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Author Topic: New Traits  (Read 65387 times)

Valkeera

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New Traits
« on: December 11, 2006, 10:24 »

Suggestions for two new traits.

Dodger:
advanced, req. 2 Hellrunner
This trait will allow you to dodge missile and melee attacks more effectively - by 10% per trait level.

Stalker:
advanced?
Allows you to sneak past monsters in their LOS undetected in coward or cautious tac setting. This should probably be an advanced trait too (2 Hellrunner?), as it is very powerful.
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DaEezT

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Re: New Traits
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2006, 10:34 »

Dodger:
advanced, req. 2 Hellrunner
This trait will allow you to dodge missile and melee attacks more effectively - by 10% per trait level.
Some advanced trait on top of Hellrunner would be nice but why make it give only half the bonus Hellrunner does?

Stalker:
advanced?
Allows you to sneak past monsters in their LOS undetected in coward or cautious tac setting. This should probably be an advanced trait too (2 Hellrunner?), as it is very powerful.
Nah, this is neither Splinter Cell nor Metal Gear.
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Adral

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Re: New Traits
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2006, 10:35 »

I don't like that Stalker thing... Sounds like outright cheating:P It's for ninjas and snipers, and ninjas and snipers are heretic.

The Dodger, on the other hand, might be cool.

However, I think the game needs some kind of attacking trait that is really useful, though. In my opinion there are lots of defensive traits already. Even Eagle Eye is finally used to go into "coward" for all the game, or for sniping targets with Intuition[3]. Making SoaB useful, revamping Finesse and so on is what I think the game needs right now.

Just my 2 cents, though ;).
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Neth

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Re: New Traits
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2006, 11:24 »

Hell walker (spc trait need lvl 2 Hell Runner) (max 2)
deceraises damage done to you from hazzardous materials like lava or acid

Swimmer (spc trait need lvl 2 of SMTHing) (max 1)
lets you swim in the water, that makes you invisible, but when you shoot, you became visible and your weaps are more "off-targeted"

Basher (spc trait need lvl 2 of SoaB) (max 3)
each lvl of this trait will make enemy bashed for 30 turns with 30% of sucsess

Kicker (spc trait need lvl 2 of Finesse) (max 3)
each lvl will incraise knockback of your weap by 1

Charm (spc trait need lvl 3 of intuition) (max 1)
lets you control target of enemy if you hit this enemy (enemy from which "face" you'll do attack)

Ammo gainer (trait) (max 3)
incraise amount of ammo that you get by 20% each level of this trait

Ammo sharper (spc trait need lvl 2 of Ammo gainer) (max 1)
let you convert one type of ammo to another with a spc koffs, like:
20 bullets - 1 rocket
5 bullets - 1 plasma
10 bullets - 1 shell
5 plasma - 1 rocket
3 plasma - 1 shell
3 shell - 1 rocket

hmmm... think this would be nice... vote=)
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RickVoid

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Re: New Traits
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2006, 11:35 »

Hell walker (spc trait need lvl 2 Hell Runner) (max 2)
deceraises damage done to you from hazzardous materials like lava or acid

Swimmer (spc trait need lvl 2 of SMTHing) (max 1)
lets you swim in the water, that makes you invisible, but when you shoot, you became visible and your weaps are more "off-targeted"

Basher (spc trait need lvl 2 of SoaB) (max 3)
each lvl of this trait will make enemy bashed for 30 turns with 30% of sucsess

Kicker (spc trait need lvl 2 of Finesse) (max 3)
each lvl will incraise knockback of your weap by 1

Charm (spc trait need lvl 3 of intuition) (max 1)
lets you control target of enemy if you hit this enemy (enemy from which "face" you'll do attack)

Ammo gainer (trait) (max 3)
incraise amount of ammo that you get by 20% each level of this trait

Ammo sharper (spc trait need lvl 2 of Ammo gainer) (max 1)
let you convert one type of ammo to another with a spc koffs, like:
20 bullets - 1 rocket
5 bullets - 1 plasma
10 bullets - 1 shell
5 plasma - 1 rocket
3 plasma - 1 shell
3 shell - 1 rocket

hmmm... think this would be nice... vote=)

Hell walker I like. I have a problem with the others though.

Swimer is worthless. On the lower levels you don't see water anyway.
Theres something I don't like about basher... oh wait, it's the fact that it makes melee even easier. (90% chance at level 3 for 90 turns? Come on! Melee is doable, AoM is impossible right now.)
Kicker might be okay. I like the idea that my PISTOL can get +3 knockback. Take that V!
Charm. No. No no no no no. No.
Ammo gainer. My backpack is typically full of ammo for weapons I won't get until much later. I don't need any more.
Ammo sharper. Not only is it physically impossible to turn 20 handgun rounds into a rocket anyway, it's also ridiculously unbalancing.
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Valkeera

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Re: New Traits
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2006, 11:36 »

I should've probably specified that Stalker only increases your CHANCE being undetected (by 10% per trait level?), and of course would apply only to monsters that are not aware of your presence. Might save your life when you push the wrong lever ;-)

And I like the Basher trait, too - though I'd decrease the duration to 10 turns only, and chance to 10%/tr.level.
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Neth

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Re: New Traits
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2006, 11:43 »

Quote
Swimer is worthless. On the lower levels you don't see water anyway.
OK so maybe in "hazzardous materials" too? =P
Quote
Theres something I don't like about basher... oh wait, it's the fact that it makes melee even easier. (90% chance at level 3 for 90 turns? Come on! Melee is doable, AoM is impossible right now.)
In basher I meant not only H2H bashing but a "bullet bashing" too =P
Quote
Kicker might be okay. I like the idea that my PISTOL can get +3 knockback. Take that V!
yep, thats good trait=)
Quote
Charm. No. No no no no no. No.
agreed in this, but it'll fun when you control cybie=)(or JC) so just good to be only as a spoiler=)
Quote
Ammo gainer. My backpack is typically full of ammo for weapons I won't get until much later. I don't need any more.
Ammo sharper. Not only is it physically impossible to turn 20 handgun rounds into a rocket anyway, it's also ridiculously unbalancing.
maybe you have an "Hell smith" in your backpack=)
unbalancing... maybe=) so it will be good to make a 50-200%% loss of ammo that you convert when converting=P
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Valkeera

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Re: New Traits
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2006, 11:44 »

Quote
Theres something I don't like about basher... oh wait, it's the fact that it makes melee even easier. (90% chance at level 3 for 90 turns? Come on! Melee is doable, AoM is impossible right now.)

I think that from the description Basher is not for melee only (that's why there's 2 SoaB), it might apply to all other weapons too (or perhaps limited up to chaingun? BFG has a really bashing effect on its own already ;-)).
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Blade

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Re: New Traits
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2006, 11:47 »

I'm not against Kicker, Basher(if it will be as Valkeera said), and Hell walker(it is useless to me, but if anybody need it, i won't mind). About other perks: what do we want, to turn DooMRL into total RPG with crafting higher ammo types from lesser ammo types, with creating of armor from corpses?)). And Charm(he-he) is taming then: hit demon with rocket and he will love you for this))). No-no-no-no-no.
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Neth

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Re: New Traits
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2006, 11:58 »

OK so Ammo sharper is not good thing, but ammo gainer may be left=)

Charm... hmmm... ok, no charm, maybe this

Nerve Shot (spc trait 2 SoaB) (max 3)
Each your shoot make enemy go nuts =P. each level makes enemy shoot at random direction for 20 moves
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Blade

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Re: New Traits
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2006, 12:06 »

Nerve Shot (spc trait 2 SoaB) (max 3)
Each your shoot make enemy go nuts =P. each level makes enemy shoot at random direction for 20 moves

Isn't it similar to bashing then? Only one thing is changing - when bashed he is standing still, and when he's hit in nerve, he is standing still and firing.
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Adral

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Re: New Traits
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2006, 12:09 »

Quote
In basher I meant not only H2H bashing but a "bullet bashing" too =P

More unbalancing already? 90 turns without doing anything at 90% chance? Even 1 turn dizzied might be overkill... you just keep hitting the demon with a chaingun (which has 5 hits per turn, not mentioning you MUST have at least Finesse 2, so more chance of putting him out of combat) and he dies eventually without even touching you.

I don't quite get what's so useful about Kicker, but it might be just me.

Charmer is just a NO. We don't need Bards who tame demons in this game. :P

Ammo gainer, as RickVoid said, is useless. You can already hoard lots of ammo without it.

Ammo sharper is also contrary to the spirit. The thing with DoomRL is that you have to choose what you bring along because of the limited inventory. If we add this kind of things, we lose that strategy factor, which in my opinion is a bad thing to do.

On Stalker, I think it's just contrary to the spirit of the game, no matter the chance. We already have the almighty Intuition to snipe from the farthest places without being noticed. Also, Intuition already helps you NOT to push the wrong lever :P

Nerve Shot is just overpowered beyond any comprehension. Shoot a monster and watch the show. It is also agaisnt the spirit of DoomRL being a shooter-RL, implementing things like crazyness, enchantments and so on.

As I said, SoaB is pretty much useless, as well as some other traits. I think the priority should be making every trait useful and then, implement new traits. The more valid strategies we have in our hands, the more fun we'll have with the game.

For example, SoaB might add +1 damage per dice, not per attack. So, the shotgun would have 6d3+6(the number of dice rolled), the BFG 8d8+8 and so on. Right now, spending a trait for a 8d8+1 for the BFG feels a bit dumb.
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DaEezT

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Re: New Traits
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2006, 12:11 »

Quote
In basher I meant not only H2H bashing but a "bullet bashing" too =P

More unbalancing already? 90 turns without doing anything at 90% chance? Even 1 turn dizzied might be overkill... you just keep hitting the demon with a chaingun (which has 5 hits per turn, not mentioning you MUST have at least Finesse 2, so more chance of putting him out of combat) and he dies eventually without even touching you.

I don't quite get what's so useful about Kicker, but it might be just me.

Charmer is just a NO. We don't need Bards who tame demons in this game. :P

Ammo gainer, as RickVoid said, is useless. You can already hoard lots of ammo without it.

Ammo sharper is also contrary to the spirit. The thing with DoomRL is that you have to choose what you bring along because of the limited inventory. If we add this kind of things, we lose that strategy factor, which in my opinion is a bad thing to do.

On Stalker, I think it's just contrary to the spirit of the game, no matter the chance. We already have the almighty Intuition to snipe from the farthest places without being noticed. Also, Intuition already helps you NOT to push the wrong lever :P

Nerve Shot is just overpowered beyond any comprehension. Shoot a monster and watch the show. It is also agaisnt the spirit of DoomRL being a shooter-RL, implementing things like crazyness, enchantments and so on.

As I said, SoaB is pretty much useless, as well as some other traits. I think the priority should be making every trait useful and then, implement new traits. The more valid strategies we have in our hands, the more fun we'll have with the game.

For example, SoaB might add +1 damage per dice, not per attack. So, the shotgun would have 6d3+6(the number of dice rolled), the BFG 8d8+8 and so on. Right now, spending a trait for a 8d8+1 for the BFG feels a bit dumb.

I'd like to second this post with one addition:
I think every base skill should also lead to an advanced skill that make focusing on it worthwhile and that is not the case for all skills right now.
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Fingerzam

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Re: New Traits
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2006, 15:00 »

I'd like to note that there's already Reloader and Shottyman for shotguns, so I don't see increasing shotguns' damage as a priority, but I do agree that Finesse and SoaB do need advanced traits to make 'em better, like something allowing you to shoot additional bullets with chaingun and plasma rifle for SoaB (this was suggested by someone on #DoomRL some time ago).

Finesse would also need some boosting to itself.
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DaEezT

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Re: New Traits
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2006, 15:21 »

like something allowing you to shoot additional bullets with chaingun and plasma rifle for SoaB (this was suggested by someone on #DoomRL some time ago).
yay, someone remembers my GatlingGuy idea ;D
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