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[Ashannar]

This is something that's been bugging me for a while. In UV, I am constantly spawning into levels that I have no hope of surviving.

See this picture for just such an example.

I spawned in the middle of the room on the left, where I was greeted by a hell knight and about four imps. So I did the sensible thing and activated running and made my way to the tactically superior doorway on the right. But look at what greeted me on the other side. This is only level three. All I have is a pistol, a shotgun, a chaingun, a green armor, and a couple of small med-packs.

I can attest that this is not an isolated situation. Every time I enter a new level, I am simply at the mercy of the RNG. When I hear 2DeviationsOut say things like "RNG doesn't matter in this game, there's always a solution" I must admit I do not believe him. Does everyone else just kind of die like this until you get that one lucky run that gives you good gear and good starting level positions?

[ih8regin]

Tactically superior? I wonder. It looks like that there's a door in the left wall, it might be that that door was superior tactically. While yes, UV does give earlier nigh-unresolvable situations a lot.

[Ashannar]

There was no door on the left. It was the edge of the map.

[ih8regin]

hmm, if so, you might have to take on the pack, given you have a shotgun, you could two-blast all the imps and get that third level off them, so you could play dodge with hell knight. Anyway, all possibilities have to be evaluated. "Nowhere to run" exists tho, and is indeed common early in UV.

[Pricklyman]

UV plays havoc with good old RNG, although most situations are at least survivable. As ih8 said, the imps really weren't that much of an issue, a shotgun deals with them quite soundly, and dodging around Hell Knights is annoying, but possible.

As an in-frequent player of UV I'm not an expert on the matter, however the games I have played have been fraught with situations such as this...

[AlterAsc]

It happens on higher difficulties.
And it can be really frustrating.
Accept it as the part of the difficulty.

[skarczew]

If you complain about yer luck, try playing AoC on UV, like me lately.
Small cave with Arachnotrons for starter is just a SHIFT + Q.

[Ashannar]

I've beaten UV on AoMC, yes. It's pretty easy. Barely managed to eek out a standard win. Now I'm trying for UV Ao100 for a plat badge and I keep running into this issue.

So far, it sounds like this is just a thing most of you deal with. I'm still waiting to hear from people who consistently get out of these situations.

Looking back on it, yes, the smart thing to do would have been to blast them all several times with the shotgun. But when you see that many, it's pretty intimidating to stand there and tank it. I probably could have prevailed, just barely. But if either of those knights had opened the door and greeted me on my way over it wouldn't have been pretty.

[AlterAsc]

I think he meant AoCn not AoMC.
The real fun part was AoOC back in 0995.You don't have to press SHIFT + Q because you're killed before you take action.

[Cotonou]

Yes, the RNG can screw you.  It happens. 

In this case you actually don't want to kill the imps in the first room -- they will block each other's shots, splashing the entire group for free.  Those shots that do slip out are highly inaccurate, and you are running right?

After, in the second room... do it again.  Run straight through.  Those Knights have a real accuracy problem and you will be moving very, very fast.  Just make sure to try to keep a decent tangent line for them to miss.  Attempt to find an empty room to secure and begin corner shooting, or just for distance.   They'll stop chasing eventually.  The one enemy you absolutely have to stop and shoot are sergents.  Shotguns can rip you right the hell up as you try to blow past.

I'm not saying this situation is guaranteed-survivable, but a marine in your condition shouldn't be giving up quite yet.

[skarczew]

I think he meant AoCn not AoMC.
The real fun part was AoOC back in 0995.You don't have to press SHIFT + Q because you're killed before you take action.

Yes, Angel of Confidence.

And I like your version. It would spare me from pressing SHIFT + Q =) .

[2DeviationsOut]

Well, as far as that particular situation goes, I'd duck back to the bottom left of the door, and then fire a shotgun shot in the middle of the imp and the baron/hk (can't really tell). That would most likely bounce the baron back far enough to get you the time to use a medkit, and then resume running/radarshotgunning anything that came out of the door.

[skarczew]

Well, as far as that particular situation goes, I'd duck back to the bottom left of the door, and then fire a shotgun shot in the middle of the imp and the baron/hk (can't really tell). That would most likely bounce the baron back far enough to get you the time to use a medkit, and then resume running/radarshotgunning anything that came out of the door.

You would just get blasted by this left HK - either you, or the wall next to which you are =) .

[Sirdec]

UV has an insane amount of ennemies in a level in comparaison to lower difficulties, running into unexplored parts of the map makes often a situation way worse than it was initially.


From the start of the level :
I would have trying to profit a maximum of my free 3 actions to take out the HK/Imps with Shotgun followed by chaingun. Then put run on, emptying rest of chaingun, while dodging in direction of the health globe. Should have worked, question is : wouldn't the HK from right room open door/go throught the blasted door and join the party...

Deaths by level 3 are probably over 80% of the deaths of any player that tackles UV.

[Tormuse]

I think he meant AoCn not AoMC.
The real fun part was AoOC back in 0995.You don't have to press SHIFT + Q because you're killed before you take action.

Spoiler: I can attest to this!  :D (click to show/hide)

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (v.0.9.9.5) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Tormuse, level 1 Hell Knight 1st Lieutenant Marine,
 let an arachnotron get him on level 1 of Hell.
 He survived 38 turns and scored 4159 points.
 He played for 7 seconds.
 He opposed the Nightmare!

 He killed 0 out of 13 hellspawn. (0%)
 Poor pacifist, didn't even get a single kill...
 He was an Angel of Overconfidence!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 4
  Levels visited   : 0
  Levels completed : 0

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  None

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ###############...#.#..###...........######################
  ###############........#..==........######...##############
  ################.A...##|.....=.......####..#..#############
  ###############.#....#...........|.#####.##################
  ##############.....................####.##.################
  ###############.#...###.A.....#.....####...################
  ###############.^..=.=#...........^...##...################
  ############=##...===.=...##............#..################
  #############===.=.=====......X....A....#...#######..######
  ############=.#========...#.........#.......###|..A}..#####
  ##########==#....===..=...#...A......#...A.A.....#..A######
  ##########==#;.#..=....=.#.......#..A......##..#....#######
  ##########=#####.#.....=+........A....>.....#......########
  #########===#######...A=..#........#.........#.A..#########
  #########==##########..####........#######........#########
  ##########=###########.#####.......######.#A......#########
  ##########=#################......######..#.^.....#########
  #########=######################..######..#..#...#.########
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 0/60   Experience 0/1
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +2  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +3

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Marine

    Brute            (Level 1)

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   nothing
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   combat pistol (3d3) [15/15]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   nothing
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   nothing

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] assault shotgun (7d3) [6/6]
    [b] minigun (1d6)x8 [200/200]
    [c] combat knife (2d5)
    [d] large med-pack
    [e] large med-pack
    [f] 10mm ammo chain (x250)
    [g] shell box (x100)

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    None

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------


-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  On level 1 he finally let an arachnotron get him.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 Welcome to the Doom Roguelike... You enter Hell, level 1. Twisted
 passages carry the smell of death... You shiver from cold... You feel
 there is something really valuable here! You are hit! You are hit! You are
 hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit!
 You are hit! The missile hits the arachnotron. You are hit! You are hit!
 You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You
 are hit! You are hit! You are hit! You die!... Press <Enter>...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 58 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 49 of those were killed.
 1 of those was killed by something unknown.
 And 2 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 6 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 1 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 3 killed the bitch and survived.
 2 showed that it can outsmart hell itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------


(Note that every single one of their shots hit;  Ouch!  Talk about rotten luck!)  :|

Well, as far as that particular situation goes, I'd duck back to the bottom left of the door, and then fire a shotgun shot in the middle of the imp and the baron/hk (can't really tell). That would most likely bounce the baron back far enough to get you the time to use a medkit, and then resume running/radarshotgunning anything that came out of the door.

I don't see that strategy helping in this case.  If you corner-shoot the HKs on the right, the one on the left will get you.  If you corner-shoot the one on the left, the ones on the right will get you.  This scenario doesn't present cover that will protect you from all three of them, so you're going to take a pounding from at least one of them, and since you're only at level 2, you won't be able to take much of a pounding.  The only viable strategies I see here:  1)  Go left back through the door, close it, and move away from it (so it doesn't get destroyed) and go toe to toe with the HK on the left with the shotgun while still running.  The fact that you're running will take away from his accuracy, but not yours.  You'll still take some damage and maybe have to use one or two of those med-packs, but you'll likely be able to kill him before he kills you.  Hopefully, closing the door will have stopped the HKs from the room on the right from seeing you and pursuing you, so after the first one is dead, you can take them out by corner-shooting.  2)  The second strategy I can see is to just keep running right and hope that you can dodge enough of their fire to survive long enough to find cover on the other side.  (or find a berserk pack if you're lucky)

Both of those strategies could fail drastically.  The first one depends on the two HKs on the right not coming through the door prematurely (in which case you'd be totally screwed) and the second one depends on what the rest of the terrain is like.  (For all you know the next room might have three more HKs!)  :P

The fact of the matter is that UV and N! take a mixture of luck and skill to complete.  A skilled player can win a vast majority of the time on UV, but every once in a while, the RNG just shits on you and puts you in a situation that is simply unsurvivable, no matter how skilled you are.  (The mortem posted above is an extreme example of that;  I've lost plenty of games that were going well because of an Arachnotron cave with no cover)

One thing that helped me overcome my first few UV games, back when I was a newbie, was taking levels in Ironman and TaN, so that at least, on those occasions I'm forced to endure a pounding, I actually endure it!  :)  Later, as I got more skilled, and was better at avoiding getting hit in the first place, I found it more helpful to put levels into SoB so I could kill the enemies faster, and so taking damage in return was less of an issue.  Depending on your strategy and playing style, it might be helpful to start by taking levels in HR, so if you find yourself in another situation like this, you can run your ass away!  (And having the 15-30% extra dodging ability is helpful too!)