a different skin. So did I ;).

-On the topic of symbols, after clearing out a level, it takes me a second to find the stairs again on the map because it blends in with everything else.  I don't know if there's something that would stand out more.
Good idea, I just fixed it :].

-I think you're already planning on fixing this, but the exit after dying is annoying.
Fixed in the beta.

-Simple typos.  "Really" is often spelled "realy", for example.
Fixed in the beta. At least the ones I know of. Once a new version is out, please report them in the Typos topic.

-Is it just me or are chainguns better than plasma rifles?
It might be just you ;].

-With Lev1-9 of Phobos, you use the midis from E1M1-M9, which was cool, but after that, you start skipping midis.  E2M1 and E2M3 are gone, for example.  Is there any reason why they are missing?  I'd like to see all the midis from Doom.  (Ignore this if they are used later, as I haven't gotten that far.)
Music will be revised. Also I will probably use the MP3 bindings for Classic Doom 3 as default. They kick ass!

-The blood and corpse effects -- awesome.  It's really satisfying to see a room almost entirely red after slaughtering all the hellspawn in it.
Thank you :D

-I found the nods to the Doom Comic to be quite amusing.
Thank Malek and Derek for that one :)

-Are there any plans for new enemies?  I know revenants and mancs will probably be in at some point, but it would be interesting to see a few new monsters like the former commando.  Personally, I would suggest some variation on the imps and demons.  Tougher or faster versions, maybe.
Maybe. But I'm really careful here, we don't want to do a everything-and-the-kitchen-sink kind of game :P.

If you read through all of this, thanks.  And fantastic work on the game.
The pleasure of reading is all mine :).

As for your second post -- yes, all that will be handled once I get my hands on the dungen again xD
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Comments from a New Player
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2007, 14:45 »

Are you working on DoomRL once again, Kornel?! :D
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Comments from a New Player
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2007, 15:18 »

Derek, cool to see that you're still here despite being a celebrity now :).

Yes, I do, as I told you before the plan now is:
1) release the next public release of DoomRL
2) implement graphics in Berserk! (and possibly release it if the tileset will be complete ;>)
3) implement graphics in DoomRL

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Kornel Kisielewicz

Derek

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Re: Comments from a New Player
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2007, 15:23 »

Derek, cool to see that you're still here despite being a celebrity now :).

Yes, I do, as I told you before the plan now is:
1) release the next public release of DoomRL
2) implement graphics in Berserk! (and possibly release it if the tileset will be complete ;>)
3) implement graphics in DoomRL

Haha, I don't know about being a celebrity.  But even if I were on the cover of PC Gamer, I would still have great interest in this project. ;)

1) Yay!
2) Of course the tileset will be complete.  Just send me your instructions when you're ready. :D
3) Double yay!
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RoneKyakone

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Re: Comments from a New Player
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2007, 19:47 »

-Enemy projectiles destroy walls?  Barrels and rockets I can live with, but little fireballs seem silly destroying chunks of the walls big enough for a human to step through.
This is... DoomRLish. And people usually like it.
Fair enough.

Music will be revised. Also I will probably use the MP3 bindings for Classic Doom 3 as default. They kick ass!
Meaning the midis will still be in the game, just not on by default?  I prefer midis, probably just because of nostalgia.

-Are there any plans for new enemies?...
Maybe. But I'm really careful here, we don't want to do a everything-and-the-kitchen-sink kind of game :P.
I agree completely.

As for your second post -- yes, all that will be handled once I get my hands on the dungen again xD
Awesome.

Thanks for the responses.
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Unkillable Cat

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Re: Comments from a New Player
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2007, 07:19 »

Hey there. I thought it would be better to recycle an old thread than to start a new one. I have a couple of questions and comments on the latest version of DoomRL.

# Are there any plans to include the Spider Mastermind and the Spectre (stealth demon)?

# Now that monsters can react to your presence when outside your LOS, how about nerfing them down? 9 times out of 10 I get killed by a monster I cannot see, but obviously can see me because it just fired at me. I hear that there is a 50% chance for a shot you fire outside your LOS will miss, regardless of everything else. Is this implemented for the monsters as well? If not, it should.

# Restricting weapon mods only to advanced weapons is, IMO, not practical. You can't count 100% on getting an advanced weapon of any kind (even though they're found in some of the named levels) except in one of the Challenges, so what use are they? A suggestion would be to allow a single mod on standard weapons, and more on the advanced types.

# Dual-wielding combat knives. I'd love to see this implemented in some way.

# Now that DoomRL includes Arachnotrons, hasn't the Former Human Commando become redundant? I like him, but he's just an Arachnotron with fewer legs. Maybe he should be changed somehow?
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Picklish

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Re: Comments from a New Player
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2007, 09:45 »

Responses from a slightly less new player:

# Now that monsters can react to your presence when outside your LOS, how about nerfing them down? 9 times out of 10 I get killed by a monster I cannot see, but obviously can see me because it just fired at me. I hear that there is a 50% chance for a shot you fire outside your LOS will miss, regardless of everything else. Is this implemented for the monsters as well? If not, it should.

Please somebody else correct me if I'm wrong here, but I was under the impression that the only monster with a larger LOS than the player's default is the Cyberdemon.  I think the only time you can get hit by a monster that you never see is if you take a step, the monster attacks, and you get knocked back.

However, there is a known bug on the arena level where there's an extra, invisible copy of yourself in the center of the map and if a monster can see that, then it will shoot at the real you, even the monster is well out of your LOS.  I know I've been killed by that three or four times now and run into it as well, nearly killing myself with the chainsaw.

# Restricting weapon mods only to advanced weapons is, IMO, not practical.

Personally speaking, I wouldn't mind seeing the ability to at least put one mod on "basic" weapons with maybe one extra per level of Whizkid.

# Now that DoomRL includes Arachnotrons, hasn't the Former Human Commando become redundant? I like him, but he's just an Arachnotron with fewer legs.

...and fewer hit points, the ability to open doors, and an even worse melee attack.  Also, you get a plasma rifle back when you kill one.  Sure, their attack is similar and in both cases it's ideal to be in melee range (or out of LOS), but in my opinion, they're different enough.
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Firstblood

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Re: Comments from a New Player
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2007, 21:47 »

One mod on basic weapons and I guess one on special(non-advanced) weapons sounds a great idea to me, fun-wise, as you get to use the mods you find in every game on any weapons you want, and if you find a better mod, you can ditch your currently modded weapon for a new one. I think its a good enough idea that if it didn't create too much balance issues they could be sorted out so thats its possible to do.

WK tho is good enough as it is. I think applying WK to anything other than advanced weapons would make it very unbalanced.
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Blade

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Re: Comments from a New Player
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2007, 02:14 »

I like the idea about applying one mod to basic weapon too. 0987 version is quite hard and we need to lower difficulty somehow, so this will really help.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2007, 05:28 by Blade »
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TFoN

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Re: Comments from a New Player
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2007, 05:20 »

I agree, one mod per normal weapon sounds good.

WK tho is good enough as it is. I think applying WK to anything other than advanced weapons would make it very unbalanced.
The moment that bug allowing more than 3 mods per type (and for free) is fixed, WK'll be effectively nerfed. Letting it allow a single additional mod per normal weapon'll make it, at most, as useful as it is now.

EDIT:
Quote
Some symbols don't make any sense.  Why c for demon?  d or D would have made more sense to me.
Too much similarity to former captains (red 'h'~red 'd') or barons of hell (red 'D'~red 'B') for it to be worth changing, IMO. The way it is now, you can notice differences on the spot.

Quote
And all the globes, I would have made color coded o's, but that's just me.
I think that just the fact that letters are "historically" reserved for monsters stands in the way. On the same note, levers currently look to me like arch-demons :P
« Last Edit: May 14, 2007, 06:30 by TFoN »
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Comments from a New Player
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2007, 12:13 »

Personally speaking, I wouldn't mind seeing the ability to at least put one mod on "basic" weapons with maybe one extra per level of Whizkid.
Granted.
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