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Author Topic: [M|AoCn|88%|18|YAVP(YASD)] How do I YAFW?  (Read 1629 times)

Sereg

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[M|AoCn|88%|18|YAVP(YASD)] How do I YAFW?
« on: April 26, 2013, 00:45 »

--------------------------------------------------------------
 DoomRL (0.9.9.7) roguelike post-mortem character dump
--------------------------------------------------------------

 Nathan, level 8 Hell Knight 1st Lieutenant Scout,
 defeated the Mastermind at the Hell Fortress.
 He survived 43924 turns and scored 72910 points.
 He played for 1 hour, 12 minutes and 11 seconds.
 He didn't like it too rough.

 He killed 275 out of 312 hellspawn. (88%)
 He was an Angel of Confidence!

-- Special levels --------------------------------------------

  Levels generated : 8
  Levels visited   : 2
  Levels completed : 1

-- Awards ----------------------------------------------------

  UAC Star (bronze cluster)
  Daredevil Bronze Badge
  Daredevil Silver Badge

-- Graveyard -------------------------------------------------

  ###########################################################
  ...........................................................
  ...........................................................
  ...........................................................
  ...........................................................
  ...........................................................
  ...........................................................
  ...........................................................
  .............................................s.............
  ....................................................s......
  ..............................X................B....s......
  ...........................................................
  ......................................................B....
  ...........................................................
  ...........................................................
  ...........................................................
  ...........................................................
  ...........................................................
  ...........................................................
  ###########################################################

-- Statistics ------------------------------------------------

  Health 0/50   Experience 29338/8
  ToHit Ranged +0  ToHit Melee +0  ToDmg Ranged +0  ToDmg Melee +0

-- Traits ----------------------------------------------------

  Class : Scout

    Finesse          (Level 2)
    Hellrunner       (Level 2)
    Dodgemaster      (Level 1)
    Intuition        (Level 2)
    Whizkid          (Level 1)

  Int->Int->HR->HR->DM->Fin->Fin->WK->

-- Equipment -------------------------------------------------

    [a] [ Armor      ]   nothing
    [b] [ Weapon     ]   Revenant's Launcher (7d6) [0/1]
    [c] [ Boots      ]   phaseshift boots [4/4] (100%)
    [d] [ Prepared   ]   tactical shotgun (8d3) [3/5]

-- Inventory -------------------------------------------------

    [a] hyperblaster (2d4)x3 [40/40]
    [b] high power BFG 9000 (12d6) [25/65]
    [c] red armor [4/4] (100%)
    [d] shotgun shell (x50)
    [e] shotgun shell (x34)
    [f] rocket (x10)
    [g] rocket (x10)
    [h] rocket (x10)
    [i] rocket (x6)
    [j] small med-pack
    [k] small med-pack
    [l] small med-pack
    [m] small med-pack
    [n] envirosuit pack
    [o] agility mod pack
    [p] shell box (x100)

-- Resistances -----------------------------------------------

    None

-- Kills -----------------------------------------------------

    30 former humans
    28 former sergeants
    7 former captains
    31 imps
    39 demons
    84 lost souls
    13 cacodemons
    8 hell knights
    7 barons of hell
    7 arachnotrons
    3 former commandos
    3 pain elementals
    4 revenants
    5 mancubi
    4 arch-viles
    1 Cyberdemon
    1 Spider Mastermind

-- History ---------------------------------------------------

  On level 1 he entered Deimos Lab.
  He left the Deimos Lab without drawing too much attention.
  On level 4 he found the Lava Armor!
  On level 5 he assembled a tactical shotgun!
  On level 6 he ventured into the Halls of Carnage.
  On level 8 he found the Tower of Babel!
  On level 11 he found the Revenant's Launcher!
  On level 13 he assembled a hyperblaster!
  On level 13 he assembled a high power weapon!
  Then at last he found Dis!
  He nuked level 16!
  He defeated the Mastermind and found the TRUE EVIL!
  On level 17 he finally defeated the Mastermind.

-- Messages --------------------------------------------------

 You reload the tactical shotgun.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : floor
 You hear the scream of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul! You
 hear the scream of a freed soul! You are hit! Your red armor is damaged!
 You swap your weapons.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : blood
 You hear the scream of a freed soul! The lost soul dies. You hear the scream
 of a freed soul! You hear the scream of a freed soul!
 You reload the Revenant's Launcher.
 Fire -- Choose target...
 You see : blood
 The missile hits the lost soul. You hear the scream of a freed soul! The lost
 soul dies. You are hit! Your red armor is completely destroyed! You die!...
 Press <Enter>...

-- General ---------------------------------------------------

 599 brave souls have ventured into Phobos:
 525 of those were killed.
 2 of those were killed by something unknown.
 18 didn't read the thermonuclear bomb manual.
 And 40 couldn't handle the stress and committed a stupid suicide.

 14 souls destroyed the Mastermind...
 4 sacrificed itself for the good of mankind.
 10 killed the bitch and survived.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing spectacular, obviously - just a basic HNTR AoCn. My question is, could I have pulled off a full win with what I had? If so, how? I'm quite inexperienced dealing with JC(or whatever it is now, I've only very recently picked up the latest version after a long absence), and I have no idea how to deal with... just... so many Barons. To be perfectly honest, I've never even fought the mastermind - both of my wins since I picked DoomRL back up have been nukes in Dis, and I had quite a time with just the Cyberdemon - I was Berserk from the previous level, or I probably wouldn't have survived.

I'm starting to get better at dealing with regular enemies by using walls and positioning, but I'm clueless about how to fight in the open.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 01:03 by Sereg »
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Evilpotatoe

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Re: [M|AoCn|88%|18|YAVP(YASD)] How do I YAFW?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2013, 01:50 »

Usually, you're compeletely overpowered when you reach JC.

Here, I think your best bet was to shoot him with your hyperblaster, and use some BFG shots to clear barons if the screen started filling too much.
Btw, high power BFG is a pure waste. keep bulks to increase the number of shots (1 more shot per bulk, B3 BFG has 220 cells !).

You might also have sacrificed your intuition to the envirosuit, for the resistances against both barons and rockets.


For fight in the open, the best is to have an insane firepower. For me, most usuful skill are, in that order : SoB, EE, Fin.  MCe helps a lot too, especially if you got enough speed to stay out of LOS of your opponents, but I'm not sure hit&run works for JC (I never tried it).
Without enough firepower, you'll quickly get swarmed, and need to get back to some cover... which hell fortress doesn't offer.
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LuckyDee

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Re: [M|AoCn|88%|18|YAVP(YASD)] How do I YAFW?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2013, 01:51 »

I've run into JC only a couple of times as of yet (all in 0997), and I've seen nothing besides souls and cacos (on HNTR, that is)...
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MaiZure

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Re: [M|AoCn|88%|18|YAVP(YASD)] How do I YAFW?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2013, 02:11 »

I've run into JC only a couple of times as of yet (all in 0997), and I've seen nothing besides souls and cacos (on HNTR, that is)...

I've only seen him on UV in this version - and he was definitely putting out Barons.
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Radagast

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Re: [M|AoCn|88%|18|YAVP(YASD)] How do I YAFW?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2013, 04:15 »

barons... hell knights.. and revenants in fact... but I guess experience is basically from UV here too.

High powered bfg I agree it's a huge waste and a useless weapon too. What can just one shot really do on bosses? not much.
You can't really reload such weapons with JC, unless you phase away first...

Good point for the envirosuit, but tbh I always forget it as well concerning that kind of use.
Knowing it doesn't help much from forgetting it...

And something last. You do realize you have awful damage potential with :

Int->Int->HR->HR->DM->Fin->Fin->WK

Finesse is nice but no Sob and no EE levels at all will never help much since most weapons either benefit greatly from at least one of those two traits. On late levels let alone high difficulties this is an uber fail build imo, at least in terms of dmg. At least you were lucky enough to get a revenant launcher, but the shotgun for example is not good enough imo without a few sob levels. And rapid weapons usually need both EE/Sob.

As for fighting in the open it's usually unadvised but it becomes pretty easy with high speeds (antigr/tactical boots and/or HR levels.) Intuition/Cateye builds make this even easier but you do need an EE or two, for the accuracy. It's been more than once that I killed mastermind and cyberdemon damageless in this way, with just running and backpedaling around and around the whole level, while shooting off-screen with any weapons available, abusing the intuition trait and emptying all of them in the process. You might try it at some point, at least with the build you had in this game, it was pretty much doable with minor changes on some trait levels.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 04:39 by Radagast »
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Tormuse

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Re: [M|AoCn|88%|18|YAVP(YASD)] How do I YAFW?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2013, 10:24 »

I agree that with this build and equipment, you didn't have a chance.  Your best bet would be to drill JC with the Hyperblaster, but you don't have enough cells to finish him and without SOB/EE, you wouldn't do nearly enough damage.  Alternately, if you don't want SOB, you could go for Berserker and charge him with the Chainsaw.  :)  (or Chainsword, since this is AoCn)
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SageAcrin

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Re: [M|AoCn|88%|18|YAVP(YASD)] How do I YAFW?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2013, 11:04 »

I would have stuck with the Rev Launcher-it works best from out of LoS, given the nature of it is basically always-hit, and that's basically the only thing your build has going for it, out of LoS damage. Try to stay as far away from him as possible given the nature of the area, and pelt him after teleports.

The problem is that it's basically entirely luck. As other people said, your damage potential is really, really low, and high power BFG wrecks the use of the BFG in cases like this. (I consider the high power/biggest assemblies for BFGs to only be actually good on N! or for Nuclear BFGs. Though currently Biggest Fucking Gun is the only Assembly I'm missing, so it might be better without N! ammo farming than I think.)

Incidentally that setup would have pureed the Mastermind without nukes; Rev Launcher with Intuition to figure out where to corner shoot it against him is very, very good in that fight. Probably would have been better off not going for Full.

Quote
but the shotgun for example is not good enough imo without a few sob levels.

Really? Unless you're firing it at full screen a lot, I barely notice a difference. (I think the bonus SoB damage must come in after the falloff is calculated, I can't explain that well otherwise.)

Lots of guns, yes; Rapid, pistols, everything but shotguns, and even double shotguns, I notice some real impact from SoB from. But normal shotguns?
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White Rider

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Re: [M|AoCn|88%|18|YAVP(YASD)] How do I YAFW?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2013, 11:11 »

Got a full win on ITYTD last night, JC was pulling out lost souls, cacodemons, hell knights/barons (don't remember which) and revenants even on ITYTD.
So I think it's safe to assume his order of summoned reinforcements are the same per difficulty.

Having said that though, I don't think I've attempted a full win on Cn/OC...
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Sereg

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Re: [M|AoCn|88%|18|YAVP(YASD)] How do I YAFW?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2013, 11:33 »

Thanks for all the feedback. I really don't know very much about building - until recently I've just been going for Ammochain in every game(mostly Ao100 attempts, since I figured ammo would be a problem). For this one I went for the intuition and movespeed first, and the higher tier modding after, but I don't really know how efficient either of those is.

I wasn't actually planning on a Full Win, but with an invulnerability orb on the last level of hell and a nuke in my inventory... well, why not try?

I was low on phase ammo and large medkits for that entire run - usually I try to keep at least four or five slots of energy ammo on me(but I burnt most of what I did find, including a battery, on the Cyberdemon), and quite a few medkits, but it was not to be this game.
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Cyberdemon Chaos Colonel

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