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Author Topic: Survivors  (Read 6378 times)

ParaSait

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Survivors
« on: April 25, 2008, 09:50 »

On every level that is generated, there is a chance that a "survivor" is spawned. If you find him, you can recruit him and give him some weapons/armor/items/ammo and give him orders (like "Cover me", "Clear the room","Split up(Unrecruit)","Find and eliminate" etc...). The chance that they spawn depends on the difficulty level(The harder, the less), and the dungeon level (The further, the less) but on later levels they do get stronger, though.

What's everyone's thought about this suggestion?
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Potman

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Re: Survivors
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2008, 10:43 »

Nah. It'd break the alone-against-hell feeling all Dooms should have.
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Dakin

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Re: Survivors
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2008, 11:28 »

Personally, I think it is neat idea. Meeting some surviving, worn/wounded/scared soldier or marine, that you could comfort up (and he you) and team up for cooperation would give a flavor (more hope to freaked out marine). You could meet him only once in a game, he could level up, have a name, and go with you through the hell (levels) to the very end (whatever the end..). That would of course change 'hopelessness' of lone marine vs demons, as you will not be the only survivor. On the other hand, the guy could lose his mind any moment (more likely deeper in dungeon) and become 'former' fellow, cracking up at most sh*tty moment (when he is needed the most), turning up all the levels and gear he got with you against you..
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Conker

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Re: Survivors
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2008, 12:03 »

Perhaps the stronger marines would require you giving them a small/large medpack to recruit them.
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Titt

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Re: Survivors
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2008, 12:15 »

some surviving, worn/wounded/scared soldier or marine, that you could comfort up (and he you)


Somehow this idea makes me think of this. Uh oh!
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Papachabre

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Re: Survivors
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2008, 08:39 »

I have mixed feelings about this.  On the one hand I need all the help I can get because I suck at this game, and on the other hand I agree with Potman that you should be alone against hell.  It would take away from the badassitude of your character if you weren't the only survivor.  Plus I hated having a pet in Nethack, so I'm sure I'd hate having a survivor follow me around in DoomRL.
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Norrock

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Re: Survivors
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2008, 14:28 »

Make it so that you can turn survivors on or off in the .ini, then I'd love for this to be implemented.
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ParaSait

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Re: Survivors
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2008, 10:04 »

Make it so that you can turn survivors on or off in the .ini, then I'd love for this to be implemented.

Good idea. Perhaps also say it in the mortem.
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Jorge Alonso

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Re: Survivors
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2008, 10:19 »

If I see a survivor, I shoot him: He could become a zombie! Trust no one! ;-)
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Chamber

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Re: Survivors
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2008, 13:34 »

I like the idea of eventually having a squad of rescued marines, each levelled up and armed so as to help out as much as possible.  But, awesome factor aside, I have problems with this idea.

Firstly is balance.  Things are balanced as they are now.  If the survivors can be roughly comparable in power to the player, then the game will become too easy.  If they're not, they have no purpose to begin with.  Does anyone remember those customised bots in Quake, the ones you could give orders to?  They were fun to have around, but made the single player game easier than it already was, and encouraged the player to sit back and watch the bots shoot stuff.  The same thing will happen here. 

Secondly, and most importantly, is the quality of teammates in roguelikes in general.  Despite blurb of 'innovative AI procedures', 'form a bond with your allies' and 'reacts to your actions and learns from them', teammates in roguelikes generally end up with me screaming at them to attack the damned goblins instead of running in circles.  They need constant babysitting, are ineffective, and in almost all cases have code put in to make them betray you at the slightest provocation.  I tend to shoot so-called friends in the head if doing so won't hurt my alignment.  (BTW, thank you Kornel for not putting in alignment systems.)  Now imagine this in context of a game where marines can use rocket launchers, blow holes in walls, traipse across lava, and fire shotguns in crowded areas.  Do you really want these prodigies following you?
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Kornel Kisielewicz

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Re: Survivors
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2008, 04:45 »

I'm all against survivors -- Doom is a game pitting the lone marine against the hordes of hell, and so it should stay. I might however leave the code for that in the API in case someone would like to do a Team Mod.
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Re: Survivors
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2008, 02:55 »

I agree with Chamber. Even in commercial games, allies seldom have an AI good enough to make it feel like "teamplay".

Sure, it looks entertaining on the paper, but once implemented, you'll probably have several problems : trying not to shoot him when he stands between you and the enemies, stopping him from firing randomly at a group of barons of hell, making him avoid acid/lava when you want while still being allowed to make him cross an acid pool, preventing him from wasting ammo/medkits/phase devices (do not fire your plasma rifle at this former human), not having him get lost around each corner and so on...

Moreover, it will probably slow down the game a lot, because you'll have to manage him, to give him orders under the threat that if you don't do it well, he will fire a rocket where he should not have.

It's definitiely not worth the coding effort.

(sorry if my english isn't perfect)
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ParaSait

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Re: Survivors
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2008, 12:52 »

Yeah maybe you're right. Oh well, it was only a wild suggestion. =)
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Sachiko

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Re: Survivors
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2008, 09:25 »

Plus, in Doom, you don't need help to kick demonic ass. Only BIIIIIIG guns!
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Dawgas

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Re: Survivors
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2008, 23:41 »

Are you guys mad? This would be a great idea!

Shit, maybe we could even have the TOTALLY AWESOME MECHANIC OF "party members take a part of future gained XP!"

or hell, even "LOL I'LL TAKE THAT FROM YOU, MAGGOT"

MAYBE EVEN "LOL FUCK YOU I'MMA BACKSTABBING YOU SO YOU CANT UNLOCK THAT NICE THING YOU WANT"

also, he should have a fixed name. I say Kornel should be the name ;)
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