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Discussion on game development

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Kornel Kisielewicz:

--- Quote from: Karry on June 13, 2007, 12:19 ---I have no idea how good of a coder he is. He's keen on gamedesign, thats obvious. Somehow i just cant see roguelikes as a pinnacle of coding...

--- End quote ---
Actually roguelikes are a quite challenging thing to code, especially in the randomness department. Coding a RPG/Shooter/Strategy is much easier :/.

Karry:

--- Quote ---Coding a RPG/Shooter/Strategy is much easier :/.
--- End quote ---
I wouldnt say that...especially in the case of commercial products. I am in the game-making team now.
It takes A LOT of time to wade through someone else's graphics engine, for example.
Various hardware compatibility...
Creating AI for A-class shooter is no easy task either...
Physical engines arent that common yet, but will become a requirement soon...

Rabiat:

--- Quote from: Blade ---DooMRL is very stable. It have some glitches, bugs, exploits, but they are not deadly, it crashes totally very rarely. For me good coder is not the one who have written overmoded unstable code, but the one who have written a little less moded, but stable code.
--- End quote ---

I don't mean to disrespect Kornel's work, but DoomRL isn't by far as stable as you're saying. There's been a lot of improvement, but the game used to crash on many occasions.


--- Quote from: Kornel Kisielewicz ---Actually roguelikes are a quite challenging thing to code, especially in the randomness department. Coding a RPG/Shooter/Strategy is much easier :/.
--- End quote ---

I agree that coding a roguelike is more challenging than might appear from the result. Most people seem to think that a text-based application is necessarily simple to code. Randomness (level/monster generators) and LOS/pathfinding/AI are tricky subjects. Nevertheless I think you're vastly underestimating the development of RPG/FPS/RTS. Randomness in RLs has its complications, but there's also lots of things you can disregard in a roguelike, especially graphics, controller support, real time processing and multiplayer support, and usually sound support - unless you're coding DoomRL of course. ;)

Blade:

--- Quote from: Rabiat on June 19, 2007, 02:54 ---I don't mean to disrespect Kornel's work, but DoomRL isn't by far as stable as you're saying. There's been a lot of improvement, but the game used to crash on many occasions.

--- End quote ---

Mmm. Yes, 0987 crashes sometimes, but in Beta all known crashes was fixed. At least i don't know now how to crash it, i have played a lots of games, and it haven't crashed.

Kornel Kisielewicz:

--- Quote from: Karry on June 17, 2007, 10:00 ---
--- Quote ---Coding a RPG/Shooter/Strategy is much easier :/.
--- End quote ---
I wouldnt say that...especially in the case of commercial products. I am in the game-making team now.

--- End quote ---
So am I ;].


--- Quote from: Karry on June 17, 2007, 10:00 ---It takes A LOT of time to wade through someone else's graphics engine, for example.
Various hardware compatibility...

--- End quote ---
Depends on the engine quality. Commercial engines are usualy a lot better documented than their OS counterparts.


--- Quote from: Karry on June 17, 2007, 10:00 ---Creating AI for A-class shooter is no easy task either...

--- End quote ---
Compared to behavioral AI with danger-aware pathfinding for a roguelike? xP


--- Quote from: Karry on June 17, 2007, 10:00 ---Physical engines arent that common yet, but will become a requirement soon...

--- End quote ---
Physics engines (I guess you're refering to those) ARE a requirement since about late 2005. They aren't as scary as they sound though. And most people use existing engines anyway.


--- Quote from: Rabiat on June 19, 2007, 02:54 ---
--- Quote from: Blade ---DooMRL is very stable. It have some glitches, bugs, exploits, but they are not deadly, it crashes totally very rarely. For me good coder is not the one who have written overmoded unstable code, but the one who have written a little less moded, but stable code.
--- End quote ---
I don't mean to disrespect Kornel's work, but DoomRL isn't by far as stable as you're saying. There's been a lot of improvement, but the game used to crash on many occasions.

--- End quote ---
I have to agree. It's mostly due to the fact that the core engine was hacked together, and never was meant to be released.


--- Quote from: Rabiat on June 19, 2007, 02:54 ---
--- Quote from: Kornel Kisielewicz ---Actually roguelikes are a quite challenging thing to code, especially in the randomness department. Coding a RPG/Shooter/Strategy is much easier :/.
--- End quote ---
I agree that coding a roguelike is more challenging than might appear from the result. Most people seem to think that a text-based application is necessarily simple to code. Randomness (level/monster generators) and LOS/pathfinding/AI are tricky subjects. Nevertheless I think you're vastly underestimating the development of RPG/FPS/RTS.
--- End quote ---
I'm not ;). Actually the biggest problem with those games is content creation. Just look around on the thousands of projects that have been created that died ONLY because the lack of content. Roguelikes on the other hand have a way to cheat that problem -- they create content themselves. But that thing is realy NON-trivial, so that's why most roguelikes fail.

The biggest trick is NOT to generate content. It's to generate PLAYABLE content.

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