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Author Topic: Frozen Depth 1.02 released!  (Read 46439 times)

Rabiat

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Re: Frozen Depth 1.02 released!
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2007, 03:16 »

Quote from: DisaffectedBeta
You can imagine a walking bomb as not literally a walking bomb, but like a spherical, fat little grinning creature (...)

Thanks for the vivid description. Now I must resist the urge to prick those meatballs with a trident to see if they're done. :)

Seriously though, I never liked animated objects, such as animated swords, rolling boulders or dust clouds, in any Roguelike (golems are the exception). Somehow they're just too artificial, and not as gratifying to slice. Of course it's a matter of taste, but I always disliked the Hall of Blades in Crawl for example.

On the other hand, finally beating a 'tough dust cloud' after fleeing upstairs and restoring health four or five times did feel like an achievement. :) These monsters with extra toughness, speed or experience modifiers are nasty.

Quote from: Glowie
It is supposed to happen, and DisaffectedBeta's explanation is exactly what I was thinking while creating it.

His explanation is what came to mind when it happened. That was the only 'strange' behaviour I could think of. On the whole I think the game behaves very well, and I haven't seen any obvious bugs (except maybe some minor grammar issues such as missing articles and singular/plural mismatches).*

Quote
And about those descriptions. I thought about this when I started creating the monsters, but in the end I decided that it takes too long to write a description for 150 monsters.

I think you're right. Most monsters have expected behaviour, and if they don't, you'll remember after a few encounters. If you're going to add descriptions at all, I'd very much like to see weapon descriptions. At times it's hard to guess a weapon's class, or its stats. I mostly just go by the inventory list order, or the equipment asterisk. Also I've noticed that there are several weapon skills, but I haven't found a list of those. Could you give a short explanation on this, or would that be spoiling?

Edit: I just had a very successful run with another dwarf fighter cut short by a wraith. This thing punched me so hard that my health dropped from around 40 to -98 in a single hit! Not fair! :(

* Come to think of it, there's two more things. You can pick up small bombs after throwing them. I expected them to explode and disappear, even if this is the standard behaviour for thrown weapons. Also, I found a Wand of Greater Identification which didn't work all the time, even though it had charges left. It just refused to ID one of my unidentified weapons, but allowed me to select another item to identify. I have no idea why this happened.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2007, 04:41 by Rabiat »
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DisaffectedBeta

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Re: Frozen Depth 1.02 released!
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2007, 05:32 »

Rabiat, did it ever let you identify a weapon?  I thought the wand of ID was just for potions or wands.  That was the impression I got, at least.  I wanted to use it to see if something was cursed, but it never let me select them.  Perhaps another item is in order for such an ID.

I never got far enough to see the dust cloud.  They sound like a pain.
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Glowie

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Re: Frozen Depth 1.02 released!
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2007, 05:50 »

Seriously though, I never liked animated objects, such as animated swords, rolling boulders or dust clouds, in any Roguelike (golems are the exception). Somehow they're just too artificial, and not as gratifying to slice. Of course it's a matter of taste, but I always disliked the Hall of Blades in Crawl for example.

On the other hand, finally beating a 'tough dust cloud' after fleeing upstairs and restoring health four or five times did feel like an achievement. :) These monsters with extra toughness, speed or experience modifiers are nasty.

Strange, I've never had problems with artificial monsters, if it bleeds, kill it! (And all monsters in FD bleed, even the metallic ones. Odd, eh?). Those superior monsters are meant to be very hard later on. It's sometimes wiser to flee from them and continue to the next floor if you aren't sure if you can beat them.

Quote from: Glowie
It is supposed to happen, and DisaffectedBeta's explanation is exactly what I was thinking while creating it.

His explanation is what came to mind when it happened. That was the only 'strange' behaviour I could think of. On the whole I think the game behaves very well, and I haven't seen any obvious bugs (except maybe some minor grammar issues such as missing articles and singular/plural mismatches).*

Yeah I know there are those missing articles and singular/plural mismatches, but I found it useless to add a lot of code to detect whether an item or a monster starts with a vowel or a consonant. It doesn't make the messages incomprehensible. Unfortunately there are a few bugs, and you just found one aswell. I'm planning to quietly release a new .exe, which fixes a few annoying or nearly critical bugs. The next version isn't coming out any time soon, so I don't want a flawed version to be the newest one.


At times it's hard to guess a weapon's class, or its stats. I mostly just go by the inventory list order, or the equipment asterisk. Also I've noticed that there are several weapon skills, but I haven't found a list of those. Could you give a short explanation on this, or would that be spoiling?

Usually the weapon stats are pretty straightforward. A crude bronze weapon is better than a copper weapon, but worse than a non-crude bronze weapon. Sometimes blessed crude weapons are better than uncursed non-crude weapon though. Unfortunately you just have to check whether a weapon is 1 handed or 2 handed by unequipping the previous weapon and looking at the available weapons list. By the way, the asterisk only appears if there's a better item of same weapon class. For example, if you find a bronze 2 handed weapon, and you're wielding a copper 1 handed weapon, the asterisk doesn't appear. But if you find a 1 handed bronze weapon, it appears.

Uhm, the weapon skills shouldn't be mysterious, it just means how well you can handle a certain weapon type. Press '@' to see your character's stats, including the weapon skills. For example, twohanded weapon skill increases occasionally when you use two-handed weapons, and it increases the damage and chance to hit slightly with those 2H weapons. Did I understand your question correctly?

Edit: I just had a very successful run with another dwarf fighter cut short by a wraith. This thing punched me so hard that my health dropped from around 40 to -98 in a single hit! Not fair! :(

* Come to think of it, there's two more things. You can pick up small bombs after throwing them. I expected them to explode and disappear, even if this is the standard behaviour for thrown weapons. Also, I found a Wand of Greater Identification which didn't work all the time, even though it had charges left. It just refused to ID one of my unidentified weapons, but allowed me to select another item to identify. I have no idea why this happened.

Holy cr*p! I'm sorry about that Wraith death, that was a bug. For some reason I've mixed the Wraith's minimum damage and health, which means that it's damn weak, but insanely deadly. I'll fix this in the silent update I mentioned. I'll add a news message on FD's site when the update is uploaded. Getting to floor ~40 is very good playing though!

Haha, I never thought of that when I added the small bomb's name. I'll change it, it really doesn't make sense. Who would throw bombs that don't explode? :)

Wand of Greater Identification doesn't identify weapons. It identifies accessories, other wands and potions. You can use it on already identified weapons that have a prefix to learn more about the prefix though.

And I replied to DisaffectedBeta's post in a private message. (Lazy me).

Thanks for the feedback Rabiat!
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Glowie

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Re: Frozen Depth 1.02 released!
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2007, 05:52 »

Rabiat, did it ever let you identify a weapon?  I thought the wand of ID was just for potions or wands.  That was the impression I got, at least.  I wanted to use it to see if something was cursed, but it never let me select them.  Perhaps another item is in order for such an ID.

I never got far enough to see the dust cloud.  They sound like a pain.

Great, you managed to post while I was writing a reply to Rabiat. Anyway, there IS a wand that identifies B/C/U statuses of weapons, pieces of armour and clothing.
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BDR

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Re: Frozen Depth 1.02 released!
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2007, 10:42 »

I just wanted to say that as a fan of IVAN, a game where dual-wielding in the long run beats wielding a single weapon and (debatably) beats two-handers, that I find it disappointing that it seems like you can never hit twice in a row while wielding two weapons; you can miss twice in a row, you can miss first and hit second, and you can score a hit on your first try, but you'll never get two hits.  This is bad because it really, really weakens dual-wielding.  Maybe that's the point, and the only reason you'd ever dual-wield is because of the x% increase in chance to hit, but what's the point when as a human warrior I start with better 2H skill anyway?  But I'm hoping this is just an oversight. ;)
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Glowie

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Re: Frozen Depth 1.02 released!
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2007, 12:21 »

I just wanted to say that as a fan of IVAN, a game where dual-wielding in the long run beats wielding a single weapon and (debatably) beats two-handers, that I find it disappointing that it seems like you can never hit twice in a row while wielding two weapons; you can miss twice in a row, you can miss first and hit second, and you can score a hit on your first try, but you'll never get two hits.  This is bad because it really, really weakens dual-wielding.  Maybe that's the point, and the only reason you'd ever dual-wield is because of the x% increase in chance to hit, but what's the point when as a human warrior I start with better 2H skill anyway?  But I'm hoping this is just an oversight. ;)

Congratulations, you're the third person to notice this bug. If you read my previous reply to Rabiat, you know about the silent fix I'm going to make, and this bug will be fixed then. I play the game quite fast and don't bother reading the messages, so this bug managed to get in the release. Thanks for posting this, though. You might have been the first one to report it, you never know. :)

And about IVAN and its dual wielding. I don't really know anything about IVAN, but I think dual wielding, two-handed weapons and 1 handed + shield should all be viable options.
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Rabiat

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Re: Frozen Depth 1.02 released!
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2007, 15:05 »

Quote from: DisaffectedBeta
Rabiat, did it ever let you identify a weapon?  I thought the wand of ID was just for potions or wands.  That was the impression I got, at least.  I wanted to use it to see if something was cursed, but it never let me select them.  Perhaps another item is in order for such an ID.

Quote from: Glowie
Wand of Greater Identification doesn't identify weapons. It identifies accessories, other wands and potions. You can use it on already identified weapons that have a prefix to learn more about the prefix though.

This explains things. The first time I used the Wand of Greater ID on a strange-looking weapon (a crude mithril scythe) it happened to be a 'cold draining' type weapon. So I was under the impression that the wand could be used to identify any weapon. Apparently this was an exception to the rule, since I couldn't use the wand afterwards to ID weapons at all, but it still had charges left to ID potions.

Quote from: DisaffectedBeta
I never got far enough to see the dust cloud.  They sound like a pain.

They're not that dangerous, but mostly just tough. And confusing. I destroyed a fair number of them wearing an Amulet of the Clear Mind, which makes you almost immune to confusion. It took me ages to get rid of a "tough dust cloud", because its insane toughness was multiplied by, well, a lot more toughness. ;)

Quote from: Glowie
Those superior monsters are meant to be very hard later on. It's sometimes wiser to flee from them and continue to the next floor if you aren't sure if you can beat them.

I like these superior monsters. I've handled a few of them with a berserker/coward approach. Activate Fighter's Strength and aggressive tactics, zap a Wand of Blood if you have one, hit that thing like a freight train, and as soon as your health drops to dangerous levels, switch to defensive and run like hell to get upstairs. :)

Quote from: Glowie
Uhm, the weapon skills shouldn't be mysterious, it just means how well you can handle a certain weapon type. Press '@' to see your character's stats, including the weapon skills. (...) Did I understand your question correctly?

I can't believe that all this time I completely overlooked the weapon skills list in the @ screen. :$ Thanks for pointing it out to me, and for the explanation on weapon types and the asterisk.

Quote from: Glowie
Holy cr*p! I'm sorry about that Wraith death, that was a bug. For some reason I've mixed the Wraith's minimum damage and health, which means that it's damn weak, but insanely deadly. I'll fix this in the silent update I mentioned. I'll add a news message on FD's site when the update is uploaded. Getting to floor ~40 is very good playing though!

Heheh, I thought wraiths were supposed to be unfair. :) But -98 HP did raise the mental image of a Dwarf smoothie straight from the blender. ;) Anyway, this wraith was the first I ever met, on level 37 I think, and the only reason I got there was because I played very conservatively. Lingering on levels getting XP, fleeing at low HP, ID'ing potentially dangerous items, and at times being a lucky bastard. Also I've been able to plan ahead to train the stats for the skills I wanted. Warrior's Strength, Wild Generation and Destroy Walls made life a lot easier.

Hope you'll be able fix the wraith behaviour soon. Good luck with that, and I'll check back regularly for the update.
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BDR

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Re: Frozen Depth 1.02 released!
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2007, 20:49 »

And about IVAN and its dual wielding. I don't really know anything about IVAN, but I think dual wielding, two-handed weapons and 1 handed + shield should all be viable options.

Dual-wielding is extremely popular in IVAN because if you increase your arm strength enough, and have a wand of cloning (even empty will do thanks to 'a'pplying/breaking the wand granting one last charge), you can wield two of the exact same kind of weapon (which AFAIK if done means that you get both the bonus for using a weapon type you're experienced with twice, as well as the bonus for using that particular weapon twice).  Add to that anything you did to the weapon before cloning and you can get two very, very nice weapons to slay with.  2H weapons can work in IVAN, though it really helps to get one early so you can train up the skill and arm strength for it, and you'll likely also need to find enchant weapon scrolls to make it more survivably accurate (the iron 2H scimitar, for example, is by default "extremely inaccurate").  1H + Shield is pretty uncommon, because usually by the time you find a worthwhile shield you've already chosen one of the other two options.  The combat mechanics are plenty different enough that I figure it's not gonna be a problem to get what you're aiming for.

Also, after several tries I finally managed to reach level 10 where that boss killed me.  I could probably kill him easily, but I'll need to make better use of wall destruction, and possibly wands of detection if I can find them..  Is there any way to recharge wands, by the way, or are they useless once they run dry?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2007, 22:47 by BDR »
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DisaffectedBeta

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Re: Frozen Depth 1.02 released!
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2007, 05:27 »

BDR:

So, the wand DOES work on a weapon IF it has a special property?  Like, you can click on each weapon, like a geiger counter, and when it gets a spike you lose a charge?  Really?  Because I kinda like that mechanic in general for identification wands...
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Glowie

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Re: Frozen Depth 1.02 released!
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2007, 06:53 »

So, the wand DOES work on a weapon IF it has a special property?  Like, you can click on each weapon, like a geiger counter, and when it gets a spike you lose a charge?  Really?  Because I kinda like that mechanic in general for identification wands...

Nope, it doesn't work like that. You can't identify weapons and pieces of armor if you don't know their B/C/U statuses. That means you have to wear them first (or zap a wand of curse detection) and thus reveal the prefix. After that you can use the wand of greater identification on the already identified piece of equipment to reveal more info about the prefix. The prefix names are sometimes quite mysterious, so this way you can find out what they mean.

Also, after several tries I finally managed to reach level 10 where that boss killed me.  I could probably kill him easily, but I'll need to make better use of wall destruction, and possibly wands of detection if I can find them..  Is there any way to recharge wands, by the way, or are they useless once they run dry?

I'm sure you can kill the boss soon enough if you think of a plan or happen to find a good wand. Wands aren't completely useless after they run dry, though sometimes you may want to sell them. Like in many roguelikes, zapping a dry wand many, many times results in a last charge. Also there is a shrine event that can recharge a random wand, but that's not very reliable.

And to Rabiat: I've updated the zip file on the website now, you can venture deeper into the caves now.
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DisaffectedBeta

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Re: Frozen Depth 1.02 released!
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2007, 07:25 »

Is that update just for Rabiat or can we all download it? :)
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Glowie

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Re: Frozen Depth 1.02 released!
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2007, 08:09 »

Is that update just for Rabiat or can we all download it? :)

Of course you all can download it, Rabiat just mentioned that he's checking the site, so I thought I'd let him know it's out. :)
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Rabiat

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Re: Frozen Depth 1.02 released!
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2007, 09:45 »

Quote from: DisaffectedBeta
And to Rabiat: I've updated the zip file on the website now, you can venture deeper into the caves now.

Thanks for fixing it so quickly. I'm afraid I won't be going any deeper into the caves any time soon though, because my Dwarf's kinda dead. ;)

But I'll start over and maybe I'll finally try an archer character.
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Blade

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Re: Frozen Depth 1.02 released!
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2007, 13:13 »

Thanks, Glowie!

I was always trying to kill this Wraiths as soon as i see them by activating Warrior's strength, Critical strike and Accurate fighting style. If you are lucky enough, you have a chance to kill them by 1 or 2 attacks without getting hit. I thought that they are like walking death - they have little chance to hit, but if they hit you with their hand of DOOM, you have a great chance to die instantly.))

Two questions: is there are anything good in that you are  "closer to the Goddess"? I had read scroll and it said that i'm now "closer to the Goddess".))
Second one: is there are anything good in sacrificing armor, weapons and clothings to the Goddess, or she takes only money, wands, potions, and valuables(like all woman)).
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Glowie

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Re: Frozen Depth 1.02 released!
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2007, 13:33 »

Thanks, Glowie!

I was always trying to kill this Wraiths as soon as i see them by activating Warrior's strength, Critical strike and Accurate fighting style. If you are lucky enough, you have a chance to kill them by 1 or 2 attacks without getting hit. I thought that they are like walking death - they have little chance to hit, but if they hit you with their hand of DOOM, you have a great chance to die instantly.))

Haha, great way of killing them, though their chance to hit is as good as any other monster's at that level, so they were VERY deadly walking deaths.

Two questions: is there are anything good in that you are  "closer to the Goddess"? I had read scroll and it said that i'm now "closer to the Goddess".))
Second one: is there are anything good in sacrificing armor, weapons and clothings to the Goddess, or she takes only money, wands, potions, and valuables

Being closer to the Goddess is my mysterious way of telling the player that he just got a bit of piety without having to sacrifice anything. There's nothing else in that.

Ammunition is the only thing that doesn't increase your piety when sacrificed. Weapons, clothing and pieces of armor increase piety, but it's a lot less than what, for example, valuable things give. The amount of piety you get when you sacrifice an item is the same as the amount of gold you get when you sell the item.

(like all woman)).

Haha!
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