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[RepoRipper]

ok 1, look expand..... i know the new version doest allow items on stairs, but how bout if u wanna know what if an item near acid and lava is actually ON lava, or if ur standing on somethingcuz the guy u just killed at point blank dropped 9+ item (so one landed under you) and u dont wanna move unless its nothing..... all this does is look at everything there, u could easily access with "L" key for "toggle expanded look mode". trust me, i think if u were "the Doom soldier" (thats what ur char is refered to by all Doom players), u would NOTICE if the preciuos Adv. Plasma Rifle was sitting on LAVA.....

2, map memory... 2 or 3 related things.

1. .... i look and see a door on the other side of the map, i move, now the door (no chance in hell i could SEE it through 15 walls) is open. hmmmm.... a little cheap maybye. wait............. forget i said anything!!!

2. ok u pull the lever, all the barrels blow up.... HOW DO I KNOW THAT WALL AT EDGE OF VEIW WAS BLOWN UP BY A BARREL ON THE OTHER SIDE??? AM I CLAIRVOYANT????

3. on that same note, when i hear a soul scream (death beyond vision), why is it, if it occurs in an area ive explored, the CORPSE APPEARS on my map.... am i PSYCHIC???

4. why cant i remember where that advanced plasma rifle was? was it on the other side of THIS lava field, or THIS one? i dont have the health to cross both ways more than once..... if i chose wrong, ill have to skip it, ARGH!......

all the map stuff has simple solution. map by memory. ie what u saw there last is what is shown. shown only includes floor tiles, bfgs and plasma rifles (give off energy that can be detected, but if u dont know its there it looks like background radiation), and door locations. doors, btw, are always remembered as closed, no matter what. u can still hear them being opened. the only way ur memory can be changed is if u pull a flood switch, in which case itll replace all apllicable tiles with water. also, computer map powerup as usual gives u a flash frame of the map, but door closed bit applys. also instead of just bfgs and plasmas u could remember all weapons, but not ammo. map powerup is exception. also this method facilitates easy use of Look-ing at known objects outside field of vision. like stairs, liquid floors (water, acid, lava), etc.

[Potman]

Although your post is extremely complicated, and does it's best to make me not to understand, I get the point of the map memory system. And I've been wondering it myself.  Request seconded.

Look expand, then again... What? From that, I don't understand anything. I don't get what your point is, I don't get what you're suggesting. Not in the slightest.

[RepoRipper]

thanks for the second!

look expand is used in EVERY "Angband" and related Roguelike game. what it does is allow u to, while in look mode, press a key to examine everything UNDER the shown tile. for example T.O.M.E. can often end up with about 10 different things stacked on top of each other, but only one tile can be shown, so when u "looked" at an item, another key would drop the "look" point to the tile underneath, allowing u to see everything on a single tile, without moving. this would be extremely important with the map memory... and even more important, it allows u to see the floor under an item.... ie see if the item is sitting on top of acid or lava (ARGH)...

btw sorry for being so longwinded, i have aspergers syndrome, and it affects things, so i have the problem of saying too much in an effort to not miss details. it also helps me to actually rite it, cuz i have trouble putting things into words....

[Potman]

But there can be just a single item on each tile anyway, so the usefulness of that is pretty much zero.

And I have Aspergers too. Don't use it as an excuse.

[RepoRipper]

im not using it as an excuse, its simply part of the problem... which is quite simply, i am long-winded.

anyway, the reason for it is, if u see an item, 1. is it on top of a lever? there is NO WAY to know without picking it up which isnt possible in a firefight, cuz the lever may be an instakill..... 2. WHY CANT I SEE THAT THAT ITEM IS SITTING ON LAVA???? AM I BLIND???? ARGH!!!! LAVA!!!! (that has happened to me truly millions of times.....)

[jake250]

Never happened to me... I see where things are before a weapons or ammo drop at this point.

[Rabiat]

all this does is look at everything there, u could easily access with "L" key for "toggle expanded look mode".

I don't understand what exactly you're suggesting, but it would be nice of the standard 'look' command would tell if an item is on acid/lava. Whether or not items could sit on lava without being destroyed is a different question. ;)

all the map stuff has simple solution. map by memory. ie what u saw there last is what is shown. shown only includes floor tiles, bfgs and plasma rifles (...) and door locations. doors, btw, are always remembered as closed, no matter what. (...) the only way ur memory can be changed is if u pull a flood switch, in which case itll replace all apllicable tiles with water. also, computer map powerup as usual gives u a flash frame of the map, but door closed bit applys. also instead of just bfgs and plasmas u could remember all weapons, but not ammo. map powerup is exception.

I agree with the idea that an unseen part of the map shouldn't be updated if the actual map changes, but why the exceptions for doors, items, and flooding?

This is a technical issue. By the current state of things, the map display (including the unseen part) is drawn from the actual map. This means, if the actual map changes, so does the unseen part of the map. To change this, the program would have to remember the actual map as well as the player's map memory; the visible part of the map memory would be updated every time the player's field of view is updated, the unseen part would not. Although maps in DoomRL aren't very large, this would involve making two 2D arrays with level data (in stead of one) and some extra code. I don't think there's a reason for exceptions such as doors always being closed; the game could display a door as the player character last saw it. The same goes for floods; how would a player know which tiles of a level were flooded if he didn't actually see it?

Also, whether or not items should be displayed on the unseen part of the map is a separate question. If an item's location is redrawn according to player memory, it is easily possible for an item to pop up twice on the map. If the player sees an item, then the item's location changes, and the player sees it somewhere else, the item would be drawn at the memorised location as well as the new location. IIRC this used to happen in earlier versions of Crawl if you turned on some 'display items out of view' option. For this to work correctly, not only would the program have to remember the map memory separately from the actual state of the map, but every item would have to have a 'rememberd location' to prevent it from being displayed several times.

[RepoRipper]

well im such an idjit, i had only just started playing the newest version, hadnt seen all of how it works... i still dont get why Computer Map doesnt reveal flooring...... but the lava/acid part is a must.

[DisaffectedBeta]

I think the map used to reveal flooring, but that was changed so you could see where you'd been before as opposed to where you hadn't.  When you visited a place in the new version, you saw the floors and you could tell the difference when you compared areas.  Helps when you're trying to figure out where the little bloodbags are hiding, and it's one of my favorite tweaks.

What I took from your suggestion was just to have the weapons map on to the screen and stay there, but like fog of war, you wouldn't be able to see if anyone had taken them until you went back and checked.  I think it's an OK idea, but I don't mind a little hunting for things I've already seen.