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[BDR]

I can't believe I just noticed it now, but it seems knockback is only applied to base damage rolls.  Extra traits don't seem to affect this at all, which seems odd because you'd usually think a harder-hitting weapon = more kick.  Adding damage mods, on the other hand, does increase the chance of knockback.  This is most easily seen in AoMr, where SoG has absolutely no effect on how far you can throw baddies (whereas damage mods will allow you to knockback spiders with ease).  Any thoughts on this?

EDIT: I also want to say that something is definitely off with SoG (or the listing on the wiki for HP is incorrect).  I can confirm that it took 3 shots to kill a human sergeant without any armor on, while I had 3 levels in SoG.  I'd have a screenshot of my messages, but it seems pressing F10 while in the past message menu doesn't have any effect; I guess it only works for the main screen and not any of the sub-screens.  In any case, either the human sergeant has at least 15 HP (1+6+1+6=14), or the damage bonus is only +1 per level (1+3+1+3=8).

[DaEezT]

Another thing about knockback is that it seems to be hit based instead of attack based. i.e. multiple hits from chaingun/plasma/dualgunner during one attack don't add up for calculating knockback as far as I can tell.

[Firstblood]

Thats good that its hit based though, otherwise you don't need RL and BFG anymore, with a CG or PR you could knockback any enemy just by firing at it. PR unmodified already has a slim chance of knockback on enemies (which just makes PR a little more inaccurate actually, esp. if the first shot performs knockback and the target is somewhat diagonal to you).

[TFoN]

In any case, either the human sergeant has at least 15 HP (1+6+1+6=14), or the damage bonus is only +1 per level (1+3+1+3=8).

If sergeants have no natural armour, that should be 2+6+2+6 - pistol damage's 2d4, i.e. 2-8.

I think the knockback issue is a good indication that damage bonuses for traits don't apply.

Thats good that its hit based though, otherwise you don't need RL and BFG anymore, with a CG or PR you could knockback any enemy just by firing at it. PR unmodified already has a slim chance of knockback on enemies (which just makes PR a little more inaccurate actually, esp. if the first shot performs knockback and the target is somewhat diagonal to you).

I disagree - I use the RL to knock both multiple targets out of my LOS, and occasionally to knock myself out of theirs, too. Neither of these can be achieved by use of any single-target weapon.


Say, does it make sense to anyone that any knockback distance blocked by an object (wall/other creature) should be transformed into proportional damage to the "un-knocked-back"?

[BDR]

If sergeants have no natural armour, that should be 2+6+2+6 - pistol damage's 2d4, i.e. 2-8.

Whoops, thought I might have gotten it wrong.  But in that case (if sergeants don't have any natural armor, and do have only 10 HP) SoG has no damage bonus at all: 2+3+2+3=10 exactly, so even if you scored critical scratches you should still be able to kill armorless former foos with two bullets and SoG 3, but this is clearly not the case.

Say, does it make sense to anyone that any knockback distance blocked by an object (wall/other creature) should be transformed into proportional damage to the "un-knocked-back"?

That would indeed make sense.  There'd have to be diminishing returns, though, and also a maximum on the amount of extra damage inflicted.

EDIT: Got a screenshot for proof of lack of damage bonus in SoG.  Tell me, does it make sense for a lost soul to survive two shots with 3 SoG levels, given that it *can't* wear armor, has none naturally, and from what we know only has 10 HP?

Code: [Select]

Fire -- Choose target... The missile hits the lost soul. The missile hits     
 the lost soul.                                                                 
 ############################################################################# 
 #....#.....................#.................#.....#.........................#
 #....#.......>.............#................./.....#.........................#
 #..../.....................#...........%.....#.....#.........................#
 #...%#...............%.....#.................#.....#.........0...............#
 #....#...................../.................#.....#.........................#
 #....#######################+##############/##0....#.........................#
 #....#.......................#...............#.....#.........................#
 #....+.......................#......%........#.....#.........................#
 #....#....0................../...............#.....#.........................#
 #....#############/###########################.....#.........................#
 #....#.......00.......00...........%.........#...../.........................#
 #....#.......................................#.....#.........................#
 #....#.......0...............................#.....#.............0...........#
 #....###+##+########+#####################/###.....#......................0..#
 #....#......................................./.....#..................0......#
 #..../.......................%...............#####################/###########
 #....#.......................................#   |.....s..@..................#
 #....#.......................................#   ............................#
 ##############################################     ########################## 
 John Romero                Armor : green armor [1/1] (54%)  Phobos Base  Lev7 
 Health: 50%  Exp:  4/6%    Weapon: advanced pistol (2d4) [5/6]                 
 aggressive                                                                     


[Firstblood]

I actually think Lost Souls have less than 10 hp. They die in less shots than Former Humans and Imps (souls normally die in 2 pistol shots, whereas FH and I are 2-3 shots, 4 if unlucky).

I'm pretty sure Former Humans have 10 hp. If you kill a Former Human wearing armor, the armor takes about 10% damage (sometimes a bit more).

[Malek Deneith]

I actually think Lost Souls have less than 10 hp. They die in less shots than Former Humans and Imps (souls normally die in 2 pistol shots, whereas FH and I are 2-3 shots, 4 if unlucky).

The monster HP displayed on wiki are confirmed - if it says they have 10 hp than they have 10 hp. (Unless Kornel tinkered with the numbers recently but it doesn't seem so)