Chaosforge Forum

  • April 28, 2024, 05:16
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.



Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All

Author Topic: Dual weild  (Read 15526 times)

BDR

  • Elder
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 400
    • View Profile
Re: Dual weild
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2007, 00:50 »

Pistol + knife hasn't been discussed in this thread at all, although that *does* bring to mind an image of Snake/Big Boss from MGS3 with his Close Combat training, which I have to admit is cool.  However, I'm not sure it'd really work well in DoomRL, unless you were able to do things like take former humans as hostages and fire at the other bastard demons in the area, culminating in the execution of the hostage when everyone else was dead.  The only bad side of enabling *that* would be a fairly significant loss in Doomyness (and people thought the Intuition 3 sniper gaming was bad.. :P).
Logged

Potman

  • Major
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Re: Dual weild
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2007, 01:59 »

I think you should be able to attach your knife to a weapon. Then it'd work kinda better.

Or even chainsaw. Like in Gears of War.
Logged

archaon

  • Private FC
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Dual weild
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2007, 09:55 »

Good thinking Potman.

Bayonets would make a great addition. :)
Logged

RickVoid

  • Elder
  • Second Lieutenant
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 177
    • View Profile
Re: Dual weild
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2007, 10:32 »

Good thinking Potman.

Bayonets would make a great addition. :)

Hee hee hee...

Oh no! Out of ammo!

Code: [Select]
#########
#.......#
#.......#
#..@.i..#
#.......#
#.......#
#########

DODGE!

Code: [Select]
#########
#.......#
#..@i...#
#.......#
#.......#
#.......#
#########

STAB!

Code: [Select]
#########
#.......#
#..@%...#
#.......#
#.......#
#.......#
#########

Muhahaha!
Logged
Campbell: Snake, press the action button.
Snake: ... What?
Campbell: The action button, on the control pad.
Snake: What!?

Const

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Re: Dual weild
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2007, 10:36 »

but the chainsaw is simply so much stronger than dual knives could be,

First, you can find second knife on dlvl2, chainsaw - dlvl4 or more.
Second, Brute.
With Brute*3, knife deals 10-15 damage, and dual deals 20-30, 25 at average.
Chainsaw deals 13-33 damage, 23 at average.
Knives are better, isn't it?
Third, Berserker.
Chance of berserking must calculate for each knife separately, and this chance must be greater than for CS.
Logged
Badges [B/S/G/P/D]
16/12/5/1/0

Kornel Kisielewicz

  • God Hand
  • Apostle
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4562
    • View Profile
    • http://chaosforge.org/
Re: Dual weild
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2007, 10:38 »

Hmm how about changing the Juggler trait. Instead of allowing to insta-swap it allows to do melee attacks automatically with a melee weapon wielded in the prepared slot? (without switching, and without time penalty)
Logged
at your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz

Potman

  • Major
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Re: Dual weild
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2007, 11:24 »

Hmm how about changing the Juggler trait. Instead of allowing to insta-swap it allows to do melee attacks automatically with a melee weapon wielded in the prepared slot? (without switching, and without time penalty)

Seconded. Do it, now.
Logged

Kornel Kisielewicz

  • God Hand
  • Apostle
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4562
    • View Profile
    • http://chaosforge.org/
Re: Dual weild
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2007, 12:01 »

Can't :(. DoomRL's source is on the PC that broke, so I'll have to wait till it comes back from fixing -_-
Logged
at your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz

DaEezT

  • Greater Elder
  • Colonel
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
    • View Profile
Re: Dual weild
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2007, 12:12 »

Hmm how about changing the Juggler trait. Instead of allowing to insta-swap it allows to do melee attacks automatically with a melee weapon wielded in the prepared slot? (without switching, and without time penalty)
I'd love you forever :D

but the chainsaw is simply so much stronger than dual knives could be,

First, you can find second knife on dlvl2, chainsaw - dlvl4 or more.
Second, Brute.
With Brute*3, knife deals 10-15 damage, and dual deals 20-30, 25 at average.
Chainsaw deals 13-33 damage, 23 at average.
Knives are better, isn't it?
Third, Berserker.
Chance of berserking must calculate for each knife separately, and this chance must be greater than for CS.

Finding a second knife (in case of AoB) before the chainsaw is up to luck and the RNG. I've played enough games without finding one prior to the court that I wouldn't count on it.

But let's assume you always find one on level 2:
1) Damage reduction from armor is applied to every attack separately, that means that dual knives will break even with the chainsaw against enemies with 2 armor and fall behind after that.
2) You assume that dual wielding does not have any penalties. If you take Dualgunner(1) as a reference you'd have to expect an attack time of 140%. which means that by the time a dual knife user attacks 10 times, dealing an average total of 250 in your case, the chainsaw user will have attacked 14 times, which means an average total of 322. Both numbers assume enemies with 0 armor.

And even if the Dualknife trait would grand you 100% attack speed at level 1 you'd still have to spent 4 skills (3*Brute + Dualknife) to end up with only 2 more damage on average and only against enemies with 0 armor. It would be much more efficient to take Berserk as your fourth skill, instead of Dualknife, since you're probably already at/past the chained court at clvl 4.

But to be fair, the point about the Berserking trigger is true.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 12:15 by DaEezT »
Logged
"Morality is merely a convention with which men mutually agree to delude themselves. There are no moral facts, just preferences, and one is no better than any other."

Potman

  • Major
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Re: Dual weild
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2007, 12:56 »

While we're on the subject, this would be a good place to again bring out my very first suggestion on these forums: Disable ranged attacks on melee. Because what use is knife-juggling or dual-knifing or bayoneting if you could just blast the enemy with plasma instead?

At the very least there could be a massive accuracy penalty against monsters in your reach. 50% or sumthin'.
Logged

DaEezT

  • Greater Elder
  • Colonel
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565
    • View Profile
Re: Dual weild
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2007, 13:14 »

While we're on the subject, this would be a good place to again bring out my very first suggestion on these forums: Disable ranged attacks on melee. Because what use is knife-juggling or dual-knifing or bayoneting if you could just blast the enemy with plasma instead?

At the very least there could be a massive accuracy penalty against monsters in your reach. 50% or sumthin'.

Seconded.
Logged
"Morality is merely a convention with which men mutually agree to delude themselves. There are no moral facts, just preferences, and one is no better than any other."

Const

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Re: Dual weild
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2007, 03:25 »

Quote
Disable ranged attacks on melee. Because what use is knife-juggling or dual-knifing or bayoneting if you could just blast the enemy with plasma instead?

Disagree. In original, ranged attacks isn't disabled; and the game must be passable for non-melee character - Doom isn't a game about melee.
Logged
Badges [B/S/G/P/D]
16/12/5/1/0

Potman

  • Major
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Re: Dual weild
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2007, 05:28 »

Then allow Arachnotrons and Former Commandos to fry you with plasma on melee. Or make close combat in general stronger.
Logged

DisaffectedBeta

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 89
    • View Profile
Re: Dual wield
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2007, 11:06 »

The dual knives thing could be something where you actually hit with one in the direction you were aiming, and then the second knife seeks out another target if the first one was killed.  I guess if you're not doing a lot of damage this is sorta wasted, but it might help if you're surrounded.  Sorry if someone already mentioned that.  You could get bonuses to movement and/or dodge since you're relatively unencumbered, maybe.  Or it might be helpful if the whole knife throwing thing is made, just so you have an instant swap spare on hand if you can't use ranged weapons.

So far the pistol and the knife seem like the only dual wields that make any practical sense.  Doom was all about blood and guts, but it took great pains not to go too nuts on the human ability to hold a weapon and aim worth a damn. 
Logged

Kornel Kisielewicz

  • God Hand
  • Apostle
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4562
    • View Profile
    • http://chaosforge.org/
Re: Dual weild
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2007, 17:23 »

Implemented the new Juggler :)
Logged
at your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All