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[Tormuse]

This was a game where I seemed sure to win right up to the second that I died very abruptly and unexpectedly.  :(  At 48% health with level 3 TaN, I was reasonably confident that I could survive an unexpected barrage, especially since I was lucky enough to find Cybernetic armour accompanied by the components for nanofibre armour in the armoury!  It slowed me down to 1.55 seconds per move, but basically turned me into a walking fortress.

I never saw the mancubus that killed me, nor the napalm barrel that apparently went off, plunging me into lava.  I literally went from having no sign of danger one move to dead the next.

So, now I have a dilemma, because I made a back-up of the saved game just after I got the nanofibre cybernetic armour.  (for posterity)  Normally, I don't like save-scumming, but I feel, at least partially, justified in restoring that game, since it would have been my first ever runner gold badge and I feel like there was more unreasonable unfairness than usual in my death this time.

What do you guys think?  How much is it frowned upon in this community to restore games like this?

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (v.0.9.9.2) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Tormuse, level 8 Hell Baron 1st Lieutenant, committed a stupid suicide
 on level 8 of the Phobos base.
 He survived 90698 turns and scored 70976 points.
 He played for 2 hours, 26 minutes and 47 seconds.
 He was a man of Ultra-Violence!

 He killed 315 out of 343 hellspawn. (91%)
 He held his right to remain violent.
 He was an Angel of Haste!


 He saved himself once.

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 9
  Levels visited   : 3
  Levels completed : 3

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Hell Armorer Badge
  Runner Bronze Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ..........===..............|..===..................==.==.0#
  ..........===......}......|}}===.=...............=====.==.#
  ...######====##..#..#0.###.##=====####}..###...#========..#
  .........====....#..#..#..#..=====..}|......#..#.======...#
  >.........h==0...#..#..#..#..|..=..|........#..#;=====....#
  ..#..#...###..###......#..#.|#}.#..####..#..#...#===##=...#
  .|#..#......s.V...0.....Vh...#.....#...%}#.0......====..#.#
  ..#..#.......hV..h.VhhV.h...h#.....#}.|}.#.........====.#.#
  ##.....V.h....M###..###....######.||.}#.....#######.....#.#
  ........#.h#..#0.h..hOhhM.=..#.....}|}#.....#...}....#....#
  ........#..#..#......hh....=.#....}|||#....|#........#..."#
  ..###...#..#..#}.......###===...####|||###}..###..#..####.#
  .........0..........#.....====..#.h#}}#}.#........#.......#
  .........0..........#.....====X.}|.#..#..#>.......#.......#
  ..###...#..###.###..#..##======##..#..#..#..###.###..######
  ...;....#.................====.....................|..."..#
  ........#..................===............................#
  ###########################====############################
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 0/50   Experience 26363/8
  ToHit Ranged +4  ToHit Melee +6  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +3

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

    Finesse          (Level 1)
    Tough as nails   (Level 3)
    Eagle Eye        (Level 2)
    Brute            (Level 1)
    Juggler          (Level 1)

  TaN->TaN->EE->TaN->EE->Fin->Jug->Bru->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   nanofiber Cybernetic Armor [6]
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   high power chaingun (1d9)x4 [20/20]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   modified steel boots [1/1] (89%) (A)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   Jackhammer (8d3)x3 [9/9]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] shotgun (8d3) [1/1]
    [b] modified rocket launcher (6d6) [1/1] (B1)
    [c] high power plasma rifle (1d9)x6 [26/26]
    [d] BFG 9000 (10d8) [100/100]
    [e] chainsaw (4d6)
    [f] 10mm ammo (x36)
    [g] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [h] shotgun shell (x50)
    [i] rocket (x10)
    [j] power cell (x50)
    [k] power cell (x50)
    [l] power cell (x50)
    [m] small med-pack
    [n] small med-pack
    [o] small med-pack
    [p] small med-pack
    [q] small med-pack
    [r] small med-pack
    [s] large med-pack
    [t] phase device
    [u] homing phase device

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    44 former humans
    38 former sergeants
    29 former captains
    53 imps
    41 demons
    41 lost souls
    16 cacodemons
    15 barons of hell
    9 hell knights
    3 arachnotrons
    8 former commandos
    2 pain elementals
    2 arch-viles
    2 mancubi
    11 revenants
    1 shambler

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  On level 3 he stormed the Chained Court.
  On level 4 he assembled a high power weapon!
  On level 5 he entered Hell's Armory.
  On level 5 he assembled a tactical armor!
  On level 5 he found the Jackhammer!
  On level 5 he found the Cybernetic Armor!
  On level 5 he assembled a nanofiber armor!
  On level 5 he assembled a high power weapon!
  He destroyed the evil withing and reaped the rewards!
  On level 6 he ventured into the Halls of Carnage.
  On level 8 he finally committed a stupid suicide.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 There is a plasma rifle (1d7)x6 [22/40] lying here.
 There is a plasma rifle (1d7)x6 [22/40] lying here.
 There is shotgun shell (x29) lying here.
 You don't have enough room in your backpack. There is shotgun shell (x29)
 lying here.
 You prepare the high power chaingun instantly!
 There is a technical mod pack lying here.
 You see : a power mod pack | floor
 There is a power mod pack lying here.
 There is a power mod pack lying here.
 There is a pistol (2d4) [6/6] lying here.
 There is 10mm ammo (x24) lying here.
 There is 10mm ammo (x100) lying here.
 Boom! The barrel explodes! Boom! Boom! You hear the scream of a freed soul!
 You hear the scream of a freed soul! You are hit! You are hit!
 Argh!!! Lava! You die!... Press <Enter>...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 Before him 319 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 287 of those were killed.
 1 of those was killed by something unknown.
 18 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 6 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 Some rumours though, say that the Cyberdemon was killed already!
 Is he immortal? 7 souls claim to have killed him...
 1 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 2 killed the bastard and survived.
 4 showed that it can outsmart hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------


[darksergio]

damn that was a unlucky dead but whit nanofiber cibernetic armor you are like a walking tank I do the same as you when I find it and about the save that is up to you I sometimes save scum but I never post these mortems

[Ander Hammer]

Keep it if you want, but nanofibre cybernetic armor isn't that much of a long shot if you want to try reproducing it.

Save scumming is kind of crooked. It's why it's called 'scumming'.

If you want my opinion, delete the save and walk away with a lesson. See all those small medpacks? You could have been tanking around with 75%-100% health and avoided this.

[Rabiat]

That's a very unfortunate death. But maybe you shouldn't be wearing a piece of armor with a 55% snail factor in the first place, if there are mancubi and arch-viles around.

Personally I don't save scum. It's the unfortunate deaths that make the narrow escapes and the hard-fought victories worthwhile. The RNG giveth, the RNG taketh away.

Besides, save scumming messes up the statistics in your player.wad.

[Nameless]

Suck it up, learn from your mistakes, and try again from the beginning. (If you had already had TaN, Cybernetic armor isn't worth the movement penalty.) Save scumming will only make you a sloppier player in the long run and lace any victory with the bitterness of lies.

[thelaptop]

Save scumming has one and only one use here -- when testing new beta releases.

Otherwise, try not to do it...

[Ander Hammer]

Heck, you can get similar protection for less move penalty, albeit less sturdy, with just red armor and power mods, and if you find a nano mod, too, it might as well be as good as the armor you built.

[Tormuse]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured too.  I just hate to see such potential go to waste like this.  :|

See all those small medpacks? You could have been tanking around with 75%-100% health and avoided this.

I usually guard my med-packs jealously and don't use them unless I really need to, like if my health dips below 40%, or sometimes 20% if I'm feeling lucky.  That strategy has gotten me killed on more than a few occasions, but there have also been many times that I use one just before finding a berserk or supercharge around the next corner and then I just feel like I wasted it.  It's a bit of a gamble either way, but I'll concede the point that I'm probably too stingy with the med-packs.

[Ander Hammer]

Better to waste one or two than to die and waste them all.

If you find a zerk/invul/whatever, you can always leave it for later.

[RogerN]

Walking around on Phobos Hell level 8 with less than 80% health is a huge mistake IMO.  Doing it with a 55% movement speed penalty and on Ultra-Violence is just begging for instant death.  Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think you deserved to die.  Even at 100% health you're never completely safe at that depth and difficulty level.

I think the biggest lesson here is that movement penalties are terminally dangerous - particularly because you often don't notice there's a problem until a pack of Revenants and Mancubi all get double moves on you.  Think about it - every step for you was the time-penalty equivalent of reloading a rocket launcher!

The other lesson is that there's no reason to hoard small medkits at that depth.  They're practically useless in heavy combat because the monsters you're facing deal damage too quickly.  Their only practical use is when you're not immediately threatened but need some health.  (I suppose you could argue keeping them around for stamina boosts, but with 1.55 base movement speed you're not going to be able to run away from anything).

[Tormuse]

Keep it if you want, but nanofibre cybernetic armor isn't that much of a long shot if you want to try reproducing it.

Turns out you were right!  Check this out:  (I swear this is a different game!)  :D

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (v.0.9.9.2) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Tormuse, level 10 Hell Baron 1st Lieutenant, defeated the Cyberdemon
 on level 12 of the Phobos base.
 He survived 98236 turns and scored 140254 points.
 He played for 2 hours, 25 minutes and 14 seconds.
 He was a man of Ultra-Violence!

 He killed 447 out of 447 hellspawn. (100%)
 This ass-kicking marine killed all of them!
 He was an Angel of Haste!


 He saved himself once.

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 10
  Levels visited   : 3
  Levels completed : 3

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  Medal of Prejudice
  UAC Star (bronze cluster)
  Hell Armorer Badge
  Runner Silver Badge
  Runner Gold Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  #..........................................................
  #..........................................................
  #..............###....###......###.........................
  #..............###X|..###......###.........................
  #..............###||..###......###.........###.............
  #..........................................###.............
  #..........................................###.............
  #..............###..........###............................
  #..............###..........#>#..........................##
  #..............###..........###..........................##
  #...............................................###......##
  #...............................................###........
  #....................................###........###........
  #....................................###...................
  #......###.............###...........###...................
  #......###.............###.................................
  #......###.............###.................................
  #..........................................................
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 39/60   Experience 41664/10
  ToHit Ranged +4  ToHit Melee +4  ToDmg Ranged +1  ToDmg Melee +1

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

    Ironman          (Level 1)
    Finesse          (Level 2)
    Tough as nails   (Level 2)
    Son of a bitch   (Level 1)
    Eagle Eye        (Level 2)
    Juggler          (Level 1)
    Whizkid          (Level 1)

  TaN->TaN->EE->Fin->Jug->EE->Fin->WK->Iro->SoB->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   nanofiber Cybernetic Armor [6]
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   chainsaw (4d6)
    [c] [ Boots      ]   tactical boots [1/1] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   modified combat shotgun (7d3) [5/5] (T1)

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] pistol (2d4) [6/6]
    [b] tactical rocket launcher (5d5) [1/5]
    [c] chaingun (1d6)x4 [40/40]
    [d] plasma rifle (1d7)x6 [2/40]
    [e] BFG 9000 (10d8) [0/100]
    [f] 10mm ammo (x66)
    [g] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [h] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [i] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [j] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [k] 10mm ammo (x100)
    [l] shotgun shell (x50)
    [m] shotgun shell (x9)
    [n] large med-pack
    [o] large med-pack
    [p] envirosuit pack
    [q] technical mod pack
    [r] firestorm weapon pack

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    61 former humans
    59 former sergeants
    43 former captains
    57 imps
    38 demons
    65 lost souls
    21 cacodemons
    30 barons of hell
    1 Cyberdemon
    12 hell knights
    13 arachnotrons
    11 former commandos
    4 pain elementals
    13 arch-viles
    7 mancubi
    11 revenants
    1 shambler

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  On level 3 he stormed the Chained Court.
  On level 5 he entered Hell's Armory.
  On level 5 he assembled a tactical boots!
  He destroyed the evil withing and reaped the rewards!
  On level 6 he found the Cybernetic Armor!
  On level 6 he ventured into the Halls of Carnage.
  On level 7 he assembled a nanofiber armor!
  On level 7 he assembled a tactical rocket launcher!
  Then at last he found Phobos Arena!
  On level 12 he finally defeated the Cyberdemon.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The
 missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the Cyberdemon.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : a Cyberdemon (mortally wounded) [m]ore | blood
 The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The
 missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The
 You see : a Cyberdemon (almost dead) [m]ore | blood
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : a Cyberdemon (almost dead) [m]ore | blood
 The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The
 missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The
 missile hits the Cyberdemon. The missile hits the Cyberdemon. The
 Cyberdemon hits you.
 You prepare the chainsaw instantly!
 You hit the Cyberdemon. The Cyberdemon dies. You feel relatively safe
 now. Congratulations! You defeated the Cyberdemon! Press <Enter>...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 Before him 330 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 294 of those were killed.
 1 of those was killed by something unknown.
 20 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 8 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 Some rumours though, say that the Cyberdemon was killed already!
 Is he immortal? 7 souls claim to have killed him...
 1 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 2 killed the bastard and survived.
 4 showed that it can outsmart hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------

The addition of tactical boots helped offset the snail effect of the armour and I got my runner gold after all!  :D

Walking around on Phobos Hell level 8 with less than 80% health is a huge mistake IMO.  Doing it with a 55% movement speed penalty and on Ultra-Violence is just begging for instant death.  Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think you deserved to die.  Even at 100% health you're never completely safe at that depth and difficulty level.

Ha ha!  Forgive me for finding this funny, but I think this is the first time I've ever been told, in any context, that I deserve to die.  :)  Point taken.  I agree that I was careless and that my initial reaction of apparent "unfairness" was unfounded.

[Kornel Kisielewicz]

I cry when Angels deserve to die! xD

[Tormuse]

Tormuse, level 8 Hell Baron 1st Lieutenant, committed a stupid suicide
 on level 8 of the Phobos base...


I don't think you trust in my self-righteous suicide.  ;)

(EDIT:  Erm...  I don't know if anyone got that, but it was an SOAD reference in response to Kornel's post)

[rchandra]

The lyric sounded like a song I knew from Rock Band, but I didn't have the right one in mind.  I was thinking Panic Attack by Dream Theater (I guess "self-righteous suicide" and "helpless hysteria" are close enough)