DRL > Discussion

Fixed SoaB will be broken as hell.

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Zeb:
You're right, I messed up the chaingun damage. I was indeed factoring in that bullets have a minimum damage of 1, however I was using the damage spread 1-1-1-1-2-3 which would be for level 3 armor, rather than 1-1-1-2-3-4 which would be for level 2 armor. With level 2 armor, the average damage per spray would then be 10 damage, not 7.5. [(12/6)*5=10]. I have updated my original post to reflect this. My plasma math was correct though, as the spread would be 1-1-1-2-3-4-5-6, and thus [(23/8)*8=23].

I still maintain that the increases are incredibly drastic, with nearly double damage for both weapons against unarmored foes and over 200% damage against armored foes, and thus this needs to be looked into.

(Note that if damage can be reduced to zero then the average damages should reduced by 2 each thus making SoaB's effect more dramatic. However, I remember reading somewhere that they could only be reduced to 1)

Kornel Kisielewicz:
Please bear in mind that

1) Pistols/AoMr have been upped -- you can now dualwield modded weapons
2) Shotguns have been upped -- especialy double now deals *3 damage in the beta (with a shorter range though)

So strengthening chain weapons won't be that bad.

Zeb:
DS deals three times as much damage? Niiiice.

Will you be raising monster spawns or HP to make up for the changes in everything, or will you just let the game be easier?

In other news, I just noticed that my topic title has not one but two unintentional puns in it. That's not something that happens every day. :-P

packrat:
I am not sure how attack speed is calculated, and if Dual Wielding is worth it.

I won AoMR win Level 2 Finesse, Level 3 Son of a Gun, and a advanced pistol (2d10) [2/17] (D3R3S1M3). Does that mean that I had 100 / (100-20-60-10) = 10 shots per turn? Would any dual wielding be better than that?

BDR:
Dual-wielding is better for certain than single-wield; the only real questions are "can you get enough mods for two pistols?", "can you snap up enough levels for SoG, Finesse, Whizkid, and finally Dualgunner?", and "do you really want to bother seeing as one is plenty awesome on its own?"

Also, way attack speed is calculated is like this:

1 turn = 100 energy, all player actions before modifiers are taken into account = 10 turns or 1000 energy (this goes for everything, not just attacks).
Speed mod = -100 energy (10% of 1000)
Son of a Gun = -200 energy (20% of 1000)
Finesse = -100 energy (10% of 1000)

So for a guy with 3 SoG, 2 Fin, and 1 speed mod on his pistol, he shoots with a cost of (1000-(3*200)-(2*100)-100) or 100 energy, which is the lowest possible amount of energy any action can take.  If this person added another speed mod to his gun, it wouldn't have any effect at all, and they're already shooting once every turn.  So, yes, where most would only get 1 shot, you will get 10.  Of course, in practice you probably won't actually take 10 shots in that timespan since the nasties *will* get a chance to act in that time (which means if you, like me, use aggressive tactics for the +tohit and/or the +todam boost, you'll likely get smacked in the face by whatever gets thrown), and you'll really want to either try to dodge or heal instead of shoot.  Also, a person using Dualgunner 1 will have to use two speed mods instead of one to achieve an energy of 100, otherwise they will have to live with an energy of 140 (translating to about 7 shots in a normal turn).

Also also, the bit about this being Intuition 3 on crack is rubbish even with this being a significant balance change.  Back before the nerfs, Intuition 3 games, when properly managed, allowed players to kill pretty much every single enemy on the level without ever once getting into range of attack, obliviating the need for medkits and armor alike.  All you really needed in an Int 3 game was rockets for blowing holes in the walls, lots of 10mm ammunition, and a good amount of caution and foresight, and the only way it could have been made any better would have been magic map style revealing of the level structure and items.  Now, it's useful, but it's not nearly as easy to abuse.  SoB 3 just means that you spend less time fighting the hellspawn head-on; you still have to give the enemy the chance to attack and kill, which you never had to do with Int 3.

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