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Author Topic: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!  (Read 11390 times)

Madrik Rimesorrow

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Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« on: January 05, 2008, 09:58 »

Aargh!! Matey! How be a roguelike based on thar Pirates of the Caribbean, aye? That be playing to jolly sea music and a mug of grog!

But seriously, couldn't this be considered? You get to choose what type of sailor you start off as : High strength, High intelligence, High dex, high charisma (Cap'n sparrow, with the slurred speech and all, yes?). Then along the way, you decide whether to earn your own ship or  "borrow" one. There could be a main driving quest which you could choose to follow or commandeer other ships as you see fit.

Seems a worthy idea, eh?

"Aar, me hearty! Where's me eye-patch?"
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Igor Savin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2008, 11:33 »

If you design and write it, I code it. Except for PotC being not-so-great a source; make it generic pirate stuff and we have a deal.

Nothing epic, though. 7DRL-style would be appreciated.
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Madrik Rimesorrow

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2008, 23:39 »

That was just an idea. I don't know anything apart from the low basics of Python.
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Igor Savin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2008, 03:27 »

...but perhaps you know the low basics of MS-Word\OpenOffice-Writer?

Once again:
Your concept and writing (inside text), and I do all the coding.
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Karry

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2008, 07:19 »

Geez, if all coders were like you...although i have a concept that would require about two years of dedicated work, not a concept of a roguelike. :P
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Igor Savin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2008, 07:39 »

\Although i have a concept that would require about two years of dedicated work\

Could you give a brief overview?

\not a concept of a roguelike\

As in "different stuff accented" or as in "technically inadequate"?
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Rola

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2008, 18:03 »

Except for PotC being not-so-great a source; make it generic pirate stuff...
Aye, well said, Igor. Never liked the PotC - it always appealed to me as a lampoon version of a pirate movie. For a good example I'd propose the "Cutthroat Island".

Oh, and for the intro music for the game we could have this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwVOZDqZYZk
The movie sucked beyond comprehension, but I love this little clip. Few forum members may recognize it, despite never seeing the movie (it was the intro for a certain nautical TV programme... ;) )


Too bad you want this as 7DRL, we could use a "Pirates!" port to roguelike... always liked the games developed by Akella...
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Igor Savin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2008, 18:06 »

\Too bad you want this as 7DRL, we could use a "Pirates!" port to roguelike\

Hey, I like your approach! That's exactly what I had in mind.

7-DRL-version is supposed to be a tech-demo of what can be done. Then everything can be expanded.

Would you consider joining the DevTeam?
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Rola

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2008, 19:26 »

Hmm... I'm tempted... but on the other hand I wouldn't be able to promise anything, as my life isn't that stable as I would like it to be. And this would force me to go through the Horatio Hornblower books again, LOL!

I could at least put you in good direction in the beginning. May of the ideas I had in mind for StarWarsRL could be used here as well, including the progressive development approach - what you said about expanding the basic game.

However do we really want to start to dabble with this? With StarWarsRL I could finally have the game I'm waiting for 15 years or so. PiratesRL would compete with current "Age of Pirates" and its previous parts - Pirates of the Carribean, Sea Dogs, another Akella game which name escapes me, and Sid Meyer's Pirates!.
I'm really trying hard to imagine ship-to-ship combat. Tactical game would require precise maneuvers to make "raking" possible, for example. How can we show ship's course in ASCII?

|   -   \   /   

this is the only way I can think of. I was wondering about the dot at the end to indicate direction of heading, but this wouldn't work.

I don't know... convince me somehow ;)
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Karry

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2008, 04:20 »

*shrugs*
If you wish...i'll just copy from the desdoc.

Real-time tactical puzzle. Single player-only.
Elements borrowed from :
   Evil Genius trap setting, characters interaction model, general appearance.
   Dungeon Keeper fantasy background, Good to be evil mindset.
   Tower Defence preparation phase, enemy wave concept.

Main Features

   Semi-random level generation.
   Limited environment modifications.
   Creatures visual upgrading.
   Accented planning, not execution speed.
   Advanced scripting and AI.
   De-centralised treasure concept.
   Unique feeling of fantasy/gothic fantasy adventure.
   Optional gore.
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Igor Savin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2008, 09:42 »

To Rola:

\I wouldn't be able to promise anything, as my life isn't that stable as I would like it to be\

Life is never about promises. And I would choose erratic input over no input at all - any day.

\And this would force me to go through the Horatio Hornblower books again, LOL!\

Will you regret this?

\May of the ideas I had in mind for StarWarsRL could be used here as well, including the progressive development approach - what you said about expanding the basic game\

Maybe. Maybe not. I have barebone made-to-be-epic pseudo-roguelike at my hands, which I can develop in any direction now. It mgiht be Pirates! It might be Dynasty Warriors. It might be Master of Magic. Beauty of the concept is that all of those parts are seamless and benefit from development of each other. But the (relative) shortcoming is, they all have to reuse the same basical system to be compatible and reasonable.

\With StarWarsRL I could finally have the game I'm waiting for 15 years or so\

I won't be doing any sci-fi for at least few years. And Kornel is the best man for the job anyway .

\another Akella game which name escapes me\

You mean "Captain Blood"?

\I'm really trying hard to imagine ship-to-ship combat\

Kornel already proved with DoomRL that literal gameplay translation is unneeded. One shouldn't think how "similar" gameplay can be achieved with ASCII. One should think how the basic idea can be implemented using ASCII methods.

My idea of a sea-combat was something like this: there's 20x20 board on which ships are positioned. You can either move, or shoot; at everyone within range, but there's a twist - your ship takes some time to aim; this time is reduced by your maneuverability, and increased by enemy manev*speed. Also, every time targetted ship moves, shooting one receives ToHit penalty. Wind can be added to the calculations... (speed bonus when blowing perpendicularly to your enemy).

My main winning point is that I'm not going to abandon the project anytime in the next 5-10 years (-: Pirate part was planned from the very beginning, it's just that I haven't yet decided upon when I'm starting doing it.
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Igor Savin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2008, 09:44 »

To Karry:

Pretty heavy stuff you have in there :). Do you actually plan doing it?
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2008, 11:54 »

Sea combat could be done by extending the Battleships pen and paper game :P
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Igor Savin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2008, 13:42 »

It'd be difficult to take the rest of te game seriously then (-:
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2008, 20:02 »

You'd be surprised Igor, how simple mechanics can be made into really fun and complex ones. The idea is to allow oneself a layer of abstraction, and not go for realism all the way. Take Pipe Dreams for an example -- it has nothing to do with realism except the water flowing, but it's fun as hell. Or any better minigames in older games -- they (if well designed) could be tons of fun, without realism. The point here is to make them NOT BORING. Realism is a secondary need.
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Karry

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2008, 23:41 »

Quote
Pretty heavy stuff you have in there :). Do you actually plan doing it?
Seems pretty unrealistic at the moment. Most free coders are either completely useless, or they want to join to the already full and active team.
It seems my best bet is also to join some big team, make one or two projects, and then plug my idea to the group.
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torch

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2008, 05:35 »

You'd be surprised Igor, how simple mechanics can be made into really fun and complex ones. The idea is to allow oneself a layer of abstraction, and not go for realism all the way. Take Pipe Dreams for an example -- it has nothing to do with realism except the water flowing, but it's fun as hell. Or any better minigames in older games -- they (if well designed) could be tons of fun, without realism. The point here is to make them NOT BORING. Realism is a secondary need.

It's an interesting idea.  The enemy boat(s) would be moving so a hit may not equal a hit next turn, but subsequent hits may give the player enough analysis to predict where the enemy is sailing to and get a number of good hits in. 
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Rola

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2008, 21:44 »

\Life is never about promises. And I would choose erratic input over no input at all - any day.\
Point taken. In that case I'll try to write down my ideas and maybe even provide some reference materials about pirate stuff ;) Do you want to discuss it point-by-point here on the forum or to get it in one file via e-mail?

\You mean "Captain Blood"?\

No, it turns out I was actually thinking about Sea Legends. I just mixed up two Russian developers (Nival with Akella).
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Igor Savin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2008, 08:31 »

\Or any better minigames in older games -- they (if well designed) could be tons of fun, without realism. The point here is to make them NOT BORING\

Point here is to make it not repetitive; and gameplay should be tweakable with skills\upgrades\ship types. There's a lot to consider...
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Igor Savin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2008, 08:50 »

\The enemy boat(s) would be moving so a hit may not equal a hit next turn, but subsequent hits may give the player enough analysis to predict where the enemy is sailing to and get a number of good hits in\

Idea would require some additional tuning. 1/8 chance to guess where enemy is moving to? Oh, please...

\Point taken. In that case I'll try to write down my ideas and maybe even provide some reference materials about pirate stuff ;)\

Great.

\Do you want to discuss it point-by-point here on the forum or to get it in one file via e-mail?\

Kornel will put us to eternal damnation of we abuse his forum :).

We can use Gna! mailing list for discussion:
https://gna.org/mail/?group=bal
(ignore their unsigned certificate; they are self-issuing it to get https working)
since they provide no forum.
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torch

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2008, 02:23 »

\The enemy boat(s) would be moving so a hit may not equal a hit next turn, but subsequent hits may give the player enough analysis to predict where the enemy is sailing to and get a number of good hits in\

Idea would require some additional tuning. 1/8 chance to guess where enemy is moving to? Oh, please...

Yeah, I should have thought a bit harder about that one! 

I figured the boat would be bigger than one tile, but even so I don't think that makes my idea valid.  Although wind strength and direction might be a factor. 
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Igor Savin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2008, 12:57 »

\Yeah, I should have thought a bit harder about that one!\

Fear not, it looks like I've found a solution already, which validates your solution absolutely. Now that the Valkyrion stage 1 was completed successfully, I'm starting a test module, which will demonstrate possible naval combat gameplay.

Rola, are you there?..
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Rola

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2008, 02:08 »

I'm still here, Igor. Pardon me for being away, but I was busy with some trivial stuff, like exams ;P

I'm writing a document for you, because I checked your link and disliked this idea. I'll send it to you via e-mail when the first revision will be ready.

I doubt Kornel will be against hijacking a single thread on his forum.

And mods could separate our pirate-related ideas from Karry's project, please (make a separate thread for him).
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Daqin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2008, 03:40 »

I could at least put you in good direction in the beginning. May of the ideas I had in mind for StarWarsRL could be used here as well, including the progressive development approach - what you said about expanding the basic game.

However do we really want to start to dabble with this? With StarWarsRL I could finally have the game I'm waiting for 15 years or so.

If StarWars roguelike is going to start you got my support. I am long faith fan of SW and have other exp, so I would give my hand, and i'd be GLAD to do it. I was waiting many years for game like this also.

Quote from: Igor Savin
\With StarWarsRL I could finally have the game I'm waiting for 15 years or so\

I won't be doing any sci-fi for at least few years. And Kornel is the best man for the job anyway .

I'd say SW is fantasy rather than SF..

You'd be surprised Igor, how simple mechanics can be made into really fun and complex ones. The idea is to allow oneself a layer of abstraction, and not go for realism all the way. Take Pipe Dreams for an example -- it has nothing to do with realism except the water flowing, but it's fun as hell. Or any better minigames in older games -- they (if well designed) could be tons of fun, without realism. The point here is to make them NOT BORING. Realism is a secondary need.

I second that. Sometimes very simple mechanics can give a lot and make things very playable. The acompanying outlook and other things make up whole atmosphere without being spoiled by too much sophistry, and number of simple things makes it up for complexity.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 03:51 by Daqin »
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Igor Savin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2008, 09:55 »

\I'm still here, Igor. Pardon me for being away, but I was busy with some trivial stuff, like exams ;P\

I'm doing mine just as well :-P. It was merely a question.

\I'm writing a document for you\

OK.

\I doubt Kornel will be against hijacking a single thread on his forum\

Problem is, if discussion becomes active enough, it will become a hijack of "Recent posts" feed, which is undesirable.

\And mods could separate our pirate-related ideas from Karry's project, please\

We can create a new one ourselves, as soon as we get started.


\If StarWars roguelike is going to start you got my support. I am long faith fan of SW and have other exp, so I would give my hand, and i'd be GLAD to do it. I was waiting many years for game like this also\

Hmm. If Kornel won't start it this year, I *might* give it a try, considering how popular this demand is. Although you'll all be gathering petitions begging me to stop after you see results :-P

\I'd say SW is fantasy rather than SF..\

I'd say it's western rather than fantasy :-P

\I second that. Sometimes very simple mechanics can give a lot and make things very playable. The acompanying outlook and other things make up whole atmosphere without being spoiled by too much sophistry, and number of simple things makes it up for complexity\

In the end of January (after I hold the dreaded History of Russian Language exam in Uni and present Part I of my Test Project at Job) Chaosforge frequenters will be granted an exceptional honour of beholding the SeaBattleRL conceptual demo, which after Rola's approval might become the integral part of BaL-Sea.
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Daqin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2008, 10:11 »

\If StarWars roguelike is going to start you got my support. I am long faith fan of SW and have other exp, so I would give my hand, and i'd be GLAD to do it. I was waiting many years for game like this also\

Hmm. If Kornel won't start it this year, I *might* give it a try, considering how popular this demand is. Although you'll all be gathering petitions begging me to stop after you see results :-P

That's happy news. Let know when to start gathering materials.

Quote
\I'd say SW is fantasy rather than SF..\

I'd say it's western rather than fantasy :-P

Knights, lightsabers, the Force.. on the other hand Han Solo, blasters, cantina scum.. I would say it is fantasy western, or something else, heh :)
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Igor Savin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2008, 10:41 »

\Knights, lightsabers, the Force.. on the other hand Han Solo, blasters, cantina scum.. I would say it is fantasy western, or something else, heh :)\

I prefer Han Solo to Jedis; if I ever start the project, it will be primarily centered on cantina scum.
Yep, I'll issue material request when it becomes relevant :).
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Daqin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2008, 11:07 »

\Knights, lightsabers, the Force.. on the other hand Han Solo, blasters, cantina scum.. I would say it is fantasy western, or something else, heh :)\

I prefer Han Solo to Jedis; if I ever start the project, it will be primarily centered on cantina scum.
Yep, I'll issue material request when it becomes relevant :).

In the past I was definitely more affected by Force and Jedi Knights (Mmmm.. I may still be). Now, however, Jedi and Force got deformed -in my point of view- by lots of games, new movies, comics, books etc. So I am more balanced now. And I always liked smuggler/scoundrel and mercenary thing. I somehow feel at home in this cantina scenes (music, glances from here and there, etc). So game smuggler/scoundrel oriented (bounty hunters, gangsters and other) would be just right (except there is still need for the Force, however just like in old movies it should be something like "ancient religion, simple luck -bunch of tricks and nonsenses" generally something very subtle and mystical, a legend maybe)
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Rola

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2008, 10:50 »

I prefer Han Solo to Jedis; if I ever start the project, it will be primarily centered on cantina scum.
* Igor receives +5 influence bonus with Rola
Too bad we're the minority...
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Igor Savin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2008, 11:06 »

\however just like in old movies it should be something like "ancient religion, simple luck -bunch of tricks and nonsenses" generally something very subtle and mystical, a legend maybe)\

Yeah, that one could work.

\* Igor receives +5 influence bonus with Rola\

ROFL

\Too bad we're the minority...\

Always outnumbered, never outgunned. As soon as I get out of vapour-bane, we'll show 'em ;).
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Dakin

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Re: Shiver me timbers, landlubber!!
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2008, 08:54 »

I wonder how things go with sea battle roguelike or about thoughts on SW RL again.
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